WEBVTT - The Confession 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.960 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.360 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.040 It was absolutely shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.920 actually really patent blood on his clothing the day after 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:15.920 the alleged a toime on a shallow mud bank and 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:16.840 it fits Roy River. 0:00:16.960 --> 0:00:17.440 Basically. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.119 I think most of the people are used to me, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:20.480 there are good people. 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.160 I think a really important question we need to ask 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.239 is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.800 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.320 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.320 our justice system and ask who are the victims. 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:38.000 I'm Amy Maguire. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.560 And Don Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:42.960 Prisoner Support Service. 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:47.720 Our producer is Paul Watts. Music by Clint Curtis and 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.680 produced in collaboration with the Brisbane Indigenous Media Association and 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:57.120 a warning. This series contains the names of deceased peoples 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:00.880 and has distressing content that might upset come with nerve. 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.000 Over the past two weeks, we've told you a little 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.640 bit about the strange circumstances surrounding the murder of an 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.399 Aboriginal woman named Linda, found on the banks of the 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.640 Fitzroy River in nineteen ninety one. We told you how 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.120 we became interested in this case. We began to have 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.839 doubts about the guilt of the man who was convicted 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.080 of rape and murder over Linda's death the following year. 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.880 That man's name is Kevin Henry, and they also call 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.760 him Curdin last week, we told you a bit about 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:37.240 Linda's last hours, the events that led to the savage 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:40.559 assault inflicted on her body by three women who would 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.840 later be convicted of grievous bodily harm. But at this point, 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:46.959 if you were just joining us, we ask you to 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:51.400 go back and listen to the two previous episodes. There's 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.800 a lot of information in those episodes that you might 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.760 need to know in order to understand this one. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.800 Now. We have told you previously that there was no 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.040 linking Kevin to Linda's death. We also told you we 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.400 had doubts that it was possible for him to have 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.880 put her body in the river where her official cause 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.560 of death was drowning. With this in mind, we also 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.200 told you that there was one thing that implicated Kevin 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:20.680 in Linda's death. That was his confession. Kevin's been in 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.120 jail for twenty five years already because of this confession. 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.280 There's no other evidence linking him to Linda's death. In 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.600 this episode, you're going to hear the details of that confession, 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.160 but first we want to tell you a few details, 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.440 details that you may not know. Now. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.960 When I hear someone has confessed to a crime, I 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.240 don't know about you, but I immediately think it is incriminating. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.920 When I heard Kevin had given a confession to police, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.720 I couldn't help but have this reaction. You know this 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.359 is going to be very bad for Kevin. I immediately think, well, 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.680 there is no way someone would confess to a crime 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.120 if they didn't do it, what would be the point. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:04.040 But why did I immediately jump to this conclusion. In Australia, 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.000 wrongful convictions are rare. We do have high profile cases 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.240 like Andrew Mullard in Perth and also obviously the case 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.720 of Lindy Chamberlain. So because this is rare in our 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.400 own country, there's very limited research about wrongful convictions and 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.679 what actually leads to innocent people being locked up. It's 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:23.919 been found that one in four people in America who 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.760 have been exonerated by DNA evidence actually gave a false confession. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:31.279 So it's obvious that false confessions are very common overseas. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.600 You have to think maybe they happen just as often 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.480 over here in Australia as well. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.000 As a legal advocate, I have a very different reaction 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.920 when I hear the word confession. I've been working with 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.240 clients have been wrongfully convicted in the US, the Middle East, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:51.640 and Europe through prison and justice systems for a long time. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.120 Now I know the signs, what to look for and 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.440 when someone is giving a false confession. I know this 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.560 because of the research that's already being done based on 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.840 actual cases where US prisoners have been forced to confess. 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.400 One of the leading experts in the United States on 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:14.040 wrongful convictions is Brandon L. Garrett. He's a Distinguished Professor 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.560 of Law at the University of Virginia. He looked into 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:21.840 cases where innocent people have been exonerated by DNA on 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:28.159 forensics and eyewitnesses, but critically on false confessions. He's even 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.760 written a book about it. It's called Convicting the Innocent, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:37.840 Where criminal Prosecutions Go Wrong. While we were researching Kevin's case, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:42.640 we contacted Professor Garrett. Professor Garrett responded and gave us 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:47.359 an example of what he calls confession contamination, using the 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:51.360 case of Frank Stirling when nineteen ninety one, the same 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.559 year Linda died confess to the killing of an elderly woman. 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.120 In nineteen ninety one, Frank Sterling confessed to the nineteen 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.400 eighty eight killing of an elderly woman. Sterling waived his 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.719 Miranda rights and was interrogated without a. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.000 Lawyer for twelve hours. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.719 Only twenty minutes at the end of the interrogation was videotaped, 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.200 and it shows him confessing in apparent detail, giving key 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.360 facts in the case, the location of the murder, the 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.560 color of the victim's jacket and clothing, and the use 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.400 of a bb gun. DNA evidence proved that Frank Sterling 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:27.839 was innocent and indicated the guilt of another man. Frank 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.320 Sterling served almost nineteen years for a crime he didn't commit. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.440 Sterling has explained how he was worn down during the 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:37.760 interrogation and ultimately decided to repeat the account that the 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:41.240 police gave him. In sixteen percent of the first two 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.400 hundred and fifty DNA exonerations, innocent defendants falsely confessed. 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:47.640 Frank Sterling was not alone. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.719 All but two of forty DNAs honorees who falsely confessed 0:05:52.040 --> 0:05:56.479 were said to have confessed in detail. Their confessions were contaminated. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.440 Confession contamination means that non public feed as specific facts 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:04.240 about how the crime was committed. I disclosed to a 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.159 suspect during an interrogation. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.559 Now keep Frank's case in mind, because we have gone 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.839 through Kevin's confession and we think there are some startling 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.680 conclusions that can be drawn. But first of all, let's 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.839 take you back to the day Kevin would have confessed. 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:24.640 It was the afternoon of the fifth. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.320 Of September ninety ninety one. Now, remember Linda's body was 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.000 found on the first of September, and she died the 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:33.960 night before on the thirty first of August, so this 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.279 was all in the same week. In fact, it was 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:38.360 only four days after Linda was found. 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.279 Now, Kevin had already been thrown in the watchhouse before 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.240 picked up the next day on the first for public drunkenness. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.320 On the fifth, he was walking along the rock Hampden 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.720 Street with a friend. He was again picked up by 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.880 the police, but this time he wasn't drunk. The police 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.160 officers had obviously picked him up for some other reason. 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:05.120 Now it was. 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:07.640 Two twenty one PM by this point, and Kevin was 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.800 seated in a room at Rockampden Police Station. In attendance 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:16.000 were the two arresting officers, Senior Constable Leslie Girk and 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.720 Senior Constable Robert Hunt. Now, Hunt was listening while Girk 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.200 was leading the interview. We don't have the recording of 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.320 that confession, but we do have the transcript, and for 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.280 the purposes of this podcast, we're as citing the transcript 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.160 to make it easier to understand. Martin will play the 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.160 voice of Senior Constable Girk, and I'll occasionally read out 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:39.080 the lines of Senior Constable Hunt. We have also enlisted 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.840 the help of Elijah Blair, a young Aboriginal radio announcer 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.880 based at the Murray Radio station for US in Rockhampton, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.360 to play the part of the twenty two year old 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:49.160 Kevin Henry. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.520 Now, Kevin's confession was two and a half hours long. 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:55.600 We can't read out the whole thing, but we've picked 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.120 out the excerpts we can play on air. Now, Kevin 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.280 had already given us statement to police. He'd given it 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.320 to them on the Monday, they set him down and 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.040 read it out again. That statement details the assault on 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.320 Linda with a great level of accuracy. We know this 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.840 because it's corroborated by other witness's statements on the night 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.040 and by the forensic examination of her body. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:24.320 In that original statement, Kevin claims that after Linda was assaulted, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.280 he went to the Crown Hotel with the others at Tanuba, 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.520 where they all put in for alcohol purchased by Susan Aubrey, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.280 before going back to Tanuba a half an hour later. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.560 It was there that Linda was gone. Now we're going 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.640 to read out Kevin's interview to police on the fifth 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.800 of September nineteen ninety one, which would end up implicating 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.960 him in Linda's death. It starts with the police asking 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.719 Kevin if there is anything he wanted to change. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:49.120 Again. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.400 Here is Martin as Senior Constable, Leslie Girk and Elijah 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.320 as Kevin. Now again or warning to our listeners that 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.360 this next part of the podcast contains some disturbing content. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.680 The time now is two twenty one PM. Do you 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:09.000 agree with that time? Kevin? 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:09.680 Yes? 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.640 Kevin. My questions to you today and your answers will 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.920 be recorded on this tape recorder in front of us. 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:17.960 Do you understand that? 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:18.960 Yes. 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.160 At the end of the interview, you'll be given a 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.360 cassette tape of our conversations. Do you understand that? 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:25.200 Yes? 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.640 Okay. I now ask each person present to say their 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:34.600 full name. My full name is Leslie John Girk Plain 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:39.200 closed Senior Constable of Police attached to the Rockampton CIB. 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.800 My registered number is five nine three seven. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.880 My full name is Robert John Hunt. 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.280 I'm a detective Senior Constable of Police presently stationed at 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:51.240 Rapempton CIB. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.240 My registered number is six one five seven. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:01.520 Kevin, is there any person present who hasn't identified themselves? No, Kevin, 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:04.360 for the record, could you please state your full name 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:05.600 and correct. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.559 Name, Kevin Alan Henry. 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.959 Are you known by any other name? Kevin Curtain with 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.240 the key and your date and place of birth. 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.160 The first of the third sixty nine. 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.800 Where were you born, Kevin, Rockhampton. Are you currently employed? 0:10:26.360 --> 0:10:27.440 Yeah? 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.000 Whereabouts you working? 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:31.719 No? I'm on unemployment benefit. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:37.600 Unemployment benefits right? What grade of education did you achieve? 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:38.880 Nine? 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:40.520 And where was that? 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:42.760 Or a bender? 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.160 Can you read and write the English language? 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.119 Yeah? 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:53.720 Can you clearly understand my questions? To you today. Yeah, Kevin, 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:57.000 do you recall a short while before we commenced this interview, 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.320 I asked you if you wish to have anyone from 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.480 a legal aid present. Do you recall that? 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:02.559 Yeah? 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:05.160 And could you tell me what you said to me? 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:06.120 Yes? 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.679 When I asked you if you wanted someone from legal aid, 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:12.680 could you tell me what you said? 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.840 I want somebody here anyways from legal aid. Anyways? 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.800 When I asked you before the commencement of the interview, 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.920 you told me you didn't want anyone from legal aid. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:24.960 Do you recall that? 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:27.920 Oh? Yes, yeah? 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.720 Now do you are you saying now that you want 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.680 someone from legal aid or you don't want someone from 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:35.760 legal aid to city? 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.240 Yeah? I want someone from legal aid. 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:41.559 So you want someone from legal aid now? 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.679 Yes? Yes? Yeah, now. 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.600 Right Kevin. What I'm going to do now I'll suspend 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:54.640 the interview, yes, so you can get someone from legal aid. Okay? 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:55.720 Yes. 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:01.000 The time now is two fourteen pm. Do you agree 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:01.720 with that time? 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:04.160 Yeah? 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:08.760 I'm sorry, two nineteen pm. Do you agree with that time? 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.760 We'll now suspend the interview and I'll contact someone from 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.280 Legal Aid okay, so they can sit here with you. 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:18.000 It's two twenty four. 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.160 I'm sorry, Kevin. The time is two twenty four Yeah. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:31.520 Interview suspended at two twenty four pm. Interview resumed at 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:37.040 two twenty seven pm. Right, this interview is now resumed. 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.720 The time now is two twenty seven pm. Do you 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:47.079 agree with that time, Kevin, two twenty seven yes, Kevin. 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.440 Prior to me suspending the interview, you said that you 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.960 wanted someone from Legal Aid. Is that correct? 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:53.880 Yeah? 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.920 And then I then suspended the interview and I said 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.720 I was just going to get someone from Legal Aid, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:05.440 and you told me that you wanted to get on 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.280 with the interview and you didn't want anyone from Legal Aid. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:09.079 Is that correct? 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:09.880 Yes? 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.760 Now, do you wish to have anyone from Legal Aid 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:14.520 here or ninth? 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:15.439 No? 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.280 Well, you're happy if we continue with the interview, yes, 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:22.680 without anyone from legal Aid? 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.040 Yeah? No? Oh yes, yeah, no legal Aid here? 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.680 Right, Kevin? Did you provide a statement to police on 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:41.880 two of this month? That's on I don't know, second 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.800 of the ninth, that's correct, Yeah, that's Tuesday, wasn't it? 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:48.000 No? 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:48.920 Monday morning? 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:58.760 Monday morning, Monday morning. Did you provide a statement to police? Yeah, Kevin, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:03.040 I've got a copy of that statement with me. I'll 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.480 now read that statement to you. Okay, Yes, Do you 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.600 wish to read the statement or would you like me 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:10.240 to read it? 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:12.280 Oh, you can read it. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.960 Okay. Did you read this statement over on Monday? 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:17.960 Yes? 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:25.480 And did you then sign that statement? Yes, on Monday morning. 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:26.600 That's right. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.440 Is there anything in that statement that you wish to change? 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:33.960 No, there's nothing to change there. 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:35.760 Anything. 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:38.200 You just put it in the bottom. There. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.520 Is there anything else you'd like to add to that statement? 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.440 No, there's nothing else there. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:48.000 Well, what would you like me to put at the 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:48.600 bottom of it? 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.520 What I did? What happened? 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:53.920 Well? 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.440 Could you tell me what that was? 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.760 What happened? Well, I'm just talking about when she got 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.760 That's what I'm just talking And that is the last 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:08.400 and that's all. That's the last. That's the last page 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:08.640 for me. 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:14.360 Yeah, that's the largest page of your statement. Yeah, we'll put. 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.680 Down the bottom there that I stayed. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.360 There, You stayed where you stayed where. 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.440 Down at to Nimba. I waited till he went up 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:24.920 to the bank. 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:27.960 You waited till who went. 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:36.120 All of them, all of them, all our ulburry girls. Yeah, 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.880 and after that I pulled the that bar out of 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.760 her behind at Linda's behind and I threw it away 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.360 in the barbecue. And after that I dragged her to 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.640 root Root Valley. Then after that I had sex with 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.640 her and she was she woke up. She had sex 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:58.520 with me then she was awake to see, right. And 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.600 after that, then that I left from her and I 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.200 told her to come along with me. Then after that 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.920 I went up to ring an ambulance. But after that, 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.560 when the ambulance came, she was gone from there when 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.440 there wasn't no dragon mark there? 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.880 See when did she wake up? At what stage? Did 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:20.400 she wake up? 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:22.040 What time? Then? 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:24.360 Was she awake? 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.960 She was awake. She was awake when she got to 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.960 the Rude Valley. She was awake then, right, And we 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:38.320 had sex there, okay. And after that I left from there. 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.240 Before I ask any further questions, Kevin, I warn you 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:47.360 that you don't have to answer any more questions yes, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:54.120 or say anything yes okay, because anything you say or 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.800 any statement you give will be recorded here today and 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:03.960 may later be given in evidence. Do you understand that yes? 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.840 Do you understand you don't have to answer any more questions? 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:09.879 Yes? 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.800 Do you understand that if you do, they'll be recorded? 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:14.679 Yes? 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.200 And then they may later be told to the court. Yes, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:21.600 do you understand that? 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:22.840 Yes? 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.199 Why for what reason did you drag Linda down to 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:26.959 root Valley? 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.240 Well? I dragged her away because them girls come back down, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.480 you see, they would bash her more up, more and 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:37.240 more and more, because I know what they're like. See, 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.280 they bash, they're bashing the every other girl that's coming 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.200 out here. They get jealous of them, of the men, 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.480 all those fellows down there who root them. That's why 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:52.320 they get jealous of them, right, that's why they bash. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.080 Bash other women's up. Sometimes they bash men's up to 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.120 see which girls? Is that? All the girls? 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.920 Right? How did you drag her just. 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.680 By one arm, just by just two arms like that, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:11.000 just dragged her along? 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.040 You held her with your two arms. 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:21.080 Two arms, yeah, and dragging her by the yeah, left 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.960 arm on her back, dragging her by the left arm. 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.720 Did Linda have any blood on her from being assaulted 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:29.679 by the other girls? 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:30.600 Oh? 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.600 Yes, she had a lot of blood all on her face. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.440 And where was the blood coming from. 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.200 From her face? Her face? Noise mouth? 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:44.520 Did you have any cuts? Do you know? 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.800 I wouldn't know. I couldn't see that so much blood 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:49.840 was on her face. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.239 Hmmm, And you said before you dragged her that you 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.560 pulled the Was it a stick out of her bottom? 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.879 Babe? 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.320 What was this? There was a stick or something in 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:03.919 her bottom? 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:05.160 You said, the bar? 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:09.200 The bar? Was it stuck into her bottom? 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.400 Was it? Yes? It was stuck in her bottom. Yeah. 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.879 Because I was sitting right on the steps, I was 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:15.879 watching all the time. 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:19.880 Who stuck this bar into it? 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.440 Amy Saunders? Amy Saunders? 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:25.840 Could you describe this bar to me. 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.080 Just some? It was about that long, about a sort 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:37.600 of like a temper, sort of sort of sort of 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:42.720 like this, you know, but it's got thin here, right? 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.399 And do you know where Amy got this bar from? 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:50.840 No, I wouldn't have a clue about it. I wouldn't 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:53.359 have nothing. I wouldn't have nothing to do about that. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.280 I wouldn't even know where the bar come from. 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.280 And where did you throw the bar when you took 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:00.640 it out? 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:03.320 I threw it in the barbecue. 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.639 Did it go into the barbecue or no? 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.680 I threw it just against the barbecue on the side, right, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:16.800 But it bounced back that way, but sort of on 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:19.399 an angle sort of angle. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.040 And where did it land? Did it land anywhere near 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:24.080 the river bank? Did it? 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:25.120 No? 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:26.760 Oh? Yeah? Oh? 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:27.000 No? 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.960 It didn't land near the river bank bridge there, but 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:38.640 it was still there. Barbecue just apart just about right. 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.080 Did Linda did move it all when you pulled the 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:43.639 bar around? 0:20:44.640 --> 0:20:47.440 Yeah, she moved a bit. Yeah, she moved a bit. 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:51.639 When you were having sex with Linda. 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:54.040 No, No, I didn't have blood on me. 0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:55.879 Are you sure of that? 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.400 Yes, I'm sure. I'm positive. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:01.760 You said she kissed you all over. 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:06.320 Yeah, but there was no blood on me, you see, right, 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:08.880 there was no blood. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.679 And when you said her legs. 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:14.160 Like all her blood went all hard? 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:16.560 It was all hard, was it? 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:18.080 Yeah? It was all hard? 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.680 Okay, So that's all. 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.399 That's all I we just had sex and I just 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.399 hung up. I just wrung up the ambulance and just 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:32.120 wring them down. 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:36.520 And okay, she wasn't. 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.439 She might have because the bank's just there, you know, 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:41.360 and she might have just dragged herself. 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:44.760 Did the ambulance come down? Did they? 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.800 They came down? But then I showed them. I said, 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:53.320 she's not there now, right, And what did they? So 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.080 I went across and had a look and she and 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:57.240 she not there? 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.080 And what did they say? When they got down? 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.119 They thought I was lying. In the next morning they 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:10.760