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Speaker 1: Get a.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lola Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional oversharer.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe

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Speaker 2: it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face

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Speaker 2: our blind spots. Each week, I'll interview a different guest

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Speaker 2: about their highs as well as they're lows, all in

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Speaker 2: a bid to inspire us to fearlessly fail. Hello, not

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Speaker 2: to hype this guess up too much, although they're amazing,

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Speaker 2: so I should definitely hype them up too much. But

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Speaker 2: you know when you meet someone and they're really smart,

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Speaker 2: and they're really driven, and they're really talented, and you

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Speaker 2: get a little bit nervous and overwhelmed. Well, that was

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Speaker 2: me interviewing Sarah Wilson. What a force.

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Speaker 1: She's smart, she's talented.

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Speaker 2: She's got spark, she's got.

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Speaker 1: Passion, and is a pretty cool human too.

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Speaker 2: On top of all of that, fun fact, I went

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Speaker 2: to her apartment and her parents were visiting and they

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Speaker 2: sat with us when we did the interview, and it

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Speaker 2: just now, I just made for this.

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Speaker 1: Really cool energy.

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Speaker 2: Now, my memories of Sarah are the e Quit Sugar

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Speaker 2: days because we had the same.

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Speaker 1: Publisher for a while and so we toured our books.

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Speaker 2: And I always thought she was a bit of a legend.

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Speaker 2: But cut to more recently, she's written a book about

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Speaker 2: anxiety by polar depression, and like Matt read that book

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Speaker 2: and it had a huge impact on him. That's called

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Speaker 2: First We Make the Beast Beautiful. And then more recently

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Speaker 2: she's written about climate change. This one wild and precious

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Speaker 2: life and I just think this human being shares honestly

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Speaker 2: where she's at. And Sarah, you are an absolute legend

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Speaker 2: for jumping on this pod. You inspired me to just

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Speaker 2: live true, honest and believe in what I say and do,

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Speaker 2: and thank you so much for sharing that with me.

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Speaker 2: I can't wait to allow paths cross again. You are wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Hello Gangles, I'm just going to do a little ps

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Speaker 2: in here before we dive into this interview with Sarah Wilson.

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Speaker 1: I'm coming to you from la right now.

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Speaker 2: But this was recorded in Australia a few months before

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Speaker 2: the election that has just gone down in Australia, so you'll.

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Speaker 1: Hear Sarah talk about politics here.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to give you the heads up that

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Speaker 2: this was all recorded well in advance, and I hope

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Speaker 2: you love the chat.

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Speaker 1: She's so inspiring. She's the real deal.

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Speaker 2: She's got no filter whatsoever, and I absolutely love that

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Speaker 2: about her. So go enjoy EP with Sarah Wilson. We're

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Speaker 2: just talking star signs here with Sarah Wilson, a big

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Speaker 2: proponent of the star sign. Can I say, and I'm

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Speaker 2: just going to say straight off the bat, I'm quite

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Speaker 2: nervous to interview you. And I spoke to Lauren before,

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Speaker 2: a mutual friend of ours and manager, and she and

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Speaker 2: I said, I'm really nervous because Sarah's so smart.

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Speaker 1: And she goes, well, yeah, she is a genius. I know.

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Speaker 2: She said, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But she goes, but Ye're we're right, Ye're we right.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I've just I've done this

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Speaker 2: thing where I soak up as much information as humanly

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Speaker 2: possible and my brain, I forgot to tell you this beforehand.

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Speaker 2: My brain's a little bit of like a ping pong match.

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Speaker 2: So we might go around in a little.

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Speaker 3: Mind that I'll follow it. I can follow the dots.

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Speaker 1: Awesome.

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Speaker 2: But that's a very nice intro. Thank you, Lolla, And

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Speaker 2: please don't be nervous because we've done this before. Well,

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Speaker 2: we've known each other for quite some time. We were

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Speaker 2: just saying we've toured our books together.

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Speaker 3: I reckon it was would it have been eight years ago?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and all over Australia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was awesome.

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Speaker 2: You me and David Gillespie is chilling out the grain

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Speaker 2: roots and the.

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Speaker 3: Back of vans.

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Speaker 2: I love and I only looked at these just before

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Speaker 2: I came here this. I was like, how on earth

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Speaker 2: do I interview someone that's had such a colorful journey?

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Speaker 2: And I love what it says on your insta author, podcaster,

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Speaker 2: climate engager Foster Mam fired up and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: fight it up, sign me up for this?

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Speaker 1: Is it true?

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Speaker 2: Because I've subscribed. I'm like, I'm soaking up all the

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Speaker 2: Sarah Wilson right now, Like seriously, I'm like, wow, wasn't

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Speaker 2: I doing this earlier? Lauren gave me all these links

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Speaker 2: to just immerse myself into your world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what she sent you mate. It's so much fun.

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Speaker 2: But so I'm obviously across what happened over the last week.

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Speaker 2: I quit sugar, Yeah, and one hundred percent now stepping away, it's.

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Speaker 3: No I quit I quit sugar. It's a double negative,

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Speaker 3: which can be confusing for some people. I think it

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Speaker 3: equates too. I now eat a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Sugar, which is not true. But yeah, it's been a

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Speaker 2: protracted thing. I think you probably knew this. I tried

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Speaker 2: to sell it some time ago, but I wouldn't do

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Speaker 2: what most people did, and that is to stay in

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Speaker 2: the business and try to leverage it and make all

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Speaker 2: this money. And I just couldn't do that. And so

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Speaker 2: what I ended up doing was committing to giving it

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Speaker 2: all away to charity. And I've done it in a

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Speaker 2: staged process. But the final assets, so the social media,

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Speaker 2: the ebooks, the I quit Sugar recommends, tick, the IP,

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Speaker 2: the trademark, the whole bloody thing I sold off and

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Speaker 2: I announced it. Yeah, just this week or last week,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, everything's always gone to charity for the last

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Speaker 2: four years. You're awesome, But is it true that it's

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Speaker 2: timed almost eleven years from when you actually physically get sugar. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 2: funnily enough, I quit sugar in It was January first,

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eleven. Yes, I committed to doing it

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Speaker 2: for two weeks and then I thought I'd just keep

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Speaker 2: going and it turned out to be eight weeks, and

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Speaker 2: that's why it became an eight week program because I investigated.

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Speaker 3: The fact that that that's how long it takes to.

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Speaker 2: Shift a habit in a really meaningful way, So allowing

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Speaker 2: for you to go back and kind of stuff up

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Speaker 2: and you know, get back on the wag and off

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Speaker 2: the wag and all that kind of thing, eight weeks

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Speaker 2: the science shows is what it takes to really shift

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Speaker 2: an emotional and physical habit. So that cuts to pretty

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Speaker 2: much right now, like literally.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to day to the day.

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Speaker 2: And then so about four years ago though you were like, okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm stepping away, and that's where it was exactly four

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Speaker 2: years Yeah, as well was February two thousand and eighteen

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Speaker 2: that I sold off the first bits of the assets

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Speaker 2: to Sam Wood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so he bought the.

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Speaker 2: Recipes and the images and that kind of thing, and

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Speaker 2: he was awesome about it because he really backed me

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Speaker 2: and chucked in an extra twenty thousand for the next

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Speaker 2: three years to give to charity.

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Speaker 3: I had to join what I was doing. Yeah, what

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Speaker 3: a lead.

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Speaker 2: And I love telling people that because he wasn't. He

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Speaker 2: didn't do a song and dance about it. He just

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Speaker 2: offered that, Yeah he's a good guy.

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Speaker 1: Ah.

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Speaker 2: I don't even love knowing that you when you pass

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Speaker 2: a baby on, it's going to good hands. But I

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Speaker 2: actually think that care begets care, action begets action, and

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Speaker 2: if you do something like that, if you go out

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Speaker 2: on the limb, it begets other people to do it,

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Speaker 2: you know. Like I didn't ask him to, but he

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Speaker 2: obviously got the spirit of it. Yeah, I'd say it's

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Speaker 2: probably worked out well for him. I ended up giving

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Speaker 2: him sort of all these various this is getting technical,

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Speaker 2: but various links, you know, affiliate links and Google seos

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Speaker 2: and all of that, just because I thought, well, he's

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Speaker 2: a good guy.

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Speaker 3: Ah. Anyway, so it probably paid off for him in

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Speaker 3: the end, totally.

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Speaker 2: Is it true, though, that you've written thirteen iquit sugar

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Speaker 2: books like linked igad that's mental, good mental, literally thousands

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Speaker 2: of recipes, which is hilarious because my mum is just

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Speaker 2: sitting right here and she can't quite fathom that I

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Speaker 2: wrote recipes because it's just not something. I've never followed

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Speaker 2: a recipe in my life, apart from anything else.

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Speaker 1: I'm not massive into cooking either, and I've got recipe books.

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Speaker 2: I've got to really well like cook But I saw

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Speaker 2: the symbol things you're intuitive, Yeah, yeah, I don't and

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Speaker 2: I've never I'm not patient enough to follow a recipe.

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Speaker 1: I feel that.

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Speaker 2: So right now sitting in front of me is a

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Speaker 2: fifteen book author. Yeah, Holy mackerel, I'm old. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: absolutely A long time absolutely not. So I have to say,

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Speaker 2: first we make the beast beautiful?

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Speaker 1: My boyfriend. You change my boyfriend's life. Oh really?

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Speaker 2: He has anxiety and panic attacks. And he was equally

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Speaker 2: inspired and confronted. He was like, Hey, I need to

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Speaker 2: put this down for a moment today. Can you share

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Speaker 2: a little bit about because to go from I put

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Speaker 2: sugar recipes to writing a book that is confronting and

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Speaker 2: truthful and an honest dialogue about anxiety, you're bipolar. There's

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Speaker 2: so man different mental health things that often I want

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Speaker 2: to say like they kind of get swept under the

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Speaker 2: rug in the way they're written about. But you're just like,

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Speaker 2: rip that band aid off, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Did that?

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Speaker 2: Did writing that book? I feel like that's a huge

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Speaker 2: shift for your huge change.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and no.

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Speaker 2: In fact, that book was the book I was writing

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Speaker 2: when I started experimenting with quitting sugar back in January

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven, So I was writing it just prior to that.

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Speaker 2: So it was two thousand and ten, so it was

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Speaker 2: a really a I mean that it took seven years

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Speaker 2: to write. First, We Make the Best Beautiful, But of

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Speaker 2: course I quitch Sugar happened in the meantime. So I

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Speaker 2: wrote sixty thousand words and hated it, and I just

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Speaker 2: wasn't ready myself. So I actually gave Remember, Mom and Dad,

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Speaker 2: I gave you the box. I don't know if it

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Speaker 2: still exists somewhere. I think I ended up throwing it out,

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Speaker 2: or I may have come and collected it. Yeah, it was, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just I can't deal with it. I just have

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Speaker 2: to park it. So it's sixty thousand words. So for

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Speaker 2: anyone listening out there feeling that, you know, they may

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Speaker 2: have wasted a huge chunk of their life doing something

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Speaker 2: that went nowhere, try writing sixty thousand words and taking

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Speaker 2: seven years to write a book.

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Speaker 3: Oh I love that though.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it blew up too, didn't it. It went

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Speaker 2: gang busters? Well, it got picked up in the US

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Speaker 2: R well, so the Today Show. Carson Daley on The

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Speaker 2: Today Show happened to read it and they did a

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Speaker 2: five minute special, which is quite a long segment. The

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Speaker 2: Today Show a morning program about me and my neuroses,

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Speaker 2: followed me around New York meditating and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: talking about anxiety, and we had a really great discussion

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Speaker 2: Carson and Night because he has anxiety and he found

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Speaker 2: the book particularly useful, which was what opened my eyes

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Speaker 2: to the fact that the book really resonated with men.

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Speaker 2: So it's interesting that your boyfriend felt it helped him anyway.

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Speaker 2: So it became a New York Times bestseller, and from

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Speaker 2: there you kind of sorted. You know, I'd even noted

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Speaker 2: in Lithuanian and fifty two countries. Fifty well, like Quitch

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Speaker 2: Sugar series is published in fifty two countries. First We

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Speaker 2: Make the Beast Beautiful would be probably in about fifteen

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Speaker 2: countries and in about seventeen languages.

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Speaker 1: I think, pretty solid effort.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty Do you know that you're ranked in the

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Speaker 2: two hundred most influential authors in the world. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: think I ranked two years in a row, just above

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Speaker 2: Stephen King. But I think that specially doesn't have a

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Speaker 2: online presence or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: This is insanely, insanely impressive. And I've loved listening to

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Speaker 2: you be interviewed on podcasts about so I'm also been

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Speaker 2: soaking up Wild your incredible podcast.

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Speaker 1: But it's so fun hearing you talk about this.

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Speaker 2: Book on podcasts, and you're so open about insomnia, and

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Speaker 2: I think you speak about these kind of mental health

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Speaker 2: things in a way that feels so real and it's

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Speaker 2: not kind of like tied up prettily in a self

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Speaker 2: help book. Yeah, I mean, going back to the question

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Speaker 2: you asked, I don't need to know what I like.

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Speaker 2: How do I, you know, writing that way or feel

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Speaker 2: comfortable about writing in that way? And how did I

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Speaker 2: make the leap from sugar? Well, for sugar, from sugar

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Speaker 2: to anxiety is not a huge leap, you know. I

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Speaker 2: quit sugar to help deal with my anxiety. Yeah, back

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Speaker 2: in those days, and it was part of a process

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Speaker 2: just to go My life is a mess because I

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Speaker 2: got very, very unwell.

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Speaker 3: I was the editor of Cosmo.

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Speaker 2: I worked myself into the ground, and I developed an

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Speaker 2: autoimmune disease, which saw me just have to reevaluate everything

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Speaker 2: and rebuild my health again. But it's tied up with

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Speaker 2: my mental health. And I'd put my bipolar under a

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Speaker 2: big rug marked you know, for later.

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Speaker 3: I'll deal with it later.

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Speaker 2: And I went on on a medication from the age

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Speaker 2: of twenty one for it, but it all reared its

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Speaker 2: head again at thirty four along with my autoimmune disease.

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Speaker 2: I quit sugar, but I also went into a deep

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Speaker 2: dive into other practices for working out how to sort

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Speaker 2: it out, and I'm glad I took that seven years

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Speaker 2: to then write the book. But the two are similar

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Speaker 2: in the sense that I went first. I'm listening to

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Speaker 2: me Pig, and I feel that change happens with these

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Speaker 2: very difficult issues. Nobody wants to quit sugar. Nobody wants

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Speaker 2: to face their anxiety a really honest, philosophical, spiritual way. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: without the training wheels. You know that a therapist and

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Speaker 2: medication can provide. Now, I advocate both therapy and medication,

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Speaker 2: but most people with anxiety know that there's a bigger

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Speaker 2: journey to be had. There's a deeper level to go to,

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Speaker 2: and so the two journeys are very similar. Like I

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Speaker 2: went first, I told the story via my experiences just

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Speaker 2: so that it became relatable because there's such difficult issues

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Speaker 2: and we need to we need to be shown, not told,

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Speaker 2: with difficult issues. Yeah, and it's the same with the

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Speaker 2: climate crisis.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: With my most recent book, talk to Me just one

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Speaker 2: wild and precious life. It's a continuation of that strategy,

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Speaker 2: which was all right, I went around the world and

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Speaker 2: I lived incredibly minimally, you know, one backpack, just hiking

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Speaker 2: and following the footsteps of philosophers and blah blah blah,

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Speaker 2: to try to get to the bottom of what it

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Speaker 2: is we needed to do as a species, as humanity

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Speaker 2: to resolve this, not just at a practical level, because

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Speaker 2: that's actually the easiest bit. The solutions exist. The science

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Speaker 2: is in the technology, or the technology to solve the

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Speaker 2: climate crisis exists today. The biggest impediment is our psychological barriers,

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Speaker 2: like the fact that we just don't want to go there,

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Speaker 2: we are not quite ready to vote in the governments

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Speaker 2: that are going to do the right thing, bias, And

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Speaker 2: so I went into the space where I thought was

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Speaker 2: going to best activate people's imagination around that and get

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Speaker 2: them motivated and fight up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, this is totally materialistic, but beautiful cover.

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Speaker 2: Mate, that's a funny story, Lola. No, well, yes, I

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Speaker 2: mean I could be talking slightly out of school, but

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Speaker 2: I haven't made a secret of it. I was presented

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Speaker 2: with a cover that was a little bit not quite

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Speaker 2: right and had a picture of a girl in a

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Speaker 2: bikini on a beach who looked like me intentionally gazing

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Speaker 2: off into the sunset. I mean the books about armageddon,

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Speaker 2: you know, I mean, And this happened just after Scomo

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Speaker 2: had returned from Hawaiish fires were going down crook look. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So I told.

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Speaker 2: My publisher give me the weekend and I designed the

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Speaker 2: cover myself with a montage artist.

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Speaker 3: Called Karen from Adelaide.

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Speaker 2: I happened to find on on Pinterest, and I just said,

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Speaker 2: can you just help me?

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Speaker 3: Can you just like layer up these things?

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Speaker 2: I'm going to send you images of mountains I've climbed

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Speaker 2: and images that I love, and the colors and can

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Speaker 2: we have sparkles and it's kind of thing a spot color.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it was a four day turnaround from beginning to end.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you shared that, though, because a lot of

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Speaker 2: people don't know the bts of a book, and even

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Speaker 2: the creative side of it as its own its own beasts.

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Speaker 2: Oh totally. I mean you've probably noticed it's got columns

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Speaker 2: either side. I designed those specifically so people can write

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Speaker 2: notes in their book and put like little post it

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Speaker 2: notes and then pass it on to a friend and

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Speaker 2: then your notes are there so that you know, friend

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Speaker 2: can see what you know. Your responses were also get

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Speaker 2: very very granular, like the font has to be exactly right,

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Speaker 2: So I designed the fonts and the paper. I go

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Speaker 2: around and feel the paper and the texture and the

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Speaker 2: cover of the book and things like that. What's a

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Speaker 2: tactile experience, right, Yeah, I want you to teach me

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Speaker 2: something that's very new to me. And I've only learned

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Speaker 2: this phrase since researching you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, effective altruism.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's awesome. Well we were just talking off what

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Speaker 2: do you call this off, Mike about Peter Singer. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so Peter Singer for anyone who's not aware of him,

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Speaker 2: because he's been around forever. In the seventies, he kind

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Speaker 2: of invented vegetarianism. He wrote the book Animal Liberation, I

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Speaker 2: think in nineteen seventy six, and it really saw the

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Speaker 2: vegetarian movement take off internationally. And he's now at Princeton

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Speaker 2: and he's regarded as one of the most prolific, well known,

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Speaker 2: powerful philosophers in the world today anyway, and he happens

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Speaker 2: to be Australian, funnily enough, and he's incredibly controversial for

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of reasons.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, google him and you'll see why. But one of

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Speaker 3: the things that.

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Speaker 2: He contributed more recently was this idea of effective altruism,

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Speaker 2: and it spawned a whole range of different movements and

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Speaker 2: sort of the you know, the Bros and Silicon Valley

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Speaker 2: of embraced it.

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Speaker 3: Sam Harris is a big fan.

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Speaker 1: TIERF.

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Speaker 2: Ferris is a big fan. Bill Gaye also follows the

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Speaker 2: work of Peter Singer and his various disciples, and the

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Speaker 2: idea is that we should give whatever is in excess

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Speaker 2: of what we actually need to have a functional life

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Speaker 2: to those in need, and we should do it in

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Speaker 2: the most effective way possible. So that's his moral code.

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Speaker 2: He's a utilitarian and he's a consequentialist, which is all

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Speaker 2: our moral actions, whether we are to be judged a

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Speaker 2: good person to be judged our by the consequences of

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Speaker 2: our actions. So you can have really good intentions, but

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Speaker 2: that's not good enough. It's about how effective our altruistic

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Speaker 2: intentions are. It's a very very nuanced area, but it's

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Speaker 2: very pragmatic and it seems to work quite well. So

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Speaker 2: it's led to a movement where a lot of millionaires

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Speaker 2: are giving away ten percent of their income, and billionaires

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Speaker 2: are committing to even more than that in some pockets

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Speaker 2: of the world. Yeah, and there's a formula for where

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Speaker 2: your money will do the most good, so give well

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Speaker 2: dot org, for instance, I think lists the top three

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Speaker 2: charities where you will save the most lives.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and one of them is a.

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Speaker 2: Mosquito net company where it costs five dollars a mosquito

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Speaker 2: net and that will effectively save a family of four

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Speaker 2: from dying of malaria. So you know, you can give

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Speaker 2: money to your local guide dog association, which will help

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Speaker 2: one person, yeah, you know, be able to navigate their

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Speaker 2: way around the planet, or you can save the lives

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Speaker 2: of families.

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Speaker 3: And he has a very pragmatic approach.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, I have lived by that kind of concept for

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Speaker 2: some time, I suppose, where I've tried to work out

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Speaker 2: what will get the most well, the biggest result.

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Speaker 3: But I'm a little different to his approach.

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Speaker 2: He's about just saving numbers of lives, whereas I feel

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Speaker 2: there's also a juicier element to that. We've also got

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Speaker 2: to engage humanity with care and because then that care

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Speaker 2: can expand into you know, sort of at a legislative level,

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Speaker 2: it can expand into a whole range of different change.

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Speaker 2: We're just giving money to somebody, a family in Africa

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Speaker 2: who needs.

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Speaker 3: A malaria net.

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Speaker 2: You aren't emotionally and spiritually and philosophically engaged. So I

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Speaker 2: try to get as much banged for buck by getting

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Speaker 2: people engaged in the charity itself. And they don't just

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Speaker 2: press a button donate, you know, on Facebook or something,

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Speaker 2: they've actually got it. In one example, I created these

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Speaker 2: blankets from the offcuts of.

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Speaker 3: The wool from the only you Know wool.

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Speaker 2: Factory in Australia or blanket blanket fattery in Australia. It

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Speaker 2: was all the off cuts and mixed it with the

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Speaker 2: the denim offcuts from Nudi jeans and made these blankets

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Speaker 2: which then people had to buy. They'd buy one for

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Speaker 2: themselves so they engage with the bland, and one for

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Speaker 2: a woman in need in a shelter. And then the

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Speaker 2: little silk tag on the blanket that the woman in

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Speaker 2: the shelter gets says, this has been given to you

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Speaker 2: by a woman who you know, says, by someone who

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Speaker 2: wants to really make sure you've got something special.

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Speaker 3: Blah blah, blah, oh, I get it, I get and then.

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Speaker 2: The person who bought the blanket for themselves, they then

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Speaker 2: are also aware of what the situation is for homeless

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Speaker 2: people in Australia, but they also get an idea of

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Speaker 2: their closest shelter because I think some ridiculous figure like

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Speaker 2: the average woman over fifty is only three paychecks away

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Speaker 2: from being in a shelter.

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Speaker 3: So it's really important.

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Speaker 2: And you know where there's a shelter that can help

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Speaker 2: you if you land in trouble. So it had lots

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Speaker 2: of facets to it. So I try to design projects

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Speaker 2: that work. I love effective way.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for teaching me that no, no, no to vultuism.

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Speaker 1: I want to.

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Speaker 2: It's come up quite a few times when I've started

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, I need to understand there's more. There's

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Speaker 2: another word. Yeah, I feel like I've heard Encyclopedia of

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Speaker 2: Sarah Wilson philoum philotimos. Yes, yeah, it's a Greek word. Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's a wonderful me, so, isn't it. It's kind of

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Speaker 2: in the similar vein. So when I was in I

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Speaker 2: spend quite a bit of time in breeze. It's a

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Speaker 2: bit of a homeland for me, and I feel very

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Speaker 2: held there and I just keep going back, you know,

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Speaker 2: whenever I can. So Philotomos is a concept that really

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Speaker 2: has no other translation in any other language, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't really play out in any other part of the world.

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Speaker 2: And it's this idea of giving to a stranger. But

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00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: it's more than that, it's the joy of giving to

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Speaker 2: a stranger. And so I spoke to Greeks everywhere and

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Speaker 2: I was asking it, you know, them about it, and

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like asking Australian what does I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to try to come up with some ridiculous

440
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: phrase that Australians use, but you know, I don't know,

441
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 2: how's it going or something? I know. Someone's just part

442
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: of the break of who you are of a nation.

443
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: So philotimos isn't something you get taught. It's just something

444
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 2: that is part of family life. It's what the Greeks do.

445
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: And so I know that when I'm in Greece, if

446
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 2: I'm about to walk into a puddle, there'll be about

447
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: three Greeks that, all you know, come in.

448
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 3: And grab an arm and stimm me away from it all.

449
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 2: If you're in any kind of trouble people.

450
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 3: They love it.

451
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 2: They just love an opportunity to come and help a

452
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 2: stranger with no expectation of no expectation. That's the key, exactly,

453
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,560
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. So it's sort of it's this idea

454
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: of paying it forward, but with the recognition that you've

455
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 2: already received for Loto moss from somebody else already. So

456
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 2: you're paying it forward not in expectation that you'll get something,

457
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 2: it's in recognition that you've already received it.

458
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it's such a beautiful concept.

459
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: Because I'm pretty sure it happened to you where you

460
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: like only had your credit card you wanted to get

461
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: and someone was like, no, no, no, we've got to stay

462
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 2: friends as well, have you. Yeah, yeah, he's awesome. So

463
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 2: and he writes emails to me in the funniest English. So,

464
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: I was going to this beautiful and I've forgotten the

465
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 2: name of the gorge.

466
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 3: It's in the middle of Crete.

467
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: It's a very famous gorge and you've got to go.

468
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 3: It says like a.

469
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: Two and a half hour bus ride up onto the

470
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: to the top of the White Mountains and then you

471
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 2: get out and Samaria Gorge is what it's called and

472
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: giving me a travel list as I interview. Yeah, well

473
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 2: the book of course is yeah as well. But so

474
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: I got out and I got to the front desk

475
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 2: and of course, classic Greek moment, they accept cash only,

476
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 2: and I had none, and I had an f poss

477
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: down my bra, which is how I generally travel for like,

478
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, everything's down my bra and I just sort

479
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 2: of went oh, so I thought, you know, this is

480
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: not going to be a problem.

481
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: It's grease, so you go.

482
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 2: I was just going to go to the ticket to

483
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 2: the counter where the guard takes your ticket and just

484
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: tell them I don't have a ticket. Anyway, I was

485
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 2: explaining this to the Greek guard and he was about

486
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: to wave me through because they just find it really funny.

487
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 2: They love anybody he's willing to break the you know,

488
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 2: the status quo. You know.

489
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like good on you, particularly increte. Actually.

490
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: Anyway, I was about to do it and this guy

491
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: comes forward and he says, ah, this is for you,

492
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: and he bought me a ticket and I was like, oh,

493
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: thank you. Anyway, he was a complete geek from Athens.

494
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: He was like carrying two computer bags, like the really

495
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: old skill with lots of velt crope and it was

496
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: stuffed with sound we just wrapped in our foil. He

497
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 2: also had his Nest cafe shaking machine. I don't know

498
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: what else he had in there, multiple pairs of thongs

499
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: and all this. Anyway, we set off down the hill,

500
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 2: down this hike, and he'd never hiked before, and we

501
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: laughed our heads off the whole time, and he told

502
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: me about Philotomos. Love it. I said to him, that's

503
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: so nice of you to buy me the ticket. He says, oh,

504
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: it's nothing, it's what we do here in Greece they had.

505
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: I can't remember what the phrase is in Greek, but

506
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 2: it basically means it's what we do. And yeah, we

507
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: stayed in touch. Actually we still write letters to each other.

508
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: I love it very funny.

509
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, there are so many cool things I

510
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: want to talk to you about. But I'm so wrapped

511
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 2: that you just shared that story. I love the way

512
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: you speak about loneliness versus being alone.

513
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: And you've written about the lady in red and read.

514
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's another awesome woman who I'm still in touch with. Cool. Yeah.

515
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: So I was in Lubiana, which is the capital of Slovenia,

516
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,919
Speaker 2: and I was at this juncture in my life where

517
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: I had got pregnant in Crete using sperm from a

518
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 2: twenty one year old Danish poet, and I was waiting

519
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: to find out if I was pregnant. And this was

520
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: the day that I had to find out. It was

521
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: day whatever it is, and I had to find out.

522
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: But it was a public holiday. But my plan B

523
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 2: was to go hiking, and I had to head off

524
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,719
Speaker 2: that morning, and I had my gear, I had a

525
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: helmet and my harness because I had to do sort

526
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: of some climbing and I was heading off for eight

527
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 2: days on this elaborate hike. So I'm like, talk about

528
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: cutting it fine. Like I just had got the timing

529
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: wrong by about forty eight hours, and my doctor back

530
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: in Crete said, no, you have to get a blood test.

531
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: So I had to catch an uber over two mountain

532
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 2: rangers to the only clinic that do a blood test

533
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: on a public holiday. It's in the middle of August.

534
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: It was forty degrees as well. Anyway, I had done

535
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: the blood test. I was back in a cafe in Lubiana.

536
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: It was the only cafe that was kind of open

537
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 2: in this square, and I'm sitting there waiting for my

538
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 2: fate to be determined, you know that Plan A or

539
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: Plan B.

540
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: Red pill in A.

541
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 2: And I was watching this woman and she was just

542
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 2: sitting there, and she was a bit younger than I am,

543
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 2: and I was at the time, so I'm just calculating now.

544
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 2: I think she's thirty eight. She's ten years younger than me,

545
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 2: and so so I know this now. Obviously at the time,

546
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: I was just watching her. And she was wearing a

547
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: red and white striped T shirt and a red skirt

548
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: and red burk and stocks. And she was just sitting there,

549
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 2: smiling out to the square in the heat, no phone,

550
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: just sitting there quietly drinking a coffee. And I had

551
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: I watched her for about forty five minutes, you know,

552
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: frantically waiting for my phone to ring to tell me

553
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: whether I was pregnant or not. And I lent over

554
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 2: and I said, what are you doing? And she said, ah,

555
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: on public holidays, I just liked to sit and I

556
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: disliked to watch and think with my thoughts. And I

557
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 2: remember going, oh my god. I ask if I could

558
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: take a photo, and then I shared it on Instagram

559
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: and I shared what she'd said, and it just went

560
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: quite mental in the comments where people went, how does

561
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: she do it? I used to be able to do that.

562
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: I can't do it anymore. And anyway, that was an

563
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: anecdote I told. I think in a chapter in my

564
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 2: latest book about this idea of a loneeness and loneliness,

565
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: and you know, I explore it quite deeply because it

566
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 2: actually launches the theme of the book, because I think

567
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: that a lot of our problems in and around the

568
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 2: climate crisis and beyond stems from an inability to have

569
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 2: a relationship with ourselves. So we're not just lonely from

570
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: other people. That certainly is happening, but it's not the

571
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: it's not the bigger problem. And in fact, a lot

572
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 2: of us are feeling overwhelmed by too many people. But

573
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: the bigger problem is where we're feeling alone from ourselves

574
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: or sorry, lonely from ourselves and lonely from the general

575
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 2: matrix of life or meaning, you know, we're lonely from meaningfulness,

576
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: an ability to actually tap into, yeah, what I call

577
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: the sort of the matrix of meaning. We're disconnected from it.

578
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: And that is the bigger problem, and that is what

579
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: is leading to what I think is a real existential loneliness.

580
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 2: And that's at the core of so much of what

581
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 2: we do, which is consuming and consuming and consuming every ring. Yes,

582
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: more and more and more of everything, more movement, have all,

583
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 2: more activities, more school sports and extracurricular stuff for our kids.

584
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 2: Netflix more Netflix, Yeah, more food, more, you know, more

585
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 2: online shopping. And it's filling a void which used to

586
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: be filled with spiritual practices.

587
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: And with rest, you know.

588
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: And it's interesting that we pivoted from a discussion about Lubiana.

589
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 2: In Slovenia, they still have an absolute respect for some

590
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: of those practices. I mean, it's an awesome country. It

591
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: is so progressive. It's one the EU Green Capital of

592
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 2: the Year two years in a row. Like there are

593
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: no cars allowed in the city, no bottled water allowed.

594
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 2: Like they're like garbage disposal systems are incredible. You can

595
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 2: only use the like general waste landfilled garbage. Shoot, you

596
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: have to use these kind of like credit card type

597
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: scanners if you've already used an xyz amount of or

598
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 2: put enough recycling compost or whatever. So you can only

599
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 2: use it if you've already recycled most of yours.

600
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

601
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So anyway, I diverge.

602
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: But the point is is in Slovenia, they still have

603
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 2: a Sabbath, they still have a Sunday where there's no

604
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 2: shops open and everybody goes and hikes and goes on

605
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: picnics like we used to.

606
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 3: Do when I was a kid.

607
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: Like when I was a kid, the shops were only

608
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: open for half of Saturday, and they were you know,

609
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: obviously shut on Sunday as well, And that was kind

610
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: of like a boundary. And I almost think it's a

611
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 2: moral boundary. Yeah. They were put in place to protect

612
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: us from our worst excesses, you know what I mean,

613
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: because we will chase more. Yeah, but we need boundaries

614
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: to ensure that we preserve the stuff that really matters

615
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: to us, the meaningful stuff, which is connection with other people,

616
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: connection with Nate.

617
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 3: Nature all that.

618
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: Speaking of nature, one of my favorite words is biophilia.

619
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: I know it's been for a long time. Remember is

620
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 3: that years ago?

621
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: You love it and I feel like you live it.

622
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: You hiking is in your veins, but also in your family.

623
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: It sounds like your family like everyone I've heard you say,

624
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: like everyone cycles and yeah, well sudden because mum and

625
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: dad a couch dad from a bit of a snooze.

626
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: Dad through.

627
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: We cycle. Yeah, Mum and Dad still ride everyway. Yeah,

628
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: they've got electric bikes now, But Dad, do you still

629
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: mountain bike?

630
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: Are you gone back?

631
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: He's gone back to old school. I didn't know that, okay,

632
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 2: but mum, you know, Mum rides an electric bike. They'll

633
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: ride somewhere rather than drive. Yeah, and all of my

634
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: brothers and sister. Yeah, all of my siblings, we all ride.

635
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: We'll all ride before we'll get in the car. And

636
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: I don't own a car. Yes, does Jane own a car?

637
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 3: No, she does.

638
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, But yeah, generally that's sort of how we do things.

639
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: And the way that we socialize or get together is

640
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: generally around a hike.

641
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: How cool, I'll go only little green shorts. You still

642
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: got your little green shawts.

643
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: Oh they had to rest in peace after eleven years.

644
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: I've got such memories of you in those shorts, I know. Well, yeah,

645
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 2: actually it's funny. Dad still has a pair of shorts

646
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: I used to wear a little athletics. They're about ten

647
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 2: centimeters across, aren't they They're tiny. When I was I

648
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: don't know how long old, I was probably actually quite old.

649
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: I just think I had a really.

650
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: Small bump, but they were exactly the same green with

651
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: the white Queenbian Little Athletics. Dad's got them at home still,

652
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: so maybe I could fit into those. But the first

653
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: pair were brought from American Apparel.

654
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: In La years ago.

655
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: That shop is no more exactly, so I can no

656
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: longer wear the green shorts. So yeah, I was blown

657
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: away to learn that you studied quantum physics, my friend. Well,

658
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: it was a form of quantum physics. It was over

659
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 2: in Santa Cruz, and it was during an era when

660
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: philosophy was moving into this realm. So the actual course

661
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 2: was called Philosophy of the Universe. And it's actually it's

662
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: a really funny story. I went over there, I was

663
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: twenty one, and I ended up doing the graduate program

664
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 2: and I signed up for this course, and interestingly enough,

665
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: it's got a funny full circle story. Dave Sharma's Rhodes Scholar.

666
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 2: He's Australian. He ended up there and then he ended

667
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: up in America as sort of a bit of an

668
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: expert in black hole theoryp and you and all of

669
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and he was the lecturer and

670
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 2: so this course was a bit of a strange one

671
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 2: and it was like philosophy of the universe, and we

672
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: had to come up with a new theory of time.

673
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: That was our project for the semester. I ended up

674
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 2: not completing it because that was when I was diagnosed

675
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 2: with my power.

676
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 3: I got very sick and couldn't finish it.

677
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, it was Dave Chalmers who noticed I was

678
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: missing from school. Because I was on the other side

679
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: of the world, I didn't really friends to know what

680
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: I was doing and what I was up to, but

681
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: he happened to notice, and maybe because I was Australian, yeah,

682
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: and he notified the university who eventually came and got me,

683
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: and I sort of went to the clinic and eventually

684
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 2: came home back to Australia. But when I was researching

685
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: for this one wild and Precious life, I was looking

686
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: into sort of some of those deeper questions and the

687
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: deepest kind of questions we could ask ourselves. And my

688
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: publisher sent me a link and said, oh, look, this

689
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: guy is talking about some interesting stuff, this notion of

690
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: the hard problem. And he it turns out it was

691
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: David Chalmers. Ah, so he ended up becoming this big

692
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: AI specialist and a robotics expert, and he's still kind

693
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,720
Speaker 2: of considered the leading voice in what's called the hard question,

694
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 2: which is the fact that we will never have a

695
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: broad enough consciousness to be able to discover what consciousness is. Yeah,

696
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 2: so I'm hoping this, Yeah he was, Yeah, exactly. So

697
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: it was quite interesting and he I interviewed him for

698
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: the book and I'm actually due to interview him on

699
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 2: my podcast because he's got a new book that's coming

700
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 2: out about whether artificial intelligence can never actually experience consciousness.

701
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 2: Oh my yeah.

702
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

703
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: So anyway, so that was seen Westworld? Is he what

704
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,239
Speaker 2: have you seen the TV show Westworld? No, it's all

705
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 2: based It's all based on exactly that Anthony Hopkins. It's amazing.

706
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 2: I have heard about it. I've got a list, like

707
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: I haven't watched that. Oh I mean yeah, I've missed

708
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: out on whole slabs of time, I.

709
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: Think because I'm training in acting.

710
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: Now I'm like, well, this is an excuse, it's research,

711
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 2: Right's right.

712
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: I was so excited to learn that you're a foster mom. Yeah.

713
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so well there's a journey to this point though,

714
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: because there was I actually remember when we were touring. Yeah,

715
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 2: you just had a miscarriage. Yeah, I've had a few.

716
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 2: Not quite sh was, but yeah, I've had a few.

717
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: So I was told I couldn't have kids when I

718
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: was thirty four, when I got sick and that I

719
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: was going through premature menopause blah blah blah, and through

720
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: quitting sugar and all the other stuff I did, I

721
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,439
Speaker 2: managed to you know, sort of heal my body such

722
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: to a point that where that was no longer the

723
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: diagnosis and in fact got to a point where my

724
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 2: system was very, very healthy.

725
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 3: And I got pregnant by accident at forty two.

726
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 2: Yes, And then from there I was like, oh, okay,

727
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: well this is a possibility. I'm not infertile obviously. And

728
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: so then when on a journey to Chyna have kids

729
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 2: in a very you know, contemporary way, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

730
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: you know, trying to find a bloke and well, you know,

731
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: that ended up being impossible, so I had to kind

732
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 2: of do it in yeah, a very creative way. I

733
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: love the creative way though, But is it true that

734
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: you got knocked back up because of your age in Australia,

735
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: So that's why I had to.

736
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 1: Go to creet Yeah that's yeah, as.

737
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 2: A single woman, over forty two in Australia, getting yeah,

738
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: be able to get insemination because I didn't do IVF, Yeah,

739
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: is not possible.

740
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 1: That's crazy to me.

741
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: I know, I do love the I fought it, Oh

742
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 2: good go. I fought it and then gave up and

743
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: I found a loophole here and then it just proved

744
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 2: too difficult.

745
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: So I just went to Greece where they're just.

746
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: Like, you want a baby like it. It's actually the

747
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: freest place where they're just they're like, you know, if

748
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: you want if that's something that you feel you want

749
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: to do, and they're very, very nurturing. Yeah, if anybody's considering,

750
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 2: I recommend going to Greece to do it. Oh that's

751
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 2: Was there a moment where you were like after that

752
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: moment at forty two where you're like, okay, well this

753
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: is possible and I didn't think it was. Was there

754
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: a moment where you're like, Okay, this is a part

755
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: of my life.

756
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: I want to be your mother.

757
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well I'd gone through the grief, you know, years

758
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: early and had to.

759
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 3: But although there was still a piece of me that's like,

760
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 3: there's probably maybe there's a way to do it.

761
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: I don't know.

762
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 2: I was cutting it fine, leaving it to forty two

763
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 2: having not explored things. I'd explored things to a certain extent.

764
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's been a it's a very conflicted relationship

765
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 2: I have with it all. I always wanted children. It

766
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 2: didn't present itself, you know. I found it very hard

767
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 2: to find a partner. I've been single for fourteen almost

768
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: fifteen years now, largely, and so yeah, I mean I

769
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: kind of of that generation where we were encouraged to,

770
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 2: you know, go hard at career, and yet the boys

771
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: of my generation weren't educated into where they fitted into that,

772
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 2: you know, And so there's a whole chunk of women

773
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: if my age group, who are you know, successful, have

774
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 2: worked really hard, contributed great stuff, and they haven't had

775
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: kids or found a partner, and you know, we were

776
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 2: sort of like this kind of little blip in the process.

777
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: It was an important process to transition from so the

778
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: early feminist movement to my era, which was all about

779
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 2: getting the girls to beat the boys, you know. And

780
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: then but then of course that left us doing everything

781
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,959
Speaker 2: because the boys didn't catch up. And then those boys

782
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: of our generation end up dating women ten fifteen years

783
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 2: old younger than us, and so Yeah, it's a really

784
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: interesting phenomen I've been following it really closely.

785
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: It's this kind of warped.

786
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 2: So there's a warping of this idea called hypergame, which

787
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: is the way that men and women date.

788
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 3: Up and down.

789
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: Really Yeah, it's for a very long discussion that one

790
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: that might have to be a separate podcast.

791
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: Thank you, Shan Because you date of all age groups,

792
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: don't you like? You have a I love that.

793
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's called People used to always say

794
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: to me when I was single, like what's yeah, and

795
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: I've when you set your Bumble and Tinder date like

796
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: your age bracket.

797
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't really care. People thought I

798
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: was crazy. Yeah.

799
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've now kind of given up on the standard

800
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 2: way of doing things and I just basically go and

801
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: try to find connection wherever I can, Yeah, you know,

802
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: in whatever form it wants to take. And I just

803
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: try to identify where there's charm and where there's interest

804
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 2: and there's a spark, and it can be with male

805
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 2: and female. Like so back to the fostering thing. Yes,

806
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: eventually I made the decision and I write about it

807
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: in my book. It's sort of odd talking about it

808
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: in front of my parents, but I write about it,

809
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: so it's out there. But I did make a decision

810
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 2: in the end to terminate a pregnancy. I was forty

811
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: five and I got very unwell mental health just it

812
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: just bottomed out. My thyroid health bottomed out. I was

813
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: not functioning, and the doctors sort of said to me, look,

814
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: if you're like this now, it's going to be hard

815
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: for you to recover and you know, obviously get your

816
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: health back in order.

817
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: And it'd taken me.

818
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: It taken me the good part of ten years to

819
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 2: recover from that health collapse when I was thirty four,

820
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: and I just knew my gut, knew my intuition, knew

821
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 2: that I would not recover. So I would not be

822
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: of service to the child. I would not be also

823
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: of service to the work that I was doing in

824
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: yourself as a human. Yeah, I just wouldn't be able

825
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 2: to do the work that I'd come to realize was

826
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 2: my real purpose, which is just continually trying to go

827
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: into those spaces where people struggle to wake up and

828
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 2: to get connected and to do the right thing by

829
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: themselves and the planet. So I couldn't do it all,

830
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 2: you know, Like it's kind of ironic that, you know,

831
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 2: I was peak that generation, being told I could do everything.

832
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 2: I gave it a good shot and then ride at

833
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 2: that eleventh hour, I just had to pull out and go, nah,

834
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: I can't. And so unfortunately I did sacrifice the thing

835
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: that I'd always wanted, that service. That really nut rushing

836
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: aspect of what it means to be female. But it's

837
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: probably fired me up to do the work that I

838
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: do do, you know, with kind of you know, on steroids,

839
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: you know, to really fire it up, because I don't

840
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 2: I don't want to go to my death bed without

841
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: having left a legacy.

842
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you are a foster mum to a nine.

843
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 2: Year old At the moment, I'm seeing I've got a

844
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: little kid that's coming on a respite basis. Okay, so

845
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: she's she Yeah, it's it's where they're in a home

846
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 2: and either the parents or the child are struggling, and

847
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 2: so they need a break, so they come and stay

848
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 2: with me.

849
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 3: I've done quite a bit of that.

850
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 2: During COVID there was a teenager, a wonderful teenager who

851
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: lived with me for six months. Oh yeah, she was

852
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 2: a great kid. She's she's a bit of a COVID casualty.

853
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: She really struggled from all the things that a lot

854
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: of teenagers have struggled with and unfortunately sort of hit

855
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 2: a bad patch. And I'm hoping that she'll get back

856
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 2: on track. But yeah, so and then before that, I

857
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 2: sort of had I was doing a lot of respite.

858
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny.

859
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: I interviewed someone on the pod who had grew up

860
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: in five different foster homes and describes the two that

861
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 2: changed her life for the better, and so the power

862
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: that you can have in another human beings life, and

863
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: she to this day refers to them as my mum.

864
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 2: And even though not biological, she it was really cool

865
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 2: to here, and she said, I want to share my

866
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: foster story because it's a really positive experience. That.

867
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know she was a foster.

868
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: I didn't until I read really interesting.

869
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 2: So what you're doing is like she talked about that.

870
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 2: She said it was her last foster parent when she

871
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: was thirteen, and she realized she had choice when she

872
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 2: rocked up with two garbage bags of her clothes. That's

873
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: how they arrive and the foster mum said, we need

874
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 2: to get you some clothes. You don't have anything, And

875
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,280
Speaker 2: she said we were buying undies or knickers because she's British.

876
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,240
Speaker 2: She goes, we're buying knickers and Mark's and Spencer or something,

877
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,760
Speaker 2: and she said, I got them. She said, she asked

878
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: me do I want pink or multicolored? And she said

879
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: it was like the world stopped. I'd never made a

880
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 2: choice before. Yeah, So like what a gift to give

881
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 2: another human on their journey? Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean,

882
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: if I can, you know, really encourage anyone listening to

883
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,359
Speaker 2: think about fostering, because anyone can become a foster parent.

884
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 3: You can be male, female, or whatever, age, single, whatever.

885
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: There are forty thousand foster kids in Australia and the

886
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 2: twenty thousand of them so half are Indigenous. So I

887
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: foster Indigenous kids only. And there's only four and a

888
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: half thousand foster parents whoa so a lot of these kids.

889
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: So the little one I've got at the moment, she's

890
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 2: in her home with five or six other foster kids,

891
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, in bunk beds and that kind of thing.

892
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 2: Most of them are in that scenario. A lot of

893
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: the older teenagers are in motel rooms. Oh my god.

894
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 3: So that's where they end up.

895
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 2: Because there aren't orphanages or institutions any longer, I think

896
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: since the nineteen seventies. So it's a really dire situation

897
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 2: and so for anyone. And of course adoption laws in

898
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 2: Australia are very prohibitive. It's very difficult to adopt. One

899
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: route for being able to adopt kids is through the

900
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 2: fostering system.

901
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 3: Now you can't foster.

902
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: You can't adopt Indigenous kids for very obvious reasons, you know,

903
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 2: the whole stolen generation thing, and the whole aim is

904
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: to try to restore them back to their parent. That's

905
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 2: the aim of the system. With that I sort of

906
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: am part of. But with standard you know, fostering, it's

907
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 2: actually a really good route for anybody who wants to

908
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 2: form a really good relationship, and you can adopting. So

909
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: I really courage people to look into it. It's and

910
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 2: you can do it as like I am at the moment,

911
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: which is just respite. Yeah, and it can be as

912
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: often or as you know, you know, infrequent as you like. Yeah,

913
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,840
Speaker 2: you can do emergency, which is you know, you're the

914
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 2: person they call when there's a kid that's just suddenly

915
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: needs to be somewhere, or you can do long term.

916
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: Ah, thank you for sharing that. How cool.

917
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: I had no idea there were that little foster parents

918
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 2: in Australia.

919
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: I had no idea.

920
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that it's unfortunate because I think if people knew

921
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: the benefits, and also I could see that it's a

922
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: way of becoming a parent, you know. Yeah, yeah, not

923
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 2: to take a really weird turn, but I'm a massive

924
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 2: refuge of as fan. And he's got to stand up

925
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: comedy piece called Humanity and he talks about why you

926
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:46,720
Speaker 2: chose not to have kids?

927
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I haven't. I've listened to a bit of it,

928
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 3: but I haven't.

929
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I might send it to you after

930
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: just the way he's very, very inspiring, And yeah he

931
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: does talk about he'd rather kind of like help and

932
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: already overpopulated.

933
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: Well, yes, you know that.

934
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 2: Was part of my thinking as well. There was climate

935
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: reason of course. Yeah, you're self described as wild, and

936
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: I know that because I've been lucky enough to hang

937
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: out with you a few times. What I love about

938
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: you is I feel like you're fearlessly wild.

939
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: Obviously this pot is feelously failing, but there's.

940
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 2: An element of you that I've always felt no matter

941
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: when I've seen you because there's been gaps of years

942
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 2: and whatnot where you are just unapologetically, Hey, this is

943
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: who I am, These are my values, this is what

944
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: I stand for. Take it or leave it. I love

945
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: that about you. Is that where you would say your

946
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: wildness comes from all you say, No, it's like physically

947
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: being out in the wild and being connected to nature.

948
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: Like yeah, it's more the format, it's more your interpretation

949
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 2: of it. I don't think I've described myself as wild.

950
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: I think I think I maybe somebody did, and somebody did,

951
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 2: But I use the word wild because it's an area

952
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: that I think everybody needs to explore, you know. I

953
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 2: feel that the missing piece is in a lot of

954
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: people's unhappiness is accessing that wildness, going to the edge,

955
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: exploring courage, going to the spaces where you need to

956
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: go to be creative and actually shift the world. So

957
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: that's more what I promote. I suppose other people have

958
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: interpreted that as I must be wild.

959
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: I like it.

960
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 2: I'm also incredibly conservative, and you know, sort of I

961
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: don't know, straight laced. In other ways, I'm certainly not

962
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: a party animal or you know, I don't do anything irresponsible.

963
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: I think I've only had green juices with.

964
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: You your green juices. It was yeah, you know, I

965
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 2: drink decaf at the moment, so that's pretty wild. And

966
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: you know, I can have one glass of wine at

967
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 2: a time. You know, that's as wild as I get. Like,

968
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 2: It's not like I'm out partying or doing reckless things.

969
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: But I do explore ideas that I feel are better

970
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: than the status quo. You know, That's essentially what I do.

971
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 2: But I also just really try to promote the idea

972
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: of or invite people to do the same, to go

973
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 2: to their edge. And again there's spiritual basis to it,

974
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 2: totally spiritual tradition has talked about this, you know. And

975
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 2: to also honor discomfort. We live in a culture where

976
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 2: we are so we think that discomfort is something to

977
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 2: be eradicated, avoided and so on at all costs. And

978
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: ninety percent of technology that has been invented in the

979
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: last thirty years is geared at getting rid of discomfort.

980
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: So any kind of delayed gratification making things faster. We

981
00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 2: don't have to you know, lift a limb to order

982
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: our dinner, you know, I mean everything can be done

983
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 2: on Siri, and then you don't even have to wonder

984
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 2: how long your pizza is going to take because the

985
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 2: orb through ye suburbs, I mean so, and that has

986
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 2: rendered us absolutely unresilient, uncreative, unhappy and very unwild and

987
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: disconnected and like stunted.

988
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: Like you grow, you grow when you're uncomfortable.

989
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 2: And like someone said to me, oh, you're thirty six,

990
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: why are you training and acting? And I'm like, mate,

991
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: because I have to, Like I forced myself to fail

992
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: and fall flat on my face and that feeling. Yeah,

993
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 2: it's confronting, but I change as a result. I learned

994
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: something about, yeah, myself, but I learned something about oh

995
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: this feeling of like sitting and courage, sitting in dicomfort

996
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 2: it totally.

997
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: I totally agree with it.

998
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 2: Build It builds resilience, but also gives you a It's

999
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,320
Speaker 2: a really cool way to learn who the f you are,

1000
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 2: Like you get to learn hang on, this is what

1001
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 2: I want to do.

1002
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: And the way you talked about like not living to

1003
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: like status quo, Like I don't.

1004
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 2: I feel stuck if I feel like I'm too comfortable,

1005
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: I feel uncomfortable if I'm too comfortable.

1006
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 1: I want to get outside and just be a little.

1007
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 2: Bit more white eleanor Roosevelt. I think it was said,

1008
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 2: you know, do something every day that scares you, you know,

1009
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: and that could be just like walking a different way

1010
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: to the bus stop, or saying hello to something one that.

1011
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 3: You wouldn't normally say hello to. It can be something

1012
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 3: like that.

1013
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 2: But we do need to be shaken up, and then

1014
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: that then plays out in other aspects of our lives.

1015
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 2: And look, there are some great ideas, and there's some

1016
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 2: great protocols, and there are great laws out there that

1017
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 2: do work for us, but there's a hell of a

1018
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 2: lot that aren't, particularly at the moment. And complacency is

1019
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: highly destructive. And Hannah rant the she's a sort of

1020
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: an existential philosopher from Germany who survived the you know,

1021
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 2: the Nazi Germany thing and went back to actually report

1022
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 2: for the New York or on the Nuremberg trials, you know,

1023
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixties. And she came up with a

1024
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: phrase called the banality of evil, or maybe it's the

1025
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: evil of banality. I can't remember which way around, Dad,

1026
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: do you remember which way around?

1027
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1028
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: So either way, the meaning is the same. It's the idea.

1029
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 2: She basically said that in action is actually more immoral

1030
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 2: than action at times. So that was in relation to

1031
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: all these kind of generals who said I was just

1032
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 2: following orders and she actually deemed it more immoral and

1033
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: problematic than the person giving the orders, because at least

1034
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 2: then the person giving the orders is clearly an enemy.

1035
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 3: The people who.

1036
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 2: Do nothing, who live meekly, who stand by and let

1037
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 2: wrong happen, who let a country like Australia go down

1038
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 2: the gurglar and values that are really important to the

1039
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: identity of a nation because they can't be bothered to

1040
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: get involved in politics.

1041
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 3: That is a moral and it's not a way to live.

1042
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 2: And so in terms of going back to wild we

1043
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 2: just need to question things. We need to be alive,

1044
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: we need to be vibrant, we need to go to

1045
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: the outer limbs and actually engage because we've lost that

1046
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 2: and the world is suffering as a result. Look at

1047
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: the world today, there's fragmentation, polarization. You know, the average

1048
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 2: life expectancy in the US just prior to COVID had

1049
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 2: dropped for three years in a row for the first

1050
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: time in history to the diseases of despair. So hope

1051
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 2: you in use alcohol and suicide. That is one of

1052
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 2: the most frightening statistics I've heard. And so this is

1053
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: what happens when we stop paying attention, we accept, we

1054
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 2: fall asleep, you know, and we just kind of give in.

1055
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: So what's your advice to people that might be listening

1056
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 2: right now and be like, okay, you know, I want

1057
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 2: to change, whether it be climate, whether it be their

1058
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 2: own value system.

1059
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: What do you Because it can feel overwhelming, it can

1060
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 1: feel scary, It.

1061
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 2: A bit like, well, there's a phrase Pema Chadren. You'd

1062
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 2: probably aware of this star. You'd love her work. If

1063
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,720
Speaker 2: anyone's having a rough time in life, I really recommend

1064
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 2: I buy this book for a lot of people. It's

1065
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 2: called When Things Fall Apart. She's an American Buddhist nun or.

1066
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 2: She's wonderful, she's a great writer. But she has a

1067
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: phrase that says, start where you are, so you don't

1068
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 2: have to go out there and save the world, like

1069
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 2: you know, Greta Thunberg. She didn't go right, I'm going

1070
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,840
Speaker 2: to get onto the cover of Time magazine as the

1071
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 2: most influential person in the world. She sat outside Swedish

1072
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 2: Parliament with a piece of cardboard, you know, And so

1073
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: everybody can start where they are. You can head into

1074
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,839
Speaker 2: your canteen, you know, at you know, the morning tea

1075
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: room or something and suggest that everybody stop using takeaway

1076
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 2: coffee cups and get rid of the disposables, and you know,

1077
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: bringing a holy for secondhand marks that you bought at St.

1078
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 2: Vinnie's and suggesting what do you use those? Everybody can

1079
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 2: do something because care begets care. But look, I have

1080
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,399
Speaker 2: a little bit of a five point dot plan bring

1081
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,439
Speaker 2: it up for Australians in particular. So there's a couple

1082
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 2: of things. The first thing you can do is electrify everything.

1083
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 2: So if you have to replace anything in your house,

1084
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 2: a gas stove, a gas heater, your car and so on,

1085
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: go electric.

1086
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 3: It's the future.

1087
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 2: It'll end up saving a hell of a lot of

1088
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: money down the track and it'll save the planet. And

1089
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 2: so you'll start. Don't go and replace it unless you

1090
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: need to. But that's something that we need to bear

1091
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 2: in mind. And the future is electric.

1092
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 3: So yeah, And.

1093
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,280
Speaker 2: I've done a podcast with Saw Griffith, who's Biden's renewable

1094
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,839
Speaker 2: energy advisor and he's from Woollongong and he's his mad

1095
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 2: inventor and he explains it super well. So Saw Griffith,

1096
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 2: if anyone's interested in that. The other one I would

1097
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 2: say is don't waste food. So Project draw Down is

1098
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 2: this incredible book and project by Paul Horden where he

1099
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: basically categorizes all the things that can be done to

1100
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: reduce COEO TOO emissions, And the number three thing is

1101
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 2: half food waste. So if food waste was a nation,

1102
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: it would be the third biggest carbon emitter after China

1103
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 2: and America. So we've got to just actually, that's something

1104
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,120
Speaker 2: we can all do. And the biggest the biggest food

1105
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: wasters are consumers. They're not the supermarkets, it's not the farmers,

1106
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 2: it's us. So if we actually halved our food waste,

1107
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 2: if everyone have their food waste'd be enough food to

1108
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: feed the world. Also, it'd be the equivalent of the

1109
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 2: whole world switching to solar planels. So that is something

1110
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,800
Speaker 2: we can all get. What else I'm just trying to think,

1111
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: might have to reduce it to three and that's probably

1112
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: good for people, and odd numbers always good in the list.

1113
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 2: The next one, of course, is the election. So this election,

1114
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: which is going to be happening in May, unless Scott

1115
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,479
Speaker 2: Morrison pulls something out of the bag of tricks, it'll

1116
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: be the May fifteen or May twenty one. Is that

1117
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: what you've heard, Dad? Yeah, I think that's basically that's

1118
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 2: the only time that you know, they can announce it,

1119
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 2: given easter and city weeks and all that kind of thing.

1120
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: So it's soon.

1121
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:43,959
Speaker 2: But it's a really important election for Australia but also

1122
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: globally because it's basically a climate election.

1123
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we don't get.

1124
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 2: This right now, then we've kind of lost the race.

1125
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: So the great thing that presents itself this year this

1126
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 2: election is that there are a bunch of climate orientated

1127
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 2: independence and there's about thirty of them, but there's about

1128
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 2: twelve who will really get incumbents worried. And the great

1129
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 2: news is we only need three of them to actually

1130
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 2: get in and then they will essentially hold the balance

1131
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: of power in the House of Reps, which is the

1132
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: main house, and it's called the Lower House.

1133
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 3: It's always a bit confusing, at least for my brain,

1134
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: but the House.

1135
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,920
Speaker 2: Once there's three of those, whoever gets seen, whether it's

1136
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 2: Liberal Party or the Labor Party, they're likely to be

1137
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: a minority government and they will have to negotiate with

1138
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 2: this collective of independence who are climate orientated and so

1139
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 2: what we will see hopefully is climate integrity. So so

1140
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 2: of all that corruption stuff that's in news, the gender

1141
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 2: stuff that is not getting resolved, and of course the

1142
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: indigenous stuff. So a first, you know, a first people's

1143
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: voice to Parliament, and a bunch of other things which

1144
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: we were meant to commit on years and years ago.

1145
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 3: Those are the fourth things that I think.

1146
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: Are really destroying our sense of identity as a nation. Climate, corruption,

1147
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 2: gender and Indigenous rights. Therefore things that these independents are

1148
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 2: all campaigning on. So there's already a bunch that are

1149
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: already in So Helen Haynes from the Seat of Indie.

1150
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 2: He's incredible. Zally Stegel, who a lot of people may

1151
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: have heard of. She took down Tony Abbott. They're all women. Yes.

1152
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 2: The other thing it's really interesting. All thirty of them

1153
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 2: are women and they come from some of them a journalists, scientists, lawyers,

1154
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 2: former sports people. Got yeah, how can we So for me,

1155
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm this is politics, I'm so uneducated in and now

1156
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 2: being an American resident, I'm like, oh God, like I've

1157
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 2: got to make sure I feel But so how do

1158
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: we when we go and vote in May? You're saying,

1159
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: how do we then know which the end of it, like,

1160
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 2: how do we know who to go for? Well, I'm

1161
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 2: about to start a campaign as of next week educating

1162
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 2: on all of this. The Gratin Institute, which is this

1163
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 2: big think tank independent think tank, did a big report

1164
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: in July last year and basically said that we are

1165
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: at a policy gridlock and the only salvation we have

1166
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: is these independents. So that's where it first hit my radar.

1167
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 2: She was a little before that because I've been working

1168
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 2: with Karen Phelps when she took over the seat that

1169
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: you know we're currently sitting in here.

1170
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: What a legend.

1171
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then of course we've worked with her as well.

1172
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 2: We've got on tour with us, and then Zalie Steggle's

1173
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,959
Speaker 2: campaign as well. I quite closely because I just wanted

1174
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 2: to see Tony abbot out. But so I'm not telling

1175
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: anyone how to vote. What I'm going to do is

1176
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 2: educate people. If you care about these things, then this

1177
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,360
Speaker 2: is the direction you can take and what you can

1178
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 2: look out for and show how the preference system works.

1179
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 2: It's actually quite simple, but I think people just need

1180
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,720
Speaker 2: to know. Ye you know, please share it with me

1181
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 2: so I can share it too. I need to work

1182
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 2: with a few different people on that. And then there's

1183
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: some exciting stuff happening in the Senate as well. So

1184
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 2: Australian politics is going to have a really interesting shake

1185
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 2: up for the better. And so that's what I would

1186
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 2: say is just get a little bit more engaged than

1187
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: you normally would your election process this year because this

1188
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 2: is our last chance to get climate on the agenda

1189
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 2: and to get a two thousand and thirty commitment out

1190
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: of this government because business is gagging for it. I'm

1191
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 2: talking to all these business leaders, the Business Council of Australia,

1192
01:01:33,080 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 2: I talk to the supermarkets. They're all on board. They're

1193
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 2: all needingness to happen. Everybody's ready to go for electric vehicles.

1194
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: We need an infrastructure. We need the money that's been

1195
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 2: used to prop up coal and gas to move to

1196
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 2: these new infrastructures. So every renewable energy job right, so

1197
01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 2: for every coal job that you get rid of, it

1198
01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:57,480
Speaker 2: will actually produce four renewable energy jobs. So in terms

1199
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: of jobs and growth, when you hear people's try to

1200
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,240
Speaker 2: brain it, it's actually in favor of the new way.

1201
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 2: So it's actually a really exciting time in politics and

1202
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: Australian industry. It's just that our government hasn't caught up,

1203
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 2: so we've got to get rid of them. Please share

1204
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 2: when because I'm now, like I said, subscribe to all

1205
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 2: of your things.

1206
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: So I'll be your number one cheerleader.

1207
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:19,600
Speaker 3: Oh that's awesome.

1208
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: I will call on you for a bit of that

1209
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 2: because I'm going to be producing assets so that people

1210
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 2: like you feel that comfortable sharing them.

1211
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,640
Speaker 3: Yeah people don't, they care, but we've become.

1212
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: So removed from the totally because we've been asleep.

1213
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've been playing it cool and taken it easy,

1214
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 4: and you know, you don't stop like and I mean

1215
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 4: that in the I know, we just talked about the

1216
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 4: importance of rest and whatnot as well, but like as

1217
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 4: in you're a real force, and I mean that in.

1218
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: The best way, Like.

1219
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 2: I really I said to Lauren, I was like, she's

1220
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: like a fierce lion. Who a lion as who can

1221
01:02:56,840 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 2: just you can do some really cool stuff and you

1222
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 2: have done some really cool stuff. I'm so excited to

1223
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 2: see what's next to you. I'm literally binging your podcast

1224
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 2: catching up. So please keep doing whatever it is and

1225
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 2: I'll be a cheerleader and in your corner. So you've

1226
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: always been wonderful like that. That's very kind, and it's

1227
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 2: very nice of you to say that. I do stop.

1228
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 2: I generally collapse in a heat on a regular basis.

1229
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 2: I just go and hide people don't. I don't post

1230
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 2: Instagram posts. Yees.

1231
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah.

1232
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 2: From that corridor where I lie in the dark. Yeah. Well,

1233
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,919
Speaker 2: my friend, honestly, you've inspired me today. It's a real

1234
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: pleasure to have you on this podcast. You've been I

1235
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 2: said to Lauren, I was like, it's just been on

1236
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 2: my dream list from day dot. So this podcast is

1237
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: nearly three years old, so I'm sorry it's taken this long.

1238
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,080
Speaker 3: Now, cod none at all, not at all.

1239
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 2: I love real life one, so I'm glad it was

1240
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:48,520
Speaker 2: worth the wait to have you in real life.

1241
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: And thank you to your beautiful parents for letting.

1242
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,919
Speaker 2: Us recall got their eyes closed over there. I don't

1243
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:55,560
Speaker 2: know if they've heard much of it, but yeah, Dad's

1244
01:03:55,600 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 2: chimed in. Thank you heard every word. Thank you guys

1245
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: and dad and.

1246
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: Dad, my fellow virgo, thank you so much, Sarah.

1247
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 3: It was a wonderful way to see you again.

1248
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: I know I'm wrapped big love.

1249
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:10,960
Speaker 3: Thanks.

1250
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 2: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing.

1251
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: As always, thank you to our.

1252
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: Guests and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.

1253
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: I'm at Yamo Lollerberry. This potty my word for podcast

1254
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: is available on all streaming platforms.

1255
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape and comment,

1256
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 2: and of course spread the love.