Speaker 1: Good day, Peter, Helly here, welcome to you.
Speaker 2: Ain't seen Nothing yet the movie podcast, where I chat
Speaker 2: to a movie lover about a classic or beloved movie
Speaker 2: they haven't quite got around to watching until now. And
Speaker 2: today's guests broadcaster filmmaker Todd Sampson.
Speaker 3: Do you really think you have a chance against us?
Speaker 4: Mister cowboy?
Speaker 1: Open the pod bay doors.
Speaker 5: Hell, I'll have what she's having.
Speaker 1: Happening right now.
Speaker 5: Don't see nothing here.
Speaker 2: Todd's amson is truly a unique voice and presence on
Speaker 2: the Australian and that global TV landscape. Born in Ontario, Canada,
Speaker 2: Todd made his way to Australia buy Our South Africa
Speaker 2: and became the CEO of advertising giant Leo Burnette Australia.
Speaker 1: It's this that lands.
Speaker 2: Todd on this weird little show called The Gruin Transfer
Speaker 2: with that good mate Will Anderson and Russell Howkraft, a
Speaker 2: show that takes a deep yet entertaining look into the
Speaker 2: world of advertising. Todd becomes the breakout star of the show.
Speaker 2: And before you email me, Will Anderson was already a
Speaker 2: star before Ruin, So that's what I'm saying. Todd was
Speaker 2: the breakout star. Okay, they want any fights, and Russell
Speaker 2: is awesome too. Todd is intelligent, fun, his observation always nuanced.
Speaker 2: Todd co created earth Hour, which I did not know
Speaker 2: I've been majoring for years.
Speaker 1: I did not know my mate Cokoreer.
Speaker 2: Earth Hour one of the biggest environmental initiatives ever, preaching
Speaker 2: five and a half billion people around the world.
Speaker 1: Todd has climbed.
Speaker 2: Everest's Bloody Well climbed Everest. He's even scored a role
Speaker 2: an acting role in the hit movie Lion Incredible. In
Speaker 2: more recent years, Todd has been scoring big as a
Speaker 2: filmmaker with his doco series where he puts himself in
Speaker 2: insane situations like there are times I had to say
Speaker 2: to him, mate, to take care of you so please.
Speaker 2: You make me nervous just to come home safe. He
Speaker 2: is like the bear Grills, but with a more kind
Speaker 2: of sciencey approach. From readers on My Brain to Todd
Speaker 2: Samson's Body Hack, they often extremely confronting the watch and.
Speaker 1: His news series Merror Mirror Loved.
Speaker 2: To Hate maybe his most terrifying one yet, because it
Speaker 2: looks at how screens are impacting our lives, our homes,
Speaker 2: and our brains. It is must watch started on Monday.
Speaker 2: Please watch it, not just because my friends aren't doing
Speaker 2: my show, but it's actually important television. I got to
Speaker 2: know Todd because for a few years he was a
Speaker 2: regular on the Project, and I love hanging out with him.
Speaker 2: I loved every time he was on. Todd someone who
Speaker 2: he never takes himself too seriously. He's abundantly curious and
Speaker 2: I'm bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.
Speaker 3: Hi there, My name is Todd Sampson. My three favorite
Speaker 3: movies are Apocalypse Now.
Speaker 6: Charging a man with murder in this place was like
Speaker 6: handing out speeding tickets at the Indy five hundred.
Speaker 3: Out of Africa, Ruislip Maidens, light Footland and Garden State.
Speaker 7: You gotta go bury this hamster for the dogs.
Speaker 8: E don't my help.
Speaker 3: And up until up until last week, I hadn't seen
Speaker 3: the Shawshank redemption.
Speaker 9: Rule number one, no blasphemy. I'll not have the lord's
Speaker 9: name taken in vain in my prison. The other rules
Speaker 9: you'll figure out as you go along. Any questions, when
Speaker 9: do we eat.
Speaker 6: You eat when we say you eat, shit when we
Speaker 6: say you shit, and you piss when.
Speaker 1: We say you pissed, You got that you make it.
Speaker 10: Take motherfucker.
Speaker 1: On your feet.
Speaker 9: I believe in two things, discipline and the Bible. Here
Speaker 9: you'll receive both. Put your trust in the Lord. Your
Speaker 9: ass belongs to me. Welcome to Shawshank, Welcome to show Shank.
Speaker 2: In the it's time to get busy living or get
Speaker 2: busy dying. In Frank Darabun's adaptation of Stephen King's novel
Speaker 2: Rita Hayworth and The Shawshank Redemption, It's nineteen forty seven
Speaker 2: and main banker Andy Dufrain has been found guilty of
Speaker 2: a double murder his wife and the golf pro she
Speaker 2: was well, let's just say they were playing around in
Speaker 2: the rough. A mild and measured. Andy gets sent the
Speaker 2: Shawshank Prison, housing some of the most violent criminals in
Speaker 2: the state, as well as old Golden Thomson is himself
Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman, who plays Red, the only guilty man in
Speaker 2: shaw Shank. From there they form a bond that for
Speaker 2: many movie lovers, especially for some reason footballers, it is
Speaker 2: the backbone of one of the greatest movies in movie history.
Speaker 2: It's rated number one in IMDb's Greatest Ever list, ahead
Speaker 2: of Godfather Part two and The Dark Knight. A genuine
Speaker 2: flop upon release, it made seventy million up a twenty
Speaker 2: five million budget, but then, amazingly it was nominated for
Speaker 2: seven Academy Awards, Tim Robbins, missing Outland and No. Surprisingly,
Speaker 2: the movie, however, does not win a single one. Redemption
Speaker 2: is a classic movie about hope, how it could be
Speaker 2: both dangerous and life saving. Todd Samson, Have you crawled
Speaker 2: through a tunnel of shit to be with me today?
Speaker 3: You haven't listening to listening to explain it. It's an
Speaker 3: indictment on me that I hadn't seen it until six
Speaker 3: days ago.
Speaker 2: Well, i'd be really well, this is one of the
Speaker 2: movies that gets requested a lot, and the reason we
Speaker 2: haven't done it up until now, when it's one hundred
Speaker 2: episodes in now everyone kind of has seen it.
Speaker 1: It rarely comes up your first.
Speaker 2: I think that, and that's why I jumped on, And
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a perfect film, and I
Speaker 2: kind of thought you would like it. We'll get to
Speaker 2: that soon. But it's it's so revered, it's it's so lovely.
Speaker 2: It is in the conversation of the greatest film ever.
Speaker 2: Now again, we'll get we'll get to your your thoughts
Speaker 2: on that, but it's much loved and why hadn't you
Speaker 2: seen it like as it did?
Speaker 1: It just not speak excuse.
Speaker 3: I guess my excuse at the time when I try
Speaker 3: to think back to, you know, nineteen four.
Speaker 2: And then it kind of explodes in ninety five on videos.
Speaker 3: So I think I was probably and maybe I still
Speaker 3: have now sort of swept up in many populous movies
Speaker 3: and this wasn't so. All I remember reading were the
Speaker 3: crip reviews when it came out, saying it's not that good,
Speaker 3: it's boring. And I guess for me, cinema has It's
Speaker 3: been a huge part of my license since I was
Speaker 3: a child, but it's escaped for me, and I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to waste that precious time that I
Speaker 3: use in the cinema for a movie that people are
Speaker 3: saying it's not good. Wow, what a mistake.
Speaker 1: That was, Morgan Freeman.
Speaker 2: It believes that one of the reasons it wasn't a
Speaker 2: hit on release was a nine that people couldn't couldn't
Speaker 2: get their heads around a name, which I think you know,
Speaker 2: and you're a perfect person to ask about this with
Speaker 2: your with your background, that it is really important, isn't
Speaker 2: it Like when you see and you love the Shaw
Speaker 2: Shank Redemption, it makes complete and there's a great title
Speaker 2: after the fact, But when you're when you know nothing
Speaker 2: about a film and you're looking at it and kind
Speaker 2: of going, what what's shaw Shank?
Speaker 1: What's what does that mean?
Speaker 2: And Morgan Freeman with how people say I saw this
Speaker 2: movie Scrimshaw Resolution and they just couldn't get it in
Speaker 2: their heads. It didn't float. Is that How big a
Speaker 2: factory is that?
Speaker 3: Well that would have been a major part of it
Speaker 3: for me as well. So you really only have three
Speaker 3: things when it first starts. You have the name. You
Speaker 3: have that the actors who are the brands themselves, and
Speaker 3: then you have the reviews if you glance upon and
Speaker 3: look at a review. And so for me, I wasn't
Speaker 3: a massive Jim Robley's fan, so it's not like I was,
Speaker 3: you know, wanting to see comps he was in. So
Speaker 3: it failed on all three. From me, Yeah, I was like, Okay,
Speaker 3: well the name, I don't I sort of get another
Speaker 3: prison Break film? You know, I've seen him before, you know.
Speaker 3: And then and the main character I was like, I
Speaker 3: mean I loved Morgan Freeman, but I thought he was
Speaker 3: a sub character in it. I assumed, uh, And and
Speaker 3: then of course the reviews were like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: you might be wasting your time, you might fall asleep
Speaker 3: in the cinema.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know what's interesting about that about about
Speaker 3: the pacing? Right, So, so now watching it now in
Speaker 3: this kind of crazy tech, you know, low attention span
Speaker 3: world that we live in, it was interesting challenge to
Speaker 3: watch this film because it has this sort of languid pacing.
Speaker 3: It's not there to pump it at you, you know,
Speaker 3: the when some directors use this every three minute thing.
Speaker 3: So every three minute there's some kind of change or
Speaker 3: action to keep you on and on and on and
Speaker 3: reversals and reversals. This has a lot of reversals, but
Speaker 3: it's slow, and it really he is. I could see
Speaker 3: why now has become popular, but I could also see
Speaker 3: why there would be a generation to people that would
Speaker 3: struggle to actually get through it when they can only
Speaker 3: look at stuff on TikTok for thirty seconds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's that's why Morgan Freeman's voiceover is so
Speaker 2: important in this. It's it's and lots of people have
Speaker 2: different opinions on where the voiceover is lazy. I think
Speaker 2: this is one of the really good examples of it working.
Speaker 2: But set it does set a tone like you really
Speaker 2: do need to settle in and watch your shape, particularly
Speaker 2: for the first you know time, and maybe the second
Speaker 2: or third time, and then you know, it becomes one
Speaker 2: of those movies if you do love and if you
Speaker 2: do respond to it, that if it's on TV, you just.
Speaker 1: Need to watch it.
Speaker 2: If if Andy Dufrain's you know plan is about to
Speaker 2: be you know, announced to the viewers, you need to
Speaker 2: need a scene no matter how many times you've seen
Speaker 2: the film. We're going to get to it very soon
Speaker 2: because I really want to know all your thoughts on it.
Speaker 2: But let's talk about your three favorite films. Let's over
Speaker 2: Apocalypse now. Dero joy Singer did this on our podcast.
Speaker 2: I watched it for that episode without having seen it
Speaker 2: for a while, and I watched I think we watched
Speaker 2: the kind of recent the redo on it. I mean,
Speaker 2: the ambition is there for everybody to see in that film. He's,
Speaker 2: you know, famously a troubled shoot. Nothing with nothing was easy,
Speaker 2: but what a glorious looking picture and still it's still
Speaker 2: just looks like it could have been made last week.
Speaker 3: As inside I was when I was thinking about the
Speaker 3: three films that I enjoy or films that my favorite
Speaker 3: that had impacted me in childhood for that time period,
Speaker 3: it was between that and Debbie Does Dallas. But I
Speaker 3: thought us cutting Debbie Does Dallas as a promo, are
Speaker 3: working on it together, and this wouldn't work well. But
Speaker 3: that had a massive impact on me as a child.
Speaker 2: But if you want to put Debbie does Dallas in,
Speaker 2: nobody has put w does Dallas.
Speaker 1: He'll be the first one.
Speaker 3: I remember shoving shoving the VHS in the recorder and
Speaker 3: sitting back and with all my friends in the basement
Speaker 3: of my friend's house and going, this is going to
Speaker 3: be great. And then I also remember, like sort of
Speaker 3: halfway through the film, feeling slightly uncomfortable that I was
Speaker 3: sitting around with a whole bunch of blogs with baseball
Speaker 3: caps and beer watching Debbie dost Downs. Anyway, let's move
Speaker 3: on to.
Speaker 1: Now before you do.
Speaker 2: Before you do, because I had a very weirdly similar experience,
Speaker 2: not necessarily Debbie Does Dallas, but I remember somebody in
Speaker 2: our street. I've got my brother Mark, he's four years older,
Speaker 2: and it wasn't him. But somebody in the street got
Speaker 2: a porno, you know, VHS porno, probably from the local
Speaker 2: milk bar, you know, you know, yes, under the counter,
Speaker 2: you know, he could supply with one, and and so
Speaker 2: they brought it to our house because both our parents
Speaker 2: were working, they wouldn't be home for you know, a
Speaker 2: few hours, and all of a sudden, like you're supposed
Speaker 2: to be. I only found out because I was like,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And because there's a few my brother
Speaker 2: had a few mates. O, I know what's going on here?
Speaker 2: And he had to tell me obviously, because you know.
Speaker 1: He had to explain it to me. So yeah, so
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 2: All of all I remember was like then it's not
Speaker 2: word got out, and then like people, people I've never
Speaker 2: seen before started coming over to watch this porn. I
Speaker 2: must have been like maybe fourteen maybe, And I remember
Speaker 2: we had a table tennis set up and people are
Speaker 2: lying on the table tennis table watching in bean bags.
Speaker 3: It's watching this most influential movies of all time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen Debbie does Dallas, but it did
Speaker 2: become certainly the the kind of reference point for pawn
Speaker 2: and like a big, a big kind of comedic reference point.
Speaker 2: As well, like if you met somebody called Debbie, like
Speaker 2: your mind or often went, oh, you've been to Dallas,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I.
Speaker 3: Mean, there's no Oscars being awarded to Debbie does Dallas.
Speaker 1: No, No, sadly, sadly.
Speaker 3: It rarely gets reviewed on podcasts rarely.
Speaker 2: This could be the first time, this could be the
Speaker 2: first time. But you want to talk about apocalypse now,
Speaker 2: so let's go back to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was something when I was young about the
Speaker 3: that I enjoyed about the journey of darkness, Like I'll
Speaker 3: never forget them going in that dark, like it's it's
Speaker 3: night time and they're on the ship and they're going
Speaker 3: And I also really love the inner dialogues, like I
Speaker 3: love movies that play out the thoughts and and and
Speaker 3: are written cleverly and smartly, and you know, and you
Speaker 3: get to kind of go, oh, he's going through and
Speaker 3: then when he arrives and you know, and Brando is there,
Speaker 3: and it's just, I don't know, it doesn't get better
Speaker 3: when the helicopter when they're doing the concert and the
Speaker 3: helicopter company, and I mean, it's just it's a phenomenal film.
Speaker 3: And and uh, if you're a film lover, and you
Speaker 3: haven't seen that, well you're like me not having seen
Speaker 3: I recommend checking out Apocalypse Now. But as you said,
Speaker 3: stands at testa time, like you could run that film
Speaker 3: now in a cinema and you would get huge I mean,
Speaker 3: there are obviously diehards, but if you hadn't seen it before,
Speaker 3: like it would be a film that you'd go, Wow,
Speaker 3: that's brilliantly made, it's brilliantly paced. It's the music is sensational,
Speaker 3: the characters are well developed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's what's going about rewatching Apocalypse Now is
Speaker 2: there are so many things that are happening in the
Speaker 2: background or some of those shots, so something like that,
Speaker 2: there's helicopter crashes and this shit going on in these villages,
Speaker 2: you know, in Vietnam, and you're like, what is it like?
Speaker 2: And it's and with the first time you watch it,
Speaker 2: you might be focusing on the foreground. But if you
Speaker 2: go back and watch it and you're concentrate.
Speaker 1: A little bit on the on the background, like he's
Speaker 1: using the entire frame every single time.
Speaker 3: That's right. And you know, then of course you can
Speaker 3: watch out the Darkness, you can watch the making of
Speaker 3: you can see when you see that then you realize
Speaker 3: that the making is its own movie. You know, it's
Speaker 3: it's like a phenomenal the things that happened. And yeah,
Speaker 3: so that that that will go down as one of
Speaker 3: my favorite films of all time.
Speaker 2: And also astonishing Todd that he's doing this with that
Speaker 2: not only does he not have playback in the moment,
Speaker 2: like they're shooting on film obviously in the seventies, so
Speaker 2: he doesn't have playback, but he's not even seen the
Speaker 2: rushes until he gets back to America, like and so
Speaker 2: to have that and to deliver such a beautiful looking
Speaker 2: film with the performances as great as they are is
Speaker 2: an astonishing feat.
Speaker 3: And no real reliance on visual effects. Now everything is done.
Speaker 3: I mean they're they're shooting up the land, they're blowing
Speaker 3: up this there. He only got one shot at that.
Speaker 3: Then nothing's gone, like and then you got to rebuild
Speaker 3: and do it all again. It's yeah, it's and and
Speaker 3: you know, he is such the director is such a character.
Speaker 3: I mean he's like, you know, the stories of what
Speaker 3: happened on the set and Brando getting pissed off and
Speaker 3: walking off and not one again the film Dennis hof
Speaker 3: I mean, you just couldn't have put a more eclectic
Speaker 3: cast together, like basically putting them on an island and
Speaker 3: saying good luck making this film, and they're all at
Speaker 3: each other and.
Speaker 2: Well, what was already going to be a very difficult
Speaker 2: film to make and the tricky film to make, and
Speaker 2: with the challenges that they had. Yeah, the fact that
Speaker 2: there was so much misbehavior and drug use and health
Speaker 2: crisis on that set was amazing. Usually that film ends
Speaker 2: up being like The Island of Doctor Monroe or something
Speaker 2: like that. The fact that it's a film that comes
Speaker 2: up constantly in people's top three films is incredible.
Speaker 1: It's incredible.
Speaker 2: Out of Africa. I don't like it when this happens.
Speaker 2: But I haven't seen it, and you haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: I've not seen Out of Africa, And well, I don't
Speaker 2: remember seeing it. I may have walked through the rumpus
Speaker 2: room while mum was watching it one night. I kind
Speaker 2: of have like the aesthetic, you know, and I can
Speaker 2: kind of see it in a way, but I don't
Speaker 2: remember watching it.
Speaker 3: No. Yeah, So I grew up in a small town
Speaker 3: in Sydney, Cape Brighton Island on the East coast of Canada,
Speaker 3: and I spent my whole time, wanting to be somewhere else,
Speaker 3: you know, wanting to explore the world. My parents never
Speaker 3: went to school, so their horizons were very very narrow short,
Speaker 3: you know. And when this movie came out, so park
Speaker 3: the obvious issues with colonialism, you know that this movie
Speaker 3: talks about and demonstrates in many ways. I'd not really
Speaker 3: thought about Africa as a place for me to visit
Speaker 3: and want to go to, but when I watched that film,
Speaker 3: there is nothing I wanted more than to go to Africa.
Speaker 3: And I ended up living there for six years and
Speaker 3: traveling throughout and climbing throughout, and I've now brought my
Speaker 3: kids back three times. It is such a major, major,
Speaker 3: major part of my life, and I can pinpoint the
Speaker 3: seed to that film. So Africa itself is a character
Speaker 3: in that film is extraordinary. The music, which I now
Speaker 3: play myself and piano and things. I love the soundtrack
Speaker 3: of that. And maybe it's my own issues with intimacy,
Speaker 3: but I'm a sucker for love stories. I always had
Speaker 3: my wife's like, she refuses to go cinema to a
Speaker 3: love story. She's dystopian love stories, right, And Robert Redford
Speaker 3: and Meryl Street, Yeah, it doesn't get better than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that's amazing. It's amazing that. And we've
Speaker 2: had lots of people who have come on the show
Speaker 2: and spoken about why their favorite films.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it is just because it's it's awesome, you.
Speaker 2: Know, but there has been a handful of times where
Speaker 2: people have been able to pinpoint the influence a movie
Speaker 2: has had. So for you to nominate Out of Africa
Speaker 2: as a life changing thing in a way where it
Speaker 2: opened the door to a part of the world that
Speaker 2: you'd never considered going to and you ended up living
Speaker 2: there for half a decade.
Speaker 3: Yeah, then I went to Karen Blixen's house. I ended
Speaker 3: up going to her house, the person who wrote it,
Speaker 3: you know, the book and because it is it's an
Speaker 3: autobiography really, and I went to her house. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: was a it was a moment in my life where
Speaker 3: I watched that movie and it bumped me into a
Speaker 3: different direction. Now you could argue for me the same
Speaker 3: thing when Greece came out. I didn't put it because
Speaker 3: I'm embarrassed to put it down on the list, but
Speaker 3: on this on the exact same note, Greece, on some
Speaker 3: kind of subconscious level, dramatically changed my life. I remember
Speaker 3: I watched that and knew very little. I wasn't the Hogan,
Speaker 3: you know in Canada. I wasn't like Paul Hogan watching Crocodilder.
Speaker 3: I saw Greece, and I saw living in John and
Speaker 3: I remember thinking Australia like it was the first time
Speaker 3: the flag was placed in my head. And you know,
Speaker 3: all the cliches and stereotypes that came with her character,
Speaker 3: but it was the first time that the flag was
Speaker 3: placed in my head. That alien might be an interesting
Speaker 3: place for me to visit on my journey as a
Speaker 3: kid who's hiding away in the cinema, you know, trying
Speaker 3: to escape my volatile home life in the dark room,
Speaker 3: trying to be alone with other people. I watched that
Speaker 3: seven times. That and Empire Striped Back. I watched Greece
Speaker 3: seven times. My grandma used to clean the floors, and
Speaker 3: it was seventy five cents to get into the cinema,
Speaker 3: and my grandma used to clean the floors. So whenever
Speaker 3: she worked the weekend she worked, she would wedge the
Speaker 3: bottom door of the exit and I would sneak around,
Speaker 3: go in through the wedge door and just sit basically
Speaker 3: in the front row and just crouch and I would
Speaker 3: watch whatever it would come up. And I remember I
Speaker 3: was targeting Greece like an empire strikes back, but I
Speaker 3: was targeting Greece. I was like, Okay, I want to
Speaker 3: see this, Grandma, can you wedge it for these showings?
Speaker 3: And she would try her best.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that story. Can you wedge it? Grandma?
Speaker 1: I mean that's a chatter in your memo ass some
Speaker 1: way that is? That is amazing. Where I thought you
Speaker 1: were going with Greece was I mean Greece kind of
Speaker 1: and I love Greece.
Speaker 2: Greece would be in my top ten, like as far
Speaker 2: as like and it's maybe one of the films I've seen,
Speaker 2: you know that Star Wars and the Sound of Music,
Speaker 2: as far as maybe the films I've seen the most.
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, I don't put three those three films in
Speaker 2: my top three, but they're they're definitely my top ten.
Speaker 2: And I thought where you were going with Greece was
Speaker 2: it opened this idea of American high schools, because that's
Speaker 2: what it did for me. I was like, American high
Speaker 2: schools seem kind of fun, even though you know, you
Speaker 2: actually think about there's a whole lot of shit going
Speaker 2: on that's not fun in that film and most American
Speaker 2: high schools, but there's this we did have this in Australia.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure how different Canadian schools were, but the
Speaker 2: way the cafeterias worked. Became a little bit obsessed with
Speaker 2: the way American high schools function, and and the clicks
Speaker 2: and the and the cafeterias and the you know, the
Speaker 2: cheerleaders and you know that the football teams and I
Speaker 2: don't know, it was something even like the yeah, the
Speaker 2: letthermon jackets and stuff. It was there's something about the
Speaker 2: red caps that they alway seemed to drink out of
Speaker 2: at parties. You know, there's something that that seemed really cool,
Speaker 2: even though as an adult you kind of a lot
Speaker 2: of those things aren't cool. There's I think, you know,
Speaker 2: clicks aren't cool. You know, like eating ship food off
Speaker 2: a tray is not cool. But yeah, it was one
Speaker 2: of those things. And I think I think Greece was
Speaker 2: probably the first one I saw which I thought American
Speaker 2: high schools.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Well that is the difference, right, so that
Speaker 3: in Australia you would look to that and look to
Speaker 3: that with interest Canada. You look to that with disdain,
Speaker 3: not because it's bad, but just because it's American. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so no, I gravitated towards oliving it in John and
Speaker 3: that and that I'd never seen crocodile dundee, So I
Speaker 3: had no idea what everyone else was talking about in
Speaker 3: Canada because that's the only thing they knew of when
Speaker 3: it came to Australia, and that nothing else zero. And
Speaker 3: I lived in Sydney, Nova Scotia, Canada. The arc of life, right,
Speaker 3: and I've lived twenty twenty six years in Sydney, Australia.
Speaker 3: But all on my flag was her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you obviously sadly passed away this year? Did
Speaker 2: you ever meet her? No, would have been a pretty
Speaker 2: amazing thing to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, too shy, you know, you know who I am,
Speaker 3: right too, in Like I would never go out of
Speaker 3: my way to track her down. Yeah, but I followed her,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like I kind of tracked
Speaker 3: what she did and you know, not that she would
Speaker 3: care that she had an influence in my life, but
Speaker 3: definitely bumped me, you know, she definitely bumped me on
Speaker 3: a track, just like Meryl Street bumped me on the track.
Speaker 3: For Africa. She bought me on that track for Australia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. I got to meet her a few
Speaker 1: times and she was so lovely, as lovely as you
Speaker 1: would possibly want. And if you had told her that story,
Speaker 1: she would have would have touched her. I'm absolutely sure
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Gardenstite is a wonderful film, an indie film Zach Braff
Speaker 2: and Natalie Portman.
Speaker 3: Yeah I did not so I okay. So the plot
Speaker 3: is a very is a parallel plot to my life.
Speaker 3: You know, boy with not much, you know, goes off
Speaker 3: to the world and then ends up heaving to come
Speaker 3: home to. In my case, it was kind of reversed
Speaker 3: because my mother was an addict, so I was. My
Speaker 3: father was depressed, so I was kind of living. I
Speaker 3: was coming home to that world. And I'll never forget seen.
Speaker 3: And this is the reason. And it's a total emotional thing.
Speaker 3: It's nothing to do with what it was actually about,
Speaker 3: because I can't quite remember the details of it. When
Speaker 3: he's standing on the van in the hole and he
Speaker 3: screams and he just screams and screams and screams and
Speaker 3: is crying. I was. Every time I see that, I
Speaker 3: cry and so that puts it in my top three.
Speaker 3: And I know it's a recent film, it's an indie film,
Speaker 3: but and Zach Braf is not everyone's cup of tea.
Speaker 3: But for some reason this it's beautifully shot as well.
Speaker 3: And for some reason this that it moved me.
Speaker 2: So is that is that? Is that like that moment
Speaker 2: is at the moment that moment puts it in your
Speaker 2: top three?
Speaker 1: Or like?
Speaker 2: Is it justly enjoyed the entire film? And I forgot God,
Speaker 2: I remember seeing when it came out, and I really
Speaker 2: enjoyed it, and I remember buying on DVD, but I
Speaker 2: think I've only watched it maybe once since then, And
Speaker 2: and I would even kind of, you know, forget exactly
Speaker 2: what it was about. Like you described it briefly about
Speaker 2: you know, him having to come back and things having
Speaker 2: worked out. I remember Natalie Portman wearing headphones in a
Speaker 2: waiting room. I remember that scene you're talking about, and
Speaker 2: I remember really enjoying it, and then I'm talking about it.
Speaker 2: I really would like to go back and watch it soon.
Speaker 2: But is it one of those things where that scene
Speaker 2: that you speaker with the yelling on the van elevates
Speaker 2: it to a point where it's like, yeah, this is
Speaker 2: this is my top three.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think for me, I'm drawn to three kind
Speaker 3: of types of movies. One is escapist as best I can,
Speaker 3: like Star Wars is the ultimate example for me. Yeah,
Speaker 3: just leaving the Planet. I'm drawn to As I mentioned,
Speaker 3: love stories. I think it's to deal with my own
Speaker 3: issues with intimacy. So I like to watch other people
Speaker 3: play it out and wish I was then. So I've
Speaker 3: drawn to that that as well. But I'm also drawn
Speaker 3: to stories that in some way parallel my own life
Speaker 3: and experience. And that was one of the first ones
Speaker 3: that I watched that was a kind of more contemporary
Speaker 3: film that I went something, I went, that's me. That
Speaker 3: sounds incredibly narcissistic, but I watched it and went, that's
Speaker 3: kind of my life in a way, not exactly kind of,
Speaker 3: but it was. And so I related to that. And
Speaker 3: then when we hit that moment came screaming on the
Speaker 3: top in the rain and crying and she's holding him.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it just it just moved me. And
Speaker 3: so when you said what are your top three films?
Speaker 3: I didn't overly think it. I just went, what are
Speaker 3: the films that have really moved me, and for some
Speaker 3: reason that one did.
Speaker 2: And that's what you're trying to do as a writer
Speaker 2: and the director then and the actors are trying to
Speaker 2: create something where the audience can see themselves somewhere in
Speaker 2: that film. And I think that's that's a very powerful thing.
Speaker 2: And that's what I think everyone's trying to achieve when
Speaker 2: they said that to make a film.
Speaker 1: So I love, I love all those three films.
Speaker 2: About discussing all those three films with you, excellent choices. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: let's get into it. This is a massive film. This
Speaker 2: is right up there. It is a much loved film.
Speaker 2: Like I said, number one on IMDb's All Time. It
Speaker 2: was the most highest rented video of nineteen ninety five,
Speaker 2: which which kind of helped after The Flopper kind of
Speaker 2: more people saw it on video and DV they and
Speaker 2: now streaming, I guess, and they sort of cinema upon
Speaker 2: its initial release, and he's the most replayed film on
Speaker 2: American TV still to this day. Todd Sampson, did you
Speaker 2: enjoy Frank Darabout's show Shack Redemption, based in a book
Speaker 2: by Stephen King?
Speaker 3: It was wonderful and mesmerizing, Yes, And it was it.
Speaker 3: The fact that it was so good made me feel
Speaker 3: so self conscious that I hadn't seen it, and as
Speaker 3: someone who makes films right now for a living, I
Speaker 3: tend to I struggled to stop looking at the how
Speaker 3: you know, how things are done in the pacing and
Speaker 3: the music and the shots and where they're wide or
Speaker 3: they're clothes where they you know. But with this film
Speaker 3: you you get all of that. But the genius of
Speaker 3: the director, in my mind, is that he sets this
Speaker 3: pacing in a kind of closed space, so he lets
Speaker 3: the characters lure you into their lives. He does a
Speaker 3: few reversals so you don't quite know where you're going,
Speaker 3: but it feels like you're in a box with them,
Speaker 3: and I love that intimacy. And you think it's two
Speaker 3: and a half hours or whatever it was, so when
Speaker 3: the time's over, you're like, wow, I just did twenty
Speaker 3: years in two and a half hours, because it's a
Speaker 3: twenty year span of their lives. You know, it's and
Speaker 3: everything from the the fact that the main character, Tim
Speaker 3: Robins is not the main character, the way he did
Speaker 3: that by using Morgan Freeman to narrate the reason we
Speaker 3: associate and like Tim or Andy's because of Morgan and
Speaker 3: his interpretation of that world, which I thought, you got
Speaker 3: two outstanding actors, but the way they used more Morgan Freeman,
Speaker 3: I thought, and and again the sparsness of it. So
Speaker 3: they mute all the colors. It's all gray, and then
Speaker 3: music wise they kind of strip. They use some great
Speaker 3: musical moments, but the majority of the music is that
Speaker 3: sort of soothing, melodic voice of Morgan Freeman, which holds
Speaker 3: you for two hours easily. Yeah, sensational film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you're right about feeling like you're in there,
Speaker 2: and the clustophobia of it and the colors, the grayness
Speaker 2: of shaw Shank because every times have you noticed this
Speaker 2: is probably something you know they one notice in their
Speaker 2: second or third viewing, But when you whenever you see
Speaker 2: out outside of shaw Shanks, sometimes you're shooting from chaw Shank.
Speaker 2: But when a good example is when Andy's being held
Speaker 2: over the ledge when they're before they start drinking beers.
Speaker 1: And we'll get to that scene soon.
Speaker 2: But it's always green grass on the other side, it's
Speaker 2: always great. The grass is always greener, and it's just
Speaker 2: such a beautiful little to and there's lots of those
Speaker 2: little touches or all the way through. Well, it's talk
Speaker 2: about like when we when we first meet Andy obviously,
Speaker 2: and I think also it's it's it's clever that they're
Speaker 2: going to get into it in a pretty kind of
Speaker 2: juicy kind of way. There's this guy who's you know,
Speaker 2: uhasically basically being charged with double murder. He's you know
Speaker 2: that his wife's having sex with the golf pro. It's
Speaker 2: you know, it grabs your attention, even though it's not
Speaker 2: necessarily you know, cut like really fast, and it's not
Speaker 2: like over the top, and it's it's you are drawn in.
Speaker 1: You are drawn in.
Speaker 2: You can go, Okay, this is is this our protagonist?
Speaker 2: Is this somebody who's do you think Andy was was guilty?
Speaker 2: You think possibly is? You know because in a way,
Speaker 2: when I mean when I first watched it, in the
Speaker 2: first few times I watched it, I was always like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: maybe he is guilty, Like and then I the more
Speaker 2: I watched it, and in the odder I get I
Speaker 2: kind of see the reasons why he wouldn't be guilty,
Speaker 2: not just from a story point of view, but also
Speaker 2: there's things like you know, like yes that they say
Speaker 2: they're his fingerprints on the on the on the the
Speaker 2: bottle of bourbon that was left behind, and then and
Speaker 2: the bullet casings.
Speaker 1: But there was no book.
Speaker 2: There's no fingerprints on the actual crime like that were
Speaker 2: in the you know, in the cabin where they were killed.
Speaker 2: There were no fingerprints on door handles or anything like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that'surely that would have come out. There's no footprints leading
Speaker 2: from the car to the you know, to the cabin.
Speaker 1: There's things like that. You're going to go, well, come on, Lauries,
Speaker 1: do your jobs.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean it's deceptive, isn't it. So the judge
Speaker 3: sets them up. So the judge so again unfortunately think
Speaker 3: thinking about the what as someone who makes films, I
Speaker 3: knew there would be an arc for him, But what
Speaker 3: I thought was deceptive was redemption. So you immediately think, Okay,
Speaker 3: he did it, and he's going to reneem himself in
Speaker 3: the film. But it's completely not what's about to happen.
Speaker 3: And I kind of had a hint to that obviously
Speaker 3: when he just went the Like the first lines that
Speaker 3: come onto the film are the judge, you know, condemning
Speaker 3: it and saying you seem like a cold hearted, you know,
Speaker 3: kill it. Basically that's what the judge says to him.
Speaker 3: And what the restraint of Tim Robbins in the film
Speaker 3: is incredible, And what you don't know at that moment,
Speaker 3: just that sort of introverted, thoughtful, shy, restrained character would
Speaker 3: be the tone of the whole film. You don't know
Speaker 3: that then, and then you realize that he himself is
Speaker 3: a kind of in his own way, a kind of
Speaker 3: metaphor for the filmmakers the whole film, you know, because
Speaker 3: it all existed like that in the gray world, in
Speaker 3: a subtle world, and you know, every once in a
Speaker 3: while there'll be some sharp moments like the sisters and
Speaker 3: rape or abuse, but the majority of the time you're
Speaker 3: sort of just following this character who is not really
Speaker 3: coming out. He's staying in and so you normally think
Speaker 3: in an arc he's going to come out and be
Speaker 3: something else. He doesn't really, he still stays within his comfines. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I had a feeling he was going to be
Speaker 3: innocent because I thought, Okay, there's going to be an arc.
Speaker 3: They started so hard that clearly you know that can't
Speaker 3: be it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you still there is still an element of, well,
Speaker 2: this is the little guy who was planning on killing
Speaker 2: his wife, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's still pretty murky.
Speaker 2: Like you know, we spoke a lot about seventies films
Speaker 2: and how they're more comfortable in making their protagonists a
Speaker 2: bit grayer, you know, and playing in those gray areas
Speaker 2: of their own moral codes. With films these days, you
Speaker 2: tend to have even though the rise of the anti hero,
Speaker 2: you know, has certainly been refreshing, but they tend to
Speaker 2: keep the protagonists in pretty clear spaces, even if they
Speaker 2: if they make him murky early on, they always make
Speaker 2: sure it's it's clear that that was we were mistaken earlier,
Speaker 2: where where the fact is Andy was in a car
Speaker 2: loading a gun, preparing to kill his wife and her lover,
Speaker 2: and that is irrefutable.
Speaker 3: Yes, so and then and that that seat of doubt
Speaker 3: has placed early, you know, and that's how it all.
Speaker 3: And so you are thinking, and when he shows up
Speaker 3: at the prison and he's stunk hold, you start to
Speaker 3: think stone Kong killer. You know, you don't think that
Speaker 3: there's anything positive in his nature. You think that okay, wait,
Speaker 3: now you feel for him when he comes through. But
Speaker 3: I mean the whole thing with they're taking bets on
Speaker 3: who's going to crack first? Is just incredible.
Speaker 2: Like it's as soon as I saw a character called
Speaker 2: feed Ass or something, I thought, it's gonna be hum.
Speaker 2: He's gonna of course, the fat guy's going to break first.
Speaker 2: What always happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his arrival as a hero, I think. I just
Speaker 3: love the switcher room, Like I love that he is
Speaker 3: the protagonist. But Red, you could argue, is this big
Speaker 3: or bigger a character? In fact? In fact, Andy's character
Speaker 3: is told through him, you know, so it's his interpretation
Speaker 3: of it. I do think, you know, Morgan Freeman got
Speaker 3: nominated for Best Sporting Actor and Tim Rumms didn't. And
Speaker 3: I do think there's a bit of a crime in
Speaker 3: that because it was the culmination of the two of
Speaker 3: them that made that film. But I sort of get,
Speaker 3: I sort of get how Morgan Freeman would get disproportionate
Speaker 3: amount of accolades and recognition for that film because of
Speaker 3: the way the director twisted the storytelling.
Speaker 1: You and what did you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's away the friendship because this is what I
Speaker 2: think is white people love this film, you know, And
Speaker 2: I was kind of thinking about going something we talk
Speaker 2: a lot about is you know, comedy and drama and
Speaker 2: is it a comedy or is the drum I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that anybody says Shaw Shanks a comedy at all,
Speaker 2: but in fact it's it doesn't have many laughs in
Speaker 2: it at all. But what it does to have, I
Speaker 2: think is an ability to make you smile. Well, I
Speaker 2: think I find myself I smile a lot when I'm
Speaker 2: watching Shawshank. I'm not sure if I have a laugh,
Speaker 2: but I smile a lot. And that's we don't really
Speaker 2: talk about that. Yeah, it's either make them laugh or
Speaker 2: make them cry, you know. And I think that a
Speaker 2: film that is content in making you smile is it's
Speaker 2: a very powerful thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean there's a want in friendship in general
Speaker 3: that we all want, you know, and the fact that
Speaker 3: that developed over hardship. And but there's a weird distance
Speaker 3: that Morgan had from him because of the way he
Speaker 3: was narrating it. At times I felt that he wasn't
Speaker 3: being kind of a true friend to him. For example
Speaker 3: with the sisters, and you know, Morgan doesn't offer any
Speaker 3: protection at all. And Morgan Freeman or Red is the
Speaker 3: fixer of the prison, so he can can and make
Speaker 3: things happen and can do things with cigarettes for people
Speaker 3: he can do, but he doesn't do this. It is
Speaker 3: almost as though he lets the you know, the inevitable
Speaker 3: rape or you know, abuse, He narrates it and then
Speaker 3: it kind of happens, so that there is an interesting
Speaker 3: dynamic from the director's point of view where his best
Speaker 3: friend is the narrator of the film, which creates a
Speaker 3: little bit of a distance, where in most films that's
Speaker 3: not the case. Most buddy films, they're together completely. One's
Speaker 3: not commenting necessarily on the other. They're in that journey together. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this had that weird distance that that I liked.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed the one thing I say about the voice over,
Speaker 2: which I hadn't I hadn't really clocked. And this is
Speaker 2: the wonderful thing about doing this podcast is you watch
Speaker 2: a film knowing that you're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2: So I tend to watch it a little differently as
Speaker 2: and I've seen this movie many many times, I'm not
Speaker 2: completely sure the voiceover, the way he talks, and the
Speaker 2: almost the poetry, the way he talks matches up completely
Speaker 2: with the character that we've met at Shawshanky. He almost
Speaker 2: is awesome. Wells you know, or when Oscar Wild yes,
Speaker 2: you know, which you don't really hear red talk like
Speaker 2: that is more plain speaking than that, and it's never
Speaker 2: bothered me. It doesn't even bother me now. But I
Speaker 2: did notice it this time around.
Speaker 3: Yes, because as you know, someone who makes films, you know,
Speaker 3: there's the narration of the film that would have been written,
Speaker 3: and then there's the character lines of the film. Yep,
Speaker 3: and he smashed both into one and you can clearly
Speaker 3: see them as they're separating. But with that said, Morgan
Speaker 3: Freeman did play convincingly a kind of father figure role
Speaker 3: for everyone. Like if you notice the framing, he was
Speaker 3: almost inevitably framed in the middle. He almost inevitably framed
Speaker 3: people around him, I mean part of the framing. As
Speaker 3: you know, the major issue that that film had was
Speaker 3: Tim Robins height. Yes, fine, you know, it's like it's
Speaker 3: the reverse of Tom Cruise movies, you know, where they're
Speaker 3: recruiting small people from around the world. They couldn't get
Speaker 3: tall people to matter.
Speaker 2: But I was gonna make that exact point is why
Speaker 2: you'd never seen Tim Robins and Tom Cruise act in
Speaker 2: the same movie, Like it will never happen. And if
Speaker 2: you go back and watch it and I encourage you
Speaker 2: check it out. Tim Robbins is almost always either crouching
Speaker 2: down or leaning over, you know, coming out from behind
Speaker 2: Morgan Freeman when they're watching Rita Hayworth, you know, and
Speaker 2: it's it's it's very cleverly done because he is he
Speaker 2: is when they line up with when they all line
Speaker 2: up with the scene that we played before, that's one
Speaker 2: time where you can see how tall Tim Robbins's compared
Speaker 2: to the other prisoners.
Speaker 3: So so on that point that you make about the
Speaker 3: disconnects between the sort of sophistication of poetic nature or
Speaker 3: the writing of the narration of the film versus the
Speaker 3: actual character. Where I think Morgan Freeman gets away with
Speaker 3: it is the melodic, soothing tone of his voice. He
Speaker 3: could say anything and it will have that sort of
Speaker 3: poetic sound. And he does speak like that in his
Speaker 3: character as well, you know, not just a narration like
Speaker 3: it's just not as sophisticated, but it's the same feel,
Speaker 3: that sort of that sort of moving voice that he has.
Speaker 3: You know that it's I mean, it's an exceptional tool.
Speaker 1: Oh, it is a tool. So Frank Dearbon he he
Speaker 1: this is one of his first films.
Speaker 2: I think I Think. He made a horror film called
Speaker 2: Buried Alive. He done some work on I Think The
Speaker 2: Fly Too and some other and he was keen to
Speaker 2: get out of horror films. He made a short film
Speaker 2: called The Woman in the Room, which is based on
Speaker 2: Stephen king short story, and so that's how he gets
Speaker 2: in it with Stephen King.
Speaker 1: So he was keen to get away from horror.
Speaker 2: And and the character of Red in the book is
Speaker 2: he's white. He's an Irish old, Irish white guy like
Speaker 2: Clint Eastward is up for this role Paul Newman, Redford.
Speaker 2: And that's why there's that great, uh, great line in
Speaker 2: the movie why do they call you Red? And he goes,
Speaker 2: because I'm Irish, And it's it's it's played as a joke.
Speaker 2: It's it's lovely because it works even if you don't
Speaker 2: know that something well, I know, I only knew that
Speaker 2: stuff that yesterday, but it's it is brilliant. But Frank
Speaker 2: Darabine he would watch, he was he was nervous about it.
Speaker 2: So he would watch Goodfellas every Sunday just to kind
Speaker 2: of not only from it an aesthetic point of view,
Speaker 2: but more so with the voiceover, because that is also
Speaker 2: one of the great voiceover films of all time, Good Fellas,
Speaker 2: and so he would watch that just to make sure
Speaker 2: that he was doing the right things and on the
Speaker 2: right track. And you could argue that those two films,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe even Apocalypse now that you mentioned it earlier,
Speaker 2: three of the great narrated films.
Speaker 3: You just raise something now that I never thought. I
Speaker 3: did not think about, but now sort of My fourth
Speaker 3: reason for having never seen this film is my mom
Speaker 3: used to watch horrific horror movies like every night as
Speaker 3: her form of escapers, you know. And so I would
Speaker 3: be in my bedroom and i would be listening to
Speaker 3: Chainsaw Massacre, and I'm into the horror and un any
Speaker 3: any butcher chop slice. So I have a real version
Speaker 3: of horror movies I don't get the idea of because
Speaker 3: from the brains perspect what you see your brain experiences.
Speaker 3: So if you're seeing death, violence, and you know, on horror,
Speaker 3: your brain is in its sympathetic response, it's responding to it.
Speaker 3: That's why people love it. Right, You're you are really
Speaker 3: feeling it. So I've had a block on horror, and
Speaker 3: I now that you say that. When I think back,
Speaker 3: Stephen King probably was like a red flag to me,
Speaker 3: Like as soon as I read it was a Stephen
Speaker 3: King film, it comes with all the you know, all
Speaker 3: the negativity and all that stuff, the horror, I just
Speaker 3: blocked it and said, I'm not watching that.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting because Castle Rock, the distributor, they they
Speaker 2: made sure Stephen King was not on the poster that
Speaker 2: they did.
Speaker 1: They made no effort to kind of tie it to
Speaker 1: Stephen King.
Speaker 2: Obviously when it comes out, you know, reviews and and
Speaker 2: and you know articles mentioned that because it's not their
Speaker 2: job to hide that fact. But yeah, I think at
Speaker 2: the time the actors were almost told don't don't tie
Speaker 2: to Stephen King. Uh. They didn't have Stephen King to
Speaker 2: do any publicity for it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, not on the poster.
Speaker 2: Usually, you know, somebody who's huge Stephen King would have
Speaker 2: based on a novel by Stephen King.
Speaker 1: None of that, none of that.
Speaker 2: And it was it was because they did not want
Speaker 2: for that exact reason for people to think that this
Speaker 2: is a horror film.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And when you sha shank Redemption could have like
Speaker 3: shanks cutting people open and slicing and dicing people, it
Speaker 3: could be a Stephen King film. Anyway, that was my
Speaker 3: mistake for not watching it. Damn you, Stephen King.
Speaker 2: Well, now we have this glorious moment and this conversation.
Speaker 2: Now to the thanks seven King four. The what's also
Speaker 2: great about Red and Andy? They're very it's very clever,
Speaker 2: and it's very subtle. But they are quite opposite men,
Speaker 2: you know, not not necessarily in every way, but they
Speaker 2: are you know. One, you know, it's ready seen, you know,
Speaker 2: admits that he's the only the only guilty man in
Speaker 2: shaw Shank because everyone's apparently innocent. And then we find
Speaker 2: out that Andy actually is probably the only innocent man
Speaker 2: in shaw Shank, you know. And and the big, the
Speaker 2: biggest thing is that they the Hope thing, which is
Speaker 2: what this movie is about one.
Speaker 3: And which is what I loved about it.
Speaker 5: Yes, there's something inside that they can't get to it,
Speaker 5: they can't touch. It's yours.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Hope.
Speaker 3: Hope.
Speaker 11: I'm gonna tell you some of my friend. Hope is
Speaker 11: a dangerous thing. Hope and Drab a man in scene.
Speaker 11: It's got more use on the other side. I'm better
Speaker 11: get use to that idea.
Speaker 6: I approached it.
Speaker 3: So beyond them making the technical aspect of the film,
Speaker 3: which I love watching, you know, the pacing and the
Speaker 3: music and the grade and the you know, the characters,
Speaker 3: the theme of hope and the fact that you have
Speaker 3: a buddy film where people are coming out of two
Speaker 3: different viewpoints. You know, on the one side, you've got
Speaker 3: Morgan Freeman who sees hope is something to be scared of,
Speaker 3: that that hope can, as he says, drive you insane
Speaker 3: when you're in prison. You know that it's a bad thing.
Speaker 3: And then you got Andy or Tim Robbins coming in
Speaker 3: saying hope is everything you know and without it you're gone.
Speaker 3: And then possibly my favorite part of the film had
Speaker 3: nothing to do with any of those characters.
Speaker 12: It Brooks, Yeah, James, whatmyer like like because he then
Speaker 12: encapsulates both ends of the hope spectrum because on the
Speaker 12: one hand, he gets released and so he has all.
Speaker 3: Of it in front of him, and on the other
Speaker 3: hand he has none of it.
Speaker 2: And it's it's so important because this movie is also
Speaker 2: about what institutionalizing men will do. When you put men
Speaker 2: in the cage and you strip them of hope. What
Speaker 2: happens and Brooks serves as the great wait, you think
Speaker 2: for the movie because it's a it's a it's an
Speaker 2: example that we say, what happens when somebody loses hope
Speaker 2: and has no hope. Let's have it to listen at
Speaker 2: them talking about Brooks being institutionalized.
Speaker 13: But I'm telling you, these walls are funny.
Speaker 8: Raft to hate them, and you get used to them,
Speaker 8: enough time passes, you get so you'll depend on.
Speaker 13: As institutionalized shit you can never get like that.
Speaker 9: Yeah, So that when they've been here as long as
Speaker 9: book says.
Speaker 13: God damn right, they send you here for life. That's
Speaker 13: exactly what they take part of counts anyway.
Speaker 2: So that's the same like this is when they worried
Speaker 2: about Andy, but it's in the shadow of Brooks. So
Speaker 2: that's that's why it's important that that happens, because they
Speaker 2: do a really good job, and we've got to touch
Speaker 2: on it the flour of like you know, the you know,
Speaker 2: they're not having enough doubt that maybe Andy is guilty
Speaker 2: and and and then maybe he will later on, maybe
Speaker 2: he will not make it through, maybe he will take
Speaker 2: his own life, you know. And they do a really
Speaker 2: good job of going even though there's a part of
Speaker 2: our brain that probably knows it doesn't but it's probably
Speaker 2: not going to happen because this is a movie.
Speaker 1: And they're really going to have Andy kill himself.
Speaker 2: But they do a good job of going to like
Speaker 2: taking you to the edge of thinking yeah, maybe maybe yeah.
Speaker 3: But what jumped out at me in that scene, and
Speaker 3: it was the same thing that jumped out at me
Speaker 3: when Morgan Freeman or Read was released, was the other
Speaker 3: sub theme that's going on in this is fear and
Speaker 3: the line both lines jumped out at me hugely in
Speaker 3: Brooks a scene, Brooks says I'm just tired of being afraid,
Speaker 3: and then the exact same thing happens to Morgan Freeman.
Speaker 3: He says, I'm just tired. I'm sick of being afraid.
Speaker 3: And the whole notion that they're afraid on the outside
Speaker 3: but not on the inside, where for most people, including me,
Speaker 3: have this sort of deep innate fear of prison. You know,
Speaker 3: all this sort of containment and this, all the negative
Speaker 3: things you've seen, everything that would been conditioned to believe,
Speaker 3: but their greatest fear was just existing on the outside.
Speaker 3: I mean, that just blew my mind. I was like,
Speaker 3: as soon as I heard them both say the same line,
Speaker 3: I thought, Wow, there's another sub theme about because we
Speaker 3: get it the obvious fear with the sisters and the
Speaker 3: rape and you know, and bad things are going to happen,
Speaker 3: but that level of fear, this sort of existential fear
Speaker 3: of existence in the real world once your humanity has
Speaker 3: been stripped from you, is a really big concept. You
Speaker 3: know that you're just going whoa, and and and then
Speaker 3: you know, and then of course the suicide, and then
Speaker 3: and then the misdirection of Morgan Freeman's potential suicide as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's it's it's so and watching
Speaker 2: it again and I haven't so many times, but knowing
Speaker 2: that I was going to talk about it, and there's
Speaker 2: things that you just you know, and this is how
Speaker 2: you're supposed to watch films. You're supposed to in a
Speaker 2: way just let things wash over you and that they'll
Speaker 2: they'll work away in the way that you don't maybe
Speaker 2: would never have to articulate, but the way they play
Speaker 2: with hope and that you know, I can see now
Speaker 2: why and even with the sisters, you know why that's
Speaker 2: important because yeah, that's like a visceral kind of fear
Speaker 2: that they have. But then there's there's all this other
Speaker 2: underlying fear that has to play out more slowly, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's so beautiful and they have to
Speaker 2: you know, they have to break Andy, you know, both
Speaker 2: physically and mentally.
Speaker 1: And it's not just for the story, but it's also.
Speaker 2: For the theme, you know, the impact of being institutionalized,
Speaker 2: and that any an he needs to keep hopeless, you know,
Speaker 2: because what does It's the one thing and he has
Speaker 2: that Brooks never had. And then so if we consider
Speaker 2: that Andy has hope and Brooks lost hope, it puts Red.
Speaker 1: Right in the middle of that. Well, isn't it the
Speaker 1: fork in the road.
Speaker 2: He's either gonna you don't give up on hope and
Speaker 2: we know how that ends with Brooks or he's going
Speaker 2: to choose choose hope and we don't know what was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you think he leans more towards Brooks, which
Speaker 3: was the reason that they introduced Brooks, right, because you're going, okay, well,
Speaker 3: he's also institutionalized. In that conversation where they're sitting there,
Speaker 3: Red and Andy speaking, and that's when they have the
Speaker 3: whole conversation, that's when you really realize that these people
Speaker 3: are on the opposite sides of that fence. But what
Speaker 3: the sort of mind blowing thing for me with that
Speaker 3: was that Brooks was happy on the inside. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: so his loss of hope happened on the outside.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, like because.
Speaker 3: His whole character was positive. He had a friend, he
Speaker 3: had the birds, he was like smiling, he was delivering books,
Speaker 3: he had purpose, he had he was happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, you could say, oh, you know, his life was
Speaker 3: stripped away from him, but you can also say that
Speaker 3: he was given a life in there that he was
Speaker 3: happy with. It was his release where he lost hope.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And of course you are now foreshadowing to what happens
Speaker 3: to Andy, you know when when in his release.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you think, oh, we'll come back to that.
Speaker 2: Actually, I spoke about they every film you need to
Speaker 2: take you know, your your hero, even though he said,
Speaker 2: I think I think you're right in the in the
Speaker 2: this is really red story in a way.
Speaker 1: But they do need to take Andy.
Speaker 2: They need to try to break him, you know, mentally,
Speaker 2: emotionally that you need to put your character at rock bottom.
Speaker 2: And and and they did this in such a fucking
Speaker 2: great clever way. And I want to walk through a
Speaker 2: few sick as of how this happens when we when
Speaker 2: Tommy arrives at Shortshank and is a young hot shot
Speaker 2: and he teaches him how to read and then.
Speaker 3: It was originally going to be Brad Pitt by the way, Yes, yes,
Speaker 3: which is remarkable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's an amazing casting. We'll come back
Speaker 2: to that. This is Tommy joining some dots here and
Speaker 2: then we go into the confession made by a former
Speaker 2: inmate one.
Speaker 10: Time bus and tables at a country club. So he says,
Speaker 10: I got me this job one time bus and tables
Speaker 10: at a country club. So I get case all of
Speaker 10: these big rich pricks that come in. So I pick
Speaker 10: up this game going one night and do his place.
Speaker 6: He wakes up.
Speaker 10: Gives me shipped.
Speaker 1: So I killed it.
Speaker 14: Him in this tasty pitch he was with.
Speaker 3: It's the best part. She's fucking this pricksy golf property there.
Speaker 1: It's some other guy, some hotshot banker, and he's the
Speaker 1: one they'd been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's i'll tell you what. I forget the
Speaker 2: actor's name, but he makes the most of that for
Speaker 2: it is like you completely believe that he is telling
Speaker 2: the truth in that moment. So so this happens, It
Speaker 2: gives Andy hope. It gives us all hope. Ah, this
Speaker 2: is this is going to this is what he needed.
Speaker 2: He's the only as a man who's jawe shank. And
Speaker 2: then so they take it to the Warden, who we
Speaker 2: haven't sparking about him. We'll speak more about him, Warden
Speaker 2: Norton played by Bob Gunton.
Speaker 1: Both him and Red Guard to him and with the
Speaker 1: good news.
Speaker 6: It's obvious this fellow Williams is impressed with you. He
Speaker 6: hears your tailor woe and quite naturally wants to cheer
Speaker 6: you up. He's young, not terribly bright, not surprising. He
Speaker 6: wouldn't know what a state he puts you in.
Speaker 3: Sir.
Speaker 5: He's telling the truth.
Speaker 6: But let's say for the moment this blatch does exist.
Speaker 6: You think he just fall to his knees and cried, yes,
Speaker 6: I did it.
Speaker 9: I confess. Oh, by the way, had a life term
Speaker 9: to my sentence.
Speaker 5: You know that wouldn't matter.
Speaker 15: With Tommy's testimony, I can get a new trial.
Speaker 6: And that's assuming latches. Even still, there chances are excellent
Speaker 6: he'd be released by now well.
Speaker 5: They'd have his last known address, names of relatives. Is
Speaker 5: it a chance?
Speaker 15: Isn't it.
Speaker 14: Can't you be so tooth?
Speaker 5: What did you call me a tooth? Is it deliberate?
Speaker 3: Son?
Speaker 5: You're forgetting yourself.
Speaker 15: The country club will have his old time cards records
Speaker 15: W two's with his.
Speaker 6: Name of Rane. If you want to indulge this fantasy,
Speaker 6: that's your business, don't make it mine.
Speaker 1: This meeting is over, sir.
Speaker 15: If I were to ever get out, I would never
Speaker 15: mention what goes on in here, I'd be just as
Speaker 15: indictable as you for lundering that money.
Speaker 6: Don't you ever mention money to me again? You sorry,
Speaker 6: son of a bitch. Not in this office, not anywhere.
Speaker 6: Get in here now.
Speaker 15: Let's just try to set your mind with his that's all, sir.
Speaker 6: Solitary a month.
Speaker 1: What's the matter with you?
Speaker 9: Get him out of here?
Speaker 15: Somebody says to get out, but you see that it's
Speaker 15: understand get.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's so brilliant, the rollercoaster you're going
Speaker 2: on as an audience man. But when you think when
Speaker 2: Tommy comes and says, oh no, he's he's innocent, and
Speaker 2: you believe I said, we believe that he's in that
Speaker 2: that that that prison night, and then for this to happen,
Speaker 2: which once it happens, you're gonna go off course.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this ward needs him. It's a hell of a rollercoaster.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's only two stories, I think, two stories
Speaker 3: that are complete stories within the main story. One is Brookes,
Speaker 3: you know, and you need him because he shows what
Speaker 3: happens when you really lose hope and it all said
Speaker 3: and done. So you need that to have that juxtaposition
Speaker 3: between which choice are those two main characters going to make.
Speaker 3: And then Tommy and Tommy's role as the beginning, middle
Speaker 3: of the end, and Tommy's role is to introduce the
Speaker 3: innocence of it, but also to just amplify the the
Speaker 3: evil of the warden and the evil of the whole system,
Speaker 3: you know. And and Tommy does that in I mean,
Speaker 3: Tommy just enters kind of out of nowhere, doesn't He
Speaker 3: just comes in, his whole story is played out, and
Speaker 3: he's dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And and it really is evil.
Speaker 2: I mean, we got to know, we know they're bad,
Speaker 2: but I think it's it's what happens now that we'll
Speaker 2: have a listen to that that that puts it into.
Speaker 1: The evil, pure evil category. So this is and he's
Speaker 1: in the hall Warden.
Speaker 2: Norton calls for a meeting with Tommy, and again, what
Speaker 2: a rollercoaster. We think, Okay, maybe the ward is going
Speaker 2: to help out, and let's have listen what happens.
Speaker 9: I'll tell you something. This thing really came along and
Speaker 9: knock my wind out. It's got me up nights. That's
Speaker 9: the truth, the right thing to do. Sometimes it's hard
Speaker 9: to know what that is.
Speaker 15: Do you understand?
Speaker 1: I need your help, son.
Speaker 9: If I'm going to move on this, there can't be
Speaker 9: the least little shredded out. I have to know of
Speaker 9: what you told to friend.
Speaker 3: What's the truth?
Speaker 15: Yes, sir, absolutely?
Speaker 9: Would you be willing to swear before a judge and
Speaker 9: jury having placed your hand on the Good Book and
Speaker 9: taken an oath before Almighty got himself?
Speaker 3: Just give me that chance.
Speaker 4: That's what I thought.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've seen this film many times. How did
Speaker 2: you feel watching it? Yeah, in the last six six
Speaker 2: days when you first with that happened.
Speaker 3: Ah, by that stage I already hated this guy. They'd
Speaker 3: already done their job. Yeah, you know, establishing him, the
Speaker 3: hypocrisy of him up front talking about the albino blasphemy
Speaker 3: and you know, the Bible and his belief system and
Speaker 3: then to just unpick that throughout where he's swearing in
Speaker 3: and money laundering and assaulting and all. So at that
Speaker 3: stage I was really hating that. And and it was
Speaker 3: one of those, you know, good storytelling things where his
Speaker 3: death was inevitable but unexpected. You kind of know this
Speaker 3: is not going to play out, but how are they
Speaker 3: going to get rid of them? It was dark? I mean,
Speaker 3: it was so the director, I think when public saying
Speaker 3: that this was not meant to be some kind of
Speaker 3: subtle exposition of prison systems, but on many levels it
Speaker 3: was the cruelty and the freedom that they have and
Speaker 3: the lawlessness that exists ironically within a prison system. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I thought it was horrible.
Speaker 1: And what it does it challenges even the audience to
Speaker 1: keep hope because it basically it drains when Andy's got
Speaker 1: the most hope that he's ever had since being shortag
Speaker 1: of getting out, and it challenges the audience now to
Speaker 1: keep can you keep you?
Speaker 2: He's our hope going to die with with with Tommy
Speaker 2: because because this was this was and he's taken out
Speaker 2: and and and and we were on board with that
Speaker 2: and now it's been snuffed out. And so not only
Speaker 2: does it tests and he's resolve and and and and hope.
Speaker 2: I think it also tests the audiences, which is I
Speaker 2: think is is really really clever, but I mean, I
Speaker 2: think we are discussed.
Speaker 3: I also loved the symbolism of of the kind of
Speaker 3: like like the Bible and rock camera, and like like
Speaker 3: the fact that that it was hidden in the Bible,
Speaker 3: of which the warden was all four but yet all
Speaker 3: against it. It's just so brilliant. And now they swing
Speaker 3: back at the end.
Speaker 1: Did you notice what page? What chapter in the Bible?
Speaker 3: The page was? Yeah? I paused because I was watching it.
Speaker 3: I watched her twice, right the first time I watched
Speaker 3: on television and because I just want to see that's what.
Speaker 3: And the second time I watched it by computer. And
Speaker 3: when I got there, I paused because I was like,
Speaker 3: first of all, I just paused because filmically, I was wondering,
Speaker 3: is it the rough shape of the thing, you know,
Speaker 3: I was just wondering if they took the time to
Speaker 3: do it properly, which they did. But while I was
Speaker 3: looking at it, I was like, oh, fuck, it's on excident, Okay,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 2: And we did an episode recently with Glenn Robbins with
Speaker 2: one flew over the Cookie's nest and we spoke about
Speaker 2: Nurse Ratchett a bit who's sadly. Weirdly, the week after
Speaker 2: that episode came out, Louise Fletcher sadly passed away. And
Speaker 2: I think such a great performance in that movie. And
Speaker 2: you could argue about the kind of how evil was
Speaker 2: she was She just a woman trying to do her
Speaker 2: job at like a tough job, you know, And I
Speaker 2: think she's whether she's evil, but I think she abuses
Speaker 2: her position in that in that movie where there is
Speaker 2: no doubt about the Ward and and and Hadley they
Speaker 2: are they are evil. There's even references the book burning.
Speaker 2: It's so clever that and he's trying to introduce art
Speaker 2: and color to shaw Shank through the beautiful record playing scene. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that scene at the moment you know they're knocking on
Speaker 2: the door and you know he's gonna get He knows
Speaker 2: he's going to get beaten. Certainly if he doesn't open
Speaker 2: the door, he's going to get beaten.
Speaker 1: And he leans in. You think he's going to turn
Speaker 1: it off, but he turns it up.
Speaker 3: Is and what a brilliant line from Morgan Freeman or
Speaker 3: from Red when he says, for a moment, we were
Speaker 3: all free, you know. Yeah, Yeah, that's one of my
Speaker 3: favorite moments in the film.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And the fact that he is introducing the opening the
Speaker 2: library and he's getting books in. I mean, you can
Speaker 2: look at Shaw Shank as a you.
Speaker 1: Know, a riff on on arts funding, you know, in
Speaker 1: a way.
Speaker 2: I mean you've got the conservatives who who you know,
Speaker 2: I only using it because it kind of it helps
Speaker 2: and you know, it helps them make more money. But
Speaker 2: you know, whenever it's just about enlightening people and inspiring people,
Speaker 2: then they're not for that at all.
Speaker 3: But it's funny because it's another theme, isn't it. So
Speaker 3: you've got You've got you've got hope, you've got love
Speaker 3: and camaraderie, you've got fear and loneliness, and you got
Speaker 3: this persistence and resilience. I mean, the whole idea when
Speaker 3: he pulls out the rock germ and he says, oh,
Speaker 3: to escape, you'd need six hundred years with that thing,
Speaker 3: and and the fact that it's all being chipped away
Speaker 3: at and when he does the the library, you know,
Speaker 3: he writes two letters a week and he continues to
Speaker 3: do that for six years or something. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: just it just shows the the you know, kind of
Speaker 3: well known cliche. Now if you don't half of it
Speaker 3: is getting up, you know, half of it is showing up,
Speaker 3: and half it is just keep going, keep chipping away
Speaker 3: pardon the pun in his case. Yeah, you know, and
Speaker 3: like perseverance and you know, not letting go completely is
Speaker 3: a major theme in this that there's playots so literally
Speaker 3: in that he you know, chips his way out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of the one of the great scenes, which which
Speaker 2: I probably should have mentioned earlier because we're probably past
Speaker 2: this point, but it'll be it'd be wrong not to
Speaker 2: mention it because I feel like it's this. It's a
Speaker 2: scene where and he finds his feet in share shank,
Speaker 2: which is the the beers and the roof, and it
Speaker 2: is it's a beautiful scene. It's a great scene. We
Speaker 2: have them doing the they're tarring something doesn't really see
Speaker 2: these days, thankfully, the tarring of the roof Red because
Speaker 2: he has he's the fixa and you know, he gets
Speaker 2: all his friends and you know, I think Andy's probably
Speaker 2: reads me lucky to get in on that detail. Red
Speaker 2: does say. You could say that I liked Andy the
Speaker 2: very first time I saw him or something like that.
Speaker 2: But if you actually watch, it's not completely true. You know,
Speaker 2: he actually has money on him to be the first
Speaker 2: who kind of so that's a little little nudge or
Speaker 2: a little kind of ripple that doesn't quite ring true
Speaker 2: for me. But I got no doubt of the friendship
Speaker 2: that does occur. But this is where he he everyone
Speaker 2: kind of accepts Andy. And I will say this though,
Speaker 2: when he's when he's overhearing Hadley's tax problem with the
Speaker 2: money that he's inherited and that his wife, you know,
Speaker 2: and the way Andy raises the topic of tax exemption
Speaker 2: is a very dangerous way to do it. He really
Speaker 2: could have gone, listen, I'm an accountant, I'm a lawyer.
Speaker 1: I could help you with your tax issue.
Speaker 3: But he goes straight from the building.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he goes straight forward.
Speaker 2: Do you trust your wife exactly?
Speaker 3: Probably not the opening normal countains would use.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but it is it is.
Speaker 2: I love the fact that you know, and and the
Speaker 2: whole light and changes they had this CPS. It's not
Speaker 2: the most golden moment of Shawshank as far as the
Speaker 2: light you know, they yeah, and and Red says, we
Speaker 2: drank SuDS with the with the sun on our backs
Speaker 2: and he and he's not drinking. You know, he just
Speaker 2: did this, given up and he which you know, almost
Speaker 2: a redentive thing to do.
Speaker 3: Perhaps, Yeah, I mean it's a fantastic line that that
Speaker 3: Read says on behalf of Andy that you know the
Speaker 3: reason he did it was not because he was interested
Speaker 3: in having a drink, but you know, the reason he
Speaker 3: did it was just to feel normal for a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, to do something good and real. You know
Speaker 3: that that's and the fact that he's sitting there aloof
Speaker 3: and watching them and you know, and and and the
Speaker 3: characters are now warming to him, and it really was
Speaker 3: his turning point with yes, because that's when he started
Speaker 3: to get protected, that's when he started to get best treatments.
Speaker 3: That's when started unraveling. Oh sure, going in the right
Speaker 3: direction for him until it all went wrong again.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So we'll move towards the end now.
Speaker 2: And did you did you did you get to the
Speaker 2: place where you thought Andy had given up?
Speaker 1: Hope he does. Obviously he comes out of the hole.
Speaker 2: And and he has that chat with.
Speaker 1: Read again. They're sitting up against the wall again. They're
Speaker 1: not standing up. They're sitting down.
Speaker 2: This guy's Tim Robinson's height, and this way he gives
Speaker 2: him the directions. But then they kind of speak about
Speaker 2: hope as well. That again, it's really important to have
Speaker 2: these discussions. That hope is dangerous. Andy, you have you
Speaker 2: have to give up on this and this is you know,
Speaker 2: Andy's in this kind of he's speaking that low broken
Speaker 2: he said, he said, he sounds broken, and Andy gives
Speaker 2: him some directions.
Speaker 3: I don't think he ought to be doing this to yourself.
Speaker 3: And this is just shitty paved dreams.
Speaker 13: I mean, Mexico was way to held down there and
Speaker 13: you're here, and that's the way it is.
Speaker 16: Yeah, right, that's the way it is. It's down there
Speaker 16: and I'm in here. I guess it comes down to
Speaker 16: a simple choice. Really good busy living. You're good busy die.
Speaker 3: Andy.
Speaker 15: Bred if you ever get out of here, do me
Speaker 15: a favor, sure anything. There's a big hay field up
Speaker 15: near Buxton. You know where Buxton is.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of hayfields up there.
Speaker 15: One in particular, it's got a long rock wall with
Speaker 15: a big oak tree at the north end. It's like
Speaker 15: something out of a Robert frostbow. That's where I asked
Speaker 15: my wife to marry me. I went there for a
Speaker 15: picnic and mad love into that oak and.
Speaker 4: I asked, and she said, yes, promise me, Red, if
Speaker 4: you ever get out, find that spot.
Speaker 15: They said, that wall, you'll find a rock that has
Speaker 15: no earthly business in.
Speaker 3: A main en ave field.
Speaker 15: Here's a black volcanic glass. Okay, there's something buried under,
Speaker 15: and I want you to have what what's buried under
Speaker 15: that you left the bride up, you see.
Speaker 1: I mean the making love was probably too much information.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. I started to visualize that. I thinking, Okay,
Speaker 3: under the tree, the rocks, W does W does tell?
Speaker 3: What was her name, Debbie.
Speaker 1: Does VHS That's what it was.
Speaker 2: So it's I mean, it's quite brilliant in that Andy
Speaker 2: is selling hope back to Red in this moment, like
Speaker 2: he's giving him something to strive for in a way
Speaker 2: and the wonder about and to imagine and and I
Speaker 2: think that's that's hope and it's interesting to think about. Okay,
Speaker 2: So he must have known because this all happens obviously,
Speaker 2: yet this money in this letter's not there yet. He's
Speaker 2: got this plan, so he's gonna you know, he's got
Speaker 2: a rocking mind.
Speaker 3: So he is really peddling false ol. But let's not
Speaker 3: go there. You know, Like he's like he is being
Speaker 3: overly hopeful, yes, doing it in its own right, you know.
Speaker 2: But I think he's confident that his plan is gonna,
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, work out.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean this is you're now getting to. I
Speaker 3: don't want to turn anyone off the film because it's brilliant.
Speaker 3: This is the part I like least about the.
Speaker 1: Film specifically, which like this this scene or where it goes.
Speaker 3: From here or where it goes from here?
Speaker 1: Where it goes Is this the escape or is his
Speaker 1: post the escape?
Speaker 3: So so I wanted the redemption to be Andy gets
Speaker 3: buried by red.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I wanted him to die in the prison that I
Speaker 3: didn't want. I didn't want the redemption in its literal form.
Speaker 3: I want it read to carry the hope, right. I
Speaker 3: want it read to convert to be hopeful. And then
Speaker 3: I don't know Andy letter, you know, I don't know
Speaker 3: Andy leaves in a letter and he goes off and
Speaker 3: lives a great I don't know. I struggled with the
Speaker 3: literal redemption, like when he's driving down the road in
Speaker 3: the convertible, I went, no, no, no, No, I don't
Speaker 3: want a conronable driving in the winding Road. I don't
Speaker 3: want like and I know the symbolism of the green
Speaker 3: and the ocean, the blue and the Pacific Ocean, but
Speaker 3: I don't know it's I didn't need it. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I kind of I didn't want the literal redemption.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, I mean, I I mean I saw this,
Speaker 2: you know, over twenty years ago. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: think like most people didn't see it the cinema, I
Speaker 2: don't think, but I thought, you know, not long after that,
Speaker 2: and I probably wasn't in that mind space where I
Speaker 2: was like, like you now, where I was thinking about, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I probably wanted the happy, happier ending.
Speaker 3: Yeah. They don't kill off characters twenty years ago, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah they Yeah, so I was. I've never thought about it.
Speaker 2: I never thought about like that that I've always I
Speaker 2: got to see, this is one of the perfect kind
Speaker 2: of act third acts.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I always back to the future being a perfect third act,
Speaker 2: and I feel that this is because this is this
Speaker 2: is a kind of thing where if you're watching if
Speaker 2: you're watching Shaw shank and it comes on around this time,
Speaker 2: you're canceling your plans and you watch it because, I
Speaker 2: mean because the because the way it all unfolds is brilliant,
Speaker 2: and the little moments you get along the way, and
Speaker 2: the come uppance of the ward and when he realizes
Speaker 2: when he sees that the rock camera in love that
Speaker 2: in print the shoes, you know, and you can't because
Speaker 2: we don't know, you know, And I said, they do
Speaker 2: a really good job of thinking what what happened?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Red is upset the longest night of his life. You know,
Speaker 2: the cells open in the morning, he doesn't appear. We
Speaker 2: see him the night before with rope in his hands.
Speaker 2: It's basically a noose, and you kind of do think,
Speaker 2: did you ever think that could happen?
Speaker 3: Well? I was kind of so. I loved the twist
Speaker 3: of the rock camera in the Bible. Yeah, and I
Speaker 3: love the fact that he took twenty years, not six
Speaker 3: times to tunnel out. I kind of loved it. I
Speaker 3: just wanted him to die doing it, Like I just
Speaker 3: wanted him like I would have been happy for him
Speaker 3: to escape or to to die trying to.
Speaker 7: Get that note out to read or whatever like that
Speaker 7: the rope strangles him on his escape through the tunnel
Speaker 7: or what I don't know, Like I didn't want I
Speaker 7: didn't I didn't want him, Tim.
Speaker 3: Robbins or Andy to literally have redemption like that. I
Speaker 3: kind of I wanted it to be red, you know.
Speaker 3: I wanted it to be Red that comes right and
Speaker 3: gets hope and comes you know. And you could say
Speaker 3: he did in the end, but I wanted him to
Speaker 3: be I wanted us to feel the loss of Andy
Speaker 3: and then to feel the the the rejuvenated, somehow rejuvenated
Speaker 3: hope of red because he had met someone he loved
Speaker 3: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, and you make a below point in that it
Speaker 2: probably is Read that needs the redemption more than Andy.
Speaker 1: Andy.
Speaker 2: Yes, and he's an innocent man, and yes he had
Speaker 2: a dark moment where he was loading a gun and
Speaker 2: and and that.
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure I've all done that. We've all
Speaker 1: done that.
Speaker 2: But so you don't do you need twenty years for
Speaker 2: you know, for him the kind of you know, for
Speaker 2: that moment to be redeemed.
Speaker 1: I don't think so. But it's red. It's Red who has.
Speaker 2: Who is guilty of his crime, who has lost hope,
Speaker 2: that has a bigger journey as far as redemption goes.
Speaker 3: You're you're right, Yeah, and and and when he's walking
Speaker 3: on the beach at the end and with the sandaler's
Speaker 3: shoes on on his shoulder. I I don't know. I
Speaker 3: just I wanted to feel more from him, you know.
Speaker 3: And I know it's a buddy film, so in the
Speaker 3: end they're together. But that was my only with that said,
Speaker 3: Like I loved it. I loved the end. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: I didn't hate it. It was the part I liked least,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like I and again now
Speaker 3: picking apart the film and you know, you kind of
Speaker 3: see it differently than washing over you. It would have
Speaker 3: washed over me, you know, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, the escape, you know, I mean, it's
Speaker 2: one of those fun things to watch in in movie history,
Speaker 2: like in movies in general, a good escape or a
Speaker 2: heist or escape when you kind of don't know how
Speaker 2: he's done it, and when you see it or play out,
Speaker 2: there are a couple of things that you know are convenient,
Speaker 2: you know, like the weather that he you know its
Speaker 2: gonna be.
Speaker 1: Done right.
Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait.
Speaker 2: I'm so surprised in a way, to be honest, when
Speaker 2: he when they see him walking with and he's wearing
Speaker 2: the warden shoes, and it's revealed later that they didn't
Speaker 2: maybe lay in at least some rain, you know, or
Speaker 2: you know, or this this is something about whether there
Speaker 2: was some inclement weather coming, you know, and you know,
Speaker 2: a hackeyway could have been a warden saying there's going
Speaker 2: to be storms tonight or something, you know, like somebody
Speaker 2: saying that so, which would mean nothing to us in
Speaker 2: the moment. But then when Andy does that, it'd be like, ah, okay,
Speaker 2: so he knew there's this something about that. It's just
Speaker 2: too convenient that to happen now. And then I'm not
Speaker 2: sure if that's how surage works.
Speaker 3: If that I wasn't either.
Speaker 1: It may be if anyone works in the.
Speaker 3: A sewage experts.
Speaker 2: Yes, if there are yasny at gmail dot com, I'll
Speaker 2: get us on the speak pipe.
Speaker 1: Let us know.
Speaker 3: Is that how it works exactly? Call Shane Jacobson and
Speaker 3: see what he knows. But but but I guess for me,
Speaker 3: I love the idea of the escape because it was
Speaker 3: the one up of it's the long game, you know,
Speaker 3: it's the perseverance, it's the hope beyond you know, despair.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's all about and I did enjoy uh.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it all the way up and when he
Speaker 3: it's when the rain's coming down and he stands up
Speaker 3: and he's covered and you know, he's not really covered,
Speaker 3: and shit, it's kind of out now off. Yeah yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: exactly exactly. And I loved all that. It's it's kind
Speaker 3: of a bat point onwards and and even pacing wise
Speaker 3: from that point onwards. I thought that sort of languid,
Speaker 3: that that sort of slow pace worked well in the
Speaker 3: prison thing in the prison environment, but when he brought
Speaker 3: a noted in the real world, it's suddenly felt a
Speaker 3: little different, like it was a bit like it is
Speaker 3: this a slow ending, Like it felt like a number
Speaker 3: of stops and starts towards the end where I didn't
Speaker 3: feel any of that within I mean, we're picking now,
Speaker 3: but I didn't feel any of that within the prison.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he kept the.
Speaker 3: Same pacing, this kind of slow, melodic pacing in the
Speaker 3: real world. Uh. And I jarred a bit for me
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I did love when Red gets out and
Speaker 2: you know, again, it took me to a place where
Speaker 2: it's like, Okay, he's read going to get through this
Speaker 2: we've seen Brooks. He goes to the same hotel. He
Speaker 2: gets up and he writes, yeah, read was he too?
Speaker 3: And I love the line where he says, ah, he
Speaker 3: turns to his boss and that when he's packing the
Speaker 3: groceries and says, can I go to the toilet? And
Speaker 3: the guy says, you don't have to ask me? And
Speaker 3: he did. The bole comes on and says I can't
Speaker 3: piss a drop without permission or whatever, and it's just see,
Speaker 3: I love that stuff because to me, it's you. You're
Speaker 3: you're sort of feeling the impact of the dehumanization inside
Speaker 3: and it's just so amplified on the outside. And then
Speaker 3: it makes you question a whole bunch of things. You know,
Speaker 3: it makes you question the difference between rehabilitation and incarceration.
Speaker 3: And you know, he's he should be redeemed at this
Speaker 3: stage because he's deserved his time. He seems like a
Speaker 3: good person. Yet he's still institutionalized even on the outside.
Speaker 3: And like, I don't know, as soon as we get
Speaker 3: to writing in the convertible and where do you get
Speaker 3: that convertible?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think it goes on GOT three one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy five thousand, dollars or something like that,
Speaker 2: which which to today's three and seventy thousand dollars today's
Speaker 2: money is two point nine million.
Speaker 1: That he would have walked away. Okay, so you've got
Speaker 1: a convertible. Ok, you got the convertible. OK.
Speaker 3: Well, he really should have given Morgan Freeman more money
Speaker 3: than the bus.
Speaker 1: He should it should have been a convertible weight he's.
Speaker 3: Got two million, he should have a convertible. Wait for
Speaker 3: Morgan Freeman or even a small plane take him down there.
Speaker 2: I did love that it was the He's only the
Speaker 2: second crime he's ever committed was breaking parole.
Speaker 1: I thought it was a nice touch.
Speaker 2: He finds he finds the oak tree where they made love,
Speaker 2: you know, unncessary detail, and.
Speaker 3: He SIPs through the dirt that had been there.
Speaker 1: That's related.
Speaker 2: Say how many times you got his?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? So and then and then there is
Speaker 1: a letter. Let's have listened to the letter.
Speaker 3: H H.
Speaker 5: Dear Red. If you're reading this, you've gotten out, and
Speaker 5: if you've come this far, maybe you're willing to come
Speaker 5: a little further. You remember the name of the town,
Speaker 5: don't you.
Speaker 3: Say?
Speaker 1: Waked in Nil.
Speaker 15: I could use a good man to help me get
Speaker 15: my project on wheels.
Speaker 5: I'll keep an eye out for you and the chessboard. Ready,
Speaker 5: Remember red Hope is a good thing, maybe the best
Speaker 5: of things, and no good thing ever dies.
Speaker 14: I will be hoping that this.
Speaker 5: Letter finds you and finds you well, your friend Andy.
Speaker 2: The lovely little touch that Morgan Freeman does when he
Speaker 2: gets the letter and then when he gets the money,
Speaker 2: is he he looks around.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, exactly. He's been in praising for his line
Speaker 3: someone getting me in.
Speaker 1: An open field, and he's still looking around for prison wardens.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's I mean, it's It's a gorgeous moment, isn't it.
Speaker 2: And you wonder, you wonder if if Andy dies in
Speaker 2: this film. I like the idea if we're you know,
Speaker 2: to reach into your thoughts, if I think you want
Speaker 2: to see Andy get out of short shame, and like
Speaker 2: you said, maybe he does die on the way out.
Speaker 3: Where he dies. Try Hope is last for Andy.
Speaker 1: Yes, But but Red Red does get it, and Red
Speaker 1: finds the redemption and and and and and signs up
Speaker 1: for hope. Yes, I feel like that's that that does
Speaker 1: work for us.
Speaker 3: The greatest films much loves on the planet. But since
Speaker 3: we are like cutting it up a bit. That's how
Speaker 3: I felt towards the end, and I'm probably not alone
Speaker 3: in people that thought the ending was a bit not pollyannish.
Speaker 3: But it was a little bit not even that it
Speaker 3: would be expected, it was just a little bit American.
Speaker 2: Well, there's no doubt this film does tow a line
Speaker 2: where it could have so easily have have tippled over
Speaker 2: into mawkish kind of land. You know, it's it's it's
Speaker 2: a fine balance.
Speaker 1: I think they get it right.
Speaker 3: And it's not markets though. I mean that is a
Speaker 3: good but you know, that is a good point. I
Speaker 3: don't think it goes there, but it starts to towards
Speaker 3: the end. It is certainly nowhere there throughout until the
Speaker 3: very end of my.
Speaker 2: Mind because it because it has balanced effect, you know,
Speaker 2: with with some pretty violence beatings and you assaults, So
Speaker 2: there is there is that which I think does really
Speaker 2: help it. Before we go, I got I got some
Speaker 2: fun facts, like you said, Tom Tom Cruise almost played Andy,
Speaker 2: and that was because Rob Ryiner was going to almost
Speaker 2: direc this what he wanted to. So I mentioned before
Speaker 2: Darrabant had directed a short film called Woman in the Room.
Speaker 2: He was keen to get out of horror. Rob Rainer
Speaker 2: loved the book as well, which this is a comes from.
Speaker 2: It's a short story Stephen King could read a Hayworth
Speaker 2: and the short Redemption, and it's in a book called
Speaker 2: Different Seasons. It's got four different short stories in it.
Speaker 2: Three of the short stories have been made in the films.
Speaker 2: One is a one called app to People, which Brian
Speaker 2: Singer did in the in the nineties. The other one
Speaker 2: is another classic stand by Me is from that book.
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what the fourth story is there,
Speaker 2: but it has not.
Speaker 3: It has not one with the clowns.
Speaker 1: It's not clo.
Speaker 2: That's a full on that is a full on book itself,
Speaker 2: so it's not that one. Not sure what I'm not
Speaker 2: sure what that one is. But next time, okay, you're
Speaker 2: gonna come back and we'll do those devils, watch it.
Speaker 2: He There are some other casting options. Certainly Tim Robbins
Speaker 2: was not the first choice. Tom Cruise I rober Owner
Speaker 2: was going to do it, and then Jeff Bridges was considered,
Speaker 2: Kevin Costner, Matthew Broderick, Nick Cage and the other big
Speaker 2: one who it was literally offered to, and he chose
Speaker 2: to do another film that year was Tom Hanks, and
Speaker 2: he chose to do a little film called Forrest Gump,
Speaker 2: which he wins the Oscar for Yeah, of course Red
Speaker 2: was going to be played potentially well. Some of the
Speaker 2: ideas were Clint Eastwood, Harrison Ford, Paul Newman, Robert Redford
Speaker 2: and Sydney Pointier, who actually knocked it back because he
Speaker 2: thought playing a black man in prison wasn't necessarily helping
Speaker 2: stereotype stereotypes. So he said, no, it's funny actually because
Speaker 2: he's such a Red. I think he's seen it's such
Speaker 2: a dignified kind of.
Speaker 1: Character in that film that like farbi for me to
Speaker 1: disagree with his to Poitier, but I think he would
Speaker 1: have been amazing in that role. The young, the young.
Speaker 2: The photo of young Red is actually the photo we
Speaker 2: see when he with his parole meetings. He's actually young
Speaker 2: Alfonso Freeman, which is Morgan's son.
Speaker 3: It did it jarred with me every time because I
Speaker 3: was like, that's not him. Even back then, like I
Speaker 3: kept thinking that's not him.
Speaker 2: He kept showing you want to as an actor, you know, surely,
Speaker 2: but maybe not. Maybe I was thinking Morgan for probably
Speaker 2: would have had some head shots they could have used,
Speaker 2: but maybe he was smiling or maybe had his his
Speaker 2: hands on his hand on his chin or something, which
Speaker 2: doesn't work as for a mog shot. He's also in
Speaker 2: the prison yard when he comes in there, they're talking
Speaker 2: about they're going fishing, and he's doing a mock kind
Speaker 2: of reeling somebody in here, So he's in it twice.
Speaker 2: It's a Roger Deakins, who I'm sure you you know.
Speaker 2: He's one of the great cinematographers. This his first Academy
Speaker 2: Award nomination. He's been nominated for many many times. He
Speaker 2: basically does all the current Brothers films. He did nineteen
Speaker 2: seventeen with Sam Mendez, recently later on a twenty forty
Speaker 2: nine So Carrio Prisoners. Like I said, all the the
Speaker 2: Coen Brothers film sky Fall, The Assassination of Jesse James,
Speaker 2: and the Cow Robert Ford. I think he finally wins
Speaker 2: his first one. He got he famously kept on missing out,
Speaker 2: and then I'm pretty sure he got his first one
Speaker 2: for No Country, for Old Man Redemption.
Speaker 1: He was the Deacons Redemption.
Speaker 2: He also does a podcast if you're interested, with his wife,
Speaker 2: who's like in I think it's got team Deacons. His
Speaker 2: wife works closely with him to help put the crew
Speaker 2: together and they do a really interesting podcast together for
Speaker 2: those for tho I was interested and just I talked
Speaker 2: a lot about the year nineteen ninety nine been one
Speaker 2: of the greatest movie years ever. Had films like Being
Speaker 2: John Malkovic, Three Kings, Magnolia, The Matrix, a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of eat films were released in ninety ninety nine, but
Speaker 2: there's something to be said about nineteen ninety four, where
Speaker 2: this film is released for like pure like crab pleasing movies.
Speaker 2: The five nominations for Best Picture that year were Forrest Gump,
Speaker 2: Four Weddings and a Funeral, a rare comedy nomination, quiz
Speaker 2: Show Robert Redford and saying it refines really good show.
Speaker 2: But maybe that hasn't lived in the public's memory as
Speaker 2: much as the the other ones, Shawshack, Redemption, and Pulp Fiction.
Speaker 1: Yeah amazing, that's a strong field.
Speaker 3: That's a strong field.
Speaker 2: So and Tom Hanks Wings, Forrest Gump and Yeah, and
Speaker 2: also other other movies that year with Lion King Hans
Speaker 2: Zimmer wins the score for that, Bullets Over Broadway, the
Speaker 2: Three Colors Trilogy, or atleast the Blue One came out
Speaker 2: that year. True Lies, Speed is a pretty a pretty
Speaker 2: good year, A pretty good year.
Speaker 1: Mate.
Speaker 2: You are you're as busy as as they come. You
Speaker 2: have just wrapped on your latest doc Oat series, which
Speaker 2: is which you do some terrifying things. I'm often privately
Speaker 2: concerned about.
Speaker 3: You ask this is fine, this is all about the internet.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, but now it's changing, This could be changing
Speaker 3: our brain.
Speaker 1: This could be the most terrifying one you've done. Maybe
Speaker 1: to watch.
Speaker 3: I think it'll be a shocker for a lot of parents,
Speaker 3: but hopefully it's useful, is all.
Speaker 1: It's much needed.
Speaker 2: It is the battle, you know, the amount of conversations
Speaker 2: I have with friends who are parents, and the amount
Speaker 2: of conversations we have on the project.
Speaker 1: Very rarely do we have.
Speaker 2: Answers and and so I can't wait to watch it.
Speaker 2: But how did you how did you find making it?
Speaker 3: Is? It?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 3: It is confronting as our father and as someone who
Speaker 3: is swimming in the digital world and struggling with my
Speaker 3: own digital habits. It was a bit shocking. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: The opening of the film is pretty hardcore, like, it's
Speaker 3: pretty full on. There will be a lot of conversation
Speaker 3: it's off the opening. I think people will just be
Speaker 3: wanting to talk with their kids about it, and there'll
Speaker 3: be a lot of sheepish kids looking to the floor,
Speaker 3: pretending they know nothing about what they're seeing, but knowing
Speaker 3: everything about what they're seeing.
Speaker 1: So do you suggest watching it with you? It's open.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some sections that are a little bit hard
Speaker 3: to watch. But this is the thing, right, this is
Speaker 3: their world. Yeah, the parents will be shocked even say it.
Speaker 3: I have a line in there where I say before
Speaker 3: I said, what you're about to see is concerning and
Speaker 3: in some cases graphic. So for the parents in the room,
Speaker 3: this is a warning. For the kids in the room,
Speaker 3: you know what's coming.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's great and.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and that's the point, is the sort of
Speaker 3: duality of lives we live. You know, we're kids, on
Speaker 3: average these days are spending forty to fifty hours a
Speaker 3: week on TikTok, you know, or on social media. And
Speaker 3: they live in that world and we don't. Because we
Speaker 3: lived in a world where we had an option. You know,
Speaker 3: we lived in the world. I lived in the world
Speaker 3: where the phone at one stage was attached to the wall,
Speaker 3: so in there was there was no internet so unique.
Speaker 2: Am I am now often be mused and I'm guilty
Speaker 2: of it as well. Like we we do see screens
Speaker 2: as as a kid's problem, you know, or a problem
Speaker 2: facing our kids. But but it's not, it's not it's
Speaker 2: it's it's all of us and and.
Speaker 3: And the film is my film is not directed directly
Speaker 3: at kids, for everything is about us. As you know,
Speaker 3: there's four point six billion people trapped in this experiment
Speaker 3: controlled by a handful of white men. Yeah, that's just
Speaker 3: the reality we live in right now, a handful of
Speaker 3: primarily white American men, four point six billion people. It's
Speaker 3: not a small amount, you know, that's not that's not
Speaker 3: just kids, no, And it's not just Australia or America.
Speaker 1: And it's a yeah, and it is a it's a
Speaker 1: strategic beast.
Speaker 2: You know when you as soon as you know, you
Speaker 2: know it was probably recently ago we started learning about
Speaker 2: algorithms and how how how we're targeted, and it's this
Speaker 2: is this is, like I said, a strategic and we.
Speaker 3: Live in an algorithmic world now that is beyond a
Speaker 3: humans apprehension. You know, Jeff Sieberts in the film, and
Speaker 3: he was in the Social dilemma. And he was the
Speaker 3: former head of product at Twitter, and we're in the
Speaker 3: valley and he was explaining. He said, oh, there is
Speaker 3: a human alife that understands these algorithms. There's self learning machines.
Speaker 3: They're off. And here's the crazy part. We're just at
Speaker 3: the foothills. If we don't get regulation and if we
Speaker 3: don't wake up to what's going on, we're just at
Speaker 3: the beginning. We're just right at the beginning. You know.
Speaker 3: The where this could go is you know, people say, oh,
Speaker 3: are you being alarmist? Yes, there's an alarm involved, but
Speaker 3: I think we just need to be realistic where we are.
Speaker 3: It's like smoking. We went all those years thinking smoking
Speaker 3: was good for us. Doctor is on air telling us
Speaker 3: smoking's fine, don't worry, I smoke. And now we look
Speaker 3: back at that and go and legislation passed to protect smoking.
Speaker 3: And now we look back at that and go, oh, God,
Speaker 3: we should have protected our generation of children from this.
Speaker 3: The reason we regulate advertising from kids. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: the same thing we need to regulate.
Speaker 2: It's the thing I think about most as a parent.
Speaker 2: It really is like, am I going to Yeah, those
Speaker 2: conversations are almost oh my yeah, one of my kids
Speaker 2: coming to me. And you know, I've got a twenty
Speaker 2: year old on the sevene year old and I feel
Speaker 2: like they've navigated that pretty well. I've got a fourteen
Speaker 2: year old who are more concerned about well.
Speaker 3: I highly recommend it. It's out next week. I think
Speaker 3: next week week after the tenth. If you're on a Monday,
Speaker 3: I think, if you can get your kids around the screen,
Speaker 3: do it, man. It'll be a really good conversation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think, and lots of practical tips on things we
Speaker 3: can do as parents or as individuals to help kind
Speaker 3: of mitigate some of the damage that's happening.
Speaker 1: Are you saying, Todd, that you're giving us some hope?
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's hope definitely. The second half of the film's ouf.
Speaker 3: The first half is very shosh. It's all going downhill.
Speaker 3: Second a half act to Act one, oh boy, Act
Speaker 3: two start to come up. Act three we're off.
Speaker 2: So it's early on it's hope is a dangerous thing.
Speaker 2: And then then it's like, no, you need hope.
Speaker 1: You need hope, Randy, you need help, red thanks mate.
Speaker 1: Well there you go.
Speaker 2: That is Todd Sam's in the show Shank Redemption we
Speaker 2: finally found somebody and who hadn't seen it, and I'm
Speaker 2: so glad it was Todd because he's such he's a
Speaker 2: filmmaker himself, and he loves film, and he always is
Speaker 2: so insightful and fascinating with what he has to say
Speaker 2: in his observation. So that was that was really fun.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm relieved that he loved it because I know
Speaker 2: a lot of you love it. I love it. Not
Speaker 2: many people I know have what Shawshank redemption come away,
Speaker 2: you're not enjoying it, So great news for Shaw Shank fans. Yeah, really, really,
Speaker 2: really a whole bunch of fun. Derek Myyes, is my
Speaker 2: co pilot here. He runs Castaway Studios. If you're looking
Speaker 2: for a somewhere to do a podcast, whether it's in here,
Speaker 2: in the studios, or even remotely, get onto Derek my
Speaker 2: Castways Studios dot com dot au. Derek, you're a show
Speaker 2: Shank fan? Shortly, yeah, everyone is. Everybody is, Yeah.
Speaker 17: But I Reckon a prison movie fan. I probably didn't
Speaker 17: realize it till till I started to them. I just
Speaker 17: looked up a bit of a list before I found
Speaker 17: a website called prisonmovies dot net.
Speaker 1: Right, right, and it's.
Speaker 14: It is phenomenal, like it has like the top five
Speaker 14: hundred prison.
Speaker 2: What are the other ones that you like that you
Speaker 2: speak to you with the Birdman of Alcatraz, I really enjoyed.
Speaker 14: Yeah, so a lot of them as a kid affect.
Speaker 17: You know, you're talking about the high school thing, and
Speaker 17: I agree with you there that fascination with American high school.
Speaker 14: That's another world and it's good.
Speaker 17: I think that the underside of that, if you like
Speaker 17: of that, is like, oh my god, don't get caught.
Speaker 17: You grow up with watching prisoner going don't look too
Speaker 17: bad really, and then you see Papillon, you know, or Okay,
Speaker 17: that's a bad example.
Speaker 14: It's not.
Speaker 17: It's not American, but you see this Alcatraz stuff and
Speaker 17: all all this stuff with proper not just how bad
Speaker 17: prison is, but real horrendous corruption and stuff like that.
Speaker 17: I was a huge fan of brew Baker, right, Robert Redford, Okay,
Speaker 17: put that on the list.
Speaker 14: Love love Brew Baker and as a cool hand Luke fan.
Speaker 1: Cool hand, Luke, I love. I'm like, I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to doing that.
Speaker 17: Brew Baker is it's about a guy who's a criminologist
Speaker 17: and he gets the job as a governor obviously as
Speaker 17: they would say, liberal or lefty kind of new governor,
Speaker 17: and he goes in undercover as a prisoners. It's pretty tense,
Speaker 17: probably thirty years since I've seen it, but absolutely love
Speaker 17: that Baker Brew Baker put it on.
Speaker 2: Get onto that now you can get onto us through
Speaker 2: our speak pipe, Yes, a speak pipe. If you follow
Speaker 2: the links on our pages, you'll find it and you
Speaker 2: can leave us a message where we can hear your
Speaker 2: your dollsic tones.
Speaker 1: And I believe we have one today, Derek.
Speaker 14: Yes, we've got Jason Carter sent one.
Speaker 3: Through jas by Guys.
Speaker 18: Jason here. Just want to let you both know that
Speaker 18: loving the podcast. Although I'm struggling through fear and loathing
Speaker 18: in Las Vegas at the moment, it's one that.
Speaker 14: I've got to catch up on.
Speaker 18: There's been a few lately that I haven't actually seen,
Speaker 18: and one of the cool things about the podcast is
Speaker 18: it's got me to pull my finger out and go
Speaker 18: and watch a few movies that I haven't made the
Speaker 18: effort to do on the path. So going pretty good,
Speaker 18: although I'm struggling with fear and loathing, so I'll get
Speaker 18: through it and then I can listen to that ed.
Speaker 3: Remember a while.
Speaker 18: Ago you mentioned that you had a few guests that
Speaker 18: you wanted to have on, but you were struggling to
Speaker 18: find a movie that hadn't seen and I just wanted
Speaker 18: to throw out there. Maybe you could try some of
Speaker 18: the original movies that won the Best Picture awards at
Speaker 18: the Academy Awards, things like Grand Hotel and Cimarron, which
Speaker 18: they're interesting movies. I don't know where the hell you'd
Speaker 18: find them. I think Cimmarron. I hide it on VHS
Speaker 18: from a library about ten years ago, so it'll be
Speaker 18: out there somewhere. But something different and give you a
Speaker 18: chance to get I think Lucky Hume was someone that
Speaker 18: you mentioned. Give you a chance to get some of
Speaker 18: those guys on the pod. So but I'm keep it up,
Speaker 18: really enjoying it.
Speaker 1: Catch it later, Thanks Jace. What a great suggestion.
Speaker 2: We have struggled to get one that Lucky Hume definitely,
Speaker 2: even though he had some legal blonde and I try
Speaker 2: to pitch that, but he.
Speaker 1: Not that it knock that on its head.
Speaker 2: But Grand Hotel and Cimmaron are great suggestions I know
Speaker 2: we have and we're trying to lock down a time.
Speaker 2: But Hamish Blake will be coming on the show, and
Speaker 2: he'll be He'll be doing a film that, to be
Speaker 2: absolutely honest, I hadn't heard of, and I won't mention
Speaker 2: it just yet. I'll mention it as soon as we
Speaker 2: confirm it that he'll be appearing and it's recorded. I
Speaker 2: don't want to get into the Judith Flucy situation of
Speaker 2: saying she'd be doing sound of music for years and
Speaker 2: years and years until we finally do it. So but
Speaker 2: that's in that I think it's in that genre of
Speaker 2: really films that a lot of people maybe wouldn't have
Speaker 2: even heard of. So I'm happy to put Grand Hotel
Speaker 2: and Cimmarron on the list that they are great suggestions.
Speaker 1: Good Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: I kind of felt like I wanted to yell at
Speaker 2: the Jason there because of course, the Fear and Loathing
Speaker 2: in Las Vegas episode was a bit controversial because our
Speaker 2: guest Dan Connell was supposed to watch Lost in Translation
Speaker 2: but accidentally watched Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I hadn't, well,
Speaker 2: I have seen it, but I was operating a lot
Speaker 2: on recall as opposed to my extensive deep diving that
Speaker 2: I like to do on these films. So yes, Jase,
Speaker 2: if you listening to this, I hope you got through it, okay, mate,
Speaker 2: And I hope you enjoyed that episode. So we had
Speaker 2: a great time with Dan despite the mix up coming
Speaker 2: up and you ain't say nothing yet. Next week, well,
Speaker 2: I thought we've had some big guess Darren Hayes. A
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, we had obviously Todd Sampson. Today
Speaker 2: it's some of a giant to be Australian television scene.
Speaker 2: We've already had Cat Stewart early in the year, Sushi Mango,
Speaker 2: Glenn Robbins, Bloody Hell. Next week we have a Gold
Speaker 2: Logi nomine a woman who's always, always, always funny, Julia Morris,
Speaker 2: the host co host of I'm a Celebrity to Get
Speaker 2: Me out of Here. She's one of the funniest people
Speaker 2: in this country. I adore her. She's so entertaining and
Speaker 2: she will be watching for the very first time, believe
Speaker 2: it or not, the Adam Sandler classic Happy Gilmore. Yes,
Speaker 2: after Shaw Shank, we are lightning things up again with
Speaker 2: a comedy that really launched Adam Sandler to the world.
Speaker 2: We've discussed Adam Sandler a bit on this podcast, people
Speaker 2: have different reactions to him, so it'd be interesting to
Speaker 2: see Julia's take. Obviously she knows who Adam Sandler is,
Speaker 2: but this is a film that I think endeared him
Speaker 2: to the world. That's next week, Julia Morris, Happy Gilmore
Speaker 2: sharring Adam Sandler. Make sure you're tune in for that,
Speaker 2: and before we go, a little different outro this week.
Speaker 2: This is dedicated to my good mate Todd Samson. Thanks
Speaker 2: for joining us, Todd. This is the score from Debbie.
Speaker 1: Does tell us enjoy.
Speaker 11: Even be reading me?
Speaker 5: Int