1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:05,440
Speaker 1: Already and the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh

2
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: now it makes sense.

3
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,400
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

4
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:18,240
Speaker 2: the fourth of June.

5
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm Sam, I'm billy.

6
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,880
Speaker 2: Australia's Workplace Dispute Tribunal, the Fair Work Commission has delivered

7
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 2: a ruling in the case between journalist Antoinette Latouf and

8
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 2: the ABC. It ruled Latouf was indeed sacked by the ABC,

9
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 2: which had been disputed by the public broadcaster. This ruling

10
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 2: paves the way for Latouf to pursue a federal court

11
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 2: claim that her dismissal was unfair. It's a really major

12
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,839
Speaker 2: development in this case that made headlines at the end

13
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,640
Speaker 2: of last year. But in today's podcast, we're going to

14
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,200
Speaker 2: revisit what actually happened with Antonette Latouf at the ABC,

15
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 2: why she's taking legal action, and what happens next. But

16
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 2: first here's some headlines.

17
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,680
Speaker 1: Foreign Minister Penny Wong has back to seafire proposal from

18
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,880
Speaker 1: Israel announced by US President Joe Biden over the weekend,

19
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,840
Speaker 1: which is aimed at protecting civilians in Gaza. Biden outlined

20
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,520
Speaker 1: a planned temporary ceasefire over the weekend amid Israel's ongoing

21
00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: military offensive in Rafa in southern Gaza. In Senate estimates yesterday,

22
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 1: Wong said an immediate humanitarian cease fire is needed and

23
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 1: that the Australian government welcomed the proposal. Wong said, quote

24
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 1: what we have seen in Rauffa underlines why Australia and

25
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 1: the international community have been united in opposition.

26
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 2: The South Australian government will spend seven hundred and fifteen

27
00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,679
Speaker 2: million dollars over five years on early childhood education. It

28
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,279
Speaker 2: comes after a Royal Commission led by former Prime Minister

29
00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 2: Julia Gillard, made several recommendations last year to overhaul early

30
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 2: learning in the state. This includes a dedicated government department

31
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 2: to oversee changes and improved early childhood teacher degrees to

32
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 2: develop high quality staff. SA Premier Peter Malanaskis said the

33
00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:00,800
Speaker 2: funding will implement universal three year old preschool to reduce

34
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,760
Speaker 2: the number of South Australian children who start school behind

35
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,640
Speaker 2: their classmates.

36
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,720
Speaker 1: Election officials in India will begin counting nearly a billion

37
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: votes today following the country's recent election. Indian voters have

38
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 1: been polled in phases which started in April and wrapped

39
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,680
Speaker 1: up over the weekend. Exit polling predicts current Prime Minister

40
00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,359
Speaker 1: Nrandra Mardy will retain the leadership. Mardi has been in

41
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: office since twenty fourteen.

42
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 2: And today's good news, Simone Biles has made history winning

43
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 2: a record ninth all around title at the US Gymnastics Championships.

44
00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: The twenty seven year old claimed victory by almost six

45
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: points at the event in Texas. The win is also

46
00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 2: the seven time Olympic medalist ticket to the trials for

47
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,360
Speaker 2: the US Olympic team. And if you want more sports news,

48
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 2: sign up to our daily sports newsletter. I'll throw a

49
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,160
Speaker 2: link to that in today's show notes.

50
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 1: So, Sam, the big news today is that the Fair

51
00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 1: Work Commission has ruled that journalist Antoinette Latouf was indeed

52
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,359
Speaker 1: sacked by the ABC. But before we get to what

53
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: this ruling means, can you just explain the background of

54
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 1: this story, what happened.

55
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 2: So let's introduce Antonett latoof First, she's an Australian journalist.

56
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 2: She has been the host of The Briefing, which is

57
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 2: another news podcast. She's worked at Channel ten, SBS, Triple

58
00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 2: J and the ABC, and she's also written a book.

59
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,880
Speaker 1: She's a very accomplished journalist.

60
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and she's performed a whole lot of roles across

61
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 2: those networks, and the role at the center of this

62
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 2: story was a temporary job hosting a show on ABC

63
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:36,080
Speaker 2: Radio Sydney between the eighteenth and twenty second of December

64
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 2: last year, so just before Christmas. Now, Latouf was contracted

65
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 2: for those five days, but she was sent home on

66
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,320
Speaker 2: day three of the five days, the Wednesday, when ABC

67
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,160
Speaker 2: managers dismissed her for breaching the network's social media policy.

68
00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: And what did she post that the ABC says breached

69
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:53,240
Speaker 1: their policy.

70
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,360
Speaker 2: Well, the posting question was a repost on Latouf's personal

71
00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,680
Speaker 2: Instagram account of a photo published by Human Rights Watch,

72
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 2: which is a well known non government organization that alleged

73
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,040
Speaker 2: Israel was using starvation as a weapon of war in

74
00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,880
Speaker 2: its war against Hamas in Gaza. Now, according to the

75
00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 2: statement of claim, which is basically the ABC's account of

76
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,640
Speaker 2: what happened submitted by the ABC to the Fair Work Commission,

77
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,479
Speaker 2: the network said Latoof was taken off air quote because

78
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:21,479
Speaker 2: she failed or refused to comply with directions that she

79
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,280
Speaker 2: not post on social media about matters of controversy. But

80
00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 2: that's not how Latoof sees it. A statement from Latouf's

81
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,480
Speaker 2: lawyers alleges she was quote sacked because of her ethnicity.

82
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,440
Speaker 2: Latouf has Lebanese heritage and because the public broadcaster systemically

83
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 2: discriminates against people with Arab or Muslim backgrounds as well

84
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,200
Speaker 2: as other people of color.

85
00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,279
Speaker 1: So she's saying this is much bigger than her, and

86
00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,480
Speaker 1: she claims that the ABC has a history here when

87
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,119
Speaker 1: it comes to she says, discriminating against people of color,

88
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,919
Speaker 1: exactly right. And so she then decided to take action

89
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,040
Speaker 1: against the ABC for unfair dismissal.

90
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she took the ABC too, the Fair Work

91
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,280
Speaker 2: Commission over allegations of unlawful termination. So that's the particular

92
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 2: kind of law that's been breached here according to Latouf,

93
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,839
Speaker 2: and yesterday's news paves the way for that to actually

94
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,200
Speaker 2: go ahead to the federal court.

95
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,159
Speaker 1: So what happened yesterday? What did they find?

96
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 2: So this was kind of a precursor to Latouf bringing

97
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,080
Speaker 2: that unfair dismissal case against the ABC because there's one

98
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 2: key thing that needs to be established in order to

99
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,120
Speaker 2: even start the process of an unfair dismissal case. You

100
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: need to first prove that you were in fact dismissed.

101
00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,320
Speaker 2: And the parties disagreed in this situation on whether this

102
00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 2: was true or not. So on one hand, Latouf says

103
00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,040
Speaker 2: she was dismissed on the twentieth for what the ABC

104
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,400
Speaker 2: said was a breach of the social media policy as

105
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,599
Speaker 2: we just discussed. But the ABC argued that Latouf was

106
00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,400
Speaker 2: not dismissed because she was still paid for the full

107
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 2: five days even though she only completed three days of work.

108
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 2: And the ABC contended that it was legally allowed to

109
00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 2: ask Latouf to quote politely leave when she breach the

110
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 2: broadcast as social media policy. So they're kind of arguing

111
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:05,359
Speaker 2: that the contract kind of ran its course, ended on

112
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,599
Speaker 2: the Friday afternoon as normal, and that was the end

113
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 2: of that.

114
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: So the way I'm understanding it is Antoinette Latoufe is

115
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,480
Speaker 1: saying that she was unfairly dismissed, and what happened yesterday

116
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,359
Speaker 1: is that the Fair Work Commission confirmed that yes, she

117
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,839
Speaker 1: was dismissed, and now she needs to go to the

118
00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,520
Speaker 1: federal court to prove that it was unfair exactly.

119
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,160
Speaker 2: So looking forward, it's going to be about that word unfair.

120
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,279
Speaker 2: Looking backwards, it's about that word dismissed, and the Fair

121
00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 2: Work Commission rejected the argument put forward by the ABC,

122
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,600
Speaker 2: and instead they found that Latoufe was indeed dismissed during

123
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 2: that meeting on December twenty. They weren't concerned with the

124
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 2: unfair or fairness of that dismissal. It was just focused

125
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,680
Speaker 2: on whether she was dismissed or not.

126
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:47,760
Speaker 1: And when you say they weren't concerned, it was just

127
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,359
Speaker 1: the Fair Work Commission's role in this, yeah, was to

128
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,839
Speaker 1: prove whether or not she was dismissed, But they don't

129
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,200
Speaker 1: deal with the unfair component.

130
00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,800
Speaker 2: That's for the federal court exactly. And one key piece

131
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 2: of evidence that the Fair Work Commission relied upon in

132
00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 2: they're ruling was that Latouf wasn't actually told in the

133
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 2: meeting that she would be paid the remainder of that week.

134
00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 2: That came later. Now in the judgment, the Commission's deputy president,

135
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 2: so think of that as kind of a judge said

136
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 2: quote the applicant. So Latouf was not allocated any further

137
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,520
Speaker 2: or other work to perform, and she was asked to

138
00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 2: politely leave sooner rather than later, the ABC premises. Now

139
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 2: it also said that the ABC didn't respond to an

140
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,080
Speaker 2: email sent by Latouf after she was dismissed asking why

141
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 2: her post breached the guidelines. And here the judgment said

142
00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,480
Speaker 2: the ABC did not reply to the applicant's clarification email

143
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: at all, let alone confirm or deny that the applicants

144
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,920
Speaker 2: remained employed by the ABC. So, as you said before,

145
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 2: it wasn't up to the Commission at this stage to

146
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 2: look at the question of whether this dismissal was unfair

147
00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 2: or not. That's now where we're headed.

148
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 1: Right, So looking forward what happens now?

149
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,720
Speaker 2: So now Latouf is clear to sue the ABC in

150
00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 2: the Federal Court of Australia for breaching its employee agreement

151
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 2: with her by quote sacking her without a proper basis

152
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 2: and without due process, and the ABC has rejected both

153
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 2: of those claims, and Latouf is going to be seeking

154
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 2: compensation for harm to her reputation, distress and humiliation, and

155
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 2: she also wants an apology from the ABC and court

156
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: to her argument in this case is the suggestion that

157
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,600
Speaker 2: ABC management was under massive outside pressure from pro Israel

158
00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 2: lobbyists who had contacted management with e leaked chain of

159
00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 2: WhatsApp messages from a group called Lawyers for Israel, featuring

160
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 2: in media reports about Latoof's dismissal earlier this year. Now,

161
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 2: the ABC did say they did receive many complaints about

162
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 2: Latouf during that time, but that the complaints did not

163
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 2: contribute to the decision to taking her off the air.

164
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: Right, So, the ABC is acknowledging that they did get

165
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,079
Speaker 1: a lot of messages, but they claimed that that didn't influence.

166
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,200
Speaker 2: Their decision exactly. And now it's up to the federal

167
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,000
Speaker 2: court to really try and ascertain from the evidence in

168
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,120
Speaker 2: front of them why Latouf was sacked and if that

169
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:02,680
Speaker 2: was legal or not right.

170
00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: And have we heard from Latouf since the Fair Work

171
00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,360
Speaker 1: Commission's decision yesterday?

172
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we heard. A couple of hours after the decision,

173
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 2: she released a statement on x saying that she was

174
00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 2: quote pleased with the outcome. She said she quote believes

175
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,439
Speaker 2: the ABC's challenge was a waste of taxpayers money, causing

176
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 2: unnecessary delays in her pursuit of truth and justice, and

177
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,120
Speaker 2: that she remains bitterly disappointed that she was fired for

178
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 2: posting a fact The ABC itself was also reporting a very.

179
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,280
Speaker 1: Interesting it is. Yeah, clearly we're at the first step

180
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,679
Speaker 1: of this potentially very long court process.

181
00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of uncertainties about this case,

182
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,079
Speaker 2: but I think the one thing you can say almost

183
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,080
Speaker 2: for certain is that this is going to take some time.

184
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 1: Sam. Thank you so much for explaining that to us,

185
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,439
Speaker 1: of course, and thank you so much for listening. If

186
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,559
Speaker 1: you would like to hear more from the Daily Ods,

187
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,400
Speaker 1: please press follow on either Apple or Spotify. It makes

188
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 1: sure that an episode is waiting for you every morning,

189
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,559
Speaker 1: and it also helps the Daily Ohs grow. Thank you

190
00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 1: so much and we will be back tomorrow.

191
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

192
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 2: bunjelung Caalguton woman from Gadighl Country.

193
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

194
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

195
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay

196
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

197
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:22,720
Speaker 1: past and present.