1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers. 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: Now, Well, Kylie, I know it was only two weeks 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: ago that This Week in Parenting was booming out of 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: our podcast feet. But guess what, you've got some more infos. Oh, 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: there's more stuff happening. The pairing world has gone a 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: bit bonkers in the last couple of weeks, and I 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: just think every now and again, we've got to talk 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: about the hot issues, the big issues, the stuff that 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: parents are becoming ignited about. I think that's the word 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to use, ignite it. I have two big stories. 12 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: I've mentioned them both to you briefly. One of them 13 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: has to do with intimacy and a book that was 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: published recently and then pulled off the shelves of Big 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: w we'll talk about that. And we've also got a 16 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrist speaking with Ben Fordham, who is all in 17 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: favor of whacking our kids. Where do we start. 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 2: You're not going to talk about Barbie, Well, we. 19 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: Haven't seen it. It's on the list, you know what 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: we're supposed to be talking about. Barbie. I want to 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: talk about Barbie, but I can't bring myself to watch 22 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: the movie. I'll see you on a mallible. We've had 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: this conversation the other night. You said to me, can 24 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: we please go and watch Barbie? And what was my response? 25 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: I'd rather die. 26 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty much what I said. Kill me now, 27 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: just no. And yet I know we're supposed to watch 28 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: it so that we can jump onto the podcast and 29 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: tell everybody about it. 30 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: So here's the funny thing. I'm not interested in it 31 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: one iota no, but there is so much hype about it. 32 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: I know I actually want to go and see it 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: just to prove that all the hype is just paid advertisements. 34 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: And I actually have a belief that the quality of 35 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: the movie is usually directly proportional to the amount of 36 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: advertising spend on it. So they're spending a lot of 37 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: money on this, which means that it must absolutely stink. 38 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: That's my but I haven't seen it. 39 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: Our fifteen year old did see it, yeah, and she 40 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: actually came home and she looked at us and she said, 41 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: I'm not actually sure if there was a storyline, but 42 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: there was just lots of funny moments. 43 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: I've read the reviews common Sense Media, which is one 44 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: of the great places you can go to get reviews. 45 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: And I said, this strain Council on Children in the Media, 46 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: the am here in Australia, so common sense Media said 47 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: it's for kids' eleven plus, but reading the parent reviews, 48 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: they're horrified. They're saying there's a lot of innuendo that 49 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: we haven't seen it anyway, Suffice it to say, I 50 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: don't think we can talk about Barbie. 51 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: Well, you're gonna have to get a pink shirt. Everyone 52 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: wears pink when they go to see Barbi. 53 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: I can wear my pink collared shirt, huh, because I'm 54 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: not going to go and buy her shirt from a 55 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: movie that I don't even want to see. I know 56 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: this week comparing, we've got the two topics we have 57 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: to talk about. But just quickly, the other night, you 58 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: begged to watch a movie and I acquiesced, and I said, arlotte' 59 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: watch a movie. So you picked something on Netflix and 60 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: we sat down to watch it. And why don't you 61 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 1: tell everyone how I go when a movie is on 62 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: the TV. 63 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 2: You started scrolling yeah, and then I zoned out completely, 64 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: and then. 65 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: I switched it off and said, can we just go 66 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: to bed and hut like anything? Other than staring at 67 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: the television. I hate it. I don't. It's got to 68 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 1: be a really good movie. It's got to be a provocative, 69 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: thought provoking creat it's going to be a masterpiece, or 70 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: I can't watch it. That's how I am with movies. So, Barbie, 71 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: I just have a sense it's not a masterpiece, Honey. 72 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: Not a masterpiece, I don't believe. 73 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 2: So, wow, that's a big statement. 74 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: I'm comfortable standing behind that one. You know what. Let's 75 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: see Barbie this weekend and then we'll talk about it 76 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 1: next week on the pod. 77 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well you've teased it. 78 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Which one do you want to go with? 79 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: We've got to talk about Umi Stein's book, Welcome to Sex. 80 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: Okay, So you me and Melissa Kang, who was an 81 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Associate Professor in General Practice like GP in the clinical 82 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: school in the GPE Clinical School at Sydney Medical School. 83 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: She used to be the Dolly doctor. So you've already. 84 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: Got me a little bit nervous about where this book's going. 85 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Right, and this is the thing. Right as soon as 86 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: you mention Dolly Doctor, you know that there's going to 87 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: be content there that's going to have parents clutching their 88 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: Pearls ABC personality Umi Steins has come under fire for 89 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: a book she co authored about sex aimed at children 90 00:03:58,720 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: as young as eight. 91 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 3: So often these things start getting into things that aren't 92 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 3: about A plus B equals. See, there's stuff that's about 93 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 3: gender identity. Lots of these other things issue here that 94 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 3: are frankly, far more complicated to start to introduce to 95 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: a kid at a time when traditionally we've been talking 96 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 3: about the most basic parts of how humans are made. 97 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: So my biggest concern is this book is a book 98 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,159 Speaker 2: that's aimed for ten to fifteen year old, So that's 99 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: a massive, massive gap between what a ten year old 100 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 2: needs to hear and what a fifteen year old is 101 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: going to be talking about and wanting to know. That's 102 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: the first thing. But the second thing is this is 103 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 2: actually sex education not guided by parents, but literally by 104 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: two authors. And yes they have some credentials in the area, 105 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 2: but I would have thought that what would have been 106 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: more appropriate is arming parents with the ability to have 107 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 2: these kinds sessions with the kids instead of literally taking 108 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: the parents out of the equation. 109 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: Okay, my take on this. If you have children listening, 110 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: this is the bit where you do press pause, because 111 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: I am going to be explicit and I'm going to 112 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: tell you exactly what is in the book. And this 113 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: is why there are some critics who are saying this 114 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: is not for kids. So there are some small and 115 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: they are small sections of the book that address all 116 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: kinds of well in twenty twenty three, the term that 117 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: I would use would be inclusive sexual practices. That would 118 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: be the twenty twenty three term for it. So we're 119 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 1: not just talking about penetrative penis and vagina inter course. 120 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: We're talking about fingering, we're talking about oral sex, We're 121 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: talking about scissoring, we're talking about anal sex, sixty nine ying. 122 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: There are arrange things that some people may be hearing 123 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: me say those things and saying, what on earth is that? 124 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: Please don't google it. Okay, don't google it if you're 125 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: not sure what it is. There are other ways to 126 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: find out. Maybe you could buy the book, just not 127 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: from the bookshelves in Big w Becau has been removed 128 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: for the bookshelves. Critics are also saying that gender ideology 129 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: forms a part of this book and that there are 130 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: some things there that are quite challenging when it comes 131 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: to gender and inclusion. But those who are supporting it 132 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: are saying, all this is actually a and this is 133 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: a direct quote that I've got here, a frank age 134 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: appropriate introductory guide. This is what the book says to 135 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: sex and sexuality for teens of all genders, inclusive, reassuring, 136 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: and all about keeping sex fun, real and shame free. 137 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: So going down a totally different road. For parents who 138 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: are dealing with gender identity challenges within their home, a 139 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: book like this is going to be, I guess, a 140 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: breath of fresh air because there's not a lot available 141 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: to parents as resources. The challenge I have, as I 142 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: stated earlier, is that this doesn't seem to be a 143 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: resource for parents. Well, this has been written specifically for children. 144 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: But where did I come from? Which is the book 145 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: that many of us were raised with was also not 146 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: a book for parents. It was a book to handle 147 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: the kids and say, hey, why don't you read this? 148 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: This is my parent expert take on this. So number one, 149 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: sex education for our children and young people is valuable. 150 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: But I think that we've got a concern when we've 151 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: got Umi saying I'd be happy with a maturer eight 152 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: year old having a flip through this. Wow, I don't 153 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: feel good about that when people are saying, this is 154 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: a book for ten to fifteen year olds and we've 155 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: got that kind of content. No, it's not a book 156 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: for eight to ten or even maybe ten to twelve 157 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: year olds. So the thing is it is a book 158 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: for some of them. And the reason I say that 159 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: is because in some households, they're being exposed to this 160 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: kind of content one way or another, whether it's a 161 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: big brother who's left a screen open when he was 162 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: looking at content that was not for him, or anybody 163 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: else for that matter. We've got conversations happening in playgrounds 164 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: around schools. This content is coming up regularly, and some 165 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: of our younger kids, even in that ten twelve thirteen 166 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: age group, a thirteen year age group, they are coming 167 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: across it. So I would much rather than get it 168 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: from Melissa Kaying and Yumi Steins than from Google or 169 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: porn Hub. But the reality is that the majority of 170 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: our eight to ten to twelve year olds are not 171 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: coming across these terms, not at that age, and they 172 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: don't need this book at that age. Therefore, I think 173 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: that it's important for parents to just be discerning and 174 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: be willing to have the conversations yourself, and then when 175 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: the kids are old enough, when they come home and 176 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: they say, as my sister did one time after she 177 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: came back from ponycamp. I think she was about ten 178 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: or eleven, Hey, mum, what's sixty ninety? She said it 179 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: to my mum in front of a customer in my 180 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: mum's furniture store as Mum was trying to serve this person, 181 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: and Mum said, not now, and my sister kept saying, 182 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: but Mum, what's sixteen? Like she asked about fifteen times 183 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,080 Speaker 1: because the big kids at ponycamp were talking about it 184 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't tell my sister what it was. My 185 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: poor mum, can you imagine, And bear in mind this 186 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: is back in the nineteen eighties, so she would have 187 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: just been dying on the inside, this poor, poor situation 188 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: going on. This is not a book for little kids, 189 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: and even for for the younger age group of that 190 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: ten to fifteen. But as kids get older, they do 191 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: hear about this stuff, and I want them to hear 192 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: from reputable places and reputable people. 193 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: We talk about kids being curious, and specifically about intimacy 194 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: and how it all works, but the reality is, when 195 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 2: you think about an eight year old and their level 196 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: of curiosity and the questions they might be asking you, yes, 197 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: as opposed to the curiosity of a fifteen year old. 198 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 2: There's a really big chasm between what an eight year 199 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: old wants to hear and what a fifteen year old 200 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: is interested in. 201 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: Totally. 202 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, And so my perspective is, if you're going to 203 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: pick up a book like this, you really want to 204 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: know the content of it before you're handing it over 205 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: to your kid. And in that younger section, I'd definitely 206 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: be sitting down with them. It's not something i'd be 207 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 2: handed to them and just saying, have a flick through this. 208 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: Have you got any questions? 209 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So I've had to flick through it. I 210 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 1: haven't read the book carefully. It hasn't landed on my desk. 211 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: It's not like sex Man or anything like that. It's 212 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: not about that. It's really about the tricky emotions and 213 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: the concerns and questions that kids have about this kind 214 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: of stuff. I think that for the most part of that, 215 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: it is actually really responsible. I mean, these guys have 216 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: written welcome to your period, They've written welcome to consent, 217 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,319 Speaker 1: They've written welcome to your boobs right, Like they're out 218 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: there making a difference in helping families in supportive ways. 219 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: I just think as parents we need to be discerning. 220 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: Don't give it to your kids if they're not ready 221 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: for it. Have the conversations yourself. Be familiar with the 222 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: content that's there, but know what's going on in terms 223 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: of the conversations that your kids are having, Like be aware. 224 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: To me, that's the central element of this whole story. 225 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: All right, well we need to get on to the 226 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: next one. What is number two in your this week 227 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 2: in Parenthome. 228 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to play some audio here. This audio comes 229 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: from the ben Fordham Show on two GB in Sydney. 230 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: He was speaking with Tanvihmad. He is a Sydney based 231 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: psychiatrist who has written for many many years for the 232 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: Agent Sitning Morning Herald. He has quite a big profile 233 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: and they were talking parenting. Should parents be allowed to 234 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: give their kids a little smack. 235 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 4: In short, Yes, when it's combined with us measures, you know, 236 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 4: you take away their privileges, you said, other types of boundaries. 237 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: I think we can just get too black and white, 238 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 4: and I think it's different in other cultures. Think how 239 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 4: diverse we are multiculturally now then, and I think a 240 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 4: lot of cultures it is a really way of shame. 241 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 4: This is the boundary we expect in our communal environment, 242 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 4: if you like. But I think we get too black 243 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 4: and white where we go. It's just a source of shaming. 244 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 4: It's entirely negative, and I don't think that's always the case. 245 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: So Kylie tund he has a really big reputation as 246 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: a psychiatrist. He's come out and said it, and therefore 247 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: it is this week in parenting, these big news, and 248 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: I think I just I have to respond, so you 249 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: know where this is going. But I'm not going to 250 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: go where you think straight away. I'll get there eventually. 251 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: Psychiatrists have not done degrees in parenting. Psychiatrists don't know 252 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: what the parenting science is. Psychiatrists are actually medical doctors 253 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: who focus primarily on significant mental health challenges, the sort 254 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: of stuff that requires medication, the kind of staff where 255 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: the psychologist and the GP and everyone else is working 256 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: with you or your child or whoever says this is 257 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: really serious, we need to bring in the big guns. 258 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: Psychiatrists generally deal with the medication end of significant psychiatric illness. 259 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: So cause by smacking your kids. 260 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: Cause by smacking your kids, Thank you so much for 261 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: saying that. 262 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: So. 263 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I've had conversations with Tanver, We've got each 264 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: other's phone numbers, We've conversed really really lovely guy. But 265 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: on this one, I just have to say he's wrong, 266 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 1: and not just wrong, He's doing something that takes us 267 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: back several steps in our efforts to make the world 268 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: safer for our kids and to raise our kids in 269 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: better ways. He's literally causing us to regress, to go backwards. 270 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: I cannot believe that he said it. I cannot believe 271 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: that we're having this conversation. But I'm just so annoyed. 272 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: I'm really fired up about it. 273 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: We've had this conversation so many times. I feel like 274 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: we're just hitting our heads against the brick wall. But 275 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: when I think about, you know, the protection rights that 276 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 2: we have for animals and our staff. 277 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: And domestic violence laws and so on, Yeah. 278 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: It just astounds me that we're justifying our lack of 279 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: self regulation in a moment as being helpful in helping 280 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: our children understand boundaries. 281 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I want to also reference his statement in 282 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,719 Speaker 1: relation to cross cultural consideration. People from other cultures hit 283 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: their children. And we're in a pluralistic society here in Australia. 284 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: We've got a diverse culture and a diverse population. So therefore, 285 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: we need to stop shaming parents for hitting their children 286 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,319 Speaker 1: because many of them are from other cultures where it's 287 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: totally the norm. If we I'm not about shaming parents, 288 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: we've probably all done it. I hope we haven't all 289 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: done it, but unfortunately both you and I have. We've 290 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: stepped in that hole more times than we would really 291 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: like to consider. But we done well work so hard 292 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: to stay well away from that. When we start to 293 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: make excuses for people, we just make it easier for 294 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: them to do it, and we make it harder for 295 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: us to get the message across that this is not 296 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: healthy for our children. I want to share with you 297 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: a brand new study. This one came out just at 298 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: the start of the year. This is a longitudinal study 299 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: of kindergarteners. And what the researchers here did this was 300 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: in the journal Child Abuse and Neglect, and what they 301 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: looked at was how spanking in America they call it spanking. 302 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: So we're not talking about child abuse here. We're not 303 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: talking about wallopping your kids all day every day. We're 304 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: not talking about all the horrible stuff. We're talking about 305 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: giving your kids a smack because they've been behaving in 306 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: a way that's not okay. And what the research has 307 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: found in this particular journal artic on this particular study, 308 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: was that children who were exposed to spanking had higher 309 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: externalizing behavior. Externalizing behavior is acting out, it's being aggressive 310 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: towards others, it's slamming doors, kicking, screaming, and just basically 311 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: acting like a porkshop when things don't go your way. 312 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: Higher levels of externalizing behavior, lower levels of self control, 313 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: and lower into personal skills compare the children who had 314 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: never been spanked. This is American data. I'm just saying 315 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: spanked because that's what the article says, rather than smacked. 316 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: And so the research also shows that some parents are 317 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 1: using spanking as a form of punishment with the goal 318 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: of correcting or controlling their child's behavior. But researchers are 319 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: showing ongoingly that spanking is harmful for child development, suggesting 320 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: that it models aggressive behavior, undermines parent child attachment, and 321 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: impairs children's self regulation skills. Research evidence has largely supported 322 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: the harmful effects of spanking, showing that spanking damages children's 323 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: social competence and social skills. And the article goes on 324 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: and on and on. It just keeps on going with 325 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: more and more data pointing out all of the research 326 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: that shows that we've got to stop smacking our kids. So, Tanvere, 327 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if you listen to the Happy Families 328 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: podcast or not, but I'm calling you out on this. 329 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: We need to stop it, and we need to have 330 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: conversations with people like ben Fordham saying that there are 331 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: better ways to do this, and let's also stop pointing 332 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: parents to the other adverse ways of disciplining children by 333 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: hurting them, whether it's time out or removal of privileges 334 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: or anything else that he said. I've written an entire 335 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: book about what to do instead. It's called The Parenting Revolution. 336 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: You gave it a Solid four Now book Club a 337 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Rebecca Sparrow reckons it's literally one 338 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: of the best parenting books she has ever read, and it. 339 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 2: Has sounds like a solid four to me. 340 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: Solid four. It's changed the way she raises her kids. Please, 341 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: we don't need to make our kids. 342 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: That's how much did you pay her? 343 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: I didn't pay her? How much am I paying you 344 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: stop it all right. That's this week in parenting. I 345 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: think though two really important conversations. Hopefully they have been helpful. 346 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: If you're having a hard time with the kids talking 347 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: about sex and intimacy, or dealing with smacking, it could 348 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: be at either end of the spectrum. Please visit happy 349 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: families dot com dot you. Our membership has a bunch 350 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: of resources to help with both of those things, to 351 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: help you to guide your kids successfully and raise them happily. 352 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland for Bridge Media. 353 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about 354 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: how to make your family happier, please visit us at 355 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot you. Oh. Big news Tomorrow 356 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: on the podcast, we find out what gender our new 357 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 1: grand baby's going to be.