1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just answers. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: Now, as they get older, we don't just let them 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: free range. What we do instead is we say, we 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: really want you to do well. We have high hopes 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: for you, and we want to support you the best 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: that we can. What is it that you need from 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: us so that you can do a really, really great job. 9 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show. 10 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: My mum and dad. Well, Kylie, if it today's listener question, 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I have a lot to say. 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: You've always got a lot to say. 13 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: I can't couple of you said that on the podcast. 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: I do have a lot to say. But before I 15 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: dive into today's question, we're going to dive into another 16 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: question that came through just recently via podcast at Happy 17 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Families dot com dot I think you can answer this 18 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: one quickly. It's completely for you. And since I've got 19 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: so much to say about our proper listener question, I'm 20 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: slotting this in this This came in about a month ago. 21 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: It came in on the third of April. I'm so 22 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: sorry to Mish who sent this one through, but she 23 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: said episode seven thirty three, what keeps Kylie up at night, 24 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: and just because of school, holidays and so much going on, 25 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: we haven't had the chance to address it. And I 26 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: think this is your chance to shine, Kylie and make 27 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: me look terrible. Hi there, says Mish. Just listen to 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: the episode on what keeps Kylie up at night? So 29 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: this is a question for her. How do you handle 30 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: Justin's sleeping through everything? Do you not feel resentment that 31 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: you have to do all the night wakings and many 32 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: other things. I can't seem to get over it with 33 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: my husband since we birthed our son and he's over 34 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: a year old already. I work full time too. I'd 35 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: love to hear how you manage it and yet still 36 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: feel love and recently celebrated twenty five years together and 37 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: hold it all together. Oh so, for those of you 38 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: who missed the context back in episode seven thirty three, 39 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: we highlighted it in the early days, I didn't really 40 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: do a good job of waking up in the night 41 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: and still don't. If something happens in the middle of 42 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: the night, I just don't know because I sleep through it. 43 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: And Kylie, you don't ever seem to give me any 44 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: curry about it. You don't sort of resent me for it. 45 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: You just get up, deal with it, and fall back asleep. 46 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: Is that how do we respond to Michelle? 47 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 2: Honestly, I think in the early days, in the very 48 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 2: very early days, I would never have dreamed to give 49 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: up that role. I wanted to get up to my baby. 50 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 51 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 2: But over time, with more children and more exhaustion kicking in, 52 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: there were plenty of times where I wished that you 53 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 2: would have got up, And there were plenty of times where, 54 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: like in that episode I talked about, I literally physically assaulted. 55 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: You to try and get you out of bed, and 56 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: I slipped through the assault. 57 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: But if I can just kind of paint the picture 58 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: a little bit, when we got engaged at two am 59 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 2: in the morning and we woke our parents up, your 60 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: parents literally woke up and gruffly said, you're getting married. 61 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: Go to slop. Yeah, talk about in the morning, leave 62 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: us alone. Whereas your parents, they got out of bed, 63 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: they cried, they hugged you. So, for those of you 64 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: who don't know the story, long story, very short, I 65 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: proposed over the phone at two o'clock one morning. 66 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: But that's a story for another day. 67 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: Yep, yep, yeah, But that pretty much. 68 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: Describes our abilities during the night, and so I've actually 69 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: learned over time that it's just not a strong point 70 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: of yours. You actually do not function in the middle 71 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: of the night, like you literally don't function. 72 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,919 Speaker 1: If a burglar was trying to burgle us, we would die. 73 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: You you would be the protector because I wouldn't know, 74 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: and or I'd roll over, you know, not take what 75 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: you want. I'm asleep, I don't care. Just go. 76 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 2: So there have been a very few handful of times 77 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: where you have been useful, yes, But more times than 78 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: that you actually just create more anxiety in me, and 79 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: it's easier to deal with things on my. 80 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: At one point, we got to I got to a 81 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: level where like, if I have an inkling that you 82 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: need a hand, and then I will act on that. 83 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: But if I don't have that inkling, then I won't 84 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: act on it. And I think that I'm helpful all 85 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: during the day and in the mornings and in the 86 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: evenings and in the night time, I don't hear anything. 87 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: But the times where I have heard something and that 88 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: inkling has sort of tickled the back of my mind, 89 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: I've gotten up and I've done whatever I needed to do. Happily, 90 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: whether it's cleaning up dog vomit or looking after kids 91 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: or whatever it. 92 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: Is well, and I guess that's probably where I was 93 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: going to go with it. For Michelle, it's just the 94 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: acknowledgment that I recognize that you're not ignoring the situation 95 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: at nighttime. 96 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: I'm asleep, You are asleep. 97 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: Dead asleep, And there are so many other ways in 98 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: which you support me, and so over time as I 99 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: came to recognize that this was actually just the way 100 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 2: our lives were, and research even supports like moms are 101 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: tuned into their babies, they hear them. That's how we've 102 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: been designed, and so I do. I'm fully aware of them. 103 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: You are not miss We hope that that answers your question. 104 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: Now we've given ourselves a lot less time than we 105 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: probably need to answer the question that's come through from 106 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: a listener by the name of Well. I won't mention 107 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: her name, but I love the emails that we get 108 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: from our listeners, and I just love the pure intention 109 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: to help kids do well. This one, though, has got 110 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: me Well, Like I said, I've got a lot to 111 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: say about it. So I'm going to read this for you. 112 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: It says did Justin and Kylie. I'm a long time 113 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: listener to the podcast Read all your books Your Friday, 114 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: I'll do Better Tomorrow is not to miss for me, 115 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: no matter how busy I am is it always reminds 116 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: me to do my own self reflection. I have a 117 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: question for you. How do we set an expectation for 118 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: our kids for schoolwork when they're not very motivated or 119 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: self driven. I'm always highly motivated to do my best, 120 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: and it's hard not to put any expectation on our 121 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,239 Speaker 1: kids to achieve, or at least to try their best. 122 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: My twelve year old daughter keeps saying that she's not 123 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: mini me, which I get, but it's hard to let 124 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: go of that expectation, especially because I know that they're 125 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: really smart kids and if they put in the effort, 126 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: it'll go a long way in their lives. I'll give 127 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: you an example. My daughter was doing an appland test 128 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: and I know that she could do better, but she 129 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: just focused on completing it rather than perfecting it. So 130 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: the result was not good and I was disappointed. I 131 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: didn't say much, but she sensed my disappointment and got upset. 132 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: Should I let go and not put any pressure on them? 133 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: How Should I handle this as I know both kids 134 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: are gifted and they can achieve whatever they want if 135 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: they're interested and put some effort. All I want for 136 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: them is to try their best, and I'm happy with 137 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,119 Speaker 1: whatever result they get. I'm not focusing on the result, 138 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: but on their effort. But I'm not seeing that they're 139 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: putting their one hundred percent in. Should I just let 140 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: them free range whatever they want so they'll be happy? 141 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: I don't want them to waste their intelligence. I'm sorry 142 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: if it sounds like I'm bragging, but I feel a 143 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: bit lost. Help. 144 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So I've got a few things to say to you. 145 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: I love I love this email. I just this is 146 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: a mum who just wants the kids to succeed, and 147 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: they've got the potential. And it's not I tapped into. 148 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: Probably every single parent would be capable of writing that 149 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: email at some point child's total I think the thing 150 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: that stands out to me the most is who gets 151 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: to determine what is our children's best? Like, how do 152 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: you decide that your child isn't doing the very best 153 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 2: that they're capable of doing in that moment. 154 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: So we haven't conferred about our notes, but the second 155 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: thing that I wrote down was trying the best, Like, 156 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: how do I know? And I've tried my best, do 157 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:26,960 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? 158 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: Like, and in any given moment, your best will be different. Yeah, 159 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 2: what it was yesterday or what it will be in 160 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: two weeks. 161 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Time or tomorrow night when I'm really tired versus right 162 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: now when I'm feeling good. There's there's different there's different bests. 163 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: But when I look back on even this podcast that 164 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: we're recording now, I know that we've put time and 165 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: effort into preparing individually, but we. 166 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 2: Could do so much better. 167 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to listen to it again and go, oh, 168 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: I didn't say this or I should have said that. 169 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: I don't know if that was my best, but it's 170 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: the best in the moment based on the constraints that 171 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: we're dealing with. Like well, even with. 172 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 2: Nap plan, I mean, how many of us actually do 173 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 2: really well and test settings. But I can do all 174 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: of that work if I'm just doing it at my 175 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: own free will and without the pressure of knowing that 176 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 2: it's during an exam conditions. But then put me in 177 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: that situation and all of a sudden, my brain doesn't work. 178 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: Let me give you another provocation about trying your best 179 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: as well. I don't actually believe that it's in anyone's 180 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: best interest to try their best in everything. 181 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: Well, I'm listening to her and she's talking about the 182 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: fact that she is highly motivated to do her best 183 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 2: in everything. 184 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 185 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 2: I am that person. And as I have learnt more 186 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: about myself, my motivation is my desire to please other people. 187 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 2: My motivation is perfectionism because it allows me to recognize 188 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: my worth in that situation. So if that's what we 189 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 2: want our kids to do, then I think we've actually 190 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 2: lost the battle. 191 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: And as you say that, it makes me wonder, is 192 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: you're worth really predicated on how perfectly you do that thing? Like? No, 193 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: And is you're worth really predicated on the way other 194 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: people are perceiving you? 195 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: But I've spent forty years thinking it was right. And 196 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 2: so when I don't do things to the standard that 197 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 2: I think I'm capable of doing. 198 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: Because you've got to do your best in everything. 199 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: Then I'm an absolute mess at the other end. 200 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: So all, with all respect and gentleness and sensitivity here, 201 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: doing your best in everything could actually be pathological because 202 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: it drives it drives this incessant perfectionism, and it also 203 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: drives everyone around you crazy because then you're expecting that 204 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: if you're going to do your best, then they have 205 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: to do their best as well, which is really it's 206 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: really hard for everybody. 207 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 2: Having had six children who all at different times in 208 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: their schooling have not been motivated to do their best. 209 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 2: I have come to the conclusion having married someone who 210 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: almost failed high school. 211 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: Well I did. I mean I scored in the bottom 212 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: fifteen percent of the state and has. 213 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: Managed to turn life around. I it just we've got 214 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: to take the pressure of our kids. 215 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: So let's talk about a couple of other things here. 216 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: The question of motivation is a really big one. And 217 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: in my brand new book, which comes out tomorrow, In fact, 218 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: it's online right now. You can get it right now online, 219 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: and it's even on a few Boo book store shelves 220 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: right now as well, even though it officially launches tomorrow. 221 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 1: In my brand new book, I walk through something. 222 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: That's what's the name of it. 223 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:33,839 Speaker 1: It's called the parenting Revolution. Thanks for asking. I walk 224 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 1: through this thing called the motivation continuum. If we want 225 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: our children to do well in anything, to have a 226 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: go to be motivated We've got to consider the different 227 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: kinds of motivation, because motivation isn't just you've got it 228 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: or you don't. There's different forms of motivation. And I 229 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: stepped through this motivation continuum. Are you ready? I'm going 230 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: to geek out for a sec because this really matters. 231 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: There's something called a motivation. A motivation just means you 232 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: don't have any at all. The next kind of motivation 233 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: that you have is external or extrinsic motive. That's the 234 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: motivation where I'm doing it because there's somebody waving a 235 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: stick or dangling a carrot, is saying for every a 236 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: you get, I'm going to give you fifty bucks. That 237 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: kind of thing. So that's external motivation. The next form 238 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: of motivation is called introjective motivation. That's basically where we've 239 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: internalized the carrots and sticks. We're doing it because we 240 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: think we have to otherwise something bad will happen, or 241 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: because that's how you get good things. But those forms 242 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: of motivation are extremely externally oriented. And when I'm reading 243 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,959 Speaker 1: this email, what I'm hearing is what can I do 244 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: to motivate my kids? And whenever you're relying on external motivators, 245 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: guess what. The kids aren't going to be motivated unless 246 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: you're dangling enough money in front of them or punishing 247 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: them badly enough. And that's that's terrible because as soon 248 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: as you take away the incentives, the nice ones or 249 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,959 Speaker 1: the nasty ones, your kids lose motivation. 250 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 2: Well, we're not going to go down the rabbit hole, 251 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: but I mean, school these days has completely squashed so 252 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: much of our kids desire. 253 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be really gentle, and I know 254 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: you do too, for teachers who are doing their very, 255 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: very best. But when we're turning the classroom into a 256 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: game show and you're getting points for the auction at 257 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: the end of the month for whatever different kind of 258 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: incentive or token systems being set up, the kids aren't 259 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: learning for learning sake. The kids are learning something they 260 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 1: can get the tokens. But then again, the curriculum, I mean, 261 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: the curriculum for so many kids just sucks. I mean, 262 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that they're learning about that they 263 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: will never use for the rest of their lives. Will 264 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: We had this conversation just the other day with our 265 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: year eight daughter and our year ten daughter, and they're like, 266 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: why are we learning this stuff? Why can't we be 267 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: learning about And then because we were having a financial 268 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: conversation about what's going on with inflation and interest rates 269 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: and rentals and mortgages, and we've got a daughter who's 270 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: doing property economics at UNI, and the year eight year 271 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 1: ten girls are going, this sounds really interesting, like we 272 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: want to learn about that, but we don't get to 273 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: learn about that in high school mats. They teach other 274 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: stuff that's not nearly as compelling, like serds. And so 275 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: we've got these two external forms of motivation. The next 276 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: form of motivation is what we call identified motivation, and 277 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: that's when you start to do things because you can 278 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: see that they're valuable, they're worthwhile, they're important. Here's the 279 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: really good one, though, The really good one is what 280 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: we call integrated motivation. Integrated motivation is I'm doing something 281 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: because it's part of who i am. I'm a runner, 282 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: I'm a cyclist, I'm a swimmer, I'm a mathematician, I'm 283 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 1: a psychology researcher, i'm a dentist. And we do these 284 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: things because it's part of who we are and we 285 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: find delight in them. And then the ultimate form of 286 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: motivation is called intrinsic motivation. That intrinsic motivation is where 287 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: you do something just for the joy of it. Like 288 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: I pick up books and read them for the joy 289 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: of reading, mountains for the joy. I write up mountains 290 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: for the joy of it. I go surfing for the 291 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: joy of it. I spend time with my family for 292 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: the joy of it. These things are intrinsically motivating. So 293 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: the question I would have here is we've got a 294 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: mum who's saying, how do I get my child to 295 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: be motivated for school? And the reality is, we create 296 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: an environment that is motivating. That is that it satisfies 297 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: the basic needs that children have to thrive. And I 298 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: hate to say it, but school mostly doesn't do that. 299 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: And I say that again with all the kindness and 300 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: respect and gentleness for teachers who are doing their best, 301 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: But we have a system. It's a system that is 302 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: outside of many teachers. There are some teachers who work 303 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: within the system to do it, but it takes so 304 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: much effort and an awareness of what you're doing to 305 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: be able to create that. And so from my child 306 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: not being motivated, it's like, Okay, well, what's going on 307 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: with relationships at school? What are they doing that actually 308 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: lights them up at school? And to what extent do 309 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: they have any choice in what they're doing, Because those 310 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: are the three basic psychological needs that feed that motivation. 311 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,479 Speaker 1: If you've got a child who's not feeling like relationships 312 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: are great, or just doesn't really care for the material, 313 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: or doesn't have any choice, then of course they're not 314 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: going to be motivated the motivation, or at least they're 315 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: not going to have the kind of motivation that leads 316 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: to the kind of results that this mum want. 317 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 2: In particular, the thing that has stood out to me 318 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 2: the most as I've watched our six children go through 319 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: school is when their grades aren't great nine times out 320 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 2: of ten, it has more to do about their friendships. Yes, 321 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: they don't feel like they belong. They don't have that 322 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: unity and that structure that keeps them feeling safe and 323 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 2: secure in their learning environment, and everything else flows from that. 324 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: Let's move on to the last couple of points as 325 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: we start to rape up this conversation. What I've noticed 326 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: in this email is that mum is kind of swinging 327 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: from an all position to a nothing position. Okay, so 328 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: do I keep on going hard at the kids and 329 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: telling them that they've got to perfect this and they've 330 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: got to try their best and they've got to work hard. 331 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: Or do I just let them free range and be 332 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: happy with whatever result you get. And so we kind 333 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: of the pendulum swinging from this end to the other 334 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: end and then back again as this mum tries to 335 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: work out the balance. Want to wrap up the podcast 336 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: by sharing what we do with our kids and not 337 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: every parent's not every parent's going to find this perfect 338 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: for them, And every family is different, every child's different, 339 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: everyone's motivation is different. But I feel like sharing our 340 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: approach to schooling with our kids with you may be 341 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: helpful here. So during the education process, especially in primary school, 342 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: we have a completely let's just make sure the kids 343 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: are enjoying themselves as much as possible approach. It doesn't 344 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: always work, sometimes the kids are struggling in different ways, 345 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: but we bend over backwards. Just make sure the kids 346 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: have got good relationships, They have some choice in which 347 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: school they're going to to the extent that we can 348 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: allow them that, and we we really just encourage them 349 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: to figure stuff out, develop their competence, and feel like 350 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: they're in control of things. Once they hit high school, 351 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: we let them know that we want to talk to 352 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: them about where they're trying to go with the rest 353 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: of their life, obviously recognizing that they can change their 354 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: mind at any point because it's way too early to 355 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: be having this conversation, but there is zero pressure. Zero pressure. 356 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: In year ten, we say to the kids, Okay, one 357 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: more year until the big two years that probably matter 358 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: the most in your high school experience. So we want 359 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: you to start to really understand what works, what does 360 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: and in terms of study, and get the work done. 361 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: So it's not until year ten that we start to, 362 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: I guess chat with our kids seriously about what school 363 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: is all about. In year eleven, though, that's when we 364 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: sit down with our kids and we say to them, 365 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: you're in your final two years. These two years the 366 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: two years that determine your at are and give you 367 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: optionality for what happens after high school. Our approach is 368 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: essentially at that point to say to our kids, we 369 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: are not going to tell you what to do. We 370 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: are not going to hassle you to study, We're not 371 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: going to make any demands of you. All we're going 372 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: to do is ask you what it is that you 373 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: want right now, what you want over the next two 374 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: years and how we can support you best. And I 375 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: think that's kind of about it, isn't it. 376 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: I think the thing that we focus on when our 377 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: kids come home and tell us the results of their 378 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 2: various assignments and exams is there's no evaluation on our end, right. 379 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 2: The conversation is, how do you feel about it? Do 380 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: you feel like you did a good job? 381 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: How did it feel to get the AP plus? How 382 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: did it feel to get the C minus? And we 383 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: let them tell us, and we say. 384 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 2: They do the evaluation, they talk about it, and as 385 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 2: a result, it leads into a conversation about what they 386 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: could do next time, or just be excited, yeah, about 387 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: the outcome and what they've learned through the process. The 388 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: focus isn't on the grade. The focus is on the 389 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 2: learning process. 390 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: So for this mum, there's a couple of things I 391 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 1: guess would summarize our conversation. First Off, we're talking about 392 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: twelve year olds or children around that age. I don't 393 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: think that there's any need for pressure at this point. 394 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 1: There's no need for extra coaching and do your best. 395 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: It's really just are you enjoying school? What we do 396 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: to make it better? How can we make sure that 397 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: it's an environment that you enjoy being in. The next 398 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: thing is, as they get older, we don't just let 399 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: them free range. What we do instead is we say, 400 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: we really want you to do well. We have high 401 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: hopes for you, not high expectations. We have high hopes 402 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: for you, and we want to support you the best 403 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: that we can. What is it that you need from 404 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: us so that you can do a really, really great job. 405 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: Where do you want to go? What's important to you? See? 406 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: For my parents, they were forcing me to go to 407 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: high school and do my best. But I wanted to 408 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: be a radio DJ and I knew that I could 409 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: leave school in year ten. I didn't need to have 410 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: year elevant in twelve, and so I failed Year elevant 411 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: in twelve. It was appalling, but my parents were forcing 412 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: me to go because they thought that I had to 413 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: get it done. Had they listened to me or had 414 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: different conversations from me, I think that the outcome might 415 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: have been quite different. But it just turned into big 416 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,400 Speaker 1: fights about how much they were paying for school fees 417 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: and how much I was ungrateful and didn't didn't appreciate 418 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: what a good education was, and that ultimately led to 419 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: resentment and frustration and challenge. So for this, Mum, take 420 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: the pressure off by having autonomy, supportive conversations where you say, 421 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: I really want you to do well. I have great 422 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: hopes for you. You have tremendous potential. What do you want? 423 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: How can I support you to get there? That I 424 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: think is going to be a far more effective way forward. 425 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: We hope that's been a fun conversation. Don't forget grab 426 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: my new book, The Parenting Revolution. It's available wherever you 427 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: want to buy books. You can find it everywhere. The 428 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: Pairing Revolution is out now and The Happy Family's podcast 429 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rowlan from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce 430 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: is our executive producer, and for more info about making 431 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: your family happier, check out The Parenting Revolution or visit 432 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: Happy families dot com dot au.