1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the daily 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcomes the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the 4 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 2: eighteenth of July. I'm Sam, I'm Emma, a newspaper of 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 2: education and news, expression and hope that's the message that 6 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 2: greets you on the front page of About Time. That's 7 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: Australia's new national prison newspaper. The organizers hope a copy, 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 2: either physical or digital, makes it to every cell across 9 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: Australia and is read by as many of the forty 10 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: thousand prisoners across the country as possible. On today's podcast, 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to sit down with Joe Friedman. He's a 12 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 2: managing director at About Time. They're one issue in and 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 2: we're going to talk about why this publication is needed, 14 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 2: what it hopes to achieve, whether it can even get 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 2: behind bars, and if it makes prisoners feel more free 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 2: Before we get there, so though Emma's got the headlines. 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,919 Speaker 3: Local police in the Philippines have arrested a man suspected 18 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 3: of killing two Australians and a Philippina woman at a 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: hotel last week. The man handed himself over to police 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: after he was identified as a former employee of the 21 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 3: Lake Hotel. The man was present at a press conference 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 3: where police provided an update on their investigation. An Australian couple, 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 3: a man and a woman in their fifties were visiting 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: family in the Philippines when they were found dead in 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 3: a resort town south of Manila. Local authorities alleged the 26 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: man was trying to quote get back at his former 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 3: employer after being dismissed. 28 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: At least five people have been killed in anti government 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 2: protests in Bangladesh, where students have been rallying against a 30 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: job's quota system. Protesters want the government to scrap a 31 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: system that reserves around a third of public service roles 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: for relatives of those who fought in Bangladesh's War of 33 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: independence in the nineteen seventies. Students who have been gathering 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: at university campuses have called the quota's discriminatory. The week's 35 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: long protests turned violent as riot police started breaking up 36 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: the demonstrators. 37 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 3: Australian Olympians who win gold in Paris will have their 38 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: own postage stamps designed in their honor. OZ Post has 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:26,399 Speaker 3: announced forty eight hours after winning gold, Australia Post will 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: release the rare ten sheet stamp packages for our top 41 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 3: Aussie performers. Oz Post said the initiative is aimed at 42 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: allowing fans to take home a piece of history. Australia's 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 3: Royal Mint will also commemorate the games with a green 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 3: and gold colored two dollar coin collection. The Paris twenty 45 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 3: twenty four opening ceremony will be held on the twenty 46 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 3: sixth of July, just over a week to go. 47 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: And for today's good news, a global cleanup campaign has 48 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 2: successfully removed fifteen thousand, four hundred tons of garbage from 49 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 2: the world's oceans and beaches. The Team Sees campaign partnered 50 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: with international conservation groups to help remove plastic and waste 51 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: pollution from waterways. The global campaign has raised millions of 52 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: dollars and has been supported by online personalities, including YouTuber 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: mister Beast. About Time is a national newspaper designed to 54 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: be read by the prison population of Australia that's about 55 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: forty thousand people. It's going to include news and investigations, 56 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 2: often topical stories focused on the prison and criminal justice 57 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: systems themselves, first person experiences, letters, coverage of health, culture, 58 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: the legal sector, and first nations communities. Now the publication 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: is one edition in and that first edition has covered 60 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 2: everything from a feature on the benefits of dogs in 61 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: prison and new research and strategies into the lasting effects 62 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: of childhood abuse, all the way through to creative writing exercises, 63 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: poetry and yoga lessons. This morning, we're going to be 64 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 2: joined on the podcast by a managing director of About Time, 65 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: Joe Friedman. As you listen to it, just remember that 66 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: I will throw a link to About Time and that 67 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: first edition in today's show notes. Joe, thanks so much 68 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 2: for joining us. Where are you dialing in from? 69 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 4: Thanks, Am, it's good to be here. 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,919 Speaker 1: I'm actually dialing in from Lake bled in, Slovenia, of 71 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: all places. 72 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: Wow. So thanks for taking a bit of time on 73 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: what I assume as a holiday to chat to TDA 74 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: this morning. I'm really excited to get stuck into this 75 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: and your new project. When I was looking at About Time, 76 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: it took me back to when I was probably eight 77 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: or nine years old and the first song that I 78 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: ever cried at, which was Paul Kelly's How to Make Gravy. 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: For those who don't know the song, it's basically this 80 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: letter from an inmate. And there's been disputes about whether 81 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: it's fictional or real, but in any case, it brought 82 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 2: a lot of emotion to me. Have you experienced similar 83 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: emotion when reading the journalism that's produced by prisoners for 84 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: your publication? 85 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we have, We definitely have. 86 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: The letters we've received so far from people who are 87 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: currently in prison and people who were formally incarcerated are 88 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: quite meaningful, quite profound. Their stories about a life of 89 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: trauma and difficult upbringings that in many ways have led 90 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: to or contributed to these people committing their crimes. You know, 91 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: they don't exist in a vacuum, and it's quite i guess, 92 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 1: uplifting to read about where they were and where they 93 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: are today and the message they're sending to people who 94 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: are currently in prison and people who might be thinking 95 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: about committing crimes about perhaps a better way. 96 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 4: To do things. 97 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 2: Would you describe about Time as a newspaper or is 98 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: it more of a lifestyle magazine? Like what kind of 99 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: shelf in the news agent would you put it on? 100 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: We want it to be in the newspaper shelf. It's 101 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: not a magazine, it's not a newsletter. We want it 102 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: to feel like a newspaper, something that people in prison 103 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: receive with regularity that they feel like it's information, it's 104 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: new use, its art, it's poetry, its letters, its stories, 105 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: all the kind of general things that go into a newspaper. 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: The difference is that it's specifically for them, about them, 107 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: and often by them. 108 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: Did this project come about because you noticed a gap 109 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 2: and you thought that there should be something there or 110 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: was this something that was requested by inmates? 111 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 4: It was the former. 112 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: I heard about a similar paper called Inside Time in 113 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom, which has been around since nineteen ninety 114 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: and it started off as a quarterly, twelve page black 115 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,239 Speaker 1: and white attempt to give people in prison a voice, 116 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: and now thirty four years later, it's a monthly color, 117 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: sixty plus page edition that goes out to over fifty 118 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: thousand people across prisons and detention facilities in the UK, 119 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: and it's loved and it's cherished. We heard about Inside Time, 120 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: learned that nothing of the sort existed in Australia, learned 121 00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: that people in prison in Australia would love something of this, 122 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: and went about putting it all together. 123 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: How did you establish that they actually wanted it? Like? 124 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: What was that process? 125 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: Like? 126 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: Was that research or anecdotal evidence? 127 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 4: It was a bit of both. 128 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: I initially kind of assembled a team of different individuals 129 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: from criminal justice organizations and prisoners legal services around Australia, 130 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: and those people had contacts and clients inside prison and 131 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: so I guess that's the anecdotal piece. But then we 132 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: also ran focused groups of people who were formerly incarcerated 133 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: and asked them all about it. The response was, yeah, 134 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: this sounds great. We're not sure you'll actually be able 135 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: to get this in, but if you can, we know 136 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: that people would love it. We wish we had something 137 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 1: like this when we were in prison. 138 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: You just highlighted there what I suspect was a little 139 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: bit of a roadblock, which was actually the viability of 140 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 2: distributing a publication amongst the prison systems, which are state 141 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: and territory based, not federal based. How have you found 142 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: the journey of actually trying to get this publication behind bars? 143 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was probably what we were most worried about, 144 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: even if we raised enough money, even if we found 145 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people to write, even if the interest 146 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: was there. Ultimately, Australia is a federation. There are eight 147 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: states and territories. Each jurisdiction has its own Corrections Authority, 148 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: Corrections department. They get to decide what goes in and 149 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: out of prison, and often they can be quite strict, 150 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: sometimes even more strict than in America or the UK. 151 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: And so we knew that if we didn't get approval 152 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: from Corrections, the paper wasn't going to happen. But we 153 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: decided let's just ask, and so we just email the 154 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: commissioners and we say, hey, this is what we want 155 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: to do, this is why we. 156 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 4: Want to do it. What do you think? 157 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: And I think that's a really good lesson just to ask, 158 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: because you never know what response you're going to get. 159 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: And in Victoria and New South Wales TASMANI in the act, 160 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: the response was Okay, sure, great, this sounds like it 161 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: will be good for our population, and so it'll be 162 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: good for us. We haven't been quite as successful in 163 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: the other jurisdictions. We haven't received hard nos. We just 164 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: haven't got full authority and approval yet. But since the 165 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: positive response to the first edition has kind of come through, 166 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: they do seem to be coming on board. 167 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: Joe, I've got two more questions for you before I 168 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: let you get back to a Slovenian holiday. The first 169 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: question is I want you to make this really real 170 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: for us, Can you tell me about a piece that 171 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 2: made it into the first edition and give us a 172 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: sense of how this all comes together and what it means. 173 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: If I can indulge, I might give two quick ones, please, 174 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: One from someone with direct experience of incarceration. His name 175 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 1: is James, and he writes about how he's spent most 176 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: of the past four years in prison, and the reason 177 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: he's spent that much time in prison is because of alcohol. 178 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: When he was young, he had terrible issues with anxiety 179 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: and he was able to kind of push that aside 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: by drinking. And he would drink with all of his friends, 181 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: but he would be the only one who drove home 182 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: after drinking because it just felt easier to him. He 183 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: didn't have anyone advising him against that. It resulted in 184 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 1: him being constantly intoxicated, fighting with police, resisting arrests, you know, 185 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: a whole lot of terrible events that resulted in. 186 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 4: Him a most of his time in prison. 187 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: And I think what's quite meaningful and empowering about James's 188 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: story is that something changed and something clicked. And he 189 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: writes in our first edition, in our letters section about 190 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: how he's managed to turn his life around, and how 191 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: he's focused on his eating and his exercise and his health, 192 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: his mindfulness and mental. 193 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 4: Health as well. 194 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people who could relate 195 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: to James and his position, his words of kind of 196 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: encouragement feel like they could do a whole lot of 197 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: good to other people going through something similar. 198 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: Well. 199 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: The other piece that's quite powerful is from a former 200 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: police officer. This person was a Victorian police officer for 201 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: two years, hasn't had any experience with incarceration, but we 202 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: encourage contributions from anyone with contact or interaction with the 203 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: criminal justice system. This person, who's anonymous for the story, 204 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: writes about how they felt compelled to quit and leave 205 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: the police force and move into the private sector because 206 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: of a racist and toxic culture inside Victoria Police. I 207 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: can't recall reading a story from an ex officer being 208 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: so open about issues within the force, and I think 209 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: it's something that everyone should read. 210 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: There are two very powerful examples. I was actually lying 211 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 2: about the fact that I had two more questions. Now 212 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 2: I've got two more questions because I'm just really enjoying 213 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 2: where this is going. Was there any part of the 214 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: planning from the founders of this. Was there any sort 215 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: of thinking about how this could actually be used as 216 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 2: a mitigating factor when prisoners are appealing for parole or 217 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: for early release, Like, did that come into the thinking 218 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: of this. 219 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: It didn't come into the thinking. But I think what's 220 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: good about this is it's a new initiative and we're 221 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: receiving advice and thoughts all the time, and so what 222 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: you've just said is definitely a great idea. The paper 223 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: goes off, if it succeeds, if we get so much response, 224 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: if we can kind of cultivate new writers and creators 225 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: from it, I'm sure that would be a wonderful tool 226 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: to show to the parole board. Look at the rehabilitation 227 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: that we've managed, and this is what we're going to 228 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: go and do after we leave prison. 229 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: So, I mean, we've definitely strived for that. 230 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: I can't claim it as my idea. When I was 231 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: doing some research for our chat, I was reading about 232 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 2: this in the state of New York, where it can 233 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: be seen as good behavior when somebody contributes to the 234 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: prison newspaper and it's used by a parole board to 235 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 2: kind of ascertain where they are both mentally and how 236 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 2: committed they are to work and all of those kind 237 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: of factors, so a very interesting angle. I'd love to 238 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: kind of follow that up almost in a couple of 239 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: years and see where it's at. Final question from me. 240 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: I found that one of the most interesting ideas when 241 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: looking at about time was that you have granted people 242 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: in prison, You've granted them the freedom of the press, 243 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 2: and there's some irony in the fact that they're granted 244 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: the freedom of the press, but they're not free themselves. 245 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: What are your thoughts around how your project can enhance 246 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: somebody's sense of freedom. 247 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: It's interesting because Australia, you know, we don't have this 248 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: kind of innate right to freedom of the press like 249 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: they do in America, which is why correction, let's have 250 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: the ability not to distribute. There's nothing acquiring them to 251 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: do so, and we're grateful to them for doing so. 252 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: I think that there's perhaps physical and metaphorical sense of 253 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: being locked up, but being physically locked up and away 254 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: from society doesn't mean you have to be metaphorically locked up. 255 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: There's no reason why you can't have connection to the 256 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: outside world through other means. That's the kind of core 257 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: principle of this paper. That we want to open a 258 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: window into the world of incarceration. We want to allow 259 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: these people to know what's going on outside, even if 260 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: they can't walk and live outside, and with that we 261 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: think they'll feel less imprisoned, less restricted, and if they do, 262 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: then we know we've succeeded. 263 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: Jeff Riedman. I feel like How to Make Gravy by 264 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: Paul Kelly has such a special part in Australian culture. 265 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 2: It's got this real kind of sacred spot, and I 266 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: have a feeling that About Time is destined for a 267 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 2: similar place in the way that we think and feel 268 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 2: about our justice system. Thanks so much for joining us. 269 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 4: Thanks so much, Sam. I hope we can get there. 270 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: That's all we have time for on today's edition of 271 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 2: The Daily Oas. I've put a link in the show 272 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 2: notes to read the first edition of About Time, and 273 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 2: you can also support their journalism. That's all from us today. 274 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: We'll speak to you again tomorrow. My name is Lily 275 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Calcotin woman from 276 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is 277 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people. And pays 278 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. 279 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 280 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 2: both past and present.