Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and
Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples.
Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and
Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing
Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are
Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present,
Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King,
Speaker 3: and joining me for our first ever deep dive together
Speaker 3: is the delightful Jessica Ricchie. Hello, Jr.
Speaker 4: I'm good. You're right. We've both done them with V before.
Speaker 2: We have.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, if you listened to Friday's episode, or if you
Speaker 4: follow VD on Instagram, you'd know the voice is gone.
Speaker 3: Gil can't speak, not a whisper.
Speaker 4: Of a word. And so today you've got us.
Speaker 3: You've got us, and like, don't worry, it's not a
Speaker 3: financial advice episode. We're talking more about the psychology of
Speaker 3: income guilt. Now, Jarek, This is a relatively new term,
Speaker 3: but not a new experience. It can be a vague
Speaker 3: and difficult feeling to describe. It can be a reaction
Speaker 3: to socioeconomic inequality, but it can also very often be
Speaker 3: a result of your money story and your background.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent and a while ago, we looked at
Speaker 4: spending guilt and that episode really resonated with a lot
Speaker 4: of people, so we thought that this might be something
Speaker 4: good to accompany it, particularly after we spoke to a
Speaker 4: money diarist recently where we touched on it and we
Speaker 4: had some really really positive feedback and we were like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, it's not just us, yeah, everybody. So
Speaker 4: we really drilled down on it in that episode that
Speaker 4: guilt exists to tell us something about ourselves and where
Speaker 4: we are. So it's kind of like the canary and
Speaker 4: the mind shaft concept if you're familiar with that. It's
Speaker 4: definitely not a healthy feeling to dwell in, unfortunately, So
Speaker 4: it should be a catalyst instead of resonating in your
Speaker 4: own guilt, instead of stewing on it, it should be
Speaker 4: kind of pushing us to look at the root cause
Speaker 4: of why we're feeling this way and addressing it.
Speaker 3: And that's what today's episode is all about. We aren't
Speaker 3: just talking about guilt or shame that you're earning too
Speaker 3: much though, for example, you're earning what you need, but
Speaker 3: you might feel shame or pressure that it's not more.
Speaker 3: You might compare yourself to your colleagues or your mates
Speaker 3: who are on different wickets and think, oh god, why
Speaker 3: is that no where I'm at? So, yeah, it's going
Speaker 3: to be a very interesting episode. We should say as
Speaker 3: well that we have spoken to Victoria before today's episode.
Speaker 3: These are all of her notes and hot tips and
Speaker 3: we're kind of just expanding on them. So if you're
Speaker 3: just like, who are these two silly nuts, we have
Speaker 3: spoken to the great Victoria Devine and she's behind today's episode.
Speaker 3: So that's that already, Jay Rick, what are some of
Speaker 3: the common negative thoughts we have when it comes to
Speaker 3: earning guilt?
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, so we've kind of drilled them down
Speaker 4: into two biggie's, which is the iron you lose and
Speaker 4: the I'm a fraud I don't deserve this. So the
Speaker 4: iron you lose concept is kind of when you get
Speaker 4: stuck into thinking that if you're succeeding, you're taking it
Speaker 4: away from somebody else. So you know, if I'm earning
Speaker 4: a really good salary, that must be in George that
Speaker 4: unfortunately there's not enough left there for you. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: so I'm depleting the resources available to you.
Speaker 3: So if we're in the same company, yeah.
Speaker 4: Exactly right, which shouldn't be the case. And I think
Speaker 4: that that's kind of something that a lot of people
Speaker 4: maybe feel as a result of, you know, workplace competitiveness
Speaker 4: or the inability to talk about your wages as well.
Speaker 4: I think kind of capitalizes on this a little bit.
Speaker 4: And it's really really unfortunate. So while the world is
Speaker 4: really unfair with the distribution of money, it's not your salary.
Speaker 4: And it's really hard when you're feeling super guilty to
Speaker 4: not think that you're the root cause of all these problems.
Speaker 4: But it's definitely your salary shouldn't be impacting the broader
Speaker 4: world as we know it. In reality, you're getting paid
Speaker 4: your wage. It's only adding to the flow of money.
Speaker 4: You can say, if you can invest, you can donate
Speaker 4: to charity if that's what you want to do, you
Speaker 4: can do all of these really great things. And then
Speaker 4: the second option is kind of the flip side of that.
Speaker 4: And it's where you have that overwhelming imposter syndrome. You
Speaker 4: feel like you don't deserve what you're earning, and women
Speaker 4: definitely feel this more commonly. Unfortunately, in our recent episode
Speaker 4: about how to have difficult conversations with your boss, we
Speaker 4: actually learned from you, George, that only seven percent of
Speaker 4: women we'll try and negotiate a salary when applying for
Speaker 4: a new job, whereas fifty seven percent of men willstounding,
Speaker 4: isn't it I knew it was bad. I did not
Speaker 4: know it was that bad until I listened to that episode.
Speaker 4: Once they're working, less than one in five women are
Speaker 4: asking for a pay rise without being prompted, compared to
Speaker 4: one in three men. So you should know you are
Speaker 4: valuable as a woman, as a man, as a non
Speaker 4: binary friend. You are deserving of that money and you
Speaker 4: shouldn't be feeling bad for us about it. And also
Speaker 4: give people credit. They usually know what they're talking about
Speaker 4: when it comes to hiring, and they hired you for
Speaker 4: a reason. You're bringing skills to a role. I would
Speaker 4: assume you don't have to be compensated for that.
Speaker 3: Is that something that you've battled with, Jay Rick.
Speaker 4: I think a little bit I think particularly when I
Speaker 4: changed industries, so I you know, started super corporate and
Speaker 4: then moved to more creative And I have said before
Speaker 4: I did it without a degree, So for me, there
Speaker 4: was definitely a little bit of knowing that I had
Speaker 4: the skills to do the job that I do now
Speaker 4: and that I was freelancing in for a very long time,
Speaker 4: I had a proven track record of it, but worrying
Speaker 4: about what I didn't know when in reality, like you
Speaker 4: can learn those things, and if you're doing the work,
Speaker 4: you deserve to be paid well for the work that
Speaker 4: you're doing. And if there are deficits in your knowledge,
Speaker 4: you should be able to work with your employer to
Speaker 4: fill those up, to fill the gaps and to learn.
Speaker 4: And I think you should be constantly learning and constantly growing,
Speaker 4: and you know, your salary should be reflective of where
Speaker 4: you are, but also in some way reflective of where
Speaker 4: you're going as well, and your openness to learn new things.
Speaker 4: How about you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, It's something I've definitely felt and I've spoken
Speaker 3: about it on the podcast before. I definitely struggle with
Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. But in terms of asking for a pay rise,
Speaker 3: I remember when I spoke to v about a pay
Speaker 3: rise for she's on the money. I was so intimidated,
Speaker 3: and she's the money.
Speaker 4: Girl everyone to ask for. If anyway you feel good
Speaker 4: about it, it should be here, right.
Speaker 3: But so it went really well and I got my
Speaker 3: desired outcome. But I remember when I sent through my
Speaker 3: first invoice, I felt so guilty. I was like, I'm
Speaker 3: not worthy of this, Like she's gonna find me, oh
Speaker 3: my god. But life just kept on ticking along, and
Speaker 3: it took me a while to feel comfortable in what
Speaker 3: I was earning, and I felt like I've really had
Speaker 3: to prove myself. But here we are now, and I
Speaker 3: definitely feel like the dollar I charge is what I'm worth.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's something that I've definitely struggled with. So
Speaker 3: if you're listening and you ask someone in a similar position,
Speaker 3: than back yourself, baby Jrik on that guilt re salary
Speaker 3: in your company question. I was talking to a mate
Speaker 3: the other day and she is pretty high up in
Speaker 3: marketing at this very trendy brand, and she learned the
Speaker 3: other day that the business actually isn't turning a profit,
Speaker 3: and she'd recently gotten a pay rise, and she felt
Speaker 3: so guilty about having received that pay rise because she
Speaker 3: was like, oh, but the business isn't making money. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but that's not the individual's problem, that's the businesses. And
Speaker 3: you should not have to like forfeit what you're worth
Speaker 3: just because the company is not where they should be at.
Speaker 4: And don't forget the big corps generally earn the big
Speaker 4: dollars correct and like like anything, their subject too, good
Speaker 4: times and bad times. And we're coming off the back
Speaker 4: of COVID, which might be why her company wasn't doing
Speaker 4: so wholely. But you can almost guarantee, like the goal
Speaker 4: of a business is to be profitable. So even if
Speaker 4: they're not being profitable right this second, in the past
Speaker 4: and in the future, there's a very good chance that
Speaker 4: they have been or that they will be, and you,
Speaker 4: as an employee, are contributing.
Speaker 3: To that exactly. They're investing in you for that purpose.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like it's not charity. You know, you are doing
Speaker 4: something to be earning the money you're getting. And I
Speaker 4: think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that that responsibility
Speaker 4: isn't on us to keep it all ticking over.
Speaker 3: So Jorek, why do we put this guilts on ourselves?
Speaker 4: Well, something we say all the time, is that the
Speaker 4: way that we experience money and how we feel about
Speaker 4: it is really deeply rooted in how we perceived finances
Speaker 4: as a child. Or your money story, Yeah, very first episode.
Speaker 4: Shout out to that. Go back and listen to it
Speaker 4: if you haven't, it's a goodie. But you know, maybe
Speaker 4: your family income was low when you grew up and
Speaker 4: this was really stressful, and so now as an adult,
Speaker 4: you find it to be stressful because you haven't seen
Speaker 4: positive discussion around money. Or you might be in this
Speaker 4: position where you're more money than your parents ever did
Speaker 4: or your partner, and that can sometimes be confronting, especially
Speaker 4: when maybe the people around you don't react super positively
Speaker 4: to that either. Yeah, or on the flip side, if
Speaker 4: you grew up with a lot of money and it
Speaker 4: came really easily, you might not be feeling a tangible
Speaker 4: connection to the value of money, or you might be
Speaker 4: feeling guilty if you're not earning an amount of money
Speaker 4: that enables you to live the lifestyle that you grew
Speaker 4: up with. So there's all kinds of different ways that
Speaker 4: we can feel things, And if you listen to the
Speaker 4: Money Diaries episode, you'll know that the feeling of anxiety
Speaker 4: and stress and guilt is quite common, and it comes
Speaker 4: from people from all different backgrounds, Like there's not necessarily
Speaker 4: a If you were raised in this way, you're always
Speaker 4: going to feel good about money and you're never going
Speaker 4: to feel imposter syndrome, and your life's going to be
Speaker 4: so easy. It can absolutely have an impact, But believing
Speaker 4: that we don't deserve a certain amount of money can
Speaker 4: really cause us to self sabotage and stop us from
Speaker 4: growing or developing or earning more money in the future.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 4: Just kind of getting in our own way a lot
Speaker 4: of the time. And I think sure, you know, when
Speaker 4: we were chatting to v about this episode and about
Speaker 4: all of the things that she wanted us to share,
Speaker 4: the big takeaway was that we need to get out
Speaker 4: of our own way and we need to make space
Speaker 4: for ourselves to get what we did. I think that
Speaker 4: is the perfect place to press pause their jay Rick, guys,
Speaker 4: don't go anywhere, because on the other side, we're going
Speaker 4: to be talking through our tips to stop that feeling
Speaker 4: of income guilt, So please don't go anywhere. Already straight
Speaker 4: back into it, jay Rick, I wanted to have a
Speaker 4: chat about how we stop this feeling of income guilt,
Speaker 4: or at least how we can ease it a little bit.
Speaker 4: These are some top tips from Victoria Devine herself, so
Speaker 4: let's jump into them. The first is to understand where
Speaker 4: your guilt comes from. So firstly, you need to notice
Speaker 4: that you have a problem with earning money to begin with,
Speaker 4: and then you need to work out where it's coming from.
Speaker 4: Try to think about how money was spoken about when
Speaker 4: you were growing up, how your parents and even your
Speaker 4: grandparents felt about it, and you'll find that those answers
Speaker 4: may really help you to start to heal and shed
Speaker 4: some light on where this is all stemming from. So yeah,
Speaker 4: taking some time to do that, I think is really important.
Speaker 4: The second tip here is to take control of how
Speaker 4: you feel about money by taking action. So once you've
Speaker 4: discovered where your income guilt stems from, it's a really
Speaker 4: good idea to take control of how to view your
Speaker 4: own finances. Take ownership of your decisions and make sure
Speaker 4: they stem from your own personal belief system and not
Speaker 4: one that you inherited, so that's really reflecting on your
Speaker 4: own values rather than other people's. The third tip here
Speaker 4: is to be grateful for the money that you are
Speaker 4: able to earn. So gratitude is a really great starting
Speaker 4: point and something of a silver bullet. Shifting your focus
Speaker 4: from guilt to gratitude is not easy, but it is
Speaker 4: worth it. So as soon as you can recognize how
Speaker 4: lucky you are, you can begin to feel grateful for
Speaker 4: your luck. You can be grateful for your skill, be
Speaker 4: grateful for the privileges you've had, and so on. I
Speaker 4: feel like that's one that's particularly pertinent on both ends
Speaker 4: of the spectrum, like we were saying earlier, like guilt
Speaker 4: over earning too much, but also guilt over not earning
Speaker 4: enough or not doing enough or being enough. I think
Speaker 4: that a lot of this guilt comes from the comparison
Speaker 4: game and you're emails seeing people with less than you
Speaker 4: or people with more. And that's where for me personally,
Speaker 4: I know that a lot of my feelings come from
Speaker 4: when I am feeling guilty or overwhelmed or imposter syndrome esque,
Speaker 4: and yeah, just being able to take a step back
Speaker 4: and say, oh my gosh, like I'm lucky and I'm
Speaker 4: working hard and I'm doing good things and that does
Speaker 4: not come at the direct detriment of other people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really, well, said, just let's shift our focus and
Speaker 3: chat about emerging industries. We know that lots of people
Speaker 3: in our community work in emerging industries that didn't exist
Speaker 3: a few years ago, and you and I both do
Speaker 3: as well in the podcasting space. Do you think working
Speaker 3: in an emerging industry that's maybe not quite understood by
Speaker 3: older generations, do you think that can lead to a
Speaker 3: sense of imposter syndrome?
Speaker 4: Oh, a thousand percent.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Firstly because we don't have a blueprint for what salary
Speaker 4: or what life structure should look like. Like a lot
Speaker 4: of the emerging industries at the moment are in the
Speaker 4: creative space or in the tech space, because those are
Speaker 4: areas that are developing like never before. Is new technology
Speaker 4: and new things become available. Influencers, content creators, podcasters, all
Speaker 4: of these things. If you had said five years ago
Speaker 4: I podcast for a living, people wouldn't be even known
Speaker 4: what that meant now, let alone believe that you could
Speaker 4: make good money from it. And so I think the
Speaker 4: fact that there's not really a clear linear process to follow,
Speaker 4: like do you need to go to UNI, Absolutely not.
Speaker 4: Do you need to be you know, a certain sized company, No,
Speaker 4: you can do it as a person by yourself, and
Speaker 4: so those common I think frameworks or goals or achievements
Speaker 4: that apply to your regular job don't necessarily apply here,
Speaker 4: and it can make it hard to kind of go,
Speaker 4: Am I on the right track? Am I progressing well?
Speaker 4: Am I doing too much? Too little? And so that
Speaker 4: makes it really tricky. And then on the flip side
Speaker 4: of that, a lot of the time, and I definitely
Speaker 4: feel this as a creative, both in my full time
Speaker 4: and my side hustle, people don't necessarily understand what you do.
Speaker 4: And I think if you follow me on TikTok at
Speaker 4: Jess do Ricky, I put up a TikTok that was
Speaker 4: reflecting on when I was younger. I would get in
Speaker 4: trouble sometimes for making little videos, and I had a
Speaker 4: YouTube channel and I made these little videos and it
Speaker 4: was all very fun, and I used to get the
Speaker 4: old go outside and have a run around, play, you
Speaker 4: do something productive. You're looking at your screen all the time.
Speaker 4: But that is actually what got me this job, the
Speaker 4: highest earning job that I've ever had, the job that
Speaker 4: really fulfills me the most that I ever have experienced.
Speaker 4: And when people don't understand something, it's very easy for
Speaker 4: to be dismissive of it, and maybe you want to
Speaker 4: build your own business. Maybe you're a small business owner
Speaker 4: and your friends just don't understand that, or maybe you're
Speaker 4: researching into a new area that hasn't developed yet, and
Speaker 4: people go, why are you wasting your time? And that
Speaker 4: can really feed into your feeling of imposter syndrome or
Speaker 4: your feeling of you know, am I doing the right thing?
Speaker 4: Am I? You know? Embarrassed? And just like you don't
Speaker 4: necessarily have a support network or people who understand it,
Speaker 4: And I think that can be really isolating, and that
Speaker 4: can kind of trigger those feelings of guilt and self doubt.
Speaker 3: Have you ever felt kind of like shame or like
Speaker 3: embarrassed if, say, your auntie at family Christmas is like, so,
Speaker 3: what are you doing with yourself?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Just got did you? And you're like, I work in
Speaker 3: the podcasting space. Have you ever felt that kind of
Speaker 3: judgment from older gens or even people our age that
Speaker 3: are like podcasting like what a gag? Like that's not
Speaker 3: gonna last long? Oh for sure?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think podcasting, on some level, I have
Speaker 4: the security of being able to be like she's on
Speaker 4: the Money's the biggest business podcast in the country, yeah,
Speaker 4: but like there's a level of legitimacy there. But particularly
Speaker 4: in my side hustle, where I create content and I
Speaker 4: have for a very long time, it's hard to be
Speaker 4: like I take photos for Instagram and you almost fall
Speaker 4: down this whole of having to justify it and be like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, no, it's like a billion dollar industry
Speaker 4: and like it's marketing and it's this and it's that,
Speaker 4: and you know, I really find myself trying to back
Speaker 4: myself up with all of these things, like what I
Speaker 4: do isn't enough, and it's like, well, it is because
Speaker 4: huge companies pay me money to do these things for them,
Speaker 4: and that should be fine, Like I shouldn't have to
Speaker 4: justify it any further, but I really feel like I do,
Speaker 4: and it is. It's a level of embarrassment because I
Speaker 4: feel like people who aren't in that space don't understand
Speaker 4: and would you be the same freelancing for sure?
Speaker 3: For sure, especially with a podcast. I'm always like if
Speaker 3: people are like George podcast, I'm like, yeah, it's just
Speaker 3: this little thing on the side. And then I had
Speaker 3: actually not that little The other day one of the
Speaker 3: boys from work was like, Oh, what's this podcast you
Speaker 3: speak of, and I was like, oh, it's called She's
Speaker 3: on the Money. He looked up.
Speaker 4: He was like, oh my god, like four.
Speaker 3: Point seven thousand bloody reviews or whatever it was. He's like,
Speaker 3: how many listens to you guys? Average? Anyway, we went
Speaker 3: into it, and it was weird seeing him kind of
Speaker 3: like switch and be like, oh, you're like, it's just
Speaker 3: like you're not just in your bedroom floor with two
Speaker 3: microphones just chatting. There's a little bit more to it.
Speaker 3: And that was I'm going to be honest, like really
Speaker 3: really satisfying exactly. So just a little old thing on
Speaker 3: the side. But yeah, no, I think it is a
Speaker 3: really interesting space, and you know, not to bring gender
Speaker 3: into the fold too much, but I think especially with
Speaker 3: the content creation and kind of influencer space, it is
Speaker 3: female dominated, and I think there is a correlation between
Speaker 3: why those industries aren't taken seriously because it is female dominated.
Speaker 4: This is something that really annoys me because I am
Speaker 4: in the content space, but the media, particularly the way
Speaker 4: they position influencing partially but also other like YouTube or
Speaker 4: any of those other platforms podcasting as well, that it's
Speaker 4: positioned as like silly little girls who are really vapid
Speaker 4: who care about themselves and they're super self absorbed and
Speaker 4: they want to listen to the sound of their own voice.
Speaker 4: It just gets me going, like it makes me so mad,
Speaker 4: And you're right, like do men in this space get it?
Speaker 4: For sure? But it really feels like it's being trivialized
Speaker 4: because it's something that women are primarily doing. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: a lot of the time it's areas that women are
Speaker 4: passionate about. So you know, sometimes fashion and beauty if
Speaker 4: we look at the beauty gurus that I grew up watching,
Speaker 4: you know, now it's evolved into like the educational space
Speaker 4: where you know, finance or women's rights, politics, podcasts and
Speaker 4: platforms that are aimed to make these concepts that have
Speaker 4: previously been elusive more accessible. And it still feels like
Speaker 4: the really hard work that these women are doing is
Speaker 4: being diminished.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not being taken seriously.
Speaker 4: No, And it's like hey, my Jews or dode like
Speaker 4: comes it comes from women as well, Like these people
Speaker 4: are working so hard and things that look easy going
Speaker 4: back to your friend, even if you were making a
Speaker 4: podcast from your bedroom floor, it's I mean, that's's where
Speaker 4: we started. It's not easy. It's a lot of hard
Speaker 4: work to script and conceptualize and edit and produce and market,
Speaker 4: and you're the person doing all of that. A lot
Speaker 4: of the time when you're starting out, it's one or
Speaker 4: two people, and that is really I think undervalued and
Speaker 4: underappreciated a lot of the time. And it just makes
Speaker 4: me really.
Speaker 3: Mad, for sure, and it does. It extends to so
Speaker 3: many industries, the music industry. Taylor Swift versus Advance Joy,
Speaker 3: they put it the same music danced Joy is taken seriously,
Speaker 3: Taylor Swift just a fluffy, old little pop singer. I
Speaker 3: don't know where I heard that comparison recently. It's not
Speaker 3: my own, but it's very frustrating. Let's get back on track.
Speaker 3: Ye sorry, I loved it. So let's talk about the
Speaker 3: difference between working for a non for profit and a
Speaker 3: corporate jest, So, if we work for a corporate presumably
Speaker 3: we're going to be able to make more money, even
Speaker 3: if we're doing the same job as we were in
Speaker 3: a non for profit. Do you think that can lead
Speaker 3: to feelings of inadequacy?
Speaker 4: I think so for sure. And non for profit is
Speaker 4: a really interesting space because it's a little bit more set.
Speaker 4: I think the salary bands are much more specific and
Speaker 4: probably a bit tighter, like you said, than corporate, and
Speaker 4: it can be hard if you have goals, and let's
Speaker 4: be honest, most of us do, it can probably be
Speaker 4: quite difficult to reconcile the passion that you have for
Speaker 4: the work that you're doing, because non for profits do
Speaker 4: incredible work that's super impactful, whereas sometimes if you're working
Speaker 4: big corp you can feel a bit like a cog
Speaker 4: in the wheel. I've never been in this position personally,
Speaker 4: so I don't need to speak out of turn, but
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, grappling if the comparison of like, oh,
Speaker 4: I could go work over here and just turn up
Speaker 4: every day and do my job and be paid more money,
Speaker 4: or I can do this work that I feel passionate
Speaker 4: about would be a little bit of a struggle. And yeah,
Speaker 4: again that kind of internal conflict leading to those feelings
Speaker 4: of inadequacy and comparison and you know, questioning maybe your
Speaker 4: choices a little bit as well, because I think at
Speaker 4: the root of it, these feelings of guilt come from
Speaker 4: a lack of confidence in ourselves and what we're doing
Speaker 4: and the choices we're making and the money we're earning
Speaker 4: and the jobs that we're doing, and so I could
Speaker 4: definitely see how that could be a problem. And to
Speaker 4: anyone who is experiencing that, I think that I would say,
Speaker 4: just really think about what you're doing and the impact
Speaker 4: that you're having. Because they're not for profit. Space does
Speaker 4: incredible things, and there is so much value in being
Speaker 4: able to say I'm doing something that's changing the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Really well said the j Rick. Final question. And
Speaker 3: I think it might kind of impact both of us,
Speaker 3: or we might both be able to speak to it.
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about the confronting nature of out
Speaker 3: earning our parents or our partner big one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, big one, particularly as a female.
Speaker 3: Correct. Correct, is that something you've felt guilty about in
Speaker 3: the past. I think you experienced that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've said on the pod before. My partner's in
Speaker 4: his last year of NUMI. So this year he's spending
Speaker 4: his entire year on placement, which means that he's not
Speaker 4: earning money. Yeah, unfortunately. So even without that, I'm out
Speaker 4: earning him, and then when he steps into an entry
Speaker 4: level role, I will certainly be out earning him still
Speaker 4: for a year or two before he works his way up.
Speaker 4: I don't feel guilty. I think I've gotten quite good
Speaker 4: at going Hey, like the path that I've chosen his
Speaker 4: loads of here, and I've worked really hard for it.
Speaker 4: He's obviously a mature age students. His path has looked
Speaker 4: very different to mine, and that is not a bad thing.
Speaker 4: But I think it's definitely for me been more about
Speaker 4: well reconciling what does that look like in a relationship
Speaker 4: and going back to that equality versus equity concept and
Speaker 4: you know, how can we make things easier on each
Speaker 4: other when we're working towards shared goals.
Speaker 3: That's interesting. I feel like I'm kind of similar to you.
Speaker 4: I don't really feel that guilty about don't shouldn't sorry, doll.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's working here. It's rubbing off on me,
Speaker 3: but I definitely understand women who do feel that way,
Speaker 3: or men or non binary friends. But I think it's
Speaker 3: a sign that you're in a really good and non
Speaker 3: toxic relationship if you can celebrate each other's wins and
Speaker 3: compare yourself to your partner and be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: earning more, I'm winning. Like, that's not what it's about.
Speaker 3: It's a team, it's a partnership. Yeah, So I think
Speaker 3: that is interesting.
Speaker 4: If you are feeling guilty, I think having a conversation
Speaker 4: with your partner is a really healthy thing to do
Speaker 4: and just say, oh my gosh, like I'm you know,
Speaker 4: feeling a little bit bad or I'm feeling like this.
Speaker 4: And as you say, if they're a good partner, they'll
Speaker 4: be saying, babe, no, like, I'm so happy for you
Speaker 4: and I'm so proud of you. And maybe you can
Speaker 4: look at ways again that you can kind of equalize things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe you look at splitting your percentage base
Speaker 4: or something like that. But if you are feeling guilty,
Speaker 4: I think that yeah, like we said before, really going
Speaker 4: back to the root of why, because it's not a
Speaker 4: bad thing. It's a really fantastic thing that you're earning
Speaker 4: good money and that you're putting yourself and your partner
Speaker 4: in a position where you can achieve the things that
Speaker 4: you want to and you can build that lifestyle. And
Speaker 4: you know, if your partner's not there yet, what can
Speaker 4: you do to help them along the way? Y? Do
Speaker 4: you need to encourage them just stand up for themselves
Speaker 4: and get you know, ask for that pay rise or
Speaker 4: that promotion, or are they like my partner and they're
Speaker 4: in the middle of studying and they just need sometimes
Speaker 4: a bit of emotional support or hey, like, you're studying late,
Speaker 4: I cooked dinner. There are other things I think that
Speaker 4: you can bring into a relationship that are super valuable
Speaker 4: that aren't money. Yes, and there's a very good chance
Speaker 4: that you, as a human being are just contributing them
Speaker 4: without even recognizing that. So taking a step back from
Speaker 4: the financial side of things and going, hey, like, what
Speaker 4: other valuable things am I doing and can I do
Speaker 4: in partnership to really make it equal and loving and fulfilling. Yep,
Speaker 4: it's just a relationship advice. Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 3: If you do need more tips on achieving equity within
Speaker 3: a relationship, we did do a whole podcast on that
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago. Maybe, so have a little
Speaker 3: scroll back to find that one. Jarek, I think that
Speaker 3: is probably the perfect place to leave it today. I
Speaker 3: feel like the moral of the story is to go
Speaker 3: easier on yourself. Yeah, just don't be so harsh.
Speaker 4: If you need someone to tell you that you are
Speaker 4: worthy and deserving of where you're at, whether you're earning
Speaker 4: more than you think you should be or not as
Speaker 4: much as you think you should be. Let it be us.
Speaker 4: You are doing really well and life is a journey.
Speaker 4: And not to get super like go on super smushy
Speaker 4: mushy on you, but you're doing good things and you're
Speaker 4: only part way through your life unless you're you know,
Speaker 4: one hundred years old hopefully and knocking on the door stop.
Speaker 4: You've got so much time to do things. And you
Speaker 4: know where you are now isn't where you're going to
Speaker 4: be forever. And I yeah, just yourself some slack yeap,
Speaker 4: and sometimes you just need to hear someone say that.
Speaker 3: Love that j Rick. All right, let's jump into the
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