1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,080 Speaker 1: Just before we get started, we'd like to acknowledge and 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest Rate islander peoples. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing 5 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and for caring for the land on which we are 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: able to learn. We pay respects to elders past and present, 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 1: and we share our friendship and our kindness. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 9 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast 10 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 3: for millennials who want financial freedom. My name is Georgia King, 11 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: and joining me for our first ever deep dive together 12 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: is the delightful Jessica Ricchie. Hello, Jr. 13 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 4: I'm good. You're right. We've both done them with V before. 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: We have. 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 5: Unfortunately, if you listened to Friday's episode, or if you 16 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 5: follow VD on Instagram, you'd know the voice is gone. 17 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 4: Gil can't speak, not a whisper of a word. And 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 4: so today you've got us. 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: You've got us, and like, don't worry, it's not a 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 3: financial advice episode. We're talking more about the psychology of 21 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 3: income guilt. Now, Jarek, This is a relatively new term, 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,080 Speaker 3: but not a new experience. It can be a vague 23 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: and difficult feeling to describe. It can be a reaction 24 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 3: to socioeconomic inequality, but it can also very often be 25 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 3: a result of your money story and your background. 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 5: One hundred percent and a while ago, we looked at 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 5: spending guilt and that episode really resonated with a lot 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 5: of people, so we thought that this might be something 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 5: good to accompany it, particularly after we spoke to a 30 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 5: money diarist recently where we touched on it and we 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 5: had some really really positive feedback and we were like, 32 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 5: oh my. 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 3: Gosh, it's not just us, yeah, everybody. 34 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 5: So we really drilled down on it in that episode 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 5: that guilt exists to tell us something about ourselves and 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 5: where we are. So it's kind of like the canary 37 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 5: and the mind shaft concept if you're familiar with that. 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 5: It's definitely not a healthy feeling to dwell in, unfortunately, 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 5: So it should be a catalyst instead of resonating in 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 5: your own guilt, instead of stewing on it, it should 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 5: be kind of pushing us to look at the root 42 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 5: cause of why we're feeling this way and addressing it and. 43 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 3: That's what today's episode is all about. We aren't just 44 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: talking about guilt or shame that you're earning too much though, 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 3: for example, you're earning what you need, but you might 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 3: feel shame or pressure that it's not more. You might 47 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 3: compare yourself to your colleagues or your mates who are 48 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 3: on different wickets and think, oh god, why is that 49 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 3: no where I'm at? So, yeah, it's going to be 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: a very interesting episode. We should say as well that 51 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 3: we have spoken to Victoria before today's episode. These are 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: all of her notes and hot tips and we're kind 53 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 3: of just expanding on them. So if you're just like, 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: who are these two silly nuts, we have spoken to 55 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: the great Victoria Devine and she's behind today's episode. So 56 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 3: that's that already. Jay Rick, what are some of the 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 3: common negative thoughts we have when it comes to earning guilt? 58 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, all right, we've kind of drilled them down into 59 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 5: two biggie's, which is the iron you lose and the 60 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 5: I'm a fraud I don't deserve this. So the iron 61 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 5: you lose concept is kind of when you get stuck 62 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,119 Speaker 5: into thinking that if you're succeeding, you're taking it away 63 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 5: from somebody else. So you know, if I'm earning a 64 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 5: really good salary, that must be in George that unfortunately 65 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 5: there's not enough left there for you. Yeah, and so 66 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 5: I'm depleting the resources available to you. 67 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 3: So if we're in the same company, yeah. 68 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 5: Exactly right, which shouldn't be the case. And I think 69 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 5: that that's kind of something that a lot of people 70 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 5: maybe feel as a result of, you know, workplace competitiveness 71 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 5: or the inability to talk about your wages as well. 72 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 5: I think kind of capitalizes on this a little bit. 73 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 5: And it's really really unfortunate. So while the world is 74 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 5: really unfair with the distribution of money, it's not your salary. 75 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 5: And it's really hard when you're feeling super guilty to 76 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 5: not think that you're the root cause of all these problems. 77 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 5: But it's definitely your salary shouldn't be impacting the broader 78 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 5: world as we know it. In reality, you're getting paid 79 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 5: your wage. It's only adding to the flow of money. 80 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 5: You can say, if you can invest, you can donate 81 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 5: to charity if that's what you want to do, you 82 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 5: can do all of these really great things. And then 83 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 5: the second option is kind of the flip side of that. 84 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 5: And it's where you have that overwhelming imposter syndrome. You 85 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 5: feel like you don't deserve what you're earning, and women 86 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 5: definitely feel this more commonly. Unfortunately, in our recent episode 87 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 5: about how to have difficult conversations with your boss, we 88 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 5: actually learned from you, George, that only seven percent of 89 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 5: women we'll try and negotiate a salary when applying for 90 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 5: a new job, whereas fifty seven percent of men willstounding, 91 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 5: isn't it. 92 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 4: I knew it was bad. 93 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 5: I did not know it was that bad until I 94 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 5: listened to that episode. Once they're working, less than one 95 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 5: in five women are asking for a pay rise without 96 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 5: being prompted, compared to one in three men. So you 97 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 5: should know you are valuable as a woman, as a man, 98 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 5: as a non binary friend. You are deserving of that 99 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 5: money and you shouldn't be feeling bad for us about it. 100 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 5: And also give people credit. They usually know what they're 101 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 5: talking about when it comes to hiring, and they hired 102 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 5: you for a reason. 103 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 4: You're bringing skills to a role. 104 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: I would assume you don't have to be compensated for that. 105 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 3: Is that something that you've battled with, Jay Rick. 106 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 5: I think a little bit I think particularly when I 107 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 5: changed industries, so I you know, started super corporate and 108 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 5: then moved to more creative And I have said before 109 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 5: I did it without a degree, So for me, there 110 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 5: was definitely a little bit of knowing that I had 111 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 5: the skills to do the job that I do now 112 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 5: and that I was freelancing in for a very long time, 113 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 5: I had a proven track record of it, but worrying 114 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 5: about what I didn't know when in reality, like you 115 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 5: can learn those things, and if you're doing the work, 116 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 5: you deserve to be paid well for the work that 117 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 5: you're doing. And if there are deficits in your knowledge, 118 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 5: you should be able to work with your employer to 119 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 5: fill those up, to fill the gaps and to learn. 120 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 5: And I think you should be constantly learning and constantly growing, 121 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 5: and you know, your salary should be reflective of where 122 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 5: you are, but also in some way reflective of where 123 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 5: you're going as well, and your openness to learn new things. 124 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 4: How about you? 125 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, No, It's something I've definitely felt and I've spoken 126 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 3: about it on the podcast before. I definitely struggle with 127 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 3: imposter syndrome. But in terms of asking for a pay rise, 128 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 3: I remember when I spoke to v about a pay 129 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: rise for she's on the money. I was so intimidated, 130 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: and she's the money. 131 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 4: Girl everyone to ask for. If anyway you feel good 132 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 4: about it, it should be here, right. 133 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: But so it went really well and I got my 134 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 3: desired outcome. But I remember when I sent through my 135 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 3: first invoice, I felt so guilty. I was like, I'm 136 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 3: not worthy of this, Like she's gonna find me, oh 137 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 3: my god. But life just kept on ticking along, and 138 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: it took me a while to feel comfortable in what 139 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: I was earning, and I felt like I've really had 140 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 3: to prove myself. But here we are now, and I 141 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: definitely feel like the dollar I charge is what I'm worth. 142 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's something that I've definitely struggled with. So 143 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: if you're listening and you ask someone in a similar position, 144 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 3: than back yourself, baby Jrik on that guilt re salary 145 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 3: in your company question. I was talking to a mate 146 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 3: the other day and she is pretty high up in 147 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 3: marketing at this very trendy brand, and she learned the 148 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: other day that the business actually isn't turning a profit, 149 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: and she'd recently gotten a pay rise, and she felt 150 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 3: so guilty about having received that pay rise because she 151 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: was like, oh, but the business isn't making money. Yeah, 152 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 3: but that's not the individual's problem, that's the businesses. And 153 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: you should not have to like forfeit what you're worth 154 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: just because the company is not where they should be at. 155 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 5: And don't forget the big corps generally earn the big 156 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 5: dollars correct and like like anything, their subject too good 157 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 5: times and bad times. And we're coming off the back 158 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 5: of COVID, which might be why her company wasn't doing 159 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 5: so wholely. But you can almost guarantee, like the goal 160 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 5: of a business is to be profitable. So even if 161 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 5: they're not being profitable right this second, in the past 162 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 5: and in the future, there's a very good chance that 163 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 5: they have been or that they will be, and you, 164 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 5: as an employee, are contributing. 165 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: To that exactly. They're investing in you for that purpose. 166 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, Like it's not charity. You know, you are doing 167 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 5: something to be earning the money you're getting. And I 168 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 5: think sometimes we have to remind ourselves that that responsibility 169 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 5: isn't on us to keep it all ticking over. 170 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: So Jarek, why do we put this guilts on ourselves? 171 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 5: Well, something we say all the time, is that the 172 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 5: way that we experience money and how we feel about 173 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 5: it is really deeply rooted in how we perceived finances 174 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 5: as a child. Or your money story, Yeah, very first episode. 175 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 5: Shout out to that. Go back and listen to it 176 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 5: if you haven't, it's a goodie. But you know, maybe 177 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 5: your family income was low when you grew up and 178 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 5: this was really stressful, and so now as an adult, 179 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 5: you find it to be stressful because you haven't seen 180 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 5: positive discussion around money. Or you might be in this 181 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 5: position where you're more money than your parents ever did 182 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 5: or your partner, and that can sometimes be confronting, especially 183 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 5: when maybe the people around you don't react super positively 184 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 5: to that either. Yeah, or on the flip side, if 185 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 5: you grew up with a lot of money and it 186 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 5: came really easily, you might not be feeling a tangible 187 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 5: connection to the value of money, or you might be 188 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 5: feeling guilty if you're not earning an amount of money 189 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 5: that enables you to live the lifestyle that you grew 190 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 5: up with. So there's all kinds of different ways that 191 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 5: we can feel things, And if you listen to the 192 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 5: Money Diaries episode, you'll know that the feeling of anxiety 193 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 5: and stress and guilt is quite common, and it comes 194 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 5: from people from all different backgrounds, Like there's not necessarily 195 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 5: a If you were raised in this way, you're always 196 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 5: going to feel good about money and you're never going 197 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 5: to feel imposter syndrome. 198 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,319 Speaker 4: And your life's going to be so easy. 199 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 5: It can absolutely have an impact, But believing that we 200 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 5: don't deserve a certain amount of money can really cause 201 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 5: us to self sabotage and stop us from growing or 202 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 5: developing or earning more money in the future. 203 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so true. 204 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 5: Just kind of getting in our own way a lot 205 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 5: of the time. And I think sure, you know, when 206 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 5: we were chatting to v about this episode and about 207 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 5: all of the things that she wanted us to share, 208 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 5: the big takeaway was that we need to get out 209 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 5: of our own way and we need to make space 210 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 5: for ourselves to get what we did. I think that 211 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 5: is the perfect place to press pause their jay Rick, guys, 212 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 5: don't go anywhere, because on the other side, we're going 213 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 5: to be talking through our tips to stop that feeling 214 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 5: of income guilt, So please don't go anywhere. Already straight 215 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 5: back into it, jay Rick, I wanted to have a 216 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 5: chat about how we stop this feeling of income guilt, 217 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 5: or at least how we can ease it a little bit. 218 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 5: These are some top tips from Victoria Devine herself, so 219 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 5: let's jump into them. The first is to understand where 220 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 5: your guilt comes from. So firstly, you need to notice 221 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 5: that you have a problem with earning money to begin with, 222 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 5: and then you need to work out where it's coming from. 223 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 5: Try to think about how money was spoken about when 224 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 5: you were growing up, how your parents and even your 225 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 5: grandparents felt about it, and you'll find that those answers 226 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 5: may really help you to start to heal and shed 227 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 5: some light on where this is all stemming from. So yeah, 228 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 5: taking some time to do that, I think is really important. 229 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 5: The second tip here is to take control of how 230 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 5: you feel about money by taking action. So once you've 231 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 5: discovered where your income guilt stems from, it's a really 232 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 5: good idea to take control of how to view your 233 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 5: own finances. Take ownership of your decisions and make sure 234 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 5: they stem from your own personal belief system and not 235 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 5: one that you inherited, so that's really reflecting on your 236 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 5: own values rather than other people's. The third tip here 237 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 5: is to be grateful for the money that you are 238 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 5: able to earn. So gratitude is a really great starting 239 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 5: point and something of a silver bullet. Shifting your focus 240 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 5: from guilt to gratitude is not easy, but it is 241 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 5: worth it. So as soon as you can recognize how 242 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 5: lucky you are, you can begin to feel grateful for 243 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 5: your luck. You can be grateful for your skill, be 244 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 5: grateful for the privileges you've had, and so on. I 245 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 5: feel like that's one that's particularly pertinent on both ends 246 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 5: of the spectrum, like we were saying earlier, like guilt 247 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: over earning too much, but also guilt over not earning 248 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 5: enough or not doing enough or being enough. I think 249 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 5: that a lot of this guilt comes from the comparison 250 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,079 Speaker 5: game and you're emails seeing people with less than you 251 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 5: or people with more. And that's where for me personally, 252 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 5: I know that a lot of my feelings come from 253 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 5: when I am feeling guilty or overwhelmed or imposter syndrome esque, 254 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 5: and yeah, just being able to take a step back 255 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 5: and say, oh my gosh, like I'm lucky and I'm 256 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 5: working hard and I'm doing good things and that does 257 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 5: not come at the direct detriment of other people. 258 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, really, well, said, just let's shift our focus and 259 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 3: chat about emerging industries. We know that lots of people 260 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 3: in our community work in emerging industries that didn't exist 261 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: a few years ago, and you and I both do 262 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: as well in the podcasting space. Do you think working 263 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 3: in an emerging industry that's maybe not quite understood by 264 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: older generations, do you think that can lead to a 265 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: sense of imposter syndrome? 266 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 4: Oh, a thousand percent. 267 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 268 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 5: Firstly because we don't have a blueprint for what salary 269 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 5: or what life structure should look like. Like a lot 270 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 5: of the emerging industries at the moment are in the 271 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 5: creative space or in the tech space, because those are 272 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,479 Speaker 5: areas that are developing like never before. Is new technology 273 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 5: and new things become available. Influencers, content creators, podcasters, all 274 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 5: of these things. If you had said five years ago 275 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 5: I podcast for a living, people wouldn't be even known 276 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 5: what that meant now, let alone believe that you could 277 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 5: make good money from it. And so I think the 278 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 5: fact that there's not really a clear linear process to follow, 279 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 5: like do you need to go to UNI, Absolutely not. 280 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 5: Do you need to be you know, a certain sized company, No, 281 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 5: you can do it as a person by yourself, and 282 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 5: so those common I think frameworks or goals or achievements 283 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 5: that apply to your regular job don't necessarily apply here, 284 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 5: and it can make it hard to kind of go, 285 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 5: Am I on the right track? 286 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: Am I progressing well? Am I doing too much? Too little? 287 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 5: And so that makes it really tricky. And then on 288 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 5: the flip side of that, a lot of the time, 289 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: and I definitely feel this as a creative, both in 290 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 5: my full time and my side hustle, people don't necessarily 291 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 5: understand what you do. 292 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 4: And I think if you. 293 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 5: Follow me on TikTok at Jess do Ricky, I put 294 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 5: up a TikTok that was reflecting on when I was younger. 295 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 5: I would get in trouble sometimes for making little videos, 296 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 5: and I had a YouTube channel and I made these 297 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 5: little videos and it was all very fun, and I 298 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 5: used to get the old go outside and have a 299 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 5: run around, play, you do something productive. You're looking at 300 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 5: your screen all the time. But that is actually what 301 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 5: got me this job, the highest earning job that I've 302 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 5: ever had, the job that really fulfills me the most 303 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 5: that I ever have experienced. And when people don't understand something, 304 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 5: it's very easy for to be dismissive of it, and 305 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 5: maybe you want to build your own business. Maybe you're 306 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 5: a small business owner and your friends just don't understand that, 307 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 5: or maybe you're researching into a new area that hasn't 308 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 5: developed yet, and people go, why are you wasting your time? 309 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 5: And that can really feed into your feeling of imposter 310 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 5: syndrome or your feeling of you know, am I doing 311 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 5: the right thing? 312 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,239 Speaker 4: Am I? You know? Embarrassed? 313 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 5: And just like you don't necessarily have a support network 314 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 5: or people who understand it, And I think that can 315 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 5: be really isolating, and that can kind of trigger those 316 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 5: feelings of guilt and self doubt. 317 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: Have you ever felt kind of like shame or like 318 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 3: embarrassed if, say, your auntie at family Christmas is like, so, 319 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 3: what are you doing with yourself? Now? Just got did you? 320 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: And you're like, I work in the podcasting space. Have 321 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: you ever felt that kind of judgment from older gens 322 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 3: or even people our age that are like podcasting like 323 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 3: what a gag? Like that's not gonna last long? Oh 324 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 3: for sure? 325 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think podcasting, on some level, I have 326 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 5: the security of being able to be like she's on 327 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 5: the Money's the biggest business podcast in the country, yeah, 328 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 5: but like there's a level of legitimacy there. But particularly 329 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 5: in my side hustle, where I create content and I 330 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 5: have for a very long time, it's hard to be 331 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 5: like I take photos for Instagram and you almost fall 332 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 5: down this whole of having to justify it and be like, 333 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 5: oh my god, no, it's like a billion dollar industry 334 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 5: and like it's marketing and it's this and it's that, 335 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 5: and you know, I really find myself trying to back 336 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 5: myself up with all of these things, like what I 337 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 5: do isn't enough, and it's like, well, it is because 338 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 5: huge companies pay me money to do these things for them, 339 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 5: and that should be fine, Like I shouldn't have to 340 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 5: justify it any further, but I really feel like I do, 341 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 5: and it is. It's a level of embarrassment because I 342 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 5: feel like people who aren't in that space don't understand 343 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 5: and would you be the same freelancing for sure? 344 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 3: For sure, especially with a podcast. I'm always like if 345 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: people are like George podcast, I'm like, yeah, it's just 346 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 3: this little thing on the side. 347 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,400 Speaker 4: And then I had actually not that little. 348 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 3: The other day one of the boys from work was like, Oh, 349 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 3: what's this podcast you speak of, and I was like, oh, 350 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 3: it's called She's on the Money. He looked up. 351 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 4: He was like, oh my god, like four. 352 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: Point seven thousand bloody reviews or whatever it was. He's like, 353 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: how many listens to you guys? Average? Anyway, we went 354 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 3: into it, and it was weird seeing him kind of 355 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 3: like switch and be like, oh, you're like, it's just 356 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: like you're not just in your bedroom floor with two 357 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 3: microphones just chatting. There's a little bit more to it. 358 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 3: And that was I'm going to be honest, like really 359 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 3: really satisfying exactly. So just a little old thing on 360 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 3: the side. But yeah, no, I think it is a 361 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: really interesting space, and you know, not to bring gender 362 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: into the fold too much, but I think especially with 363 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: the content creation and kind of influencer space, it is 364 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 3: female dominated, and I think there is a correlation between 365 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 3: why those industries aren't taken seriously because it is female dominated. 366 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 5: This is something that really annoys me because I am 367 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,400 Speaker 5: in the content space, but the media, particularly the way 368 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 5: they position influencing partially but also other like YouTube or 369 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 5: any of those other platforms podcasting as well, that it's 370 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 5: positioned as like silly little girls who are really vapid 371 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 5: who care about themselves and they're super self absorbed and 372 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 5: they want to listen to the sound of their own voice. 373 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 5: It just gets me going, like it makes me so mad, 374 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 5: And you're right, like do men in this space get it? 375 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 4: For sure? 376 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 5: But it really feels like it's being trivialized because it's 377 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 5: something that women are primarily doing. Yeah, and a lot 378 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 5: of the time it's areas that women are passionate about. 379 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 5: So you know, sometimes fashion and beauty if we look 380 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 5: at the beauty gurus that I grew up watching, you know, 381 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 5: now it's evolved into like the educational space where you know, 382 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 5: finance or women's rights, politics, podcasts and platforms that are 383 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 5: aimed to make these concepts that have previously been elusive 384 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 5: more accessible. And it still feels like the really hard 385 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 5: work that these women are doing is being diminished. 386 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not being taken seriously. 387 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 5: No, And it's like hey, my Jews or dode like 388 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 5: comes it comes from women as well, Like these people 389 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 5: are working so hard and things that look easy going 390 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 5: back to your friend, even if you were making a 391 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 5: podcast from your bedroom floor, it's I mean, that's's where 392 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 5: we started. 393 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 4: It's not easy. 394 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 5: It's a lot of hard work to script and conceptualize 395 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 5: and edit and produce and market, and you're the person 396 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 5: doing all of that. A lot of the time when 397 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 5: you're starting out, it's one or two people, and that 398 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 5: is really I think undervalued. 399 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 4: And underappreciated a lot of the time. And it just 400 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 4: makes me really. 401 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 3: Mad, for sure, and it does. It extends to so 402 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 3: many industries, the music industry. Taylor Swift versus Advance Joy, 403 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 3: they put it the same music danced Joy is taken seriously, 404 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 3: Taylor Swift just a fluffy, old little pop singer. I 405 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 3: don't know where I heard that comparison recently. It's not 406 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 3: my own, but it's very frustrating. Let's get back on track. 407 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 3: Ye sorry, I loved it. So let's talk about the 408 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 3: difference between working for a non for profit and a 409 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: corporate jest, So, if we work for a corporate presumably 410 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 3: we're going to be able to make more money, even 411 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 3: if we're doing the same job as we were in 412 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 3: a non for profit. Do you think that can lead 413 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 3: to feelings of inadequacy? 414 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 4: I think so for sure. 415 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 5: And non for profit is a really interesting space because 416 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 5: it's a little bit more set. I think the salary 417 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 5: bands are much more specific and probably a bit tighter, 418 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 5: like you said, than corporate, and it can be hard 419 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 5: if you have goals, and let's be honest, most of 420 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 5: us do, it can probably be quite difficult to reconcile 421 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 5: the passion that you have for the work that you're doing, 422 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 5: because non for profits do incredible work that's super impactful, 423 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 5: whereas sometimes if you're working big corp you can feel 424 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 5: a bit like a cog in the wheel. I've never 425 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 5: been in this position personally, so I don't need to 426 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 5: speak out of turn, but I think, yeah, grappling if 427 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 5: the comparison of like, oh, I could go work over 428 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 5: here and just turn up every day and do my 429 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 5: job and be paid more money, or I can do 430 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 5: this work that I feel passionate about would be a 431 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 5: little bit of a struggle. And yeah, again that kind 432 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 5: of internal conflict leading to those feelings of inadequacy and 433 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 5: comparison and you know, questioning maybe your choices a little 434 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 5: bit as well, because I think at the root of it, 435 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 5: these feelings of guilt come from a lack of confidence 436 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,200 Speaker 5: in ourselves and what we're doing and the choices we're 437 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 5: making and the money we're earning and the jobs that 438 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 5: we're doing, and so I could definitely see how that 439 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 5: could be a problem. And to anyone who is experiencing that, 440 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 5: I think that I would say, just really think about 441 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 5: what you're doing and the impact that you're having. 442 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 4: Because they're not for profit. 443 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 5: Space does incredible things, and there is so much value 444 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 5: in being able to say I'm doing something that's changing 445 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 5: the world. 446 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. Really well said the j Rick. Final question. And 447 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 3: I think it might kind of impact both of us, 448 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 3: or we might both be able to speak to it. 449 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about the confronting nature of out 450 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: earning our parents or our partner big one. 451 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, big one, particularly as a female. 452 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 3: Correct. Correct, is that something you've felt guilty about in 453 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 3: the past? I think how you experienced that? 454 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I've said on the pod before. My partner's in 455 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 5: his last year of NUMI. So this year he's spending 456 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 5: his entire year on placement, which means that he's not 457 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 5: earning money. Yeah, unfortunately. So even without that, I'm out 458 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 5: earning him, and then when he steps into an entry 459 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 5: level role, I will certainly be out earning him still 460 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 5: for a year or two before he works his way up. 461 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 4: I don't feel guilty. 462 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 5: I think I've gotten quite good at going Hey, like 463 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 5: the path that I've chosen his loads of here, and 464 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 5: I've worked really hard for it. He's obviously a mature 465 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 5: age students. His path has looked very different to mine, 466 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 5: and that is not a bad thing. But I think 467 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 5: it's definitely for me been more about well reconciling what 468 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 5: does that look like in a relationship and going back 469 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 5: to that equality versus equity concept and you know, how 470 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 5: can we make things easier on each other when we're 471 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 5: working towards shared goals. 472 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 3: That's interesting. I feel like I'm kind of similar to you. 473 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 3: I don't really feel that guilty about don't shouldn't. 474 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 4: Sorry, doll. 475 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe it's working here. It's rubbing off on me, 476 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 3: but I definitely understand women who do feel that way, 477 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 3: or men or non binary friends. But I think it's 478 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: a sign that you're in a really good and non 479 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 3: toxic relationship if you can celebrate each other's wins and 480 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: compare yourself to your partner and be like, oh, I'm 481 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 3: earning more, I'm winning. Like, that's not what it's about. 482 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 3: It's a team, it's a partnership. Yeah, so I think 483 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: that is interesting. 484 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 5: If you are feeling guilty, I think having a conversation 485 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 5: with your partner is a really healthy thing to do 486 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 5: and just say, oh my gosh, like I'm you know, 487 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 5: feeling a little bit bad or I'm feeling like this. 488 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 5: And as you say, if they're a good partner, they'll 489 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 5: be saying, babe, no, like, I'm so happy for you 490 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: and I'm so proud of you. And maybe you can 491 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 5: look at ways again that you can kind of equalize thing. Yeah, yeah, 492 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 5: you know, maybe you look at splitting your percentage base 493 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 5: or something like that. But if you are feeling guilty, 494 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 5: I think that yeah, like we said before, really going 495 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 5: back to the root of why, because it's not a 496 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 5: bad thing. It's a really fantastic thing that you're earning 497 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 5: good money and that you're putting yourself and your partner 498 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 5: in a position where you can achieve the things that 499 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 5: you want to and you can build that lifestyle. And 500 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 5: you know, if your partner's not there yet, what can 501 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 5: you do to help them along the way? Y? Do 502 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 5: you need to encourage them just stand up for themselves 503 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 5: and get you know, ask for that pay rise or 504 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 5: that promotion, or are they like my partner and they're 505 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 5: in the middle of studying and they just need sometimes 506 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 5: a bit of emotional support or hey, like, you're studying late, 507 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 5: I cooked dinner. There are other things I think that 508 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 5: you can bring into a relationship that are super valuable 509 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 5: that aren't money. Yes, and there's a very good chance 510 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 5: that you, as a human being are just contributing them 511 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 5: without even recognizing that. So taking a step back from 512 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 5: the financial side of things and going, hey, like, what 513 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 5: other valuable things am I doing and can I do 514 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 5: in partnership to really make it equal and loving and fulfilling. 515 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 4: Yep, it's just a relationship advice. 516 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love it. If you do need 517 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 3: more tips on achieving equity within a relationship, we did 518 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 3: do a whole podcast on that a couple of months ago. Maybe, 519 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 3: so have a little scroll back to find that one. Jarek, 520 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 3: I think that is probably the perfect place to leave 521 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 3: it today. I feel like the moral of the story 522 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 3: is to go easier on yourself. Yeah, just don't be 523 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 3: so harsh if. 524 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 5: You need someone to tell you that you are worthy 525 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 5: and deserving of where you're at, whether you're earning more 526 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 5: than you think you should be or not as much 527 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 5: as you think you should be, let it be us. 528 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 5: You are doing really well and life is a journey. 529 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 5: And not to get super like go on super smushy 530 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 5: mushy on you, but you're doing good things and you're 531 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 5: only part way through your life unless you're you know, 532 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 5: one hundred years old hopefully and knocking on the door stop. 533 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 5: You've got so much time to do things. And you 534 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 5: know where you are now isn't where you're. 535 00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:58,959 Speaker 4: Going to be forever. 536 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 5: And I yeah, just yourself some slack yeap, and sometimes 537 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 5: you just need to hear someone say that. 538 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 3: Love that j Rick. All right, let's jump into the 539 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 3: boring but important stuff, guys. The advice shared on Shees 540 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 3: on the Money is general in nature and does not 541 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: consider your individual circumstances. She's on the Money exists purely 542 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 3: for educational purposes and should not be relied upon to 543 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 3: make an investment or a financial decision. 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