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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is the opposition's spokesperson for education.

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Speaker 1: She's also the member for Catherine Joe Hersey. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Joe.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and good morning listeners. Are very busy day, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and Joe. We'll get to the education stuff

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Speaker 1: from yesterday in just a moment. But this morning I've

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Speaker 1: been keeping an eye on budget estimates and I see

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Speaker 1: that the opposition leader Leofanocchiro has attempted on several occasions

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Speaker 1: to ask the Police Minister, Kate Warden, who's in the

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Speaker 1: hot seat this morning, just how much the police commissioner,

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Speaker 1: the former police Commissioner Jamie Chalker, was paid out. And

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Speaker 1: it seems that it's been very difficult to get a

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Speaker 1: response to that answer.

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Speaker 3: Well, question correct, Katie.

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Speaker 2: It's just been appalling. The Police Minister did not give

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Speaker 2: an opening statement, which is this is a time, Katie,

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Speaker 2: when the Police Minister can tell towards territory in about

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Speaker 2: the positive things that are happening in police. The fact

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Speaker 2: that the chair shut down the very first question, now,

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Speaker 2: let's what.

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Speaker 3: Was the reason for that?

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Speaker 1: What did he say, Joe, what was the reason for that?

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Speaker 1: What did he say? Because a lot of our listeners

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Speaker 1: won't have been watching. They're going to be hearing this

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Speaker 1: for the first time. So I'm assuming that Lee has

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Speaker 1: attempted to ask a question about how much is paid

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Speaker 1: out and Brent Potter, the chair, has shut that question down.

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Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't in the reporting period, and he kept

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Speaker 2: on going back to say that he was very strictly

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Speaker 2: keeping to the period that we were asking questions on

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Speaker 2: up until the March thirty. But it's quite astonishing really that,

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Speaker 2: you know, we are given latitude sometimes to ask questions,

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Speaker 2: and that's what the whole of a budget estimate is about.

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Speaker 2: It's not unusual, you know, for the government to give

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Speaker 2: latitude in asking questions that pertain to him, you know,

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Speaker 2: what is important to territorient Joe.

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Speaker 1: I've just got my hands on a bit of that audio,

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Speaker 1: so we're are just going to play a little bit

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Speaker 1: of that for our listeners right now.

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Speaker 4: Take a listen, Police minister, do you know how much

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Speaker 4: Jamie Chilker was paid out? No, And so if you

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Speaker 4: don't know how much he was paid out, you have

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Speaker 4: no idea how it's impacted your budget's bottom line.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 5: That's incorrect? On this particular matter. There were several elements

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Speaker 5: of the negotiation and the payout that I'm not that

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Speaker 5: was a confidential payout, so I'm not going to discuss

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Speaker 5: that any further.

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Speaker 4: But we were told yesterday by the Treasurer that the

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Speaker 4: entire payout came from the police bottom line. So that means,

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Speaker 4: as Minister, you must know what hit your department has

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Speaker 4: taken to pay for that payout.

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Speaker 5: So the Commissioner's numeration does fall under our budget, as

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Speaker 5: does any CES renumeration within their department budgets, and it

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Speaker 5: would be totally inappropriate to no line by line around

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Speaker 5: any separations from any agency. So no, I don't know

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Speaker 5: the exact figure.

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Speaker 4: So you just have a global separations budget with no oversight.

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Speaker 5: I think I've answered the question, Joe.

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Speaker 3: Do you think we're ever going to get an answer

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Speaker 3: to that question?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quite extraordinary from the Police Minister. Katie, the Opposition

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Speaker 2: leader was not asking. You know, obviously the Police Minister

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Speaker 2: was saying it's confidential, and then when further questions were asked,

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Speaker 2: she still couldn't answer that. And just you know, it

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Speaker 2: has to have make a difference to the bottom line, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and that is to you know, the operational and the

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Speaker 2: hard working police out there. Something has to give when

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Speaker 2: you were taking a considerable which what we are assuming

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Speaker 2: is a considerable amount to pay out Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Chalker, Joe, let's move along to what unfolded yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: we know that things got pretty heated when you'd asked

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Speaker 1: some questions about the impact that crime was having on education.

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Speaker 1: Now what exactly were you trying to get to the

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Speaker 1: bottom off.

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Speaker 2: Well, the fact is, Katie, we want teachers, staff, support staff, students.

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Speaker 2: They all need to be safe in a school environment.

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Speaker 2: And there's already been eight incidents this year alone with

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Speaker 2: an edge weapon. Twenty eight teachers have been injured this

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Speaker 2: year and twenty five in the previous year. So what

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to ask the Education Minister was about safety

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Speaker 2: four people in a school environment, and she just went

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Speaker 2: off her tree. Basically, it was very unparliamentary. She called

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Speaker 2: me pathetic, which was just out of line, and you know,

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Speaker 2: quite appalling that the Education Minister. You know, it's up

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Speaker 2: for me to ask the questions. She's there to answer them,

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Speaker 2: not sling mud at me for standing up for territory

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Speaker 2: in and in fact education. I talk to a lot

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Speaker 2: of people in education, teaches students right across the territory

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Speaker 2: when I'm traveling, and that you know, even the Education

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Speaker 2: Union was in support of the line of questioning yesterday.

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Speaker 2: So I've had a lot of support in the line

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Speaker 2: of questioning that I had because the first and foremost

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Speaker 2: it's about people being safe in a school environment. If

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Speaker 2: people can't be safe in a school environment, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's what I wanted the education ministers to be over.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, at the end of the day, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: crime is at the forefront for absolutely everybody. You know,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to be talking about it in the

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Speaker 1: way that we are, but we don't want to be

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Speaker 1: feeling unsafe in the way that we are. And that's

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Speaker 1: really at the heart of why those questions are being asked.

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Speaker 1: I would understand and assume based on the conversations that

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Speaker 1: you have with people.

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Speaker 3: In your electorate and other electorates.

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Speaker 1: Joe, So that INFOSO eight incidents for edged weapons this

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Speaker 1: year alone to April, as well as twenty eight teachers

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Speaker 1: injured this year twenty five the previous year. Was that

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Speaker 1: information that you did actually glean from yesterday?

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Speaker 2: No, we I already knew that you know, going in

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Speaker 2: and the the the education minister. Yeah we did, we

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Speaker 2: did find that out, but but you know, it's just

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Speaker 2: the fact that we brought this information to highlight the

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Speaker 2: fact that, you know, safety was important in a school environment,

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Speaker 2: and as you say, crime is on the forefront of

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Speaker 2: everyone's minds across the territory. So I don't know why

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Speaker 2: she was surprised. And then you know, to me, Katie,

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Speaker 2: it just says everything you need to know about this government.

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Speaker 2: When they get our important questions, they'll shut you down,

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Speaker 2: so hurling insults, she called me pathetics, and then we

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Speaker 2: had the chair actually shut down the meeting for a

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Speaker 2: few minutes so you know the minister could get herself

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Speaker 2: together and want to carry on.

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Speaker 3: It was extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: Look in the times that I've been watching estimates, which

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Speaker 1: is certainly over the last ten to fifteen years, not

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Speaker 1: I can't recall something.

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Speaker 3: Like that happening to that degree.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty extraordinary scenes what we'd seen,

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Speaker 1: But it was also I thought, you know, out of

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Speaker 1: character from what I would expect from the Education Minister,

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Speaker 1: who usually does keep pretty level headed. Joe, I guess

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Speaker 1: from to play devil's advocate here, you know, she is

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Speaker 1: suggesting that you should have been asking more questions about

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Speaker 1: the education portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Rather than crime.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming that you did ask plenty of

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Speaker 1: other questions about education as well.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Katie, we asked, you know, lots of things about education.

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Speaker 2: About attendance. You know, we have the lowest attend that's

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Speaker 2: in the country. Not one of our regions is up

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Speaker 2: to the benchmark of the national average, which is just appalling.

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Speaker 2: So you know, in actual fact, you know, in the

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Speaker 2: region of the Barkley, you know, their attendance rate was

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Speaker 2: extremely low. So there's been an education strategy, an engagement strategy,

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Speaker 2: which has cost ten million dollars, and this is to

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Speaker 2: engage students to get to school. And when we still

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Speaker 2: cannot come up to the national average, that's just appalling

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Speaker 2: to know. You know, ten million dollars has been sent

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Speaker 2: a spense and we can't we can't even get engagement.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've got I mean, fundamentally, we have to get

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Speaker 1: it right. We've got to get it right when it

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Speaker 1: comes to education. We've got to make sure that kids

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Speaker 1: are attending school. Was there any information gleaned with respect

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Speaker 1: to kids not attending school who are committing crimes because

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Speaker 1: you've experienced that in Catherine recently.

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Speaker 2: We have. And when I asked the minister that, she

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Speaker 2: said if those crimes happen outside the school, that is

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Speaker 2: a police matter. She didn't. She just shut that down.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Joe, was there any update on the school counselors yesterday,

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Speaker 1: because that's been a real point of contention for a

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Speaker 1: lot of our listeners and a lot of you know,

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Speaker 1: we've spoken to two nt cogso and also to students

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Speaker 1: who are really concerned about changes to the way in

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Speaker 1: which those counselors are going to be operating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, So the minister said there was some misunderstanding

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Speaker 2: that wasn't actually going to happen where they are all

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Speaker 2: going to go to the Mitchell Street Center. Yet we

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Speaker 2: know that more than five hundred students signed a petition

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Speaker 2: launched by Catherina Senior College against this new model, and

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Speaker 2: the Treasurer didn't even respect that response that they've had.

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Speaker 2: All counselors are a vital part in a school environment,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that they if you don't have a

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Speaker 2: counselor in your school, you are not going to be

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Speaker 2: bringing up someone to then have those that counselor talked

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Speaker 2: to you over the phone or make an appointment to

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Speaker 2: see them. They need to be building relationships in schools

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Speaker 2: with students and so the minister. So maybe there was

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Speaker 2: a you know, miscommunication there, but I had it on

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Speaker 2: very good authority from you know, cog So. I spoke

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Speaker 2: to them about the school counselors and that was the

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Speaker 2: information that they had given me, as well as other

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Speaker 2: school council members that I speak to. So maybe that

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Speaker 2: was a backslip on the government.

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Speaker 1: Y Look, we've been given the same mail as well.

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Speaker 1: We've been we've been told the same thing here at

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Speaker 1: the radio station as well. We'd had both Cogso and

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Speaker 1: indeed the school on to talk about that.

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Speaker 3: So it was a very real concern from them.

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Speaker 1: Whether that was perceived or reality, it was absolute concern

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Speaker 1: for them. But also I think we've got a bit

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Speaker 1: of a situation right across the territory where it doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem that we've got enough of those school counselors.

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Speaker 2: Joe no correct, and there is a big drive they

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Speaker 2: said that the minister said to get more school counselors.

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Speaker 2: So you know, we just hope that that actually does happen.

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Speaker 2: Because all schools need to have a school counselor in them.

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Speaker 1: Joe, and we are fast running out of time. We

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Speaker 1: are going to have to wrap up. I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: you're keen to get back and keep an eye on

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Speaker 1: what's going on during budget estimates.

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Speaker 3: We'll try our best to make sure that we do

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Speaker 3: during the ad breaks as well. Thank you so much

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Speaker 3: for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: So worries Katie. Thank you, and thank you Listen.

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Speaker 3: Thank you,