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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Willem Woody. Hannah Ferguson, founder of Cheek Media,

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Speaker 1: is back here on Will and Woody from the Big

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Speaker 1: Small Talk podcast. Welcome back, Hanna, So good to have

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Speaker 1: you here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for the intro.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: That was great music.

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Speaker 3: And we're playing the law and auto music because you're

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Speaker 3: on to talk about I'm gonna say this is the

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Speaker 3: legal case definitely of the year. It's the law case

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Speaker 3: that is on everyone's lips right now. It's Blake Lively v.

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Speaker 4: Justin Baldoni.

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Speaker 3: They are obviously stars of the film It Ends with Us,

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Speaker 3: which is based on the Collen Hoover novel, which is

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Speaker 3: a movie about domestic violence. But Hannah, this is where

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna throw to you, because I think this all

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Speaker 3: kicked off December last year.

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Speaker 4: Blake Lively made the first move. What happened?

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Speaker 2: So and actually I'd go back to August because we

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Speaker 2: knew that, I know, let's go even for the time.

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Speaker 2: We knew and the film came out that there was

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Speaker 2: something going on with the cast, right, and this is

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Speaker 2: a massive complex case, but to like dilute it down

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Speaker 2: to its simplest, there was a huge social media kind

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Speaker 2: of troll campaign against Blake Lively where people were saying

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Speaker 2: her marketing of that movie, which is a very sensitive topic,

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Speaker 2: was in was kind of not trauma informed. People were

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Speaker 2: saying she's coming out saying, grab your girlfriend's where your florals?

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Speaker 2: It's like a rom com. Was very much the framing.

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Speaker 2: She brought out a hair care line. So much is happening,

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Speaker 2: But people for some reason attacked Blake but like Justin

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Speaker 2: Baldoni even though the cast and Blake wouldn't be seen

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Speaker 2: with him, So we knew something was wrong, and there

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Speaker 2: was this rift apparently that TMZ reported because of creative differences.

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Speaker 2: Fast forward to December, we still don't know what's happened,

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Speaker 2: and then Blake Lively files a lawsuit against Justin Baldoni

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Speaker 2: and his producer and co owner of the studio's Wayfarer

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Speaker 2: about sexual harassment and sexual misconduct on set and just

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Speaker 2: major issues she experienced an employee, which include things like

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Speaker 2: them showing her videos of their Jamie Heath's wife naked

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Speaker 2: of Justin Baldoni, disclosing sexual accident consent to her, the

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Speaker 2: Justin Baldoni engaging in like unwanted kissing scenes, and overly

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Speaker 2: doing the intimacy on set and Blake basically this lawsuit,

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Speaker 2: and then the next day The New York Times reports

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Speaker 2: on this that she felt uncomfortable and didn't want them

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Speaker 2: to retaliate. Then the next steps, as a lot of

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Speaker 2: people know in the course of the lead up to Christmas,

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Speaker 2: basically is Justin Balderney then files a lawsuit against The

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Speaker 2: New York Times basically alleging defamation and counter sues Blake

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Speaker 2: Lively and Ryan Reynolds, saying that Blake Lively strong arm

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Speaker 2: the creative decisions on the project. There are so many

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Speaker 2: allegations with this, but he's basically saying it's defamatory what

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Speaker 2: they're saying. They've taken it out of context, and I

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Speaker 2: can justify a bunch of these behaviors. So now we're

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Speaker 2: just waiting to see what emerges from these suits.

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Speaker 1: So is he disputing like each of her claims specifically.

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Speaker 2: See a lot of them. He is. So he's saying

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Speaker 2: things like she says she was fat shamed on the

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Speaker 2: set because he asked how much she weighed, And he's saying,

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Speaker 2: I have back injuries and I was asking my personal

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Speaker 2: trainer how much I need to lift to be able

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Speaker 2: to carry her in the film, So he's actually coming

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Speaker 2: back with a lot of responses to things like that.

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Speaker 1: So he is in a defamation in case, you've got

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Speaker 1: to prove the truth, right, So he's probably need to

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Speaker 1: go through a bit of a checklist there.

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Speaker 4: What else has she claimed?

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Speaker 1: Specifically that he's.

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Speaker 2: Also claiming that they have basically lodged a massive social

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Speaker 2: media campaign against her. He also hired Johnny Depp's PR

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Speaker 2: team to help him crisis manage his way through what's

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Speaker 2: happened in the last few months, which raised a lot

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Speaker 2: of flags at the time in mid last year. But

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Speaker 2: there's also this entire claim in the texts that have

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Speaker 2: been alleged in the New York Times and through Blake's

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Speaker 2: complaint that basically they've kind of conducted and ensured this

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Speaker 2: social media campaign went against her. But really what's happened

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Speaker 2: is they've planted a few stories and women and the

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Speaker 2: Internet at large has been so willing to hate another

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Speaker 2: woman they've taken it and run with it. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of it is the PR campaign Here's team ran,

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Speaker 2: which is being alleged. A lot of it is just

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Speaker 2: that these texts that are shared of things like we

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Speaker 2: can Bury Anyone was one of the texts between Justin

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Speaker 2: and his PR team. There's lots of text message saying

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Speaker 2: it it's actually sad how willing the internet is to

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Speaker 2: hate a woman like this is really the conversation that's going.

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Speaker 2: So there's there's a conversation about the smear campaign against

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Speaker 2: Blake Lively, and then there's a separate conversation about the

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Speaker 2: conduct on set, you know, the lack of consent, the

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Speaker 2: creative differences. There's just a heap of legal stuff happening

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Speaker 2: at the same time, which is why there's so much

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Speaker 2: noise about this case.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned Ryan Reynolds as well, because it's interesting that

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Speaker 3: he is now very much involved.

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Speaker 1: A fasting, which fascinates me. So he's the husband of

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Speaker 1: men can do no wrong as far as and that

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Speaker 1: is so thank.

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Speaker 2: You for pointing that out. Thank god someone did.

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Speaker 4: That is always the stance of this radio show. And

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Speaker 4: on that note, we are going to go to a song.

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Speaker 1: We've got more with Hanna Ferguson right up next, founder

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Speaker 1: of check Media. If you want to hear more about this,

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Speaker 1: she has put together an epic podcast delving into all

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Speaker 1: of the detail. On her podcast, A Big Small Talk

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Speaker 1: so you can go and listen to that in your

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Speaker 1: own time. But we've got more with Hannah right up

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Speaker 1: next year on William, what do you hope you haveing

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Speaker 1: a great day? Kiss hate swilling Moody. I hope you're

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Speaker 1: having a great day. We're all just getting up to speed.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm getting up to speed finally, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know how I do this, but I know nothing about

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Speaker 1: what you're talking about.

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Speaker 4: Hannah Ferguson here, founder of.

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Speaker 1: Cheek Media and co host of Big Small Talk, talking

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Speaker 1: about the biggest story in the world at the moment,

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Speaker 1: which is Blake Lively. Let me get this guy's name right,

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Speaker 1: Justin Baldoni? Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Okay?

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Speaker 1: So in a sentence, Hannah, get us up to speak

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Speaker 1: one sentence. One sentence.

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Speaker 4: You can have a big sentence, but go for it.

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Speaker 2: Blake Lively attacked by all of social media last year

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Speaker 2: over the vends with US Marketing for the marketing of

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Speaker 2: the film. Then Justin Baldoni, she sues him and says

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Speaker 2: all of this unwanted sexual misconductor code on set and

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Speaker 2: a social media smear campaign has been raised against her

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Speaker 2: by him. He's countersuing her. Ryan reynolds her husband and

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Speaker 2: The New York Times for defamation in print. That's where

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Speaker 2: we're at.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, well, and by the way, he's suing them

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Speaker 1: for four hundred million US dollars, which you know, given

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Speaker 1: the way that the Aussie dollar is going, like that's

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Speaker 1: that's seven hundred million, let's say Australian dollars.

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Speaker 4: That is.

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Speaker 1: I was in to stink about this before because legal mind, like,

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Speaker 1: you need to prove where the damage is. You can't

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Speaker 1: just say to someone I'm suing you, I want half

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Speaker 1: a billion. You need to be able to show, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: the reason I'm suing you for four hundred million is

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Speaker 1: because my career is definitely worth four hundred million and

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Speaker 1: that's what I'm going to lose as a result of

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Speaker 1: what you're doing to me this. I didn't even know

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Speaker 1: who this dude was Baldoni.

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Speaker 4: He directed the film, he produced the film. He's in

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Speaker 4: Jane the half a billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: But I think, Hannah, you can I mean, I listened

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Speaker 3: to your podcast, amazing podcast, by the way, but you

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Speaker 3: said that his career has already been impacted somewhat. There

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Speaker 3: are things that have happened to Justin Baldoni since all

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Speaker 3: this stuff.

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Speaker 2: He's lost an Ally to Women award, it's been.

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Speaker 1: Taken from him because he stripped.

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Speaker 2: I think it's actually uprageous that in December they gave

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Speaker 2: it to me in the first place, even though it

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Speaker 2: was quite obvious something had gone down on the set.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think that's four hundred million dollars in

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Speaker 2: of itself, but we both I think we can all

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Speaker 2: agree that the four hundred million USD number is a headline,

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Speaker 2: that it's not actual, Like that is a ridiculous amount.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So can I just pick up what you've what

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Speaker 3: you've mentioned there, because this guy has publicly always put

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Speaker 3: himself out there as being a feminist and very against

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Speaker 3: any bad treatment of women, Like he has really put

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Speaker 3: his hand up as like a flag bearer there. And

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Speaker 3: with that in mind, So Ryan Reynolds involvement. He's the

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Speaker 3: husband of Blake Lively. He has a movie Deadpool v. Wolverine, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: coming out similar time to this film.

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Speaker 4: Right, loved it.

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Speaker 1: Over did the action scenes.

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Speaker 4: If we had to be honest, always you know the

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Speaker 4: character nice Pool.

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Speaker 1: He's got the man but him playing himself and he's

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Speaker 1: overly nice version.

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Speaker 3: But also the more you get to know he's actually

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Speaker 3: a really nasty person. Yeah, okay, there's a claim there

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Speaker 3: that that whole character is based on Justin Baldoni.

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Speaker 2: Who are you? I'm Deadpool and I guess you're a

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Speaker 2: Deadpool too.

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Speaker 4: But in here everybody calls me nice Pool.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, where do you see Ladypool? She is gorgeous.

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Speaker 2: She just had a baby too, And I can't even tell.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you're supposed to say that that's okay

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Speaker 2: identify as a feminist.

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Speaker 3: So this whole character Hannah, is a big swipe at

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Speaker 3: Justin Baldoni.

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Speaker 2: That's what they're arguing, and Jospin Baldoni has basically written

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Speaker 2: an open letter to say, preserve the documentation related to

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Speaker 2: this character, because I believe it's been based on me,

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Speaker 2: and it's included in the suit this information. So he

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Speaker 2: has a belief that that's the case. And I think

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Speaker 2: one of the interesting parts about this that my co

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Speaker 2: host pointed out to me in our podcast yesterday is

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Speaker 2: that that character in the credits of Deadpool is sort

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Speaker 2: of credited as being played by Gordon Reynolds, not even

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Speaker 2: though it's Ryan Reynolds in it ends with us Blake

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Speaker 2: Lively ensured that there was credit given in the thanks

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Speaker 2: section to a Gordon Reynolds. Wow. Wow, right, the gossip

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Speaker 2: is strong.

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Speaker 4: There is some confusion there.

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Speaker 3: There's so much information coming out that a lot of

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Speaker 3: people are kind of looking at it being like, I

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Speaker 3: don't even know who I like anymore. I don't know

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Speaker 3: whose side I'm on. So from your investigation, are you

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Speaker 3: on a particular side?

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Speaker 2: You know what? I think? I think that our willingness

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Speaker 2: to go, I must pick, I must choose is such

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Speaker 2: a like response to social media and like when we're

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Speaker 2: fed so much propaganda. I think one of the hard

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Speaker 2: parts about this is, you know, August last year, when

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Speaker 2: this campaign against Blake Lively went just viral and everyone

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Speaker 2: was piling on it, now feels hard for people to

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Speaker 2: switch and say, oh, with this new information, I actually

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Speaker 2: can understand that I did the wrong thing by feeding

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Speaker 2: into it. So I think everyone needs to come back

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Speaker 2: and say, when there's like complicated legal cases like this,

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Speaker 2: it's okay to say I don't know and I probably

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Speaker 2: made a wrong assumption, and with this new information, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to sit back and go let's just see what

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Speaker 2: unfolds our willingness to go I'm picking team whatever when

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Speaker 2: the legal case is unfolding, so unfair.

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Speaker 1: Reach Out one hundred respect very worthwhile because obviously this

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Speaker 1: whole thing kicks off in a movie about domestic brands.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the irony of that is palpable and probably

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Speaker 1: very confronting for a lot of people.

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Speaker 4: Hannah, thank you so much for joining us. It's been great.

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Speaker 1: You've been awesome as always, big small talk, go and

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Speaker 1: get it where you get your podcasts, and going listen

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Speaker 1: to that podcast. I've got a whole lot more detail

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Speaker 1: from someone who talks very well at Hi