1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: Now the Australian newspaper has published an investigation into the

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,200
Speaker 1: Northern Territories school system, with shocking figures revealing at least

3
00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:12,600
Speaker 1: one in five schools is underfunded and some remote communities

4
00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,079
Speaker 1: only have a qualified teacher present twice a week, some

5
00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,560
Speaker 1: just once a month. Now joining me on the line

6
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,360
Speaker 1: is one of the Australian's reporters behind the NT Schools

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: in Crisis investigative series, Kylie Stephenson. Good morning, Kylie, Good morning, Katie,

8
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,920
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Kylie,

9
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,559
Speaker 1: the investigations revealed at least one in five schools in

10
00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,880
Speaker 1: the Northern Territory are underfunded, offering an education so under

11
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: resource that most failed to meet minimum standards of literacy

12
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 1: and numeracy and in some cases not even providing full

13
00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:49,160
Speaker 1: time teachers.

14
00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:51,159
Speaker 2: How often are.

15
00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,040
Speaker 1: We in a situation where there aren't full time teachers?

16
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 2: That is happening pretty regularly in what are called homeland

17
00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,200
Speaker 2: learning centers. Homeland learning centers aren't schools. They're classified as

18
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,880
Speaker 2: a classroom of a bigger hub school and they're in

19
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 2: quite remote areas, you know, sort of. If we're talking

20
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 2: about Man and Greta, for example, Man and Greta School

21
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 2: managers thirteen homeland learning centers and some of them are

22
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 2: thirty minutes drive away, some of them are a couple

23
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,119
Speaker 2: of hours drive away, and those are the ones who

24
00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 2: are really bearing the brunt of this lack of funding.

25
00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,120
Speaker 2: It's one in five students who are underfunded, is the estimate.

26
00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,600
Speaker 2: And yeah, these kids are really struggling out there. They

27
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 2: have a local teacher that will work with them during

28
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 2: the week, but that teacher is not a registered teacher.

29
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,280
Speaker 2: They don't have the same duty of care. And they

30
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:42,679
Speaker 2: are calling the teachers as well as the students and

31
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 2: parents for full time education to be made available, which

32
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 2: seems like a very reasonable thing to be asking for.

33
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,160
Speaker 1: And Colie, what kind of impact then is you know

34
00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 1: is true and seeing all kids actually attending school then

35
00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 1: having as well.

36
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, is a really big issue. I'm sure we're all

37
00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 2: aware of that in Northern Territory, particularly in remote areas.

38
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 2: But what is happening then is that schools are funded

39
00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 2: the Northern Territory funding It comes from the federal government

40
00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,400
Speaker 2: and the Northern Territory government all put in funding and

41
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,519
Speaker 2: then it's run through this model that's based on attendance

42
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,760
Speaker 2: and then it's distributed to schools according to that, and

43
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 2: what that's doing is really targeting those schools that are

44
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,880
Speaker 2: struggling to engage their kids. It's penalizing them further and

45
00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,560
Speaker 2: therefore reducing the possibility of them re engaging those kids

46
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:33,680
Speaker 2: who aren't attending school.

47
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,799
Speaker 1: Now, I know that's I think it's something that we've

48
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: spoken to the Education Minister about before, and I thought

49
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 1: that they'd made a commitment to review that funding model.

50
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: Is that correct.

51
00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, a review came out last year. It was pretty damning,

52
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 2: and the anti government did say that they will roll

53
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 2: back what they call effective enrollment attendance based funding, effectively

54
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,359
Speaker 2: is what it is. They have given a time frame

55
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 2: of two to five years to roll that back, but

56
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,280
Speaker 2: educators are saying that that's just not good enough. In

57
00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 2: those years, these children are just going to keep missing

58
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 2: out on education and effectively not educating almost a whole

59
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:11,680
Speaker 2: generation of children.

60
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,280
Speaker 1: Now, some of these numbers are really very shocking and

61
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,119
Speaker 1: pretty surprising, I guess to some parents like myself. We've

62
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,160
Speaker 1: got kids that are receiving a great education in Northern

63
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,839
Speaker 1: Territory schools, but fifty eight percent of all students and

64
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: eighty five percent of Indigenous students falling below minimum literacy

65
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: and numeracy standards. Where are the figures coming from.

66
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the recent nat plan results that were that

67
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,960
Speaker 2: came out just last month, I think, and they are

68
00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 2: pretty shocking. And I guess what we're saying is, you know,

69
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 2: not to land blame on teachers or parents or students.

70
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 2: What is happening is funding is not being given to

71
00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:53,720
Speaker 2: schools at the appropriate level that they can educate children

72
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,200
Speaker 2: to the minimum standards. So just from the very beginning,

73
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,560
Speaker 2: we only fund eighty percent of what's required to deliver

74
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 2: minimum standards of education to students. So that's a two

75
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,560
Speaker 2: hundred and fourteen point eight million annual short floor shortfall

76
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 2: in the Northern Territory.

77
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 1: And Kylie, is that is that a federal shortfall or

78
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 1: is it the way in which then we're you know,

79
00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 1: that we're dishing it out here in the territory.

80
00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,799
Speaker 2: So that shortfall is I understand, it's the anti government.

81
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,280
Speaker 2: So the federal government chips in twenty percent and then

82
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 2: the states are required to chip in the rest the

83
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,279
Speaker 2: eighty percent, but the Northern Territory government is only chipping

84
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,720
Speaker 2: in sixty and then it's in addition to that shortfall,

85
00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,160
Speaker 2: so we're all already down to eighty percent of what

86
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,160
Speaker 2: is required for the minimum standards of education, and then

87
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 2: on top of that, it's run through an attendance based model,

88
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,120
Speaker 2: which means that particularly schools in disadvantaged areas are missing

89
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,480
Speaker 2: out this.

90
00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: It has been a very extensive investigation from what I

91
00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 1: can gather by the Australian newspaper, and it is going

92
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,600
Speaker 1: across the whole week, really taking a deep dive into

93
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,280
Speaker 1: education in the Northern Territory. What has been the response

94
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,039
Speaker 1: from the territory's Minister for Education.

95
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,039
Speaker 2: We attempted to set up an interview with her a

96
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,120
Speaker 2: few weeks ago, that wasn't able to happen. We have

97
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,440
Speaker 2: sent through questions, We've received some answers, not very many.

98
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 2: We do have a lot more questions, so we will

99
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 2: be pursuing that this week.

100
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,240
Speaker 1: What are some of the other key findings throughout the week.

101
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,400
Speaker 1: I understand that even today there is going to be

102
00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 1: some further reporting in this space.

103
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so today we're talking about some of those attendants

104
00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 2: and nap plan things and what we really wanted to

105
00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,680
Speaker 2: do was I think that there's been a lot of

106
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,280
Speaker 2: media coverage of particularly crime in Alice Springs, and what

107
00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 2: we wanted to do was look at how those two

108
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 2: issues relate and also look at how those sort of

109
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,040
Speaker 2: attendance is key in engaging kids so that they're not

110
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,840
Speaker 2: out on the streets and things like that, but then

111
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,360
Speaker 2: looking at some of the barriers to attendance as well,

112
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,840
Speaker 2: which is things like food security, homelessness, domestic violence. There

113
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 2: are a lot of issues that keep kids from school.

114
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,440
Speaker 2: So I think it's very easy for us to sit

115
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,840
Speaker 2: back here in Darlin and say, you know, get your

116
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:13,880
Speaker 2: kids to school. But what some of these people are

117
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 2: facing is really difficult, and I think it just cuts

118
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,400
Speaker 2: across kind of all areas and departments of the Northern Territory.

119
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 1: It's something we've spoken about like quite a bit in

120
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 1: terms of kids not being at school. We certainly get

121
00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 1: people contact us here at the show, you know, at

122
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 1: least every week saying Katie, you know there's people or

123
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: there's young kids at Casuarina or walking the streets rather

124
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,000
Speaker 1: than attending school. But then on the flip side, we've

125
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: also spoken to people like Gavin Morris, the principle of

126
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,560
Speaker 1: your Pernia School, who have said that they've increased those

127
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,560
Speaker 1: attendance rates. So I think it's a really interesting facet

128
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,520
Speaker 1: to look into and a very important one.

129
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we spoke to Gavin he Is in that

130
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 2: report in Today's Australian. So I think what is happening

131
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: schools like Kiperinya independent schools, so they have access to

132
00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,240
Speaker 2: more funding than the Northern Territory government schools because they're

133
00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 2: not being run through that attendance based model. And what

134
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,720
Speaker 2: that means is that they can run programs that really

135
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,000
Speaker 2: engage their kids, that make them want to come to school.

136
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 2: And you know, some of the things we were looking

137
00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 2: at when we were out in other parts of the

138
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 2: Northern Territory were communities who'd had to cut a music

139
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 2: program in their school when there are really well known

140
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,200
Speaker 2: musicians from that area at school that it had to

141
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,200
Speaker 2: cut their pe program because they just don't have the

142
00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,360
Speaker 2: funding and they have to make decisions well and that

143
00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 2: they can afford.

144
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 1: And things like that actually draw the kids to school,

145
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, whether you like it or not, if there's

146
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 1: things like sport and a music that they love and

147
00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: it's part of their education, then it actually gets you

148
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 1: to school.

149
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. Like I think back to when I was

150
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 2: at school and now in particular days I loved English,

151
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 2: I would turn up on English day, drama day I

152
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 2: was out of there. If I could somehow, you know,

153
00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 2: scam a day off stick, I wouldn't be turning up

154
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,840
Speaker 2: when drama was on. But yeah, I think he would.

155
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: He listens to the show and he messaged through and said, Katie,

156
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: you may ask the Australian Reporter have they looked in

157
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,840
Speaker 1: depth as to why attendance at many remote schools are

158
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: so well below fifty percent? And isn't that the main

159
00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,440
Speaker 1: reason why literacy and numeracy levels are so low? How's

160
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 1: that attendance failure going to be fixed? And I know,

161
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 1: you know, obviously you're not one of those decision makers

162
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: determining how that's going to be fixed Skyly, but what

163
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,360
Speaker 1: you know, what has that investigation that you've done and

164
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,360
Speaker 1: some of the work that you've done, what has it

165
00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: sort of shown in that area?

166
00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,080
Speaker 2: Well, just what we were speaking about. Actually, thanks for that, Jerry.

167
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,760
Speaker 2: It's just about funding schools to the level that they

168
00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 2: can afford to do things that are engaging their students.

169
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,440
Speaker 2: I think that's where we're missing out. But definitely in

170
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 2: the report today we are covering a lot of those

171
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 2: issues that barriers people attending school.

172
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I really appreciate you having a chat with

173
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,640
Speaker 1: us this morning, and I'll be fascinated to continue reading

174
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:00,920
Speaker 1: the articles in this space. I think it is it's

175
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 1: great work and it is great for us to see

176
00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,120
Speaker 1: much more in depth some of those issues that we've

177
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,160
Speaker 1: got and how we can work through them. So, Kylie,

178
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you having a chat with us this morning.

179
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,440
Speaker 1: Reporter for the Australian newspaper, and of course people can

180
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 1: read more on this week long investigation on NT schools

181
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: at the Australian dot com dot au. Thank you so

182
00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:23,360
Speaker 1: much for your time.

183
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,520
Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you