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Speaker 1: Now. The country Liberal Party yesterday announced a suite of

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Speaker 1: bail reforms which will be known as Declan's Law. The

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Speaker 1: opposition leader made the announcement saying that it will help

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Speaker 1: prevent another senseless death like that of Declan Lavity. Now

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Speaker 1: Samara Lavity, the mother of Declan, said that she believed

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Speaker 1: her son could still be alive had there been earlier

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Speaker 1: interventions in the life of his killer. Now, Samara Lavity

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Speaker 1: joins me in the studio right now. Good morning, Samara,

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Speaker 1: Good morning Katie. Thanks so much for your time this morning. Samara,

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Speaker 1: how did it all sort of unfold yesterday in terms

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Speaker 1: of getting to the point where you were hearing that

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Speaker 1: one of the political parties was going to make this announcement.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's been a really long journey. It was something

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Speaker 2: that I never set out to do. When he died

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Speaker 2: for us, it was okay, this is our new normal.

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Speaker 2: And then the petition took on a life of its

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Speaker 2: own and I could see that people want to change

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Speaker 2: and people were looking to me to help make that change.

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Speaker 2: And it's just become so strongly for me about making

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Speaker 2: sure that people who are out there and committing an

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Speaker 2: offense that could potentially change the lives of other peoples

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Speaker 2: and other families don't have the opportunity to go out

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Speaker 2: and do it a second time.

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Speaker 1: Now in terms of you know what the COORP announced yesterday,

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Speaker 1: do you think that those changes, or the legislative changes

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Speaker 1: that they are proposing, do you think that they're going

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Speaker 1: to have the impact that you hope that they will.

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Speaker 2: I hope they do. It's all a little bit subjective

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Speaker 2: at the moment, because until we get it in we're

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Speaker 2: not really going to know how it plays out. But

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's about protecting the

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Speaker 2: community and not protecting the right of the offender. And

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Speaker 2: as like I think we've seen time and time again.

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Speaker 2: In our case, mister Karenua was out on bail for

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Speaker 2: a very serious offense, and had he not been out

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Speaker 2: on bail, then I would still have Declan. And that's

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Speaker 2: the reality of committee. Even a first violent offense. He

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Speaker 2: was allowed out even though they knew that his offense

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Speaker 2: was very very serious.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: Declan died, and he died in a really horrible, horrific way,

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Speaker 2: and I just don't want anyone to ever have to

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Speaker 2: go through that again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I can't even begin to imagine how you feel,

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Speaker 1: and I think that for everybody listening, they feel exactly

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Speaker 1: the same way. And if there are changes that are

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Speaker 1: able to prevent another family losing a loved one in

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Speaker 1: the way that you've lost your boy, I think that

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Speaker 1: you know, most would would agree with those changes happening.

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Speaker 1: I know that I've seen some reporting over the last

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Speaker 1: sort of twenty four hours where some of Ray's concerns

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Speaker 1: that presumption against bail for all serious violent offenses might

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Speaker 1: mean that, you know, people that potentially shouldn't be spending

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Speaker 1: time in jail are going to jail. I mean, what

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Speaker 1: do you say to people that are sort of making

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Speaker 1: comments like.

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Speaker 2: That, Sorry, it's perspective. You know, there's a very big

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Speaker 2: difference between having a punch up in Mitchell Street, which

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Speaker 2: was referenced yesterday, compared to so the offense that Karen

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Speaker 2: Eua was out on was he had knocked someone out

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Speaker 2: and then had stabbed him multiple times in the upper

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Speaker 2: body and back. I believe he's to me, that's a

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Speaker 2: very serious violent offense because this guy could have died,

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Speaker 2: thankfully he didn't, but that shows a pattern of it

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Speaker 2: was unprovoked, It was on an innocent and defenseless person

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Speaker 2: and it was very, very serious.

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Speaker 1: So it just.

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Speaker 2: Becomes about protecting the community.

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Speaker 1: Samara. One of the things that was being reported yesterday

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Speaker 1: is that you said that you were struck by how

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Speaker 1: intelligent and articulate Declan's murderer was and previous behavior had

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Speaker 1: shown that at no point that that behavior was checked

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Speaker 1: to guide him on a better path and use that

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Speaker 1: intelligence for something that could have made him an amazing person.

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Speaker 1: How do you think that these changes could have an

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Speaker 1: impact in a different way.

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Speaker 2: I think that it could potentially catch those kids. And

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Speaker 2: I did find Keith extremely intelligent, very articulate, is a

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Speaker 2: very switched on young man. And I mean, I can't

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Speaker 2: definitively say that nobody has checked his pal at all.

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Speaker 2: But if more interventions could have been made when he

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Speaker 2: started going off the rails, then he wouldn't be in

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Speaker 2: this position. We wouldn't be in this position because it's

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Speaker 2: not just us, it's his family. They have to live

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Speaker 2: with this as much as we do. And whatever Hope's

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Speaker 2: dreams that Keith had for his life, they're now gone

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Speaker 2: as well, and it just becomes a ripple effect. And

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Speaker 2: I just it's just sad that whilst Declan died. Keith

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Speaker 2: has also lost his life. Would an intervention have made

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Speaker 2: any difference. I don't know, but it could have.

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Speaker 1: It's a really brave thing for you to sort of say,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think it might surprise some people

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Speaker 1: you're making those comments.

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Speaker 2: I've had a few people tell me I'm strange, noo.

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Speaker 1: I think it's more, you know, like that you're seeing

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Speaker 1: it from like a real mum perspective on both sides,

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Speaker 1: which like, that's how that's my interpretation of it. I

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Speaker 1: could be wrong.

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Speaker 2: I looked at him, and I listened to what he

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Speaker 2: had to say and how he was saying it, and

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Speaker 2: he had so much potential to be able to take

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Speaker 2: the intelligence that he clearly has and make something good

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Speaker 2: of it and had I mean again, it's all subjective,

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Speaker 2: because if he had been kept in bail on bail

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Speaker 2: at that point in time, then maybe the interventions that

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Speaker 2: could have been put into place in while he was

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Speaker 2: on remand or the sentence that he received for that

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Speaker 2: that previous stabbing was two years with one year suspended.

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Speaker 2: I believe in that period of time in jail, that

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Speaker 2: one year, maybe he could have taken up a program

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Speaker 2: or two and found he is, you know, what he

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Speaker 2: wanted to do with his life and gone, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is what I want to do rather than just be

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Speaker 2: out and being a troublemaker.

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Speaker 1: Tell me in terms of, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 1: these changes and what the COLP has announced, did you

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Speaker 1: have any discussions or did anybody from the labor parties

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Speaker 1: sort of seek, you know, seek to meet with you

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Speaker 1: and talk about what might be able to be done differently.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, We've had many conversations, many emails, many backwards and

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Speaker 2: forwards to try and work out exactly what Declan's lawyership

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Speaker 2: in compass. I do have a raft of other things

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Speaker 2: that I would like see, but they don't fall into

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Speaker 2: the Declines law category. We've found some things on our

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Speaker 2: journey through this that we feel could be potentially done better,

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Speaker 2: and I will be pushing for those as well.

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Speaker 1: Is that from sort of a victims of crime perspective, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: very much. Yeah, we've had that raised with us before,

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Speaker 1: and I can't talk about the case too much the

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Speaker 1: other situation that's been raised with me, but it was

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Speaker 1: an incredibly devastating situation as well, where that little family's

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Speaker 1: life has been turned absolutely upside down. As yours has been,

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Speaker 1: and a real lack of support for those victims of

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Speaker 1: crime from their perspective, and certainly upon hearing some details

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Speaker 1: from that family, I would feel exactly you know, I'd

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Speaker 1: feel exactly the same. And I think that when a

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Speaker 1: family goes through the utter trauma that your family's gone through,

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Speaker 1: that that little family separately has gone through, there needs

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Speaker 1: to be support for people. Right. Oh.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we had a fairly good idea of how the

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Speaker 2: system works, or at least back in Queensland. I've been

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Speaker 2: a paramedic for over twenty years. I've given evidence in

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Speaker 2: murder trials, so I know how that all plays out.

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Speaker 2: My oldest brother is a senior duty officer and can

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Speaker 2: so we know how it sort of all plays out

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Speaker 2: from a police perspective. And even we found it hard

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Speaker 2: to navigate, and that's with the background of having been

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Speaker 2: through it in various different iterations ourselves. My biggest concern is,

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Speaker 2: you know, someone who comes in, maybe comes in from

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Speaker 2: on country, never been in this sort of environment before.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be overwhelming. If you know English is

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Speaker 2: not their first, second or third language, it's hugely overwhelming

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Speaker 2: and the ability for these people to I guess make

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Speaker 2: peap not make peace, but you know, can you know,

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Speaker 2: have that guidance through it through this journey is really

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Speaker 2: really important to me because I can see how easily

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Speaker 2: these these other people just because there is so much

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Speaker 2: that's going through the court system, and there's only so

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Speaker 2: much that as advocates and all the people who work

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Speaker 2: in that space can do because they underfunded, they're massively overworked,

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Speaker 2: and because of that, people are dropping through the cracks.

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Speaker 1: Yea, Samara, Look, I do want to ask you, and

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Speaker 1: I know, you know, I know some people out there

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Speaker 1: might be thinking this. I mean, is it a political

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Speaker 1: move for you to kind of get involved at a

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Speaker 1: luck to be, you know, with the CLP at this

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Speaker 1: point in time on their announcement about this law for

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Speaker 1: your son. I mean, I see it as a mum

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Speaker 1: who wants to make change myself, but I know others

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Speaker 1: might be thinking, you know, it's getting involved in politics

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Speaker 1: at a very political time. I mean, what would you

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Speaker 1: say to those people?

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Speaker 2: My basis is not political. I'm not anti labor, I'm

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Speaker 2: not pro CLP. I want change so that nobody else

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Speaker 2: has to go through this, and I will support whoever

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Speaker 2: can make that happen. I don't like that it has

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Speaker 2: become political, but it is what it is, and my

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Speaker 2: main goal is keeping Declan firmly in the forefront of

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Speaker 2: my mind and working as hard as I can with

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Speaker 2: whoever I can, to try and prevent this from happening again.

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Speaker 1: Samara, I always appreciate all the time that you give

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Speaker 1: to us on the show. Thank you very much for

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Speaker 1: joining me once again this morning, and look, for your sake,

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Speaker 1: I hope we're not talking again too soon. I know

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Speaker 1: you probably need to do more interviews with everybody than

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Speaker 1: what you really want, to be honest, but we appreciate

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Speaker 1: it and I think it's so very brave what you

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Speaker 1: do there things we do for our kids one hundred percent. Samara,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for having me