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Speaker 1: Yesterday we spoke at length about the Northern Territory government

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Speaker 1: in acting emergency measures across the Northern Territory's prisons and

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Speaker 1: police watch houses to address extraordinary risks posed by record overcrowding.

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Speaker 1: In a statement late on Saturday, the Department of Corrections

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Speaker 1: said that prisoner numbers across the Northern Territory had reached

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Speaker 1: two thousand, three hundred and seventy on Friday, following a

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Speaker 1: rapid and continuing.

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Speaker 2: Surge of inmate listeners.

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Speaker 3: Good to see you.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me, are you confident that things are under

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Speaker 1: control within the correctional centers and that we aren't going

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Speaker 1: to see mass rioting?

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I certainly hope we don't. What I know

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Speaker 4: is that our correction staff have been doing an exceptional

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Speaker 4: job in extremely difficult circumstances. It is not suitable to

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Speaker 4: have prisoners in watchhouses, It is not suitable to have

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Speaker 4: the number of prisoners in each cell that we have

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Speaker 4: to have. But because there's been no new infrastructure built,

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Speaker 4: we're in this awful situation. And I just want to

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Speaker 4: thank everyone for putting their shoulder to the wheel on this.

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Speaker 2: But in a couple of weeks time, once that.

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Speaker 4: New Youth Justice Facility opens, Katie, that will be the

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Speaker 4: start of relieving the pressure on the system.

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Speaker 3: So just talk us through.

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Speaker 1: That, because you and I spoke about this a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago and you said that it wasn't too far off.

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Speaker 3: Yes, from what I can gather.

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Speaker 1: Once that new youth center opens, you've then got the

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Speaker 1: youth from Alice Springs coming up to that center. You've

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Speaker 1: then got the female prisoners going into the youth facility

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Speaker 1: in Alice Springs, and you then free up the old

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Speaker 1: Dondale here in Darwin, where adult male prisoners will move into.

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Speaker 4: Correct how the exactly you've been doing your homework, Katie,

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Speaker 4: well done. Now that's exactly right, and you can see

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Speaker 4: how instantly it creates capacity. What it also does, moving

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Speaker 4: the women out of the male prison in Alice Springs

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Speaker 4: and into the Youth Justice Facility to be the new

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Speaker 4: women's prison means we have more male prison beds in

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Speaker 4: the male prison in Alice Springs, so it will all

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Speaker 4: flow on. I've had a fantastic and encouraging update from

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Speaker 4: the Police Commissioner this morning saying that yes, there are

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Speaker 4: still prisoners in watchhouses, but it's at a much more

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Speaker 4: manageable level, so police are much more comfortable in having

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Speaker 4: and just enough operational environment for them while supporting corrections

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Speaker 4: through this really tough time. So everyone's playing their part, Katie,

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Speaker 4: and it's certainly imperfect.

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Speaker 2: We've been really upfront about that.

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Speaker 4: But nine weeks into government, we've now got an infrastructure

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Speaker 4: plan that's going to deliver for the long term with

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Speaker 4: that extra thousand beds over the next couple of years,

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Speaker 4: and we're just getting on with the out the other side,

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Speaker 4: all right.

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of really pivotal points here. First

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Speaker 1: off is making sure that those correctional officers can actually

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Speaker 1: hang in.

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Speaker 3: There for that period of time. We know that, you

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Speaker 3: know from.

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Speaker 1: The modeling that we've heard certainly from the union, we

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Speaker 1: are understaffed. The union yesterday calling on some of the

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Speaker 1: middle management to get their boots on the ground and

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Speaker 1: help out on the floor. That's something that we'll asks

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Speaker 1: Commissioner about whether that's part of the plan. But it

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Speaker 1: does seem as though we've got a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: here where there's going to be an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: stress on correctional stuff and on those facilities while we

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Speaker 1: wait for the new youth justice system to come online,

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Speaker 1: and are you confident that everything can be held together

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Speaker 1: in that time.

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Speaker 4: Well, we're doing everything we can to make sure it does.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you're in a high risk environment. We're dealing

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Speaker 4: with volatile people, we're dealing with overcrowding, and we're dealing

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Speaker 4: with a whole range of things. And that's why our

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Speaker 4: corrections offices really are expert, best in class. It's why

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Speaker 4: we took Corrections and made it a standalone agency. They

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Speaker 4: need that autonomy and budget to be able to do

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Speaker 4: what they've got to do.

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Speaker 2: And it's unpleasant.

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Speaker 4: Everyone wishes we didn't have to have prisons, we didn't

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Speaker 4: have to have police. What we do it makes us

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Speaker 4: safe for territory and we've got an important long road

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Speaker 4: ahead of driving down crime. So it's just a hard situation,

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Speaker 4: but we're very confident in the plan once they use

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Speaker 4: justice facility opens.

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Speaker 3: We have got that.

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Speaker 1: Situation though, where there is the looming thresh of industrial action. Yes,

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Speaker 1: are you concerned that is going to happen? What is

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Speaker 1: your message for the correctional stuff this morning?

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Speaker 2: We're just thanking them.

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Speaker 4: We know this is an awful situation and it's been

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Speaker 4: coming for a really long time, I have to say,

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Speaker 4: And you'll have the Corrections commissioner on later. The vast

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Speaker 4: majority of corrections officers are just getting on with the job.

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Speaker 4: We respect those who might want to take industrial action,

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Speaker 4: and if it does, then that will see its course.

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Speaker 2: But we've got contingency plans in place.

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Speaker 4: Our police are ready to do whatever they need to do.

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Speaker 4: I hope it doesn't get to that, but if it does,

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Speaker 4: we're ready. And ultimately this should be the worst point

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Speaker 4: that we reach, because going forward things will be better,

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Speaker 4: all right.

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Speaker 1: So a Josh on the new Youth Detention Center two

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Speaker 1: weeks a side.

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Speaker 2: I believe so. But ask Matt Varley when you have

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Speaker 2: him on in a couple of minutes time. He should

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Speaker 2: know and believe you me, if we could open it yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Why hasn't this work happened sooner? Like to me?

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Speaker 1: I agree to me, it seemed like the Corrections commissioners

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Speaker 1: been ready to go on enacting some of these emergency

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Speaker 1: measures more quickly than the last couple of weeks. You know,

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Speaker 1: from what you can gather, why hasn't some of these

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Speaker 1: happened sooner?

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Speaker 4: Well, we had a corrections agency buried in the bottom

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Speaker 4: of Attorney General's Department. We had a minister who believed

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Speaker 4: jailing was failing. We had a government not wanting to

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Speaker 4: build that type of infrastructure because they were blinded by

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Speaker 4: their own ideology. I mean, it was just the blind

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Speaker 4: leading the blind, Katie. It was totally dysfunctional and incompetent.

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Speaker 4: In nine weeks we've come into government, met with the

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Speaker 4: Corrections Commissioners straight away said we need everything on the table.

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Speaker 4: We need a comprehensive plan for the future, not just

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Speaker 4: for now. I didn't want to plan just for this

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Speaker 4: year or next year, Katie. I said, this has got

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Speaker 4: to be if we spending territories money, it's got to

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Speaker 4: be spent properly. And we've come up with a fantastic

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Speaker 4: solution that empowers corrections. Yes we'll need more stuff, Yes

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Speaker 4: it's going to cost money, and that will all go

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Speaker 4: through the budget process. You know, we'll need to build

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Speaker 4: a new women's prison, the boot Camps, and that will

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Speaker 4: go through budget cabinet and in May next year, every

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Speaker 4: single Territorian will know the cost. There's transparency around it.

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Speaker 4: But right now it's a crisis and we're throwing everything

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Speaker 4: we've got at it.

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Speaker 1: Kanie, are you prepared to throw a figure at it

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Speaker 1: this morning?

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Speaker 4: I just can't because, for example, we have to do

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Speaker 4: the design work on the women's prison. You know, is

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Speaker 4: it going to be one hundred and fifty beds, two

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Speaker 4: hundred beds, three hundred beds. You know, it all comes

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Speaker 4: into question. The costs will reflect what we're doing. And

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Speaker 4: so as those plans are being put together by the

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Speaker 4: Corrections Commissioner while he's also managing this volatile situation on

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Speaker 4: a daily basis, we'll make sure as a government we

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Speaker 4: budget what is required to deliver good outcomes for Territorians

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Speaker 4: because community safety is our number one priority.

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Speaker 3: All right, Chief Minister, let's talk about that budget.

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Speaker 1: We know the under Treasurer open the books for Territorians

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Speaker 1: to see the state of the Northern Territory's budget and

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Speaker 1: economy yesterday to McManus has worn the territory faces significant

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Speaker 1: economic and financial headwinds now. The update outline the territory's

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Speaker 1: challenging financial situation, as well as an update on the

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Speaker 1: fiscal and economic outlook for the years ahead, including the

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Speaker 1: importance of boosting private sector investment to reduce reliance on

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Speaker 1: public spending. Chief Minister just how bad is the budget

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Speaker 1: position right now?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's really scary, which is why growing our economy

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Speaker 4: is so important.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 4: We took reducing crime, rebuilding the economy and restoring our

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Speaker 4: lifestyle to the election, and rebuilding the economy, schools for

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Speaker 4: our kids, and so we do not believe in austerity measures.

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Speaker 4: Now is not the time to be cutting the guts

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Speaker 4: out of infrastructure, budgets or programs and services. Now is

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Speaker 4: the time to say, how do we be a better

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Speaker 4: place to do business, a more attractive place to invest,

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Speaker 4: Which is why we're moving forward with our Office of

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Speaker 4: Territory Coordinator totally reforming how we support the delivery of

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Speaker 4: major and significant projects in the territory.

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Speaker 2: So we know dad is bad.

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Speaker 4: It threatens our ability to have services in the territory

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Speaker 4: and that is a huge risk to everyday people and

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Speaker 4: we cannot stomach that, which is why we must grow

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Speaker 4: the economy asap.

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Speaker 1: Look, I'll ask some more questions about the Territory Coordinator

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Speaker 1: in just a moment before we get there. Though, we

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Speaker 1: know that the delivery of you know, of private investment

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Speaker 1: and making sure that we can get things happening in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory has been long on the agenda for

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Speaker 1: the former Labor government, even for the former c.

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Speaker 3: Or P government.

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Speaker 1: How do you think you're going to get things moving

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Speaker 1: in a different way to what we've seen for the past,

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Speaker 1: let's say ten years.

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Speaker 4: Because we're not doing the same thing that everyone else

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Speaker 4: is doing. Katie and I want to make this really clear.

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Speaker 4: Change can be really hard for people, and I understand that,

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Speaker 4: but we have been given a job to deliver change

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Speaker 4: because what is happening at the moment is not working.

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Speaker 2: The territory is broken.

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Speaker 4: People are broken, the system is broken, and my job

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Speaker 4: is to fix that. We've been really clear that rebuilding

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Speaker 4: our economy is a huge part of making the territory

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Speaker 4: a better place to live, a safer place to live,

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Speaker 4: and so we must do things differently, which is why

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Speaker 4: our approach to regulatory frameworks, to processing applications, to our

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Speaker 4: delivery of payroll tax. For example, we've made the territory

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Speaker 4: the most competitive place in the country to run a

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Speaker 4: small business from a payroll tax perspective. Our home build

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Speaker 4: grants out the door, getting dozens and dozens of applications,

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Speaker 4: generating tens of millions of dollars for the construction sector.

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Speaker 4: These are the things that will move the dial, Katie.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm not here to deliver status quo. That's

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Speaker 4: not the job the community has given me, and it's

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Speaker 4: not one that I'm going to fall back into that

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Speaker 4: position because of a few noisy people who don't like

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Speaker 4: what we're doing.

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Speaker 1: We have got a situation though we need more staff

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Speaker 1: that is going to cost money.

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Speaker 3: You've then got the Health Department.

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Speaker 1: They're overspent by I believe two hundred eighty million dollars

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Speaker 1: last financial year. We've got all of this overspend happening.

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Speaker 1: You're saying that there's not going to be cuts, but

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Speaker 1: the public service has continued to grow despite the population

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Speaker 1: not growing over recent years. So I just sort of understand,

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Speaker 1: you know, where we're going to find some of those

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Speaker 1: savings measures when we've got all of these social issues

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Speaker 1: that continue to grow and we've got to sort those

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Speaker 1: out as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's complicated.

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Speaker 4: I think the under Treasurers said yesterday that we have

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Speaker 4: one hundred and thirty eight thousand Territorians in work out

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Speaker 4: of a population of two hundred and fifty odd thousand.

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Speaker 2: So it's it's tough.

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Speaker 4: It it rests on the shoulders of your listeners, Katie,

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Speaker 4: paying their taxes, getting out of bed every day, earning

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Speaker 4: a living for themselves and their family, and that's not

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Speaker 4: lost on me. We can't put more burden on the

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Speaker 4: everyday territorian to fix labour's eight year long mess. So

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Speaker 4: it's just a very fine balancing act of growing the economy,

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Speaker 4: of making sure we're spending properly on not having pet

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Speaker 4: projects and waste for spending. So absolutely, as we keep going,

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Speaker 4: and if we discover projects that don't add value to

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Speaker 4: the territory, they are nice to have, not a must have,

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Speaker 4: we'll be honest with territories and say that's not going ahead.

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Speaker 4: So it's a combination of lots of little things. But

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Speaker 4: at the end of the day, we can't have a

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Speaker 4: blanket austerity approach because people will continue to leave and

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Speaker 4: if we have less people, that vicious cycle will.

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Speaker 2: Go round and round, Katie.

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Speaker 3: Alright, Lea.

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Speaker 1: We know that concerns have been raised, as you touched

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Speaker 1: on a moment ago, by the Opposition about the role

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Speaker 1: of the Territory Coordinator after documents titled Territory Coordinator Consultation

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Speaker 1: Paper was released to some stakeholders last week. Now the

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Speaker 1: opposition claims that the role is going to have new powers,

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Speaker 1: including step in powers to undertake any assessment process and

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Speaker 1: make the final decision for that assessment, and exemption powers

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Speaker 1: to modify the application of an Act in relation to

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Speaker 1: a specific project. Chief Minister, is your government trying to

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Speaker 1: sidestep environmental laws.

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Speaker 2: What we're trying to do is make us more competitive.

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Speaker 4: We know that labor just passed law after law after law,

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Speaker 4: and it has just made the territory an impossible place

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Speaker 4: to invest, to grow a business, do business here, and

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Speaker 4: that's what pays the bills, that's what pays nurses, teachers

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Speaker 4: and cops. So what we're doing is having a news

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Speaker 4: that an approval means an approval, that they will be

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Speaker 4: supported through our regulatory frameworks, but also that we won't

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Speaker 4: allow for duplication in processes. If we think we can

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Speaker 4: do things better and faster, we will. A lot of

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Speaker 4: the Office of Territory Coordinator power is also designed as

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Speaker 4: a Karen and Stick model, Katie. We want the public

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Speaker 4: service to take more control over what they have, to

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Speaker 4: process what they're doing and have greater accountability. So we

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Speaker 4: hope really that the Territory Coordinator won't have to use

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Speaker 4: many of these powers, but they're there in case we

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Speaker 4: need it, and it sends a very clear message to

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Speaker 4: decision makers to get on with the job.

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Speaker 1: So let me just put it really like, if let's

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Speaker 1: say there's a mining project yeap that doesn't gain environmental approval,

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Speaker 1: has the territory coordinator then got an opportunity to override

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Speaker 1: that decision.

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Speaker 4: It's not like that. It's more about a process. So

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Speaker 4: for example, if we had a territory development area, say

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Speaker 4: Middle Arm or out in the Barkley, that's vast areas

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Speaker 4: of land great for agriculture. If we designate a particular

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Speaker 4: area as a territory development area, we could decide to

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Speaker 4: do all approvals for that area in the same way.

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Speaker 4: So it might be that you have exemptions around the

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Speaker 4: planning process, for example, or it might be that there's

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Speaker 4: particular duplication and environmental approvals between the territory and the Commonwealth,

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Speaker 4: which does happen, and so where we can see that

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Speaker 4: one process is already happening and the other is a duplicate,

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Speaker 4: absolutely we'll exempt the duplication because why make the proponent

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Speaker 4: go through twice the level.

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Speaker 2: Of pain for the same outcome.

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Speaker 3: But so you're confident that there's not going to be.

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Speaker 1: You know, any projects that do not pass the pub

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Speaker 1: test when it comes to the environment. No.

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Speaker 4: No, At the end of the day, this will fast

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Speaker 4: track processes and that's what it's designed to do because

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Speaker 4: our current processes just don't We haven't got a new mind, Katie,

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Speaker 4: we haven't got a major project.

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Speaker 2: It's broke.

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Speaker 4: And so yeah, this will cut through some of the guff. Absolutely,

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Speaker 4: but there's lots of checks and balances, including that the

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Speaker 4: Territory Coordinator Office has to publish their decisions, has to

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Speaker 4: be tabled in Parliament. There's public transparency around it. And

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Speaker 4: again the average punter will have access to this information.

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Speaker 4: They can judge us on our actions and if they

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Speaker 4: don't like it, they have the power of that vote

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Speaker 4: in four years time, Katie. But my job is to

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Speaker 4: deliver change and rebuilding the economy is a huge part

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Speaker 4: of delivering a saved territory.

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Speaker 1: Look, plenty of messages coming through. There's one here that

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Speaker 1: says grow the NT stop off and territory. This person says,

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Speaker 1: sack three quarters of the public servants. That would be great.

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Speaker 1: Another one coming through Wayne saying ah leeh so can

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Speaker 1: you please.

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Speaker 3: Tell us has the ship lift been put on hold?

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Speaker 4: No, that project is still going ahead. I haven't had

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Speaker 4: a chance to go out there and have a look yet,

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Speaker 4: but my understanding is there's trucks out there.

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Speaker 2: What we know is that, you know, for the.

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Speaker 4: Territory to grow, we're going to need a lot more

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Speaker 4: than one ship lift project. So our focus really, if

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Speaker 4: you talk about minds as you were before, Katie, minds

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Speaker 4: pay the bills, they genuinely do. We get hundreds of

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Speaker 4: millions of dollars in royalties from minds that pay our

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Speaker 4: police and our teachers and our nurses and build roads,

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Speaker 4: and so people want to throw stones on one hand.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, you're driving around in your car

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Speaker 4: using your phone, and these things are all made out

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Speaker 4: of metal and minerals, and they pay the bills and

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Speaker 4: provide jobs and opportunities for our communities. So we have

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Speaker 4: to balance everything. Government is a balancing act of priorities

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Speaker 4: and rights and responsibilities. But growing our economy is the

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Speaker 4: only way out of this mess.

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Speaker 1: Leah, Before I let you go, it's today being reported

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Speaker 1: that the Office of the IKAC the annual report revealed

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Speaker 1: that only twenty percent of investigations were completed within six

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Speaker 1: months against a target of sixty percent, and forty percent

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Speaker 1: dragged on more than a year now.

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Speaker 3: A separate assessment of.

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Speaker 1: Performance by the IKAK Inspector Bruce McClintock SC found significant

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Speaker 1: disruptions caused by Commissioner Michael Richards going on indefinitely in June.

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Speaker 1: The IKAK Commissioner's future, as we know, remains uncertain as

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Speaker 1: the Commissioner for Public Employment investigates allegations as well of

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Speaker 1: inappropriate behavior. Where are things that from your perspective, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm somebody who fought for the IKAC to be established,

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Speaker 1: but I think that I, along with a lot of

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Speaker 1: other people, at this point in time, am now kind

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Speaker 1: of looking at the IKAK and going, you know, this

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Speaker 1: seems like the right thing to have in place.

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Speaker 3: It seems like we need an i CAAC.

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Speaker 1: But there has been issue after issue in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways.

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Speaker 3: Is it sustainable?

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Speaker 4: Look, it is certainly fair to say, and I said

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Speaker 4: this in my contribution in Parliament when I tabled the

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Speaker 4: Report's Katie that this impacts the public's.

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Speaker 2: Confidence in the KAC system.

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Speaker 4: And so what you if people read the reports, what

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Speaker 4: you'll see is. It's no reflection on any particular individual

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Speaker 4: or people working in the IK. It's just been a

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Speaker 4: tumultuous time. They've had chronic understaffing, which no doubt contributes

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Speaker 4: to the fact that they haven't met their KPIs. Of course,

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Speaker 4: we've had the Commissioner on extended leave and that will

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Speaker 4: continue on until the investigation is concluded. So it's been

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Speaker 4: a tumultuous time, and that, of course then eroades confidence

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Speaker 4: in the community about the institution itself, and we're very,

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Speaker 4: very conscious of that.

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Speaker 2: Katie, it's very unfortunate.

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Speaker 3: How much does it cost to you?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I can't think of that off the top of

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Speaker 4: my head.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Katie, but it's a lot. It's millions and millions.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess the question is is it worth that

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Speaker 1: money at this point?

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Speaker 4: Well, at this point it's not function properly. That's fair

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Speaker 4: to say. The report says it. The inspector's report says it.

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Speaker 4: How we get to a better place going forward. It

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Speaker 4: will be something.

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Speaker 2: For the future.

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Speaker 3: So I mean, is it something that you're going to

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Speaker 3: be reviewing.

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Speaker 4: We're very committed to the IK, make no mistake, Katie,

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Speaker 4: So we want to see a strong, healthy Ikke in

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Speaker 4: the territory.

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Speaker 2: These couple of issues have got to.

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Speaker 4: Run its course, and once that does settles, will certainly

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Speaker 4: be having a look at why is there this chronic understaffing?

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Speaker 4: How is all of this working? Doesn't need to be

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Speaker 4: done better? You know, all of that is on the table.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it is a situation in the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory where what makes it really difficult to operate in

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Speaker 1: IKK is there's no degrees of separation.

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Speaker 3: Like it's literally it's pretty hard to get.

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Speaker 1: Stuff to be able to work in there that aren't

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Speaker 1: that don't have you know, conflicts which I'm sure are

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Speaker 1: being declared, no doubt about that, but different conflicts in

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Speaker 1: different ways. So I think it's it seems to me

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Speaker 1: like it's a difficult operation to run for that reason

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Speaker 1: in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be, Katie.

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Speaker 4: You can imagine the nightmare that it is to be

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Speaker 4: employed there and constantly having to conflict yourself out of matters.

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Speaker 4: I mean the acting k commissioner last estimates, I remember

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Speaker 4: she said she had conflicts and couldn't go through with

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Speaker 4: an investigation. I've just got that number, Katie. It's about

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Speaker 4: seven million dollars a year to run the k Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so it's a significant amount of money. I think most

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Speaker 4: people want to see it working properly, but for various

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Speaker 4: reasons over the years, it's you know, it hasn't been

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Speaker 4: where people expect it to be.

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Speaker 1: Well, look Lea Finokro. Just a very quick question from

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Speaker 1: a listener before we wrap up. Hey, Katie, can you

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Speaker 1: ask Lea Finokro about the buyback SoLIT tariff that she

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Speaker 1: would double it on your show as a campaign promised.

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Speaker 3: When's that going to happen?

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Speaker 4: Yes, you ask me every week. I feel terrible. I

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Speaker 4: don't have an answer. I'm going to get on to

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Speaker 4: my relevant minister after this and say, hey, what's going on.

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Speaker 4: It is definitely on track, but clearly not fast enough

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Speaker 4: for the community. So we'll go back and they'll put

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Speaker 4: the hurry everyone'