1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,840
Speaker 1: The first day is terrifying for me, and I've just

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,000
Speaker 1: I say this with a half smile because I've I've

3
00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,720
Speaker 1: just started a new project, so I'm a bit fresh

4
00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,840
Speaker 1: on this right now. Your furthest you're going to be

5
00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,520
Speaker 1: from the mission. So there's really the first day. I

6
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: feel often just overwhelmed by how much is to come.

7
00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 1: At the same time, it's got the most possibility, so

8
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:20,720
Speaker 1: it's the most exciting. So I've got to kind of

9
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:22,440
Speaker 1: keep a lid on it a little because I can

10
00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a bed of myself, but

11
00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 1: I generally try to be kind to myself. My strategy

12
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: is usually just to give myself very small goals to

13
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 1: start with so that I can maximize my confidence on

14
00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,480
Speaker 1: a project, so that I can feel like I can

15
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:41,240
Speaker 1: gain and build a momentum.

16
00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,559
Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

17
00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,080
Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

18
00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an

19
00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with

20
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 2: finding ways to optimize my workday. My guest today is

21
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,560
Speaker 2: Natasha Pinkus. Yasha is a writer and director who's probably

22
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 2: most well known for her very distinctive music videos that

23
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,960
Speaker 2: she's created for artists such as Paul Kelly, Missy Higgins,

24
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,680
Speaker 2: and Powderfinger. Where you're probably most familiar with her work, though,

25
00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,039
Speaker 2: is through her video for Gattier's Somebody that I Used

26
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 2: To Know, which has been viewed over one billion times

27
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 2: on YouTube and was awarded the first of Natasha's back

28
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 2: to back arias for Best Music Video and also nominated

29
00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 2: for the MTV Award for Best Music Video. During the

30
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 2: first half of this interview, we unpack the entire process

31
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,440
Speaker 2: of how Somebody that I Used to Know came to

32
00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 2: be right from when Wally approached Natasha about the video

33
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,959
Speaker 2: through to it hitting one billion views. It is a

34
00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 2: fascinating journey, and in the second half of this episode,

35
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 2: I explore some of the very quirky habits and rituals

36
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:58,120
Speaker 2: that Natasha has for writing over to Natasha to hear

37
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 2: about how she works. Tash, Welcome to the show.

38
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.

39
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,560
Speaker 2: So I want to get into probably the work that

40
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,760
Speaker 2: you've created that you're most famous for, which is Gaudier's

41
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 2: Somebody that I Used to Know video, which I knew

42
00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 2: that like must have been a couple of years ago,

43
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 2: was around half a billion views, which is crazy, and

44
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 2: I was looking at it today in preparation for our

45
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 2: chat and it's over one billion views.

46
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 1: It's a lot of zeros. Yes, it's entered the one

47
00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,880
Speaker 1: billion club. So it's just another weird, crazy wild land

48
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:36,400
Speaker 1: market hit.

49
00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,200
Speaker 2: What is the one billion club?

50
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: It's by YouTube's measurements, so of course there are views

51
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,679
Speaker 1: outside of the YouTube platform, but there's one billion views

52
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:50,680
Speaker 1: on YouTube is a small crew of music videos usually

53
00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: reserved for the Justin Bieber's of the world, but we

54
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 1: made our way into it and are pretty happy to

55
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 1: be there.

56
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 2: Some great You and Beaver out there, probably.

57
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,120
Speaker 1: Some cats sneezing videos, some PANDAM magic tricks you know

58
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 1: that nice?

59
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 2: Nice, excellent, that's very cool. I want to I want

60
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,360
Speaker 2: to delve into the story behind how that video came

61
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 2: to be, and I guess to start with how how

62
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,079
Speaker 2: did you get approached to do this video?

63
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 1: Well, I've been making some music videos in a kind

64
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: of bespoke kind of manner for a few years, sort

65
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 1: of handpicking, and been lucky enough to work with some

66
00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: really great Australian musicians like Paul Kelly and Powderfinger, Sarah

67
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 1: Plasco and so on, and you get into the musical fraternity,

68
00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 1: and through that, I incidentally came to meet while in Debacker,

69
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 1: who's the man behind Courtier. And it's just a pretty

70
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,080
Speaker 1: small community of artists down here in Australia. And one

71
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:49,920
Speaker 1: thing led to another and he approached me privately, independently

72
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: when he had a demo version of somebody that I

73
00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 1: used to know. At that point, he hadn't actually confirmed

74
00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: the second singer yet, who later became Kimber and so

75
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: it was pretty tough to hear that song and to

76
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,400
Speaker 1: be approached, because it's always nice when an artist actually

77
00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 1: approaches you directly. Sometimes it can happen through a record

78
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,280
Speaker 1: label or a manager, but when it's an artist coming

79
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,960
Speaker 1: to you one on one, it seems to generate a

80
00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 1: better chance for a really creative outcome.

81
00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, that's very It's a huge compliment that he

82
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 2: approached you directly.

83
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's a big sun of trust. He'd

84
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,480
Speaker 1: seen a couple of the videos I've done before and

85
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 1: responded to them, especially the kind of I think the

86
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 1: performative quality in my videos. I really like to get

87
00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,799
Speaker 1: great performances out of singers. Singers are not trained actors

88
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,679
Speaker 1: for the most part, so there can be some challenges there,

89
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 1: but it's a really rewarding part of the exercise to

90
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,640
Speaker 1: work closely in that kind of way and director camera

91
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 1: sort of hard on your sleeve, transparent stuff is really

92
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,440
Speaker 1: what I'm known for, and I think that's what he

93
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,039
Speaker 1: was going for or hoping for for a video for

94
00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: this song.

95
00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,080
Speaker 2: And how does that work when an artist approaches you

96
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,160
Speaker 2: you to do a video for a song, Like did

97
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,600
Speaker 2: they just give you the song and go, hey, give

98
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 2: me some ideas, or like, how does that work? And

99
00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:09,919
Speaker 2: how did it work for this video?

100
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 1: Well, it can happen in any number of ways. Like

101
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 1: the best funds are whether you get the most control.

102
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 1: Like it's an interesting thing. You think there's a kind

103
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,920
Speaker 1: of I guess a popular opinion misconception that the more

104
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,880
Speaker 1: kind of brilliant and visionary musicians and artists have really

105
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, negleomatical kind of behaviors and really control freaks.

106
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 1: But in fact, I've found that they're stronger the artist

107
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,480
Speaker 1: in their vision and in their output the more trusts

108
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,880
Speaker 1: they give to their collaborators. And yeah, it's sort of

109
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,120
Speaker 1: there's no no doubt here that happened as well, Like

110
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,240
Speaker 1: Wally basically gave me the song, said dream away, come

111
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,040
Speaker 1: back to me with something that you like and we'll discuss.

112
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 1: And he was definitely involved. And he's an incredible person.

113
00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,840
Speaker 1: Let me just frame this whole thing by saying, he's

114
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: not your regular human being. I mean, this person is.

115
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,360
Speaker 1: He's off the charts in every way in creative, analytical, rational,

116
00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,320
Speaker 1: to actual everything. So I wanted his input creatively and

117
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: also you know, in terms of his pragmatic skills. So

118
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 1: he came on then in development of the idea, but

119
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,280
Speaker 1: certainly in that conception ideation sort of stage. It's great

120
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 1: to have for full faith of your collaborators, so you

121
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,960
Speaker 1: can be kind of in the quiet and dream without

122
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,359
Speaker 1: feeling like someone's kind of critiquing you every step of

123
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: the way.

124
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,760
Speaker 2: Do you remember the moment that you came up with

125
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:27,479
Speaker 2: the concept?

126
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do, actually tell me about that. Yeah, it's

127
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:32,920
Speaker 1: a funny one because I'll let you in a bit

128
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,280
Speaker 1: of a secret. Just before this email from Wally came

129
00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 1: into my inbox, I was feeling a little like I

130
00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: might not make any more videos. I was unofficially not

131
00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 1: one say retired, but on a hiatus where I just

132
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,600
Speaker 1: was feeling quite I guess I'd lost a little bit

133
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,280
Speaker 1: of my sort of spark about what I've thought I

134
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,880
Speaker 1: could achieve, and I just felt quite tired just from

135
00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 1: that particular format. I was working a lot more as

136
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,680
Speaker 1: a screenwriter, and I just gave so much to music videos.

137
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: I didn't know if I had much to give. So

138
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,120
Speaker 1: when I first heard the song, I was a little

139
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,960
Speaker 1: bit cautious. I wasn't really planning to kind of work

140
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,960
Speaker 1: go ahead. I was going to respectfully kind of say no.

141
00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,440
Speaker 1: And I heard the song, and straight away I was like, Okay, look,

142
00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: this might be the one that gets me out of

143
00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 1: my earlier tirement. And usually the first listen, especially when

144
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 1: I come up with an idea, is I protect it

145
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 1: really really carefully, Like I guard it. I don't just

146
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,119
Speaker 1: give that away like pop my kind of creative cherry,

147
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,520
Speaker 1: so to speak. I have to be alone. I have

148
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: to not have distractions. I have to really you only

149
00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: get one first blush. And I heard I heard this

150
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,120
Speaker 1: song in the quiets of the apartment at home, which

151
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 1: was a good place to hear it, and I had

152
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 1: an idea, actually two ideas immediately, which is quite unusual

153
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,480
Speaker 1: for me. Usually I kind of, you know, hear it

154
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,720
Speaker 1: a few times and things come, and sometimes not at all,

155
00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 1: not for days. But this particular time, first listen, two ideas, bam,

156
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:02,960
Speaker 1: that was it. And then it was a process of

157
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 1: converting kind of the creative to the rational, try to

158
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,800
Speaker 1: make decisions between the two, and they're practical ramvocations. And

159
00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 1: the final result isn't that far away from a very

160
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: you know, the kernel or the first idea?

161
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 2: Wow, what do you put that down to? Having that

162
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: of almost immediate spark of inspiration.

163
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: I think that some of it's got to be kismet.

164
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: I mean it has to be some sort of I mean,

165
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: I'm not one to really put my kind of outputs

166
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,480
Speaker 1: in the creative gods. I'm not really into the GENII idea.

167
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,240
Speaker 1: I think there is something else going on, something kind

168
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: of luck or incidental or something magic, you know, fairy

169
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,839
Speaker 1: dust that you can't control. I think there's the quality

170
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,600
Speaker 1: of the song, my headspace. Maybe the fact that I

171
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 1: wasn't you know that I said that I wasn't really

172
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 1: kind of invested on the first listen. I'd taken that

173
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,360
Speaker 1: kind of burden away because I didn't think I was

174
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,480
Speaker 1: going to be doing it, and I think I could

175
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,160
Speaker 1: be more free to just dream, but there'd be a

176
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 1: lot of factors involved. But I think I think also,

177
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,800
Speaker 1: I mean not to downplay all the work that came next,

178
00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: because as much as that first inspiration was powerful, I mean,

179
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: there was weeks and weeks of labor, and each of

180
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: those things are what really crafted the outcome.

181
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,400
Speaker 2: So what can you describe what that initial concept was

182
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,920
Speaker 2: like in your mind before you had to get into

183
00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,080
Speaker 2: all the logistics and mechanics of it.

184
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, there were two concepts, and they

185
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: were quite related to each other conceptually metaphorically, but they

186
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,000
Speaker 1: were visually quite distinct. The other concept actually is the

187
00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 1: one that I've explored first, not the one we actually

188
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 1: know today.

189
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 2: Really.

190
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it was lucky it didn't work out. Huh.

191
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,960
Speaker 1: Sometimes I was so desparing when that didn't work out.

192
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,840
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting that sometimes the thing that you

193
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,080
Speaker 1: think you need a portion that is the one. All

194
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 1: those sort of doors that close down in front of

195
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,480
Speaker 1: you and prevent you achieving it are actually the gifts

196
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,920
Speaker 1: for you. Because if that had come through, who knows

197
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 1: if that would have ever penetrated the same way right, So.

198
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,600
Speaker 2: What happened with that first concept? What was it and

199
00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 2: where did it like not work?

200
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 1: Well, it was an impossibility. Well, look, there's always sort

201
00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,160
Speaker 1: of three things they say in the film industry, time, quality,

202
00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,000
Speaker 1: and money. You can have two, and this was a

203
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,920
Speaker 1: low budget music video. It was funded entirely by the

204
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,560
Speaker 1: artists himself, which is what really gives you great creative control,

205
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,200
Speaker 1: but at the same time more limitations because of the

206
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 1: pecuniary basis of that. What we did have was time,

207
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: and I had someone who could really appreciate that I

208
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,960
Speaker 1: had more time to work with, so that was great,

209
00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 1: and I wanted the quality, so they were kind of

210
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: the non negotial thing really was the financial one. And

211
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000
Speaker 1: the idea that I had was a really high end

212
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,559
Speaker 1: VFX nightmare. It was, I mean, according to I can

213
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 1: only tell you that, not from experience because my VFX

214
00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: knowledge is quite poor, but the number of people I

215
00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,920
Speaker 1: went to see and ask about and the looks I

216
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: got back in return, and a lot of expressions like

217
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,360
Speaker 1: that's impossible, or technology is not available yet, or you know,

218
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,679
Speaker 1: come back in ten years or you know Avatar, that

219
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. It was pretty high end. So what

220
00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 1: was it?

221
00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,959
Speaker 2: Can you paint a picture of what it was.

222
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,360
Speaker 1: It was kind of like I mean, you know, metaphorically

223
00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,720
Speaker 1: I say, similar to the current idea in the sense

224
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 1: it was still still telling a story of two particular

225
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 1: people who were separate or we watched them come together

226
00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 1: as one, you know, in the current clip. To me,

227
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,720
Speaker 1: it's about the painting being a metaphor for relationship and

228
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 1: so basically in cases, the two people in it, so

229
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,320
Speaker 1: they become kind of part of a common fabric, and

230
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,559
Speaker 1: then when they break up or you know, when one

231
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:30,560
Speaker 1: leaves a relationship and is rendered sort of naked, they

232
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 1: leave the painting and become just this person that he

233
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,199
Speaker 1: used to know. So same thing in the other concept,

234
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,199
Speaker 1: but it was just two heads, two faces, and while

235
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: his character was marked sort of painted like, not in

236
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 1: the same necessary pattern we see now, but had certain

237
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 1: distinctive kind of visual markings on him, and very slowly

238
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: incrementally his face was joined by another face coming from

239
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: behind him into his face, so that the two faces

240
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: were kind of morphed into one face, and the second

241
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: face had complimentary markings, so together they became one face

242
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,680
Speaker 1: and then went through to the other side, through to

243
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 1: the front, leaving him with their markings in replacement. So

244
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of the same, sort of like a switcher

245
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,560
Speaker 1: roof of mark same sty sorry idea, but just a

246
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,680
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of technology. And so when it

247
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,160
Speaker 1: came down to it, I was like, I don't really

248
00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: I tend to avoid technology when I can, only because

249
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: I can't control it, and so I prefer something handmade

250
00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,920
Speaker 1: and physical. So the second concept suited me better because

251
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 1: it's stop motion and it's much more kind of low

252
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 1: fire visually as well. It's much more my aesthetic and walies.

253
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: But to start with, I was much more sort of

254
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 1: attached to that original concept.

255
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,120
Speaker 2: So how did you feel when you learned that that

256
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 2: was a technical impossibility and you had to almost go

257
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,680
Speaker 2: to Plan B in a way?

258
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,199
Speaker 1: Well? Heartbroken? And it's a new feeling for me because

259
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 1: one thing I've always said is it's not like the how,

260
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: He's not that impossible. Nothing's impossible, it's the what that's

261
00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: really hard. Once you can it can be really possible

262
00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,240
Speaker 1: a sense and possibility to find that one thing that

263
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 1: you want to do, that one truth you want to tell,

264
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 1: the one project you want to invest in time in

265
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: that can take forever on earth. And once you've got that,

266
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: then it's just a process. It's pragmatism, and that's everything's achievable.

267
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,840
Speaker 1: So I've to find out that I had the what,

268
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,640
Speaker 1: but I was being told I kind of the how

269
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,400
Speaker 1: that was just outside my experience, and to Ruth be

270
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,920
Speaker 1: told I quite possibly could have pushed some way, like

271
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,280
Speaker 1: I believe I probably could have found a team, a

272
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 1: mechanism at aol. The fact that I kind of diverted

273
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,400
Speaker 1: into Step two or Plan B really probably reveals that

274
00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 1: I was equally as intrigued in that, and that took

275
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,240
Speaker 1: off so quickly once I was in the throes of research.

276
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,440
Speaker 1: It had its own energy in it. It was like

277
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 1: a freight train. So I didn't grieve for very long.

278
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 2: What's the time frame between going Okay, I need to

279
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,400
Speaker 2: go to Plan B. But it's kind of like an

280
00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:02,400
Speaker 2: equal Plan A to getting to the day of the shoot,

281
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,320
Speaker 2: Like how long does that take?

282
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: Oh? Every video is different. Some of that stuff, as

283
00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: I said's fixed. You have no choice, So you're inheriting

284
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,160
Speaker 1: a timeline because it's working in with a rollout delivery

285
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,240
Speaker 1: of other elements that are outside the video, like the

286
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,080
Speaker 1: album and so on. And you always need limitation it's

287
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: just that classic law where you know, everything happens in

288
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: the time we have allocated, so you don't want things

289
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 1: to go on forever. But here we had more time

290
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 1: than normal and we needed it because every project, whether

291
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,680
Speaker 1: it's a music video or a book you're writing or anything,

292
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, there's this kind of there's sort of three stages.

293
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 1: To me, there's the pre the doing, and the post,

294
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 1: and they're never equal. And some projects I get, some

295
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: of the video projects I get by their nature a post heavy,

296
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 1: some are pretty heavy, some are a shoot or production heavy.

297
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:47,880
Speaker 1: This one was going to be pretty heavy. I needed

298
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 1: all that energy and time in the planning, in all

299
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 1: the testing, and in all that execution. So I used

300
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 1: most of that conception to shoot time I could, and

301
00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 1: left less time at the other end.

302
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,040
Speaker 2: How many weeks was that from conception to shoot?

303
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,400
Speaker 1: Well, overall it was two months. I'm going to say

304
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 1: from my memory it was about a month. About a month, yeah, wow,

305
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 1: and it was pretty tight.

306
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 2: What was the most difficult part of going from concept

307
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 2: to shoot?

308
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,520
Speaker 1: Well, we have to find the personnel. So we had

309
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 1: to find our body painter. We had to find a

310
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 1: body painter who could body paint in stop motion, which

311
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 1: means one dot at a time. Because it's and because

312
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,240
Speaker 1: the budget was tired, they had to also make it

313
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 1: work and everything else had to fit. So all of

314
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: research and acquisition of all the tools and personnel and

315
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: studios and all that sort of things. It's basic production.

316
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 1: But then there's all the creative what's going to be

317
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 1: on their bodies, what's the painting of, what's what's the

318
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,440
Speaker 1: store Where is that painting going to be positioned so

319
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 1: that it has maximal kind of meaning across the canvas

320
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,840
Speaker 1: that they are, and then researching that lining and up

321
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,560
Speaker 1: testing it, changing all that kind of general R and D.

322
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 1: And in this case, we used a painting that well

323
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 1: his father actually painted Frank Debacca really but it was tiny.

324
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: It was the size of my hand.

325
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 1: It was very small, beautiful little painting that had to

326
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 1: be scaled to the size of a mural. So then

327
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: you're finding a scenic artist and then a scenic artist

328
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: who can stop motion painting. It's just like it's like

329
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 1: building a house or planning a wedding. There's lots of

330
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 1: different departments and steps and no too are the same,

331
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 1: and by the end you just need a holiday.

332
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 2: Wow, tell me about the shoot. How long did that

333
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 2: shoot go for? And what was that like?

334
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,640
Speaker 1: Exhausting isn't the word I would use, but it's the

335
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 1: only word I can think of it everyone I understand

336
00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: it was next level for me. It was a marathon.

337
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 1: There were physical and mental elements that were beyond my capabilities,

338
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: even though I was pretty well trained. And what I

339
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: mean by that is I did seven years at UNI.

340
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,240
Speaker 1: I was used to kind of intense periods before exams

341
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 1: where you're up all night and where you force your

342
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 1: brains into your brain into new cognitive terrain. I had

343
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,960
Speaker 1: a great team that I'm used to pushing into similar

344
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 1: kind of circumstances. I didn't feel underprepared. And to be honest,

345
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,520
Speaker 1: I physically trained as well, and you would be tough.

346
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: And so I had Wally and Kimbra physically getting ready

347
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 1: for the endurance sport. That was doing everything from yogurt

348
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 1: to exercise, to withholding caffeine for two weeks to managing

349
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: the diets, right footwear. I mean, this was going to

350
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:20,639
Speaker 1: be tough.

351
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,080
Speaker 2: So what time did the shoot start?

352
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 1: So the first day we painted the backdrop with stop

353
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: motion sort of approach, which is basically a photograph and

354
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 1: then painting a dab and then taking other photograph and

355
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 1: then painting a dab and then photograph, so you know,

356
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,680
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands and thousands of times. And we did

357
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: that the first day with Wally alone as well. That

358
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,280
Speaker 1: stuff you see at the beginning with him across his

359
00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 1: face and body. That took eighteen hours.

360
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 2: Eighteen hours. And is that eighteen hours, NonStop.

361
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 1: NonStop yeap, I mean that's my day. We had a

362
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,120
Speaker 1: little bit more flex because you know, the Wally could

363
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,040
Speaker 1: get up and move around a bit. We had We

364
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 1: also had to set up at the beginning of the

365
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 1: day and sort of leave, so we had a four

366
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: hour turnaround and then we came back and the next

367
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 1: day was twenty six hours.

368
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 2: Twenty six hours.

369
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was tough. That was really hard, and there

370
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,000
Speaker 1: was a lot of like I was prepared, but I

371
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: met some new challenges in that day, and so did

372
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 1: everybody else.

373
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 2: So what strategies are you using for yourself but also

374
00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,280
Speaker 2: your team because you're essentially like the director on a

375
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,639
Speaker 2: shoot that's kind of like the CEO for business, Like

376
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,120
Speaker 2: you're there to keep everyone motivated and on task and everything. Like, firstly,

377
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,720
Speaker 2: how did you keep your own energy levels up and

378
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,280
Speaker 2: your focus up for twenty six hours.

379
00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: Well, there are some things you do purely because of adrenaline.

380
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 1: You know you're in the moment. It has a kind

381
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:48,360
Speaker 1: of a limit on it. The fact that it has

382
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 1: a time frame forces your focus. The fact that you're

383
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,919
Speaker 1: like it's going to be over soon. I think sometimes

384
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 1: when these streak things stretch eternity, that's when you sort

385
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,959
Speaker 1: of start to lose hope and focus. But you know,

386
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 1: you just have to hold your bread through this and

387
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 1: you can get to the other end. There are sort

388
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 1: of moments and tricks you can do. Usually I would

389
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,439
Speaker 1: never stop. I think what I mean by that is

390
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,919
Speaker 1: I've never really delegated very well this I had no

391
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,639
Speaker 1: choice at about I think it was about eleven PM

392
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: or day two. I started feeling like I needed a break,

393
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: but we couldn't break. So I delegated for forty five

394
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: minutes and I lay down for forty five minutes. I

395
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 1: knew were another twelve hours ago, and I was really

396
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: starting to get physically. I was seeing some weird signs

397
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: and I've only recently started telling the story. It's interesting

398
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: because I don't know. I was sort of secret, but

399
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of been a bit painful, but

400
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,360
Speaker 1: now instead of it's instead of kind of an anecdote

401
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 1: I can share. But I did sort of have some

402
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: mental cognitive lapses from the overwork. I was only aware

403
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 1: of it about midnight and day two, where I was

404
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: looking down at a white floor and I didn't know

405
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:58,199
Speaker 1: it was.

406
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 2: A white floor.

407
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 1: I remarked with the cinematographer that there was just so

408
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,520
Speaker 1: many triangles everywhere. I never noticed how many triangles they

409
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: were before. Isn't it so interesting how those triangles? And

410
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 1: he didn't know I was talking about that, I really

411
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: and looking at the floor, I was explained I was

412
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 1: seeing this kind of like line work in the paint.

413
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was some sort of, you know, magical

414
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: kind of coincidence. But of course i'd sort of burned

415
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: a little sort of I guess impression of the artwork

416
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 1: on my retina because I've been staring at it for

417
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,199
Speaker 1: so long, I was starting to see it on my

418
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 1: hands and my arms. So I started realizing if I

419
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: feeling like that, the other's will too, if they're not already.

420
00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: Then Kimbra fainted, so Kimber went down as well. So

421
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 1: that was a comin. Yeah, she fainted. That that was

422
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 1: a bit, but that was a little bit, a little

423
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 1: bit expected because she was staring at the artwork for

424
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: too long with you know, the kind of a focal

425
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,159
Speaker 1: point sort of started messing with it. So there's some

426
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 1: really kind of athletic, brutal, like physical kind of challenges.

427
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: The harder ones were just this emotional spiritual ones. You

428
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: are leading a ship, you are kind of maintaining a

429
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: mood and a positivity, and there's various personalities and everyone

430
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: needs different things. Some people need activities, some people need quiet,

431
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,439
Speaker 1: some people need to rest, some people need jumping around.

432
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: And we had a lot of playlists that had already

433
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 1: pre ranged some good music for various parts of the

434
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: day and the night.

435
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 2: Really, how do you pick your playlist just mood?

436
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 1: I guess just knowing when trying a sense when people

437
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,399
Speaker 1: need various things. I did have a couple of pep talks.

438
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: I've reserved them though, because you you've only got a

439
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 1: couple of really, you know, really important kind of moments

440
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:32,680
Speaker 1: you can have. But there was a really serious pep

441
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 1: talk at about two three in the morning when everyone

442
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 1: was really tired. Basically once Kimber and Wally both got painted.

443
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: They had to start working, and that was when all

444
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 1: the singing and performance happened. That was eighteen hours into

445
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: the shoot. Twenty hours actually, that's when they had to

446
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: start singing.

447
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,240
Speaker 2: And this is like early hours of the morning.

448
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: Morning, you know, and we had like a full shoot

449
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 1: ahead of us, eight hours left and they were exhausted,

450
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 1: and so it was time to time to bring you

451
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: one into the kitchen. And I remember I was just

452
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,440
Speaker 1: standing there and it's not like you're saying anything new,

453
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: You're just reminding every one of what we all know,

454
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,200
Speaker 1: which is that this will only hurt for a little while,

455
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 1: but it lasts the effect of it there, lasts an eternity,

456
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 1: you know. So just really what.

457
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 2: A great thing to remember.

458
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think of that quite often. I think

459
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: of that every time things start getting really difficult. It's

460
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: like this is a classic this too soon shall pass.

461
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 1: It's a really great tenant. But it's the idea is

462
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: not just focusing on that moment, but focusing on that

463
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: aftermath and that feeling of pride, personal pride that we

464
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: can all attach ourselves to because we collaborate on something

465
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: so challenging and together and in that moment, I also

466
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,000
Speaker 1: told them I was failing, and I think that was important.

467
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: I told them how I was feeling was that I

468
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,919
Speaker 1: was exhausted, and I think it was important for me

469
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: as a leader to to not feel separate to them

470
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: and to tell them, you know, oh you're feeling this,

471
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: You'll be good, but it's us. It's all about how

472
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: we're all collectively experiencing this challenge and because after all,

473
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: it needed all of us to be on the same

474
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: level for us to pull through. So that was on reflection.

475
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 1: It was just something that came on the day, but

476
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: I think that really helped.

477
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 2: Wow, that sounds like an insane two three days. And

478
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 2: so after the shoot and getting it to the product

479
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: that everyone now knows, what was that process like.

480
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: Well, the pain continued for me. Everyone else were on

481
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: holidays because I was the editor. So for the next

482
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: three weeks it was just me, and that was pretty

483
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: tough because I'm a bit, sort of a bit maniacal

484
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,239
Speaker 1: about the possible. I guess edits I can generate and

485
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: wanting to explore every single last corner of an idea.

486
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: So I was alone and just you know, there were

487
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: fifty two times I had Wally say that one line somebody,

488
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 1: and I wanted to see every single one of them

489
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: lined up against everything else, and that was. The permutations

490
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: of that were enormous. So I did shoot a lot,

491
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 1: and that the nature of it. You know, the sort

492
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: of music video often has a spray and pray approach

493
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: where I often get one hour per one minute of

494
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: on screen footage, so I'll have three to four hours

495
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: of footage to go through. And while you've got a

496
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: storyboard like key things you want to keep in there,

497
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 1: the rest of it's kind of a scramble of possibility.

498
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: And that's fun. I mean, it's fun. It's exhausting, but

499
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: it's rewarding, and you never really know when you're done

500
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: because you can go on forever. And every time I've

501
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: done a video, I think, oh, this is never going

502
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: to end, and then one day, one moment, it's just finished.

503
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 1: You just know. It's just it's an hour beforehand, you're

504
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: mile all away from a goal, and then all of

505
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, fifty nine minutes later, you're kicking

506
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: back in your chair and you're already kind of pressing send.

507
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: And it's just it's interesting. It tells you often when

508
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: it's done.

509
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: Do you remember what strategies are used in the editing

510
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: room to stay focused like that? That's a marathon of

511
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 2: a task.

512
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I tend to have. I like to agg with

513
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: myself goals whether I'm writing or editing. Editing to me

514
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: is quite like writing, screenwriting or pros writing. It has

515
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: a similar kind of daily kind of target for me.

516
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: And no matter what video it is, I've done, and

517
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: I've edited a lot of the videos I've made, and

518
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: no matter what the sort of ratio is of footage

519
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: to output, I tend to try to get one minute

520
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: at done a day first pass, which means I'll get

521
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: four full days. I'll have a cut and then I'll

522
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: start playing. The reason why that one was a bit

523
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: longer was because of all the brutal mechanics of the building,

524
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: the stop motion, you know, photo by photo, and again

525
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: there's probably a bit more footage than usual. I gave

526
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: myself a break as well because I was allowed to,

527
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: which was which is ideal where you can be away

528
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: from the footage for a while. In return, that was

529
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: a gift that would definitely improve the product where you're

530
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: not you know, just going straight through in one breath

531
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 1: but you're having a pause and coming back with fresh eyes.

532
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: So I built that into the timeline too. But yeah,

533
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 1: I think daily goals in terms of the one minute

534
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: for me is good at the same time, being really

535
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: honest with yourself if you don't make them, and also

536
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: knowing to stop if you do make it, if you

537
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: stop early, necessarily use momentum, don't drain yourself too fast.

538
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of nice. And trying almost not to

539
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: be an overachiever against yourself.

540
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you can do that towards the finish line,

541
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: but not in the middle, like you know, you've got

542
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: to and if you have one big day, like sometimes

543
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 1: I let myself have a big day, but then I

544
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: have to expect the next day I might be a

545
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: bit a bit off, be tired, drained. You can't just

546
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I just can't keep tapping the

547
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: resource over and over again. Need to let the bucket refill.

548
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: Do you remember when when the video was done? And

549
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: what's the film turn like? In the bag in the

550
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: can unless the cans in the band as well, those

551
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: good old bag cans can bags. Do you remember who

552
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: the first people that saw the finished product were.

553
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I first, I'm usually quite protective of

554
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: this because you don't I don't want to show people

555
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 1: too soon, because if the first impressions aren't kind of right,

556
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: they can make you doubt too quickly what you've achieved.

557
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: In this case, I think, I think I just was

558
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 1: so exhausted, and I'd been on it so long. I

559
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 1: literally didn't know what I'd done anymore. Like I thought

560
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: this could be brilliant or terrible. I can't, I can't tell.

561
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 2: So you just had you had no idea which way

562
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 2: it had gone.

563
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: Honestly, I'd lost my perspective. I mean, I was making

564
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: what pleased me, which is in a sense you really

565
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: should do most of the time. But the end of

566
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: the day, this is a communication for the world. It's

567
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: a representation for your your client, your collaborator. You wanted

568
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: to speak to people other than you, and usually you

569
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: get a sense. But I really thought this could be

570
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: too obscure to a page. Is it gut meaning to people?

571
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: Can people hold on to it? Is it going to

572
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: translate emotionally? And I was getting really terrified. So I

573
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: needed someone new, And I have a friend and a

574
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: collaborator who I trust. You know, really intensely, but he

575
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: was living overseas at the time, totally different time zone,

576
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking maybe and he wasn't across what

577
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: was going on. He was completely fresh. So I sent

578
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: it to my friend in Oslo, and I said, he

579
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: just check this for me, really really on the down low, like,

580
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: don't let it out of your side, and just honestly

581
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: just come back to me, because I trust him to

582
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: be which is crucial, to be really honest with me.

583
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: And I waited and I waited and I waited, and

584
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 1: it was like the middle of the night, and the

585
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: next day I was like almost forgotten about it, and

586
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: he rang me and we didn't really do phone calls,

587
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: and he said what have you.

588
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 2: Done, which of course I was padicked and this isn't good.

589
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: He said, you just this is this is it. You're

590
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 1: on the zarchives, mate, this is this is huge. This

591
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: is going to be crazy, like unbelievable. And I thought

592
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: he was just floating my boat. But he was incredibly

593
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: passionate about it, and I thought, okay, well, if Kevin

594
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: likes it, it must be good.

595
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: And then and then who were the other people that

596
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: saw it before it was released to the world.

597
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: Well, then you've got obviously share it with your artists.

598
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: So I showed it to Wally, and I mean the

599
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: few reasons. One you were on his reaction, but he

600
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: might have a couple of vanity shots or other reasons,

601
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: and Kimber obviously, and then it goes to management. So

602
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 1: Wally gratefully they had no cuts and no one had

603
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: any changes, which was is that rare? Look, I'm actually

604
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: been really lucky. I've never really I don't think I've

605
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: had many changes ever to do in any of the

606
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: videos I've done. But that's certainly not what I've been

607
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: exposed to. I think mostly because I spend so much

608
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: time making sure all the same creative page at the

609
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: outset that there's no surprises, really, but it's quite rare

610
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: in that, you know, this was quite an unusual video.

611
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: And then I said him to his management, who is

612
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: also his label or partly responsible for his releases and stuff.

613
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: And that's a team I've worked with before. I've worked

614
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: with them with mister Higgins and other brunanartis, so I

615
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: really had a relationship on foot and I trust them implicitly,

616
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: and their opinion means a lot to me too. On

617
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: a personal level, so it's quite nervous about their response. Obviously,

618
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: they have to really believe in a product to push it,

619
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: so they have to love it. It's in your interest

620
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: that they really dig it.

621
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: What was that like waiting for their response? Did they

622
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: get back to you quickly?

623
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: Well, look, it's always painful. This one was especially painful.

624
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little funny story. So I sent

625
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: it off to this guy's called The Eleven Music and

626
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 1: Melissa Chenery is the main contact that I work with her,

627
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: and she's amazing and very sensitive to us artists and

628
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: our delicate egos, so she generally gets back to me

629
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: super fast. And I had nothing. It was like radio silence.

630
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: I was like, this is this is bad. This is

631
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: so bad. This is the worst. Oh gone reflection. It's

632
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: probably a day, but that's a lot of day, I

633
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: think it was. I think I sent it in the

634
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: evening and by the next morning I would have expected

635
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: to hear and it was midday, nothing, two pm, nothing,

636
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: end of business nothing. And I was like, Okay, this

637
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: is longest I've ever not heard for And I remember

638
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: being stuck in traffic at like seven pm the next night,

639
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: twenty four hours after I'd sent it off and my

640
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: phone rang and it was hurt and I was like, okay,

641
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: I was already braced for the worst ever response, and

642
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: she started chatting with me. Nothing immediately, but what I

643
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: learned was that that day one of her major artists

644
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: had actually announced Silver Chair had announced that they were

645
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: breaking up and tiring, and so understandably that had a

646
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: busy day and she hadn't got around to watching the

647
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: video till that evening, so I had missed that media

648
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: because I was in the cave, so I missed the

649
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: whole press conference debacle. But anyway, the point is that

650
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: she said, I'll never forget this. She said, Tash, this

651
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 1: is what is one video you get in a generation.

652
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: We are going to change our entire release strategy of

653
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: the song so that people only ever hear the song

654
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: when they see the video. They're going to be one entity.

655
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: And this is going to be huge. And that was it.

656
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: And I didn't, to be honest, didn't really believe her.

657
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, whatever, you know, it's great, thanks,

658
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: but I didn't think that she was in any way

659
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: control of this outcome. That being said, the response obviously

660
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: exceeded all of our expectations and then some So I

661
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: think their release strategy certainly had a hand in that,

662
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: but I think something else bizarrely just lifted it up

663
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: and blew it into the stratosphere.

664
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: Would have been the most memorable moments since it's been

665
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 2: released and joined the billion views club.

666
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: There were so many different little things along the way

667
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: because it had life in Australia well in advance of

668
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: its life overseas, so we got to enjoy all that

669
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: crazy stuff going on here before the Americans had even

670
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: heard it. We had the ARIA, we won the Aria

671
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: Award here and then it went viral here and we

672
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: had all that beautiful fun stuff happened, and I thought

673
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: that was kind of it. Then a big turning point

674
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: was Ashton Kutcher tweeted about the video and things just

675
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: got really strange. That's when Riddy got picked up and

676
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,959
Speaker 1: next thing, it was a hit in America. But that

677
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: was ten months after it had been released here. I

678
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: was actually over at Austin south By Southwest where the

679
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: video was selected to screen, and I was standing in

680
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: a queue for a food truck and the song hadn't

681
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: really come out there yet. It was really obscure still

682
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: and these couple behind me were like, hey, man, I

683
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: check this out, and they were watching it on their

684
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: phones and I was like, dude, that's my video.

685
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: It was so cool.

686
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: I was obviously in cognito, but it was just those

687
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: sort of things then started after that, and it happened

688
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: a lot where I beat a restaurant waiting for my

689
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: take and there's a table full of people, like eight

690
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: or ten people crowd around their phones watching the video

691
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: and I'm like, what's what are you watching? They're like,

692
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: check this out, and I'm like, oh, that's really cool.

693
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: You know. That sort of stuff just kept. I mean,

694
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: it's surreal. It was just it was one thing after

695
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: the other. I was incredibly rewarding.

696
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing, what a story. I want to switch gears

697
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 2: now because the like, while we've been talking about a

698
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 2: music video, a lot of the work that you do

699
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: professionally and have done for the last few years is

700
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 2: writing work. So whether that be writing screenplays. I know

701
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: you're working on a novel at the moment, and I

702
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: want to talk about how how do you like, where

703
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: where do your ideas come from? How how do you

704
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: think creatively? Where like when you're at the start of

705
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: a project and you're trying to think of something, an idea,

706
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 2: a character. I don't know, what do you do?

707
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: Where do they come from? I think it depends for me.

708
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: You know, screenwriting can come from lots of different places.

709
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's the original idea of yours. Sometimes you're adapting

710
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: a novel. Sometimes you're working to an assignment, and they

711
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: all have different kinds of creative processes inside of them.

712
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's for me more of a problem solving and

713
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: in a way, more of a rational kind of creativity

714
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 1: rather than a kind of a brutal what I call

715
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: like a brutal creativity, which is where you're sort of

716
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,439
Speaker 1: looking inside versus outside. So something I wrote, a script

717
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I wrote a few years ago called Clive, was deeply

718
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 1: personal to me, and it came from a real life idea.

719
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: So being sensitive to the world around you, not kind

720
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: of mining the world like in a kind of I

721
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: guess selfish way for your ideas, but just being receptive,

722
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: being open to being inspired. Those things can lead to ideas.

723
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 1: But then when you're in the actual throes of the

724
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: mission and you've already had that decision, you've already decided

725
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: you're going to write along that course, even decision to

726
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: make along the ways to me more of a practical one.

727
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: It's more rational, it's more kind of mathematical in some way.

728
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: And in that case, I kind of dip in and

729
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 1: out from looking into myself and what I think is

730
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: truthful or necessary or authentic or humane, and then looking

731
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: outside of myself, what's in the world, what's kind of

732
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 1: resonating right now? What can I connect to a kind

733
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: of a world of vent or some sort of well

734
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 1: view that I can kind of infuse in this work.

735
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: And so you're constantly moving inside and outside in that way.

736
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: So what does the first day of a project look like?

737
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: The first day is terrifying for me. And I've just

738
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: and I say this with a half smile, because I've

739
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I've just started a new project, so I'm a bit

740
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: fresh on this right now. Your furthest you're going to

741
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: be from the mission. So there's really the first day.

742
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: I feel often just overwhelmed by how much is to come.

743
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: At the same time, it's got the most possibility, so

744
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: it's the most exciting. So I've got to kind of

745
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: people lit on it a little because I can get

746
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of it of myself but I generally

747
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: try to be kind to myself. My strategy is usually

748
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 1: just to give myself very small goals to start with

749
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: so that I can maximize my confidence on a project,

750
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 1: so that I can feel like I can gain and

751
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: build a momentum.

752
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: And what's an example of a small goal, like maybe

753
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 2: that you set for the project you've just started.

754
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: So for the screenplays, it'll be page count. That's assuming

755
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: I've already got an idea of what the story is

756
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to write. If I really I don't know.

757
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm not someone who labors too much on pre production

758
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: of stories. I don't tend to write detailed treatments and breakdowns,

759
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 1: but I do like to know where I'm going beginning, middle,

760
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 1: and end pretty much and major turns. But I don't

761
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 1: otherwise sort of plot it out. I might say to myself, now,

762
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: I write very fast, and then it's my nature. But

763
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn through my practice different ways I

764
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: work and maybe to sort of see how that might

765
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: might affect the kind of quality of what I write.

766
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 1: It takes a long time, maybe a lifetime, to kind

767
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: of accept how you are and to experiment with yourself

768
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: within certain parameters like I've written twenty one feature films,

769
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: and every time I'm sort of repeating myself and learning again,

770
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: both equally. So I, when left my own devices, tend

771
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: to write maybe three times more than I need to.

772
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: That's just how I tend to find my way through

773
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: the work. So a feature film should be around one

774
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: hundred one hundred and ten pages ish, but for some reason,

775
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: when I write, my first drafts are two fifty bit

776
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: is long. But that's because I like to write opening doors,

777
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: because I think I feel it's like that thing I

778
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: was saying earlier about the first time I listened to

779
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: a song, the first time I'm in a singing or

780
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: the first time I'm speaking through a character. I'll never

781
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 1: get that freshness again. And in that moment, I might

782
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: find two different ways for that character to go or

783
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,479
Speaker 1: the scene to move, and rather than kind of making

784
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: a note to try one later, I never get that

785
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: same moment again. So I write them both. So I

786
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: just keep kind of expanding and expanding, so that when

787
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: I got a first draft, my second draft is much

788
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: more of a rational enterprise, much more like a crafting carving.

789
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: I've kind of got the face out of the block

790
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: of wood, and then I'm kind of putting in the eyebrows.

791
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: You know that makes sense. What rituals do you have

792
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: when you're sitting down to write? Seen you sit down

793
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 2: to write?

794
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I think, to be honest, that's one of the

795
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: limitations I find a physical the mental. Yeah, so I

796
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: think I would I would work, or I'd continue to

797
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: work looking forward more safely, more comfortably, and maybe more

798
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,919
Speaker 1: if I could get my body right. And I think

799
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: that's some big challenge as I've gotten older, and when

800
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: I was younger, maybe as a romantic thing, I just

801
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: didn't think about it. I let myself maybe even looking

802
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: at that Gorgia video, you know, I threw myself into battle.

803
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: I still do with passion. But I physically get tired

804
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: more quicker than my brain gets tired. My back gets saw,

805
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,320
Speaker 1: my neck gets sore. I don't notice it while I'm working,

806
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: and then as soon as I get up, I feel

807
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: sick like I've just been shot.

808
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: Wow, So how many hours are you sitting down for

809
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: before you have this realization that.

810
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm feeling soret well, and you know I

811
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: do all those things you meant to do. I get

812
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: up every thirty minutes and stretch, touch my toes. I've

813
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: got a standing station, sitting stations. I think I bought

814
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 1: every gadget on the planet, especially really late at night

815
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: when I feel like I think, oh, I end up

816
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: on that kind of rabbit hole that looks like a

817
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: good tool, and of there' stuff I've got under my bed.

818
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: I've got every kind of ergonomic breakthrough item, but nothing helps.

819
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: So I've got to say it's not my practice, it's

820
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: just I think it's just that it is the reality

821
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: of being a desk worker. I like to write. If

822
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 1: I'm writing in the zone, like if I'm writing a

823
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: first draft, I like to write two or three hours

824
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: without a break, like I guess a university exampleing And

825
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: if I wasn't held up, I would go I could

826
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. Look, I have written eighteen twenty hours

827
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: in a.

828
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: Day, eighteen twenty hours in a day's.

829
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: And that's only And again it's kind of like the

830
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: Gaucia thing. It's because there's a limit.

831
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 2: I know.

832
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: I'll do it for four or five days, I'll do

833
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: it for a week, and at the end I've kind

834
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: of expended, you know, written, I've gone away from one

835
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 1: point to another.

836
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,879
Speaker 2: So you're doing that because there's a deadline, or because

837
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 2: you work more effectively almost cramming.

838
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: Probably both. I mean, if so, if it's my original idea,

839
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: it'll be because I want to just kind of vomit it,

840
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 1: you know, literally just kind of tell the joke in

841
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: one sitting, but with some breaks for sleeping. But sometimes

842
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,839
Speaker 1: I've been in a situation where it is brutal. It's

843
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: just a deadline situation, and it's just sometimes it's a

844
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: freelancer's curse. You just get these sort of narrative strands

845
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,920
Speaker 1: of your life occasionally collapsing on the same beat, and

846
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: you just realize you just got to suck it and

847
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 1: do it. And I've often, not often, I've I've had

848
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: times where I've had to schedule twenty four hours in

849
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: a day and you just get to get it done,

850
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, and you go, Okay, I'm gonna work on

851
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 1: this project from ten tal two, and then go to

852
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: that one from two to eight, and that one's may

853
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: to two, and then you just and it's not like

854
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: I would promote that as a healthy lifestyle, and it's

855
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: not something I would do all year by any means,

856
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: but there are you have to accept sometimes that that

857
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: is just what it needs, is necessary, And I'm very

858
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: selected by the projects I do. But it just happens

859
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: sometimes that they colorless and you get through it and

860
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: then you treat yourself and reward yourself and relax afterwards

861
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: until the next time.

862
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: How do you do that? How do you recover after

863
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: let's say five days doing eighteen or twenty hour days

864
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 2: of writing every day.

865
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: That's getting harder and harder, I'll be honest, like I might.

866
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: That's something you have to be really honest with yourself about. Again,

867
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: it could be age, it could be an accumulation of

868
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: work waiste that I'm kind aggregated in me. But like

869
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: originally it used to be I'd take a day or

870
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: two off, or i'd sleep more, or even you know,

871
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: to go to the beach, go go away. It's always

872
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: really replenishing a lot of the things of them, I'll

873
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: be honest with you. The modern day has taken away

874
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: a lot of my go tos. I used to love

875
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: going to the video shop, the DVD stor and just

876
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: strolling around anonymously looking at titles, or go to borders,

877
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: which we don't have anymore down here in Australia. Like

878
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: a lot of the things I used to do I

879
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: can't do. But as things get more and more exhausting

880
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: and harder, I need to appreciate I need more and

881
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: more downtime to cope as a balance. I mean generally speaking,

882
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: it's probably like five days on requires almost five days

883
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: off at that level, and I don't always give it

884
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 1: to myself, but you know what, you need it, so

885
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: I'll end up catch it up later. It doesn't go away.

886
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: It's like sleep. If you get a really like a

887
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: really low sleep night, you're not winning. You're just deferring

888
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: that need to another time.

889
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 2: And where do you write? Where do you do your

890
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 2: best work.

891
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: I used to have an office space and I used

892
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,240
Speaker 1: to use that to delineate the different parts of my practice.

893
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,240
Speaker 1: So you'd go there to do the editing for videos

894
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 1: or production type work meetings and so on, and then

895
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: I would reserve my screenwriting work for home. And now

896
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: I could change modes. Recently, last year or so, I

897
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: actually closed my office down because we'll partly because I

898
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: now have a dog and the poach couldn't come to

899
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: the office, but also because I actually found other ways

900
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,359
Speaker 1: of partitioning that didn't require sort of I guess those

901
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: shifts of geographical shifts. I recommend them to people, but

902
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: I don't at the moment in my life, I don't

903
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: need them. There were more hindrance.

904
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 2: How do you petition? Now?

905
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: I guess in some ways, I still maybe partition geographically.

906
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 1: I might move to a different part of their house apartment.

907
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: I partition in the day, and I might even change

908
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: my clothes.

909
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: See partition in the day. What do you changing?

910
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I think I WoT thinking about it, but I do

911
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: change my clothes.

912
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: Let's let's let's talk about partitioning the day for So

913
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 2: are you kind of saying you'll do certain types of

914
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: work in the morning? Ver's like, what does what does

915
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: that look like?

916
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: So if I'm doing my deep creative work, which is

917
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: my discovery work. So if that's creative work for say

918
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 1: music video idea or that first draft of screenplay stuff

919
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: I was talking about, it's morning, and I can get

920
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: some really good stuff done later in the day. Absolutely,

921
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: And sometimes they're sprints, so I might for example, a

922
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: good spring time for me is between say four thirty

923
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: and six, like that kind of just before the end

924
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: of the day. Quickly get this out, and then I

925
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: find that with that kind of really curtailed period, I

926
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: can actually get some gems. But generally speaking, first three

927
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 1: hours are my best, my best creative work. And ideally

928
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: I've not spoken, I've not done anything, and I won't

929
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: have put any other input in. I won't have read

930
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: the paper. I love reading the paper in the morning.

931
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: I'm an old school physical newspaper. That's a great ritual.

932
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: But when I'm doing my deep creative work, I will

933
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: roll out of bed and roll into the computer and

934
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: it's almost like a dream state. I think, what it

935
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: does is it for me? It means I haven't even

936
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: kind of assumed my identity yet. I feel really, God,

937
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: this is going to sound really kind of you know,

938
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: arty farty, but truthfully, it feels almost much more like

939
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: you're kind of a medium in that way. You're just

940
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: there's nothing interfering that sort. There's nothing's providing static between

941
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: the inspiration and the outcome. Whereas the more and more

942
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 1: I live into the world, whether that's as me because

943
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: of my clothing, because I'm answering an email as me

944
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: with my name, because I'm using my voice, because I'm

945
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: contacting the everyday kind of you know, exigencies of life.

946
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: Now there's a step between the mind and the fingers,

947
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: and there's a line and the screen, and I kind

948
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: of it gets polluted. It's just not as not as fluent,

949
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,479
Speaker 1: not as clean. I don't trust the ideas as much,

950
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: so I try to protect that. And not only that,

951
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: it's also because crap comes in, people come in, you know,

952
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 1: work life, everything interferes, and next thing you know, you're

953
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: being diverted in one hundred different directions.

954
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I would imagine that would be very hard

955
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 2: to do to roll out of bed into the laptop

956
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 2: and get three uninterrupted hours. Like how how are you

957
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: setting I guess technology and your world around you up

958
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: so that you can protect that time.

959
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: I'm not mad on technology. I mean, that's sorry, I

960
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: completely wrong. I love technology. I'm not mad on the

961
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: communicative aspects of technology. So I'm not a mad crazy emailer.

962
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,959
Speaker 1: I'll do keep my phone next to me, and because

963
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: I always want to be contactable for emergencies, for in

964
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: my private life, and I might have a like a

965
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 1: quick glance to make sure nothing's just like popped up,

966
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 1: like literally like a phone call from someone who shouldn't

967
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: be calling me that hour, unless there's something wrong. Otherwise

968
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: I do protected by telling people in advance I'm going

969
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,399
Speaker 1: to be doing this. So when I'm going into these

970
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: work modes, usually they extend for a few weeks, and

971
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: I'll make sure all my meetings or anything happens in

972
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: the afternoons and people say, Hi, can we have a

973
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: meeting next week about something? Rather so any pick an afternoon,

974
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: my morning six week a great out. Most people are

975
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: regular colaborators to know what that means. It means they're

976
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: not expecting any contact with me before lunch. So preparing

977
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: yourself for that is quite good. And the rest of it,

978
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: I just I just a bit rude. I guess I

979
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: just don't answer, like, unless it's an emergency, it can wait. Really,

980
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: It's also really important to have your food and drink

981
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 1: and of being ready and make sure that they literally

982
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: just have your life ready for that kind of stuff

983
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: and don't let yourself get diverted. I have no problem

984
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: with distraction. I mean I have no problem. I have

985
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: problem finding the time and not sticking to the time.

986
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: So you have no problem with distraction. Have you always

987
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,359
Speaker 2: been good at blocking out distractions?

988
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 1: I think so. I think I'm a little bit if anything,

989
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: it's a problem for me rather than it's What I

990
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: mean is like I have problem coming out of it

991
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: rather than going into it. And that's the biggest challenge

992
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: of this is that I will schedule things for the

993
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: afternoons when I'm doing this work. But I can be

994
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: rubbish and I need to know when I like, even

995
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: though it's only three or four hours of work, it

996
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: has a drain on you, you know, in terms of

997
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: your verbal fluency, your cognitive powers. You might get retired,

998
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: you might just be just a bit, you know, a

999
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: bit zapped. So I kind of make sure that I

1000
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 1: try to schedule things that are appropriate to what that

1001
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: state's going to bring. Like I'll try and be physical,

1002
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, if it's something physical I need to do,

1003
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 1: like er and running, stuff that's mindless, I'll try to

1004
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: put those things in rather than another cognitive drain of

1005
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 1: a different type. And you just can be clever about it.

1006
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: And also in those three hour sessions, if it's not working,

1007
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: you've got to know, like, don't push.

1008
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,240
Speaker 2: So when you just abandoned ship part way.

1009
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,280
Speaker 1: Through, sometimes I'll push, and then sometimes I'll do something

1010
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: else and come back and I won't necessarily do something

1011
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: of the same milk. So I'll do a domestic task.

1012
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: That's generally my go to because what I do is

1013
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: I switch off the kind of relationship between my mind

1014
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: and my fingers. My mind on the screen, but my

1015
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: mind's still working. So I'll put out the washing or

1016
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: something repetitive. I love repetitive actions. I love domestic tasks

1017
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: like that because it just means that I've taken the

1018
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: pressure of myself to produce something, but I'm kind of

1019
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: liberated to just you know, dream and think. So often

1020
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 1: I'll put that in between a session, in the middle

1021
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: of a session somewhere anyway, if I feel like it's

1022
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: not great quality or I need a break physically, if

1023
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: I need a break especially, I'll get up and move

1024
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,720
Speaker 1: and I'll do something repetitive that's useful.

1025
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: I want to come back to the clothes. What are

1026
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 2: you doing with your wardrobe through the day.

1027
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 1: Well, I've got a lot of wardroom changes. Yeah. Actually,

1028
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: I've never spoken about this before, like an actor, Yeah,

1029
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: well you are right. I mean, you get cues from

1030
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 1: things color wise physically. I noticed it the first time

1031
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: when I was a lot younger. I was like a

1032
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: lot younger, I was actually an actor funnily enough, maybe

1033
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: this is where it comes from. And I noticed I

1034
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 1: wasn't like when I when I say actor, I was

1035
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: a kid actor, So I wasn't like an actor, you know.

1036
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: I wasn't like trained and knew what I was doing.

1037
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: I was just performing cash. That sounds wrong, But I

1038
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: noticed after a while that I'd wear the same thing

1039
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: going to auditions there in rehearsals, which was always like

1040
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: a uniform, like blue jeans, black T shirt. It was

1041
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: just what I wore. And on set I always tend

1042
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 1: to wear this sort of clothes, And I thought, what

1043
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: is it about this? And I realize, obviously you get

1044
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: you start teaching yourself, training yourself into certain modes of

1045
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: being and thinking depending on what you wear, and like

1046
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: sometimes you can be in controller, sometimes you get a surprise.

1047
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: But for me, a color can make a difference. How

1048
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: comfortable we are makes a difference. And so when I'm

1049
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: doing my hard work in the morning, I like to

1050
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: be as comfortable as possible. It's just tracking is as basic.

1051
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,759
Speaker 1: I've got like a house clothes, like a set of

1052
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: wardrobe for house clothes. But this' when I need to

1053
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: change from that that I'll put something on I'll put

1054
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: my jeans on like I'm about to do something even

1055
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: though I'm still going to be at home. Or I'll

1056
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: put shoes on, which is a big one. For some reason,

1057
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: I hold myself differently in my seat. I feel different.

1058
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: I do most of my phone calls in motion. That's

1059
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: a big one for me as well.

1060
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: So in motion, like when you're walking or driving or.

1061
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: Oh ideally either ideally walking because I may as well

1062
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: because I need to get my steps up anyway. Hey,

1063
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: but and sitting is going to kill you. But I

1064
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: may as well walk because I get a good fluency

1065
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: of thought and I'm multitasking, but also so attached to

1066
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 1: wonder if I'm driving in Melbourne's traffic is terrifle. Terrifle

1067
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: is a word, but I mean that as an actual word.

1068
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: Terrorize you and it's horrible. And I like to kind

1069
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: of just, you know, get those calls done while I'm

1070
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: traveling from point A to B. But if not, the

1071
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: will at least emulate that by putting my shoes on.

1072
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: M That sounds wacky, hey, but I think it's important.

1073
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: You've got to be open with yourself about what works.

1074
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 2: I want to come back to what you were saying

1075
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 2: around how you'll you'll you'll do those monotonous repetitive tasks

1076
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: to almost just open up your mind and give your

1077
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 2: mind some freedom. Like where where are those situations like

1078
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: that where you're finding that you're coming up with those

1079
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 2: those gems of ideas. Those are har moments.

1080
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they usually are sort of either while doing those

1081
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: repetitive tasks or obviously that always a shower. Everyone always

1082
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: has him in the shower. I walk my dog probably

1083
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 1: more than he wants to get walked, because a lot

1084
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: he's like the fittest dog in molm in this dog. Yeah,

1085
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 1: he's he's really good for that too. What's really important

1086
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: is to quarantine that time. So I love my podcasts

1087
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:05,440
Speaker 1: and I love my audio books, but there's another cognitive

1088
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: assault so, and I think it's one that's underestimated. I

1089
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: used to I love learning languages, and I love speaking

1090
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 1: and learning French. But I stopped myself on purpose from

1091
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: my French podcast because I didn't realize until quite a

1092
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 1: long time have gone past that they were that it's

1093
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: it's more work, you know, And if you're using your

1094
00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: downtime for work time, then you haven't had your downtime

1095
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: now that seems to make sense, but I think often

1096
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: we get like addicted to that stimulus, and the stimulation

1097
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: when I go and i've had a big period of

1098
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: like I've written a really important scene or something, I

1099
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 1: go from my walk. I might be desperate to listen

1100
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: to a podcast or even music, and I'll put my

1101
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: earbuds in, but I won't put anything on while I'm walking.

1102
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: And two reasons one well three. One just because it's

1103
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: a habit too, because it tells anyone in the world

1104
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: don't talk to me or excuses me really if I

1105
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: don't hear them when they talk to me initially. But

1106
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: also because I make voice memos and they're the most

1107
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 1: important thing in world.

1108
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 2: My voice memos really tell me about the voice memos.

1109
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 1: They are everything. So it can be anything from after

1110
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: a meeting. I'll just do a brain dump because so

1111
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: many little things I want to remember after a meeting.

1112
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: I won't physically write notes, but I'll almost score the

1113
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: meeting right back. And I like to have those details

1114
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,280
Speaker 1: on hand, so if I have to meet that person again,

1115
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: I've had them. It's like I've had the meeting just

1116
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: a moment ago, but for little ideas or you know,

1117
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 1: we can always say I'll remember, I'll go back to

1118
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: my desk and I'll be there. It's not you know.

1119
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: And also if you release it in a voice memo,

1120
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: you've got room for something else to come in. So

1121
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,439
Speaker 1: I feel like if I don't release into a voice memo,

1122
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: I'm holding on with a little bit of my brain

1123
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: and I'm preventing something else kind of occurring to me.

1124
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: And so would you use a voice memo over good

1125
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 2: old fashioned note pattern pan.

1126
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: Especially when I'm out and about. Yeah, physically I do.

1127
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: I do use the notes in my phone all the time,

1128
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 1: all the time, and I'll do that for anything from

1129
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: long notes, especially like at the gym or something where

1130
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: maybe recording a voice memo is multiplical, so I'll make

1131
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: some pretty exten notes in there, but also just for

1132
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,880
Speaker 1: little things. Again, my goal it's almost like defragmenting your

1133
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: hard drive. I think that the more that you've got

1134
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: like little sort of little bits of you know, fluff

1135
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,520
Speaker 1: flying around and there, you're unconsciously holding onto them all

1136
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 1: the time and you're just preventing you're just taking up space.

1137
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: So the more that I can just even put in there,

1138
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: whether it's a do item, a long ranging to do

1139
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 1: item goal setting notes on a screenplay, whatever. I really

1140
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: genuinely can physically feel that space opening up and being

1141
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: exposed for other new material to come in.

1142
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 2: That's cool. Do you like What do you do with

1143
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 2: the voice memos? Are you getting them transcribed or is

1144
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:37,760
Speaker 2: it enough just to have them there sitting in the library.

1145
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 1: You just listen back to talk about a year for

1146
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: me to start titling them, which is annoying because the

1147
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: first year is I do back them to my drop box,

1148
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: and when I change phones, it's annoying. It's one of

1149
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 1: those really weird Apple things where they just don't seem

1150
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: to sink well into your new phone. Side By, Apple,

1151
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: if you're ever listening, can you fix that? So I

1152
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: do back them into a voice memo folder in my

1153
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: drop box. Otherwise I just give my name and I

1154
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: can easily find them again. Try to make that name

1155
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: really not obscure, but literally, I probably, I mean, I

1156
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: have thousands, thousands of notes. But they're great. I mean

1157
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: they're usually they're usually arout two or three minutes long,

1158
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: but they can be up to ten minutes long.

1159
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 2: Goodness, that's interesting. I love that. I love the efficiency

1160
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 2: as well. And just also having that uninterrupted thinking time

1161
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 2: when you're walking the dog. I feel that's just really

1162
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 2: rare in most people's lives.

1163
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: Important, really important, and you know, like sometimes it's not

1164
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 1: about thinking, it's about it's actually about an active process

1165
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: of letting go of the thoughts. I think that's when

1166
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 1: they kind of untie and unravel themselves. And I tend

1167
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: to only have the benefit of it immediately after a session,

1168
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: if another day has gone past, or I've done something

1169
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: else in between that that's gone. Like those little the

1170
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: connections and associations, they're not coming back again unless you

1171
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 1: force them, And that's a totally different thinking pathway.

1172
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 2: Now, what air? What to finish with some questions around

1173
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 2: what are you currently consuming? You mentioned podcasts, you know,

1174
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 2: I think it's hard for people to know, like what

1175
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: are consumed? So podcast what are your go to podcasts

1176
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 2: at the moment?

1177
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: Look, I'm obsessed with his one particular podcast which I've

1178
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: always been obsessed with, which is called script Notes, and

1179
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: obviously it's screenwriting, but it's not just screenwriting. So I've

1180
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: sent a few people to this because John and Craig

1181
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: are my my pseudo friends. I feel like we are

1182
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,759
Speaker 1: you know they're the host of the show, and they're

1183
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: like my constant companions, are the only people to understand me.

1184
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: I even buy the merch so that's like my crack.

1185
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: I can't go without trip notes. I listen to a

1186
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: lot of film ones because I think my pursuits quite lonely.

1187
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: Screenwriting is a very lonely life. You can get some

1188
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,879
Speaker 1: collaborators if your TV. I do a lot of screenwriting

1189
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: for feature film, and it's sometimes you feel like the

1190
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: only voice in the woods. So for me, they provide information,

1191
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: but also community default community, so that's a really good

1192
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: one I do. Also, So I try not to listen

1193
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 1: to too many podcasts, you know, like I said, because

1194
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: I think I just they take up a lot of

1195
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: that available space for me. So I'm now moving into

1196
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: audio books, which are I'm obsessed with.

1197
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,800
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's move into books, like what's a great

1198
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,800
Speaker 2: book that you have read recently?

1199
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: Well, So I always have one nonfiction one fiction going

1200
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: at the same time. Why is that Well, because for me,

1201
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: fiction is immersive and it helps me. That's a little

1202
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 1: fun fact. So if I need to be writing the

1203
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: next day, I would love to read them up before

1204
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: at least.

1205
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,600
Speaker 2: So you're reading fiction the night before or either or fiction.

1206
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: No, definitely not nonfiction. I find I don't know. I mean,

1207
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: I've done this for years where it just makes it

1208
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 1: it looks at it. Nonfiction probably does the two. When

1209
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: I was studying law, I read so much, but because

1210
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: I was reading so much for UNI, I didn't read

1211
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 1: any fiction anymore, and my fluency was really good. So

1212
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 1: I find that I guess there's something to do with,

1213
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, neuronally tapping that center that I've kind of

1214
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: excited all these pathways that they're nice and grooved in

1215
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,800
Speaker 1: for the morning. But I get a massive there's a

1216
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: massive correlation between my fluency of a day if I've

1217
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: been tapping that that night before and if I'm lost

1218
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: a little in the morning. Sometimes I'll read ten pages

1219
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,719
Speaker 1: even just just to wake up those centers before I

1220
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 1: start writing myself. So fiction. I've just read Less, which

1221
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: is the most beautiful book I've read in such a

1222
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 1: long time, and I've made me want to just give

1223
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: up because it was so good. There's a fine line

1224
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: to inspiration and depression. It's just like it's just won

1225
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: the Pulitzer. I think, so congrats, because it should it's incredible,

1226
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,959
Speaker 1: so I highly recommend and nonfiction. I'm doing Sapiens because

1227
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: I'd taken to me while I was reading Homodaeus, which

1228
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: is the same writer, and I went back to Sapiens

1229
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 1: before going forward in Homodeis, and I'm listening to that

1230
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: on audio book.

1231
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 2: And I know you mentioned that you're not you're not

1232
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: big on an email, but have there any e newsletters

1233
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 2: that you subscribe to and actually look forward to receiving?

1234
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 1: Not really, can I tell you?

1235
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 2: Though?

1236
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: Since I've got Pocket, which is a great little app,

1237
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: I've now got a tool because the problem for me

1238
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: in the past was it was never a good time

1239
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:01,560
Speaker 1: for me to read those newsletters, and then by some

1240
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: more was a good time. I just lost track of

1241
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: where I was up to. And now I've got Pocket,

1242
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: I kind of keep them in there and when I

1243
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: have a ten minute disposable kind of on the toilet

1244
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: window and m I just sort of pick up an

1245
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 1: article or a newsletter, but nothing that I'm super devoted to.

1246
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: I've just started looking at Morning Brew, but that's been

1247
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: a while since I've been doing that, so getting back

1248
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:21,480
Speaker 1: into that.

1249
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:28,000
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I like Morning Bro. Yes, that's a good one. Fantastic. Finally,

1250
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 2: where can people find you?

1251
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: Usually in my computer? Dear or walking a dog? Hi, Harry,

1252
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 1: I am, I'm on Twitter, but I'm on tweet. I'm

1253
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: kind of what's the thing Twitter?

1254
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: When you look?

1255
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:45,439
Speaker 1: But don't contribute, Not not for any sort of political reason,

1256
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: just because I just haven't really kind of gone there

1257
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter handle. It's Natasha Pinkers linked to that in

1258
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: the show. Sure, And yeah, I'm not mad on instag

1259
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm not man into that stuff. So look, I have

1260
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: no problem with it. I just literally just never really

1261
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:02,800
Speaker 1: got much out of it. The best way to find

1262
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: the work I do is probably at the Stargraving website

1263
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: or on the Vimeo channel for Stargraving Productions.

1264
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: Fantastic, Starkraving dot.

1265
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 1: Com, Starkgraving Productions dot com dot au. Longest email address

1266
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: in history, regret.

1267
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, excellent, Well, Tash, I loved chat. Thank you

1268
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 2: so much for your time, Thank you for having me.

1269
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 2: Hello there. That's it for today's episode. If you liked it,

1270
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 2: there are plenty of others that you might enjoy, such

1271
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 2: as my chat with Nancy Duarte, the Global expert on Presentations,

1272
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,439
Speaker 2: where we talk about how she prepares for her own presentations,

1273
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: or you might enjoy one of my mini episodes where

1274
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 2: I share some simple, science backed productivity tips that I've

1275
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 2: discovered in the research. Finally, it's great getting feedback from

1276
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 2: listeners such as yourself, so I'd love it if you

1277
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: give this podcast a review in iTunes or wherever you

1278
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. And if you like this episode, make

1279
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: sure you hit the subscribe button so that you can

1280
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 2: be alerted whenever new episodes are released. See you next time.