Speaker 1: Hey there, Pete here, just a quick little message before
Speaker 1: we get into today's episode, which is a replay or
Speaker 1: a repeat, as we like to call them here at Yesnik,
Speaker 1: because my name's Pete, get it. Because of the sad
Speaker 1: passing of Gene Hackman, we thought it would be perhaps
Speaker 1: a nice time to replay one of the episodes we
Speaker 1: did of The French Connection with my great mate comedian
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton, just to I guess recognize what a great,
Speaker 1: great contribution Gene Hackman made to movies and what an
Speaker 1: indelible part a role he played in our movie going experiences,
Speaker 1: from the French Connection to Missippi Burning to the Royal
Speaker 1: Town of Barms. What a talent he was. So I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this repeat of The French Connection with
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton with the course Gene Hackman. Good day, Peter,
Speaker 1: Helly here, welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet the
Speaker 1: movie podcast where I chat to a movie lover about
Speaker 1: a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got around
Speaker 1: to watching until now. In today's guest comedian podcaster mate
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton, spot wax On, wax Off. I do wish
Speaker 1: we could chat, Latiner, but.
Speaker 2: I'm having an old fan Fordnight.
Speaker 1: But haven't any right now?
Speaker 2: You ain't seen nothing year.
Speaker 1: I have a dirty secret, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Speaker 1: Vance This isn't my first movie podcast, no way back,
Speaker 1: almost a decade ago, I did a little podcast called
Speaker 1: HELLI You and Hammo Dig Flicks with my great mate
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton. We started that podcast because well, I enjoyed
Speaker 1: speaking to no one about movies more than I did
Speaker 1: with my mate Hammo. I met Hamo a couple of
Speaker 1: decades ago when he was putting the La comedy scene
Speaker 1: on his back with another great mate of mine, Limo.
Speaker 1: He eventually moved to Melbourne, where he built his audience
Speaker 1: not through TV appearances or radio gigs, but by smashing
Speaker 1: it every time he hit the stage. Not only is
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton one of the top stand up comedians in
Speaker 1: the country, he's also one of the most in demand
Speaker 1: writers in Australia as we speak. He also has a
Speaker 1: brilliant pop cultural podcast called Big Squid. Amongst many other things.
Speaker 1: Check out Big Squid It is going Bananas. Hamo isn't
Speaker 1: the kind of comic that asks what is comedy right now? Instead,
Speaker 1: Justin Hamilton ass what can comedy be? I'm bloody stoked
Speaker 1: they have my mate, Justin Hamilton hanging out with me today.
Speaker 2: Hello, my name is Justin Hamilton.
Speaker 3: And as of today, the twenty eighth of July twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one, my three favorite films are Interstellar.
Speaker 1: I sp We Forgotten who we are.
Speaker 2: Now, Miller's Crossing Now if you can't trust the Fixed,
Speaker 2: why can you Drift? And Lost Highway.
Speaker 3: But as of just recently, I had never seen the
Speaker 3: movie The French Connection.
Speaker 1: It's nineteen seventy one New York City and a decade
Speaker 1: of paranoia is about to begin, and what better way
Speaker 1: to kick it off than with Gene Hackman's complicated, booze
Speaker 1: fueled cop Jimmy Popeye, Doyle and Roy Scheider's bruised and
Speaker 1: beaten cloudy Rousseau zigzagging their way through urban New York
Speaker 1: in trench coats, peering through shop windows on the tail
Speaker 1: of Frog one and Frog two. Yeah, we might talk
Speaker 1: about that later. William Freakin's breakout film explores a thin
Speaker 1: line between good and evil as Doyle and Russo stumble
Speaker 1: upon a drug ring with origins in France, with a
Speaker 1: cracking score from Don Allis, shot almost handheld documentary style
Speaker 1: by dop Owen Roseman. His first film, He Went Under
Speaker 1: the Shoot the Exercise with Freaking also Tutsian Network, Nice
Speaker 1: and Nice CV there based on a book by Robert Moore,
Speaker 1: The French Connection is a movie that set the tone
Speaker 1: for generations of cop movies that followed. It also contains
Speaker 1: one of the best car chases of all time, Hammo
Speaker 1: out of interest, did you pick your feet in Poughkeepsie?
Speaker 2: Why do you keep asking me that?
Speaker 1: Why you got nothing to do with the film.
Speaker 2: Like every time it's been years. It's the first thing
Speaker 2: you've ever asked me. I can't keep you knowing it.
Speaker 2: I can't keep you knowing it.
Speaker 1: Stop picking your feet, not just in Poor Keepsi, in Adelaide,
Speaker 1: in Sydney, in Melbourne, that stopped doing it. It's gross.
Speaker 2: It's a bad habits. It's a nervous tick.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that line maybe when we talk more
Speaker 1: about the film later on, but it's certainly one that
Speaker 1: caused me a bit of confusion. But you nominated a
Speaker 1: few films off the list that I give as a guide,
Speaker 1: and it's just a guide for my guests to kind
Speaker 1: of pick a thought starters. There were quite a few films,
Speaker 1: about half a dozen films you came back with. We've
Speaker 1: done quite a bit of the eighties recently, so I
Speaker 1: was keen to get out of the eighties. So I
Speaker 1: was pretty happy you chose the French Connection from nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy one because I had seen it. But I reckon
Speaker 1: what I did is I watched it before I was
Speaker 1: ready to actually watch it. I reckon I watched it
Speaker 1: in my teens when this felt it just felt boring
Speaker 1: to me, and I think I kind of fat I
Speaker 1: may even fast forward it to the car chase, which
Speaker 1: i'd heard was one of the all time great car chases.
Speaker 1: So I've kind of really fall in tenths and purposes,
Speaker 1: felt like I was watching it again for the first time.
Speaker 1: But why did you choose the French Connection in the end.
Speaker 3: So that's really funny because so a couple of things.
Speaker 3: One is I thought I'd never seen it. Well, for
Speaker 3: a while, I thought I had seen it because the
Speaker 3: car chase, specifically that scene of Gene Hackman's Popeye, who
Speaker 3: nearly takes out a young woman with her pram, and
Speaker 3: that scene is so kind of indelible. It was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I must have seen this movie heaps of times, and
Speaker 3: then I realized, oh no, I haven't seen it. And
Speaker 3: not only haven't I seen it, but do you remember
Speaker 3: when DVDs, not when they first came out, but when
Speaker 3: they became so ubiquitous there would be sales all the
Speaker 3: time to get rid of the stock.
Speaker 2: And that was one of the movies that I bought.
Speaker 3: I reckon a good ten to twelve years ago that
Speaker 3: when you said let's do that one, I was like, great,
Speaker 3: because you know what I can finally do.
Speaker 2: Unwrap it like it was.
Speaker 3: It was still stuck all up in the collection.
Speaker 2: So I was like, this is great. So I peeled
Speaker 2: it open.
Speaker 3: Then I watched it, and then it was weird because
Speaker 3: I felt like I was getting flashes of it, like
Speaker 3: hang on, maybe I have seen this. And then I
Speaker 3: spoke to my mum and she reckons, I have seen it,
Speaker 3: but probably exactly the same way you viewed it, probably
Speaker 3: quite young, I reckon. It might have been one of
Speaker 3: those things where mum was up watching a film I
Speaker 3: didn't want to go to bed.
Speaker 2: She said, do you want to watch this?
Speaker 3: And I probably checked out at some point because in
Speaker 3: the ways it is, it's a real throwback film. There's
Speaker 3: not a lot of dialogue. It is kind of the
Speaker 3: boring aspects of police work, which is a lot of
Speaker 3: just standing around in the cold, watching other people eat
Speaker 3: really good food. And also Gene Hackman's character is compelling
Speaker 3: but quite shocking, and I think he was probably shocking
Speaker 3: to me as a teenager and in the current era,
Speaker 3: who like, there's a lot to unpack there with Popeye, right.
Speaker 1: There really is, there really is, And you're right, it
Speaker 1: does take a while, it takes its time. You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: It dives into the boring aspects of policing, like you say,
Speaker 1: and I think as a teenager watching it, and to
Speaker 1: be honest, no doubt many adults. I'll be interested to
Speaker 1: see what when our listeners think of the French connection
Speaker 1: if they haven't seen it. And I had the same
Speaker 1: feeling when I watched a conversation about ten years ago
Speaker 1: just how, which is maybe I think three years after this,
Speaker 1: another kind of surveillance film starring Gene Hackman made by
Speaker 1: Francis for a Copula, And there's the pacing. Sometimes you'll
Speaker 1: see a film and this is what I love doing
Speaker 1: this podcast because I know I'm kind of forced to
Speaker 1: watch it. I'm kind of like, I know, I don't
Speaker 1: like there have been films that I've watched for this podcast,
Speaker 1: like Butchcassid in The Sundance Kid and straight away I'm like,
Speaker 1: I love this film. I'm here for it. This wasn't
Speaker 1: one of those films for me. I had to work
Speaker 1: and I you know, I'm probably getting too far into
Speaker 1: the film that I kind of like to at this
Speaker 1: stage of the podcast, but I had to. I had
Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, kind of mindfully keep engage
Speaker 1: myself and remind myself that I need to be talking
Speaker 1: about this with Hamo in the morning, so you need
Speaker 1: you need to watch it. I got there. I got there,
Speaker 1: you know, and I you know, but it is, you know,
Speaker 1: those seventies films, they are at different pace. We're so
Speaker 1: used to things happening, you know, and getting spoon fed
Speaker 1: and having stuff delivered on the plate to us these days,
Speaker 1: and this film does not do that in any way,
Speaker 1: shape or form.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fascinating.
Speaker 3: It also has a definitive pace, which is, as you said,
Speaker 3: very seventies, but it also has an esthetic that feels
Speaker 3: very modern. And you know, like, so I was reading
Speaker 3: about how Freed. Can you know the way it's shot.
Speaker 3: It's shot like a documentary. It doesn't go looking for
Speaker 3: the characters. Characters kind of walk into the shot, and
Speaker 3: that hadn't.
Speaker 2: Really been done before.
Speaker 3: I think there was a French movie that he'd seen
Speaker 3: that he was inspired by, and because he had a
Speaker 3: documentary background, he applied it to this film.
Speaker 2: But you know, they're very different films. But funnily enough,
Speaker 2: I was getting a tenant vibe from it.
Speaker 3: The look of it and the way it was shot
Speaker 3: and the lack of dialogue and the seventies esthetic. Is
Speaker 3: it's quite popular amongst a lot of filmmakers now and
Speaker 3: then they've just sped it up with things.
Speaker 2: Kind of happening.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, one of the most riveting scenes,
Speaker 3: and it's a funny thing to say, but one of
Speaker 3: the most riveting scenes is Geene hack been trying to
Speaker 3: tail you know, the bad guy and then walking on
Speaker 3: and off a train.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, how is this riveting?
Speaker 1: But it is absolutely And I love that scene and
Speaker 1: I have led you way further down this path that
Speaker 1: I plan to go at this stage of the film.
Speaker 1: But this is what Hammo and me do. We basically
Speaker 1: we get chatting Hamos in Sydney. I'm in Melbourne. We
Speaker 1: used to hang out a lot, like physically, you know,
Speaker 1: catch up. We are going to do that. We have
Speaker 1: a podcast. I mentioned that in the intro and that
Speaker 1: was basically was we made that because based on the
Speaker 1: conversation we're having. Listen, we want to this record these
Speaker 1: conversations we're having.
Speaker 2: And why we waste it.
Speaker 1: But it's always hard the court. It takes me about
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes to get the work each day and it's
Speaker 1: it's not quite well, it's nowhere near enough time for
Speaker 1: me to call you in that time. So we actually
Speaker 1: hadn't spoken to each other for a little while, because
Speaker 1: even though despite the various lockdowns you know, this year,
Speaker 1: we hadn't spoked with each other for a little while.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot to a lot to talk about.
Speaker 1: And I want to talk about your three favorite films.
Speaker 1: I suspect you have and correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: I suspect I'm always fascinated by the psychology of my
Speaker 1: guess and how they kind of go about deciding their
Speaker 1: three films. I like the fact that you date stamped
Speaker 1: it because this could change I imagine at any point
Speaker 1: in time. But I imagine it's a reflection of interests, even
Speaker 1: though there's you know that these films aren't necessarily a
Speaker 1: mile apart. But would I be wrong in saying you
Speaker 1: were you would have been tempted to have three Christopher
Speaker 1: Nolan films as your top three films? Did you have?
Speaker 1: Is in the Stella at the Outright? Your outright because
Speaker 1: Vher Nolan is there? The Dark Knight, you know, the
Speaker 1: you know, almost level with it, how closest tenant there
Speaker 1: because you are a a Nolan well, the biggest Nolan
Speaker 1: fan that I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's It's one of those things. It's funny because
Speaker 3: I was a fan from I remember seeing Memento at
Speaker 3: the cinema and it was like one of those what
Speaker 3: just happened kind of movies, you know what you walk
Speaker 3: out and then it's like, well, I'm going to keep
Speaker 3: an eye on what this guy next. And then of
Speaker 3: course the next film he makes is Insomnia and I
Speaker 3: Love al Pacino and it's Robin Williams in a you know,
Speaker 3: before he started doing a few more darker roles. It
Speaker 3: was like, holy shit, what is this with Robin Williams?
Speaker 3: And then of course Batman begins came out, and I
Speaker 3: remember being halfway through that film and he just became
Speaker 3: Batman and turning around to our friend Adam Richard and saying,
Speaker 3: I hope it doesn't shit the bed now, Like this
Speaker 3: has been really good and he hasn't even become Batman yet.
Speaker 3: So you know, I've enjoyed all of his films. No,
Speaker 3: it's Interstella is definitely my favorite. I think Dunkirk might
Speaker 3: actually be his best film. I think Dunkirk is a masterpiece.
Speaker 3: And I was, I was all over Tenant.
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 3: You know, that to me was pure Nolan hero went
Speaker 3: straight into my eyes. And if someone said to me
Speaker 3: I didn't like it for these reasons, I go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: fair enough. But guess what, I loved it every second
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 1: My brother said to me the other day, I just
Speaker 1: saw the worst film I've ever seen. I said, what
Speaker 1: you guys are ten or something. I said, listen, it's
Speaker 1: not the worst one you've ever seen, but it's not
Speaker 1: for everyone.
Speaker 2: It's not for everyone, but it's you know, you need pages.
Speaker 1: I saw that with Luke McGregor in the cinema. Is
Speaker 1: actually the first movie I saw in the cinema when
Speaker 1: we came out of one of the lockdowns and it
Speaker 1: was kind of joyous is to be in the cinema,
Speaker 1: and I really enjoy I'll need to watch it again
Speaker 1: to have like even really even a conversation with you
Speaker 1: about it, despite the fact I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: more quich it is probably more about any to sell it,
Speaker 1: but I need to see it again. But the one
Speaker 1: thing I remember saying that Luke is fuck. I love
Speaker 1: Christopher Nolan's ambition, you know, I really like here's nowhere
Speaker 1: near resting on his laurels. I don't think no.
Speaker 3: And it's look, essentially, it makes as much sense as
Speaker 3: a Bond film, and that's what it is. It's just
Speaker 3: his his version of a Bond film, which isn't cluttered
Speaker 3: with any sense of history. It can just be its
Speaker 3: standalone thing. It's almost like yours. It's an origin movie.
Speaker 2: It could be the third of a five part series.
Speaker 3: It has the potential for more stories, but in a
Speaker 3: weird way, I don't want them. I like that this
Speaker 3: is one of many that and this is the only
Speaker 3: one he's going to produce. Like what ruined Star Wars.
Speaker 3: I don't need fucking prequels. I don't need sequels. Just
Speaker 3: give me the original trilogy, you know, So that's all
Speaker 3: he's going to give me.
Speaker 2: With talent, That's what I love about Inception.
Speaker 3: Could have heapsmall movies about Inception, but just one is
Speaker 3: really tasty, and I think it does kind of make
Speaker 3: sense if you you know. Of course, it's overwhelming when
Speaker 3: you first see it because it's a spectacle, but the
Speaker 3: more you watch it there is it does make sense.
Speaker 3: And I like the ambiguity about it, which is a
Speaker 3: word that we'll get back to later on, especially with
Speaker 3: the French connection. It's something that I've enjoyed in the
Speaker 3: last few years, and it's it's where I would rather work,
Speaker 3: which is the ambiguous state of storytelling, where whoever's watching
Speaker 3: it can kind of project what they want to believe
Speaker 3: onto it. And in a way, you know, that's why
Speaker 3: I think Tenet does beautifully. And then if you really
Speaker 3: want to do a deep dive, look up what a
Speaker 3: satur square is and realize that Nolan has made his
Speaker 3: version of a satur square.
Speaker 2: I won't say anything more.
Speaker 3: Just look it up or listen to my podcast Big Squid,
Speaker 3: where I fucking break that shit down. But it's right,
Speaker 3: But Interstellar is it is everything I like in a recipe,
Speaker 3: cook perfectly and served up, and I was just wrapped
Speaker 3: with it.
Speaker 2: I love sci fi. I love big ideas.
Speaker 3: I love you know, the idea of you know, I
Speaker 3: also like that it's kind of a little bit scary
Speaker 3: and that it's like.
Speaker 2: A documentary from the future.
Speaker 3: And if you think I'm overreacting, check out the dust
Speaker 3: storms that are happening through China at the moment. And
Speaker 3: don't tell me that you want to suddenly become a
Speaker 3: corn farmer so you have a job in the future.
Speaker 1: You know. It's yeah, I mean the rise of, the
Speaker 1: rise of you know, the way that with global warming,
Speaker 1: with politics, with they said, dust storms, with back and
Speaker 1: mice plagues. You know, there's a feeling, there's a feeling
Speaker 1: that we're closer to the end then we are to start.
Speaker 3: Well, that's it, and that you can kind of look
Speaker 3: at Nolan's last three films, Interstellar, Dunkirk, and Tenant, and
Speaker 3: they are about survival and they are about trying to
Speaker 3: overcome utter annihilation. And even though you know, Dunkirk's quite
Speaker 3: clearly a film about war and something that really happened,
Speaker 3: it's that there aren't any victories in other than getting
Speaker 3: back to safety and sort of celebrating that that is
Speaker 3: a victory in itself. And you know, intenet the idea,
Speaker 3: and it's a heady idea, but the idea that the
Speaker 3: future is so terrible that they're willing to destroy the
Speaker 3: past in the hope that that somehow makes the future better.
Speaker 3: They don't know if it will, but that's how bad
Speaker 3: things have gotten. And you go, oh, that is that
Speaker 3: is a heady philosophical conundrum to think about, all wrapped
Speaker 3: up in very handsome John David Washington and Robert Patterson
Speaker 3: kicking ars.
Speaker 1: And what I love about Noel and what I admire
Speaker 1: about Tenant is you can still go like, the way
Speaker 1: I watch films is I don't necessary I'm not necessarily
Speaker 1: trying to solve every crime or kind of let generally
Speaker 1: I'm the first watch I'm letting it wash over me.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to which which makes you know Nolan
Speaker 1: films when he's in his Interstellar inception, you know, it
Speaker 1: can be problematic in a way because those films do
Speaker 1: demand I think a bit of work and you're you're
Speaker 1: they They've always got my attention in my engagement, but
Speaker 1: I am just letting it wash over me. But what
Speaker 1: I love about Nolan is at a base level, even
Speaker 1: if it's just the fact that you are getting little
Speaker 1: Endoorphine hits, because the things that didn't you you were
Speaker 1: confused about in the first half of the film slowly
Speaker 1: start making sense. Even if it's like, Oh, that's where
Speaker 1: that spinning car came from, that's that spinning cat like that,
Speaker 1: There's these little things that kind of at least keep
Speaker 1: you going, Ah, I'm following some of this, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm not completely down with every philosophical you know,
Speaker 1: wormhole Nolan's going down here, But I remember that spinning
Speaker 1: car from earlier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, the thing to kind of remember
Speaker 3: with him is that he's a fan of movies, and
Speaker 3: he watches all the Marvel movies, and he loves the
Speaker 3: Fast and the Furious franchise, and you know, loves the
Speaker 3: James Bond franchise. And you know, even when he loves
Speaker 3: those franchises, the Bond film he loves the most is
Speaker 3: the George Lazenbury one, and the Fast and the Furious
Speaker 3: movie he loves is the one that people don't like much.
Speaker 2: Which is Tokyo Drift.
Speaker 3: You know, he's a and the thing is is that
Speaker 3: he loves the work of Kubrick, but the movie that
Speaker 3: changed his life was Star Wars, and so when you
Speaker 3: take all of that into account, it's funny. Sometimes you
Speaker 3: hear people getting angry like he's trying to bamboozle you,
Speaker 3: and it's no, no, no, he's not trying to bamboozle you.
Speaker 3: He's trying to give you the same sentenceation he felt
Speaker 3: when he saw Luke sky Walker stare at two sons.
Speaker 3: He wants to give you something that you've never seen before,
Speaker 3: and he wants to do it in an entertaining way.
Speaker 3: And he's not going to talk down to you like
Speaker 3: you'll give he'll if you're jumping on points. So I
Speaker 3: think that's one of the criticisms of Nolan that sometimes
Speaker 3: his dialogue explains what's going on. But also i'd say,
Speaker 3: for a ten year old who's watching tenant, if you've
Speaker 3: got someone explaining how it works, like, I'm fine with that.
Speaker 3: He's a populis. His movies aren't m rated, they're pg.
Speaker 3: He wants everyone to see them, and he wants everyone
Speaker 3: to have a good time and walk out of it
Speaker 3: feeling like they've experienced something new. I think that's quite
Speaker 3: a lofty ambition in a movie director these days.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, the Coen Brothers. I'm not surprised to see the
Speaker 1: Coen Brothers on you lease. I thought either there will
Speaker 1: be three Nolan films, and I thought possibly couple. The
Speaker 1: Coen Brothers is one. But Miller's Crossing is a fine pixer.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's such a good film.
Speaker 3: Once again, the ambiguity of Gabriel Byrne in that where
Speaker 3: it's funny he's kind of really loyal, but he's also
Speaker 3: loyal to himself, and he does he makes disloyal decisions
Speaker 3: and he's just he's in such a moral gray area.
Speaker 3: But at the end, you know he's he's done all
Speaker 3: the right things and in his inability to change means
Speaker 3: that he kind of comes out.
Speaker 2: Alone out of it. You know. It's the music's beautiful.
Speaker 3: I remember seeing it at the cinema and Carter Burwell's
Speaker 3: music and the and the hat, you know, floating across
Speaker 3: the forest, and it was just such a such a
Speaker 3: stunning film, and a lot of the like. It was
Speaker 3: hard to pick a Coen Brothers film actually I could
Speaker 3: have plumped for A Serious Man, you know, which is
Speaker 3: one of those underrated Coen Brothers films where if you
Speaker 3: really pay attention, it is really funny and there's a
Speaker 3: lot going on inside. Lewen Davis is also underrated, but
Speaker 3: you know, and then of course the classics like Fargo,
Speaker 3: No Country for Old Men, you know, the Big Lebowski, like,
Speaker 3: they're all such great films, and but Miller's Crossing is
Speaker 3: the one that I think is the emotional favorite.
Speaker 1: Carter Burwell is just a genius. He like, he's one
Speaker 1: of the few, and maybe I should listen to more
Speaker 1: scores when I'm in my car, but he's his scores
Speaker 1: or one of the the you know, the who he's
Speaker 1: a composed that I was just one of the few
Speaker 1: composed older just put on in the car and listen to.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's burn after reading. It's funny you think
Speaker 1: mentioned Bern after reading? How good are the Coen Brothers'
Speaker 1: career is when Burn after Reading is not one of
Speaker 1: the movies you mentioned when you mentioned eight other films
Speaker 1: they've done.
Speaker 3: I know that it's got one of the greatest moments
Speaker 3: in movie history where you're sitting there going I can't
Speaker 3: wait for Brad Pitt and George Clooney to finally meet up.
Speaker 2: Did you seriously do this to us? Which is great?
Speaker 1: I think, I think burn after reading. I think George
Speaker 1: Clooney at his comedic best. I think sometimes he overdoes
Speaker 1: it sometimes, and I think he's overdone it in some
Speaker 1: other Coen Brothers films. But and it's Brad Pitt at
Speaker 1: his funniest as well. Everyone's so good in that. I
Speaker 1: love it. Miller's Crossing I just think of that. I
Speaker 1: think of the hat when when I when I think
Speaker 1: of Miller's Crossing, I just think of that's that that
Speaker 1: that that hat, you know in the wind be lieve
Speaker 1: the autumn leaves it is. It is stunning. In the
Speaker 1: cutterbell Well composition.
Speaker 3: So many great set pieces, you know, the when they
Speaker 3: tried to take out the Big Boss, Albert.
Speaker 2: Finny and he he pulls.
Speaker 3: Out the machine gun to Danny Boy like that is
Speaker 3: a maze. The I don't think I'd ever seen John
Speaker 3: Taturo in a film before, so the you know, the
Speaker 3: look into your heart, Tommy, look into your heart, you know,
Speaker 3: all of that's so fantastic. And then his heel turn
Speaker 3: is just Pitch Perfect. You know, the great scene where
Speaker 3: you know the Dane is, you know, looks like he's
Speaker 3: going to choke Tom Reagan to death, all the all
Speaker 3: the weird camera angles and the and the and the heat.
Speaker 3: You can feel the heat in that scene. You know,
Speaker 3: It's just got so many great moments. And you know,
Speaker 3: I saw that probably around the time. So I think
Speaker 3: I saw The Untouchables was the first film that I
Speaker 3: became seriously obsessed with that was kind of like my
Speaker 3: gateway to grown up films on my own. Like, you know,
Speaker 3: there's the time where your parents show your grown up
Speaker 3: movies that you like, but then there's the grown up
Speaker 3: movie that you find off the back of being interested.
Speaker 3: So I saw The Untouchables and then that kind of
Speaker 3: opened up the world of The Godfather Godfather Part two.
Speaker 3: I think Goodfellas came out in a similar time, and
Speaker 3: I remember around that period seeing Miller's Crossing, and I
Speaker 3: put that up there with all of those.
Speaker 1: You mentioned. Ambiguity and the Coen Brothers a good one
Speaker 1: to look at ambiguity in films because they possibly are
Speaker 1: the masters at it. Like people are often trying to
Speaker 1: dissect Coen Brothers films they're quite reluctant to discuss their
Speaker 1: films and the themes of their films in any specific detail.
Speaker 1: And I've heard them say, to be honest, they say,
Speaker 1: people think films mean you know a lot, they mean
Speaker 1: lesson they think you know. And I love I love that.
Speaker 1: It seems like it might be a theme today, but
Speaker 1: I didn't the Coen Brothers. They are making films. There's
Speaker 1: smart films, and no doubt there's themes you know in
Speaker 1: these films, and but there is ambiguity all through their films. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think what you do is, this is my guess.
Speaker 3: Anyway, you make a film and you have everything in
Speaker 3: your head about what it's about, and you just don't
Speaker 3: give everyone every bit of information. And I can't tell
Speaker 3: you how relieved I am that the Coen Brothers don't
Speaker 3: talk about their films. Because recently, Quentin Tarantino, it's been
Speaker 3: on the campaign trail and a few podcasts I listened to.
Speaker 3: He's been on talking about how he wrote a novelization
Speaker 3: of What's Upon a Time in Hollywood, Yeah, which was
Speaker 3: a movie that when I first saw it, I enjoyed
Speaker 3: it while I was watching, and then I got out
Speaker 3: of there. And I didn't know how I felt about it,
Speaker 3: because Mum had been a big fan of Sharon Tate
Speaker 3: and so I'd known that story about her for like
Speaker 3: forty years, and I didn't know how I felt about
Speaker 3: where it ended up and what it said about her.
Speaker 3: And it took me a few days to think about it,
Speaker 3: and then I kind of came to the conclusion. I know,
Speaker 3: I think it's a work of genius because it's the
Speaker 3: first time I've thought of Sharon Tate as an actress
Speaker 3: and not a murder victim, and I think that is
Speaker 3: a great thing to, you know, bestow upon someone who
Speaker 3: has filled in a part of pop culture for terrible reasons.
Speaker 3: But he's been talking recently, and he's just been pointing
Speaker 3: out what some scenes actually mean, like the fight with
Speaker 3: Bruce Lee, which I always saw as Brad Pitt's character
Speaker 3: being an unreliable narrator and remembering something how he wanted
Speaker 3: it to be. But Tarantino's come out and said no, no, no,
Speaker 3: like in the context of the movie that actually happened,
Speaker 3: and it's like you just kind of chat on your
Speaker 3: own movie, like don't why are you telling me? Like
Speaker 3: you shot it in a way for me to make
Speaker 3: up my own mind, and now you're telling me my
Speaker 3: mind was wrong, and I don't like this decision.
Speaker 1: Boo shitting on his own movie. Perhaps it also shitting
Speaker 1: on the legacy and memory of you know, Bruce Lee,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think he's I think he's been
Speaker 1: forced to discuss this a little bit recently because Shannon Lee,
Speaker 1: Bruce's daughter with discusses a bit on the show recently,
Speaker 1: has come out and said, yeah, not not cool. It's
Speaker 1: not cool.
Speaker 3: And you know, he's saying, oh, I did all this
Speaker 3: research and all these people said these things, and it's
Speaker 3: like everyone's come out, so no, like what's he talking about?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: So anyway, but.
Speaker 3: So I love that the Coen Brothers don't come out
Speaker 3: of nowhere and say, now, let us explain the Big
Speaker 3: Lebowski and I'll be like a l l l l
Speaker 3: l L la la la, No, don't ruin it.
Speaker 2: It's all good. I'm fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. David Lynch is somebody who I I'm not an
Speaker 1: aficionado on David Lynch by any stretch of imagination. I
Speaker 1: do remember seeing Whilst Highway in cinemas and really enjoying it,
Speaker 1: and I think I've watched it since, so I would
Speaker 1: even struggle to recall the plot line, to be honest,
Speaker 1: of this David Lynch film, outside of David Arkettes in it,
Speaker 1: is that right, Patricia Arquette, Patricia Arquette, Okay, one of
Speaker 1: the art kids in there some ready. I can see
Speaker 1: David Arkette in it. But Patricia Arquette is in it.
Speaker 1: And Bill Pullman, Bill Pullman, that's it. I was actually, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: what's it about?
Speaker 3: So it came out in sort of like the mid
Speaker 3: to late nineties and wasn't a big hit at all,
Speaker 3: but it was. It kind of emotionally predicts the twenty
Speaker 3: first century, and it's a bit of a horror movie,
Speaker 3: but in a very David Lynch way. So essentially, Bill
Speaker 3: Pullman's character is a saxophonist and he plays at night,
Speaker 3: and then he and his wife, who's played by Patricia Arquette,
Speaker 3: start getting delivered these video cassettes, and the video cassettes
Speaker 3: when they put them on and watch them, it's them
Speaker 3: being filmed at night. And then eventually a few strange
Speaker 3: things happen, and then at some point his wife is
Speaker 3: murdered and he's taken away as the suspect, even though
Speaker 3: he claims he didn't do it, and then while he's
Speaker 3: in jail, he becomes a completely different person, a young
Speaker 3: man who then goes back to his life, and it
Speaker 3: is that's essentially what the movie is about, and it's
Speaker 3: there's nothing spelled out for you. There is nothing that
Speaker 3: is pointed to at any point that you can say, ah,
Speaker 3: did you see that scene where they pointed to that
Speaker 3: and that told you everything. There's nothing like that at all.
Speaker 3: And one of the things I love in storytelling is
Speaker 3: a circular shape, and there's a circular shape to this film,
Speaker 3: which is what to me spells out the horror of it.
Speaker 3: And it is, you know, it's funny in points, like
Speaker 3: a David Lynch film, but you know, a good horror
Speaker 3: film does make your life. Sometimes it's not jump scares.
Speaker 3: It's an emotional horror of being disassociated from your life
Speaker 3: and the trouble that can get you into. And I
Speaker 3: come back to it all the time. I think it's
Speaker 3: a I think it's a masterpiece. But once again, I
Speaker 3: could imagine some people watching it and going geez, this
Speaker 3: is taking a while, and wow, I got to the end,
Speaker 3: and I really have no idea what happened? But I
Speaker 3: think it's a I think it's an immersive film and
Speaker 3: if you kind of give yourself over to.
Speaker 2: It, watch it in the dark, don't you know?
Speaker 3: As we hear inteny, i't try to understand it, just
Speaker 3: feel it and you will be taken on a real journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think if I hadn't have seen it
Speaker 1: in the cinema, I may have you know, I may
Speaker 1: have drifted off and gotten distracted by various things around me.
Speaker 1: And I think you're asolutely right. I should revisit it, actually,
Speaker 1: because I remember really enjoying it at the time. We're
Speaker 1: going to take a break and then we're going to
Speaker 1: come back, and I want to know what you actually
Speaker 1: thought of William A. Freakin's nineteen seventy one classic The
Speaker 1: French Connection. All right, we're back with Justin Hammer and Hammo.
Speaker 1: I need to know what what do you? What are
Speaker 1: your thought? We did we did? You know? We share
Speaker 1: some thoughts earlier. But did you like it? Oh?
Speaker 3: I loved it like I loved it and I was riveted.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think I mentioned this earlier.
Speaker 3: It's it's strangely modern, like the way the camera moves
Speaker 3: and the way it depicts people. It's i'll tell you
Speaker 3: what it's confronting as well, because especially watching it in
Speaker 3: the modern day, I don't think you were ever meant
Speaker 3: to like the character of Popeye, but even more so
Speaker 3: now with how we know, you know, some aspects of
Speaker 3: American police force work. You're sitting there going, oh, the
Speaker 3: casual racism, the.
Speaker 1: Just the the first scene where one of the first
Speaker 1: scenes where they're basically, you know, they're dressed up as
Speaker 1: Santa and then they they're beating up a you know,
Speaker 1: African American kid, you know, or you know, a young adults.
Speaker 1: It's really it is really hard to watch. And most
Speaker 1: of the black characters, you know ari that yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: criminals or you know, drug users, you know, a problematic
Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, that is you know, yeah, that
Speaker 1: is tough to watch in twenty twenty one. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how it felt in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. Yeah, that's a really good question. Actually,
Speaker 3: I wonder how it did feel in nineteen seventy one.
Speaker 3: You know, it's an R rated film, so I don't
Speaker 3: think it's meant to be consumed by the masses.
Speaker 2: It's definitely a grown up movie. I think it's probably.
Speaker 3: Depicts the world that those characters live in perfectly, and
Speaker 3: I think that's what in the end, watching it with
Speaker 3: that context in mind is what made the film not
Speaker 3: feel exploitive. It was it was, Okay, well, this is
Speaker 3: their world. It's not a world that I particularly like.
Speaker 3: It's not a world that I would particularly want to visit,
Speaker 3: but I understand that's the world that they're in. But
Speaker 3: it's a hell of a performance by both of them.
Speaker 3: Gene Hackman, his intensity all the way through it is great.
Speaker 3: And I'm also curious to know if you thought that
Speaker 3: there were times where Roy Scheider is actually laughing as
Speaker 3: Roy Scheider, because you know, when Gene Hackman's on a
Speaker 3: roll trying to get information, there's a couple of shots
Speaker 3: where you see Roy Schider walking off laughing, and I
Speaker 3: honestly feel like that was him kind of breaking character,
Speaker 3: but still somehow being in character because Popeye is so
Speaker 3: ridiculous and being over the top.
Speaker 1: I love that. I hope you're right. I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to go back and watch it again. I certainly think
Speaker 1: Roy Schider is the his character is the more passive
Speaker 1: of the two. I think if you say one criticism
Speaker 1: of the yeah, you've got Popeye Doyle, who's, you know,
Speaker 1: a fascinating character, and Roy Schider is kind of a
Speaker 1: long for the ride.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you kind of get flashes of his character
Speaker 3: in that. Once again, you don't really spend as much
Speaker 3: time with him, but you do pick up he's incredibly loyal,
Speaker 3: but he doesn't.
Speaker 2: The reason he gets along.
Speaker 3: With Popeye's he'll put up with his shit to a
Speaker 3: certain extent, but then there'll be moments when he pushes
Speaker 3: back and will sort of, you know, slap him around
Speaker 3: a little bit to get him back on track. But then,
Speaker 3: you know, especially in that phenomenal scene, once again, describing
Speaker 3: it will sound strange that it's riveting, but when they're
Speaker 3: pulling the car apart looking for the drugs, and and
Speaker 3: that scene goes forever, and the longer.
Speaker 2: It goes, you're like, this has been a terrible mistake.
Speaker 3: And we've seen them most too, so it's quite on
Speaker 3: the cards that they have fucked this up absolutely, And I.
Speaker 1: Think it's it's it's it's set up from the very
Speaker 1: opening that this is a film it's going to take
Speaker 1: its time, you know, and I it's alike on this
Speaker 1: podcast chatting about how a movie starts, you know, what
Speaker 1: it sets up, And I think, what what this movie
Speaker 1: sets up? What freaking's trying to do? You have the
Speaker 1: the French guy who we we don't know who this
Speaker 1: guy is. We suspect he's on the lookout. He's kind
Speaker 1: of doing his own little stakeout. He's kind of hiding
Speaker 1: behind corners. He's he's spying on some people. And then
Speaker 1: we just follow him like, you know, he's eating eating
Speaker 1: a baget or something, and then he has a baguett
Speaker 1: and then and then and then he just walks through
Speaker 1: the streets of Massailles, and we're following and we think, okay,
Speaker 1: this guy's, you know, one of the players of this
Speaker 1: this film, and and then he just gets shot in
Speaker 1: the head, to the point where I was like, when
Speaker 1: the gun came up, I'm like, they're not going to
Speaker 1: shoot him because he's like, he's a guy, he's a
Speaker 1: person of interest, obviously, because it's spent two minutes, you know,
Speaker 1: walking the streets to Massaiah within and but no, he
Speaker 1: gets shot in the head and blood split on the walls,
Speaker 1: very red. The blood is very red in this film,
Speaker 1: it's I think I think it might have had some
Speaker 1: had some filtering in post go on, there some grading,
Speaker 1: but and then the lovely touch of the killer basically
Speaker 1: taking a little bit of breadstick and theget and it
Speaker 1: was a lovely touch.
Speaker 2: It is. I'm so glad you brought that up.
Speaker 3: That was one of my notes that I wrote down
Speaker 3: because it made me laugh so much, because you've just
Speaker 3: seen this poor guy get shot in the face. And
Speaker 3: not only does the guy go and take the beget,
Speaker 3: but he only takes some of it, Like he just
Speaker 3: takes it.
Speaker 2: The whole fucking beget. Mate, He's paid for it.
Speaker 1: Well, unless unless the rest of the beget had some
Speaker 1: blood on it, because there was a lot of there
Speaker 1: was a lot of splatter. I would have loved to
Speaker 1: have seen that actually, just like brushing a little bit
Speaker 1: of blood off the beget before before reading it. I
Speaker 1: must I think I thought of you when I when
Speaker 1: that happened, because I thought, I reckon, Hammo is gonna
Speaker 1: be chuckling at that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you know, well, I just it is.
Speaker 3: It's such a perfect little kind of touch to add
Speaker 3: to a film, isn't it That? It just what's over
Speaker 3: I'll just take a little bit, keeps walking, and that's
Speaker 3: the end of that guy's story.
Speaker 1: And then it's juxtaposed beautifully. Yeah, you got the basically
Speaker 1: the south of France and the year on the the
Speaker 1: rivery era, I guess, and the house of the criminal,
Speaker 1: you know, our mastermind criminal kind of lives and then
Speaker 1: he's going to be the villain for the film. And
Speaker 1: and then you go to Brooklyn and you you see
Speaker 1: Hackman and Scheider on you know, it's interesting because you
Speaker 1: have the they said the bad guy, they said, the killer.
Speaker 1: You know, he kills somebody, you know, okay, he's the killer.
Speaker 1: And you have the cops you know, on a on
Speaker 1: a steakout if you're like, and and the resting criminals,
Speaker 1: you know, so everyone's clearly defined very early on in
Speaker 1: this film. So Hackman is dressed up as Santa, which
Speaker 1: I guess tells you that you know, he's you know,
Speaker 1: he's not he's prepared to do he thinks outside the square, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this guy, which is a nice, nice touch. And them
Speaker 1: we lead into the scene which is you know it
Speaker 1: is it is a tough watch. And they dragged him
Speaker 1: into the alleyway and they had this conversation with him,
Speaker 1: and I mentioned this, I asked you this, it's worth
Speaker 1: having a little chat about this is this is the
Speaker 1: scene where they are really playing the good cop back
Speaker 1: with the the young man they they've dragged away. And
Speaker 1: there's a week question that that Gene Hackman's popeye keeps
Speaker 1: asking what the sweet I n what's saying? The stret
Speaker 1: he lives on?
Speaker 2: Hey ship ed was like playing pick your feet?
Speaker 3: What's he talking about?
Speaker 2: I've got a man of Phokeepsie want to talk to you.
Speaker 4: Have you ever been for huh?
Speaker 1: Have you ever been for Keepsie? At here? You said?
Speaker 1: Come on, have you ever been for Keepsie? You better Forughkeepsie?
Speaker 1: Haven't you?
Speaker 2: I want to hear it? Come on, yes, have you
Speaker 2: been there?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You sat on the edge of the back, didn't you?
Speaker 1: Can you have your shoes?
Speaker 2: Put your finger between I was to.
Speaker 1: Pick your feet, don't you?
Speaker 2: That's all right?
Speaker 1: You want to see on my fight?
Speaker 2: You know what that means?
Speaker 1: God damn it?
Speaker 2: Oh what wrong? I got? Let's grape and balis bowling scores.
Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna fust your out for those three bags
Speaker 3: and I'm gonna nail your.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's strange, like it's so the story
Speaker 1: behind it is so the two the two. So this
Speaker 1: is based on a book. The book was touch boring,
Speaker 1: so we in frequent wasn't particularly interested in adapting it.
Speaker 1: But then he actually met two of the guys who did.
Speaker 1: Was he we were involved with this big kind of
Speaker 1: drug busts uh and and they cops names were it
Speaker 1: was Grasso and and Eden I think their names were.
Speaker 1: And they he hung out with them and thought, oh,
Speaker 1: you guys are really interesting and would follow him around
Speaker 1: on bus and and like go, wow, okay, maybe I
Speaker 1: could take that story, but add a whole lot of
Speaker 1: you know, add a car chase, and add you know,
Speaker 1: some set pieces and and some fun stuff and and
Speaker 1: apparently they had dressed up as Santa Claus as you know,
Speaker 1: to bust people. They yeah, you know, Popeye would would
Speaker 1: ring the bell twice to alert the police to come
Speaker 1: and arrest somebody. But apparently one of the tactics was
Speaker 1: that Popeye would often ask somebody, did you did you
Speaker 1: say did you pick your feet in Poor Keepsi in
Speaker 1: a way to throw to confuse the guys, they're kind
Speaker 1: of who are they're interrogating? So and then when so
Speaker 1: when his partner comes in and asks the question that
Speaker 1: they actually want to ask, he's kind of almost relieved
Speaker 1: that he can actually answer this question because he knows
Speaker 1: what they're talking about. So it is that kind of
Speaker 1: a tactic. So I've used it here, But for me,
Speaker 1: I must say, it kind of just confused me because
Speaker 1: I was going, what, like, you're trying to work out
Speaker 1: early on in the movie, and again I'm trying to
Speaker 1: let it wash over me, but I am kind of thinking, okay,
Speaker 1: You're still trying to follow it, and I'm thinking, what, okay,
Speaker 1: so there's something that happening in Poughkeepsi. Okay, I'll keep
Speaker 1: that in mind, Pokeepsi. And then it doesn't. It does
Speaker 1: not come up again.
Speaker 3: Well, it comes up very briefly, and so I was
Speaker 3: like you, I was like, what is going on here?
Speaker 2: Do I need to remember about this?
Speaker 3: And then the I figured it must have been a
Speaker 3: tactic to make someone feel disorientated, but I didn't I
Speaker 3: didn't know if there was a specificity to that term.
Speaker 2: And the only reason I sort of thought it must be.
Speaker 3: So that's one of the scenes where Roy Scheider starts laughing,
Speaker 3: and so he turns away at one point and he's
Speaker 3: got the giggles, So I'm thinking, Okay, well, there's there's
Speaker 3: something going on there. And then later on one of
Speaker 3: the other cops says to Popeye, he are you still
Speaker 3: picking your feet and Poughkeepsie, you know, and he kind
Speaker 3: of right. So I was like, oh, is he known
Speaker 3: for this? So I didn't know if there was a
Speaker 3: specific thing to it or is it essentially just absurdism
Speaker 3: and you and by keep asking a question that they
Speaker 3: have that he bullies them into saying yes. So then
Speaker 3: when they do ask the right question, it would just
Speaker 3: be easier for them to be honest because they've already
Speaker 3: been bamboozled so much.
Speaker 2: Is that that's essentially.
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely correct. Yeah, And then they they
Speaker 1: shot that. They went to shoot out I think on
Speaker 1: the first day, and Gene Hackman was quite uncomfortable, you know,
Speaker 1: with the racist elements. So even he I guess to
Speaker 1: go back to what we're talking about before, had this
Speaker 1: felt in nineteen seventy one, the fact that Gene Hackman
Speaker 1: was uncomfortable with it? Yeah, and he I think those
Speaker 1: shooting is on the first day and he wasn't that
Speaker 1: he wasn't really committing to it, and and I think
Speaker 1: part of it was his discomfort with, you know, bailing
Speaker 1: up this African African American kid, but also he thought
Speaker 1: that him and Scheider hadn't kind of gotten into their
Speaker 1: kind of natural rhythms of you know, of the good
Speaker 1: cop back up kind of roll. And he ends up
Speaker 1: quitting on the on the second day and freaking was
Speaker 1: was kind of harsh. We try to make him kind
Speaker 1: of angry to kind of you know, stir him up.
Speaker 1: We've spoken about this on on this podcast before. This
Speaker 1: idea that directors will and hopefully it's an outdated method,
Speaker 1: the idea that you need to get under the skin
Speaker 1: or to agitate your actor. If you hire the right person,
Speaker 1: surely you don't need to do those kinds. I think
Speaker 1: Kubrick was famous for it, and then Shelley Devall and
Speaker 1: the shining Yeah is famous or infamous. So and then
Speaker 1: they he came back, his's manager committing you to come back,
Speaker 1: and he eventually got into the role. And then they
Speaker 1: went back on the last day, I think, and shot
Speaker 1: this role, shot this scene again and it was you
Speaker 1: know what we see on the on the screen now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, manipulating actors.
Speaker 3: There's something kind of you know, it's bullying in many ways,
Speaker 3: and you've seen it with.
Speaker 2: That that that Kubrick story is awful.
Speaker 3: There's the that awful story about Dustin Hoffman really slapping
Speaker 3: Meryl Streep and Kramer versus Kramer like and you know
Speaker 3: she wasn't expecting. On the plot side, Edward Norton punching
Speaker 3: Brad Pitt in the year after Fincher told him to
Speaker 3: do it. So then you get that reaction of ah,
Speaker 3: my ear like that reaction.
Speaker 2: But you know that feels that feels different.
Speaker 3: You're you're making a movie called Fight Club with David Fincher,
Speaker 3: guess what he's probably going to do at some point.
Speaker 3: But these other films, it's like, you know, acting is pretendsies.
Speaker 3: Just you know, like I'm not downplaying it. It's a
Speaker 3: it's a wonderful skill, but it is pretensies. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if you have to psychologically damage someone to
Speaker 3: get a performance.
Speaker 1: I just think it comes down to when you when
Speaker 1: you hire your actor, hire the actor that you know
Speaker 1: can get to that point that you need that you
Speaker 1: need them to be yeah, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's amazing that he wanted to quit because he
Speaker 2: wins Best Actor in nineteen seventy one for this performance.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one. It's one of a couple of a
Speaker 1: couple of oscars. There's talk that there's a lot of
Speaker 1: improvis going on. There's been quite a bit of debate
Speaker 1: because a screenwriter said, and he won for Best Screenplay
Speaker 1: and has kind of said, no, there wasn't as much
Speaker 1: as you think. I do get a little bit, I
Speaker 1: don't know, uneasy when actors overstate the amount of improv
Speaker 1: that was done, because I think sometimes sometimes I think
Speaker 1: they're referring to even the improv of their own performance
Speaker 1: of you know, like the way they might move your acting.
Speaker 1: There's improv in every acting performance because you are you know,
Speaker 1: not everything is on the page. The way you move,
Speaker 1: you know, the way you move your hands, you know,
Speaker 1: the way you move, you know, throughout a scene. I
Speaker 1: think when you talk about improval, I think people just
Speaker 1: go to dialogue, and I think it is more than that.
Speaker 1: And I feel for screenwriters. The first time I really
Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable with hearing Vince Vaughan talking about how much
Speaker 1: they they improvised in Wedding Crashes with Owen Wilson and
Speaker 1: I just kind of thought, you know, there's somebody who
Speaker 1: wrote that, and I reckon theyrobably wrote ninety percent of
Speaker 1: what we see in your improvise. And I always think,
Speaker 1: and I quite like Vince Vaughn, but I think it's
Speaker 1: very visible when Vince Vaughan is improvising, yeah, because it
Speaker 1: feels like, oh, that's a bit they could have shortened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a bit, that's a bit that's a bit self indulgent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I just get a little bit uneasy when
Speaker 1: when when actors talk about how much they were improvising.
Speaker 3: No, I totally agree, And I think it's there's been
Speaker 3: kind of a movement that is not dissimilar to maybe
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's hard. I don't know anything about
Speaker 3: time anymore since Lockdown. It's till twenty twenty one, isn't it.
Speaker 3: But I feel like about twelve fifteen years ago there
Speaker 3: was a movement in the Australian comedy scene where it
Speaker 3: was like he's doing a routine, he's prepared, and it
Speaker 3: was you know, no, I just improvised my material. And
Speaker 3: it's like, well, I can tell like there's improvisation in
Speaker 3: the material that you prepare because every performance is different
Speaker 3: and every audience has a different reaction to different parts,
Speaker 3: so you're even if it is a pre prepared routine,
Speaker 3: you are still improvising within it because sometimes you'll also
Speaker 3: find new jokes, so you're always doing that and getting
Speaker 3: back to your Vince Fawn point. Often you could tell
Speaker 3: the comedians who were getting up, who were going, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do a routine. I'm just going to
Speaker 3: take seven displit words I've never put in a sentence
Speaker 3: before and keep going until I find it out, and
Speaker 3: you sit there and go, fuck, that could have been trimmed.
Speaker 1: I completely agree. To get back to your point, you've
Speaker 1: almost set it up as a theme for this episode,
Speaker 1: which I love is the ambiguity of this, and I
Speaker 1: do love that we don't we don't really know anything
Speaker 1: about their past. We don't know how long these two, ma'am.
Speaker 1: I've only seen it, you know, last night, so maybe
Speaker 1: I've missed it. But we don't know how long these
Speaker 1: guys have ever been partners for, you know, are there
Speaker 1: we assume there's no there's no partners involved in wives Popeyes.
Speaker 1: You know he's you know, he's got a few little ladies.
Speaker 1: He sleeps within the film, so we suspect there's no
Speaker 1: wife or a significant other, and we don't see anything
Speaker 1: from Shiders. But and I like that this is a
Speaker 1: movie about two corps trying to bring down a drug ring.
Speaker 1: The stuff we don't need. We don't need to, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't need to know their emotional wounds, really like,
Speaker 1: even though sometimes that can be very important in the film,
Speaker 1: you know, but understanding when it's needed and when it's not.
Speaker 1: And I think it's not needed in this film, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't suffer for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you feel like they I totally agree, And I
Speaker 3: feel like they've been together for a while. I think
Speaker 3: you kind of get that impression with the way they
Speaker 3: talk to each other.
Speaker 2: I think you get that in the way, as we.
Speaker 3: Discussed before about the way Shido Back's Popeye, we get
Speaker 3: little bits and pieces from the other cops. He's obviously
Speaker 3: had hunters where he's been right on the money, and
Speaker 3: it looks like he's had hunches where he has been
Speaker 3: way off.
Speaker 2: And he's also so.
Speaker 3: One of his hunters has led to the death of
Speaker 3: another cop at some point, and he seems to be
Speaker 3: either just completely ignoring it or maybe that's why he's
Speaker 3: an alcoholic. Maybe part of his genius is that, you know,
Speaker 3: he can't control it, and he dampens it by you know,
Speaker 3: running himself into the ground. And part of what makes
Speaker 3: this movie so fascinating is, you know, you talked about
Speaker 3: that opening where you go, oh, this must be one
Speaker 3: of our main characters.
Speaker 2: Up, mister Burgett. He's gone. And then suddenly we're following.
Speaker 3: These two cops and these two worlds intertwine by chance
Speaker 3: because they go to the club and then they look
Speaker 3: over and they see someone that you know, Popeye's brilliance
Speaker 3: genius gets a hunch on that is correct, that leads
Speaker 3: to something much bigger, and it's yeah, it's fascinating the
Speaker 3: way it kind of plays out that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do love that these two almost I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm the sure if beat cops is the
Speaker 1: right word. Yeah, they're cops that aren't you suspect you know,
Speaker 1: if you've seen the other guys, they're not quite the
Speaker 1: other guys where they're being they're coping ship back at
Speaker 1: the station because but you know, they're not they're not
Speaker 1: receiving medals and they're not you know, but and they
Speaker 1: they run their own they run their own race in
Speaker 1: a way. But you're right, they've had some failures and
Speaker 1: some tragedies and disasters. They're not the cops at the
Speaker 1: das putting out in front of the the press and saying,
Speaker 1: you know, these are these are our finest.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And I don't want to get to the
Speaker 3: ending just yet, but just to keep in mind when
Speaker 3: we do get there, I think the very final title
Speaker 3: card also informs us of.
Speaker 2: Their history, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3: So okay, with the denouement, I think they kind of
Speaker 3: sets in stone the type of guys we've been watching
Speaker 3: for the whole movie.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll put that. We'll come back to a little
Speaker 1: placeholder there.
Speaker 5: Forward.
Speaker 2: Anything from commercial radio.
Speaker 1: Now he's some smash mouth so Roy Scheider, they've got
Speaker 1: him cloudy. I think in this I think in one
Speaker 1: of the in the IMBD he's referred to as Buddy Russo.
Speaker 1: So we've got we're him his Cloudy and from here
Speaker 1: on in so Cloudy goes back to Popeye's house or apartment,
Speaker 1: and it's I think deliver very much deliberately. It's it's
Speaker 1: almost like a prison set up. It's quite a depressing place.
Speaker 1: To live and he's just ridden past that, the girl
Speaker 1: on the bike, and you know, even and then these
Speaker 1: days twenty twenty one, I'm not sure what I felt
Speaker 1: like fifty years ago, ninety seventy one, but it's a
Speaker 1: bit like, eh and thank god, thank god. In a way,
Speaker 1: he was the one chained up, handcuffed in that bed,
Speaker 1: and the woman was safe in between, powered, you know,
Speaker 1: in the other room.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, we don't spend a lot of time with her,
Speaker 3: so I'm not going to say that she wasn't empowered.
Speaker 3: But yes, thank goodness, he was the one with the handcuffs,
Speaker 3: him to the bear.
Speaker 2: But just that whole setup.
Speaker 3: As soon as soon as the door opens and the
Speaker 3: pushbike has kind of leaned up against the door, it's
Speaker 3: a bummer, Like you already have an idea that this
Speaker 3: guy things aren't great for him, and then you get
Speaker 3: to his house and you go, oh, I underestimated how
Speaker 3: shitty's life. Yes, and it feels like it's his fault
Speaker 3: as well, do you know what I mean? Like you
Speaker 3: feel like his life is this way because of the
Speaker 3: way he conducts himself and he can't conduct himself any
Speaker 3: other way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I like the fact that they're not. They
Speaker 1: didn't whether this was a trope already or they just
Speaker 1: ignored it or it became a trip later on. But
Speaker 1: he's not. He's not a divorce divorcee who's you know,
Speaker 1: been left with nothing and this is what he's been
Speaker 1: left with. It's like, no, this is this is all
Speaker 1: him is all he's doing. Yeah. And also you know
Speaker 1: the fact that I imagine New York cops of that
Speaker 1: ELK weren't you know, this is probably not you know,
Speaker 1: they were making a lot of money, you know, so
Speaker 1: which you know, we led to a lot of the corruption.
Speaker 1: I also, when I was watching this was thinking about
Speaker 1: the time it was made nineteen seventy one and surveillance
Speaker 1: being a reasonably like that technology those great scenes where
Speaker 1: they're listening in you know, I'm sure they were wires beforehand.
Speaker 1: And the idea of bugging a place, I think it
Speaker 1: even comes up, well it comes from the Godfather, but
Speaker 1: the Godfather is after this, But I wonder how exciting
Speaker 1: that felt for audiences like to see, like how and
Speaker 1: I've had more time on maybe you know, do a
Speaker 1: bit more research as far as films that kind of
Speaker 1: looked at surveillance, But I imagine it felt reasonably kind of schmick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, that would have felt ahead of the time.
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny because now you know it's a
Speaker 3: called this. I have to take the tape off my
Speaker 3: camera on my computer because that's just what you do,
Speaker 3: like it is, you know, Oh yeah, everything's listening to me.
Speaker 3: Oh hang on, let me just have a conversation about
Speaker 3: the French connection. Hang on, I'll just go on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Oh look, there's a site that was to send me
Speaker 3: the box set, Like, how did that happen? You know,
Speaker 3: But the idea of them listening in I feel like
Speaker 3: it would have been people who are super nerdy and
Speaker 3: up to date with surveillance techniques and people who are
Speaker 3: into conspiracy theories. The government's listening to you man, you know,
Speaker 3: it would have been that kind of thing. And here
Speaker 3: they are. Not only are they doing it, but geez
Speaker 3: it looks really boring.
Speaker 1: Yeah. One of my favorite, one of my favorite scenes
Speaker 1: is and because we mentioned this, you mentioned the scientific
Speaker 1: shut a bit. A bit more about it later. The
Speaker 1: lack of dialogue. There's long stretches where there's no dialogue,
Speaker 1: but there's a I think there's a scene where it's
Speaker 1: I think the best dialogue perhaps in the film is
Speaker 1: when they're they're having the heroin measured or tested to
Speaker 1: see how pier it is, and there's a lovely dialogue
Speaker 1: that comes from the man doing it. Let's have a listen.
Speaker 4: Plas stuff one eight zero two hundred Good Housekeeping Seale
Speaker 4: of Approval to ten US Governments Certified two twenty Lunar
Speaker 4: Trajectory Junk of the Month club Sirloin Steak two thirty
Speaker 4: Create a Poison, Absolute Dynamite.
Speaker 1: Junk of the Month, club Sirloin Steak. It's a one.
Speaker 1: It's the one time where somebody's allowed to have this
Speaker 1: kind of almost clean, patient kind of you know dialogue
Speaker 1: that's actually it's got a bit of swagger about it, really,
Speaker 1: like it's the rest of it's so real and so like,
Speaker 1: you know, in the moment and heated that this is
Speaker 1: like quiet a moment. This guy is completely relaxed about it,
Speaker 1: you know, and is in his element.
Speaker 5: Oh mate, he's a beat poet the way he's and
Speaker 5: you know, it is one of the things that I
Speaker 5: enjoy with watching specifically older movies as well, is thinking, oh,
Speaker 5: would you like to see this as a TV show.
Speaker 3: Now, I think this is perfect as a movie, but
Speaker 3: if they made this as a TV show, I'm giving
Speaker 3: that character.
Speaker 2: An ARC because I want to keep.
Speaker 3: Just testing junk all over town, just being really cool,
Speaker 3: and I don't really want to give him any come uppance. Like,
Speaker 3: I know he's not a good dude, but I'm happy
Speaker 3: to keep following him. He's kind of amusing, I've got
Speaker 3: to say, one of the most refreshing aspects.
Speaker 2: Of this film.
Speaker 3: And he is a example of this. He doesn't have
Speaker 3: cap teeth. He just has normal teeth. There's a little
Speaker 3: crack there, you know, it's like just kind of have
Speaker 3: normal mouths and people kind of you know, everyone looks
Speaker 3: like it's a sea of Caucasian men and they all
Speaker 3: look different, and it's quite it's quite satisfying.
Speaker 2: Some are a bit pudgy, some are a bit round.
Speaker 3: You know, Roy Scheider's got this this rugged handsomeness that
Speaker 3: you just do not see in actors in any way anymore.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Now actors are and this is not you know, having
Speaker 3: a go, but now they you know, they have chemical
Speaker 3: pills and they look after their faces and all that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff that Roy Scheider looks like I just
Speaker 3: spent sixteen hours in the sun smoking, and I.
Speaker 1: Feel and Gene Hackman running is just like here's forty
Speaker 1: one when he made this, and and yeah, I love
Speaker 1: that He's not yeah, is not Vin Diesel, you know,
Speaker 1: chasing somebody down. He's fucking struggling. The only the only
Speaker 1: way they catch that that kid at the start is
Speaker 1: because he thought he falls over, you know, and every
Speaker 1: when he jumps, he jumps the rail. At one point
Speaker 1: it looks like he came so close to not making that,
Speaker 1: not clearing that rail.
Speaker 3: I reckon if he had not cleared it, I have
Speaker 3: a feeling that would have been in the movie because
Speaker 3: he would have just going and they just would have
Speaker 3: they would have just left the realism of it, because
Speaker 3: you know, they left the realism of everything that happened
Speaker 3: with the car. So Geene Hackman face planting would have
Speaker 3: become a part of the story.
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have seen that and the realism.
Speaker 1: How's this for nineteen seventy seventies Hollywood filmmaking New Hollywood?
Speaker 1: And that scene that we'd just listened to where they're
Speaker 1: measuring the heroin it was real heroin?
Speaker 2: Oh you serious? It's a Heroin.
Speaker 3: All right, we'll get some it's real because you know
Speaker 3: what the best part of that is. I guess they
Speaker 3: had to claim it on tax movie king product.
Speaker 1: They I don't know, and I imagine, imagine not every
Speaker 1: time you see the Heroin, it's it's it's real. But
Speaker 1: in that instance when they measured it so that small
Speaker 1: amount where they may put whatever they put in there,
Speaker 1: and to do it all they wanted to make it
Speaker 1: as real as possible. And yeah, real Heroin. So maybe
Speaker 1: that guy of a rat party.
Speaker 3: Yeah, started off really exciting and then everyone just kind
Speaker 3: of sat around and listened to.
Speaker 1: The Let's talk about the train. You refer to it
Speaker 1: earlier on it is it's one of my favorite scenes
Speaker 1: of the film. It it. I think you said something
Speaker 1: like it has no right being that that intriguing it
Speaker 1: is so it is so beautiful, you know, choreographed and
Speaker 1: and and performed.
Speaker 3: Oh and the fact that I think what's fascinating about it.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you read it the same way,
Speaker 3: but at first I can't tell if the tail knows
Speaker 3: that he's being tailed. So that's part of the intrigue.
Speaker 3: Is is he aware or is he not aware? And
Speaker 3: is he kind of messing with Popeye or is he
Speaker 3: uncertain that Popeye is there and trying to trick him.
Speaker 3: And then there's just a point where you sit there
Speaker 3: and you go, nah, he knows, he knows, and he's
Speaker 3: messing with Popeye. And then you can see it dawn
Speaker 3: on Hackman's face where he's like, I think he's onto me,
Speaker 3: but now we're in this dance and I have to
Speaker 3: stick with it. And then he manages to trick him,
Speaker 3: and it's like all pretenses off. It's just Hackman throwing
Speaker 3: the hat on the ground, just shaking his fist. That
Speaker 3: this cat and mouse game that became something completely different.
Speaker 2: Well that guy just won.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I read it exactly the same way, and
Speaker 1: it was It was just fascinating, even when when I
Speaker 1: think the last time Hacking or Popeye gets off the
Speaker 1: train and you have the French villain in the background
Speaker 1: and you know he's gone back on, but we know
Speaker 1: that Pope are still looking the wrong way, and it's
Speaker 1: too late.
Speaker 3: You go to know, look the other way, the other
Speaker 3: way around, and why are you still playing the game
Speaker 3: of Oh yeah, I'm just casually stepping off for the
Speaker 3: fifteenth time, and I don't want you to know that
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: And then that's how that's what I thought.
Speaker 1: I thought. I thought, surely at some point you're kind
Speaker 1: of like you got to make a little bit of
Speaker 1: eye contact and go, let's do this. Yeah, it's on.
Speaker 1: The cat has found the mouse.
Speaker 2: It's so good.
Speaker 3: But once again, just describing that people would be thinking
Speaker 3: walking on and off a train, how is that compelling?
Speaker 2: But it is amazing.
Speaker 1: And we've seen we've seen you know, that scene since then,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure you know if there's how many
Speaker 1: cops chasing bad guys on trains or not even cops necessarily,
Speaker 1: but you know how many scenes like that there were
Speaker 1: predates this one, But this, I know, this feels like
Speaker 1: it might have been one that has inspired many of
Speaker 1: those scenes we see where bad guys are being chased
Speaker 1: through trains and carriages and vice versa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this feels like a really groundbreaking movie, like a
Speaker 3: ground zero for a lot of where these types of
Speaker 3: movies go in the future. And it's part of the
Speaker 3: fun of watching these films, isn't it. And suddenly, oh,
Speaker 3: I've seen that in you know, in the future down
Speaker 3: the road. There's been movies over gone we're going to
Speaker 3: do our version of that scene. And this is where
Speaker 3: this scene kind of came together. And once again I
Speaker 3: would saying, you know, as I said to you up top,
Speaker 3: it it felt even though it takes its time, which
Speaker 3: feels weird to us because we're so used to so
Speaker 3: many cuts in films now, it also felt strangely, you know,
Speaker 3: quite modern in the way it was shot and the
Speaker 3: way music was used, and the sparsity of dialogue.
Speaker 2: I thought it was extraordinary. The more I think about.
Speaker 1: It, Well, it's we mentioned it shot, you know, documentary style.
Speaker 1: It was a gorilla style because it's it's they didn't
Speaker 1: get permits for anything. So so in that scene we
Speaker 1: in frequent is basically whether it's him pushing it, the
Speaker 1: dop or at least the cameraman. I'm sure the DP
Speaker 1: shot that particular scene, or if he had cameraman you know,
Speaker 1: taking his place, but he was basically pushed in a
Speaker 1: wheelchair filming in a wheelchair. And there's a bit where
Speaker 1: Pop Up Million where gets on the plane where the
Speaker 1: camera starts you know, almost it rises and it shakes
Speaker 1: a little bit. That's him literally getting off the wheelchair, yeah,
Speaker 1: and following it. But using all the natural They used
Speaker 1: all the natural light as far as that's what I
Speaker 1: say light from you know, outside daylight. It's also lamps
Speaker 1: and whatever was they shot handheld a small unit and
Speaker 1: whatever light they had they made use. And if you
Speaker 1: look at the way that, you know, that's why when
Speaker 1: the camera comes up to the you don't see any
Speaker 1: kind of reflection. Usually there might be a light even
Speaker 1: on the camera to help out. There's none of that.
Speaker 1: And even when they're at the kiosk they're having their
Speaker 1: pop us having his toffy apple and the and the
Speaker 1: Frenchman's having whatever he's having. You know, it's it's it
Speaker 1: looks beautiful like it looks it looks it looks great
Speaker 1: and and it's still using the lighting that's uh. And
Speaker 1: it was the d I p owen Owen Roseman's first
Speaker 1: first film, like first first feature film. So he goes
Speaker 1: on to make the exous two years later with with
Speaker 1: Freaking Again and uh and like I mentioned earlier, the
Speaker 1: TOTSI network and he's a legend. But just yeah, that
Speaker 1: that that sequence was just that's that's what I really decided.
Speaker 1: This is this is this is great, This is this
Speaker 1: is great.
Speaker 3: This is a masterpiece and the way that they just
Speaker 3: kind of take their time with it. I had a
Speaker 3: suspicion somewhere in the movie, maybe the verse third. I
Speaker 3: kind of knew that the car chase didn't have any permits,
Speaker 3: but they kind of hit in the back of my head.
Speaker 3: I wonder if they really had any permits for anything.
Speaker 3: And for a few scenes in public, and I had
Speaker 3: to stop myself from doing this, but I started looking
Speaker 3: at some of the other people in the shots, and
Speaker 3: you can tell that it's there's no permits because there's
Speaker 3: people going, oh, you know, kind of is that a
Speaker 3: cameraman or oh is actually happened, you know, as they
Speaker 3: wore parts kind of thing. So so I had to
Speaker 3: stop myself for looking for that because it popped into
Speaker 3: my head. Had a little look noticed it went, don't
Speaker 3: watch the film. Don't be watching that bit there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's where your second view. And but that's
Speaker 1: that when I when I when I hear you films
Speaker 1: where they haven't got permits and they're not extras, they're
Speaker 1: real people, I always think, yeah, okay, but how how
Speaker 1: they're not looking to the camera, Because if you're walking
Speaker 1: down the stairs and there's a camera there, your eyes
Speaker 1: drawn to the camera. I mean, yeah, you only have
Speaker 1: to watch any news reporter doing a broadcast them outside
Speaker 1: of a state of origin match to realize that, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, that must be a flame when there's a
Speaker 1: camera involved.
Speaker 2: I reckon on the street.
Speaker 3: Though for the most part it takes you a bit
Speaker 3: by a surprise, and I think the majority of people
Speaker 3: your gut instinct is I don't want to be in this, right,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know what this is like at
Speaker 3: the state of origin or something like that. You're there,
Speaker 3: you know, for sport, and you kind of will instinctively
Speaker 3: put two and two together, which is they must be
Speaker 3: reporting on the sport.
Speaker 2: I'm into sport. I'm on the camera. But I reckon
Speaker 2: on the street.
Speaker 3: When you're just trying to go and you've got forty
Speaker 3: five minutes for lunch and you just want to get
Speaker 3: yourself a non bloody forget, and you see a camera,
Speaker 3: you think, oh god, I don't need to be a
Speaker 3: part of this, and you quickly cross the road.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're probably right. The pace certainly picks
Speaker 1: up around this at this point. You get the train
Speaker 1: and then you've got the assassination attempt on Popeye. I thought,
Speaker 1: I when I seem started, and then there's the baby
Speaker 1: in the pram right, and then the mum gets shot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I was I was waiting for almost the you know,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite movies, The Untouchable, is that they're
Speaker 1: great scene with the pram in the in the central
Speaker 1: station and and it's just such a brilliant Elliott nests
Speaker 1: you know, and Andy Garcia save Yeah. Yeah, it's brilliant
Speaker 1: and we'll definitely do that movie at one point. But
Speaker 1: I was expecting, you know, yeah, go save the baby bye, like,
Speaker 1: but again, I'm fine with the idea that they they didn't.
Speaker 1: It's like that is often what we see where you give,
Speaker 1: you know, a character who may be perceived as unlikable
Speaker 1: a hero heroic moment the show. No, even though he
Speaker 1: you know, he's racist and he does these things, let's
Speaker 1: show him, you know, his moral code maybe shining through
Speaker 1: a little bit of rising to the top because he's
Speaker 1: you know, he's going to save that baby. And they
Speaker 1: say that woman and get her to safety and then
Speaker 1: but as none of that, he hides me on a tree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, it feels like it would have
Speaker 3: been out of character to have that, like, that's not
Speaker 3: this movie, isn't it. Like if he's suddenly crouching over
Speaker 3: the woman and dragging her to safety and running out
Speaker 3: to get the baby, you're suddenly thinking is this Popeye?
Speaker 2: Or is this maybe this is what Gene Hackman would do.
Speaker 3: But Popeye just you know, he wants to whoever's shooting
Speaker 3: at him, He's going to get him. And it's and
Speaker 3: once again, that's another thing that plays into the ending
Speaker 3: as well. You know, we've already seen when we get
Speaker 3: to the end and how that plays out. We've already
Speaker 3: seen what happens when he gets shot at with an
Speaker 3: innocent bystander being shot.
Speaker 2: He is single minded and this is probably.
Speaker 3: What works for him as a cop and also what
Speaker 3: works against him.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think the guy who is sent to kill him,
Speaker 1: he says, basically, I'll take care of this in a
Speaker 1: pretty cocky way, really fucked this up. Like like if
Speaker 1: you if you're gonna say in your French, you know,
Speaker 1: in your cocky French, you know with certain amount of assurance,
Speaker 1: you know, I'll take care of this. Have a better plan, mate, Like,
Speaker 1: surely there's a better way of going up on a
Speaker 1: rooftop and try to take him out from there. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I've seen I've seen hits in movies before,
Speaker 1: and there's better. There's been better plans than this. He
Speaker 1: shut the bed on this one.
Speaker 3: Well, I think he probably overthought it because he was
Speaker 3: a cop, so we thought I'd better do this from
Speaker 3: a distance. But I have a feeling that there would
Speaker 3: have been there would have been a lot of cops
Speaker 3: coming after him, but there would have been also a
Speaker 3: lot of cops that went, oh, thank goodness, because that
Speaker 3: guy is a pain in the ass and now I
Speaker 3: don't have to deal with him anymore. So he probably
Speaker 3: overthought how to do it. Also, like you know, like
Speaker 3: you just walked up to someone in Massill. You know,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe it was home called advantage in Massai, and
Speaker 3: then from home, you just don't do things like the
Speaker 3: normal way that you would do it. That's that's how
Speaker 3: the conversation would have gone if he'd gotten back to
Speaker 3: his boss. Why did you do that? You always just
Speaker 3: walk up to them and shoot them. Sorry, I'm just
Speaker 3: I'm not in my own bed.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He didn't ever forget and then and then we're led.
Speaker 1: So basically there's a chase, and it leads to this
Speaker 1: amazing car chase which you alluded to before. No permits
Speaker 1: are given, so assistant directors helped out, but also local
Speaker 1: police helped out. Basically off duty police officers helped out
Speaker 1: to kind of keep it reasonably safe for about five
Speaker 1: blocks and then they're on there, so they shut They
Speaker 1: kept shooting outside those five blocks and that's when they
Speaker 1: were like they didn't have as much protection. We in
Speaker 1: Freakent has said that is kind of amazed it was
Speaker 1: done without anybody getting hurt or killed, which is you know,
Speaker 1: concerning and obviously wouldn't happen anymore. But it's a stunning chase.
Speaker 1: It's basically there's a camera on the front of the
Speaker 1: of the of the car that they rigged up. There's
Speaker 1: one at the back of Popeye for Popeye's point of view,
Speaker 1: and then there's one looking back at Popeye. So it
Speaker 1: just looks you know, you're right there, you feel, you
Speaker 1: feel really fucking close to it, you feel in it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it feels real, and because even the little
Speaker 3: accidents that happen in it are weighted in reality, like
Speaker 3: you know when you see you know, I've seen some
Speaker 3: great car chases in movies. But often when you know
Speaker 3: someone gets hit or whatever, there is a moment where
Speaker 3: you just this little part of your brain that thinks
Speaker 3: they're not walking out of that, how are they walking
Speaker 3: out of that?
Speaker 2: That is they have been wiped out.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty certain a seat belt wouldn't have made that
Speaker 3: much difference. Always wear a seatbelt, kids, But I don't
Speaker 3: think in that hit in particular, they're getting out of
Speaker 3: it and now able to run after someone. But every
Speaker 3: accident in this there's so many near misses, and the
Speaker 3: accidents that do happen are you know, just kind of
Speaker 3: scraping alongside another car or just you know, it feels real,
Speaker 3: which then adds to the esthetic, which makes you just
Speaker 3: feel so anxious as well, especially because we know that
Speaker 3: the train isn't going to stop, so you think, oh, no,
Speaker 3: he needs to keep driving, Like I was hoping he
Speaker 3: was going to get to the next station and get out.
Speaker 3: But he's trying to keep an eye up and it's
Speaker 3: it's amazing, Like it's one of the what top three
Speaker 3: car chases in any movie. It's that bullet, The chasing
Speaker 3: Bullet's still my favorite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, bullet Bullet was an inspiration for this. In fact,
Speaker 1: we frequent said that he wanted to you know, that
Speaker 1: was that was the blueprint and he wanted to try
Speaker 1: to outdo that. But let's say a bullet the French
Speaker 1: connection Blues Brothers, you know, and I mean one, I
Speaker 1: think they have a great car chase, but sometimes it's
Speaker 1: it's it's also what else is going on and the
Speaker 1: fact that this is happening underneath the train line, you know,
Speaker 1: where he's looking up and you can kind of see
Speaker 1: the train and like you said, we know that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not stopping at the next one is so it's
Speaker 1: it's it's so good.
Speaker 2: Story going on on the train as well, so you know.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Yeah, the car chase, it's this guy that he's
Speaker 3: chasing people suddenly realizing this dude is not right and
Speaker 3: him going to the front of the train. The poor
Speaker 3: conductor ends up having a heart attack of some sort.
Speaker 3: Like there's just so much going on up there. And
Speaker 3: then when you cut back to then it's the thrilling,
Speaker 3: visceral car chase, and there's a lot happening in that
Speaker 3: that overall scene.
Speaker 1: And that train conductor is a real train conductor. They
Speaker 1: could they weren't allowed to have anybody else. Actually, they
Speaker 1: couldn't have an actor because he actually he had to
Speaker 1: stop the train, you know, at some point. So so
Speaker 1: he was actually real, a real, a real train conductor.
Speaker 1: And the guy who gets shot also it was a
Speaker 1: real I'm not sure what they call that role, but
Speaker 1: he was. He was like a he belonged to the
Speaker 1: Actors Guild, and so he got that that that part
Speaker 1: good on him. And then they and then we get
Speaker 1: to the point where they get the car and they
Speaker 1: take it apart, and it's it's it's so it's so good,
Speaker 1: like they are really they are really taking that car apart.
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know.
Speaker 3: Even the lead up to it, of them on the
Speaker 3: stakeout and watching the car that goes around the block
Speaker 3: three times, and eventually when they start, that car stops
Speaker 3: and starts breaking into it, and then all the cops descend.
Speaker 3: And I don't know about you, but I was sitting
Speaker 3: there going, I reckon, these are just punks who have
Speaker 3: seen a car and they're just coming back two more
Speaker 3: times to check it out before they steal it. And
Speaker 3: then it turns out that the cops have made a
Speaker 3: terrible mistake. They've jumped the wrong people. So I think
Speaker 3: that adds to the anxiety when they're pulling it apart,
Speaker 3: because it's like, are you sure, Like I've already seen
Speaker 3: you make a mistake, and now you're pulling this car apart,
Speaker 3: and you're desperate to find these drugs and you are
Speaker 3: pulling everything apart like and it's quite like. I'm not like,
Speaker 3: I don't have a car, I've never driven a car.
Speaker 3: I'm not mechanically minded or anything. But I found it
Speaker 3: mesmerizing watching them just pulling it apart bit by bit.
Speaker 1: So did I I completely agree. And as much as
Speaker 1: they take it apart, boy, they put it back together nicely,
Speaker 1: don't they. I Mean, they come for the car, and
Speaker 1: we suspect that they're not going to get the car
Speaker 1: because the car's fucking total. It's been literally pulled apart.
Speaker 1: They found the drugs in there eventually, and I was
Speaker 1: at the point where I was like, well, I can't
Speaker 1: imagine where the drugs would be now, so it's a
Speaker 1: dead end. But they do, they do find them, and
Speaker 1: then when they're told that your car is ready, I
Speaker 1: was kind of half expecting then the kind of like
Speaker 1: they're playing a bit of a joke on them, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: your car's ready, and here it is and it's completely
Speaker 1: it's totaled, and it's like, well, you're arrested or you know,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. But no, it's like that the
Speaker 1: car is usually put back together. They's done a sterling job.
Speaker 2: I was gobsmacked. I thought exactly the same thing.
Speaker 3: I honestly thought it was going to end with them saying, eh, like,
Speaker 3: what have you done to our car? It's like you're nicked,
Speaker 3: But instead it comes out brand new, and I was like,
Speaker 3: holy shit, like how did Wow? Those guys really deserve
Speaker 3: my respect. They've done a great job, which.
Speaker 1: Again these days you would go, well, hang on that,
Speaker 1: they haven't that. That's going to take longer. That's going
Speaker 1: to take a week to surely do that, you know,
Speaker 1: And you know, I don't know if there's any panel
Speaker 1: beaters listening Yasney Podcasts at gmail dot com, let us
Speaker 1: know how long it would take to put that car
Speaker 1: back together. But I'm assumed it's not twenty minutes or
Speaker 1: whatever it might. It might have been an hour or something.
Speaker 3: Who knows how long they've been pulling it apart before
Speaker 3: the guys come in but we do know that once
Speaker 3: those guys get there, they've been there four hours. So
Speaker 3: depending on like you know, are we are we meant
Speaker 3: to be thinking that they're still pulling it apart while
Speaker 3: they're there, or maybe we're seeing them pulling it apart
Speaker 3: and then they come in and that's actually when they've
Speaker 3: started putting it back together.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for some reason, my mind was telling me and
Speaker 1: I might be wrong, but they were still pulling it
Speaker 1: apart while though they were in the office, So I
Speaker 1: might be wrong. But it's a remarkable, a remarkable effort.
Speaker 1: But again, a's surprise you. But it doesn't. It doesn't,
Speaker 1: It doesn't impact anything like you know, I think now
Speaker 1: it we'll be like, oh, come on, it's but I
Speaker 1: think you know, I think you set up your own
Speaker 1: culture in a film, and this is you know, if
Speaker 1: you're not worried about too much backstory, you know, for
Speaker 1: hearing you know, and then you know you forgive films
Speaker 1: because they've set up there are the rules. This is
Speaker 1: the universe we're living in, and this happened to deal
Speaker 1: with it. So we are moving on with it. We
Speaker 1: are moving on, whether you're with or you're not.
Speaker 3: So is it is it possibly just another car that
Speaker 3: looks like that, that they've put the price back on
Speaker 3: the front because there was a car in the Pound.
Speaker 3: But I don't know if that's true either, because cars
Speaker 3: back then there's there seem to be lots of cars
Speaker 3: that look very different as opposed to now where you'd say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: they just.
Speaker 1: Yeah a new one, Yeah they got it. They got
Speaker 1: a Kiya in there, they Suzuki Swift. It seemed to
Speaker 1: me that was a reasoning unique car, and if not
Speaker 1: totally unique, it was maybe more European.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, they put it back together for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon we're supposed to believe that that they've
Speaker 1: put it back together. There's a great they go across
Speaker 1: the bridge, they're waiting for them. There's a great wave,
Speaker 1: which is an image I've seen and he's often the
Speaker 1: image used when you know, if you're reading an article
Speaker 1: on the French connection, and it's that close up of
Speaker 1: Popeye waving back to our to our villains. And then
Speaker 1: we're at the warehouse and this is basically the end
Speaker 1: of the film, and it's quite extraordinary. They go in
Speaker 1: chasing the bad guys. They take one or two out,
Speaker 1: but there's the main bad guy who's he's still in there,
Speaker 1: and he well, we shoot, we shoot the other cop,
Speaker 1: which is and you know, he shoot shooting him dead.
Speaker 1: What's interesting about this is that guy, uh based on
Speaker 1: a real cop. He's in the cinema watching watching, he
Speaker 1: sees himself get killed on screen. He stands up and
Speaker 1: yelled bullshit right, and then sues for ten million dollars
Speaker 1: and then settles out of court for ten thousand or
Speaker 1: something like that. But it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing,
Speaker 1: and apparently the decided in the moment they kind of
Speaker 1: like do that. They go it be wouldn't be good
Speaker 1: to shoot that guy because he's been pain in the ass.
Speaker 1: Let's shoot him, let's take him out. Wow, So give
Speaker 1: the guy that happens, Yeah, if you've got an invite
Speaker 1: him to the premiere, at least let him know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or even give him a wait till you get
Speaker 3: to the end, mate, because you don't absolutely you miss
Speaker 3: out in the last three minutes. But I feel like
Speaker 3: that is that's one of those things where in hindsight
Speaker 3: we really get an idea of what kind of character
Speaker 3: Popeye is that you know, it's the baby, it's thought
Speaker 3: there's the woman with the baby being murdered, and he
Speaker 3: just keeps going and he has he's obviously calls the
Speaker 3: death of a cop before. And then this is the
Speaker 3: guy that's been pointing that out and been riding his
Speaker 3: ass because of what he's done in the past.
Speaker 2: Which we don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe this guy riding him is completely deserved.
Speaker 2: But he does not bat an eyelid. He just you know,
Speaker 2: he threeloads his gun.
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, yeah you can if you look for it,
Speaker 1: you can. You can probably read into it a bit
Speaker 1: of like a Okay, that's something I might have to
Speaker 1: deal with that, but I'm not going to deal with
Speaker 1: it now. But it's quite extraordinary, and you touched on
Speaker 1: it earlier with the baby in the pram. It's not
Speaker 1: this character. Yeah, other characters would would maybe if they
Speaker 1: made French connection in twenty twenty one, he would have
Speaker 1: a pop up, would have a different reaction that in
Speaker 1: that moment, or maybe he wouldn't be dead, but he
Speaker 1: would just be shot in the shoulder or something, and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, sorry, buddy, And then he goes up
Speaker 1: to chase the villain. What did and what did you
Speaker 1: make of the soprano like ending of Popeye disappearing into
Speaker 1: a back room in this warehouse and a single bullet
Speaker 1: shot being so.
Speaker 3: Just briefly before I get to that, it makes sense
Speaker 3: that he shoots that cop as well, because he nearly
Speaker 3: shoots Roy Scheider, like he nearly takes out his mate
Speaker 3: when he comes in as well.
Speaker 2: Is he's ready to shoot? Yeah, it's all done.
Speaker 3: I loved the ending, the ambiguity of the ending of
Speaker 3: him going off into that room, and then you just
Speaker 3: start getting these place cards, and the place cards telling you,
Speaker 3: like the whole operation is not one hundred percent of success.
Speaker 3: It's a mild success, but it's not enough of a
Speaker 3: success because what we learn in the very final the
Speaker 3: final panel of these guys get reassigned like they have
Speaker 3: quite clearly been on the edge before this movie ever started.
Speaker 3: They have been just keeping their jobs, just getting enough done,
Speaker 3: and then when they don't completely and utterly nail this case,
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 2: They're done.
Speaker 3: And there's a part of me so I know there's
Speaker 3: a sequel, and I have no interest in the sequel
Speaker 3: because I love this ending so much, and there's a
Speaker 3: you know how they say, we don't know if this
Speaker 3: Frenchman got away? But did Popeye shoot him and like
Speaker 3: dump him in a river or something like that? You
Speaker 3: know is or did he get away? Like the not
Speaker 3: knowing is what makes it fascinating to me.
Speaker 1: The sequel and I haven't seen it. It kind of
Speaker 1: it kind of it kind of ruins this ending for
Speaker 1: me a little bit, you know, because I because I
Speaker 1: know and maybe I should have read at least a
Speaker 1: little bit of what the sequel is about. But I
Speaker 1: know that that he got away, like because because a
Speaker 1: sequel is is Popeye for some reason with that cloudy
Speaker 1: going to France besides searching for our villain whose name
Speaker 1: is Elaine Chenier, And that's what the sequel is about.
Speaker 1: So what happened? Then? Somebody just fired off a shot
Speaker 1: that didn't land? And is that? Is that a good
Speaker 1: enough ending? Like I assume they're not doing this for
Speaker 1: a sequel, for a sequel to exist. I assume that,
Speaker 1: like they're not this. They wouldn't have known. This is
Speaker 1: when William Freakan's first films. They wouldn't have known. This
Speaker 1: is also very early Gene Hackman, and very early Gene
Speaker 1: having his first big film, as was Roy Scheiter. So
Speaker 1: it's not like these are stars and with the star director,
Speaker 1: with you know, all this faith in this project, it's
Speaker 1: going to be a franchise like this is this was
Speaker 1: a you know, Hail Mary, and and so they're not saying,
Speaker 1: I don't think they're setting up a sequel. So I
Speaker 1: knowing that the sequel doesn't exist, I I I love
Speaker 1: the ending, but because a sequel exists, I'll be like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like and that's more in hindsight, because
Speaker 1: in the moment I enjoyed it, Yeah, I must. I
Speaker 1: was a bit confused though, and I because I didn't
Speaker 1: love what I would have loved. I would have like
Speaker 1: a gunshot and maybe cut to black for a few
Speaker 1: seconds and then the place cards because I literally thought
Speaker 1: there was something wrong with my my I was streaming
Speaker 1: it on Disney.
Speaker 2: And on the Disney app.
Speaker 1: It's in a Pixar section. Surprisingly, it is on the
Speaker 1: Disney app if you're looking for it, and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: what's what's going on? Because it's just a freeze of
Speaker 1: the close up of one of the actors and then
Speaker 1: and then the title card comes the words come up.
Speaker 1: I was, ah, that's the that's the ending. Because I
Speaker 1: was fully ready. Okay, now it's the chase moment, and
Speaker 1: I'm okay not to have that moment, but I was.
Speaker 1: I just would have loved a little space of me
Speaker 1: of allowing me to kind of comprehend, shit, did pop
Speaker 1: I just get shot or did instead of like having
Speaker 1: all this information about what happened to some of the
Speaker 1: other characters. You know, there's a few seconds of me
Speaker 1: having that in my head of like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: just happened.
Speaker 2: It's funny. It's even the start of the film.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like the film started and oh
Speaker 3: it's ended, and it's it's like Freedkin just comes in
Speaker 3: hard while the story's already got a bit of momentum
Speaker 3: and finishes it where he desides he's going to finish it.
Speaker 3: I wish I hadn't looked up what the sequel was
Speaker 3: about either. I reckon, you're completely right, because I like,
Speaker 3: there's four years difference between the person and the second,
Speaker 3: and you know, there weren't really you know, you had.
Speaker 2: Bond, but there weren't really those types of movie franchises.
Speaker 3: Like I think it was a pretty big deal when
Speaker 3: Godfather Part two was that's right, so and it didn't
Speaker 3: do like I think it did all right, but it
Speaker 3: it didn't do as well. And I think the thing
Speaker 3: I read was Hackman saying, you know, four years difference
Speaker 3: is too much. But also I just like, I really
Speaker 3: loved the film and I just didn't have any urge
Speaker 3: to see Popeye again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And there was also a TV
Speaker 1: series in eighty four with Ed O'Neil TV's Ted Bundy
Speaker 1: and also obviously j for Modern Family as Popeye himself.
Speaker 1: Before we go, here's some fun facts. I've weaved some
Speaker 1: of these fun facts throughout the episode, but here is
Speaker 1: someone did get to the straw hat that he puts
Speaker 1: on the back dash of the car is taken from
Speaker 1: That's a sign apparently in New York at the time
Speaker 1: when undercover agents were on duty, so be assigned to
Speaker 1: other police officers. So if that was the case, a
Speaker 1: lot of police officers would think my parents were off
Speaker 1: of police.
Speaker 3: Police officers somewhere He's not meant to they see the
Speaker 3: straw hat. He's on the job, no worries inside and
Speaker 3: getting some cake and coffee.
Speaker 1: Apparently one of the coldest New York winters on record
Speaker 1: at the time of shooting. Was particularly it was bloody
Speaker 1: freezing so or the movie it does you feel it,
Speaker 1: don't you? Yeah? And they cut to eat it in
Speaker 1: the grass. That were advisors we mentioned, and they also
Speaker 1: went on to become they almost quit their jobs and
Speaker 1: when on become technical advisors in various Hollywood films and
Speaker 1: even appearing in some films. I think one of them
Speaker 1: either maybe had a very small role in the Godfather
Speaker 1: and at least advised on some of that as well.
Speaker 1: So and also that the car chase they cut they
Speaker 1: when they were cutting it in the editor room, they
Speaker 1: cut it to a song by Santana. Oh yes, Black
Speaker 1: Magic Woman. Yeah, yeah, it was a song I'm not
Speaker 1: familiar with.
Speaker 2: I wonder if that's been used in another movie. I
Speaker 2: do know that song. I feel like maybe it's.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but as soon as I'd heard
Speaker 3: about that, I suddenly thought of Carlito's way. That might
Speaker 3: be incorrect, but it feels like something musically from that world.
Speaker 1: Apparently if you play that to the to the car chase,
Speaker 1: very enjoyable experience.
Speaker 2: I'm told I am going to give that a crack.
Speaker 3: Actually, I am going to find that and I'm going
Speaker 3: to give that a go because that sounds fascinating because
Speaker 3: it does have a rhythm to it as well, like
Speaker 3: has a very specific feel and rhythm as to how
Speaker 3: it plays out. And it's just going to be like
Speaker 3: the gritty version of Pink Floyd to Wizard of Oz.
Speaker 1: There's also I think what was the Space Odyssey? We
Speaker 1: did that recently with Tony Armstrong and there's it was
Speaker 1: that Pink Floyd again or was another Pink Floyd song
Speaker 1: when they go through that start our gate there's a
Speaker 1: particular Pink Floyd. So I imagine if you smoke the
Speaker 1: ride drugs and listen to Pink Floyd and put onto
Speaker 1: any movie, it'll you know, it'll it'll work. It's magic somehow.
Speaker 3: On Golden Pond put with Henry Fonder and Katherine Herbert
Speaker 3: side of the movie.
Speaker 1: Yep, this is a little matter, mate. Always a pleasure
Speaker 1: to hang out and it's good to talk movies in
Speaker 1: microphones with you again after all these years. I know
Speaker 1: this podcast comes with homework. I really appreciate it. I
Speaker 1: did mention it in the intro your podcast The Big Squid,
Speaker 1: which covers a lot of really deep diving pop cultural stuff,
Speaker 1: and they did last time on The Watchmen and a
Speaker 1: whole heap of stuff. So yeah, congratulations on that leads.
Speaker 1: It's going gangbusters.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's TV, movies, books, graphic novels, music, whatever people
Speaker 3: are into.
Speaker 2: You know, we like to celebrate it. And it doesn't
Speaker 2: mean it.
Speaker 3: We don't have criticism sometimes, but we try to come
Speaker 3: at criticisms from a place of love rather than just
Speaker 3: you know, shitting on things. Unless it's the movie Shape
Speaker 3: of Water, then we're happy to.
Speaker 1: I will defend the Shape. I'll watch the Shape of
Speaker 1: Water reacter because Hughsey was going to do the Shape
Speaker 1: of Water and then and then like I got home
Speaker 1: one night, the night before we were recording, and and
Speaker 1: like eleven thirty at night, and he gets it. He
Speaker 1: leaves me a messag saying, ah, I couldn't download the
Speaker 1: Shape of Water. Can we do? I've done Pretty in
Speaker 1: Pink instead, So okay, you've done it, that have you? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna watch Pretty in Pink now. But Shape we
Speaker 1: can talk about the Shape Water another time. But mate,
Speaker 1: thanks so much. You're you're a bloody legend. You're a
Speaker 1: hell of a human being. And we'll speak against her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. Great to see your pink.
Speaker 1: There we go one an incredible talent Jean Hackman. Was
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that chat at the time with my
Speaker 1: great mate Hammo. We'll be back next week. Back on course.
Speaker 1: Apologies for those who are expecting the Josh Thompson Toy
Speaker 1: Story two episode this week. That'll be rather about next week.
Speaker 1: Of course you can see Josh on Win or Lose
Speaker 1: on Disney It picks us first TV series, so that
Speaker 1: is next week on You ain't say nothing yet, And
Speaker 1: so we leave old Pete say fan salt and to
Speaker 1: our friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant
Speaker 1: good night.