1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: What are you doing right now? I can guarantee there 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: is one thing that we're all doing in this moment, 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: breathing in and breathing out. It's something that is part 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: of our whole day every day, but it's definitely not 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: something I'm ever thinking about. Christian O'Connell thinks a lot 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: about breathing, and a week long retreat in breathwork became 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: an absolute game changer. Now. If you're not familiar with Christian, 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: he was Britain's best known and most awarded breakfast radio presenter, 9 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 1: hosting his own top rating national breakfast shows and collecting 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: more industry awards than any other presenter, and even becoming 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: the youngest radio presenter ever inducted into the UK Radio 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. But then he moved to Australia, where 13 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: nobody knew him. The Australian Radio network took a punt 14 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: on him, bringing him to Melbourne's Gold FM, a move 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: that has worked out incredibly well. Now, my chat with 16 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: Christian has been one of my favorite interviews this year. 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: I can't think of a time that I had someone 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 1: on the show who was just so raw and open 19 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: and honest about work and life and the stuff that 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: can make life really challenging at times. So we talk 21 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: about the biggest lessons that Christian has learned in therapy 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: and how he managed to overcome panic attacks that were 23 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: crippling him literally straight before he was due to go 24 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: live to air, and I even become Christian's very first 25 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: breath work client during this chat. My name is doctor 26 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of 27 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: Behavioral science Consultancy in Ventium, and this is how I 28 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: work about how to help you do your best work. 29 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: So I wanted to know what's it like to have 30 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: to be full of energy at six am in the 31 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: morning every morning when Christian hosts his daily breakfast show 32 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: on Gold one oh four. 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: Well, I don't have to be full of energy. I 34 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: don't think people want to turn their radio on in 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: the morning and sort of have that fake nervous, desperate energy, 36 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: you know, like someone trying to do an infomercial. I'm 37 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: more like a dimmer switch. I am talkative at six 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: am like this, but then who I don't need to 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 2: be yelling. So I learned that it had to learn 40 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: that lesson to be honest, because otherwise it puts you 41 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: on just terrible fake this kind of pressure. You know, 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: it's too hard to live up to that. You can't 43 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: do that. What do they actually need from me? They 44 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: need me to be present and they do need to 45 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 2: be energized. But the more I'm dialed into beforehand, and 46 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,519 Speaker 2: these are things I've learned the hard way through getting 47 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: it wrong. I've a dim breakfast radio for twenty three years, 48 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: and it's only the last couple of years I've actually 49 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: learned to have some a bit more healthy rituals before 50 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 2: a show, to check in with my intention, and when 51 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: I pay attention to that, I always have a better show. 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 2: When I struggle, it doesn't quite work, or I'm having 53 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 2: a tough time or too much self critical thought. Is 54 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 2: when I've got locked into that this isn't going well enough. 55 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 2: I need to put more energy into it. I need 56 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 2: to be ten out of ten. I'm letting myself down, 57 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: letting the show down. Oh my god. And you know 58 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: you know where that goes. 59 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely. Now, can you talk me through your pre show rituals? 60 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you'll have a film day with this, 61 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: but they work for me, and so the work works. 62 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: Now the alarm goes off in the morning, and that's 63 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: for twenty seven. And I hope you might think, why 64 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: does he set off at four twenty seven am? Any 65 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: extra minute I can be in bed, I would be, 66 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: so why wouldn't you so? Yet? Four twenty seven? The 67 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: first thing I'll do for about five minutes is I 68 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: will do some breathing energizing techniques that I've learned the 69 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 2: last couple of years, and they really really help. They vary. 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: I try not to do the same thing every day, 71 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: as you'll probably realize the more we get into this conversation. 72 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: I need I need that spontaneity. It's very important to me, 73 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: and so if it was to the same every day, 74 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: I'd get bored of it and stop doing it. So, yeah, 75 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: I do something for five minutes, but a breathing kind 76 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: of thing to get me going and energize, jump in 77 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 2: the shower, and then head to work. And here's where 78 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 2: it all starts. Actually, I guess the first thing is 79 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: the would be the breathing stuff, like five minutes. Then 80 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: that time in the car twenty five minutes to get 81 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: into the radio station. I would always listen to something 82 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: that tunes me into my heart, and either it would 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 2: be something funny or it might be a interesting podcast, 84 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: just something which kind of I guess on trying to 85 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: train myself to to find that part of me. You 86 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: know that I want to come forward to do the show, 87 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 2: and so I use that twenty five minutes. I actually 88 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: look forward to it. It's a time when I can 89 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 2: just sign at my mind down before like six am, 90 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: because when the show starts, things move quite quickly, and 91 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: I move quite quickly on and off air. So yeah, 92 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 2: I do that for twenty five minutes. When I get 93 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: into the building, I say a lot to the team. 94 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: Then I'd like to be in my studio alone by 95 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 2: myself for fifteen to twenty minutes. I will force myself 96 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: to I'll start with a blank piece of paper and 97 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 2: I just write down a word. I think what I 98 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: actually want, what I want the story today's show to be. 99 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: So it might be joyful, it might be honest, it 100 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: might be connected, whatever it is. I just I won't 101 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: try and find the word. I just let it come 102 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: through and then I kind of like I dial into 103 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 2: my intentions. I'm here to have fun, to be honest. 104 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: And then I'll go through the emails that have come 105 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 2: through since the show ended. I read all the emails, good, bad, 106 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: and everything, because there's always there might be something I 107 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: can use in them. Even if it's a story which 108 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: isn't that good, there might be a fine line at 109 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 2: the end of it. Or I always I always have 110 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 2: a look at everyone's job ties at the end of 111 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: their emails. I think there might be something in that. 112 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: I like going through all the emails. It feels like 113 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm connected to where they're at. And then Jack and 114 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: Rio come into the studio. Rio is one of my 115 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: producers and Jack is my sidekick. And then for fifteen 116 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: minutes we sort of I will say, oh, here's what's 117 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 2: happened to me. Here's a couple of ideas I've got. 118 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 2: Jack shares here's and we start to roughly a very 119 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 2: pencil blueprint for that day show. Now there'd be some 120 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: ideas that we already know that we might do on 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: a Tuesday or a Thursday. But yeah, we start to 122 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: just plot. I don't like to have too much in. 123 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,160 Speaker 2: If I see a show where there's everything planned in, 124 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: I don't want to do that show. I can't stand 125 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 2: the thought of that. I like there to be some 126 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: gaps for the spontaneity, for the magic for the unpredictable 127 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: to show up and do the show with us as well. 128 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: That's that's quite the ritual in terms of how you've 129 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: mapped that out. I find that really fascinating. I do 130 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: want to ask more about a few things there. I 131 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: want to get into breath work. And I remember when 132 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: when I read your book, no one listens to your 133 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: Dad's show, which I must say I loved, and it 134 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: was actually because of it sounds it sounds a bit weird, 135 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: but it was actually because of that book that I 136 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: was so keen to have you on the show, because yeah, 137 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: i'd heard you on the radio a little bit, but 138 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: not a lot. And your publisher sent me the book 139 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: and I thought, this looks interesting. And I try to 140 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: read at least the first chapter of books that i'm sent, 141 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: but yours just scripted me, and I read it, you know, 142 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: over a few days, and I'm like, I have to 143 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: talk to this man. And then finally enough, when I 144 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: mentioned the interview to my mom, who doesn't listen to 145 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: a great deal of radio, she said, oh, yes, Christian O'Connell, 146 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: I've heard him, and I've always thought he sounds like 147 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: a very intelligent man. 148 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: I don't get that a lot. I'll take that from you, mum, 149 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: and please thank her. She must have just heard a 150 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 2: very very small slip of the show one day where 151 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: I might actually get somewhere near sounding intelligent. 152 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: But the seriously, I loved your book, and you do 153 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: talk about your breath work in the book and for 154 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: a memory you actually mentioned I think your breath work 155 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: teacher in the acknowledgments. Can you tell me what led 156 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: you to learning breath work? 157 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: Well, I guess like most of the stuff that we 158 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: do as adults to try and bring us comfort, we'll 159 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: try and steady us because it's when you think about it, 160 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: just being a human on this strange planet, having our 161 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: strange existence. It's a lot, isn't it. As you get older, 162 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: you realize life is really odd, just being a human 163 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 2: just getting through the day. It's really odd sometimes, isn't it. 164 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 2: And I'm very lucky, isn't entitled? You know guy, that 165 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: I have a very good life. And so about seven 166 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: or eight years ago I had some very very severe 167 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: panic attacks and they only came right before my job 168 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: doing a live radio show, and my last show in 169 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 2: the UK that I had for twelve years was now 170 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: went all around the UK, and I had two and 171 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 2: a half million listeners, never had any fear about radio 172 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: or stand up or live TV. Suddenly, out of nowhere, 173 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 2: really severe panic attacks about twenty minutes before going on air, 174 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: and I guess i'd call it it was a mini breakdown. 175 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: When I look back now, it was the best thing, 176 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: one of the best things that ever happened to me. 177 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: It made me go and get help, even though that 178 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: was reluctant at first. I didn't know what was going on. 179 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 2: I remember going to see this therapist and even being 180 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: embarrassed that I'd had to go and see a therapist 181 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: that I somehow screwed up myself and my life. And 182 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: I said, I just want the panic cut out. I 183 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: remember him just laughing, like, oh, this guy is going 184 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 2: to be a field day unpacked. This guy he wants 185 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 2: the panic cut out, and he went, where is it? 186 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: I'll do it now. And so through that I also 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 2: learned breath work because I needed to, and I realized 188 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: how how with panic or anxiety or anything, focus or anything, 189 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: our breath is everything. It's the first thing we did 190 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 2: when we're born, and we start our life to be 191 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 2: the very last thing we do, and we don't breathe 192 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: very well. We don't know much about it. But I've 193 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,440 Speaker 2: learned through learning breath work is just how much it 194 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,839 Speaker 2: can change your mental, physical, your zest for life. I've 195 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 2: learned how to regulate myself ever get stressed or if 196 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: I'm tired and I need a bit of energy rather 197 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: than having caffeine. So yeah, I went away in a 198 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: week long retreat, a breath work retreat. I loved it 199 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 2: so much, went back the following year, did another week 200 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 2: and you'll love this. I'm currently doing a course. It 201 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: will take me about another four or five months to 202 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: be a breath work master so that I can actually 203 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: teach it. I would love to be teaching it next year. 204 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: Not full time. I didn't expect, but it's only because 205 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 2: it's helped me so much, so much, and I use 206 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: it every day and it makes a big difference in 207 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 2: my life. I'm like, I'd really like to be able 208 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 2: to share this with people. I've struggled so hard to meditate. 209 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 2: This feels like this is something I can do. Whether 210 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 2: it's five or ten minutes, you don't need any more 211 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: than that. It's not just that it's it's portable. I 212 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 2: can do it in the car. You know, I'm trying 213 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: to teaching my teenage daughters to help them, but they 214 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: are that age fifteen and seventeen when they're just resistant 215 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: to anything that comes to mom and dad, you know, 216 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: to want to go the other way. So I've got 217 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 2: to let them come to it their own way. But yeah, 218 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: I'm such a big fan of it. It's free, it's 219 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: very easy to learn, and they're all kinds of different 220 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: breathing techniques you can do to help bring about different changes. Yeah, 221 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 2: I do it regularly during the radio show before the 222 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: show in the car back, I said I loved it 223 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: better for it. So yeah, I'm currently I'm actually learning. 224 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 2: You know, I have to go on these calls once 225 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 2: a week. I get up even earlier and at half 226 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 2: three am I'm on a call for an hour and 227 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 2: a half with an instructor and mentor for that week's 228 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 2: homework and how I've got on and teaching him online 229 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: how I should teach somebody to do it. And I 230 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: love all that. It's really nice learning something new that's 231 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: nothing to do with what I do for a living. 232 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,599 Speaker 2: Maybe a part time thing for me next year. I 233 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: don't know how it's online or in person, but that 234 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 2: excites me doing that. I'm like, that's something new, that's 235 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: something which isn't about me or trying to be funny 236 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: or you know, sell something. It's just me trying to 237 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: share something which really really has helped me through a 238 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 2: really really tough time. And anxiety and panic attacks aren't 239 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 2: something that go away. The panic attacks I don't have 240 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: so much anymore now, but low level anxiety is something 241 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: which has still be around in my life. Hasn't defined me, 242 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: but I know the breathing really really really helps. And 243 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: a lot of people since the book came out, like 244 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: you have said, oh I've panic attacks, what helped? Getting help, 245 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 2: going to see a therapist really helped massively. And the 246 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: breathing thing that was a big difference to me and 247 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 2: will always be. 248 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: So let's just say I'm preparing to do a podcast interview, 249 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: and like, even if I've been doing it for a 250 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: few years now, I still get nervous before some interviews, 251 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: particularly where I'm going to be speaking to someone who's 252 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: been a hero of mine for years, And can you 253 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: give me something that I can do, Like in the 254 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: five or ten minutes before I'm live, what can I do. 255 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 2: First of all, why are you doing this? 256 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: Why am I doing this? Well, firstly, I'm doing it 257 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: to learn, and secondly, I'm doing it as a way 258 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: to I guess, like scale the impact that I can have. 259 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: So I'm very motivated by unpacking complex science and putting 260 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: that into simple strategies that people can use to improve 261 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: the way that they work. And for me, the podcast 262 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: came out of a natural curiosity around how did the 263 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: world's most successful people work? But also as a channel, 264 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean, podcasting is so brilliant for reaching lots of 265 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: people with their strategies and impacting as many lives as possible. 266 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: So that's why I do it. 267 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I can understand right, all that big brain stuff. 268 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 2: What feelings when it goes well or afterwards when you 269 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: go that is a groat? I really enjoyed that. What 270 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 2: is that feeling? If you had to give it a 271 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 2: value a couple of words, what is that when it's 272 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 2: going well? What is that? What does it do to 273 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 2: you on a physical level? What does it do? Does 274 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: it make you feel happy? What would you say? 275 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm just like, I'm so energized, I'm pumped up, I'm 276 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: kind of on a high. Like you know when I 277 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: learned some really cool stuff, I'm like, oh my god, 278 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: I can't wait to share that. 279 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: Right, So, now you've got that, Now you're in touch 280 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: with why you really do it. Okay, Now close your 281 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 2: eyes and think about the last chat you did where 282 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: you really felt that you know, your words, energized, connected, 283 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: and breathe in. Just close your eyes, breathe in three 284 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 2: and three your nose. It's count of five. Don't have 285 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: to be big breath, but just and then just hold 286 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: it and then breathe out slowly againto the count of five, 287 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: three your nose again, and then breathe again through your nose, 288 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: acount of five. So wait a bit and slowly out 289 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: through the nose again. Look out a five, four, three 290 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 2: two one one more round of this in through the nose, 291 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: look at the five one two, three four five, Have 292 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: a gentle smile with your mouth that's closed, and then 293 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: breathe out again. Look out of five through the nose, 294 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 2: count down five or three two one. Feel that warm, 295 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: energized glow and open your eyes And how do you 296 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: feel now? 297 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: Ah, so so good and come and just different. I 298 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: feel like I've shifted. 299 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's like thirty seconds. Anyone could do that. 300 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 2: Now you understand why I like it. It's quick, it's instant. 301 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: You don't even have to get into the woo woo 302 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: of what's happening there, don't even try to analyze it. 303 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 2: It's that's all in us. And now, if you were 304 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: to go and do a chat now, whether it's this one, 305 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: you will do it differently. You would enjoy it more 306 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: and you'll be more connected to yourself. And there you're 307 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: also be more engaged and connected to what you're actually 308 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: trying to do as well, rather than the strategy. And yeah, 309 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: I get I understand about networking and what it can 310 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 2: do for you, but that isn't really why you're doing it. 311 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: It's something else. 312 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely. H that's good. Oh, I feel like I feel 313 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: like I've just had a shift and we're on to 314 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: like act too. 315 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 2: Well, you know what, You've just become my first ever 316 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: what do they call them clients? 317 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've just been my first time protege. Let's say 318 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: prank you. Now. You mentioned therapy and you write a 319 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: lot about that in the book and your experience, and 320 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: I feel like it's something that I don't I don't 321 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: know if I've ever talked about therapy with the guest 322 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: on the show, and I'm a huge fan of therapy. 323 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm a psychologist myself, and I've spent years in therapy 324 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: and I currently see a psychologist every fortnight. And I 325 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: want to know for you, what have been the biggest 326 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: lessons or things that you've taken out of the therapy 327 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: that you've done. 328 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 2: Great question. Like I said, I was so reluctant. I've 329 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 2: don't know if it's a man thing. I think it predominantly. 330 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: Is that a bit embarrassed about having to ask for help. 331 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: We're really good at giving other people help. We're terrible 332 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 2: at asking for help, aren't we. I tell her what 333 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 2: I got from it really was compassion. When I went 334 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 2: in saying I'm having panic attacks, I can't do my job. 335 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 2: I think I'm gonna you know, I can't work with 336 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 2: any mortgage. I don't know if I can ever do 337 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: it again. It was that bad. It was about understanding 338 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: that it's not it. It's a part of me that's scared, 339 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 2: and that part of me needs to be given. I 340 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: guess compassion, listen to it and work out what is 341 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 2: what's worrying at the moment. If it had a voice. 342 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: What is it trying to say? And Darling, is that 343 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: because a lot of our critical self talk is so 344 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: judgmental and so mean, it's like an inner heckla, you 345 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 2: would never speak to someone in your life. I loved 346 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: one a colleague the way you talk to yourself in 347 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 2: the mirror. And it's learning about that and just watching that. 348 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 2: And that's a day to day, rest of my life thing. 349 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: But that I had to sum up the two years 350 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: I did, that would be the biggest takeaway for me 351 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 2: that I still use every day. Use it when I'm 352 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 2: talking to my daughters as well, is that you know 353 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 2: when they go, I'm feeling this, it's remind ourselves part 354 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 2: of you is angry right now, part of you is 355 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 2: really pissed off. And then understands you have to separate 356 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 2: that because there are many different parts of us, you know, 357 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: we all have different parts. And then actually to separate 358 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 2: from that and just go, Okay, I am angry, which 359 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 2: part of me is angry and why? And then you 360 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: can have hopefully a better dialogue with yourself and that 361 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 2: that and changes everything. 362 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: But then you're in an unusual situation where you're also 363 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: like you're drowning in feedback from listeners and people who 364 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: maybe have just listened for a few minutes, Well, see. 365 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 2: Even that isn't that interesting to use the imagery of drowning. 366 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: If I thought of it like that, I'd have a 367 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: flipp and panic attack. I can. I've learned to swim, 368 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 2: and sometimes the waves crash over me, and other times 369 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 2: I can surf on it, and yeah, I can turn 370 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 2: that on and off. On a bad day, your ego 371 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 2: gets a bit of a din because someone shoots you 372 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 2: an email and like hate this show, they need to 373 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: fire you, and you like, Then you have to remind 374 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 2: yourself that's more about them. That's someone who's having a 375 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 2: tough time moment they thought the best choice for them 376 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 2: in that morning is to find my email address, type 377 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 2: out an email, check it the spelling mistakes, click send, 378 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 2: and that is more about them. And actually, at the 379 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 2: end of the day, other people's opinions of me really 380 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 2: aren't my business. When it comes to a video show, 381 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: you know, I don't want the show to be for everyone. 382 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: I'd make a very different kind of show. I hope 383 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 2: it's some people that I like me and I put 384 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: it out there, and I hope it finds the right people, 385 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 2: and the right people find it. So yeah, I've got 386 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 2: a lot of a healthier attitude towards feedback, should we 387 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: call it than I used to. 388 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. I want to know more about that, because in 389 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 1: in your book you paint a really vivid image of 390 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: what it was like packing up your bags from the UK, 391 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: where you'd had this twenty year super successful radio career 392 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: and deciding to move your whole family to Melvin, where 393 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: you know, you really didn't know anyone except for a 394 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: handful of people in the industry, and things are really 395 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: tough when you started on air here and people were 396 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: really resistant to someone not from Melbourne doing a local 397 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: radio show. So what strategies did you use to cope, 398 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: particularly in those early days. 399 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I wish I could have an intelligent answer. Red 400 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 2: wine and spoiler alert it doesn't always help that strategy. Yeah, 401 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: I mean, look, I might as well say what I 402 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 2: am English in Australia. Suddenly, as someone in the early 403 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 2: days emailed me, no one invited you. I felt like 404 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 2: that uninvited and had I just rocked up here and 405 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 2: just put myself on a breakfast show and people like no, 406 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 2: so who I'd an English guy. We don't know him. 407 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: You're not from here. You don't know about AFL, you 408 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,119 Speaker 2: don't know about John Farnham, you don't know about barn Zy, 409 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: you don't know about Vida Crumble. And radio is built 410 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: around intimacy. Intimacy is built around connection and shared experience, 411 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: isn't it? And suddenly my accent everything didn't have that, 412 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: and so there was a bit of a disconnect. However, 413 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 2: looking back now, the single most exciting thing I've ever 414 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 2: done in my radio careers come here, because it really 415 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: really humbled me, stripped me of everything that I'd built 416 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: up over a career. When you've got a following on TV, 417 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 2: on radio, whatever, they're your people and they follow you 418 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: from a radio station to a radio station and there 419 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: you've got them, and that is amazing. I didn't have 420 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: that here. Suddenly it felt like I was starting all 421 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: over again, and I actually I needed that. I had 422 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 2: to start all over again, but differently, and that learning 423 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 2: that first year of never ending trials in my two worlds, 424 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: which was at home personal life and then at work 425 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: as well doing a radio show as an outsider. Oh yeah, 426 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 2: really hard here. But I came for a reason and 427 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: it changed my life in bigger ways and just about 428 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 2: a radio show, and that I'll always be grateful for 429 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 2: every single one of those hate emails. I'll always be 430 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 2: thankful for I will. 431 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: We will be back very soon with Christian talking about 432 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: how he got to know Melbourne through Uber Drivers, how 433 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: he gets on stuck when he has a bit of 434 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: writer's block, and we'll be talking about life quakes and 435 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: how to deal with them and the impact that they 436 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: have on our relationships with those around us. Now, if 437 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: you are not connected with me on the socials today, 438 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: you might beg the day to do so, because I 439 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: share a lot of really interesting content through a couple 440 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: of my social networks. So firstly, you can find me 441 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: on LinkedIn just search for my name amount the YMBA 442 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: and say hi that you found me through the show. 443 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: Or you can find me on Instagram at Amantha Ie. 444 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: You right about getting to know Melbourne through Uber Drivers. 445 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: Can you tell me how you did that? 446 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, obviously I had no car when we 447 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 2: moved here, my wife and I and so I had 448 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: to get to work every day and around the city, 449 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 2: and so I'd use Uber a lot. And the great 450 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 2: thing is those people are driving around a city all 451 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: the time, they know all the suburbs, and so most 452 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 2: people don't ever talk to them. They're staring down at 453 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 2: their phones. I'm suddenly wide eyed. I was a sponge. 454 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: I really wanted to get to know the city. The 455 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: more I got to know it, the more I could. 456 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: You have a better life on air and off air. 457 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: You know what areas to go and take my kids 458 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: to do I'm a wife to go and eat, or 459 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 2: let's go over here. There's supposed to be a great 460 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 2: Italian restaurant. This is where all the Italian community is about. 461 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: The food here is amazing. There's the Greek one, the 462 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: uber drivers. I would constantly say, what's this area, what's 463 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: this area called, what's it known for? Where do you 464 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: not like going? Where do you like going? Why do 465 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 2: you think this monument? What do you think of that? 466 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 2: What's the most popular place at the weekend? All this stuff, 467 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: And I was constantly just taking it all on board, 468 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 2: loaning the shorthand of a city in the UK. I 469 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: just I'd had that I know the burroughs and the 470 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 2: suburbs to make a joke about. In London, there's almost 471 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: like a punchline. I didn't have that here, and I 472 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: had to learn it as quickly as possible. And the 473 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: Uber drivers will always be very, very grateful for they're 474 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 2: up my spies. I've been spying on us all these years. 475 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 1: I love that. Now I want to talk about creativity, 476 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: and I want to know for you, how do you 477 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: get your creative juices flowing? 478 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: I do you know what I actually I hope you 479 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: will find this interesting. I don't know, but I love 480 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 2: talking about creativity because creativity isn't limited to someone like 481 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: me who writes or talks or you know, stuff like 482 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 2: that for a living, or comes up with ideas. It's 483 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 2: actually creativity. Like a friend of mine is a carpenter, 484 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: and he once made these friends of ours as a 485 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: wedding present a four poster bed. He made that from 486 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: wood and carved it all and bit by bit I 487 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 2: would go around his garage and workshop and just see 488 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 2: it looked like to me he hadn't made much progress, 489 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 2: And then suddenly there was a bed, and I was 490 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: genuinely right in all of his creativity, his focus, his craft. 491 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 2: He's had to learn and master, get wrong, still get right, 492 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: and that is creativity doing that, you know, It's like 493 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: my plumber came round and I thought I would need 494 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: a really big part that was going to cost thousands. 495 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 2: I was like, this is the last thing we need 496 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: this year. I was like, now I know I can do. 497 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 2: I can do an improvise. That's creativity. I think sometimes 498 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 2: we overemphasize the sort of creative fields, you know, of 499 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 2: writing and talking and comedy and stuff like that, and storytelling, 500 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 2: and actually creativity is in bars. You hear it at barbecues. 501 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: If there's a neighbor. A neighbor mind told me a 502 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 2: funny story the other day. He told it so well 503 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 2: in that exchange with the two of us creativity, that 504 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: the choice and the words he had without maybe realizing 505 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: it always just instinctive storyteller. So I enjoy finding creativity everywhere. 506 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 2: You see it in nature. It's all around us. It 507 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: is our nature. Everyone is creative. 508 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: So what do you do like, Because you must experience 509 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: times where you do get stuck or you've got the 510 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, metaphorical writer's block, what do you do to 511 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: get unstuck? 512 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 2: Stop looking directly at a blank piece of paper. It's 513 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: too intimidating. I'll go for a walk. Then it's out 514 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 2: of view. It's there, but it's out of view. The 515 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: amount of I get a lot of ideas just going 516 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: to walk in my dog, I talk to myself, you know, 517 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 2: and our write down idea. I got a small team. 518 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 2: I like working in a small team. I bounce off 519 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 2: them Jack and Pats who do the show with me. 520 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,359 Speaker 2: They give me ideas. They might tell me story or 521 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: just like I had an argument the other day about 522 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 2: this or what is it in the supermarket? When you 523 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 2: do that and I'm like, go, oh, I know what 524 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 2: we can do with that. Oh, I've got it reminds 525 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 2: me of so and so we could do this with it. 526 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 2: So a very reactive, very reactive as well. Like I 527 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 2: said about going through the listeners' emails, my job really 528 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: is to pay attention. That's it. It literally is what 529 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: we should all be doing. But I pay attention. So 530 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: even if that's me yesterday and being crushed when I 531 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 2: try and bond with my fifteen year old daughter and 532 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 2: I mentioned a song that i'd heard was a really 533 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 2: big hit on TikTok, and she just raised her eyebrows 534 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: because teenagers are not there to validate you, and she 535 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: just went, oh God, that came out like last year 536 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 2: and I was shot down. She gave me nothing, and 537 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: that again, I just got to pay attention to that. 538 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 2: What is it you feel? I feel embarrassed, you know, 539 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: I tried to bond with a teenager. It's so hard. 540 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's to pay attention. 541 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: After I read your book and I've you know, followed 542 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: you on social media and you share a lot of 543 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,959 Speaker 1: personal stuff about yourself, which you know, particularly I think 544 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: for a man, is fairly unusual. And you know, I 545 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: was reflecting on just you know, the idea of how 546 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: much we share about ourselves in the last twenty four 547 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: hours because I'm doing this campaign with LinkedIn at the moment, 548 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,239 Speaker 1: called change Makers, and they emailed me yesterday and they said, hey, 549 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: I know this wasn't on the on the kind of 550 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: list of deliberables, but would you mind just writing a 551 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: post for are You Okay? Day? Which is today? And 552 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: I thought, yeah, yeah, sure, I'm so happy to do that. 553 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: And I so sat down to write it yesterday afternoon 554 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: and I'm like, like, I didn't want it to be 555 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: you know, some generic like you know, ask someone if 556 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: they're okay today. You know, the world doesn't need more 557 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: of those posts. And I thought well, you know, for me, 558 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: I think the thing that I was thinking about is 559 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: the last couple of years of my life have been 560 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: quite quite challenging and stressful. So I separated from my 561 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: husband two years ago by choice and became a single parent, 562 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: and that has all sorts of challenges, and I sort 563 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: of I was always very conscious in terms of who 564 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: I bring to work. I try to be very open 565 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 1: and you know, transparent and vulnerable with my team. But 566 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: in the back of my mind, like with some of 567 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: the stresses I've had to deal with over the last 568 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: couple of years, it's like, well, you know, I don't 569 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: need to treat them as a dumping ground for my stress, 570 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 1: so i'd withhold a lot of the time. And so 571 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: I sort of I wrote the post about you know, 572 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: I guess I kind of, you know, part of me 573 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: regrets maybe not being you know, more open and more 574 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: vulnerable during the really tough times where I kind of 575 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: chose not to share because I thought that's going to 576 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: have a negative impact on the people around me. But 577 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: instead I think maybe it created more distance. And I 578 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: think about like the choices that you've made in terms 579 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: of how much you share about yourself, and I want 580 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: to know, how do you decide what's okay to share? 581 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: And perhaps you know what you don't share. 582 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, once more, a brilliant question. And I would just 583 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: say to you, just thank you for sharing. What you 584 00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 2: just did. Is that often when we're going through a 585 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: really tough time, and that is I had this great 586 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 2: phrase recently, life quake, an earthquake in our lives and 587 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 2: that lovely life quake. Our lives will give us life quakes. 588 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: They just will. That's just inevitable, what that is. We've 589 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 2: all felt those already. You don't get to have a 590 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 2: life without life quakes. And you've had a couple there after. 591 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 2: When we're right in that, when we're right in it, 592 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 2: we don't know we're in the middle of it. We 593 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 2: don't know if we're near the end of it. And 594 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 2: actually we don't have a very good connection to ourselves, 595 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: do we. So it's really hard. If you haven't got 596 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: a good connection to yourself and a good ongoing conversation, 597 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 2: a kind one with yourself, there's no way you can 598 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 2: have it with somebody else. So you were just struggling 599 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: to get yourself of the day, let allowing it. Knowing 600 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 2: how to open up a conversation with somebody, and you know, 601 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 2: I get this at work as well. I used to 602 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: think that being a team leader, which I am of 603 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: my team, was about being superhuman and actually bringing you 604 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: know the right time when it's appropriate. But vulnerability and 605 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 2: honesty actually connect you to your team on a much 606 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 2: deeper level than let's do this, let's do that. Here's 607 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 2: the next big thing we're going to do. That's far 608 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: more important. So yeah, those life quakes when you're in them, 609 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: But in terms of what to share and how much 610 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: I think sometimes, I mean, I did share in the 611 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: book about the panic attacks and therapy, just so you understand, 612 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: I'd never told anyone other than my wife about No 613 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 2: one knew about that. My mom and dad didn't know. 614 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 2: I had to tell them a week before the book 615 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: came out. I hadn't told anyone in eight years. My 616 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 2: best friend when he read the book, rang me in tears, 617 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: going I knew we were hanging out. Then you could 618 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: have said something I could have done. I could have done, 619 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: but like you, in that moment, that life quake, I 620 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: was terrified. I was gripping onto everything. And as a man, 621 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 2: you know, no sex, no gender, has it easy in life. 622 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 2: But as a man, I think we can all agree 623 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 2: we're not raised to trust our emotions and to know 624 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 2: how to share them. You're actually taught not to do that. 625 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: It's dangerous. You can't you trust people with your emotions. 626 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 2: They might use it against you, techning Mickey out of you, 627 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: shame you and make you feel ashamed. So suddenly, when 628 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: you do have a life quake, you actually haven't got 629 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: a lot of the skills. You don't know. You feel 630 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 2: like you're weak. I did. That's why I resisted going 631 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: to therapy and actually getting help. And so the book 632 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 2: came out. Really of my daughters start to have tough times, 633 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: and my wife said, why don't you tell them, you know, 634 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: about your panic attacks? And I, oh, oh, I don't know. 635 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: You know, I don't think they need to know that 636 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: their dad's weak. And they went, well, what you're trying 637 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 2: to tell them at the moment? You keep trying to 638 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 2: tell them that it's human to struggle, which is what 639 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 2: they were doing. And one day I was trying to 640 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 2: connect with my daughters who was having a really tough 641 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,520 Speaker 2: time settling into a new school in here in Australia, 642 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 2: and I was going, you know, it's and I was 643 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: giving her the lecture and she just looked at the 644 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 2: eye and said, what do you know? And so I 645 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 2: should have said, I do know about my own, but 646 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 2: my own story with this, it's not yours, but here's 647 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 2: my I didn't. I kick quiet, and that's and I thought, 648 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: do you know what I'm going to tell the story now? 649 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: I'm not going to have in the shadows anymore. I 650 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: need to share this with my kids. And it came 651 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 2: through the conversations and what that brought us. That's when 652 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 2: I start to think, well, maybe I'd been asking a 653 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 2: couple of times, you should write a book about what 654 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 2: it was like to come to Australia the side of 655 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 2: the world, and start again, what do you write? And 656 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 2: I'd resisted it because it felt pretty boring. That story, 657 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: I don't know, it doesn't interest me. Now I had that, Oh, 658 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 2: if I'm going to tell that story, I've got to 659 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: take them back eight years to ha them panic attacks, 660 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 2: because if I didn't have them, didn't get help, didn't 661 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: pay attention to what was really going on, I'd lost 662 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: my mojo and start asking questions, why have I lost 663 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: my mojo? What would get it back? What am I 664 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 2: really needing right now in my life, I wouldn't have 665 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 2: come to Australia. And so that's why I wrote the book. 666 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 2: I wanted to share it, and I was terrified about 667 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: sharing it, and several times I said to my life, 668 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 2: I can't. I'm not going to put the book out there. 669 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: I really think I'm over sharing. I'm talking about therapy. 670 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 2: I think the listeners are going to think I'm weak, 671 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: you know. And I remember the week before the book 672 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 2: came out, there was a profile in the newspaper on 673 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 2: me and it mentioned anxiety in the headline, and I 674 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 2: remember it was a Sunday. I remember throwing the newspaper 675 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: at the floor and I started to cry. I was 676 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: I felt ashamed. I'd used to seeing a picture of 677 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 2: myself in the newspaper along the words with success or 678 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 2: you know, something like that. I didn't want to. I 679 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,800 Speaker 2: couldn't see myself like that was Oh God, what have 680 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 2: I done? And she was forty eight hours before the 681 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 2: book coming out, and my wife looked to me like, 682 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: this is the start of it. The book yet strap 683 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 2: in and I remember, I, you know, almost starting to 684 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 2: have a full blown panic attack. And I had to 685 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 2: go back and do my breathing and paying attention. You're 686 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 2: sharing the story. You can't control how it's going to 687 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: be received. And I remember I found the first couple 688 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 2: of interviews, it's all what anyone want to talk about. 689 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: You've read that. It's only about ten percent of the 690 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: book about the panic attacks at the beginning, and then 691 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: we'd go on to the rest of it. But it's 692 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 2: all anyone want to talk about, and it kept almost 693 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 2: bringing them on going back into it. But then something 694 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: really life changing happened, and I would get the I 695 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 2: was getting these emails and people who were stunned that 696 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 2: I'd been that honest in it. And all I was 697 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: getting from men and women was I had no idea, 698 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 2: here's my story or thank you for saying that. I 699 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 2: just presume that people like you don't get it. You know. 700 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 2: It was a story of hope mine and I guess 701 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 2: we need that in the world, don't we. And yeah, 702 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 2: I was terrified of sharing that. I'm used to sharing 703 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: stories where I can control where people laugh. This is 704 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: one I couldn't and that really that was a radical, 705 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 2: massive shift for me. I was, ah, yeah, so I 706 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 2: do know what it's like to risk yourself and sometimes 707 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 2: when we risk ourselves, what actually comes back is it's 708 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: greater connection, far greater connection. And actually, I think we 709 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 2: connect to each other when we hear stories of overcoming 710 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 2: tough stuff and even just being honest about it and 711 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 2: saying I went through this, because all people really feel 712 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 2: is I, oh you too. Everyone struggling in their own 713 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: different way, in some shape or form. It's what it 714 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 2: is to be a human, to be honest. So it's 715 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: been life changing, really has in small ways, you know, 716 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: But those are the important ways, aren't they? In life? 717 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 2: The small ways. 718 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: Something that caught my attention in your book that just 719 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: popped back into my mind is the death watch. You 720 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: were a death watch for three days, and I have 721 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: to ask you about, like why and what happened. 722 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 2: Yes, death watch is a watch and you are put 723 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 2: into it your age, your your activity levels, and it 724 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 2: crunches an algorithm and lets you know roughly when you're 725 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 2: going to die, and it then starts counting down backwards 726 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: until your death. And so you look at it and 727 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 2: you go, oh my god, time sticking away. I already 728 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: lost five minutes doing this. I thought it would make 729 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: me stop wasting time and be a wake up call. 730 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: All it does is it's stain traffic. Looking at it 731 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 2: going three minutes closer to death. It raised my stress 732 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 2: was it was bringing me closer to death, closer than 733 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 2: the countdown. I remember. It became very problematic in my marriage. 734 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: My wife will be talking to me, you know, talk 735 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 2: about some arguments she'd had with her friend Marie, and 736 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: I'd be looking at a death watch, going this is 737 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 2: another flip in five minutes until I die, and my 738 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: wife would get really annoyed going that watch, and then 739 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 2: one day she just stamped on it. She broke it. 740 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 2: One of the best things, many great things. My wife 741 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,320 Speaker 2: is done when we're breaking that death watch. What a 742 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 2: crazy idea for someone like me that overthinks anyway. 743 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: Totally, Oh my gosh. Now I did. When I was 744 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: preparing for this interview, like two months ago, because we 745 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: were meant to do it a little hot. I was. 746 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: School was open because we weren't in lockdown in Melbourne 747 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: like we both are now. And when I would drive 748 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,879 Speaker 1: my daughter to school she's seven and a half, I'd 749 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: put on your show, The Christian O'Connell Show on Gold 750 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: one O four and I explained to Frankie, I'm going 751 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: to be interviewing this guy, like what questions do you 752 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,399 Speaker 1: think I should ask him? And at that point in time, 753 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: I think a song from Trolls came on. It might 754 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: have been like a Cyndi law for song that's in Trolls. 755 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: And so Frankie's question for you is do you like 756 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: the movie Trolls? 757 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 2: I do. I love kids movies. They're beautiful, aren't they? 758 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 2: The ones we grew up with? And then the ones 759 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 2: that come along now, the ones that come along now 760 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: are masterful bits of storytelling. I love the movie Trolls. 761 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 2: I would like to ask your daughter why if she 762 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 2: had to tell me one line, one sentence why she 763 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 2: loves that movie, what would she say? I'd love to 764 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 2: know what it is she really loves about it. 765 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: I will ask Kara and I. 766 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 2: If you could then report back to me. I do 767 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: like the movie Trills, assure her. 768 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: Now Christian for people that want to consume more of 769 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: what you're doing and get the hands on. No one 770 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: listens to your dad's show, which I cannot recommend highly enough, 771 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: does thank you. It's just it's so brave and inspiring 772 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 1: and like it's grip. It's a griffing read I was 773 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: just completely enthralled. What is the best way for people 774 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: to do all of that? 775 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 2: I will say that I also say to you, I 776 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 2: think that there is a great story and book in you. 777 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 2: I'll say this to you as a bit of dispersonal advice. 778 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 2: Whether or not you want to share this is entirely 779 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,759 Speaker 2: up to you that feeling. When you're worried that you're 780 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 2: over sharing, you're not. You're actually putting into the world 781 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 2: what's really really needed from you. Often what we are 782 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 2: worried and think we need to hold back is actually 783 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 2: a thing that's most it's most magical about us, that 784 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: people really really really need more than any other part 785 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 2: of us. So I don't know what that might stir 786 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 2: up in you or nothing, probably, but just hearing your 787 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 2: story what you've been through, I'd like knowing, Yeah, that's scripping. 788 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,760 Speaker 2: I'd like to know about what how are you balancing 789 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 2: that and work and what you do Now, that's a 790 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 2: book I'd love to read where you talked about that. 791 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 2: That'd be really interesting. 792 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: Thank you, Christian. I will take that. I'm actually working 793 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,880 Speaker 1: on a book for Penguin at the moment. It is 794 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: certainly has nothing to do with that, but maybe that'll 795 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: be the next book. Maybe I'll pitch that to them. 796 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: So Christian back to you. How can people connect with you? 797 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: Oh, you can find me hanging around working around on Instagram, 798 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 2: mister Christian O'Connell. You can know where you find your 799 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 2: radio shows or podcast. You can google the book, you 800 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 2: can buy it in the shops, and you can get 801 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 2: it online book Topia, Amazon, support your local bookshops, magical places. Yeah, 802 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 2: thank you very much for the chance to have a chat. Really, 803 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 2: and just I've really enjoyed talking to you. I loved 804 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 2: all your questions. 805 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That's high praise coming from you. Well, 806 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: I've just I've love this time to get the Christian. 807 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. 808 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 2: I'm blessed. It's been the high light of my day. 809 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 2: Thank you. 810 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: Hello there, I hope you liked my chat with Christian. Now, 811 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: if you know someone else that you think would enjoy it, 812 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 1: I'll get something out of it. Why not share this 813 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: episode with them? That is one of the ways that 814 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 1: How I Work has now grown to over two point 815 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 1: five million downloads. 816 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 2: So thank you. 817 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: If you are someone that has shared How I Work 818 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 1: with someone else in your life. Now, if you are 819 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,239 Speaker 1: not a subscriber or follower of How I Work, hit 820 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,279 Speaker 1: subscribe or follow wherever you're listening to this, because next 821 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: week I'm so excited to share my interview with Leanne Moriarty, 822 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: the best selling author of Big Little Eyes and Nine 823 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: Perfect Strangers. And as you may or may not know, 824 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: in October, How I Work is focusing on wellness at work, 825 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: and with Leanne, we'll be talking about Tashi deals with 826 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: that voice in her head telling her that she is 827 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: not good enough. How I Work is produced by Inventium 828 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for 829 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: this episode was Jennakoda, and thank you to Martin Nimba 830 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: who does the audio mix for every episode and makes 831 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: everything sound awesome. See you next time