1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: As we heard earlier in the week, concerns have been 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: raised about pressure on police watchhouses, with the Northern Territory 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: Police Association saying the Palmerston Watchhouse is overflowing, mostly with 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: corrections prisoners who are no longer supposed to be housed there. 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: Nathan Finn joined us on the show last week, saying 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 1: that he fears it's only a matter of time before 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: there's a death in custody, with the pressures also impacting 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: police frontline capabilities. Now joining us in the studio to 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: talk more about the situation and more generally about how 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: things are being managed across corrections is the Deputy Commissioner 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: Kimberly McKay. Good morning to you. 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: Kim, good morning, thanks for having me. 13 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. Now there are well, 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: I guess are there still corrections prisoners at the Palmerston Watchhouse. 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: I had thought that with that extra capacity coming online, 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: the watch houses were handed back to police, but it 17 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: seems that that that's not entirely the case. 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 2: In anyways. Yes, Katie, So the environment has been handed 19 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 2: back to police and we've withdrawn our staff from acting 20 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 2: in that space. And the reality is, whilst people get 21 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: processed through court. They only become under our control when 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: they engage in our facilities and they're handed over to us. 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 2: So we do need to work through a process of 24 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: transitioning custody from the police to us. But at the moment, yes, 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: police are managing people who would be suited to our 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: environment and should be in our environment at this point 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: in time. 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: And is it just a situation right now where it 29 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: is a capacity thing. I mean, you know, we obviously 30 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: I'm assuming Corrections, you know, are doing the best that 31 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: they can, but you can only do so much with 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: the space you've currently Gosh. 33 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. You know, Corrections is working around the 34 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: clock to expand our capacity. It's been high on our 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: agenda and is maintained high on our agenda from right 36 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: at the start of this challenging period that we entered into. 37 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: You know, for example, the Darwin Correctional Center has been 38 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 2: running at capacity through this whole whole time, with prisoners 39 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: housed in locations that we would say is not our 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: priority locations, so for example, prisoner reception, where prisoners are 41 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: there through the nighttime and then during the day decanned 42 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: into the main part of the prison to engage in 43 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: other activities and then put back into there. So yeah, right, 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: so the prison is full. 45 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: So literally in when you say prisoner reception, that's like 46 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: the reception area ordinarily where somebody where a visitor or 47 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: you know, somebody might come in. 48 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: It's where we would hold prisoners as we do our 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: admission processes and where we transition people through our environment 50 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: out to courts on the daily basis. So it's a 51 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: it's a high movement area during the daytime and it's 52 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: very much an additional location for us to hold people. 53 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: So our assurance to our police colleagues is that we 54 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: are running our infrastructure at capacity. We're not holding back 55 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: beds and hence the work that we're doing out at 56 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 2: Bhrama Correctional Center. 57 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: I mean, as you've touched on there, the use of 58 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: the Palmerston Watchhouse, it's not ideal, I guess in any way. 59 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: It's not ideal in terms of you know, the police 60 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: juggling that, in terms of those those corrections prisoners being 61 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: in there and it being very crowded. I mean, what 62 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: do you have any idea how much longer it's going 63 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: to be required. 64 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: That it's used. Yeah, So I mean at the moment 65 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: there's sixty people in the Partminston Watchhouse and overall today 66 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 2: we've got about one hundred and eight people in watchhouses 67 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: across the territory. So our core objective is to move 68 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: those people into locations where we can provide the services 69 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: that we deliver as a correctional model Darwin Correction sorry, 70 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: the Bhrama Correctional Center. You know, we originally plan to 71 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: open that with two hundred people. Today we've got four 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: hundred and ten beds in that location, and as we 73 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: transition into August, which is our next phase of growth 74 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: in there, we'll be lifting that facility up to about 75 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 2: six hundred and fifty beds. So our attention is well 76 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: and truly in August to reduce the pressure on the 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: police watchhouses that they're managing, but also to move to 78 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: a position where we can start to relieve some pressure 79 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: on our own system as well. 80 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: Kim, in terms of the Palmerston Watchhouse, why is it 81 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: the case that police have to look after those corrections prisoners. 82 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think this is really about the system 83 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: in general. So people get process through court, they are 84 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 2: reminded to custody and the remand Order will say that 85 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: they're reminded to the custody of corrections, so they remain 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: in the police watchhouse until we can make available space 87 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: for them and transition them across to our facility. 88 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: Can you tell us at the moment, you know, across 89 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: our correctional facilities across the Northern Territory, do you have 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: any of those up to date numbers in terms of 91 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: just how many prisoners we've got at the moment. 92 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, so today we're two eight and forty nine people 93 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: in custody. 94 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: Is that a record? It sounds like a very very 95 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: close to a heigh yep. 96 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 2: And I think the important part of that for your 97 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: listeners is that one three hundred and ninety of those 98 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,280 Speaker 2: are on. 99 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: Remand yeah, they're big remand numbers, and I guess it. 100 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: You know, it demonstrates to our audience as well the 101 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: broader issue of trying to get people through the court 102 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: system more quickly, and that's obviously an issue for the 103 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: government in terms of One of the other things that 104 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association had raised with us last 105 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: week was the fact that police officers are then transferring, 106 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: you know, some of those being held in the watchhouse 107 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: then to the court. How come, that's a job that's 108 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: being done by them rather than correctional staff or the 109 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: G four S contractors. 110 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that would be relatively normal process. So 111 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: the G four S contractors would be managing what they can, 112 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: the correction staff will be transferring people all the time, 113 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: which talking about large amounts of movements. So for example, 114 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: the Holtz facility, the Darwin Correctional Center, that would be 115 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 2: exceeding one hundred movements through its watch house today. So 116 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 2: we're talking about a large logistical model which generally takes 117 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: a lot of people to navigate. An if genuine interest 118 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: is to get people through the courts as fast as possible, 119 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: that relationship that we maintain with police and gfours and 120 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: our correctional staff is really important. 121 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: How are things going at the moment in terms of 122 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: the G four S contractors and also with I understand 123 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: we've still got some South Australian officers, do we. 124 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: Yes, we've got six South Australian officers and we're in 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: regular contact with South Australia. We're grateful for their support. 126 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: Their commitment is to support us with those six resources 127 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 2: through to the end of the year. 128 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: At this stage, kim I mean, when you look at 129 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: the ever growing number of prisoners that we've got, I mean, 130 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: you guys are obviously corrections trying to increase the prison capacity. 131 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: Just give us a bit of an idea where things 132 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: are at with the new beds the infrastructure coming online 133 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: as well. 134 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the next really big step for us is 135 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: obviously the Behramer Correctional Center in the month of August, 136 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: where like I said, we'll push that out to six 137 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: point fifty. We've got continue plans to grow the Behram 138 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: Correctional Center in its heyday for adult custodial that was 139 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: sitting up around that thousand mark, and so we know 140 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 2: that there's some capacity in there that we can move 141 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: to should we need to. Those works are well and 142 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 2: truly underway, and additional works we've got across the system 143 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 2: is out at the Darwin Correctional Center. In the next 144 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 2: few weeks we'll be starting on the transition of a 145 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: unit out there we call Sector eleven, which is an 146 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 2: external unit to build that capacity into a women's precinct. 147 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 2: So we'll have a women's dedicated women's precinct outside the 148 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: main wire, hopefully up and running around November. And we've 149 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: got a considerable amount of work underway Alice Springs around 150 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: the setup of the Alice Springs Youth Attention Center, as 151 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,119 Speaker 2: we've committed previously to convert that over to a women's prison, 152 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 2: which will be up and running towards the end of 153 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: the year for about ninety women. 154 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: How big a difference will that make from your perspective 155 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: in terms of managing those prisoner numbers. 156 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 2: These are really huge step forwards for the territory. You know, 157 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: the capacity for us to run independent modeling for women 158 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: is critical not only from a safety perspective, but from 159 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: a rehabilitation perspective as well, and those services can only 160 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: delivered when they're outside of the stresses of a male 161 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 2: dominated environment. And this is the you know, this is 162 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: the opportunity, and we're taking the opportunity with both hands 163 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 2: to really reform that piece of our business. 164 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: Kim. I know one of the things that people will 165 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: be thinking as are hearing about all of these additional 166 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: beads coming online and the number of prisoners that we've got, 167 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: is how are we staffing at you know, like in 168 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: terms of the increased numbers. And I know that over 169 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: the years and certainly over the last few months, We've 170 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: had quite a bit of interaction with correctional officers saying 171 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: that they are understaffed and that there's been dangerous situations 172 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: at times as well. So how do you deal with 173 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: all of that? 174 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think it is a complex scenario. You know. 175 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: Now we're a really large employer corrections for the territory. 176 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: We've got about seven hundred and fifty correctional offices employed 177 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: by us. The considerable amount of growth in our recruitment 178 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: is the admiration of the country, to be honest, and 179 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: when I talk to my colleagues across other jurisdictions. We've 180 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 2: got a team at the moment heading over to New 181 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: Zealand to do some recruitment in New Zealand, and we've 182 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: had some really good success in Alice Springs around around 183 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 2: creating opportunities for our key week colleagues to come over 184 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: and bring us experience. We've done a little bit of 185 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,079 Speaker 2: work in the UK system, you know, and looking at that, 186 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: so our capacity to expand our reach and really bring 187 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: people into the territory is a huge piece of work 188 00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: we're working on. 189 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,079 Speaker 1: By Commissioner Kimberly McKay really appreciate your time this morning. 190 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Thank you very much for joining us on the show. 191 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.