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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers now, And there's

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Speaker 1: also been kind to ourselves. You don't have to as

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Speaker 1: a parent be there all the time. It can be

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Speaker 1: a quality of engagement, so you don't have to spend

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Speaker 1: three hours a day with your kids. It's focused. Time

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Speaker 1: with your kids is what they want. And now here's

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Speaker 1: the stars of our show, my mum and dad.

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Speaker 2: Gooday.

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Speaker 3: This is doctor Justin Coulson, a doctor of psychology, founder

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Speaker 3: of Happy Families dot com, dot you, and the author

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Speaker 3: of six books about making families happy. Here with Kylie, Hey,

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Speaker 3: mum to our six kids.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 3: Number one podcast co hosts for parenting and family in

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Speaker 3: the country. I made that sound really clunky, but will

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Speaker 3: you made.

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Speaker 4: Me sound really good. I'm the number one co host.

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Speaker 3: It's a number one parenting family podcast in the country,

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Speaker 3: and you're the co host of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: That sounds good.

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Speaker 4: I do. I'm really happy with that.

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Speaker 3: Hey. Every Wednesday we have a conversation with somebody who's

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Speaker 3: got something to contribute to our lives about how to

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Speaker 3: be better parents, how to be more intentional, to give

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Speaker 3: us new perspectives and today, we're talking to somebody who

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Speaker 3: I think has got an extraordinary array of both experience

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Speaker 3: and research to help us out. His name is Jeremy mcveen.

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Speaker 3: He is the founder of an organization or a group

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Speaker 3: or a movement, let's call it a movement called the Fatherhood,

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Speaker 3: and he joins us now. By the way, he's written

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Speaker 3: a book about fatherhood with perspectives from Can I drop

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Speaker 3: some names go for perspectives on fatherhood? From David Beckham,

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Speaker 3: Hugh Jackman, Mark Wahlberg, Ben still a Guy, Pias Osha Gunsberg.

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Speaker 3: I could keep on going, John Crasinski.

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Speaker 4: That's a mouthful.

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Speaker 3: It's a pretty impressive list, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: It really is.

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Speaker 3: Let's get Jeremy to join us now and find out

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Speaker 3: about the fatherhood and fatherhood more generally.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Jeremy, it's an absolute pleasure. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me tell us about the fatherhood. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and myself and to other dads. Luke and Andrews started

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Speaker 1: the Fatherhood a couple of years ago, and we did

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Speaker 1: it off just seeing the change happening around us that

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Speaker 1: d has now spent like it's actually three times more

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Speaker 1: any more hours with their kids every week than our

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Speaker 1: parents did, than our fathers did. So there's a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of change happening out there, and we wanted to

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Speaker 1: capture it and tell the stories and perspectives of that change.

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Speaker 3: So I'm really curious about this three times more. I

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Speaker 3: know that my dad, I mean, geez, all he did

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Speaker 3: was work, bring home the bacon, right, I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: that's what Dad's always did. I know that As a dad,

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Speaker 3: I still work crazy hours, but I try to be

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Speaker 3: his hands on as I can with our six kids.

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Speaker 1: It's tricky.

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Speaker 3: What does the research tell us about dads doing this?

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Speaker 3: Why are they doing it? Why has this shift happened?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's this huge opportunity now because gender roles

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Speaker 1: in society are shifting, and that really plays out in parenting.

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Speaker 1: So as a perspective on that, my dad had three kids,

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Speaker 1: I've had three kids. My dad wasn't at the birth

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Speaker 1: of any of his kids. There was no option. I

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Speaker 1: was going to be the birth of all of mine.

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Speaker 1: So just in one generation, there's this There these opportunities

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Speaker 1: dad's to be involved, where that becomes really a huge

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Speaker 1: pressure that we're all that all the parents out there

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Speaker 1: and managing is they're not working any less exactly to

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Speaker 1: your point. Justin so, it's not like dads are working less,

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Speaker 1: it's just they're now trying to be more involved with

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Speaker 1: their families and manage this balance. So we love talking

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Speaker 1: about that because this generation of parents are trying to

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Speaker 1: work it out together. So there's no rule book. We're

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Speaker 1: trying to work out how do we communicate with partners,

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Speaker 1: how do we manage flexible work in order to balance

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Speaker 1: this thing and make the most of this opportunity that

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Speaker 1: we've got as parents in this generation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it can be really tricky. Now I want

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Speaker 3: to talk about the Fatherhood the book, So you've got

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Speaker 3: you've got the organization. Actually we should be we should

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Speaker 3: clarify what does the movement the fatherhood actually do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what we do we started as a website

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Speaker 1: the dash father dash hood dot com telling these perspectives

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Speaker 1: is support an inspiration for dads that are getting involved

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Speaker 1: and therefore better for their kids because dads are more

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Speaker 1: involved and better for their partners because they're sharing the

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Speaker 1: load domestically. So started a website, social media and Facebook, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and then Murdock Books are publishers. So what we're doing

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Speaker 1: said came to look Let's do a book for Father's Day.

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Speaker 1: Let's do a celebration of this, this significant shift, and

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Speaker 1: that lead to the book.

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Speaker 4: Tell us about the book, Jeremy, We've listed a whole

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Speaker 4: heap of really big names.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So what happens in this space is we we

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Speaker 1: find that parenting is the ultimate leveler. And Andrew, one

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Speaker 1: of our founders, actually was on a boat I'll do

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Speaker 1: some name dropping believing with Thor and Jason Bourne and

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Speaker 1: chatting about parenting. And it was one of the things

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Speaker 1: that inspired what we're doing because he walked away from this.

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Speaker 1: He was on a junket kind of thing. Did you

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Speaker 1: say he was on a boat with four Yes. I

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Speaker 1: was going to say, was not real, don't you.

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Speaker 5: He wasn't in his characters in Wardrobe, Jason Vourne, they're

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Speaker 5: not real people, I like to think. So sorry, I

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Speaker 5: didn't mean to get you off.

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Speaker 3: So he was on a boat with Chris Hemsworth and

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Speaker 3: Matt Damon as you are as you do every Saturday afternoon. O.

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Speaker 1: I know. So there's a couple of big names there,

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Speaker 1: and we actually tell this story the book. And Andrew says, look,

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Speaker 1: he was he was talking with these super superstars but

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Speaker 1: parenting becomes this ultimate level no matter what their status

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Speaker 1: is and what their income is. Yeah, it changes, It

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Speaker 1: changes your circumstances, there's no question. But yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: talking with Chris Hemsworth about minimizing screen time, screen time

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Speaker 1: with the kids and these kind of things that we

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Speaker 1: all chat about and ignited this thought within us. There's

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Speaker 1: this great level out there and we can tell those stories,

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Speaker 1: and like you're saying, talk to celebrities, let's people who

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Speaker 1: are interested in that. So get perspectives from celebrities and

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Speaker 1: gets perspectives from everyday dads and bring them all together

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Speaker 1: and really celebrate what's going on out there. It's a

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Speaker 1: pretty exciting.

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Speaker 4: I'm wondering if you can share with us, Jeremy, what

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Speaker 4: were some of the big messages that came out of

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Speaker 4: those conversations and perspectives.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's heaps. So there's some really common themes

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Speaker 1: I got to say in the various perspectives, and that

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Speaker 1: is about this this chant that dads today have that

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Speaker 1: their fathers didn't. And that's why we actually called the

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Speaker 1: book that's the Fatherhood. But the byline is inspiration for

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Speaker 1: the new dad generation because it's a real pad on

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Speaker 1: the back and a high five to dads that are

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Speaker 1: rolling up the sleeves and having a crack out there

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Speaker 1: and getting more involved in their family life. Mark Wahlberg

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Speaker 1: is one that comes to mind for me. He talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about action spect loud on the words, so

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Speaker 1: so it's what you do, so what that kind of

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Speaker 1: role modeling. So these little kids are watching what you do.

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Speaker 1: So he talked about that being something that is really

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Speaker 1: important to him. Was really there's a really interesting interview

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Speaker 1: in there with Paul Ruse and his son, Dylan Ruse,

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Speaker 1: so he get this father's son perspective. Dylan works in

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Speaker 1: the men's health space and inspiring younger men to have

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Speaker 1: a sort of new version of masculinity, and it was

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Paul Ruse, you know, inspired a well known

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Speaker 1: leader here in this country just there there. You know

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Speaker 1: how he wants to be as a dad and as

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Speaker 1: a and how it uses both of those, both of

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Speaker 1: those things together, the perspectives of leading his family and

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Speaker 1: leading a footy club as an example.

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Speaker 3: Jeremy, what did you learn about dads that you didn't

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Speaker 3: know before? Because I mean writing a book, they call

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Speaker 3: it research, but I actually prefer research because you can

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Speaker 3: learn so much about yourself when you're writing these books.

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Speaker 1: The biggest thing I've learned in producing the book and

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Speaker 1: all the work we're doing with the fatherhood is we

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Speaker 1: do have this opportunity to pick kids up from school

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Speaker 1: and the pandemics really throwing that on its head again

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Speaker 1: further working flexibly, but a lot of the time dads

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Speaker 1: aren't taking it. So when we get in rooms and

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Speaker 1: to run workshops with dads and talk about this, the

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Speaker 1: biggest thing I've learned is this in built kind of

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Speaker 1: I must provide kind of stuff. Old school versions of

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Speaker 1: what it is to be a dad are still ingrained

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Speaker 1: in us from generations of role modeling. So myself included thought,

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Speaker 1: you go and earn a lot of money and not

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Speaker 1: make the best of this opportunity to ahead of us.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I've learned is we've got a long

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Speaker 1: way to go. We can provide flexible work, we can

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Speaker 1: provide equal paid print to leave these sort of structural things,

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Speaker 1: but until we make it feel really safe and right

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Speaker 1: for dads to be sharing the domestic load, they won't.

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Speaker 1: So I've got a long way to do there to

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Speaker 1: role model working flexibly and make it really feel normal

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Speaker 1: for dads to be involved in that way.

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Speaker 3: In just a sec we're going to explore a bit

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Speaker 3: more about the life of the founder of the Fatherhood,

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Speaker 3: or one or three founders of the Fatherhood, Jeremy mcveahin,

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Speaker 3: and what it's like to have just three daughters, just three,

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Speaker 3: and a whole lot more. I'm a Happy Family's podcast.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 2: to feel bad or in trouble. The Do's and Dons

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Speaker 2: of Discipline. Theres a webinar to help parents set limit

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Speaker 2: with love, compassion and humanity. Find it now at happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now. And today we

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Speaker 4: are talking to a special guest, Jeremy mckne.

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Speaker 3: He's the founder, along with two other gentlemen, Luke Benedictus

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Speaker 3: and Andrew McCutcheon, of The Fatherhood, also the author with

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Speaker 3: those gentlemen of the book called The Fatherhood with Perspectives

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Speaker 3: on Fatherhood from Famous Fathers and not so famous Fathers.

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Speaker 3: And it's been a really I think enlightening conversation.

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Speaker 4: So far, is fatherhood what you thought it would be?

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Speaker 1: Jeremy, it's a really good question. No, No, fatherhood constantly changes,

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Speaker 1: so it's the highest of highs and the lowest of lows,

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Speaker 1: so the greatest challenges. It's like one thing we say

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Speaker 1: that with the fatherhood, it's like the champions League of manhood.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got to find this new level of

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Speaker 1: patience and energy and resilience. So no, I think I

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Speaker 1: don't think it could possibly be because it's just this

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Speaker 1: constantly evolving challenge and until you've done it, I think

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Speaker 1: you can kind of realize that we help people. Like,

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Speaker 1: no one told me to be this hard. You know,

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Speaker 1: when everyone's like, oh, you can have kids, here'd be lovely.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's lovely. At times it's hard. I've got

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Speaker 1: some three kids down here. One of them is really sick.

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Speaker 1: We've been in the emergency department a couple of times

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Speaker 1: this week. Like it's tough. Yeah, And that's just this week,

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Speaker 1: and next week it'll be new challenges. So I think

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Speaker 1: it's been. It's wonderful and fulfilling and certainly defining for me.

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Speaker 1: And hence the fatherhood, like it's I can't imagine life

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Speaker 1: without my kids. But I don't think it's played out

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Speaker 1: exactly like I thought it would. I think it's hard

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Speaker 1: to know.

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Speaker 4: I'm wondering, Jeremy, if through all of the study and

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Speaker 4: research that you've done, and the conversations you've had with

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Speaker 4: other men, specifically about their journey in fathering, if it

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Speaker 4: has changed the way you see your dad.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good question. Kindly, it has. It's given

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Speaker 1: me much greater understanding of my dad, much greater, Not

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Speaker 1: that I didn't have empathy, but I think I understand

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Speaker 1: him better. And what I'll give you one perspective on

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Speaker 1: that as an example where I think as parents we

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Speaker 1: do the best that we can and try and do

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Speaker 1: the best we can for our kids based on our

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Speaker 1: own experience. And my dad sadly lost his dad when

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Speaker 1: he was thirteen years old, very sad for him and

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Speaker 1: obviously shaped his youth in a huge way. And when

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Speaker 1: I grew up, I never knew I my mum and

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Speaker 1: dad were so determined to give us all these opportunities

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Speaker 1: to play sport, and whenever I played fort your cricket,

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Speaker 1: they'd be on the sidelines any time of day, they

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Speaker 1: were there, And through becoming a father and having conversations

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Speaker 1: with my parents more about this sort of stuff, I

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Speaker 1: realized that my dad was so determined to be there

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Speaker 1: at seven am on a Saturday morning when there's jew

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Speaker 1: in the grass because his dad was never there. He

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Speaker 1: never had so he really missed that opportunity, and he

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Speaker 1: was the kid without his dad and on the sideline

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Speaker 1: and really upsetting growing up. So then he's looked to

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Speaker 1: express that and provide that for me my brothers. It's

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Speaker 1: a really beautiful thing that he's done. So I have

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Speaker 1: a greater understanding and empathy of him and appreciation for

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Speaker 1: what he and my mum did for me and my

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Speaker 1: brothers growing up now that I'm trying to do it

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Speaker 1: for my kids.

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Speaker 3: Jeremy, thanks for sharing that.

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Speaker 1: That's really really special.

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Speaker 3: I feel like we've kind of come full circled what

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Speaker 3: we were talking about in the early part of the conversation,

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Speaker 3: and so maybe to wrap things up, I can ask

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Speaker 3: you this question. You're an author, you're a businessman. You're

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Speaker 3: a corporate or have been a corporate high flyer. You're

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Speaker 3: involved with foundations and consulting, and like many dads, you

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Speaker 3: probably still work lots, even if, as you've said, you've

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Speaker 3: pulled it back.

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Speaker 1: But how do you reckon?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I hear a conversation like this, I'm involved

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Speaker 3: in a conversation like this, and I think to myself,

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Speaker 3: I got to work less, I've got to be available more.

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Speaker 3: But I know that, in spite of my very best

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Speaker 3: intentions in this conversation, right this very minute, that my

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Speaker 3: team and my business and my Happy Families community and

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Speaker 3: everything that's going on as part of the Happy Family's

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Speaker 3: ecosystem is going to require a whole lot of me,

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be really hard for me to

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Speaker 3: make those decisions at crunch time. I'm still going to

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Speaker 3: be doing webinars or traveling once COVID lockdown's end, and

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Speaker 3: running talks and all that sort of stuff. That's how

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Speaker 3: I provide to my family. How do you see dads

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Speaker 3: actually getting it right? How do you see us moving

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Speaker 3: the needle on this when there's so much tension, so

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Speaker 3: many competing pressures.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough. It's a battle, and it requires constant

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Speaker 1: checking in with ourselves, and like we've talked about in

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Speaker 1: this discussion, it's working out what your values are and

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Speaker 1: what your priorities are and they all vary depending on

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Speaker 1: every person listening to this. So there might be someone

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Speaker 1: out there who wants to send their kids to private

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Speaker 1: school and wants to have a flash car, and that

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Speaker 1: is totally fine, that makes perfect sense based on their values,

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Speaker 1: and then they could structure their life on delivering on

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Speaker 1: that might be other people, and there are other people

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Speaker 1: out there go I don't care about that. I don't

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Speaker 1: care about the car I drive. I don't care about

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Speaker 1: the house a man, I don't care about it's educational,

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Speaker 1: private schools, whatever it is. I want to be there.

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Speaker 1: And we've all got different economic means that we're living within,

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Speaker 1: so it really is an individual thing for each of

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Speaker 1: us to be checking in and it's toe you're going

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Speaker 1: to be absolutely we've got bills to pay, and so

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Speaker 1: there's a there's a checking in on ourselves and just

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Speaker 1: making sure we're living to how we want to live.

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Speaker 1: So when that day comes we're all going to die

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Speaker 1: at some stage on a death bear, We've we've done

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Speaker 1: the best that we can with the opportunities we've got,

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Speaker 1: and there's also been kind to ourselves. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to as a parent be there all the time. It

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Speaker 1: can be a quality of engagement, so you don't have

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Speaker 1: to spend three hours a day with your kids. It's

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Speaker 1: focused time with your kids is what they want. And

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Speaker 1: so we all do need to be kind to ourselves

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Speaker 1: as well, because we are living in this generation an

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Speaker 1: enormous pressure, an enormous like it's better now, but I

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Speaker 1: look back to my father's generation and think his school

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Speaker 1: board was really clear, and you're it's this earlier justin

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Speaker 1: earn lots of money. Be the discipline area now and

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Speaker 1: again and tick, I'm doing my job broadly speaking. Whereas

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Speaker 1: now that I don't know what the school board is,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, buddy idea. Do we get to the

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Speaker 1: end of the week and go, I think you know,

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Speaker 1: did well at work? I think it's a couple of clients.

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Speaker 1: We're happy, a couple weren't. The kids are going all right,

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Speaker 1: And so we're every week sort of checking in and

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Speaker 1: going to my going, okay, do I need to adjust

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Speaker 1: stuff based on where Matte?

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Speaker 3: Well, what a great conversation, so valuable. I hope that

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Speaker 3: every mum and every dad gets a chance to have

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Speaker 3: listened to the things we've talked about and reevaluate last words,

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Speaker 3: Jeremy best advice for our dad as we get close

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Speaker 3: to Father's Day other than by the Fatherhood the book.

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Speaker 1: And it's a perfect Father's Day gift or anyone out

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Speaker 1: there that may not be a dad and looking for

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Speaker 1: something that's going to replace the socks and jocks. This

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Speaker 1: year we got a tick for our So there's that

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Speaker 1: and the other one, which I would say, which has

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Speaker 1: been the biggest shift in me, and I say this

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Speaker 1: with kindness, try and get out of your own way,

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Speaker 1: try and really think what do I want and how

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Speaker 1: do I go about getting it? And challenge yourself to

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Speaker 1: how much of this stuff is structural around you? Like,

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Speaker 1: because we have this opportunity, and so many dads out

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Speaker 1: there when you sit down it takes a three hour

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Speaker 1: workshop to get into the three hours and they go, actually,

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Speaker 1: I can do this. It's me stopping me doing it.

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Speaker 1: So you do have this opportunity. So the last word,

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Speaker 1: it's been a long last word, it would be gone,

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Speaker 1: seize the day, seize the day, get amongst.

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Speaker 3: It, gather ye rosebuds while you may exactly Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 3: Fantastic jentlem mcveen. What a privilege to have a chat

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Speaker 3: with you, and thanks for sharing your insights and wisdom.

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Speaker 1: No, it's been a pleasure. I love talking about this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Thanks well, we really hope this has helped make your

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Speaker 3: family happier. If you've enjoyed the conversation, please jump onto

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Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts and leave a rating and review for the

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Speaker 3: podcast so that other parents can find out about how

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Speaker 3: they can make their families happier. It's those ratings and

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Speaker 3: reviews that bump us up in the Apple algorithm so

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Speaker 3: that we appear in other people's feets. So enjoy and

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Speaker 3: appreciate that. The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media, and Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 3: If you'd like morofo about making your family happier, you

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Speaker 3: can check out Jeremy's great work at The Fatherhood. Just

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Speaker 3: google Jeremy and the Fatherhood. You'll find everything you need there,

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Speaker 3: or visit Happy families dot com dot a you