Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,
Speaker 1: now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily oas it's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the thirtieth of July.
Speaker 1: I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simon's.
Speaker 2: In case you missed it, the Coalition is divided over
Speaker 2: net zero. Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has this week
Speaker 2: introduced a bill to scrap Australia's legal commitment to reach
Speaker 2: net zero emissions by twenty fifty and that move has
Speaker 2: exposed some pretty deep divisions within the Coalition, who are
Speaker 2: now split over their climate policy. Joyce's push comes as
Speaker 2: Liberal branches in Western Australia and South Australia vote to
Speaker 2: abandon net zero commitments, disagreeing with other parts of the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party who want progressive climate goals. Now, this all
Speaker 2: comes against the backdrop of a visit from the UN's
Speaker 2: top climate diplomat, who is in the country this week,
Speaker 2: urging Australian officials to set more ambitious climate targets. Today,
Speaker 2: we are going to unpack the debate over net zero
Speaker 2: and what all of this means for the Coalition. It's
Speaker 2: climate stance and Australia's climate goals.
Speaker 1: More broadly, I have so many questions over this, but
Speaker 1: before you explain it all to us, here is a
Speaker 1: quick message from today's sponsor, and I want to start
Speaker 1: with the basics. So, as you said today, we are
Speaker 1: talking about the coalition's disagreements about net zero and this
Speaker 1: all started with Barnaby Joyce introducing this private member's bill.
Speaker 1: Just for anyone who might not be familiar with him,
Speaker 1: or who might need a refresher, who is Barnaby Joyce?
Speaker 2: Okay, So Barnaby Joyce is a National's Party MP. So
Speaker 2: the Nationals forms the coalition with the Liberal Party. But
Speaker 2: you might be familiar with Barnaby Joyce because he used
Speaker 2: to be the leader of the National Party. He's also
Speaker 2: a fairly prominent character, I would say in Australian politics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there have been a few high profile incidents that
Speaker 1: have involved him that have meant that he's kind of
Speaker 1: gained this national prominence that perhaps not all National MPs
Speaker 1: or national leaders.
Speaker 2: Even get exactly. But Barnaby Joyce is no longer the
Speaker 2: leader of the National's Party. He is still an MP though,
Speaker 2: so he's the Member for New England, which is a
Speaker 2: really large electorate in Country New South Wales that covers
Speaker 2: towns including Tamworth and Armadale, and Barnaby Joyce really kind
Speaker 2: of platforms himself as a leader for Australia's regional communities.
Speaker 1: Yes, and so he has introduced this bill.
Speaker 2: What is it that's the million dollar question?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: On Monday, Barnaby Joyce introduced what's known as a private
Speaker 2: member's bill to the House of Representatives. Now, a private
Speaker 2: member's bill is basically a draft law that isn't introduced
Speaker 2: by someone in government, which, as you mentioned, Joyce is not.
Speaker 2: He is part of the opposition. So if an opposition
Speaker 2: MP wants to table a proposed piece of legislation, that's
Speaker 2: known as a private member's bill. Now that is exactly
Speaker 2: what Barnaby Joyce has done. He's introduced a bill that
Speaker 2: would repeal the law binding Australia to reach net zero
Speaker 2: emissions by twenty fifty. So basically he's proposing a plan
Speaker 2: to scrap net zero and other related measures, including what's
Speaker 2: known as the Net Zero Economy Authority that is an
Speaker 2: independent body tasked with helping workers transition into low emissions
Speaker 2: industries from the kind of traditional fossil fuels sector etc.
Speaker 2: In a speech to Parliament tabling this legislation, Joyce said
Speaker 2: that Australians are being done over by net zero energy policies.
Speaker 2: To use his words, he argued that, quote net zero
Speaker 2: is going to have absolutely no effect on the climate whatsoever.
Speaker 1: Okay, before we go any further, do you want to
Speaker 1: just explain to us what exactly is net zero? Yes?
Speaker 2: So, net zero is an abbreviation for net zero green
Speaker 2: house gas emissions, and it's a concept or a target
Speaker 2: that basically refers to balancing the amount of greenhouse gases
Speaker 2: we produce with the amount we take out of the atmosphere.
Speaker 2: So a goal that there will not be more emissions
Speaker 2: created by industries like fossil fuels than the climate targets
Speaker 2: or efforts to remove those emissions from the atmosphere. Yeap.
Speaker 1: When someone first described net zero to me, they said,
Speaker 1: imagine a bath that is kind of at its brim,
Speaker 1: and so for every bit of water that you want
Speaker 1: to add to the bath, you have to take some
Speaker 1: out in order to make space for the new water.
Speaker 2: Interesting, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that really helped me. That really helped me understand
Speaker 1: net zero. That you have to take out as much
Speaker 1: as you put in so that there's no more overflowing.
Speaker 2: It's a balancing action. So in the Albanese Labor government's
Speaker 2: first term, they legislated a plan to achieve net zero
Speaker 2: greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty and the plan is
Speaker 2: to do that by transitioning towards renewable energy sources like
Speaker 2: wind and solar and away from fossil fuels. The goal
Speaker 2: didn't just come out of nowhere, though. This is backed
Speaker 2: by UN climate scientists who basically say all countries around
Speaker 2: the world need to reduce their emissions faster to limit
Speaker 2: global warming to one point five degrees above pre industrial levels.
Speaker 2: That's the sort of climate benchmark of making sure temperatures
Speaker 2: do not exceed those levels. Going above those levels has
Speaker 2: these kind of bigger picture, long term, frankly disastrous consequences.
Speaker 2: And we also know that above one point five degrees
Speaker 2: of warming has occurred around the world on average for
Speaker 2: back to back months, according to the updates that we
Speaker 2: get from big climate authorities.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we have Labor who legislated this target to
Speaker 1: achieve net zero by twenty to fifty. I believe that
Speaker 1: was in twenty twenty two. What was the coalition's stance
Speaker 1: on that bill at the time.
Speaker 2: Well, they did oppose Labour's legislation of net zero by
Speaker 2: twenty fifty. But and I think this is an important nuance,
Speaker 2: the Coalition did go to the last election, so you'll
Speaker 2: remember that wasn't very long ago May this year, pledging
Speaker 2: to achieve net zero by twenty fifty. So they opposed
Speaker 2: the original legislation, but they went to the most recent
Speaker 2: election saying that they will achieve that target. The important
Speaker 2: nuance here, I guess, continuing with that, is that the
Speaker 2: Coalition had a different proposal for how to get there
Speaker 2: compared to labor that included nuclear energy, but they didn't
Speaker 2: disagree with the premise of net zero by twenty fifty.
Speaker 1: Got it. So both major parties agree that Australia should
Speaker 1: achieve net zero by twenty fifty. They just have different
Speaker 1: views on how we should get there exactly. But then
Speaker 1: this week Barnaby Joyce, who is part of the Coalition,
Speaker 1: has introduced this bill to remove Australia's legislative target to
Speaker 1: achieve net zero by twenty fifty. How many times have
Speaker 1: we said that on the podcast already and so that
Speaker 1: gave us a hint that perhaps there's this disagreement within
Speaker 1: the coalition about net zero moving forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you have to remember this comes after the
Speaker 2: coalition had a lot of turmoil in between its historic
Speaker 2: election loss and parliament returning. Just this month, the coalition
Speaker 2: broke up. You know, we spoke about it here on
Speaker 2: this podcast. There were a raft of policy measures that
Speaker 2: the Nationals didn't feel they could agree with the Liberals
Speaker 2: on and that they wanted to walk away have some
Speaker 2: time apart. Nationals leader David Little Proud and Liberal leader
Speaker 2: Susan Lee came together to work through that. We have
Speaker 2: a coalition back together, back in the forty eighth Parliament.
Speaker 2: But it's definitely been a trying time, you could say,
Speaker 2: for this major part of Australia's political landscape.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so where does this leave the coalition? Now? Where
Speaker 1: does Barnaby Joyce introducing this leave the federal coalition?
Speaker 2: Well, Susan Lee, the Opposition leader, or rather a spokesperson
Speaker 2: for her, said that Joyce is entitled to put forward
Speaker 2: his private members bill. You know, anyone in the House
Speaker 2: of Reps can do that. That's his prerogative. One thing
Speaker 2: to note though, is that the Liberal Party is currently
Speaker 2: conducting a post election review of all its policies, including
Speaker 2: on energy. As I mentioned, trying to understand that significant
Speaker 2: defeat at the May III election. And you know, although
Speaker 2: I said they did go to the last election committing
Speaker 2: to net zero by twenty fifty, they haven't officially said
Speaker 2: that they are going to continue with that pledge moving forward.
Speaker 2: So their stance on the policy is a little bit
Speaker 2: up in the air right now. But a coalition spokesperson
Speaker 2: did tell the Daily Os that any new policy from
Speaker 2: the Liberal and National Parties would aim to drive down
Speaker 2: both power bills and emissions, so they're not suggesting that
Speaker 2: they'll abandon climate goals together. But it's a little bit unclear.
Speaker 2: Some coalition MPs are backing Barnaby Joyce's push, so that
Speaker 2: includes Liberal MP Garth Hamilton who supported scrapping net zero,
Speaker 2: but others completely disagree. So we've got Victorian Liberal Senator
Speaker 2: Jane Hume who said successive elections had shown Australians have
Speaker 2: voted for stronger action on reducing emissions, suggesting that going
Speaker 2: the other way would only harm the coalition's results at
Speaker 2: the next election.
Speaker 1: Got it, So we know that there is some internal
Speaker 1: disagreement here and we don't know yet what the official
Speaker 1: party position is that still to come. What is Labour's
Speaker 1: view on all this?
Speaker 2: Well, the Government has really seized on these developments to
Speaker 2: question the opposition's commitment to net zero, to climate change
Speaker 2: and climate targets more broadly. So it's worth adding that
Speaker 2: you know, Labor does have a really significant majority in
Speaker 2: the lower House, in the House of Representatives, so coalition
Speaker 2: legislation on climate that Labor disagrees with is going to
Speaker 2: be incredibly tough to pass. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi's office
Speaker 2: has pointed out a contradiction from the coalition, saying that
Speaker 2: even Peter Dutton, to use his words, backed net zero,
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton being of course the former Opposition leader, but
Speaker 2: Albanezi said Susan Lee won't back net zero. Climate Minister
Speaker 2: Chris Bowen has argued that Barnaby Joyce's bill shows internal
Speaker 2: divisions what we've touched on Billy. Bowen told Parliament that quote,
Speaker 2: people in rural and regional Australia have the most to
Speaker 2: gain from jobs and investments created by net zero, So
Speaker 2: Labor is clearly trying to paint this kind of image
Speaker 2: of a very fractured coalition that it is divided on
Speaker 2: climate policy, and I'm sure that we will be hearing
Speaker 2: a lot more of that sentiment from Labor going forward.
Speaker 1: And then just to end, in terms of this private
Speaker 1: member's bill that Barnaby Joyce has introduced, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that's not going to pass.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it won't have enough support. And if the Coalition
Speaker 2: are united on wanting to ditch net zero, not only
Speaker 2: does Joyce not have the full support of the Coalition,
Speaker 2: but he also needs the support of the Government, which
Speaker 2: obviously he doesn't have. That being said, though, you know,
Speaker 2: I think that this is a discussion that we'll expect
Speaker 2: to hear a lot more of over the next three years,
Speaker 2: particularly if the Coalition thinks that less ambitious climate targets
Speaker 2: might appeal to more Australian voters. I think the juries
Speaker 2: out on that for right now, but there is a
Speaker 2: global trend of you know, large democracies take the US
Speaker 2: walking back some of their climate targets.
Speaker 1: It's one that we will keep a very close eye on,
Speaker 1: as well as all of the different policies that the
Speaker 1: Coalition is set to announce I presume within the next
Speaker 1: year or so after this review takes place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well exactly. And also I just want to add
Speaker 2: that the federal government has to unveil its twenty thirty
Speaker 2: five target by September this year. So there is a
Speaker 2: lot of policy conversation going on at the moment. There
Speaker 2: is a top climate chief from the United Nations here
Speaker 2: in Australia right now. His name is Simon Steel and
Speaker 2: he is essentially arguing for exactly the opposite of what
Speaker 2: Barnaby Joyce is pushing for. So Steele has called these
Speaker 2: talks around the government's twenty thirty five target as a
Speaker 2: defining moment for Australia. He said that the government has
Speaker 2: quote one shot to build a blueprint that protects ossie
Speaker 2: workers and businesses by preparing them for a fast changing
Speaker 2: global economy. So this is the UN Climate Chief who
Speaker 2: also gave an address to business leaders really arguing that
Speaker 2: strong climate measures have strong economic rewards. That's kind of
Speaker 2: been his big push here this week. So Simon Steele
Speaker 2: said that half measures will destroy property in infrastructure, hammer households,
Speaker 2: bankrupt regions and punch holes in public budgets. While he
Speaker 2: said real action opens the door to real leadership and
Speaker 2: big rewards for what he called this ambitious, capable country.
Speaker 1: Yet it's a conversation that's definitely going to be here.
Speaker 1: Is that a pun. I didn't mean it to be
Speaker 1: a pun, but I know that Australia is also bidding
Speaker 1: to host COP thirty one, which is the UN Climate
Speaker 1: conference that happens every year. They are hoping to host that. Well,
Speaker 1: Australia is hoping to post that next that year, So
Speaker 1: another one to keep a very close eye on, and
Speaker 1: the daly Os will be there every step of the way.
Speaker 1: Thanks Am, thank you, Billy, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of the Daily Os. We'll
Speaker 1: be back this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,
Speaker 1: have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and
Speaker 1: I'm a proud Aarunda Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadigol Country.
Speaker 1: The daly Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to
Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay
Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both
Speaker 1: past and present