WEBVTT - Why the Coalition is fighting over net zero

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily oas it's Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the thirtieth of July.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simon's.

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<v Speaker 2>In case you missed it, the Coalition is divided over

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<v Speaker 2>net zero. Former Nationals leader Barnaby Joyce has this week

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<v Speaker 2>introduced a bill to scrap Australia's legal commitment to reach

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<v Speaker 2>net zero emissions by twenty fifty and that move has

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<v Speaker 2>exposed some pretty deep divisions within the Coalition, who are

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<v Speaker 2>now split over their climate policy. Joyce's push comes as

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal branches in Western Australia and South Australia vote to

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<v Speaker 2>abandon net zero commitments, disagreeing with other parts of the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party who want progressive climate goals. Now, this all

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<v Speaker 2>comes against the backdrop of a visit from the UN's

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<v Speaker 2>top climate diplomat, who is in the country this week,

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<v Speaker 2>urging Australian officials to set more ambitious climate targets. Today,

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<v Speaker 2>we are going to unpack the debate over net zero

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<v Speaker 2>and what all of this means for the Coalition. It's

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<v Speaker 2>climate stance and Australia's climate goals.

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<v Speaker 1>More broadly, I have so many questions over this, but

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<v Speaker 1>before you explain it all to us, here is a

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<v Speaker 1>quick message from today's sponsor, and I want to start

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<v Speaker 1>with the basics. So, as you said today, we are

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the coalition's disagreements about net zero and this

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<v Speaker 1>all started with Barnaby Joyce introducing this private member's bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Just for anyone who might not be familiar with him,

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<v Speaker 1>or who might need a refresher, who is Barnaby Joyce?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So Barnaby Joyce is a National's Party MP. So

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<v Speaker 2>the Nationals forms the coalition with the Liberal Party. But

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<v Speaker 2>you might be familiar with Barnaby Joyce because he used

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<v Speaker 2>to be the leader of the National Party. He's also

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<v Speaker 2>a fairly prominent character, I would say in Australian politics.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there have been a few high profile incidents that

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<v Speaker 1>have involved him that have meant that he's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>gained this national prominence that perhaps not all National MPs

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<v Speaker 1>or national leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>Even get exactly. But Barnaby Joyce is no longer the

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<v Speaker 2>leader of the National's Party. He is still an MP though,

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<v Speaker 2>so he's the Member for New England, which is a

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<v Speaker 2>really large electorate in Country New South Wales that covers

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<v Speaker 2>towns including Tamworth and Armadale, and Barnaby Joyce really kind

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<v Speaker 2>of platforms himself as a leader for Australia's regional communities.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and so he has introduced this bill.

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<v Speaker 2>What is it that's the million dollar question?

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<v Speaker 1>Really?

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<v Speaker 2>On Monday, Barnaby Joyce introduced what's known as a private

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<v Speaker 2>member's bill to the House of Representatives. Now, a private

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<v Speaker 2>member's bill is basically a draft law that isn't introduced

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<v Speaker 2>by someone in government, which, as you mentioned, Joyce is not.

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<v Speaker 2>He is part of the opposition. So if an opposition

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<v Speaker 2>MP wants to table a proposed piece of legislation, that's

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<v Speaker 2>known as a private member's bill. Now that is exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what Barnaby Joyce has done. He's introduced a bill that

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<v Speaker 2>would repeal the law binding Australia to reach net zero

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<v Speaker 2>emissions by twenty fifty. So basically he's proposing a plan

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<v Speaker 2>to scrap net zero and other related measures, including what's

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<v Speaker 2>known as the Net Zero Economy Authority that is an

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<v Speaker 2>independent body tasked with helping workers transition into low emissions

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<v Speaker 2>industries from the kind of traditional fossil fuels sector etc.

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<v Speaker 2>In a speech to Parliament tabling this legislation, Joyce said

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<v Speaker 2>that Australians are being done over by net zero energy policies.

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<v Speaker 2>To use his words, he argued that, quote net zero

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<v Speaker 2>is going to have absolutely no effect on the climate whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, before we go any further, do you want to

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<v Speaker 1>just explain to us what exactly is net zero? Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>So, net zero is an abbreviation for net zero green

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<v Speaker 2>house gas emissions, and it's a concept or a target

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<v Speaker 2>that basically refers to balancing the amount of greenhouse gases

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<v Speaker 2>we produce with the amount we take out of the atmosphere.

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<v Speaker 2>So a goal that there will not be more emissions

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<v Speaker 2>created by industries like fossil fuels than the climate targets

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<v Speaker 2>or efforts to remove those emissions from the atmosphere. Yeap.

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<v Speaker 1>When someone first described net zero to me, they said,

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<v Speaker 1>imagine a bath that is kind of at its brim,

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<v Speaker 1>and so for every bit of water that you want

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<v Speaker 1>to add to the bath, you have to take some

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<v Speaker 1>out in order to make space for the new water.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, that's a good one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that really helped me. That really helped me understand

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<v Speaker 1>net zero. That you have to take out as much

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<v Speaker 1>as you put in so that there's no more overflowing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a balancing action. So in the Albanese Labor government's

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<v Speaker 2>first term, they legislated a plan to achieve net zero

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<v Speaker 2>greenhouse gas emissions by twenty fifty and the plan is

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<v Speaker 2>to do that by transitioning towards renewable energy sources like

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<v Speaker 2>wind and solar and away from fossil fuels. The goal

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<v Speaker 2>didn't just come out of nowhere, though. This is backed

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<v Speaker 2>by UN climate scientists who basically say all countries around

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<v Speaker 2>the world need to reduce their emissions faster to limit

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<v Speaker 2>global warming to one point five degrees above pre industrial levels.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the sort of climate benchmark of making sure temperatures

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<v Speaker 2>do not exceed those levels. Going above those levels has

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<v Speaker 2>these kind of bigger picture, long term, frankly disastrous consequences.

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<v Speaker 2>And we also know that above one point five degrees

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<v Speaker 2>of warming has occurred around the world on average for

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<v Speaker 2>back to back months, according to the updates that we

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<v Speaker 2>get from big climate authorities.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so we have Labor who legislated this target to

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<v Speaker 1>achieve net zero by twenty to fifty. I believe that

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<v Speaker 1>was in twenty twenty two. What was the coalition's stance

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<v Speaker 1>on that bill at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they did oppose Labour's legislation of net zero by

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifty. But and I think this is an important nuance,

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<v Speaker 2>the Coalition did go to the last election, so you'll

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<v Speaker 2>remember that wasn't very long ago May this year, pledging

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<v Speaker 2>to achieve net zero by twenty fifty. So they opposed

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<v Speaker 2>the original legislation, but they went to the most recent

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<v Speaker 2>election saying that they will achieve that target. The important

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<v Speaker 2>nuance here, I guess, continuing with that, is that the

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<v Speaker 2>Coalition had a different proposal for how to get there

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<v Speaker 2>compared to labor that included nuclear energy, but they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>disagree with the premise of net zero by twenty fifty.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it. So both major parties agree that Australia should

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<v Speaker 1>achieve net zero by twenty fifty. They just have different

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<v Speaker 1>views on how we should get there exactly. But then

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<v Speaker 1>this week Barnaby Joyce, who is part of the Coalition,

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<v Speaker 1>has introduced this bill to remove Australia's legislative target to

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<v Speaker 1>achieve net zero by twenty fifty. How many times have

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<v Speaker 1>we said that on the podcast already and so that

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<v Speaker 1>gave us a hint that perhaps there's this disagreement within

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<v Speaker 1>the coalition about net zero moving forward.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you have to remember this comes after the

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<v Speaker 2>coalition had a lot of turmoil in between its historic

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<v Speaker 2>election loss and parliament returning. Just this month, the coalition

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<v Speaker 2>broke up. You know, we spoke about it here on

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast. There were a raft of policy measures that

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<v Speaker 2>the Nationals didn't feel they could agree with the Liberals

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<v Speaker 2>on and that they wanted to walk away have some

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<v Speaker 2>time apart. Nationals leader David Little Proud and Liberal leader

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<v Speaker 2>Susan Lee came together to work through that. We have

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<v Speaker 2>a coalition back together, back in the forty eighth Parliament.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's definitely been a trying time, you could say,

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<v Speaker 2>for this major part of Australia's political landscape.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so where does this leave the coalition? Now? Where

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<v Speaker 1>does Barnaby Joyce introducing this leave the federal coalition?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Susan Lee, the Opposition leader, or rather a spokesperson

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<v Speaker 2>for her, said that Joyce is entitled to put forward

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<v Speaker 2>his private members bill. You know, anyone in the House

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<v Speaker 2>of Reps can do that. That's his prerogative. One thing

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<v Speaker 2>to note though, is that the Liberal Party is currently

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<v Speaker 2>conducting a post election review of all its policies, including

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<v Speaker 2>on energy. As I mentioned, trying to understand that significant

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<v Speaker 2>defeat at the May III election. And you know, although

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<v Speaker 2>I said they did go to the last election committing

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<v Speaker 2>to net zero by twenty fifty, they haven't officially said

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<v Speaker 2>that they are going to continue with that pledge moving forward.

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<v Speaker 2>So their stance on the policy is a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>up in the air right now. But a coalition spokesperson

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<v Speaker 2>did tell the Daily Os that any new policy from

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<v Speaker 2>the Liberal and National Parties would aim to drive down

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<v Speaker 2>both power bills and emissions, so they're not suggesting that

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<v Speaker 2>they'll abandon climate goals together. But it's a little bit unclear.

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<v Speaker 2>Some coalition MPs are backing Barnaby Joyce's push, so that

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<v Speaker 2>includes Liberal MP Garth Hamilton who supported scrapping net zero,

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<v Speaker 2>but others completely disagree. So we've got Victorian Liberal Senator

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<v Speaker 2>Jane Hume who said successive elections had shown Australians have

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<v Speaker 2>voted for stronger action on reducing emissions, suggesting that going

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<v Speaker 2>the other way would only harm the coalition's results at

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<v Speaker 2>the next election.

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<v Speaker 1>Got it, So we know that there is some internal

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<v Speaker 1>disagreement here and we don't know yet what the official

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<v Speaker 1>party position is that still to come. What is Labour's

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<v Speaker 1>view on all this?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the Government has really seized on these developments to

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<v Speaker 2>question the opposition's commitment to net zero, to climate change

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<v Speaker 2>and climate targets more broadly. So it's worth adding that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Labor does have a really significant majority in

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<v Speaker 2>the lower House, in the House of Representatives, so coalition

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<v Speaker 2>legislation on climate that Labor disagrees with is going to

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<v Speaker 2>be incredibly tough to pass. Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi's office

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<v Speaker 2>has pointed out a contradiction from the coalition, saying that

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<v Speaker 2>even Peter Dutton, to use his words, backed net zero,

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Dutton being of course the former Opposition leader, but

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<v Speaker 2>Albanezi said Susan Lee won't back net zero. Climate Minister

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Bowen has argued that Barnaby Joyce's bill shows internal

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<v Speaker 2>divisions what we've touched on Billy. Bowen told Parliament that quote,

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<v Speaker 2>people in rural and regional Australia have the most to

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<v Speaker 2>gain from jobs and investments created by net zero, So

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<v Speaker 2>Labor is clearly trying to paint this kind of image

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<v Speaker 2>of a very fractured coalition that it is divided on

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<v Speaker 2>climate policy, and I'm sure that we will be hearing

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<v Speaker 2>a lot more of that sentiment from Labor going forward.

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<v Speaker 1>And then just to end, in terms of this private

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<v Speaker 1>member's bill that Barnaby Joyce has introduced, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's fair to say that's not going to pass.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it won't have enough support. And if the Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>are united on wanting to ditch net zero, not only

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<v Speaker 2>does Joyce not have the full support of the Coalition,

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<v Speaker 2>but he also needs the support of the Government, which

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<v Speaker 2>obviously he doesn't have. That being said, though, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that this is a discussion that we'll expect

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<v Speaker 2>to hear a lot more of over the next three years,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly if the Coalition thinks that less ambitious climate targets

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<v Speaker 2>might appeal to more Australian voters. I think the juries

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<v Speaker 2>out on that for right now, but there is a

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<v Speaker 2>global trend of you know, large democracies take the US

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<v Speaker 2>walking back some of their climate targets.

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<v Speaker 1>It's one that we will keep a very close eye on,

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<v Speaker 1>as well as all of the different policies that the

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<v Speaker 1>Coalition is set to announce I presume within the next

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<v Speaker 1>year or so after this review takes place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well exactly. And also I just want to add

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<v Speaker 2>that the federal government has to unveil its twenty thirty

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<v Speaker 2>five target by September this year. So there is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of policy conversation going on at the moment. There

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<v Speaker 2>is a top climate chief from the United Nations here

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia right now. His name is Simon Steel and

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<v Speaker 2>he is essentially arguing for exactly the opposite of what

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<v Speaker 2>Barnaby Joyce is pushing for. So Steele has called these

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<v Speaker 2>talks around the government's twenty thirty five target as a

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<v Speaker 2>defining moment for Australia. He said that the government has

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<v Speaker 2>quote one shot to build a blueprint that protects ossie

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<v Speaker 2>workers and businesses by preparing them for a fast changing

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<v Speaker 2>global economy. So this is the UN Climate Chief who

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<v Speaker 2>also gave an address to business leaders really arguing that

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<v Speaker 2>strong climate measures have strong economic rewards. That's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>been his big push here this week. So Simon Steele

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<v Speaker 2>said that half measures will destroy property in infrastructure, hammer households,

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<v Speaker 2>bankrupt regions and punch holes in public budgets. While he

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<v Speaker 2>said real action opens the door to real leadership and

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<v Speaker 2>big rewards for what he called this ambitious, capable country.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet it's a conversation that's definitely going to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that a pun. I didn't mean it to be

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<v Speaker 1>a pun, but I know that Australia is also bidding

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<v Speaker 1>to host COP thirty one, which is the UN Climate

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<v Speaker 1>conference that happens every year. They are hoping to host that. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>Australia is hoping to post that next that year, So

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<v Speaker 1>another one to keep a very close eye on, and

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<v Speaker 1>the daly Os will be there every step of the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Am, thank you, Billy, and thank you so much

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<v Speaker 1>for listening to this episode of the Daily Os. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,

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<v Speaker 1>have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a proud Aarunda Bunje lung Kalkutin woman from Gadigol Country.

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<v Speaker 1>The daly Oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 1>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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<v Speaker 1>all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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<v Speaker 1>our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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<v Speaker 1>past and present