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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers Now.

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Speaker 3: Every month we review the latest parenting news. It's called

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Speaker 3: This Week in Parenting, This Week in Parenting. Hello, I'm

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Speaker 3: doctor Justin courslon On here with my wife Mum to

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Speaker 3: our six daughters, missus Happy Families, Kylie Coulson, Kylie. Normally

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Speaker 3: we try to rush through five big stories in fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 3: Not going to happen today Number one hasn't been a

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Speaker 3: whole lot of parenting news. Number two to really big stories.

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Speaker 3: We've got one about ongoing discussions around social media bands

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Speaker 3: for kids and some recent research about smacking in Australia.

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Speaker 3: Where should we start? You sound like you don't want

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Speaker 3: to do This Week in Parenting? This is my favorite episode.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I just have so much fun with this one.

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Speaker 3: What's the matter? What's the matter?

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Speaker 2: I honestly, I can't believe we're still having conversations about smacking.

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Speaker 3: Oh. It is a bit depressing, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: It really is. It really is to think that at

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Speaker 2: this stage of understanding and progression as a society, there

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Speaker 2: is still a debate about whether or not I should

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Speaker 2: be able to smack my kid.

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Speaker 3: And so where do you stand on this?

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Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting you to ask me that question. I

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Speaker 2: don't think it's actually relevant. Oh, whether I have an

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Speaker 2: opinion about it or not. But the research is really

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Speaker 2: clear there is nothing positive that comes from smacking our kids.

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Speaker 1: A new study has revealed that Australians are more open

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Speaker 1: to smacking their children compared to parents in other high

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Speaker 1: income countries, just over fifty percent of Ossie parents admitting

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Speaker 1: to using corporal punishment at least once.

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Speaker 3: Let's have a look at what the study show. Astrained

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Speaker 3: parents are more open to smacking their kids than parents

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Speaker 3: in other high income country.

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Speaker 2: Did they tell us why?

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Speaker 3: Well, let's have a look at it. Doctor Carolina Gonzalez

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Speaker 3: let to study comparing Australian attitudes to those found in Belgium, Canada, Germany,

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Speaker 3: Hong Kong, Spain, Switzerland, and the UK. Notice which major

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Speaker 3: country is not there?

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Speaker 1: China?

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Speaker 3: Well, China's not there either, hard to do research in China.

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Speaker 3: The USA was not there either. We know that the

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Speaker 3: USA is highly pro smacking. It's like gun rights and

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Speaker 3: smacking rights. We should be allowed to do whatever we

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Speaker 3: want and Australian parents, though in the countries that were examined,

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Speaker 3: reported the highest level of acceptability of corporal punishment of children.

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Speaker 3: Which is really odd because I mean, for years I've

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Speaker 3: been making noise that we need to band smacking, make

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Speaker 3: it illegal, draw a line in the sound and just

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Speaker 3: say this is something that we don't do here anymore.

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Speaker 3: When you draw that line in the sand and provide

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Speaker 3: appropriate education and support for parents who are struggling, what

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Speaker 3: happens is over a handful of years, change occur. So

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Speaker 3: I'm all for the ban. I'm all for making it illegal.

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Speaker 3: I think that it's absolutely the right thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Not if it means that we start to punish parents

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Speaker 3: and find them and imprison them, that's not helpful, but

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Speaker 3: rather because it draws that line and then we provide

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Speaker 3: the relevant education. What the study showed, by the way,

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Speaker 3: six thy seven hundred parents of children aged two to twelve,

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Speaker 3: sixty two and a half percent of OSSIE adults had

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Speaker 3: experienced corporal punishment three times or more before they turned eighteen.

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised that it's that low, and fifty three point

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Speaker 3: seven per cent of Australian parents had used corporal punishment

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Speaker 3: at least once again, I'm surprised that it's that low.

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Speaker 3: I would have thought it's higher, especially based on the

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Speaker 3: conversations that I have with parents every single day. Basically

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Speaker 3: the reasons for it. Australia is a really individualistic country,

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Speaker 3: and there's a real push that I should be allowed

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Speaker 3: to do what I think is right without anybody telling

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Speaker 3: me what to do. We don't have that collectivist culture.

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Speaker 3: And in addition to that, when we look historically, it's

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Speaker 3: something that's always happened in Australia. It's just what we've

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Speaker 3: done here. You know, this is really interesting about the study.

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Speaker 3: Of the eight countries that were examined, only German in

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Speaker 3: Spain have banned smacking banned corporal punishment completely. So a

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Speaker 3: handful of others have banned in separate settings, but very

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Speaker 3: much Germany and Spain in the study. Check this out.

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Speaker 3: This is really interesting though, on my argument for the

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Speaker 3: ban in German. In Spain, parents did not consistently show

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Speaker 3: less acceptance and use of corporal punishment and other similar strategies.

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Speaker 3: So even that how long has the band been in for,

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Speaker 3: I don't know how long they've had it banned for.

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Speaker 3: I would assume I mean, we've got sixty three countries

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Speaker 3: I think it is now around the world that are

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Speaker 3: band smacking. Most of them have only done it fairly recently.

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Speaker 3: Some did it a long time ago, but they were

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Speaker 3: absolutely like real world leaders in that particular area.

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Speaker 2: I think back to the conversations we've had recently on

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Speaker 2: the podcast about seat out laws and how long it

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Speaker 2: took for a systematic change to take place across nation.

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Speaker 3: It's a generational thing, it really is.

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Speaker 2: So the fact that there isn't necessarily a shift in

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Speaker 2: mentality at this point isn't a suggestion that it's the

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Speaker 2: wrong move. It's just an acknowledgment that these things really

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Speaker 2: do take time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me be really clear for those who have

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Speaker 3: maybe missed the conversations we've had previously in like sixty

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Speaker 3: seconds or less. Morally, I think we've got really big

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Speaker 3: problems when it comes to this idea that it's okay

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Speaker 3: to hit kids. Just the moral argument doesn't stack up.

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Speaker 3: How is it right that a person who's twice you're

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Speaker 3: height and five times your way is allowed to give

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Speaker 3: you a whack? If a three and a half meter tall,

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Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty kilogram person, that adult came and

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Speaker 3: stood beside me and threatened to hit me, I'd probably

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Speaker 3: wet my pants like just.

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Speaker 2: And even a tap, oh yeah, would feel like an

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Speaker 2: assault on me.

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Speaker 3: It would be terrifying, Absolutely terrifying. And that's what happens,

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Speaker 3: especially when you're hitting tottles, and the younger the child,

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Speaker 3: the more likely is that they'll get hit. As kids

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Speaker 3: get older, they get hit by their parents a lot less.

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Speaker 3: A want of parents will say, well, you can't reason.

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Speaker 3: You just can't reason with a toddler. My argument against

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Speaker 3: that is where you can't reason withhe it dementia patient either,

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Speaker 3: So should we start hitting eighty year olds? I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's just nuts. It doesn't stand up.

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Speaker 2: Every time we have this conversation. I just feel so frustrated.

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Speaker 2: Why would I want my child to be scared of me?

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Speaker 2: Why would I want them to fear me? If everything

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Speaker 2: I am doing is about building a loving, safe environment

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Speaker 2: and a connective relationship with my child, why would I

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Speaker 2: go out of my way to jeopardize all of the

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Speaker 2: good that I'm doing everywhere else?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And research, I mean, we've talked about the moral

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Speaker 3: and philosophical side of things, but from a research point

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Speaker 3: of view, it just it doesn't stack up. We've got

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Speaker 3: sixty years of smacking research. Now, this is not abuse,

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Speaker 3: this is not hardcore violence towards children. Were just talking

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Speaker 3: about smacking in America, they'd call it spanking. Fifty sixty

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Speaker 3: years of research now shows that there are no redeeming

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Speaker 3: qualities except that you might sometimes get a short term

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Speaker 3: response where you get the behavior looking for, but it

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Speaker 3: doesn't last. It is problematic, and there are just better

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Speaker 3: things to do. The biggest issue is we've got to

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Speaker 3: educate parents on better things to do. I've written a

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Speaker 3: couple of books about this stuff, Parenting Revolution. Grab a

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Speaker 3: copy of The Pairing Revolution if you want to know

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Speaker 3: what to do instead of hitting your kids. There's just

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Speaker 3: so much there. So that's our first story. We've got

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Speaker 3: a problem with the culture. The good news is the

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Speaker 3: numbers are improving. The numbers definitely trending in the right direction,

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Speaker 3: and more and more I'm speaking with parents who are

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Speaker 3: trying so hard to be gentle and kind and compassionate

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Speaker 3: with their kids while still having limits where necessary. So

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Speaker 3: that's a good sign. But there's still a lot of

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Speaker 3: work to do. Story number two.

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Speaker 1: Opening the door to an Australian first, that will shut

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Speaker 1: off social media to essay children.

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Speaker 3: A very significant and ambitious move to limit the harm

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Speaker 3: of social media on our children.

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Speaker 2: Social media bands. This continues to be a conversation piece.

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Speaker 3: The momentum is building, The momentum is really really building,

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Speaker 3: and I'm so excited about it. I'm really happy about

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Speaker 3: what we're doing here. We are taking a slightly different

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Speaker 3: route to some others. So there's a guy called Whipper.

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Speaker 3: He's on the radio in Sydney. Some people will know

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Speaker 3: who he is. Has been around for a pretty long

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Speaker 3: time now. Thirty six months. Thirty six months is what

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Speaker 3: Michael Whipfley Whipper and Rob Gluso, the founder of the

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Speaker 3: production company Finch, are arguing. They're saying, let's raise the

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Speaker 3: minimum age that Australian teenagers can sign up for social

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Speaker 3: media accounts from thirteen to sixteen. Let's do that by

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Speaker 3: them an additional thirty six months of cognitive development, intellectual development,

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Speaker 3: psychological development, social development, emotional development. Let's keep them away

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Speaker 3: from all of the awful stuff that happens. I mean

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Speaker 3: the amount of explicit material, the amount of unsolicited non

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Speaker 3: consensual nudes, the bullying, the just the rubbish that goes

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Speaker 3: around on social media, working really hard, working really hard

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Speaker 3: with politicians, working really hard with movers and shakers to

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Speaker 3: get some legislation over the line to protect our kids

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Speaker 3: age thirteen to sixteen. Everyone's talking about it. It's a

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Speaker 3: really big deal, and more and more politicians are starting

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Speaker 3: to get behind. I think politicians have taken the snip

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Speaker 3: of the air and said, oh, this could be a

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Speaker 3: vote winner. This work. We've got parents who are really

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Speaker 3: worried about it. Maybe that's a bit cynical of me,

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Speaker 3: but I think that they're getting the message and they're

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Speaker 3: heading in that direction. I fully support what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: I really love the concept. And just you know, thinking

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Speaker 2: about thirty six months, it just made me think about

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Speaker 2: the wrestle we've had as parents about whether or not

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Speaker 2: to start our children at school at earlier ages. We've

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Speaker 2: gone both ways. We've had a child going very early

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Speaker 2: because of her birthday cut off, and then recognized with

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Speaker 2: time that that probably wasn't the best option, and so

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Speaker 2: we held our other daughter back from starting school and

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Speaker 2: she got to enjoy.

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Speaker 3: An extra twelve months of childhood.

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Speaker 2: Of child and it really made such a different right.

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Speaker 2: And when I see that and marry that up with

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about here, and giving our children, our

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Speaker 2: preteens and early teens, another chance to just be kids

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Speaker 2: for a little bit longer. I just I applaud them

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Speaker 2: for even trying.

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Speaker 3: So the groundswell is heading in this direction. Here's some

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Speaker 3: really interesting research. Some studies were done a few years

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Speaker 3: ago highlighting that if you want to create social change,

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Speaker 3: you've got to get twenty five percent of the population

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Speaker 3: behind you. Once you've got twenty five percent, that's the

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Speaker 3: tipping point, and that's when the momentum really starts to flow.

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Speaker 3: I believe that the menum is there. The momentum is shifting,

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Speaker 3: and it's really strong, and that's why politicians are getting

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Speaker 3: behind it. Earlier this year, we had Julian mcgrant on,

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Speaker 3: she's the e Safety Commissioner, and we were talking about

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Speaker 3: how the federal government had refused last year her recommendation

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Speaker 3: for age verification technology to keep kids away from explicit

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Speaker 3: content online. They just said, no, we're not going to

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Speaker 3: do it. She just was suggesting a pilot, just a trial,

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Speaker 3: let's see if we can get it going. Federal government

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Speaker 3: said no. They've backflipped on that. Now hallelujah. And they've

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Speaker 3: said they're going to do that. Why because the public

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Speaker 3: are begging. The public are begging for protection for kids.

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Speaker 3: What whippers trying to do here? I love it. Now,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be a little bit of a I

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Speaker 3: don't know, I'm going to poopil it a little bit

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Speaker 3: as well. Though. The problem is, I don't think we

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Speaker 3: can wait for legislation. It's going to take a long time.

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Speaker 3: Doing it state by state won't work. It's got to

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Speaker 3: be federal. It has to happen at the commonwealth level.

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Speaker 3: If it happens at the state level, there's just going

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Speaker 3: to be too much inconsistency and that will cause problems

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Speaker 3: at the federal level. Australia is, in so many ways

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Speaker 3: kind of at the whim or mercy of what America does.

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Speaker 3: As America goes, so goes the rest of the world. However,

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Speaker 3: it's possible that we could create the age verification technologies.

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Speaker 3: But by the time this stuff gets legislated and then

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Speaker 3: the technologies are developed and implemented, oh my goodness, not

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Speaker 3: to mention if the companies like Meta decided to challenge

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Speaker 3: it in court, this could be a three four, five, eight,

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Speaker 3: ten year process, and frankly, I don't think we've got

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Speaker 3: that much time, So there's a lot of reasons why

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Speaker 3: this might not work. The top down approach is always

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Speaker 3: problematic as well, because if people don't like it, they

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Speaker 3: won't get behind it and they'll rebel against it. And

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Speaker 3: we have those issues.

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Speaker 2: But I think what you're seeing, especially as you go

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Speaker 2: into communities, is parents are They're begging for it. They're

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Speaker 2: begging for somebody else to kind of create the safe

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Speaker 2: playground for their kids. As parents. You talk about peer

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Speaker 2: pressure for kids, but as adults we feel it too.

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Speaker 2: It's so intense, and when you feel like you're the

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Speaker 2: only parent in the whole wide world who's stopping your

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Speaker 2: kids from joining in, it can be really, really, really hard.

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Speaker 2: And for most of us, we struggle to make that

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Speaker 2: stand because we fear that our kids are going to

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Speaker 2: miss out.

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Speaker 3: Quick story this year, I reckon I've done about one

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Speaker 3: hundred and thirty presentations already. It's been such a busy

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Speaker 3: year for me, traveling, giving presentations, corporate's keynotes, whatever, at schools.

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Speaker 3: But I was in a school and a mom put

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Speaker 3: up a hand and said, I've got this, I've got

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Speaker 3: this issue. Where my child keeps telling me that she's

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Speaker 3: the only one that doesn't have social media in a smartphone.

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Speaker 3: And I said, how old is your child? She said twelve.

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Speaker 3: I said to everyone in the room, can you please

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Speaker 3: put up your hand if your children are twelve and

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Speaker 3: don't have social media in a smartphone. About sixty percent

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Speaker 3: of hands went up, and I said, she's lying. Kids

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Speaker 3: have got so much energy for this, like they want

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Speaker 3: it so badly, and that's why we're doing so much

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Speaker 3: with this. Can we really unpluge childhood? Here's what I

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Speaker 3: want to emphasize. If we can delay by committing to

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Speaker 3: keeping smartphones and social media out of primary school and

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Speaker 3: giving our children a play based childhood, we're already setting

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Speaker 3: ourselves up for more success. And this is a bottom

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Speaker 3: up approach. We don't have to wait for the politicians.

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Speaker 3: We can do this now. If we can build a

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Speaker 3: community so that that mum can look around and say,

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Speaker 3: all of these other parents are doing the same thing,

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Speaker 3: but my kids are socially isolated, so let me use

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Speaker 3: the platforms that as an adult, I'm old enough to

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Speaker 3: you to coordinate what's necessary for my kids to have

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Speaker 3: the community around them and to have the social exposure

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Speaker 3: and engagement and involvement that they need. That works. Let's

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Speaker 3: stick together and create the village again. And then when

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Speaker 3: the time comes number three, go slow. When the time

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Speaker 3: comes that you want to try to have a phone

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Speaker 3: for safety reason, start with a dumb phone, because kids

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Speaker 3: don't need smart phones. They need smart parents, and smart

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Speaker 3: parents give their kids dumb phones. Have the conversation about

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Speaker 3: social media slowly. That to me, if Whipper and I

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Speaker 3: could combine forces and he's got the top down focus

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Speaker 3: with the politicians and the legislation, which will take a

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Speaker 3: few years, and in the meantime, we just focus on

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Speaker 3: what we already know. Kids don't need smartphones and they

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Speaker 3: don't need social media, and we all band together and

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Speaker 3: make this work. It can actually happen. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 3: I've created a website. I don't know if you knew

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Speaker 3: that I've created a website to help with this. We'll

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Speaker 3: link to the website in the show night. So we're

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Speaker 3: going to be talking about on the podcast NonStop. There's

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Speaker 3: just so much that we can do to help our

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Speaker 3: kids feel better about life and be safe. And that's

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Speaker 3: what I want to emphasize. That's really what I what

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Speaker 3: I want emphasize.

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Speaker 2: I've shared recently that I downloaded Snapchat so that I

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Speaker 2: could stay in touch with some of the youth that

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Speaker 2: I'm working with at the moment. I've actually been so

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Speaker 2: happily surprised at how many don't have it, and I

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Speaker 2: just applaud parents who are willing to be the baddie

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Speaker 2: yeah in their kids' worlds in an effort to protect them.

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Speaker 3: So we will link to both our website to get

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Speaker 3: your grassroots involvement as well as what Whip is doing

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Speaker 3: with thirty six months. We'll link to that in the

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Speaker 3: show notes. I have some reservations about whether or not

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Speaker 3: we can make it work, but gee, I really really

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Speaker 3: hope we can. I think that the momentum is there

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Speaker 3: and we can make this happen. I hope you've enjoyed

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Speaker 3: this week in parenting Today. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 3: produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is

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Speaker 3: our executive producer. More information is available I'm making your

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Speaker 3: family Happier at Happy families dot com dot au