Speaker 1: Hey, this is Christian O'Connell. This is a very different
Speaker 1: kind of I would even call it podcasts that we're
Speaker 1: putting out, but it's just something Jack and I want
Speaker 1: to do after conversation we had and the lead up
Speaker 1: to and around are You Okay Day? So wherever you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, whether it's in Australia or it's anywhere else, wherever,
Speaker 1: you enjoy what we do. Are You Okay Day? It's
Speaker 1: a great thing. It's a thing they do in Australia
Speaker 1: once a year, and it's about that. It's about starting
Speaker 1: a conversation with someone you think might be struggling, whether
Speaker 1: that's a family member, someone at work, one of your friends.
Speaker 1: The are You Okay is it's offering them a bridge.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's also about asking yourself the same question.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's very hard for us to face our pain.
Speaker 1: We're not very good at that. We want to look
Speaker 1: the other way. We actually find it easier to help
Speaker 1: somebody else rather than actually extend that out to ourselves.
Speaker 1: So whenever you listen to this, if you are struggling,
Speaker 1: here's a story from Jack post on the show. You
Speaker 1: might not have known of the last couple of months
Speaker 1: he's got on or off the show. He's been going
Speaker 1: through a really really tough but he did something really
Speaker 1: amazing and courageous. As you're about to hear from Jack,
Speaker 1: he actually accepted that he was struggling and he got help.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you now he's in a completely
Speaker 1: different place. He's actually a better person for it. Our
Speaker 1: pain can can transform us and actually do us something
Speaker 1: really really special. But it starts with you accepting you
Speaker 1: need help. You're struggling. It's human to struggle, it is
Speaker 1: not human to be alone with it. So when Jack
Speaker 1: and I started to talk, and we'd be talking a
Speaker 1: lot over the last couple of months, as you want
Speaker 1: to hear, we actually went on for about twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: So obviously for the radio show we need to chop
Speaker 1: that down, but I wanted to put this out in full.
Speaker 1: Jack is okay with this because I actually think it
Speaker 1: could help somebody. I know, eight years ago my life,
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have heard something like this.
Speaker 1: It would have made me get help sooner. So if
Speaker 1: you are struggling at the moment, you can take the
Speaker 1: small risk, a small step and tell someone around you.
Speaker 1: There are also services that are waiting for your call.
Speaker 1: Lifeline is one of them. On thirteen eleven fourteen. Beyond
Speaker 1: Blue also do brilliant service. You can call them today
Speaker 1: one three hundred double two four six three six. Do
Speaker 1: not be alone in your pain. I hope you get
Speaker 1: something from Jack's story. How have a listened to this? All? Right?
Speaker 1: So Jack, tell me then about the last couple of months.
Speaker 1: You've had a really tough time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, actually, Okay, day. I'm looking at it
Speaker 2: differently this year because I've always thought it's such an
Speaker 2: important day to have, and I've always tried to be
Speaker 2: consciously there for my mates and for my family, trying
Speaker 2: to ask those questions and probabe and trying to find
Speaker 2: out how people feel. And this is the first year
Speaker 2: where I'm seeing it from a different side of it,
Speaker 2: where I've come through something really difficult, and it kind
Speaker 2: of means something different to me now because there's the
Speaker 2: people in my life who made me talk about what
Speaker 2: I went through that really saved me from a terrible space.
Speaker 2: And you were one of those people. My wife was
Speaker 2: one of those people, my mum was one of those people.
Speaker 2: It started when my son was born in March and
Speaker 2: you remember how gidy I was during the pregnancy, Like
Speaker 2: I was so excited for it, I couldn't wait. I
Speaker 2: felt like I was across everything, like I was trying
Speaker 2: to learn as much as I could about the pregnancy.
Speaker 2: I was trying to make it perfect for the anchor
Speaker 2: on the day. And I felt like in my own review,
Speaker 2: like I did a ten out of ten job of
Speaker 2: being a husband during that period and right up to
Speaker 2: the birth. And then something changed after he was born,
Speaker 2: and it was really strange.
Speaker 1: Hey, take your time, mate, It was some It just yeah,
Speaker 1: this is all still really happening for you. And I
Speaker 1: know you are in a better place but now, but
Speaker 1: you were in a really really you were in a
Speaker 1: really toughest place because paper where everyone expects you to be. Hey,
Speaker 1: your son's here, you're a dad, and you have all
Speaker 1: these expectations and somehow this image of who you want
Speaker 1: to be, who you should be, and then when you're
Speaker 1: having a really tough time, that gap between who you
Speaker 1: think you should be and who you really are when
Speaker 1: you're struggling, it's horrendous, it's frightening. It pains you into
Speaker 1: very small. Everything's too big, everything's too much, and you think, well,
Speaker 1: I can't be I can't be struggling right now IF's
Speaker 1: just given birth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone tells you, like I even remember you and
Speaker 2: Patty saying this is like, when your child arrives, you'll
Speaker 2: feel this like incredible love that you've never felt before.
Speaker 2: It will change your life. You'll look at your baby
Speaker 2: and you'll feel like an immense, incredible amount of love.
Speaker 2: And so I sorry, man.
Speaker 1: You only say sorry. Stay with it. Jack, It's all right,
Speaker 1: It's okay, mate, Yeah, it's all right. It's been hard. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So when he was born, I was getting I was
Speaker 2: bracing for this feeling of like I'm going to feel
Speaker 2: this crazy amount of love for something that I'm just
Speaker 2: meeting for the first time, and it didn't come to
Speaker 2: me in that room. It didn't come to me straight away.
Speaker 2: I was so excited that he was born healthy and
Speaker 2: safe and that he came and that Bianc was safe
Speaker 2: and well. And I felt an immense love for Bianca
Speaker 2: to seen what she went through during the pregnancy. But
Speaker 2: to him, I didn't immediately feel a sense of connection
Speaker 2: to him. And that's really hard for me to say,
Speaker 2: like I just felt. I guess what I felt. It's
Speaker 2: just guilt and shame of like bringing this little guy
Speaker 2: into the world, who are mental love so much and
Speaker 2: I can't feel that for.
Speaker 1: Him, but chat you can't. You Actually, the pain you
Speaker 1: feel right now is that you is the love you
Speaker 1: have for him. You do have love for him, It's
Speaker 1: just that you had so much other stuff going on.
Speaker 1: It's a it was a huge kind of moment in
Speaker 1: your life, and I think you were there was like
Speaker 1: a part of you was was was ending. It was
Speaker 1: a painful ending, you know, it's a it's a it's
Speaker 1: a big thing you've gone through.
Speaker 2: Thankfully that I didn't have that feeling anymore now I
Speaker 2: love him so much and that but that didn't come
Speaker 2: for three months, and it's that was a really scary time.
Speaker 2: And what happened to me in those three months on
Speaker 2: top of having that feeling is I went through what
Speaker 2: is called a post natal depression, something I didn't even
Speaker 2: think that father and new fathers could get. I thought
Speaker 2: it was something that we had to be worried about
Speaker 2: for Bianca because I know it could be a high
Speaker 2: rate of personator depression in New mums and I was
Speaker 2: and I was the one feeling it to points where
Speaker 2: I was like some nights, I was sitting alone on
Speaker 2: like the floor of his nursery, just with my head
Speaker 2: between my knees, crying uncontrollably, and I couldn't I didn't
Speaker 2: know why. I couldn't figure out why it was happening.
Speaker 2: I couldn't figure out why, and.
Speaker 1: He must have felt so. We live in a shame
Speaker 1: based culture, so you would have felt ashamed. I'm not
Speaker 1: allowed to feel like this. This is not this can't
Speaker 1: be happening.
Speaker 2: I felt an immense amount of shame in multiple ways.
Speaker 2: Shame that I felt like I didn't connect with my son,
Speaker 2: incredible shame that I felt like Bianca was the one
Speaker 2: who did all the work. She brought him into the world,
Speaker 2: she went through the pregnancy, She's the one breastfeeding him,
Speaker 2: and I'm the one who has depression and he's crawling
Speaker 2: on the floor. I felt so much guilt and shame
Speaker 2: and embarrassment about that.
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 2: Felt embarrassed that I was a dad who had depression
Speaker 2: of postnatal depression, and I didn't For the first couple
Speaker 2: of months of going through it, I didn't even say
Speaker 2: that I had that, and I didn't want to acknowledge
Speaker 2: that word. I didn't want to attribute that word to
Speaker 2: me because I felt like it didn't apply to me.
Speaker 2: And it actually using that word and getting help and
Speaker 2: understanding it made it a lot easier to talk with
Speaker 2: people about it, to talk with my family, to talk
Speaker 2: with you guys here at the station. It actually lifted
Speaker 2: a lot of weight off my shoulders, being able to say, like,
Speaker 2: I'm going through some sort of depression at the moment,
Speaker 2: even though I pushed against it for so long.
Speaker 1: And it's the hardest thing in the world is to
Speaker 1: actually be honest with ourselves. Yeah, it's so hard. And
Speaker 1: I remember when I have my sort of breakdown, it
Speaker 1: was the why can't I keep my shit together? I
Speaker 1: felt less of a man, a man that I'm not
Speaker 1: a good husband, I'm not a good dad. And these
Speaker 1: thoughts are terrifying. They really, I think they stop you
Speaker 1: from thinking that you're even allowed to ask for help.
Speaker 1: They make you feel very lonely alone with it.
Speaker 2: Tell me if you did this like I felt like.
Speaker 2: As it was getting worse, I just had to clench
Speaker 2: my drawer and like get through it. Like them, I
Speaker 2: just go work harder to get through.
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember that Friday where you've done the show,
Speaker 1: but you were there but not there. And I remember
Speaker 1: looking at you a couple of times, and you were
Speaker 1: where I was about seven eight years ago, where you
Speaker 1: were actually hanging on, you know, the same you're hanging
Speaker 1: on for dear life. You were hanging on to the
Speaker 1: studio desk. Which is why I said after the show,
Speaker 1: Friday said, you're really struggling on because I could recognize
Speaker 1: where I was, and like, oh my god, you poor thing.
Speaker 1: You know, you must be feeling so bad that you're
Speaker 1: not having You're not where you should be right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's amazing. I think that people saw it,
Speaker 2: people who saw it in me before I did, because
Speaker 2: when you had that discussion with me, and it was
Speaker 2: a few shows where I really felt like I couldn't
Speaker 2: cope and I was just waiting for nine am to
Speaker 2: come just so I could get out of here because
Speaker 2: I I was feeling just not myself. I feel like
Speaker 2: I couldn't keep up with the conversation. And after the
Speaker 2: show a couple of times I just broke out in tears.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you remember that there's a
Speaker 2: moment where you sat with me for a long while
Speaker 2: after the show and you end up putting your hands
Speaker 2: on my shoulders and he said you need to take
Speaker 2: time off the show, and I was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm just tired. It's just like overwhelming. But I'll be
Speaker 2: all right. And you're like, no, I'm not letting you
Speaker 2: come in Monday. You're taking time off the show. And
Speaker 2: I did take two weeks off the show, which another
Speaker 2: thing I felt a lot of shame for and a
Speaker 2: lot of guilt about, because I wanted to prove that
Speaker 2: I was strong enough to come back to work quickly
Speaker 2: and then I could be here.
Speaker 1: And that language we use, you know, prove to who?
Speaker 1: Who are you proven to? Actually you're what? Real courage
Speaker 1: and strength is actually being honest with yourself and people
Speaker 1: around you. That's real courage. And saying I'm struggling at
Speaker 1: the moment, I need some how, i need some space.
Speaker 1: Those are the hardest words to say. It's the being
Speaker 1: alone with our pain, which causes so much suffering all
Speaker 1: around the world. It's that, yeah, well, if you had
Speaker 1: something wrong physically, you were not feel embarrassed about and
Speaker 1: I'm going to go and see someone who can help
Speaker 1: help this right now. But why is it with the
Speaker 1: hardest stuff to be with, which is our own emotional
Speaker 1: pain that we feel so bad that we were not
Speaker 1: worthy of getting help. And yeah, I know that if
Speaker 1: any of this team, or Bianca Kanchu said I'm really
Speaker 1: struggling moment, can you help you? You drop everything? Of course?
Speaker 1: Why won't you extend that Why don't we extend that
Speaker 1: kindness to ourselves? Why do we find that so hard?
Speaker 2: Well, I remember convincing myself during it that it's so
Speaker 2: funny because you hear this time and time again like this.
Speaker 2: If I tell people about this, it's just going to
Speaker 2: be a burden on them. They're going to they're going
Speaker 2: to think, oh, Bianca is the one who had the baby,
Speaker 2: why are you going through something?
Speaker 1: Well, I remember meeting who I want to make sure
Speaker 1: you meet me by the oak tree tangle car. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that did help. But anyway, when
Speaker 1: you were sitting then you actually said to me, look,
Speaker 1: thanks for it for let me have some time off
Speaker 1: and you know, I will pay you back. And I
Speaker 1: remember getting quite tiff, like you don't what do you?
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: I remember saying the yes, let me took.
Speaker 1: Jack start to my alleger and I was just like,
Speaker 1: what kind of you mean? You think I am going
Speaker 1: to go and make a note on my phone and
Speaker 1: a spreadsheet? Well I won't need that back. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: we do feel like that. You feel a burden and
Speaker 1: on a daylight today, are you okay? Day? It's really
Speaker 1: really hard, even if someone sends you that message. Sometimes
Speaker 1: all right, right now, there's a part of you is
Speaker 1: desperate actually screaming once ago. No I'm not, but you're
Speaker 1: wide about telling somebody that.
Speaker 2: Definitely. I think there's a social implication that you fall
Speaker 2: into you where you're like, you know what, it's just
Speaker 2: easier to not burden everybody. I appreciate the gesture, but
Speaker 2: I'll just say I'm fine. Yeah, And I know that
Speaker 2: was with me. It took you repeated attempts, I think
Speaker 2: you or what was happening to me, And it took
Speaker 2: repeated attempts for me to admit it. Similar thing with
Speaker 2: my mum, similar thing with Bianca. I mean they saw
Speaker 2: me during those moments of crying uncontrollably, and you saw
Speaker 2: me breaking down after the show, and I was still
Speaker 2: reticent to believe what was going on, but I needed
Speaker 2: to because you were opening it up and talking about
Speaker 2: it and just letting it. It takes such a burden
Speaker 2: off your back. You just can't believe the burden it
Speaker 2: takes off you. Or already I felt half as overwhelmed
Speaker 2: as I was feeling when it was really bad.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like someone you need breathing space, and
Speaker 1: it's like you almost feel like you're drowning it. All
Speaker 1: your thoughts and all your worries and all the emotions,
Speaker 1: they're just overwhelming and you need someone or somewhere of
Speaker 1: slamming it all down and getting some air pockets to
Speaker 1: just get a little bit of room that you can
Speaker 1: just expand into, because suddenly you become very tight with everything,
Speaker 1: don't you. You can strict. You just need an extra
Speaker 1: bit of space to breathe out and to be able
Speaker 1: to talk about it and work through it. And you
Speaker 1: needed that. I needed that seventy eight years ago, but
Speaker 1: I didn't do it the right way. And so when
Speaker 1: I saw what was going on with you, it's a
Speaker 1: chance to be to help somebody, and you did the well.
Speaker 1: I think it's still incredible you went and actually got help.
Speaker 1: It takes tremendous amount of courage. It's hard to actually
Speaker 1: go and accept and go and see a therapist because
Speaker 1: my first couple of sessions, I was an angry, relactant,
Speaker 1: reluctant patient. There I was. I shouldn't be here. I
Speaker 1: thought it was the screw ups. I'm not one of those.
Speaker 1: Why am I here? I felt? In fact, my dad
Speaker 1: had to work for forty years and a calf factory.
Speaker 1: He couldn't do this. What's wrong with me? I'm weak,
Speaker 1: I'm not a man, all of that cry.
Speaker 2: And then I went through all of that, and you're
Speaker 2: hesitant to go and see somebody who's a professional, who's
Speaker 2: there for these things, and they're just waiting to have
Speaker 2: this conversation with you. But you convince yourself like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go in there and say this is me,
Speaker 2: of like, get out. I only deal with real trauma.
Speaker 2: This is nothing that you're just being weak. Go suck
Speaker 2: it up. Of course they're not going to say that,
Speaker 2: but you you just I don't know why I was
Speaker 2: so reluctant to go see somebody, but thank god I did,
Speaker 2: and you put me onto a therapist and she, honestly
Speaker 2: it changed everything. Telling you and Bianco and my mum
Speaker 2: about what was going on with me, and then going
Speaker 2: to see a therapist combined change within a month and
Speaker 2: within two months it already felt amazing.
Speaker 1: And this is why why it's what you're doing is
Speaker 1: amazing talking about this right is because actually the transformation,
Speaker 1: the changes, getting to a different place, a different understanding.
Speaker 1: It's not about curing it or overcoming it or any
Speaker 1: of that kind of language. Is actually not as far
Speaker 1: away as you think it is. When you're really in it,
Speaker 1: you can't imagine ever being how you were. It's unthinkable.
Speaker 1: Everything is right in front of your face. There's no perspective,
Speaker 1: there's no sunny days that you can imagine. It's all glue.
Speaker 1: But actually, once you start to talk about it, and
Speaker 1: it isn't is even because we worry sometimes if I
Speaker 1: say are you okay? What do I then say to
Speaker 1: the tuner having a tough time, it's actually someone hearing
Speaker 1: you to your wife and you know, and you go,
Speaker 1: after they've told you everything, you go, you know what
Speaker 1: you should do, and they go, I'm okay, now thanks
Speaker 1: for listening, and I'm quite stressed with this. You need
Speaker 1: to do this actually is just allowing someone to be
Speaker 1: heard without being judged is all you need to be
Speaker 1: you just need to be a witness sometimes.
Speaker 2: And this has made me a better communicator with my
Speaker 2: wife because now I can be a better listener to her.
Speaker 2: And I was that person before that try to fix
Speaker 2: everything as it comes up. But some things you just
Speaker 2: need to feel and you just need to talk about.
Speaker 1: And you didn't need fixing. Actually you needed to stay
Speaker 1: with your pain and work out what was behind it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, one funny thing that you said to me
Speaker 2: during that time is like, you look back on this,
Speaker 2: you go through it, You'll grow and you'll look back
Speaker 2: on this and it will it will be a gift
Speaker 2: for you. You'll see this.
Speaker 1: Gift at the time this guy that's such bullshit, Thank
Speaker 1: you for trying to sugarcoat it.
Speaker 2: But that will never happen to me. And it's funny, like,
Speaker 2: in less than six months, I already feel grateful for
Speaker 2: that experience. I feel like I have a deeper empathy
Speaker 2: for people. I feel like I have less judgment for people.
Speaker 2: I feel like I could communicate better with my wife,
Speaker 2: my friends. I've already had discussions with my friends who've
Speaker 2: been friends with for over twenty years and I never
Speaker 2: know they know and they went through a hard time
Speaker 2: until I told them what I went through this year.
Speaker 1: And what did it bring you? Only ever brings you
Speaker 1: closer to me. I think it's going to make us
Speaker 1: feel judged, separated, It only ever brings you. I know
Speaker 1: I'm closer to you now because of what's what's been
Speaker 1: going on for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredibly difficult to take those first steps of
Speaker 2: opening it up and everything. I remember the feeling of
Speaker 2: everything inside you is going. Just grit and bear it.
Speaker 2: Don't want burning people with it. But it was life
Speaker 2: changing and it had to be done telling having you know,
Speaker 2: having Bianca know about it, having my friends and family
Speaker 2: know about it changed and the support was overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker 1: And what did you see? You saw that people.
Speaker 2: We want to have people care like I even was
Speaker 2: worried about the state, like taking time off the radio
Speaker 2: show and feeling guilty about that. But even so, the boss,
Speaker 2: you know, like we joke sometimes that she's meant to us,
Speaker 2: but she was so lovely, she was so understanding. She
Speaker 2: didn't make me feel any guilt about coming back. Quickly
Speaker 2: she gave me assurances that my job will still be
Speaker 2: here when I come back. Having that assurance from you
Speaker 2: as well, and for you and Patsy and Rio to
Speaker 2: hold onto the show while I wasn't here and to
Speaker 2: give me that space, and just but above all, to
Speaker 2: feel the love from you all, to feel the love
Speaker 2: coming back in here again, and a deeper connection with
Speaker 2: everybody who works on the show and everybody who have
Speaker 2: told I.
Speaker 1: Think sometimes that's what our pain is for, is actually
Speaker 1: to connect us to people because I don't know about you.
Speaker 1: Is that I feel closer to friends of mine or
Speaker 1: people when they do open up and say I'm really
Speaker 1: struggling at the moment, I actually feel closer to them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like you connect on a deeper level, you know,
Speaker 1: And I do with you, and I know. I saw
Speaker 1: you on Father's Day. It's amazing how Sunday was Father's Day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I saw how you were with Gordon, and I
Speaker 1: saw how you were with your wife. That's his You've
Speaker 1: been through your dark knight the soul, but you are
Speaker 1: in a better place.
Speaker 2: I am, Oh, no doubt about it at all. And
Speaker 2: I wasn't. Yeah. It's funny to think only three months
Speaker 2: ago I wasn't like that, and now I can't think
Speaker 2: of anything but out of love for him, for Bianca,
Speaker 2: for life like I get zest for life back, looking
Speaker 2: forward to things again and enjoying doing the show, enjoying
Speaker 2: doing my work. So I want to thank you, obviously,
Speaker 2: want to thank my wife. She was amazing through all
Speaker 2: the support. And if you're going, if you feel like
Speaker 2: this resonates with you, like you're in a feeling where
Speaker 2: you feel like you can't tell everybody and it will
Speaker 2: be a burden for people. People will be better off
Speaker 2: without you. I implore you to feel what it's like
Speaker 2: on the other side of just making that first step
Speaker 2: of telling somebody about it and saying, hey, I'm not
Speaker 2: okay at the moment, this is how I'm feeling, and
Speaker 2: see the reaction that comes back, because I think it
Speaker 2: will surprise you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like you make yourself a prisoner in
Speaker 1: your own cell with it, and actually the moment you
Speaker 1: start talking about it, you walk right out. Freedom Actually
Speaker 1: isn't that far away. It's not easy. You've actually put
Speaker 1: in work, you know you've got You've turned up every week,
Speaker 1: you've gone on a sort of therapist, you've spoken to bank,
Speaker 1: you've you've had very honest conversations. But it's changed everything
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: YEA and the work. The work is hard, but it's
Speaker 2: a lot better than being in that situation where you
Speaker 2: really feel like there is no physical place for you
Speaker 2: to be on earth and that you want to disappear,
Speaker 2: which is an awful, awful feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like sometimes you know, we're frightened to go
Speaker 1: towards our pain, but actually when you do sit with
Speaker 1: it and you have help in doing that as well,
Speaker 1: is there are I know this sounds really odd, but
Speaker 1: there are these kind of gifts that you get afterwards.
Speaker 1: There is learning from it. There is actually I know
Speaker 1: you've changed for the better, which is a strange thing
Speaker 1: to say out a tough, tough time, but you have.
Speaker 1: I can just see it been around you last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks.
Speaker 2: And the ability now to have conversations with people that
Speaker 2: I used to think would be dark and difficult to
Speaker 2: hear about somebody's pain. When you felt a deep pain,
Speaker 2: you have an immense understanding.
Speaker 1: It gives you empathy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you come at it with empathy and understanding
Speaker 2: and go I don't know exactly what you're going through
Speaker 2: and what you feel, but I tell you what I've
Speaker 2: felt pain, and I can recognize.
Speaker 1: It in you.
Speaker 2: And that all that connects you and at lists that
Speaker 2: person up and takes their burden off them, and it
Speaker 2: shares it.
Speaker 1: Do you know what it will? You are an amazing
Speaker 1: dad because you've put the work in already for you
Speaker 1: and Gordon, You're son. Gordon will have tough times later
Speaker 1: on then and in his life. You will be able
Speaker 1: to be a better guide, a better dad because of
Speaker 1: what you've done. You won't be in theory going oh,
Speaker 1: you just need to do this or think this. You'll go, hey,
Speaker 1: I know what that's like. You know, here's what happened
Speaker 1: to me. It will be something that will make you
Speaker 1: a better dad.
Speaker 2: Thanks for saying that, and I actually do believe that.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Man. I'm gonna ask you one last question. So if
Speaker 1: you could go back six months and you know where
Speaker 1: you were really bad, what would you tell yourself what
Speaker 1: to people who actually really need to know Jack?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I would try and tell us, tell
Speaker 2: him as earnestly as possible. It does get better. You
Speaker 2: won't feel like this forever because you convince yourself that
Speaker 2: it's never gonna go away, and trust the process of
Speaker 2: telling people they will. They will react with kindness. They
Speaker 2: won't feel you like you're a burden. Burden was a
Speaker 2: huge word for me during all of that. I didn't
Speaker 2: want to be a burden on people. Nobody felt that.
Speaker 2: I only got a positive response from opening up.
Speaker 1: Well done, mate, it's really it's amazing what you've done today.
Speaker 1: And I'm also I also got to say to Jack
Speaker 1: Jack's courage, what you've been on the last couple of
Speaker 1: months is incredible and it's even better seeing you today
Speaker 1: and just how you are Father's Day, how you were
Speaker 1: Father's Day a couple of days ago as well. Well
Speaker 1: done on what you've been through and thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing everybody.
Speaker 2: Thanks for all your help mate, Thank you