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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Christian O'Connell. This is a very different

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Speaker 1: kind of I would even call it podcasts that we're

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Speaker 1: putting out, but it's just something Jack and I want

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Speaker 1: to do after conversation we had and the lead up

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Speaker 1: to and around are You Okay Day? So wherever you're

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Speaker 1: listening to this, whether it's in Australia or it's anywhere else, wherever,

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Speaker 1: you enjoy what we do. Are You Okay Day? It's

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Speaker 1: a great thing. It's a thing they do in Australia

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Speaker 1: once a year, and it's about that. It's about starting

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Speaker 1: a conversation with someone you think might be struggling, whether

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Speaker 1: that's a family member, someone at work, one of your friends.

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Speaker 1: The are You Okay is it's offering them a bridge.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it's also about asking yourself the same question.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it's very hard for us to face our pain.

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Speaker 1: We're not very good at that. We want to look

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Speaker 1: the other way. We actually find it easier to help

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Speaker 1: somebody else rather than actually extend that out to ourselves.

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Speaker 1: So whenever you listen to this, if you are struggling,

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Speaker 1: here's a story from Jack post on the show. You

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Speaker 1: might not have known of the last couple of months

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Speaker 1: he's got on or off the show. He's been going

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Speaker 1: through a really really tough but he did something really

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Speaker 1: amazing and courageous. As you're about to hear from Jack,

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Speaker 1: he actually accepted that he was struggling and he got help.

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Speaker 1: And I can tell you now he's in a completely

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Speaker 1: different place. He's actually a better person for it. Our

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Speaker 1: pain can can transform us and actually do us something

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Speaker 1: really really special. But it starts with you accepting you

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Speaker 1: need help. You're struggling. It's human to struggle, it is

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Speaker 1: not human to be alone with it. So when Jack

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Speaker 1: and I started to talk, and we'd be talking a

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Speaker 1: lot over the last couple of months, as you want

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Speaker 1: to hear, we actually went on for about twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: So obviously for the radio show we need to chop

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Speaker 1: that down, but I wanted to put this out in full.

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Speaker 1: Jack is okay with this because I actually think it

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Speaker 1: could help somebody. I know, eight years ago my life,

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Speaker 1: I would have loved to have heard something like this.

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Speaker 1: It would have made me get help sooner. So if

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Speaker 1: you are struggling at the moment, you can take the

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Speaker 1: small risk, a small step and tell someone around you.

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Speaker 1: There are also services that are waiting for your call.

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Speaker 1: Lifeline is one of them. On thirteen eleven fourteen. Beyond

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Speaker 1: Blue also do brilliant service. You can call them today

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Speaker 1: one three hundred double two four six three six. Do

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Speaker 1: not be alone in your pain. I hope you get

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Speaker 1: something from Jack's story. How have a listened to this? All? Right?

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Speaker 1: So Jack, tell me then about the last couple of months.

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Speaker 1: You've had a really tough time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, actually, Okay, day. I'm looking at it

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Speaker 2: differently this year because I've always thought it's such an

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Speaker 2: important day to have, and I've always tried to be

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Speaker 2: consciously there for my mates and for my family, trying

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Speaker 2: to ask those questions and probabe and trying to find

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Speaker 2: out how people feel. And this is the first year

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Speaker 2: where I'm seeing it from a different side of it,

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Speaker 2: where I've come through something really difficult, and it kind

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Speaker 2: of means something different to me now because there's the

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Speaker 2: people in my life who made me talk about what

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Speaker 2: I went through that really saved me from a terrible space.

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Speaker 2: And you were one of those people. My wife was

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Speaker 2: one of those people, my mum was one of those people.

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Speaker 2: It started when my son was born in March and

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Speaker 2: you remember how gidy I was during the pregnancy, Like

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Speaker 2: I was so excited for it, I couldn't wait. I

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Speaker 2: felt like I was across everything, like I was trying

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Speaker 2: to learn as much as I could about the pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to make it perfect for the anchor

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Speaker 2: on the day. And I felt like in my own review,

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Speaker 2: like I did a ten out of ten job of

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Speaker 2: being a husband during that period and right up to

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Speaker 2: the birth. And then something changed after he was born,

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Speaker 2: and it was really strange.

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Speaker 1: Hey, take your time, mate, It was some It just yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is all still really happening for you. And I

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Speaker 1: know you are in a better place but now, but

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Speaker 1: you were in a really really you were in a

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Speaker 1: really toughest place because paper where everyone expects you to be. Hey,

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Speaker 1: your son's here, you're a dad, and you have all

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Speaker 1: these expectations and somehow this image of who you want

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Speaker 1: to be, who you should be, and then when you're

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Speaker 1: having a really tough time, that gap between who you

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Speaker 1: think you should be and who you really are when

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Speaker 1: you're struggling, it's horrendous, it's frightening. It pains you into

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Speaker 1: very small. Everything's too big, everything's too much, and you think, well,

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Speaker 1: I can't be I can't be struggling right now IF's

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Speaker 1: just given birth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone tells you, like I even remember you and

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Speaker 2: Patty saying this is like, when your child arrives, you'll

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Speaker 2: feel this like incredible love that you've never felt before.

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Speaker 2: It will change your life. You'll look at your baby

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Speaker 2: and you'll feel like an immense, incredible amount of love.

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Speaker 2: And so I sorry, man.

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Speaker 1: You only say sorry. Stay with it. Jack, It's all right,

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Speaker 1: It's okay, mate, Yeah, it's all right. It's been hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So when he was born, I was getting I was

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Speaker 2: bracing for this feeling of like I'm going to feel

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Speaker 2: this crazy amount of love for something that I'm just

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Speaker 2: meeting for the first time, and it didn't come to

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Speaker 2: me in that room. It didn't come to me straight away.

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Speaker 2: I was so excited that he was born healthy and

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Speaker 2: safe and that he came and that Bianc was safe

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Speaker 2: and well. And I felt an immense love for Bianca

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Speaker 2: to seen what she went through during the pregnancy. But

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Speaker 2: to him, I didn't immediately feel a sense of connection

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Speaker 2: to him. And that's really hard for me to say,

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Speaker 2: like I just felt. I guess what I felt. It's

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Speaker 2: just guilt and shame of like bringing this little guy

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Speaker 2: into the world, who are mental love so much and

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Speaker 2: I can't feel that for.

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Speaker 1: Him, but chat you can't. You Actually, the pain you

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Speaker 1: feel right now is that you is the love you

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Speaker 1: have for him. You do have love for him, It's

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Speaker 1: just that you had so much other stuff going on.

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Speaker 1: It's a it was a huge kind of moment in

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Speaker 1: your life, and I think you were there was like

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Speaker 1: a part of you was was was ending. It was

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Speaker 1: a painful ending, you know, it's a it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a big thing you've gone through.

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Speaker 2: Thankfully that I didn't have that feeling anymore now I

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Speaker 2: love him so much and that but that didn't come

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Speaker 2: for three months, and it's that was a really scary time.

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Speaker 2: And what happened to me in those three months on

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Speaker 2: top of having that feeling is I went through what

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Speaker 2: is called a post natal depression, something I didn't even

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Speaker 2: think that father and new fathers could get. I thought

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Speaker 2: it was something that we had to be worried about

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Speaker 2: for Bianca because I know it could be a high

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Speaker 2: rate of personator depression in New mums and I was

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Speaker 2: and I was the one feeling it to points where

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Speaker 2: I was like some nights, I was sitting alone on

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Speaker 2: like the floor of his nursery, just with my head

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Speaker 2: between my knees, crying uncontrollably, and I couldn't I didn't

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Speaker 2: know why. I couldn't figure out why it was happening.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't figure out why, and.

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Speaker 1: He must have felt so. We live in a shame

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Speaker 1: based culture, so you would have felt ashamed. I'm not

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Speaker 1: allowed to feel like this. This is not this can't

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Speaker 1: be happening.

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Speaker 2: I felt an immense amount of shame in multiple ways.

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Speaker 2: Shame that I felt like I didn't connect with my son,

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Speaker 2: incredible shame that I felt like Bianca was the one

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Speaker 2: who did all the work. She brought him into the world,

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Speaker 2: she went through the pregnancy, She's the one breastfeeding him,

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Speaker 2: and I'm the one who has depression and he's crawling

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Speaker 2: on the floor. I felt so much guilt and shame

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Speaker 2: and embarrassment about that.

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Speaker 1: And I.

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Speaker 2: Felt embarrassed that I was a dad who had depression

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Speaker 2: of postnatal depression, and I didn't For the first couple

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Speaker 2: of months of going through it, I didn't even say

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Speaker 2: that I had that, and I didn't want to acknowledge

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Speaker 2: that word. I didn't want to attribute that word to

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Speaker 2: me because I felt like it didn't apply to me.

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Speaker 2: And it actually using that word and getting help and

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Speaker 2: understanding it made it a lot easier to talk with

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Speaker 2: people about it, to talk with my family, to talk

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Speaker 2: with you guys here at the station. It actually lifted

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Speaker 2: a lot of weight off my shoulders, being able to say, like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going through some sort of depression at the moment,

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Speaker 2: even though I pushed against it for so long.

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Speaker 1: And it's the hardest thing in the world is to

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Speaker 1: actually be honest with ourselves. Yeah, it's so hard. And

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Speaker 1: I remember when I have my sort of breakdown, it

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Speaker 1: was the why can't I keep my shit together? I

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Speaker 1: felt less of a man, a man that I'm not

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Speaker 1: a good husband, I'm not a good dad. And these

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Speaker 1: thoughts are terrifying. They really, I think they stop you

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Speaker 1: from thinking that you're even allowed to ask for help.

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Speaker 1: They make you feel very lonely alone with it.

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Speaker 2: Tell me if you did this like I felt like.

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Speaker 2: As it was getting worse, I just had to clench

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Speaker 2: my drawer and like get through it. Like them, I

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Speaker 2: just go work harder to get through.

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Speaker 1: I remember, I remember that Friday where you've done the show,

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Speaker 1: but you were there but not there. And I remember

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Speaker 1: looking at you a couple of times, and you were

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Speaker 1: where I was about seven eight years ago, where you

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Speaker 1: were actually hanging on, you know, the same you're hanging

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Speaker 1: on for dear life. You were hanging on to the

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Speaker 1: studio desk. Which is why I said after the show,

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Speaker 1: Friday said, you're really struggling on because I could recognize

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Speaker 1: where I was, and like, oh my god, you poor thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, you must be feeling so bad that you're

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Speaker 1: not having You're not where you should be right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's amazing. I think that people saw it,

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Speaker 2: people who saw it in me before I did, because

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Speaker 2: when you had that discussion with me, and it was

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Speaker 2: a few shows where I really felt like I couldn't

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Speaker 2: cope and I was just waiting for nine am to

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Speaker 2: come just so I could get out of here because

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Speaker 2: I I was feeling just not myself. I feel like

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Speaker 2: I couldn't keep up with the conversation. And after the

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Speaker 2: show a couple of times I just broke out in tears.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if you remember that there's a

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Speaker 2: moment where you sat with me for a long while

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Speaker 2: after the show and you end up putting your hands

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Speaker 2: on my shoulders and he said you need to take

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Speaker 2: time off the show, and I was like, no, I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm just tired. It's just like overwhelming. But I'll be

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Speaker 2: all right. And you're like, no, I'm not letting you

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Speaker 2: come in Monday. You're taking time off the show. And

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Speaker 2: I did take two weeks off the show, which another

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Speaker 2: thing I felt a lot of shame for and a

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Speaker 2: lot of guilt about, because I wanted to prove that

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Speaker 2: I was strong enough to come back to work quickly

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Speaker 2: and then I could be here.

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Speaker 1: And that language we use, you know, prove to who?

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Speaker 1: Who are you proven to? Actually you're what? Real courage

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Speaker 1: and strength is actually being honest with yourself and people

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Speaker 1: around you. That's real courage. And saying I'm struggling at

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Speaker 1: the moment, I need some how, i need some space.

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Speaker 1: Those are the hardest words to say. It's the being

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Speaker 1: alone with our pain, which causes so much suffering all

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Speaker 1: around the world. It's that, yeah, well, if you had

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Speaker 1: something wrong physically, you were not feel embarrassed about and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go and see someone who can help

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Speaker 1: help this right now. But why is it with the

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Speaker 1: hardest stuff to be with, which is our own emotional

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Speaker 1: pain that we feel so bad that we were not

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Speaker 1: worthy of getting help. And yeah, I know that if

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Speaker 1: any of this team, or Bianca Kanchu said I'm really

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Speaker 1: struggling moment, can you help you? You drop everything? Of course?

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Speaker 1: Why won't you extend that Why don't we extend that

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Speaker 1: kindness to ourselves? Why do we find that so hard?

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Speaker 2: Well, I remember convincing myself during it that it's so

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Speaker 2: funny because you hear this time and time again like this.

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Speaker 2: If I tell people about this, it's just going to

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Speaker 2: be a burden on them. They're going to they're going

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Speaker 2: to think, oh, Bianca is the one who had the baby,

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Speaker 2: why are you going through something?

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Speaker 1: Well, I remember meeting who I want to make sure

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Speaker 1: you meet me by the oak tree tangle car. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that did help. But anyway, when

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Speaker 1: you were sitting then you actually said to me, look,

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Speaker 1: thanks for it for let me have some time off

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Speaker 1: and you know, I will pay you back. And I

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Speaker 1: remember getting quite tiff, like you don't what do you?

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Speaker 1: What do you think?

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Speaker 2: I remember saying the yes, let me took.

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Speaker 1: Jack start to my alleger and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: what kind of you mean? You think I am going

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Speaker 1: to go and make a note on my phone and

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Speaker 1: a spreadsheet? Well I won't need that back. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: we do feel like that. You feel a burden and

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Speaker 1: on a daylight today, are you okay? Day? It's really

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Speaker 1: really hard, even if someone sends you that message. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: all right, right now, there's a part of you is

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Speaker 1: desperate actually screaming once ago. No I'm not, but you're

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Speaker 1: wide about telling somebody that.

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Speaker 2: Definitely. I think there's a social implication that you fall

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Speaker 2: into you where you're like, you know what, it's just

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Speaker 2: easier to not burden everybody. I appreciate the gesture, but

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Speaker 2: I'll just say I'm fine. Yeah, And I know that

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Speaker 2: was with me. It took you repeated attempts, I think

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Speaker 2: you or what was happening to me, And it took

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Speaker 2: repeated attempts for me to admit it. Similar thing with

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Speaker 2: my mum, similar thing with Bianca. I mean they saw

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Speaker 2: me during those moments of crying uncontrollably, and you saw

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Speaker 2: me breaking down after the show, and I was still

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Speaker 2: reticent to believe what was going on, but I needed

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Speaker 2: to because you were opening it up and talking about

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Speaker 2: it and just letting it. It takes such a burden

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Speaker 2: off your back. You just can't believe the burden it

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Speaker 2: takes off you. Or already I felt half as overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: as I was feeling when it was really bad.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like someone you need breathing space, and

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Speaker 1: it's like you almost feel like you're drowning it. All

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Speaker 1: your thoughts and all your worries and all the emotions,

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Speaker 1: they're just overwhelming and you need someone or somewhere of

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Speaker 1: slamming it all down and getting some air pockets to

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Speaker 1: just get a little bit of room that you can

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Speaker 1: just expand into, because suddenly you become very tight with everything,

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Speaker 1: don't you. You can strict. You just need an extra

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Speaker 1: bit of space to breathe out and to be able

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Speaker 1: to talk about it and work through it. And you

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Speaker 1: needed that. I needed that seventy eight years ago, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it the right way. And so when

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Speaker 1: I saw what was going on with you, it's a

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Speaker 1: chance to be to help somebody, and you did the well.

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Speaker 1: I think it's still incredible you went and actually got help.

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Speaker 1: It takes tremendous amount of courage. It's hard to actually

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Speaker 1: go and accept and go and see a therapist because

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Speaker 1: my first couple of sessions, I was an angry, relactant,

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Speaker 1: reluctant patient. There I was. I shouldn't be here. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was the screw ups. I'm not one of those.

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Speaker 1: Why am I here? I felt? In fact, my dad

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Speaker 1: had to work for forty years and a calf factory.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't do this. What's wrong with me? I'm weak,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a man, all of that cry.

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Speaker 2: And then I went through all of that, and you're

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Speaker 2: hesitant to go and see somebody who's a professional, who's

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Speaker 2: there for these things, and they're just waiting to have

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Speaker 2: this conversation with you. But you convince yourself like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to go in there and say this is me,

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Speaker 2: of like, get out. I only deal with real trauma.

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Speaker 2: This is nothing that you're just being weak. Go suck

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Speaker 2: it up. Of course they're not going to say that,

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Speaker 2: but you you just I don't know why I was

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Speaker 2: so reluctant to go see somebody, but thank god I did,

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Speaker 2: and you put me onto a therapist and she, honestly

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Speaker 2: it changed everything. Telling you and Bianco and my mum

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Speaker 2: about what was going on with me, and then going

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Speaker 2: to see a therapist combined change within a month and

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Speaker 2: within two months it already felt amazing.

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Speaker 1: And this is why why it's what you're doing is

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Speaker 1: amazing talking about this right is because actually the transformation,

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Speaker 1: the changes, getting to a different place, a different understanding.

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Speaker 1: It's not about curing it or overcoming it or any

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Speaker 1: of that kind of language. Is actually not as far

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Speaker 1: away as you think it is. When you're really in it,

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Speaker 1: you can't imagine ever being how you were. It's unthinkable.

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Speaker 1: Everything is right in front of your face. There's no perspective,

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Speaker 1: there's no sunny days that you can imagine. It's all glue.

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Speaker 1: But actually, once you start to talk about it, and

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Speaker 1: it isn't is even because we worry sometimes if I

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Speaker 1: say are you okay? What do I then say to

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Speaker 1: the tuner having a tough time, it's actually someone hearing

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Speaker 1: you to your wife and you know, and you go,

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Speaker 1: after they've told you everything, you go, you know what

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Speaker 1: you should do, and they go, I'm okay, now thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening, and I'm quite stressed with this. You need

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Speaker 1: to do this actually is just allowing someone to be

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Speaker 1: heard without being judged is all you need to be

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Speaker 1: you just need to be a witness sometimes.

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Speaker 2: And this has made me a better communicator with my

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Speaker 2: wife because now I can be a better listener to her.

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Speaker 2: And I was that person before that try to fix

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Speaker 2: everything as it comes up. But some things you just

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Speaker 2: need to feel and you just need to talk about.

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Speaker 1: And you didn't need fixing. Actually you needed to stay

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Speaker 1: with your pain and work out what was behind it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know, one funny thing that you said to me

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Speaker 2: during that time is like, you look back on this,

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Speaker 2: you go through it, You'll grow and you'll look back

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Speaker 2: on this and it will it will be a gift

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Speaker 2: for you. You'll see this.

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Speaker 1: Gift at the time this guy that's such bullshit, Thank

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Speaker 1: you for trying to sugarcoat it.

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Speaker 2: But that will never happen to me. And it's funny, like,

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Speaker 2: in less than six months, I already feel grateful for

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Speaker 2: that experience. I feel like I have a deeper empathy

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Speaker 2: for people. I feel like I have less judgment for people.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I could communicate better with my wife,

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Speaker 2: my friends. I've already had discussions with my friends who've

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Speaker 2: been friends with for over twenty years and I never

347
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Speaker 2: know they know and they went through a hard time

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Speaker 2: until I told them what I went through this year.

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Speaker 1: And what did it bring you? Only ever brings you

350
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Speaker 1: closer to me. I think it's going to make us

351
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Speaker 1: feel judged, separated, It only ever brings you. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm closer to you now because of what's what's been

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Speaker 1: going on for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's incredibly difficult to take those first steps of

355
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Speaker 2: opening it up and everything. I remember the feeling of

356
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Speaker 2: everything inside you is going. Just grit and bear it.

357
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Speaker 2: Don't want burning people with it. But it was life

358
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Speaker 2: changing and it had to be done telling having you know,

359
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Speaker 2: having Bianca know about it, having my friends and family

360
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Speaker 2: know about it changed and the support was overwhelmingly positive.

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Speaker 1: And what did you see? You saw that people.

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Speaker 2: We want to have people care like I even was

363
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Speaker 2: worried about the state, like taking time off the radio

364
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Speaker 2: show and feeling guilty about that. But even so, the boss,

365
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Speaker 2: you know, like we joke sometimes that she's meant to us,

366
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Speaker 2: but she was so lovely, she was so understanding. She

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Speaker 2: didn't make me feel any guilt about coming back. Quickly

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Speaker 2: she gave me assurances that my job will still be

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Speaker 2: here when I come back. Having that assurance from you

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Speaker 2: as well, and for you and Patsy and Rio to

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Speaker 2: hold onto the show while I wasn't here and to

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Speaker 2: give me that space, and just but above all, to

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Speaker 2: feel the love from you all, to feel the love

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Speaker 2: coming back in here again, and a deeper connection with

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Speaker 2: everybody who works on the show and everybody who have

376
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Speaker 2: told I.

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Speaker 1: Think sometimes that's what our pain is for, is actually

378
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Speaker 1: to connect us to people because I don't know about you.

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Speaker 1: Is that I feel closer to friends of mine or

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Speaker 1: people when they do open up and say I'm really

381
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 1: struggling at the moment, I actually feel closer to them. Yeah,

382
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Speaker 1: it's like you connect on a deeper level, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I do with you, and I know. I saw

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Speaker 1: you on Father's Day. It's amazing how Sunday was Father's Day. Yeah,

385
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Speaker 1: And I saw how you were with Gordon, and I

386
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Speaker 1: saw how you were with your wife. That's his You've

387
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Speaker 1: been through your dark knight the soul, but you are

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Speaker 1: in a better place.

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Speaker 2: I am, Oh, no doubt about it at all. And

390
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Speaker 2: I wasn't. Yeah. It's funny to think only three months

391
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 2: ago I wasn't like that, and now I can't think

392
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Speaker 2: of anything but out of love for him, for Bianca,

393
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 2: for life like I get zest for life back, looking

394
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Speaker 2: forward to things again and enjoying doing the show, enjoying

395
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Speaker 2: doing my work. So I want to thank you, obviously,

396
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 2: want to thank my wife. She was amazing through all

397
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Speaker 2: the support. And if you're going, if you feel like

398
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Speaker 2: this resonates with you, like you're in a feeling where

399
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Speaker 2: you feel like you can't tell everybody and it will

400
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 2: be a burden for people. People will be better off

401
00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 2: without you. I implore you to feel what it's like

402
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 2: on the other side of just making that first step

403
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 2: of telling somebody about it and saying, hey, I'm not

404
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 2: okay at the moment, this is how I'm feeling, and

405
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: see the reaction that comes back, because I think it

406
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: will surprise you.

407
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like you make yourself a prisoner in

408
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: your own cell with it, and actually the moment you

409
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 1: start talking about it, you walk right out. Freedom Actually

410
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: isn't that far away. It's not easy. You've actually put

411
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: in work, you know you've got You've turned up every week,

412
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Speaker 1: you've gone on a sort of therapist, you've spoken to bank,

413
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Speaker 1: you've you've had very honest conversations. But it's changed everything

414
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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: YEA and the work. The work is hard, but it's

416
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Speaker 2: a lot better than being in that situation where you

417
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Speaker 2: really feel like there is no physical place for you

418
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Speaker 2: to be on earth and that you want to disappear,

419
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Speaker 2: which is an awful, awful feeling.

420
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like sometimes you know, we're frightened to go

421
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 1: towards our pain, but actually when you do sit with

422
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 1: it and you have help in doing that as well,

423
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Speaker 1: is there are I know this sounds really odd, but

424
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Speaker 1: there are these kind of gifts that you get afterwards.

425
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Speaker 1: There is learning from it. There is actually I know

426
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: you've changed for the better, which is a strange thing

427
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,080
Speaker 1: to say out a tough, tough time, but you have.

428
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Speaker 1: I can just see it been around you last couple

429
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Speaker 1: of weeks.

430
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Speaker 2: And the ability now to have conversations with people that

431
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 2: I used to think would be dark and difficult to

432
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Speaker 2: hear about somebody's pain. When you felt a deep pain,

433
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Speaker 2: you have an immense understanding.

434
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: It gives you empathy.

435
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you come at it with empathy and understanding

436
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 2: and go I don't know exactly what you're going through

437
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 2: and what you feel, but I tell you what I've

438
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 2: felt pain, and I can recognize.

439
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: It in you.

440
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: And that all that connects you and at lists that

441
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: person up and takes their burden off them, and it

442
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 2: shares it.

443
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,680
Speaker 1: Do you know what it will? You are an amazing

444
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 1: dad because you've put the work in already for you

445
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: and Gordon, You're son. Gordon will have tough times later

446
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,120
Speaker 1: on then and in his life. You will be able

447
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: to be a better guide, a better dad because of

448
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 1: what you've done. You won't be in theory going oh,

449
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: you just need to do this or think this. You'll go, hey,

450
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: I know what that's like. You know, here's what happened

451
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 1: to me. It will be something that will make you

452
00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,440
Speaker 1: a better dad.

453
00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: Thanks for saying that, and I actually do believe that.

454
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: Thank you.

455
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,360
Speaker 1: Man. I'm gonna ask you one last question. So if

456
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: you could go back six months and you know where

457
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: you were really bad, what would you tell yourself what

458
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 1: to people who actually really need to know Jack?

459
00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I would try and tell us, tell

460
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 2: him as earnestly as possible. It does get better. You

461
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 2: won't feel like this forever because you convince yourself that

462
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 2: it's never gonna go away, and trust the process of

463
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: telling people they will. They will react with kindness. They

464
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: won't feel you like you're a burden. Burden was a

465
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 2: huge word for me during all of that. I didn't

466
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: want to be a burden on people. Nobody felt that.

467
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: I only got a positive response from opening up.

468
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,479
Speaker 1: Well done, mate, it's really it's amazing what you've done today.

469
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: And I'm also I also got to say to Jack

470
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: Jack's courage, what you've been on the last couple of

471
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: months is incredible and it's even better seeing you today

472
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 1: and just how you are Father's Day, how you were

473
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: Father's Day a couple of days ago as well. Well

474
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: done on what you've been through and thank you for

475
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: sharing everybody.

476
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: Thanks for all your help mate, Thank you