Speaker 1: Nine months after the disappearance of Madeline McCann, another girl
Speaker 1: went missing. A frantic mother banged on the doors of
Speaker 1: each house trying to find out where her daughter was.
Speaker 1: She had snapped at her daughter that morning and told
Speaker 1: her not to come back, and this time she didn't.
Speaker 1: It appeared this mother's worst nightmares were now coming true
Speaker 1: and this young girl would never return home. This is
Speaker 1: one of the largest police hunts in Yorkshire history since
Speaker 1: they were on the hunt for Peter Sutcliffe. This g
Speaker 1: is a disappearance of Shannon Matthews.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I know this one.
Speaker 1: No, it's fascinating, ring Ring buckel In.
Speaker 2: Whoa, Okay, he's gone with it.
Speaker 1: Hey, there, everybody, welcome to not another crime.
Speaker 2: Made me jump. But I'm Georgia La, I'm a journalist.
Speaker 1: I am not. But I'll tell you what if you
Speaker 1: want to jump yourself, well and just listen to the story,
Speaker 1: you could do that. The time code is in the
Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you for saying that. I'm also on
Speaker 1: a segway riding around the apartment as I do this,
Speaker 1: but it's a silent segway, so you wouldn't even know.
Speaker 2: I told you the story about when I saw a
Speaker 2: group of Segway tourists in Rome and I was.
Speaker 1: Laughing at the places went in Oh god, he's is
Speaker 1: it in the episode.
Speaker 2: There Go down Hill?
Speaker 1: Did everybody?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I was sitting at a restaurant. There was like
Speaker 2: a group of tourists doing like a Segway tour and
Speaker 2: I was like laughing and not like pointing at them,
Speaker 2: kind of laughing about it and looking at them being like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's most embarrassing way to tourist city.
Speaker 2: And then one of them like clocked eyes with me
Speaker 2: and start riding directly towards me. I was like, so
Speaker 2: I just did like I looked, I didn't didn't look,
Speaker 2: and then I had Georgia.
Speaker 1: I looked up.
Speaker 3: I was a girling Oh wow.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Hey, that's a cool motive transport.
Speaker 1: That is very cool that I want to do that myself.
Speaker 1: I'm walking in the opposite direction as I talked to you.
Speaker 2: Yes, So that is my life lesson to you guys,
Speaker 2: not to point and laugh at people because it's a
Speaker 2: mean thing to do and they might know that is.
Speaker 1: A good life hack. How are you this week? Laugh?
Speaker 2: You know what? Fine?
Speaker 1: You went to a good You went to Tasmania again.
Speaker 2: It's going to sound like we're repeating the episodes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'm always in free times now three times this year,
Speaker 2: once for a wine festival in Lonnie, once for a
Speaker 2: wine festival in Hobart, and this time for the first
Speaker 2: since my mom's fiftieth birthday party I've been invited to.
Speaker 2: Oh that's my first fiftieth. It's not a family one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or your right? How was it? How was it?
Speaker 1: Do you have a dance?
Speaker 2: I had a dance? So it was yeah, friend of
Speaker 2: mine who married couple who live in lawn Ssteon, and
Speaker 2: I know them from when I was working down there.
Speaker 2: And it was like on a big property and they
Speaker 2: had like a marquee set up with a dance floor
Speaker 2: and like stern lining and stuff. And it was cocktail,
Speaker 2: which I dressed in and most people didn't Blumston's lots
Speaker 2: of whiskey sour or no, yeah, that's a different that's
Speaker 2: cocktail dressed up.
Speaker 1: Okay, gotta got it. I don't get invited to anything.
Speaker 2: There was a Shetland pony on the property, like in defense,
Speaker 2: like digs more than digs, And when all the fifty
Speaker 2: year old's got really drunk. Someone said, oh, get Pedro,
Speaker 2: get Pedro, and who's Pedro? They brought Pedro Presca. That's
Speaker 2: Pedro was a Shetland pony and they brought him onto
Speaker 2: the dance floor. He dance, he didn't dance.
Speaker 1: He didn't like because they're lazy. I've always said that
Speaker 1: about SHETLMONI lazy can he digs eight notes? Shetlamponi. He's
Speaker 1: a real full horse.
Speaker 2: The most oppressing part about this party is that I
Speaker 2: did the news story when you know every year there's
Speaker 2: a story on the news the night before, like the
Speaker 2: first day of school about like prep. He's getting excited
Speaker 2: to go to school.
Speaker 1: Back to school, sale exactly.
Speaker 2: Prep for anyone out of Melbourne, well in different states
Speaker 2: and overseas, Preppy is our first year of schooling. So
Speaker 2: I had done a story at their house because they
Speaker 2: have twins, so it was like, oh, these twins are
Speaker 2: getting ready to go to school, blub blah blah. And
Speaker 2: those twins were at the party drinking alcohol as their
Speaker 2: grown ass adults. Now so I've started taking metamusal.
Speaker 1: He's going pretty well then.
Speaker 2: Walking more carefully, so I don't have a fool apart
Speaker 2: from feeling old, I am much more agile than you,
Speaker 2: despite you being three years younger than me. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because you've done your goddamn back in.
Speaker 1: I have done my back in and it is so
Speaker 1: pain fall And when you do your back, you just
Speaker 1: can't really do anything else Like that was You're going
Speaker 1: to keep moving though, that's the most painful thing. And
Speaker 1: digs digs. He's going to show you another toy as
Speaker 1: well before you sheep. Yeah, he's really cool guy. I
Speaker 1: love love my back. I've always been really touched to it,
Speaker 1: and it actually attaches most of my things together.
Speaker 2: I think, oh, that's really bad for it, really bad
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah, I don't care about mine so much,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't. I just use it for lying down
Speaker 2: on yeah, speaking of England, and I couldn't. I saw
Speaker 2: a condom rappot on the ground today. My friend and
Speaker 2: I giggled a lot about it, and I just feel
Speaker 2: it's six.
Speaker 1: You've bit sexy talking about meta mucil and stuff. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: not slipping in the shower.
Speaker 4: But.
Speaker 1: Come on now. Yeah. So I just woke up cracked
Speaker 1: my back. I heard it. Oh yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: just in so much pain I broke my leg like
Speaker 1: a few years ago and was in a moon boot
Speaker 1: for like twelve weeks. And this time I had to
Speaker 1: get up and I had to walk Digs. Then as
Speaker 1: soon as like picking up for Digs after like going
Speaker 1: for walks and everything, I was on my knees. It
Speaker 1: started raining. I was picking up Digs's dog Boo in
Speaker 1: the rainfent no, and people were walking past me. It
Speaker 1: was like the saddest sight in the world, like me
Speaker 1: just doing that and then just still looking after Digs,
Speaker 1: like he pulls sometimes on the lead. That's a bit sore.
Speaker 1: It takes about twenty minutes to put my socks on
Speaker 1: and shoes on. It Like, it's just a really really
Speaker 1: painful back injury. So it's it's been a rough time.
Speaker 1: I've had this for two days.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And when it happened, you had to go into
Speaker 2: the office despite being.
Speaker 1: That much pain.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I said to you, I finished work at one
Speaker 2: pm today. You didn't need me to go and walk Digs,
Speaker 2: so you don't have to do it when you get home.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he said that.
Speaker 2: I'd actually really helpful. Yeah, And do you want to
Speaker 2: tell the listeners what I walked into because I might
Speaker 2: gag again. I will.
Speaker 1: You messaged me and said Diggs is thrown up and
Speaker 1: he's done a lot of poo on the balcony. It
Speaker 1: was not pooh yeah, bumwees. And so Diggs had dog gastro.
Speaker 1: So then Diggs has had dog gastro and so they're not.
Speaker 1: I had about back, so i'd take Digs to the vet. Yes,
Speaker 1: that was very expensive.
Speaker 2: I cleaned the balcony. How are we not learning to
Speaker 2: turn your phone in silent? That's it?
Speaker 1: No, it's it's a Sydney number. I'm not gonna answer that.
Speaker 2: It's probably uber. We ordered dinner.
Speaker 1: Wait, no, it's not I ordered dinner.
Speaker 2: Okay, who's calling you from Sydney? There? Do you want
Speaker 2: to tell us about your girl? Stop tell us about
Speaker 2: your girl.
Speaker 1: I'm going to cut out when you're making fun of me.
Speaker 2: You're being really grumpy. It says if you're in pain
Speaker 2: or something, and I need you to get over it.
Speaker 2: I washed the balcony where Diggs had done his diarrheam,
Speaker 2: yes you did, yes, And I'm like, I'm not a
Speaker 2: gaggy person. Everything I say sounds dirty. Now do you
Speaker 2: are you? Is it just me?
Speaker 1: I'm just sexy today, I'm in pain.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not someone who, like you know, I'm fine
Speaker 2: with blood and I don't gain smells or anything. But
Speaker 2: I literally had to catch from it in my mouth
Speaker 2: because of the smell of it. It was sohiginous.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I cleaned.
Speaker 2: The whole balcony off, and then just as I was
Speaker 2: about to leave, I was like, what's he doing on
Speaker 2: the balcony. He's doing a funny thing where he's kind
Speaker 2: of squatting and walking around. Oh, he's doing more.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. He was. He was so excited.
Speaker 2: Did you ask him to do it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Wait, what.
Speaker 1: Practical joke.
Speaker 2: To diarrhy when around?
Speaker 1: And then when Georgia comes around when I'm around, that's awful.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was horrible. I thought he was dumb.
Speaker 1: He's so well, so well trained. The horrible thing about
Speaker 1: it was like put him in the car. He looked
Speaker 1: real sad, and then we got to the vet, but
Speaker 1: he was but then he was very excited to be
Speaker 1: in the vets and just chatting to the vet, get
Speaker 1: to know the vet. And then they gave me this
Speaker 1: medication and he had a little ja as well. And
Speaker 1: then I had to drop him off and then I
Speaker 1: went to the physio. Didn't take Digs to the physio.
Speaker 1: I went to the physio. It was a very expensive
Speaker 1: mud bass. It was a very expensive day. But look,
Speaker 1: we're both in recovery. At the moment, we're going to
Speaker 1: be okay. I think Diggs Digs is going to be
Speaker 1: just fine after a while, He's going to be just fine.
Speaker 1: We're not so sure about me at the moment, but
Speaker 1: I think I will be one day just fine. But
Speaker 1: when you're sleeping and you move at all and the
Speaker 1: pain is just excruciating, Like I couldn't even like even
Speaker 1: like rolling over to try and get comfortable. It was
Speaker 1: like everything was just painful. So it was a full
Speaker 1: day of that. And the physio really gave me one
Speaker 1: of those massages that they really pinpoint where it hurts.
Speaker 2: Pin you down.
Speaker 1: No, they didn't put me down, but they really hurt
Speaker 1: me as well. So that was it was just a
Speaker 1: fun day really around.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I'm really sorry that's happened to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a bad time, but hey, I'm back.
Speaker 2: If I had a dog that did hainous diaryel all
Speaker 2: over the balcony and I wanted an excuse not to
Speaker 2: clean it, up. I would have pretended to put my
Speaker 2: back out, nusts my best friend to come around and
Speaker 2: clean it up as well. Really, second life hack I'm
Speaker 2: delivering to the listeners today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, right, that's pretty cool. Actually it's a
Speaker 1: very good life hack.
Speaker 2: Hey, but before that, you had a massive weekend of gigs.
Speaker 1: Had a massive weekend of gigs. I did six MC
Speaker 1: spot Wow, which means basically two hours of MCing for
Speaker 1: every show, which is a lot. Yeah, so the shows
Speaker 1: go for two hours and you have to kind of
Speaker 1: just be there the whole time, be alert, be ready,
Speaker 1: and yeah it was. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: But I did do my back on the Sunday morning,
Speaker 1: which meant I had one more MC gig to do
Speaker 1: when I was in a lot of pain. But my
Speaker 1: friend Grant came up. But he walked digs with me
Speaker 1: like it was really nice, Like he came to kind
Speaker 1: of look after digs and stuff with me, really nice.
Speaker 1: An't even needed anything, Like he came around then came
Speaker 1: to the show with me, which was lots of fun
Speaker 1: and we're like walking around having the best time of
Speaker 1: our lives. I was hobbling, but he carried stuff for
Speaker 1: me made your open doors for me. Major he wanted
Speaker 1: to carry.
Speaker 2: Diggs, buts is bigger than grand.
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, yeah, actually a lot bigger than him.
Speaker 1: And Diggs was like and it jumps up and everything,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh no, this is not gonna end. Well.
Speaker 2: So it's just you know what, it's a good happy
Speaker 2: vibe in here today, happy vibe feeling you're feeling decrepit.
Speaker 2: And Diggs is just shitting, just shitting, and Pierson but
Speaker 2: he looks good.
Speaker 1: Look at him now, he's so much more sprightly than
Speaker 1: he was yesterday. I think he's actually doing a great jow.
Speaker 2: Now Broughturus to Yes. I was paying an attention to
Speaker 2: sheep No.
Speaker 1: But before we get into the episode today, I thought
Speaker 1: that I would share something from a listener Lewis today.
Speaker 1: This is from Lewis, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. I got
Speaker 1: my wife to be into your podcast that when we
Speaker 1: bought our house late last year, Oh congratulations, and she
Speaker 1: was listening to it a lot where we were doing renovations,
Speaker 1: and now she's listened to every single episode and loves it.
Speaker 1: She said to me that she wished there was a
Speaker 1: list of movie slash documentaries that related to each of
Speaker 1: your episodes. So as a birthday slash Valentine's Day gift,
Speaker 1: I put together a spreadsheet for her with links too.
Speaker 1: What It's a public spreadsheet, so if you guys feel
Speaker 1: like sharing it, go ahead.
Speaker 2: Lewis has made a spreadsheet of our episodes and related.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god. It's the best. And so I
Speaker 1: put that on our Instagram in our bio the links there,
Speaker 1: so if you go, oh my god, I wish there
Speaker 1: were some more links or you know, just more information
Speaker 1: about what I could watch that relates to this episode,
Speaker 1: Lewis has done the work for you.
Speaker 2: Louis your incredible.
Speaker 1: That great. So he's gone back and done all of them,
Speaker 1: every single episode. He started right from the start and
Speaker 1: he's done every single episode.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, Louis, that is like incredibly heartwarming
Speaker 2: for us to we forget that. People listen, we just
Speaker 2: bang on about our poohs and weeze.
Speaker 1: And backs and that's right, pews and weeds and backs.
Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you Lewis. We'll love to have Lewis
Speaker 1: on to talk about the spreadsheets. Yeah, I want too.
Speaker 2: Amazing that really, I just I can't believe people like
Speaker 2: us it's so nice.
Speaker 1: And that lovely. But yeah, so if you want to
Speaker 1: look at it. Can people follow us do you love? Yes?
Speaker 2: On Instagram and TikTok at not Another Crime Podcast. They
Speaker 2: can also watch full episodes on YouTube the same thing.
Speaker 2: They can even write to us ourselves. They could send
Speaker 2: us their spreadsheets. Yeah, to Sammy at just Another company
Speaker 2: dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And they must leave us a five star review. And
Speaker 2: they must leave us a five star rating.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And if you look on the Instagram you'll
Speaker 1: see a little link there now in the bio that
Speaker 1: has that very spreadsheet. Also, I want to say this
Speaker 1: as well. Watch us on YouTube dot com if you
Speaker 1: want to. If you feel so inclined, you can watch
Speaker 1: this video up there right now.
Speaker 2: You can watch Digs bring me all the different toys.
Speaker 1: He's yes, he's shop.
Speaker 2: Despite having entire apartment to walk around, he loves to
Speaker 2: sit as close to one or both of us as
Speaker 2: he or dogge possible.
Speaker 1: That's right, Hey, you ready for this week's episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really am.
Speaker 1: According to UK data, the more time that passes, it
Speaker 1: becomes less and less likely that a missing child will
Speaker 1: be found alive after twelve hours ninety six percent of
Speaker 1: missing children are sadly found dead. Ninety six That was awful.
Speaker 1: After three days, one hundred percent of missing children are
Speaker 1: found dead. No, yeah, in.
Speaker 2: The UK again, in the UK. Yeah, we're talking the
Speaker 2: other week about Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: Smart Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now in the introduction I referred
Speaker 1: to Peter Sutcliffe. Now do you know who Peter Cuckcliffe is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Peter Sutcliffe, later dubbed the Yorkshire Ripper, was a British
Speaker 1: serial killer who operated in northern England during the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1: His crimes created a widespread fear across country and triggered
Speaker 1: one of the largest manhunts in UK history.
Speaker 2: Was he the most prolific serial killer? Or was it
Speaker 2: like the stout I've got in my head that he
Speaker 2: was the most something?
Speaker 1: Because yeah, I don't know if he was the most prolific,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but at least the biggest man hunt. He
Speaker 1: appeared outwardly ordinary, a married lorry driver with no obvious
Speaker 1: public profile. Now a lorry driver for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: he's a trust driver, Yeah, which made the investigation especially
Speaker 1: difficult and prolonged. The case also became infamous for major
Speaker 1: policing mistakes and public panic, and it significantly changed the
Speaker 1: British police had a kind of handled serial offender investigations
Speaker 1: and media communication. The case remains one of the most
Speaker 1: notorious criminal investigations in modern British history.
Speaker 2: Will we do the story on that one day?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Oh yeah, no we will.
Speaker 2: We've got to hook him into stay for something.
Speaker 1: For something, for something. You ain't got no house.
Speaker 2: We'll do more episodes.
Speaker 1: Please listen now we need to start today's episode by
Speaker 1: talking about something quite hard to talk about, the class
Speaker 1: system in the UK. I think in the UK the
Speaker 1: class system has always been something that is spoken about,
Speaker 1: where other countries like us in Australia, it is much
Speaker 1: more unspoken, an unspoken class system that still very much
Speaker 1: exists today.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 1: Madela McCann, who disappeared while on a holiday in Portugal
Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven, was widely presented as coming
Speaker 1: from a respectable middle class professional family, media courage. Media
Speaker 1: coverage often emphasized her parents' status as doctors.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, in my mind, I feel
Speaker 2: like I believe them to be more upper class.
Speaker 1: Yes they were. Yeah are The international search effort and
Speaker 1: the idea of an innocent family struck by tragedy. In contrast,
Speaker 1: Shannon Matthews, who disappeared in West Yorkshire in two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, came from a working class counselor. State reporting
Speaker 1: frequently highlighted her family's economic hardship, family structure, and links
Speaker 1: to welfare, with some coverage reinforcing negative stereotypes about broken
Speaker 1: or benefits dependent communities. Comparing the two cases highlights how
Speaker 1: class shaped media tone, public sympathy, and assumptions about credibility, responsibility,
Speaker 1: and victimhood.
Speaker 2: Well, even the fact that I just said, oh, I
Speaker 2: don't know this story yet. You say Madeline McCann and that's.
Speaker 1: Like exactly a huge story in the UK. But I
Speaker 1: don't think it was like a Madeline McCain story. And
Speaker 1: we'll get into it later on. It raises public important
Speaker 1: questions about whose stories are treated as tragedies and who's
Speaker 1: a frame through suspicion and social judgment. The UK class
Speaker 1: system is less official than it used to be. Nobody
Speaker 1: is born with a legal rank anymore, but socially it
Speaker 1: still exists in a very real way.
Speaker 2: All right, this is probably really naive, but people literally ranked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently it used to be like such a huge thing.
Speaker 1: I think kind of in the Thatcher days it was
Speaker 1: a really big thing where you were you know, often
Speaker 1: judged completely about your standing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was more aware of the judgment, but I
Speaker 2: thought it was kind of like I thought it was
Speaker 2: very unofficial.
Speaker 1: Well, UK listeners, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like it used to be
Speaker 1: even bigger than it is today. And sorry it's not
Speaker 1: spoken about so much as much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be. It would certainly be felt though,
Speaker 2: and a lot of it I believe is is, or
Speaker 2: has been, or was highlighted by different accents.
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: An accent would kind of tell somebody what class in
Speaker 2: inverted commas you're from, where you're from, and then that
Speaker 2: would be a judgment based on that.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, people would.
Speaker 2: Get elocution lessons. So someone I know it was born
Speaker 2: and raised in Scotland and when she moved out to Australia,
Speaker 2: which is like a teenager or something in probably about
Speaker 2: the seventies, had elocution lessons to get rid of her
Speaker 2: accent entirely because so she wouldn't be judged on that.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Yeah, well, This is what's interesting that you
Speaker 1: raise this because it's not just about money. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: class often has not a lot to do with money.
Speaker 1: It's actually about background, education, accent, manners, taste and expectations.
Speaker 1: In Britain, people often judge your class faster from how
Speaker 1: you speak than from what you earn.
Speaker 2: How you speak or when you speak when akaa me
Speaker 2: just saying what you had written in your script and
Speaker 2: once again speaking before you could say you're written the script.
Speaker 1: Think of it as a cultural opening system you grow
Speaker 1: up inside. So the upper class old money who they are.
Speaker 1: They're often referred to as aristocrats, hereditary land owners, titled
Speaker 1: family these dukes, earls, lords and families who have been
Speaker 1: wealthy for centuries. The key idea here is wealth is inherited,
Speaker 1: not earned. Our work is optional for those people.
Speaker 2: With a life will a lifebirds be seated according.
Speaker 1: To class exactly. Yeah. And the markers here are private
Speaker 1: boarding schools, Oxbridge education country estates are not just big houses,
Speaker 1: very neutral or posh accents understatement and emotional restraint and
Speaker 1: connections actually matter more than cvs themselves. They often don't
Speaker 1: talk about money because they've never had to worry about it.
Speaker 1: They don't need to.
Speaker 2: They've just got it.
Speaker 1: They just got it. Our status comes from lineage. A
Speaker 1: billionaire who made money in tech is still socially new
Speaker 1: money to them. The upper middle class, professional elite. Who
Speaker 1: they are. They're doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures,
Speaker 1: highly educated professionals, doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures.
Speaker 1: I don't why I say that again, but they usually
Speaker 1: earn huge salaries.
Speaker 2: What I'm asking for a friend, a media figure who
Speaker 2: doesn't earn a huge weight.
Speaker 1: So we'll get into that and what really matters in education,
Speaker 1: taste and networks. The markers of this is university is expected,
Speaker 1: often prestigious. They read broadsheet newspapers, knows how to navigate
Speaker 1: formal settings, comfortably comfortable discussing politics, art and literature. Whi's
Speaker 1: out feeling like they're overstepping their mark. Our children pushed
Speaker 1: towards careers, not trades, educated accents, but softer than no aristocratic,
Speaker 1: carefully neutral. They plan financially but are rarely insecure about survival.
Speaker 2: I'm picturing Jack Whitehall in this exactly.
Speaker 1: I think he would be that. Yeah, the middle class
Speaker 1: stability and aspiration. Who they are teachers, small business owners,
Speaker 1: office workers, mid level managers, skilled professionals. The key idea
Speaker 1: is security and improvement. This is the group most associated
Speaker 1: with trying to do well in life.
Speaker 2: Media, yes, media professional A lot of beautiful Oh okay, yes,
Speaker 2: that is.
Speaker 1: The marker is beautiful the market, there's a home. Ownership
Speaker 1: is a major goal in life, education scene as a
Speaker 1: pathway to mobility. Are concerned about manners and respectability. Our
Speaker 1: holidays abroad is an achievement, often slightly self conscious socially.
Speaker 1: The accent is regional, but moderated, often softened intentionally, but
Speaker 1: for them, budgeting matters. Lifestyle is planned around affordability. Then
Speaker 1: we have the working class, community and practicality, who are
Speaker 1: manual laborers, tradespeople, service workers, many retail and hospitality workers.
Speaker 1: The key idea here is work is central to identity.
Speaker 2: Are there any songs you know about that class?
Speaker 1: So? Historically yeah, historically the indust I know, Okay, we
Speaker 1: can do it later. Historically, the industrial backbone of Britain
Speaker 1: today includes skilled, well paid trades, so income does not
Speaker 1: necessarily equal lower class. A strong regional accent, usually direct
Speaker 1: communication style type, family, community, networks, practical skills valued over
Speaker 1: academic ones, and suspicion of pretension. Money is for living,
Speaker 1: not cultural signaling. Then we have the final one, the underclass.
Speaker 1: Who they are people in unstable employment, long term unemployment,
Speaker 1: or generational poverty, lack of access to opportunity rather than
Speaker 1: lifestyle choice. This is less a cultural class and more
Speaker 1: an economic condition, but British media often treats it socially.
Speaker 1: The most important part is accent. Income. In Britain, class
Speaker 1: is often detected in seconds. A plumber earning eighty thousand
Speaker 1: pounds with a strong regional accent will usually be perceived
Speaker 1: as working class when they're not. A poorly paid me
Speaker 1: uzium curator with a posh accent may be perceived as
Speaker 1: upper middle class. So class is basically upbringing plus education
Speaker 1: plus behavior plus taste, not just salary. And with all
Speaker 1: this background information, let's get into today's story. This story
Speaker 1: takes place in Jewsbury, West Yorkshire. Yorkshire rises in the
Speaker 1: north of England like a kingdom unto itself, broad shouldered,
Speaker 1: weathered and quietly magnificent. It is a country shaped as
Speaker 1: much by wind and heather as by history. Heather, come on, flowers,
Speaker 1: come on, where stone villages are clinton valleys and church
Speaker 1: towers punctuate horizons that seem to stretch without end. There
Speaker 1: is a steadiness to Yorkshire, a deep rooted sense of place,
Speaker 1: born of ancient rock and enduring communities of farming, hand
Speaker 1: and seafaring, heritage of market towns and mill chimneys that
Speaker 1: once powered the Industrial Revolution. The North York moors unfurl
Speaker 1: in sweeping expanses of heather, a rolling ocean of purple
Speaker 1: in late summer, shifting under vast skies that dominate every view. Here.
Speaker 1: Land feels elemental, carved by time, scored by dry stone walls,
Speaker 1: and traced with winding paths that follow all drovers, roads
Speaker 1: and railway lines long since quieted. The air carries the
Speaker 1: scent of peat and bracken peat.
Speaker 2: The wind.
Speaker 1: The wind moves unhindered across ridges and through wooded dales,
Speaker 1: where clear strands thread their way towards the coast. I'm
Speaker 1: ignoring it now. It is a landscape of contrasts, austere
Speaker 1: yet delicate, solitary yet deeply storied. Bronze age barrows rise
Speaker 1: subtly from the hills. Abbey ruins stand ruthless against the
Speaker 1: horizon and coastal cliff fall dramatically into the restless North Sea.
Speaker 2: Whose sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: In the small villages scattered across the moors, like continues,
Speaker 1: life continues at a measured pace. Stone cottages gathered around
Speaker 1: the village, greens, smoke curling from chimneys in winter, lambs
Speaker 1: scattered across fields in spring. To stand on the moors
Speaker 1: is to feel both exposed and anchored, to sense the
Speaker 1: immensity of sky and the weight of history beneath your feet.
Speaker 1: This is Yorkshire in its purest expression, resilient, expansive and
Speaker 1: quietly profound. Nine year old Shannon Matthews and I.
Speaker 2: Want to say that was beautiful. That was really beautiful.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that so much as well.
Speaker 2: Do you know if Dibbley as in the vicar of
Speaker 2: is in that.
Speaker 1: Area, because that's what yeah, I feel what she is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very similar. If it's not, Yeah, in putting as well.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Our nine year old Shannon Matthews lived on
Speaker 1: a council estate in West Yorkshire. Council estates expanded significantly
Speaker 1: after both World Wars, particularly from the nineteen fifties to
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, as Britain worked to replace slum housing and
Speaker 1: address severe shortages. They ranged from suburban semi detached houses
Speaker 1: with gardens to high rise tower blocks. While many provided
Speaker 1: stable and affordable homes, some later became associated with economic
Speaker 1: deprivation due to unemployment, policy failures and long term under investment.
Speaker 1: In Australia, the closest equivalent would be government or social housing.
Speaker 1: On the estate, Shannon lived with her mother, Karen Matthews,
Speaker 1: Karen's boyfriend Craig who was not her biological father, and
Speaker 1: several siblings, most commonly reported as six or seven children
Speaker 1: in that very household.
Speaker 2: So not even a clear ant, not a.
Speaker 1: Clear number no, which is bizarre. But there was always
Speaker 1: six or seven I've found in every report. Reports of
Speaker 1: the time described the home as overcrowded and in very
Speaker 1: poor condition, with investations a mice and insects, significant dirt
Speaker 1: and unhygienic living conditions. Accounts suggested that children were living
Speaker 1: in severe neglect and squalor. Reports described frequent and intense
Speaker 1: arguments between Karen Matthews and her partner, Craig Meehan, with
Speaker 1: disputes that could continue for days. It was alleged that
Speaker 1: money intended for essentials such as food and nappies were
Speaker 1: often spent instead on cigarettes and alcohol. One account claimed
Speaker 1: that rather than purchasing nappies, Karen often improvised, using pieces
Speaker 1: of taw curtain fabric or even plastic bags.
Speaker 2: One thing I will say is taw like reusable nappies
Speaker 2: with tawel, Like that's what people use and have used
Speaker 2: in the past. But I feel like that's yes, I
Speaker 2: feel like that's not what's being insinuated here.
Speaker 1: No no, no, don't want to non.
Speaker 2: Single use nappy shame anyone.
Speaker 1: No no, no, no no. But this was yeah, this
Speaker 1: was often plastic bags. They wouldn't bindappies on her plastic
Speaker 1: bags or yeah tow On the wall in Shannon's beardroom,
Speaker 1: there were notes written between her and her brothers. One
Speaker 1: read do you think we'll get tea tonight? Talking about
Speaker 1: if they would be given any dinner at all. The
Speaker 1: reply was we might get a packet of crisps if
Speaker 1: we're quiet. No one had noticed the other scribblings on
Speaker 1: the wall until Shannon vanished, but one of the notes
Speaker 1: read that she wanted to live with her dad. Neighbors
Speaker 1: repeatedly reported concerns about Karen Matthews and her partner Craig
Speaker 1: to child services, despite accounts that the children often arrived
Speaker 1: at school unclean and with matted hair. No sustained findings
Speaker 1: of neglect appear to have been formally recorded at the time.
Speaker 1: Some reports described Shannon as frequently having extremely dirty feet
Speaker 1: caked in grime. In early two thousand and three, the
Speaker 1: Matthew's children were placed on the at risk register following
Speaker 1: allegations of alcohol misuse in the home and claims that
Speaker 1: the children had been left alone overnight. Concerns with the
Speaker 1: community were clearly mounting. Karen underwent a psychological assessment and
Speaker 1: was deemed in need of constant supervision as a mother,
Speaker 1: with concerns raised about her ability to prioritize her children's
Speaker 1: needs above her own.
Speaker 2: Can I just say if that wasn't picked up in
Speaker 2: the microphone, oh, digs just like coughed up a bit
Speaker 2: of toy fluff. You couldn't hear that and you just
Speaker 2: heard us get you.
Speaker 1: Yeah. However, the family was later removed from the child
Speaker 1: protection register for years before Shannon's disappearance, and the case
Speaker 1: was closed. And this is probably because of underfunding and everything,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the time, Social Services will probably
Speaker 1: close a case out and they checked back and everything exactly,
Speaker 1: and we'll go into this later. Accounts from Karen's mother, June,
Speaker 1: suggested that Karen would sometimes ask her for money to
Speaker 1: stock the cupboards before schedule visitors scheduled visits from Social Services.
Speaker 1: At the time, Karen reportedly received around three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty pounds a week in benefits, while Craig earned approximately
Speaker 1: three hundred pounds a week working at a fish counter.
Speaker 1: Their home was described as a party house to some,
Speaker 1: with people frequently coming and going, while six or seven
Speaker 1: children were living there. Craig was about ten years younger
Speaker 1: than Karen, reflecting what some observers described as a pattern
Speaker 1: in her relationships, forming partnerships with younger men, having children,
Speaker 1: and then separating. By the time Shannon disappeared in two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, Karen was thirty one years old. Oh gosh,
Speaker 1: that's young, very young kid. Yeah. On the morning of Tuesday,
Speaker 1: nineteenth of February two thousand and eight, nine year old
Speaker 1: Shannon Matthews climbed down from the top bunk she shared
Speaker 1: with her two year old half sister, still wearing a
Speaker 1: one hundred and one Dulmatians dressing game. Her year four
Speaker 1: class at Westmore Junior School was due to attend its
Speaker 1: first swimming lesson that day, and she had been eagerly
Speaker 1: looking forward to her. The night before had been tense
Speaker 1: in the house after a heated argument. Shannon had sworn
Speaker 1: at her mother's boyfriend, Craig, and fearful of his reaction,
Speaker 1: ran in tears to her uncle Martin's house. She was
Speaker 1: close to Martin.
Speaker 2: I have an uncle called Martin, do you Martin Love?
Speaker 2: Which I've only recently found out is also the name
Speaker 2: of a former Australian cricketer. Never knew that not the
Speaker 2: same bither she was. She knows so much about cricket.
Speaker 2: You're wrong about that.
Speaker 1: I love my wicket. I love my cricket. She was
Speaker 1: close to Martin and his children and it was and
Speaker 1: it was not the first time she had sought refuge there.
Speaker 1: Although we cared about her, he did not want to
Speaker 1: become involved in and arrange for one of his children
Speaker 1: to walk her home. Shannon cried the entire way back.
Speaker 2: Even that sad, She's she's gone there. No refuge, Yeah,
Speaker 2: stay here, I.
Speaker 1: Know, but I guess like as a sibling of you know,
Speaker 1: to his sister, He's like, well, you know, this happens
Speaker 1: a little bit. I don't want to get involved or
Speaker 1: be that person, like you.
Speaker 2: Know, we're here for you. Come on, got to go
Speaker 2: home now exactly.
Speaker 1: And you don't know how bad that is, Like you can't.
Speaker 2: Blame you say it. In hindsight it sounds like, oh,
Speaker 2: why did he send her home? But it could be like,
Speaker 2: come on, Shannon, we've got to go sleep in your
Speaker 2: own bed tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The following morning, in the cold, cold house, Shannon
Speaker 1: dressed for school, black trousers, a white T shirt, and
Speaker 1: a black jumper uniform. She pulled on her pink rain
Speaker 1: boots trimmed with gray fur, picked up a blue striped
Speaker 1: towel and swimming bag, and prepared to leave.
Speaker 2: You said that, really, I was kind of excited about
Speaker 2: the boots with.
Speaker 1: The fur, boots with the fur looking at her.
Speaker 2: The whole pool was looking at yeah.
Speaker 1: And not fur as in the Vietnamese soup tom the
Speaker 1: morning of nineteen Not that I'm not saying that. I
Speaker 1: never said that. On the morning of nineteenth of February
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews led the left the
Speaker 1: house quietly.
Speaker 2: Oh the day we're recording. This is the nineteenth February.
Speaker 1: Really holy, how the heck? On the morning of nineteenth
Speaker 1: to February two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews left the
Speaker 1: house quietly, reportedly around eight a m. Likely without breakfast,
Speaker 1: on her own, on her own. At nine, her mother,
Speaker 1: Karen Matthews, was awake, and another argument began. According to
Speaker 1: later accounts, Karen shouted at her to get out of
Speaker 1: her house and don't come back. Shannon, ever returned to
Speaker 1: that house.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: She walked to school with her cousins, telling them about
Speaker 1: the fight the night before and how she had sworn
Speaker 1: at Craig, her mum's boyfriend. She also repeated that her
Speaker 1: muma taught her not to come back because conflict at
Speaker 1: home was not unusual, The comments did not really immediately
Speaker 1: raise alarm. At Wesmore Junior School, Shannon spent most of
Speaker 1: the day quietly with her best friend, Meghan Oldridge. That afternoon,
Speaker 1: their class traveled to a local leisure center for their
Speaker 1: first swimming lesson, something Shannon had been excited about for weeks.
Speaker 1: Meghan later recalled that Shannon sleep seemed kind of slightly
Speaker 1: subdued at first, but once they're in the pool, the
Speaker 1: girls giggled and played as usual. Shannon had occasionally mentioned
Speaker 1: wanting to run away and live with her father, though
Speaker 1: her friends did not know how seriously to take these comments.
Speaker 1: They were nine years old, and the conversation soon moved on.
Speaker 1: The class returned to school around three pm. On the
Speaker 1: bus bank, Shannon became quiet again. CCTV later captured the
Speaker 1: moment she and Meghan left the school grounds for the
Speaker 1: final time, footage that would eventually be broadcast worldwide. Shannon
Speaker 1: told Meghan that her brother was supposed to meet her
Speaker 1: at the school gates, but when no one arrived, she
Speaker 1: set off alone. Meghan later remembered that Shannon walked in
Speaker 1: the opposite direction from her usual route home, though at
Speaker 1: the time no one realized the significance. Shannon never arrived
Speaker 1: home and Paul Megan Oldridge would never see her best
Speaker 1: friend again.
Speaker 2: Oh God, that poor girl.
Speaker 1: When Shannon Matthews hadn't returned home by four pm, Karen
Speaker 1: Matthews went to check with neighbors, but Shannon wasn't there.
Speaker 1: While it was unusual for her not to be home
Speaker 1: by that time, she could have stopped at a friend's
Speaker 1: house that wasn't unlikely or even her cousins. On the
Speaker 1: way back. Karen then went to the shops with Craig's
Speaker 1: sister Amanda, assuming Shannon would be home when they returned,
Speaker 1: but she still wasn't there. When they got back, Karen
Speaker 1: called nine nine nine, which for Australia zero zero zero
Speaker 1: in America is nine one one at approximately six forty
Speaker 1: eight pm report Shannon missing. It was the first time
Speaker 1: the Channon had ever disappeared on the phone. Karen was
Speaker 1: tearful but cooperative, insisting there was no reason Shannon would
Speaker 1: have run away. Shannon did not have a phone, so
Speaker 1: her location could not be changed. Remember this is like
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight as well. Technology is not what
Speaker 1: it is today now.
Speaker 2: I had a phone then, but I was like twenty yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Were luncheon and brunching back then, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on my phone, texted snake.
Speaker 1: Played snake. Police arrived at around seven fifteen pm Craig
Speaker 1: and three other three so Craig and three the children
Speaker 1: answered the door, with Karen frantically searching the area that
Speaker 1: she was kind of knocking on all doors frantically this
Speaker 1: time inside. Officers found the house in poor condition, rubbish
Speaker 1: and takeaway containers piled up, closed strewn everywhere, and a
Speaker 1: strong smell of cigarette smoke. It was a very good
Speaker 1: ventilation in the house and it was really really strong.
Speaker 1: Shortly after, Karen returned visibly upset, but began answering questions.
Speaker 1: When asked if Shannon had a reason to run away,
Speaker 1: she suggested Shannon had been jealous of her older brother
Speaker 1: receiving a school computer. Karen repeatedly said, I just know
Speaker 1: that she is out there somewhere. Officers requested permission to
Speaker 1: search the house. Craig appeared upset at first, worried they
Speaker 1: were being accused, but the police explained it was standard
Speaker 1: procedure just.
Speaker 2: To be able to check it out, like to be yes,
Speaker 2: we definitely know she's definitely not there.
Speaker 1: And I think the class part of this is extremely
Speaker 1: important here. They were not a wealthy family, and also
Speaker 1: the police were not necessarily to be trusted because if
Speaker 1: you spoke out on the estate, social workers and everything
Speaker 1: would come in. You did not want to be a
Speaker 1: snitch on that estate. Meanwhile, neighbors had already began searching
Speaker 1: the estate. Shannon's father biological father, Leon was contacted and
Speaker 1: joined the search. Visibly distraught, search teams called out her
Speaker 1: name as they combed the streets. The estate was an
Speaker 1: extremely close knit community. One detached house searched as a
Speaker 1: local hub for events, yoga, and gatherings, making it a
Speaker 1: natural focal point for organizing the search. The leader of
Speaker 1: the community was Julie Bushby. As soon as Julie heard
Speaker 1: the news of Shannon's disappearance, she was the first to
Speaker 1: get everyone together and go looking for her, hitting the
Speaker 1: streets to find her as soon as they could.
Speaker 2: She was kind of just like that Auntie that get everything,
Speaker 2: knows everyone.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and we'll go into the there's a dramatized version
Speaker 1: of this which I have not seen. We'll go into
Speaker 1: it later. But apparently the person who placed Julie Bushby
Speaker 1: is quite incredible, very very strong force, and someone that
Speaker 1: just led the community, kind of like a good version
Speaker 1: of a Karen. I guess just don't want to go
Speaker 1: I'm the person who owns this place. I know what
Speaker 1: I'm doing.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say she's a bit of a Karen,
Speaker 2: but that didn't sound right because Karen is yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It was a community effort. Everyone was sure that she
Speaker 1: would show up. There was no way that Shannon would
Speaker 1: ever have been abducted, especially in a place where everyone
Speaker 1: knew everyone. It was impossible. Also, they thought the night
Speaker 1: that Shannon Matthews went missing, it was freezing and raining,
Speaker 1: with temperatures around minus four degrees. If she had been
Speaker 1: outside all night, she would have been at serious risk
Speaker 1: of developing hypothermia. Aaron Matthews told investigators there was no
Speaker 1: reason for Shannon to run away. Police searched around five
Speaker 1: hundred houses and employed eighteen of the twenty two body
Speaker 1: search dogs in the UK at the time, but still
Speaker 1: found nothing. I think these search dogs were actually from
Speaker 1: the local area, but you know, but still eighteen oh
Speaker 1: twenty two the way they really wanted to find her.
Speaker 1: Media coverage highlighted as a stark contrasts contrast in public
Speaker 1: empathy compared with Madela McCann's case, with suggestions that Madeleine's
Speaker 1: middle class background drew greater sympathy and attention that Shannon's
Speaker 1: working class. Environment journalist Richard Edwards was among the first
Speaker 1: allowed into the Matthews family home. Craig took him to
Speaker 1: Shannon's shared room straight away. Karen described finding it difficult
Speaker 1: to be in that room after Shannon had gone, calling
Speaker 1: Craig her rock. Craig became emotional in this time, while
Speaker 1: Shannon's presence or the memory of her, remained hauntedly absent.
Speaker 1: Shannon's father, Leon Matthews. This is a biological father. Sorry,
Speaker 1: so he's name his real Leon Rose Sorry, also spoke
Speaker 1: to media around this time. He admitted that he had
Speaker 1: not seen much of her recently, but desperately wanted her home.
Speaker 2: I've just realized I'm treating this as like reading a
Speaker 2: Who Done It? Novel? Every single name you're bringing up,
Speaker 2: talking something about them and going roightn't okay.
Speaker 1: A note on Shannon's bedroom wall expressed it as I
Speaker 1: to live with Leon, and he said on camera that
Speaker 1: if she returned that things would work out. Leon, described
Speaker 1: as a quintessential Yorkshireman, showed little outward emotion, so quite
Speaker 1: like quite a tough guy. Really yeah, but you didn't.
Speaker 2: Stereotype kind of gruff old Englishman type, like that's the stereotype.
Speaker 1: I mean absolutely yeah, kind of rough and ready like
Speaker 1: you know that sort of person. And our police briefly
Speaker 1: investigated him but quickly cleared him of any suspicion. In
Speaker 1: the weeks after her disappearance, Karen actually visited a psye
Speaker 1: kick as a kind of a last ditch effort, who
Speaker 1: claimed Shannon had been taken by someone known to both
Speaker 1: Karen and Craigh God. Meanwhile, volunteers Likelie Julie bish By,
Speaker 1: Julie Bushby, Julie Bishop, Julie Bushby tirelessly campaigned for her return,
Speaker 1: posting flies, printing t shirts, and throwing themselves into the
Speaker 1: search completely. Yet days passed with no trace.
Speaker 2: God how awful.
Speaker 1: Cases like this where a child disappears with no immediate
Speaker 1: leads are extremely rare. And the longer, Oh, thank God,
Speaker 1: and the longer Shannon remained missing, the more suspicion and
Speaker 1: anxiety grew. The Sun newspaper offered a twenty thousand pound reward,
Speaker 1: and Karen and Craig.
Speaker 2: Gave sorry, yeah, Yeah, far out.
Speaker 1: And Karen and Craig gave repeated interviews. Even celebrities became involved.
Speaker 1: Leona Lewis, whose song Bleeding Love was Shannon's favorite song,
Speaker 1: reached out to show so bless. But as time dragged on,
Speaker 1: the chances of finding Shannon alive appeared to diminish, and
Speaker 1: the police grew increasingly desperate. Neil Shannon's uncle said the
Speaker 1: next day after she went missing, we searched everywhere, driving
Speaker 1: around the area until four a m. We looked in
Speaker 1: the neighbours' gardens and checked all the places she would
Speaker 1: normally be, but came up with nothing. We're extremely worried
Speaker 1: when limbo now and don't know what to do. It's
Speaker 1: completely out of character and unexpected for her to just
Speaker 1: go off. It's a horrible feeling that she might not
Speaker 1: even be in Yorkshire anymore. She could be a million
Speaker 1: miles away by now if someone had her. She is
Speaker 1: a quiet girl and very shy. You might even say
Speaker 1: she is timid if she had a problem. She was
Speaker 1: not the kind of kid who would go running for
Speaker 1: help right away. She is scared of the dark. That's
Speaker 1: why it's all a mystery. As the hours passed, the
Speaker 1: terrifying thought what if someone had taken her? What if
Speaker 1: she was a million miles away? Police began to treat
Speaker 1: Shannon's disappearance not as a runaway case, but maybe as
Speaker 1: a likely abduction. Meanwhile, Julie bishb fucking hell Julie Bushby
Speaker 1: continued her Tyler's search and Karen Matthews remained isolated at home,
Speaker 1: anxiously awaiting the news.
Speaker 2: Julie Bishop is a former politician in Australia. For any
Speaker 2: over listeness that don't know why we keep laughing when
Speaker 2: he says.
Speaker 1: Julie Bishby, Craig and Karen were repeatedly questioned and asked
Speaker 1: for intimate any information that they could provide. Police seized
Speaker 1: both of their computers and continued door to door inquiries
Speaker 1: in nearby Wakefield. The police training school closed for the day,
Speaker 1: sending every available cadet into the community to help search.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Julie Bushby coordinated the civilian effort. People turned
Speaker 1: up uninvited, determined to help, as if Shannon could have
Speaker 1: been their own daughter. Now it's a very close knit
Speaker 1: community and everyone just kind of went, what if this
Speaker 1: was our daughter, we need to help right away. But
Speaker 1: after sixteen hours with no sight of her, the case
Speaker 1: was escalated to the homicide squad.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that quickly. That's terrifying.
Speaker 1: But I think like in a small place like this,
Speaker 1: like the homicide squad would probably the same search team really,
Speaker 1: like exactly. National media coverage soon drew comparisons to Medela McCann,
Speaker 1: who had vanished just nine months earlier in Portugal and
Speaker 1: was never found, has never been has never been found
Speaker 1: far Ya. Sixteen hours became twenty four. Chief Superintendent Barry
Speaker 1: South held a packed press conference. He warned that ninety
Speaker 1: six percent of abducted children are killed within the first
Speaker 1: twenty four hours.
Speaker 2: That's an awful thing to say, say Jesus.
Speaker 1: By that time, two hundred officers had knocked on one
Speaker 1: eight hundred dolls, a figure that would soon rise to
Speaker 1: three thousand. A helicopter equipped with heat seeking technology patrolled
Speaker 1: the area continuously. Divers searched a nearby lake and no
Speaker 1: effort was spared, but still they found nothing. Divers searched
Speaker 1: a nearby lake and no effort was spared, but still
Speaker 1: they found nothing. Meanwhile, Julie Bushby and Estate Residence rallied
Speaker 1: the community, printing hundreds of posters and T shirts featuring
Speaker 1: Shannon's photos, keeping the search and hope well alive. On
Speaker 1: day three of the search, Karen spoke to a news crew.
Speaker 1: There was a sense of helplessness, but Karen was hopeful.
Speaker 1: She thought that Shannon was out there somewhere. Could she
Speaker 1: just come home. She had massive red rings around her eyes,
Speaker 1: which showed that she hadn't been sleeping at all and
Speaker 1: was crying. A musical called Shannon Matthews. The musical showed
Speaker 1: Karen with the big red rings around her eyes throughout
Speaker 1: the entire musical.
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, what.
Speaker 1: As a musical about Shannon Matthews? The musical so about
Speaker 1: the missing the missing girl.
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, but I hope I'm wrong. It's a parody musical.
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: don't know anything about it, but maybe he would googler this.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but I find that disgusting.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to google it yet because I
Speaker 2: don't know what's happened.
Speaker 1: After the end, Karen said through tears in the news report, Shannon,
Speaker 1: if you're out there, please Darling, come home. We love
Speaker 1: you so much. Me, your dad, your brothers, your sisters,
Speaker 1: everybody loves you. Your dad's missing you so much, Shannon,
Speaker 1: He's even out looking for you. Please come home. Shannon,
Speaker 1: if you're out there, come home. If anybody's got my daughter,
Speaker 1: my beautiful princess daughter, please bring her home safe. Karen
Speaker 1: came across in the interview as somewhat of a caricature.
Speaker 1: Comparisons were soon drawn to a character in the British
Speaker 1: TV show Shameless, Oh. Shameless betrays life on a Manchester
Speaker 1: Council of State, Focusing on a white working class reliant
Speaker 1: on low paid work and welfare. It depicts poverty, social stigma,
Speaker 1: and unstable parenting, intense relationships with the state, often mixing
Speaker 1: realism with dark comedy. Sharon Matthews came from similar working
Speaker 1: class Council of State background in West Yorkshire. Media coverage
Speaker 1: of her two thousand and eight disappearance frequently framed her
Speaker 1: family through negative class stereotypes. In this sense, Shameless reflects
Speaker 1: and sometimes exaggerates, the same social environment and class marginalization
Speaker 1: that shaped public perceptions of the Matthews case. There was
Speaker 1: footage of Karen and Craig in the doorway. After one
Speaker 1: week there was still nothing in the background. Detectives were
Speaker 1: looking into everyone and everything they could. Police did not
Speaker 1: want to have comparisons drawn between their investigations and the
Speaker 1: highly criticized investigation into the disappearance of Madela mccairn. Julie
Speaker 1: Bushby stuck by her friend Karen after she became more
Speaker 1: and more withdrawn. Karen planted flowers in the front garden
Speaker 1: for Shannon with local children from the estate. A large
Speaker 1: group released balloons for Shannon into the sky. Another press
Speaker 1: conference was held two weeks after Shannon went missing. Karen
Speaker 1: wore a t shirt with Shannon's face on it, clutching
Speaker 1: one of her Teddy bears. She spoke out again. Shannon's dad, Leon,
Speaker 1: also spoke at the press conference. This time. During the
Speaker 1: press conference, Karen expressed that the family didn't feel safe anymore,
Speaker 1: that Shannon's brothers were constantly asking where she was and
Speaker 1: if someone had her, then please let her go. Karen
Speaker 1: said that she couldn't trust anyone close to her anymore.
Speaker 2: Oh, you couldn't.
Speaker 1: She just couldn't trust anyone. When asked if you thought
Speaker 1: it was someone she knew who had taken Shannon, Karen said,
Speaker 1: it seems that way because there's no trace of her
Speaker 1: at all. There's no trace of her swimming costume, her towel,
Speaker 1: or anything like that. She's taken with her. Karen told
Speaker 1: the press that the last thing Shannon said when she
Speaker 1: left the house was I'll see you at tea time. Mum,
Speaker 1: love you. Now a little bit about Karen Matthews Karen
Speaker 1: Matthews were twenty three when she had her third child,
Speaker 1: Shannon Matthews. Shannon's biological father, Leon, was a teenager at
Speaker 1: the time, and the couple separated shortly after Shannon's birth.
Speaker 1: When Shannon was four, Karen moved to the more Side
Speaker 1: estate in Jewsbury, an area of two story red brick houses.
Speaker 1: Jewsberry had once thrived on the wool industry, and Moore
Speaker 1: Side had been a relatively appealing working class neighborhood, but
Speaker 1: after the mills closed, employment became scarce, and the nineteen
Speaker 1: eighties crime crimes had increased, giving the area a rough reputation.
Speaker 1: Significant investments were made to improve housing, and by two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight the estate become desirable, though many residents
Speaker 1: still survived on single minimum wage incomes. Karen left school
Speaker 1: at sixteen with a below average IQ and began work
Speaker 1: as a cleaner. She had her first child at seventeen.
Speaker 1: By the time she met Leon, she already had a
Speaker 1: child from a previous relationship. Within months of meeting Leon,
Speaker 1: she became pregnant with their son, and their relationship eventually
Speaker 1: became strained under the pressures of raising children together with
Speaker 1: not much money. At twenty three, Karen and Leon had Shannon,
Speaker 1: who was taken straight from the hospital. Karen's parents, June
Speaker 1: and Gordon. Karen was one of seven children herself. June
Speaker 1: and Gordon, despite their own working class struggles, ran a
Speaker 1: stable household and prioritized their grandchildren's welfare. Shannon stayed with
Speaker 1: them during her first months of life, but Karen did
Speaker 1: not maintain the same level of care for her daughter.
Speaker 1: When Shannon was two, Leon moved away away with their
Speaker 1: son at Karen's request, so Karen kept the daughter and
Speaker 1: he took to the Within months, Karen had begun a
Speaker 1: relationship with another partner and became pregnant again. A pattern
Speaker 1: developed her partners would eventually leave, sometimes taking the children
Speaker 1: with them, while Karen had subsequent children with a new man.
Speaker 1: By the time she settled in More Side of State,
Speaker 1: Karen had six children with five different fathers. Karen Matthews
Speaker 1: moved to More Side of State with three of her children,
Speaker 1: including Shannon Matthews. Karen frequently argued with her boyfriends, and
Speaker 1: money that should have gone to her children were often
Speaker 1: spent on cigarettes and alcohol. It was on the More
Speaker 1: Side of State that she actually met Craig Meehan. Karen
Speaker 1: was twenty eight and Craig only eighteen. Oh gosh. Within weeks,
Speaker 1: he moved into a three bedroom council house located next
Speaker 1: to his sister Amanda and an Amanda's husband Neil So
Speaker 1: and yeah and his yeah brother in law lived right
Speaker 1: next door to Karen.
Speaker 2: Very everybody loves Raymond.
Speaker 1: Les hilarious but yes. Craig's mother, Alice and another sister, Caroline,
Speaker 1: also lived nearby. The relationships soon led to pregnancy, and
Speaker 1: Karen had another daughter, her seventh child. Karen and Craig
Speaker 1: maintained close ties with Craig's sisters, but Karen's own sister, Julie,
Speaker 1: was more distant. Julie and her husband John frequently expressed
Speaker 1: concern over Karen's neglect, particularly her failure to provide proper
Speaker 1: food or nappies for the children. On several occasions, Julie
Speaker 1: gave Karen money, which was reportedly spent on alcohol and cigarettes,
Speaker 1: leaving the children reliant on frozen meals. The family's situation
Speaker 1: drew repeated attention. Social services were contacted multiple times. The
Speaker 1: children we play the on the at risk register and
Speaker 1: later removed, raising further questions about the adequacy of oversight
Speaker 1: and the ongoing neglect social work, much like in Australia,
Speaker 1: is massively underfunded. The More side of State was a
Speaker 1: close knit community where many residents had negative experiences with
Speaker 1: social workers and were wary of engaging with them for
Speaker 1: fear of having their children removed. Karen Matthews rarely allowed
Speaker 1: social workers to actually see Shannon. While a visitor would
Speaker 1: occasionally come to read to the children, she had minimal
Speaker 1: contact with. Shannon. Craig Meehan, by contrast, drew little negative
Speaker 1: attention from anyone, just a quiet guy that lived on
Speaker 1: the estate. Police had to investigate anyone connected to Shannon's family.
Speaker 1: They spent constant hours and while countless hours I wrote,
Speaker 1: but I said constant, I was tracing her family tree,
Speaker 1: which included over three hundred and fifty relatives. Everyone interviewed
Speaker 1: provided as much information as possible, and Karen, Craig, and
Speaker 1: shannon siblings all gave DNA samples. When the results returned,
Speaker 1: police informed Karen and Craig one of so that the
Speaker 1: Craig's daughter was not actually Craig's daughter, so not biological no.
Speaker 1: After twenty four days after Shannon disappeared, Julie Bushby organized
Speaker 1: a fundraising disco at the local cricket club for the
Speaker 1: missing Shannon appeal. Karen and Craig attended, but mostly kept
Speaker 1: to themselves. They were very withdrawn by this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not exactly going and dancing.
Speaker 1: No, exactly. Police also released CCTV footage from the swimming pool,
Speaker 1: which allowed Shannon's best friend, Megan to realize that Shannon
Speaker 1: had walked in the wrong direction after leaving school, away
Speaker 1: from her home. This ray concerns as the area was
Speaker 1: not as familiar as people had assumed. With a twenty
Speaker 1: mile radius of Shannon's house, there were one thousand, four
Speaker 1: hundred registered sex offenders Holy sit, several of whom had
Speaker 1: direct links to her family.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: The Matthew's household was put under constance of ailance. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: the Sun newspaper increased its reward from twenty thousand pounds
Speaker 1: to fifty thousand pounds.
Speaker 2: I'm like dumbfounded by newspaper offering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if it's after the Madela McCann disappearance.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it was like a big thing where
Speaker 1: it was like the paper something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's their way of going like we'll get tipsy story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Around the time, a tip came from
Speaker 1: a local man in a nearby village suggesting people speak
Speaker 1: to a man by the name of Michael Donovan, who
Speaker 1: had previously visited the area regularly but had stopped coming
Speaker 1: after Shannon disappeared. Michael Donovan was thirty nine years old
Speaker 1: at the time. He lived less than a mile down
Speaker 1: the road from Karen and Craig's home. So who was he?
Speaker 1: Michael Donovan was born Paul Drake and was the youngest
Speaker 1: of nine. He grew up on an estate not too
Speaker 1: far from the apartment where Shannon was found. He started
Speaker 1: getting in trouble with the law when he was just
Speaker 1: eleven years old. His first offenses were arson and shoplifting.
Speaker 2: His first offenses were us.
Speaker 1: At the age of sixteen, he was charged with criminal
Speaker 1: damage and ran away from home. At nineteen, he changed
Speaker 1: his name by deed Paul to Michael Donovan, who was
Speaker 1: his hero at the time from his favorite TV show V.
Speaker 1: Michael Donovan is the main Hue human protagonist in V
Speaker 1: and its sequels.
Speaker 2: Human protagonist.
Speaker 1: A former photo journalist turned resistance leader. He organized the
Speaker 1: fight against the alien visitors who secretly planned to exploit Earth.
Speaker 1: Donovan is portrayed as courageous, resourceful, and driven by a
Speaker 1: strong moral sense. Weirdly, there is also a character by
Speaker 1: the name of Michael Donovan in Shameless.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: Michael Donovan is a recurring character in Shameless, portrayed as
Speaker 1: a tough, volatile, and fiercely loyal member of the Donovan family,
Speaker 1: part of a rival clan to the Gallaghers on the
Speaker 1: Council Estate. He embodies hypermasculine working class identity, often involved
Speaker 1: in conflict, petticrime, and family power struggles.
Speaker 2: Do you watch Shameless, Yeah, I've watched the American one,
Speaker 2: but there's an English one.
Speaker 1: I'm as English as original, Like, yeah, so I.
Speaker 2: Was assuming, and then I was like, I don't recognize him,
Speaker 2: of it, But then we gal Gallagher's. Gallagher's is the
Speaker 2: same name in the American one.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, exactly. But back to the real Michael Donovan,
Speaker 1: real Michael or R. M. Found work as a laborer
Speaker 1: and driver delivery a delivery driver at an engineering company,
Speaker 1: where he demonstrated a little common sense.
Speaker 2: Sorry, do we assume he changed his name to kind
Speaker 2: of not be associated with those pasts.
Speaker 1: If it was for that or if it was just
Speaker 1: because he thought that was quite cool, right. He was
Speaker 1: described as a quiet man who mostly kept to himself.
Speaker 1: Michael Donovan was actually Craig Meehan's uncle. Oh, Karen and
Speaker 1: Craig had never mentioned Michael when talking about the family tree,
Speaker 1: so he was actually never investigated.
Speaker 2: So they did a family tree of three hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty and even Yeah, that's how big the family were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was weirdly never he actually never turned
Speaker 1: up for any of the searchers for Shannon strange since
Speaker 1: he was part of the family and didn't live very
Speaker 1: far away. Karen and Michael had actually met the previous
Speaker 1: November at the wake for Craig's father. Karen and Michael
Speaker 1: hit it off when drinking beer in the kitchen after
Speaker 1: the service. Another member of the family walked in when
Speaker 1: Karen was sitting on Michael's knee, allegedly falling all over him.
Speaker 1: Rumors started to spread about Karen having an affair with Michael,
Speaker 1: did he have something to do with the disappearance of
Speaker 1: Shannon to get some kind of sick revenge on Craig
Speaker 1: or Karen. On the morning of March fourteenth Police Poetry's
Speaker 1: birthday planned on chatting to Michael Donovan. He could have
Speaker 1: just been left off the family tree by mistake. So
Speaker 1: Michael only lived five minutes away from the Matthews house.
Speaker 2: So then he would have been doing if they were
Speaker 2: doing exactly, he definitely would have been door knocked in
Speaker 2: and I seem spoken to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Detective Paul Kenilwell and Nick Townsend got to Michael's
Speaker 1: home and knocked on the door, but there was no answer.
Speaker 1: These detectives themselves were very connected the case. To the case,
Speaker 1: they'd spoken to over seven hundred people themselves. A neighbor
Speaker 1: stuck the head out of the window and told them
Speaker 1: that Michael never answered the door. His car was outside,
Speaker 1: so was probably home. Michael never went anywhere without his car.
Speaker 1: Detectives asked if the lady had heard anything odd coming
Speaker 1: from his house. She said, yeah, she had. She'd heard
Speaker 1: footsteps sometimes, but they'd been little footsteps, possibly those of
Speaker 1: a child.
Speaker 2: Sorry, you've heard that for some guy who never comes
Speaker 2: out of his house and you're not.
Speaker 1: But he had a kid as well. I haven't said this,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, he had a kid as well. This
Speaker 1: was enough for detectives though the knocks weren't working, so
Speaker 1: they decided to force their way in and called for backup.
Speaker 1: The house was eerily silent until something really weird happened.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I feel so anxious.
Speaker 1: One of the officers, Nick, heard a little girl's voice say,
Speaker 1: stop it, you're frightening me. But where was the voice
Speaker 1: coming from? As Nick moved around the house, he thought
Speaker 1: that the voice was coming from the base of a
Speaker 1: double bed. He bent down out of an impossibly small
Speaker 1: hole wriggled out a scruffy, scared and tearful Shannon Matthew.
Speaker 1: I'm Shannon, she told Nick Townsend. Nick Townsend burst into
Speaker 1: tears as he took her outside to the police car.
Speaker 1: It was the middle of the day, Sammy.
Speaker 2: When you said earlier and you went when she was found,
Speaker 2: and you went like that, I just isn't that awful?
Speaker 2: I just assumed that.
Speaker 1: So both policemen had thought they'll be coming out of
Speaker 1: the house of the body. The detectives asked where Michael
Speaker 1: Donovan was, and Shannon said, he's where I was. He's
Speaker 1: under the bed.
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? What is happening?
Speaker 1: And he was Michael Donovan was lying under the bed
Speaker 1: in the fetal position. News spread like wildfire.
Speaker 2: You can't just move on from now.
Speaker 1: We are going to move on. We're gonna come back.
Speaker 1: People were overjoyed, especially Julie Bushby. No one was expecting
Speaker 1: it at all. Karen Matthews did not cry. She was
Speaker 1: taken to the station by two point thirty pm. She
Speaker 1: didn't really know what to do, but Karen confirmed that
Speaker 1: the girl behind the glass that she saw was her daughter, Shannon.
Speaker 1: The joyful reunion photograph didn't happen because police said to
Speaker 1: protect forensic evidence, that she couldn't see her ride away.
Speaker 2: Oh, that would be just impossible.
Speaker 1: Karen and Craig walked outside of their home three reporters
Speaker 1: and kissed each other. Julie Bushby told them to smile
Speaker 1: to the cameras, and they turned back and let out
Speaker 1: like a big smile. So Julie Bushby, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: A week after Shannon was found, Craig and Karen throw
Speaker 1: a party to celebrate. Karen told Julie Bushby that she
Speaker 1: had seen Shannon through a window and nothing more. But
Speaker 1: now the estate was going Is she okay? Is she
Speaker 1: going to come back?
Speaker 2: A week later?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What is happening?
Speaker 1: The community who had spent weeks looking for Shannon, were
Speaker 1: extremely worried. The next reporter that Shannon was actually doing well.
Speaker 1: They were starting to establish what had happened. Specifically, trained
Speaker 1: officers were gently questioning Shannon to establish what had occurred.
Speaker 1: In the weeks that followed, she would have daily ten
Speaker 1: minute question times at a special suite in a classroom
Speaker 1: at school. When Shannon was no longer held by police,
Speaker 1: she was then held by family services. She was then
Speaker 1: moved from the area. Neighbors were shocked when they saw
Speaker 1: Michael being taken away. He was dragged on his knees,
Speaker 1: refusing to get into the police car. Neighbors he hurled
Speaker 1: abuse at him. He yelled, don't hate me, I'm a
Speaker 1: poorly man.
Speaker 2: What is going on? I feel really yucky.
Speaker 1: Shannon sat safely in the back of the police car.
Speaker 1: The detectives took a moment to shake each other's hands.
Speaker 1: They told Shannon that everything was going to be okay.
Speaker 1: When the detective he has called the station to say
Speaker 1: that Shannon had been found, he assumed they meant a body.
Speaker 1: No one expected her to be safe. After weeks missing
Speaker 1: under Michael's bed, where he was hiding The police found
Speaker 1: a copy of the Sun newspaper advertising the now fifty
Speaker 1: thousand pounds reward and a prescription for tamazapam. He was
Speaker 1: taken to the Halifax Police station to be questioned. Shannon
Speaker 1: was given a coloring book and some pencils at the station.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just I want to do, you know,
Speaker 2: I said before. I feel like I'm reading a book.
Speaker 2: I want to flick to the end, just to see
Speaker 2: the end and then come back and read the rest.
Speaker 1: Police searched Michael's house and discovered a long strip of
Speaker 1: fabric emerging from a manhole in the hallway. When they
Speaker 1: found it, they found it had been secured to a beam.
Speaker 1: The other end had been tied around Shannon's waist to
Speaker 1: limit her movement inside the house when Michael went out.
Speaker 1: Officers also found a written list of rules. You must
Speaker 1: not make any noise or bang your feet. You must
Speaker 1: not go near the windows. You must not let anything
Speaker 1: or do anything without me being here. Keep the volume low,
Speaker 1: only eight or lower. You can play the Super Mario games,
Speaker 1: and you can play some DVDs, and you can play
Speaker 1: the CD music. The note was signed the letters IPU,
Speaker 1: meaning I promise you Shannon had been reading a child's
Speaker 1: magazine called Arrive Alive. Oh Wow, that's crazy, a colorful
Speaker 1: publication about traveling safely and choosing the safest roots. In
Speaker 1: the bedroom, two bags were packed with clothes, suggesting preparations
Speaker 1: to leave. Michael had faced an allegation of abducting his
Speaker 1: own daughter the previous year.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, why did it take?
Speaker 1: Though the matter was later withdrawn after social services intervened,
Speaker 1: which is probably why we didn't hear it through the courts.
Speaker 1: Police believed he was preparing to flee and take Shannon
Speaker 1: with him. Leon, Shannon's father, said it felt like winning
Speaker 1: the lottery when he heard the news. Julie Bushby ran
Speaker 1: through the estate shouting that Shannon had been found.
Speaker 2: Julie chill, bab yeah.
Speaker 1: Neighbors hugged one another, shaking their heads in disbelief. Overwhelmed
Speaker 1: that she was safe. Karen initially stood frozen before breaking
Speaker 1: down in tears, followed by Craig. Police officers were celebrating, too,
Speaker 1: one describing the moment as like anything they had ever
Speaker 1: experienced before. News footage showed Karen and Craig looking stunned.
Speaker 1: At one point, Julie shouted smile woman. Why isn't she smiling?
Speaker 1: For God's sake? Karen, smile God, Julie, She's controlling the
Speaker 1: whole thing. Karen turns towards the camera and forced a
Speaker 1: smile as sheeers erupted inside the home.
Speaker 2: I feel so anxious.
Speaker 1: Police gathered from across the area, pulling down missing posters,
Speaker 1: ripping them in half, and dancing in the streets. The
Speaker 1: community believed it had actually brought Shannon home. The search
Speaker 1: had cost three point two million pounds and involved more
Speaker 1: than three hundred officers.
Speaker 2: Which doesn't matter if your child has been exactated.
Speaker 1: When police formally confirmed they had found her, Craig wept,
Speaker 1: while Karen turned away, trying to be strong and conceal
Speaker 1: her emotions from her other children. Officers offered to drive
Speaker 1: Karen and Craig to the station, and Karen gathered her belongings.
Speaker 1: There was so much to absorb. How could Michael Donovan
Speaker 1: be responsible? And why? Questions raised through their minds on
Speaker 1: the journey. But the story does not end there.
Speaker 2: Better not. I've got questions myself.
Speaker 1: At the station, Sharon appeared calm but confused, seemingly overwhelmed
Speaker 1: by the attention and unsure of what was actually happening.
Speaker 1: When Karen arrived, she was told that she and Craig
Speaker 1: could not see Shannon face to face because forensic evidence
Speaker 1: had to be preserved. Shannon was placed in emergency care
Speaker 1: under police protection for seventy two hours while investigations continued.
Speaker 1: They had to be thorough. They didn't want to kind
Speaker 1: of risk the same thing with Madelie McCann. They were
Speaker 1: very I think they are very set on that.
Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean, I don't know where this
Speaker 2: is going, so I don't know if they're thinking the
Speaker 2: parents might or Craig and Karen might, like I don't know,
Speaker 2: have something be involved in it somehow, But if not,
Speaker 2: it feels particularly cruel to not let hug her mom
Speaker 2: and vice versa far out.
Speaker 1: She would not return home until inquiries were Completearon and
Speaker 1: Craig were taken to a hotel for the night, both
Speaker 1: to rest and to avoid the press. At their house.
Speaker 1: At school, children burst into tears upon hearing that Shannon
Speaker 1: was alive. The estate celebrated late into the night, of course,
Speaker 1: led by Julie Bushby.
Speaker 2: Who is this Julie?
Speaker 1: I kind of love her. Local shops donated champagne. One
Speaker 1: resident set up strobe lights and crowds chanted Shannon's name. Initially,
Speaker 1: Michael Donovan refused to speak. When he did make a statement,
Speaker 1: he claimed he was not acting alone. He alleged that
Speaker 1: Karen Matthews had been involved and they had planned to
Speaker 1: split the reward money.
Speaker 2: Nope, nope, nope, nope. I don't like that. Take that
Speaker 2: back immediately and change that. I don't like that.
Speaker 1: According to Michael, he and Karen had agreed that he
Speaker 1: would stage the aductions of one of her children, choosing
Speaker 1: Shannon because they believed her disappearance would fetch the highest reward. Karen,
Speaker 1: he said, expected the fund to grow significantly just look
Speaker 1: at Madela mccairn no, and planned for Shannon to remain
Speaker 1: hidden until it reached a substantial sum no, after which
Speaker 1: they would divide the money. Michael claimed that when the
Speaker 1: reward reached fifty pounds, he stopped hearing from Karen, who
Speaker 1: had said she would provide further instructions.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: He also alleged that he felt pressured to follow her
Speaker 1: directions because she had threatened him with violence, referring acquaintances
Speaker 1: of hers with criminal histories. He insisted he did not
Speaker 1: harm Shannon, saying he cared for her and brought her
Speaker 1: new clothes and toys. He had his own daughter, he
Speaker 1: did not harm her. When Karen finally saw Shannon through
Speaker 1: a glass petition at the station, she showed no emotion. No.
Speaker 1: Only repeatedly was that Shannon was wearing new clothes. No.
Speaker 1: On March two thousand and eight, three days after Shannon
Speaker 1: was found, Michael Donovan was formally charged with kidnapping and
Speaker 1: false imprisonment. He was remanded in custody and later appeared
Speaker 1: at the Leeds Crown Court via video link. A trial
Speaker 1: date was sent was set for eleventh of November, eight
Speaker 1: months later. Back on the estate, some neighbors began voicing
Speaker 1: concerns about Karen's behavior. Do you I guess who one
Speaker 1: of the neighbors was.
Speaker 2: She's like a character that's been written in as the
Speaker 2: kind of almost unofficial, not the narration if you are
Speaker 2: what you get home.
Speaker 1: She's had the voice of the people. They wondered whether
Speaker 1: the strain had become too much. Shannon had still not
Speaker 1: returned home, which looked really weird. Yet Karen did not
Speaker 1: appear outwardly distressed about the in fact, she wasn't asking
Speaker 1: any questions.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: She asked few questions and showed little visible anger towards Donovan,
Speaker 1: who was her boyfriend's uncle.
Speaker 2: After all, it doesn't matter who it is if someone
Speaker 2: has taken your child. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: In hindsight, some residents reflected on what they had described
Speaker 1: as erratic shift in behavior. In fact, Karen was still
Speaker 1: partying most nights while Shannon had disappeared, relaxed and even
Speaker 1: laughing with Craig when cameras were absence, but adopting the
Speaker 1: role of a distraught mother when media crews arrived. At
Speaker 1: the time, however, most people were preoccupied with actually finding Shannon.
Speaker 1: Police informed Karen and Craig that Shannon could not return
Speaker 1: home until interviews and medical examinations were complete, including check
Speaker 1: for any signs of abuse. Karen reported the responded okay,
Speaker 1: and did not pass on any messages to Ship.
Speaker 2: Even I said, that's so cruel that they have the
Speaker 2: mom see her.
Speaker 1: Police issued a public statement explaining that Shannon had been
Speaker 1: placed under emergency Police Protection order. An emergency police protection
Speaker 1: order while they established the full facts of her disappearance,
Speaker 1: they stress that her welfare remain their primary concern and
Speaker 1: that the process could take time. Behind the scenes, however,
Speaker 1: investigators were also assessing serious allegations made by Michael Donovan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'd have to be because they can't like it.
Speaker 1: They can't just let that go.
Speaker 2: And it also wouldn't I don't think it would take
Speaker 2: that long to have like the like the DNA testing
Speaker 2: and stuff done to then be able.
Speaker 1: To let the exactly hug their child.
Speaker 2: And vice versa.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Further complications soon emerged. Craig, Karen's boyfriend, had been
Speaker 1: arrested after officers searching for Shannon examined his computer and
Speaker 1: allegedly discovered indecent images of children.
Speaker 2: What the fuck.
Speaker 1: He was formally charged the following day with eleven offenses.
Speaker 1: Soon after, his sister Amanda, who lived next door, was
Speaker 1: arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender, and his mother, Alisia,
Speaker 1: who was also Michael Donovan's sister, was arrested on suspicion
Speaker 1: of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Both women
Speaker 1: were later released on bail.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Frustration grew among Karen's friends as rumors circulated across the estate.
Speaker 1: Julie Bushby and her friend Natalie, decided to confront Karen.
Speaker 1: They contacted a police officer, Christine Freeman, and said they
Speaker 1: intended to press Karen for answers. Freeman agreed to assist,
Speaker 1: so they picked up Karen in her car, with Karen
Speaker 1: sitting in the front passenger seat and before collecting Julie
Speaker 1: and Natalie. During the drive Julian Natalie told Karen about
Speaker 1: the speculation in the community and directly asked whether she
Speaker 1: had known where Shannon was all along. Karen began to
Speaker 1: sob it's true. She said, it's true. She was arrested
Speaker 1: shortly afterwards.
Speaker 2: She just completely folded toe and Natalie. Yeah, after all
Speaker 2: of that, it was Julie that God had, Oh my God.
Speaker 1: On the sixth of April two thousand and eight, forty
Speaker 1: seven days after Shannon's disappearance, Karen Matthews was arrested on
Speaker 1: suspicion of perverting the courst of justice and child neglect.
Speaker 1: An investigation was also launched into the role of social services,
Speaker 1: examining whether Moore had could have been done to safeguard
Speaker 1: her children from her.
Speaker 2: Oh My God.
Speaker 1: Karen had previously made critical public comments about the family
Speaker 1: of Madeline McCann, accusing them of being privileged and financially secure.
Speaker 1: It later emerged that a call had been made from
Speaker 1: the Matthews home to the McCann fund requesting financial assistance What.
Speaker 1: The request was denied.
Speaker 2: While Shannon was missing, they called the Madeline McCann twice
Speaker 2: and said, you've got lots of money for the search
Speaker 2: for your for this child. Can we have some for yeah.
Speaker 1: A spokesperson said the approach had been blunt, suggesting that
Speaker 1: Madeline's family had plenty of money and that they should
Speaker 1: and some should go to Shannon. Although the McCanns were
Speaker 1: reportedly distressed by Shannon's disappearance and had considered offering support,
Speaker 1: police advised them not to as Karen had actually come
Speaker 1: under scrutiny really early in the investigation WHOA. Police believe
Speaker 1: Karen had been influenced by the disappearance of Madeline McCann What.
Speaker 1: According to Michael Donovan, the plan was to release Shannon
Speaker 1: at Jewsbury Market, where he would find her by chance
Speaker 1: in view of CCTV cameras, providing apparent proof to claim
Speaker 1: the reward. Although Karen and Michael later gave conflicting accounts,
Speaker 1: Investigators were able to reconstruct a timeline from elements of
Speaker 1: both statements. Police established that Karen and Michael met at
Speaker 1: a small cafe in the days before Shannon vanished. Karen
Speaker 1: arrived with her younger daughter and outlined her plan over
Speaker 1: a cup of tea. She said she would report Sharon
Speaker 1: missing and once a reward reached fifty thousand pounds, she
Speaker 1: would contact him. She reportedly believed the money would accumulate
Speaker 1: within days. Karen handed Michael a printed sheet detailing the
Speaker 1: plan and instructed him to dispose of it. Michael later
Speaker 1: claimed he only agreed after she threatened him. Karen never
Speaker 1: formally omitted her role in the offense. When news with
Speaker 1: her arrests spread, many local Residsdence felt deeply portrayed. Her
Speaker 1: home was vandalized and eventually boarded up with metal screens.
Speaker 1: Her other children were taken into care. Shannon remained under
Speaker 1: the supervision of Kirkley's Children Services and was later moved
Speaker 1: out of the Jewsberry area. She never returned home to
Speaker 1: the estate, and her friend said it felt as though
Speaker 1: they lost her all over again.
Speaker 2: What about her biological dad. There must have been reasons, Yeah.
Speaker 1: There has been reasons there, Yeah, Meanwhile, Craig was convicted
Speaker 1: of eleven counts of possessing indecent images of children, all
Speaker 1: found on his computer. He was sentenced at twenty weeks
Speaker 1: in prison.
Speaker 2: Twenty weeks.
Speaker 1: Twenty weeks yeah, oh my god. But actually it'd spent
Speaker 1: more than that in Roman, so he was actually released
Speaker 1: straight away.
Speaker 2: Having eleven counts of having child exploitation materials. Well, that's fucked.
Speaker 1: Karen and Michael were tried together beginning on the eleventh
Speaker 1: of November two thousand and eight. The trial asked just
Speaker 1: over three weeks. Observers noted that neither displayed visible emotion
Speaker 1: as proceedings began. The prosecution described Karen as manipulative and
Speaker 1: as honest, arguing that the disappearance had been a calculated
Speaker 1: deception designed to generate reward money. The court heard that
Speaker 1: Shannon had been lured with the promise of going to
Speaker 1: affair and was then confined. Michael denied mistreating her, claiming
Speaker 1: he bought her clothes and took her on evening walks
Speaker 1: with her face concealed by a hoodie. However, evidence emerged
Speaker 1: of the strap used to restrain her while on remand
Speaker 1: Michael was assaulted several times by other inmates, and appeared
Speaker 1: in court with a broken jaw. A forensic toxicologist testified
Speaker 1: that hair samples indicated Shannon had been given travel sickness
Speaker 1: medication and to Mazapan to sedate her while she was
Speaker 1: locked up. Test she may have been administered each substances
Speaker 1: over an extended period, leaving her drowsy and disorientated. On
Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of November, Karen gave evidence, frequently breaking
Speaker 1: down in tears. She claimed she was frightened of Craig
Speaker 1: and said he urged her to take responsibility. Over the
Speaker 1: course of testimony, she offered multiple differing accounts. The inconsistencies
Speaker 1: undermined her credibility no shit. Both Karen and Michael were
Speaker 1: found guilty of perverting the course of justice, kidnapping, and
Speaker 1: false imprisonment. Each was sentenced to eight years in prison
Speaker 1: eight eight years that's it. During her incarceration, Julie Bushby
Speaker 1: remained Karen's only regular visitor, hoping to understand her motives.
Speaker 2: She was so obsessed with.
Speaker 1: Karen continued to deny involvement. Reports suggested she was assaulted
Speaker 1: in prison, sometimes meeting Julie with visible injuries.
Speaker 2: So she denied she was involved at all. Did she
Speaker 2: try to pin the whole.
Speaker 1: Thing on Craig?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Craig and Michael organized it together.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Julie kept detailed notes of their conversations, later
Speaker 1: saying that Karen's version of events changed repeatedly, even to her.
Speaker 1: In twenty ten, Social Services issued a statement concluding that
Speaker 1: there had been no clear indication that such events could
Speaker 1: have been foreseen. Karen and Michael released in March twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: after only searching half of it, only serving half of
Speaker 1: their sentence.
Speaker 2: He's gonna say, what the hell. Yeah, that's not even
Speaker 2: that's not even four years. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Four years later, when Karen was released from prison, she
Speaker 1: was driven in a private vehicle to a woman's hostel.
Speaker 1: She underwent a makeover and was provided with a new identity.
Speaker 1: Despite the precautions, at least one onlooker claimed to recognize
Speaker 1: her immediately, remarking that the level of preparation for her
Speaker 1: abilitation seemed extraordinary, as though she were the victim rather
Speaker 1: than the perpetrator of the crime. Shannon Matthews and her
Speaker 1: siblings were also given new identities and placed with different
Speaker 1: families for their own protection. Shannon never ever returned home.
Speaker 1: She never returned to the estate or to the area,
Speaker 1: and did not see her former friends or neighbors again.
Speaker 1: Questions were raised about why Shannon's biological father, Leon or
Speaker 1: her grandparents were not in fact granted custody, though the
Speaker 1: specific legal and welfare considerations behind those decisions have never
Speaker 1: ever been publicly detailed. Shannon's grandfather, Gordon, spoke openly about
Speaker 1: his heartbreaking at losing contact with her for a second time.
Speaker 1: He and his wife June, occasionally receive updates or photographs
Speaker 1: through officials channels, and said she looked well and beautiful.
Speaker 1: Direct contact, however, did not resume. Gordon expressed the hope
Speaker 1: that one day, when she was old enough to fully
Speaker 1: understand what had happened, she might one day knock on
Speaker 1: that door, though he feared he might not live to
Speaker 1: see that day. It also emerged that in the weeks
Speaker 1: after Shannon disappeared, Karen had appeared on television with a
Speaker 1: psychic who claimed the child had been taken by someone
Speaker 1: known to both Karen and Craig. During the broadcast, the
Speaker 1: psychic turned to Karen and suggested she knew exactly where
Speaker 1: her daughter was The footage was reportedly passed on to police,
Speaker 1: but did not promptmediate action at the time.
Speaker 2: It's a psychic. You know that police aren't going to
Speaker 2: take that seriously.
Speaker 1: The case left a lasting mark on public perceptions of
Speaker 1: trust and parenthood. Behind the headlines and corporatesed lies acquired
Speaker 1: a truth. Childhood is meant to be rooted in safety, consistency,
Speaker 1: and care. When that foundation is shaken, the loss is
Speaker 1: not the only harm that occurred, but the ordinary, everyday
Speaker 1: security that should have surrounded it. The reassurance at home
Speaker 1: is a place of protection, not one of fear, and
Speaker 1: that g love is a story of Shannon Matthews solely.
Speaker 2: Heck, yes, old, Yes, my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that insane?
Speaker 2: Oh so when you like, for a lot of this story,
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, after after Elizabeth Smart, we're going
Speaker 2: to do a story. Yeah that was abducted and killed. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm not really on board with this. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't while doing this, Oh.
Speaker 1: My old, yeah, my god, yes, yeah, isn't it just incredible?
Speaker 1: Like the book recommendations as Shannon Betrayed from Birth by
Speaker 1: Rose Martin, The documentaries are The Hunt for Shannon Matthews
Speaker 1: and disappearance for Shannon Matthews. And there's a dramatized version
Speaker 1: which I've heard is great called The Mare Side.
Speaker 2: And a musical apparently.
Speaker 1: A musical apparently as well, the Shannon Matthews musical.
Speaker 2: I'm googling, which we've discussed before, is really an interesting
Speaker 2: thing to do on an audio medium. But I need
Speaker 2: to see what these people look like, because I can't
Speaker 2: believe I haven't heard of this. I don't recognize any
Speaker 2: of these photos, which is terrible because if it was,
Speaker 2: you know, nine months after Madeline McCann, exactly, why do
Speaker 2: I know that so well? And not and not these well.
Speaker 1: I guess because you know it was all a hoax.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not for twenty four days?
Speaker 1: No, I know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, God, I mean, I'm glad I didn't know it
Speaker 2: for the story because I was genuinely sitting here like hooked,
Speaker 2: like I was watching but not even a drue crime
Speaker 2: doc or I felt like I was just like reading
Speaker 2: a book or watching a story like.
Speaker 1: It's because there's so many twists and turns that you
Speaker 1: like what is going on to a few podcasts that
Speaker 1: were so angry about Karen Matthews from the start and
Speaker 1: it Yeah, but it's interesting when you go, oh my god, no,
Speaker 1: she was safe the whole time, And I.
Speaker 2: Was waiting this whole time for you to say, Julie
Speaker 2: Bush benect, she was a red herring, just like just
Speaker 2: Auntie in the community.
Speaker 1: Red herring something like that. But honestly, like, I don't
Speaker 1: think that there was any like there has never been
Speaker 1: from anything that I could report, any sexual abuse. There
Speaker 1: was no form of any torture or anything. From all
Speaker 1: I could tell, there was her being restrained and not
Speaker 1: allowed to do anything, but she got to watch TV
Speaker 1: and got to listen to music and.
Speaker 2: Literally just they just wanted the reward money and they
Speaker 2: thought that a good way to get thousands of pounds
Speaker 2: was to kidnap her own door. That is so fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And also like you're thinking about, like how
Speaker 1: many million pounds was spent, like the state like Julie
Speaker 1: bushby like printing hundreds of T shirts, printing hundreds of posters,
Speaker 1: like and like they're rich people doing this, Like.
Speaker 2: The trauma on that entire community of thinking there might
Speaker 2: be some kidnapper around. Was a kid around, but you know,
Speaker 2: and oh my god, that might be one of the
Speaker 2: worst mothers I've ever heard of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that that is the whole
Speaker 1: thing about this musical apparently as well, she you know,
Speaker 1: has the red rings around her eyes like she's in
Speaker 1: the news report and everything.
Speaker 2: Like I really hate these parody musicals that pop up
Speaker 2: about like real things that have happened in the world,
Speaker 2: and they pop up really quickly. They alwaysn't like you know,
Speaker 2: comedy festivals and.
Speaker 1: Stuffed the musical Chappelle the musical, Like there's Creak the music. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there was one called Wolf Creak the musical. No, it's
Speaker 1: all these yeah.
Speaker 2: Like there's you know, a Luigi Mangioni one. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: just this like thing and that have written really quickly
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, this is the funny thing that
Speaker 2: just and yeah, just write a musical about Mormons or
Speaker 2: historical figure and the Beast America or something, yes, or
Speaker 2: the best musical I think.
Speaker 1: Mister Beast YouTuber. Okay, but yeah, but I know I
Speaker 1: find I foind it a really interesting case. And it's
Speaker 1: also I mean, the fact that it was you know,
Speaker 1: hoax in a way undermines the class issue. But but
Speaker 1: but the way it was but in a way it
Speaker 1: was treated not as I don't know.
Speaker 2: It sounds like the police certainly didn't treat it in like.
Speaker 1: Any No, no, no, I think the police, the local
Speaker 1: police were really concerned about it and didn't want it
Speaker 1: to be scrutinized in the same way that the you know,
Speaker 1: the Portuguese police handled the Medela mccainn case.
Speaker 2: Isn't it amazing how often it comes up in stories
Speaker 2: we're doing on this pod, how something has happened in
Speaker 2: close succession to another story and that's changed the way
Speaker 2: it's investigated, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. But like
Speaker 2: everything influences everything else, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And you look at like, you know, Madela
Speaker 1: McCain will has some stage that the Madla McCain disappearance.
Speaker 1: You go, okay, well, the parents were heavily scrutins at
Speaker 1: the time, but they were very classy. They were at
Speaker 1: to tap usp like you know, like it was just
Speaker 1: posed very differently in the media.
Speaker 2: Well, just the fact that we know every detail of
Speaker 2: it so well sitting here in Australia when it's an
Speaker 2: English family on holiday in Portugal and we know it
Speaker 2: so well. Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was posed very differently.
Speaker 2: You can bring up the whole thing about John Vne
Speaker 2: Ramsey as well. You know Madeline McCain and John Vane
Speaker 2: Ramsey too, you know, up more upper class you know,
Speaker 2: quote unquote seen as classically beautiful children, blonde hair, blue eyes,
Speaker 2: all of that. You know, it's like, yeah, it's really fun.
Speaker 1: It's really fucked. And also like the I know, I
Speaker 1: think in in the UK, we in Australia know of
Speaker 1: a class system, where in Australia it is an unspoken
Speaker 1: class system where it's really interesting because is that.
Speaker 2: It isn't I'll argue that with things like it's the
Speaker 2: same here in Australia, Like there are so many cases
Speaker 2: of particularly First Nations people that are killed or have
Speaker 2: gone missing, and there is outcry at the fact that
Speaker 2: it's not being covered in the media the same as
Speaker 2: other disappearances or murders or anything like. There is very
Speaker 2: much a class system here.
Speaker 1: No, it's not spoken, Yeah it's not.
Speaker 2: It's only spoken about in like when something like that happens.
Speaker 2: It's not like a general data taken.
Speaker 1: About all it is it is. I think it's very
Speaker 1: silent in Australia. It is what the media deem is
Speaker 1: fit for them to talk about and what is not.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's not the same as it's not
Speaker 1: the same as the UK, where there was a there
Speaker 1: was an assigned class system and now it's unspoken. In Australia,
Speaker 1: we do not see class like we do see class,
Speaker 1: but it is not spoken about at all until it's
Speaker 1: deemed what we talk about and what we don't talk.
Speaker 2: And I suppose that's what I'm saying. What is spoken
Speaker 2: about is people saying after the fact, yes, that wasn't
Speaker 2: spoken about because we're classes. That's when it's spoken about.
Speaker 1: It is classes, but it's not spoken about like it's
Speaker 1: it's everyone looks at each other, like you know, if
Speaker 1: there's like you know a you know a home, you know,
Speaker 1: an unhoused person that is going off their nut, you know,
Speaker 1: like it is. It is spoken about, but it is
Speaker 1: not spoken about. And I find that really interesting. The
Speaker 1: people that would see my brother as a homeless person
Speaker 1: where they do not see they'll see me in a
Speaker 1: completely different line. It is, so it's not spoken about.
Speaker 2: You literally grew up in the same house.
Speaker 1: Exactly. So I just feel like, yeah, in in in
Speaker 1: the UK, I kind of saw like my digs please
Speaker 1: have a conversation, I kind of see my my view
Speaker 1: of it is, as a young kid growing up in Australia,
Speaker 1: I knew that there was a class system.
Speaker 2: In the UK, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: And in Australia we do have a class system. We
Speaker 1: call people bogans, we call people, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: I'm a glorified bogan. But there are people that you go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's a cash up bogan. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a bogan. They're fast North Queensland there. You know, I
Speaker 1: can't know, I couldn't pronounce that probably, but you know,
Speaker 1: but there, you know, there are so many people that
Speaker 1: we go they're that person, They're that person, They're a bohemian,
Speaker 1: they live there, they live there, they live there. I
Speaker 1: think in a lot of ways in Australia it is
Speaker 1: not based so much on accent as it is based
Speaker 1: on location. You know, Like I don't know, like maybe
Speaker 1: that is a thing because you know, we look at
Speaker 1: a place like like where the mushroom cook trial looking
Speaker 1: more well, that is a disadvantage place that there is
Speaker 1: a lot of housing commissions, there are there's a lot
Speaker 1: of unemployment there, and there are certain parts of Australia
Speaker 1: where there is just a certain part where you go
Speaker 1: or that that region is. For some reason, the government
Speaker 1: have not focused as highly on that. The social work
Speaker 1: system is really disadvantage the like housing and everything. It's
Speaker 1: a mess everywhere, but God, in Australia we've got such
Speaker 1: a big problem with class, like we have got such
Speaker 1: a big problem with class. I mean, we've got a
Speaker 1: major problem with traditional owners of this land, but we
Speaker 1: also have a huge problem with people that are unhoused.
Speaker 1: That you know, and you see it all the time.
Speaker 1: It pops up all the time. But I think in
Speaker 1: Australia it's maybe more maybe it's less spoken about it.
Speaker 1: Do you think like he.
Speaker 2: Didn't the right way?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I don't know, I find it in Australia.
Speaker 1: It's like people that live in you know, a commission housing,
Speaker 1: which it was, and it was it was in a
Speaker 1: state we don't see like we we sometimes you know,
Speaker 1: like I remember when you know in the lockdown.
Speaker 2: Exactly what I was. There were for international or even
Speaker 2: in state listeners you might not know this. There were
Speaker 2: public housing towers, so like you know big apartment buildings
Speaker 2: that are all public housing, yes, that were literally locked
Speaker 2: down as in the people who lived in those buildings
Speaker 2: were not allowed to leave their front door because of
Speaker 2: COVID the COVID spread, but everywhere else in the state
Speaker 2: people could move around the very least kind of five
Speaker 2: kilometers from their home and these towers were literally locked down.
Speaker 2: It was a boring like that that it's just yeah,
Speaker 2: you're right, and I mean, we're telling these stories from
Speaker 2: our lives here in Melbourne, Australia. Like gosh, the people
Speaker 2: listening will have I'm certain that there's.
Speaker 1: So many other places, Oh my god, yeah.
Speaker 2: Have examples of that. But you're right. It's it's you say,
Speaker 2: you grew up in Australia knowing that there was a
Speaker 2: really obvious class system in England, yes, and not thinking
Speaker 2: there was here until you grew up and witness it yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, you and I speak from a
Speaker 1: place of privilege where we go about you know, we're
Speaker 1: lucky enough to live, you know, being able to afford
Speaker 1: you know, like you know, rent or a mortgage or whatever.
Speaker 1: But you go, oh my god, like there's people in
Speaker 1: Australia alone that completely like they're blind, Like you know,
Speaker 1: like like a lot of the time people are invisible
Speaker 1: to funding to whatever it is to government. Like I
Speaker 1: looked at like, you know, the when I lived in
Speaker 1: I lived in foot screen before I moved here, and
Speaker 1: oh my god, the food bank there was there was
Speaker 1: always like a food bank line around the corner and
Speaker 1: you'd see this as as as a different it felt
Speaker 1: like a different world because you're like, this is you know,
Speaker 1: like we're living in a place that I never thought
Speaker 1: for some reason that there was this this class divide,
Speaker 1: and it's it's very much there, but it's very hidden
Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of the time people
Speaker 1: don't talk about it, and it's it's so there, and
Speaker 1: I feel like we we relate a lot more to
Speaker 1: the UK. Yeah, and because you know about you know,
Speaker 1: our heritage and everything as well, it's like, well, we
Speaker 1: are that, you know, sovereignty was never seated. We live
Speaker 1: in this place where it's like, oh, we're lucky to
Speaker 1: live here, but we live with these you know, the
Speaker 1: traditional owners of the land and we should be respecting
Speaker 1: this but also like you know, our economic Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I know. I found the Shannon Matthew's case so interesting
Speaker 1: and also really interesting to look at the divide and go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's an upperclass. There's all these different layers.
Speaker 2: Again, the fact that in Melbourne, Australia, I know every
Speaker 2: detail about the Madeline McCann case so well, and only
Speaker 2: nine months later, from the same country, a nine year
Speaker 2: old girl were missing for a month and there was
Speaker 2: a massive search. And I'm even now looking up the
Speaker 2: photos and go I recognize any of these people at all.
Speaker 2: That like the fact of that, yes, you can't tell me,
Speaker 2: that's not about it so sad, especially the fact that
Speaker 2: it was turned out to be the bloody mum setting
Speaker 2: it up.
Speaker 1: That should be like it, Oh my god, yeah, bloody hell, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, Oh Sammy, It's a huge story. It's a
Speaker 1: huge story. And so I'm going to go and watch
Speaker 1: the more Side TV show. I'm really interested in that,
Speaker 1: and I need to see the documentaries about it to
Speaker 1: look at the because I haven't. I kind of not
Speaker 1: watched the footage just because I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: bombarded with all these different interpretations of everything.
Speaker 2: But just look up the facts and tell the story yourself.
Speaker 1: But there's all these you know, the footage of the
Speaker 1: interviews and the press conference, and now I really want
Speaker 1: to go and watch Wow.
Speaker 2: How did you hear about this story.
Speaker 1: I heard about it by someone talking about it on
Speaker 1: another documentary. It was about Elizabeth Smart. It was a podcast.
Speaker 1: Listen to it and they said, oh my god, imagine
Speaker 1: if this was you know, Shannon Matthews.
Speaker 2: And I was like, whos Matthews?
Speaker 1: And I looked it up and I went, oh, this
Speaker 1: is a really interesting disappearance story. And then because it
Speaker 1: was a disappearance where they were actually found, yes, okay,
Speaker 1: because quite a rare thing. So they said Shannon Matthews.
Speaker 1: And then as I looked into it, I went, holy shit,
Speaker 1: children alive. It was a laugh she laugh a mom.
Speaker 1: You know that was another crazy element, wasn't the stout.
Speaker 2: That you said that they said one hundred percent of
Speaker 2: children who aren't found in.
Speaker 1: How long it was a few days?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that must obviously before this one.
Speaker 1: Then yes, yeah. God.
Speaker 2: Also, I must say so I know that I correct people.
Speaker 1: You know that.
Speaker 2: But the only person who does that more than I
Speaker 2: is my dear sister, oh CAC. And I know when
Speaker 2: she's listened to a story because she'll just message me.
Speaker 2: She won't say I've just listened to the episode. She'll
Speaker 2: just say things out of the blue, such as this text.
Speaker 2: Some other kidnappings without ransom notes Elizabeth Fritzel, J C.
Speaker 2: Lee Duggard and the victims taken by Ariel Castro.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, j C. Duggard's definitely on my radar.
Speaker 2: So yes, we had in the Elizabeth Smart story. I'd said,
Speaker 2: I know there are there will be them, but I
Speaker 2: can't think off the top of my head kidnappings that
Speaker 2: have resulted in someone returning alive that have not come
Speaker 2: with ransom notes at all. My sister will always tell
Speaker 2: me wrong, these are the people. This is another one.
Speaker 1: It's another one, for sure, and it just I don't know.
Speaker 1: I find this one so fascinating that her mum could
Speaker 1: stand by for the fucking long, like I think in
Speaker 1: the first place, I know going she'd fetch more because
Speaker 1: she's a girl, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It is
Speaker 1: disgusting and yeah, just and I feel so sorry for
Speaker 1: the poor people in the state as well that gave
Speaker 1: their whole heart to this, thinking this could be my daughter,
Speaker 1: this could be my kid. And then they're out searching
Speaker 1: all the time. They you know, are in the same
Speaker 1: positions as Karen Matthews is, and they are out there
Speaker 1: all their resources, everything and I also like, I don't
Speaker 1: know the full extent of the relationship of Shannon's grandparents,
Speaker 1: but from my reading, it felt like they did provide
Speaker 1: quite a stable like they were working class family, but
Speaker 1: they really did provide a stable unit for Karen Matthews.
Speaker 1: And they had seven kids, and I just they had
Speaker 1: a huge falling out with Karen Matthews previously, and they
Speaker 1: had just kind of thought, well, let's kind of patch
Speaker 1: that up because we want to see the grandkids. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, and Karen always used to like that,
Speaker 1: as you know, dangling that carrot of like you can't
Speaker 1: see the grandkids, you can't see the grand kids, and
Speaker 1: she'd stay with them and use them anytimes you want it.
Speaker 1: So I don't know the full extent to the grandparents.
Speaker 1: Maybe you know more than me, maybe you want to
Speaker 1: write in, but I just find that really interesting. And
Speaker 1: hopefully if Shannon one day does feel comfortable enough, I mean,
Speaker 1: you would never trust anyone again. But if she does
Speaker 1: feel comfortable enough, I wonder if she will ever reach
Speaker 1: out to the grandparents, if she feels like that is
Speaker 1: something she wants to do. I would feel like someone
Speaker 1: like Julie Bushby would love to hear from Shannon Matthews.
Speaker 2: But you know, but Julie Bushby has her note pattern
Speaker 2: pen ready to go for her own e memore.
Speaker 1: The funny thing about Julie as well. So apparently, like
Speaker 1: you know that Karen was always like a pathological liar,
Speaker 1: and every time she tells the story it was different.
Speaker 1: But Julie would go every single chance she get, just
Speaker 1: filling out a NOTEPAP. And I feel like I have
Speaker 1: I have actually looked this up, and I I know
Speaker 1: in my head, I know who she's played by, and
Speaker 1: in my head I know that this person would absolutely
Speaker 1: play this person. So if I look up Julie Bushby
Speaker 1: and I look up more Sides, so who played Julie
Speaker 1: Bushby in More Side?
Speaker 2: It's what a great character. And she's not a character,
Speaker 2: she's a cute like an actual person. Happened, but it
Speaker 2: was such a character.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was just planning for I was picturing that was
Speaker 2: going somewhere that she.
Speaker 1: Some crazy I know, yeah, this woman, you would know her.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what chevn Finnan. But she's an incredible actor.
Speaker 1: That is just in every single theme.
Speaker 2: I was picturing someone with the typical like Internet Karen haircut.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, oh I'm wrong. Actually this is the person
Speaker 1: who played Julie bushby Sheridan Smith.
Speaker 4: What.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay, just like a young hot actress. Yeah
Speaker 2: that's not what I pictured at all.
Speaker 1: No, but that's it. Yeah, but anyway, I hate it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, that that woman that I was just talking
Speaker 1: about the yeah, chevon Finnanan. She is one of those
Speaker 1: actors in the UK that just go oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: Was she in the show at all?
Speaker 1: Have you just yeah, yeah she played it?
Speaker 2: Just brought her up?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, she yeah, she was a detective in it.
Speaker 1: So I think she's the one that actually finds.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's whoa what a stories.
Speaker 1: That mean anywhere? I wish you'd passed.
Speaker 2: Oh he's doing a weirdle like double hand wave goodbye
Speaker 2: to me. I'm still like, you're gonna pressed up recording,
Speaker 2: but I'll still be in your house. Oh get rid
Speaker 2: of me, I'll find you.
Speaker 1: Oh no, do you do the mailbag? Come back up
Speaker 1: with the elms? Hey? Gee, love you? Ready for the
Speaker 1: mail bab.
Speaker 2: I always am and the female bag.
Speaker 1: A nice one by the way.
Speaker 2: Just trying add some puns today.
Speaker 1: Some good stuff. We've got some lovely messages when people
Speaker 1: comment under the Spotify episodes. We've got Maddie rights. Under
Speaker 1: the kin Wall episode, she writes a reputation for brilliant.
Speaker 1: Who is he Bright's Courtney? I'm dead? That cracked me up.
Speaker 1: We've got from Jen Oh my god, my gigantic wild dog.
Speaker 1: Buddha was seven on Valentine's Day as well.
Speaker 2: We've got but and Digs have the very same.
Speaker 1: Birthday right, seven killer gram laptop, sorry, sixty kilogram laptop.
Speaker 1: Did you read sixty as I have? You know that
Speaker 1: I'm not very good at reading numbers.
Speaker 2: We have six huge, sixty kilos.
Speaker 1: Huge huge. We have Gemma the way I yelled disarm
Speaker 1: at my phone.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, the bomb him All episode. For some reason,
Speaker 2: Sam and I couldn't think of the word for the
Speaker 2: opposite of detonating a book and you know what that episode. Also,
Speaker 2: I've had the most like real time text reactions from
Speaker 2: friends while they were listening. One of them was our
Speaker 2: friend Alex. So we've spoken about on the pod and
Speaker 2: you said in a speak pipe and there was no
Speaker 2: preamble to it. I didn't know he was listening at
Speaker 2: the time, I just got a message saying you disarm
Speaker 2: a bomb.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, thank you. Elizabeth says it's Bubba.
Speaker 1: How funny to hear myself on a pod. I loved.
Speaker 1: I laughed with you and cried listening to this terrible crime.
Speaker 1: What a mad Danish man. I must watch the doc
Speaker 1: but only after I've finished binging your pod. Nearly there, George.
Speaker 1: And my daughter g is a mad Hamilton musical lover.
Speaker 2: But it must be a Georgia thing, must.
Speaker 1: Be and can sing every song mad, excuse hang on
Speaker 1: check out. Unfortunately, she could never afford to see the musical,
Speaker 1: had to put other things first. I will gift her
Speaker 1: tickets one day when it's back in OZ.
Speaker 2: Love you guys, and you know what, of all the musicals,
Speaker 2: Hamilton is the one that there is the greatest ever
Speaker 2: version of it on stage. But you can watch on
Speaker 2: Disney Plus, so if you can afford a Disney Plus subscription,
Speaker 2: even if you know, just get it from a month
Speaker 2: and binge.
Speaker 1: It a lot of times.
Speaker 2: That is the full stage production on Broadway with the
Speaker 2: original Broadway and so absolutely brilliant, so you can see
Speaker 2: it on stage. It's just you know, you can watch
Speaker 2: it on your couch with a glass of Jans or
Speaker 2: a bottle, and you can watch it as many.
Speaker 1: Dives as you will, whatever the heck you want. I
Speaker 1: got this one from Lane girl. When will we see Powdry?
Speaker 2: Sammy? This is what I keep asking you. I keep saying,
Speaker 2: can we record it mine? And then you go and
Speaker 2: quote unquote hurt your back, So we.
Speaker 4: Have to.
Speaker 1: Now we will. We need to record with Powdry because
Speaker 1: Poudrey will be all over the I imagine she did,
Speaker 1: like walk all over it's during the Yes, she will
Speaker 1: during the episode, and it's going to be amazing because
Speaker 1: Pody is fantastical.
Speaker 2: It can't bring her here because digs will try to
Speaker 2: eat her.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but he's got siga sauce, so it's pretty
Speaker 1: interested in siga saus we've got Now that you're ready
Speaker 1: for goddamn speak pupe.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love them.
Speaker 1: Are you actually ready for it?
Speaker 2: I think so?
Speaker 6: Okay, Hi guys, this is Sarah. I am chiming in
Speaker 6: because I just listened to your Kim Wall episode and
Speaker 6: I was so excited to share my own Real Housewives
Speaker 6: of Melbourne story. A few years ago, I was stating
Speaker 6: a guy who was at the Australian Open in Melbourne.
Speaker 6: I live in Brisbane. It's like a Saturday night. He's
Speaker 6: kind of tipsy. I think I was out. I was
Speaker 6: kind of tipsy.
Speaker 1: He called me.
Speaker 6: And he was like, Sarah, Sarah, I have the most
Speaker 6: amazing thing for you. I want to put someone on
Speaker 6: the phone. It's a celebrity. I was super excited. I
Speaker 6: thought it was going to be huge. I thought it
Speaker 6: was going to be a donner, but he was actually better.
Speaker 6: He then puts Pettiflir on is tipsy as hell. My
Speaker 6: friend's phone was really shitty, so the reception was really bad.
Speaker 6: I don't know if you guys remember, but on the show,
Speaker 6: Pettiflir wrote a books the bitch.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of tipsy.
Speaker 6: I'm really excited, but like getting frustrated because I can't
Speaker 6: hear her properly, says Verbatim. Girl, you gotta squitch the bit.
Speaker 6: Still love telling that story. I think it's the best
Speaker 6: celebrity interaction. I just wanted to share it with you
Speaker 6: guys because I knew you would appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Sarah. We appreciate that so much. I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that wasn't Madonna, how boring with that story of
Speaker 2: being is a queen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she is so Swish the Bish, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and swished the Bish. She wrote this book and it
Speaker 1: was more of a pamphlet really, which called it. She
Speaker 1: had like a full book launch for it, of course,
Speaker 1: and she had to explain what it meant, like what
Speaker 1: swished the bish man? I think it was swish, maybe
Speaker 1: it was switch anyway, but she kept saying swish, You're
Speaker 1: gonna swish the bish and and anyway, she had to
Speaker 1: explain what it meant over and over again. It didn't
Speaker 1: make sense anytime. It was like, you know, when you're
Speaker 1: not the bish and then you gotta swish it, that
Speaker 1: swish the bitch, and it just it just kept going
Speaker 1: over and over again. And I'm really not sure Sarah
Speaker 1: what it means. Still. I want you to leave another
Speaker 1: speak pipe voicemail if you know what Swished the Bish
Speaker 1: is about. I want to get a copy. I don't
Speaker 1: know if there are copies available anymore. It was a
Speaker 1: green stuff as I remember. Yeah, we need to get
Speaker 1: Pettiflir on the podcast because maybe she might be the
Speaker 1: only person that can tell us what swish.
Speaker 2: The Bee is all about we need Pettyflir on the podcast.
Speaker 1: I know, but I don't believe that she would know
Speaker 1: what the book's about either, and.
Speaker 2: That is why we need to ask her.
Speaker 1: It was such a funny season because every single time
Speaker 1: she tried to explain that, we just kept saying it
Speaker 1: was different every time. I think the explanation was different
Speaker 1: every time. I don't think she really had a firm
Speaker 1: grasp on what Swished the bish was all about.
Speaker 2: Now, Sarah, if you I mean, did you said you
Speaker 2: were seeing a guy at the time. I assume that
Speaker 2: means you're not anymore, and I hope there were no
Speaker 2: issues with that, But I have issue with you not
Speaker 2: seeing someone who would think of you the moment they
Speaker 2: say Petty Flir, I think that's a green flag.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah. We have another one from Sarah.
Speaker 7: Good morning, Georgia and Sammy. It is Sarah speaking here,
Speaker 7: one time fan of your podcast, not of kind podcasts
Speaker 7: in general. This is my first rodeo. I must say
Speaker 7: it's really weird recommending you to friends where I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 7: there's this awesome podcast. It's about true crime and it
Speaker 7: makes me giggle all day long, and it's really gruesome
Speaker 7: and actually the stories are horrendous, hard one to explain,
Speaker 7: so absolutely love it. I just listened to your story,
Speaker 7: Sammy and Georgia about running into Petiflur at the book Mormon.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 7: I thought it was hilarious because I had the exact
Speaker 7: same moment you had, Sammy, but with you when I
Speaker 7: ran into you and Georgia for the moment I was,
Speaker 7: I was like, Sammy, Sammy, Hi, I'm Sarah.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: I love your podcast and I just love.
Speaker 7: That episode where all the people in the village in
Speaker 7: America shut down that guy in that car and you
Speaker 7: were just thinking or acting like it was completely normal.
Speaker 7: It is that type of yeah, conversation with someone a
Speaker 7: stranger on the street. Anyway, look forward to seeing you
Speaker 7: at a gig sometime soon. I need to prioritize that, Sammy.
Speaker 8: The great work.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 2: I love the Pods. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: Sarah, love you.
Speaker 2: It sounds like we didn't actually see the show. We
Speaker 2: just were running into And that was in the same
Speaker 2: interval Sarah, when I said we have to go outside
Speaker 2: and see a friend. That's when the second we walked
Speaker 2: outside is when Petty Flue walked towards Sammy and he's
Speaker 2: jo hit the floor. Thank you for writing in Sarah
Speaker 2: You're the best. I know you listen to my podcast.
Speaker 2: Everyone has an ex as well, so thank you.
Speaker 1: For supporting Sarah's the Best. It was so nice. We're
Speaker 1: in line to go and get another drink and classic
Speaker 1: and Sarah called out to me then, and it was
Speaker 1: so nice to get to meet her. I also loved
Speaker 1: that that was the exact moment when Petty Flir.
Speaker 2: Walked in and there were two Sarah's who left speak
Speaker 2: ups about the petty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one comes from J.
Speaker 5: Hello, Sammy and Georgia.
Speaker 4: Just a quick message to say thank you for this
Speaker 4: wonderful podcast. I actually normally hate true crime because it
Speaker 4: really bombs me out. But Sammy, I've been following you
Speaker 4: for years and I will listen to anything you do
Speaker 4: and even brought me around to true crime.
Speaker 1: So thank you for that.
Speaker 4: I just wanted to say that whenever you call Georgia
Speaker 4: g love, I just picked you sitting next to a
Speaker 4: gigantic glove. Anyway, I actually grew up in a house
Speaker 4: where someone was murdered. My parents bought a very beautiful
Speaker 4: old nineteen twenties house for unbelievably cheap had been strangled
Speaker 4: with an exercise rope in there the year prior. So
Speaker 4: still I have somewhat of a personal connection to truth anyway,
Speaker 4: But that's actually not the case that I had to
Speaker 4: suggest that maybe you'd be interested in covering the murder
Speaker 4: of Leelee in Stockton up in Newcastle, in somewh super
Speaker 4: sad murder from the eighties. And I think it's kind
Speaker 4: of like the first time we really discussed like a
Speaker 4: victim blaming in Australia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I feel like that.
Speaker 1: Would be a cool one.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's not cool, but a good one to do anyway,
Speaker 4: Thanks so much again, and I hope.
Speaker 1: You have a wonderful day. How about Jack, Thank you
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: That's about the third person in like the last couple
Speaker 2: of months that suggested that one.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that one. That'd
Speaker 1: be a great one to do. Thank you, Jay, We
Speaker 1: bloody love you. Thank you for all the support as well.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I hope that other people are picturing me like you
Speaker 2: mean a glove, like a winter glove or like a
Speaker 2: basketball basketball. No, I'm a real baseball glove.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of think a mantle where I've got
Speaker 1: this big glove just sitting there. What kind of love?
Speaker 1: I think it's a baseball glove in my mind.
Speaker 2: It's really cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really yeah. We would love to know what
Speaker 1: sort of glove you're thinking.
Speaker 2: What a great shout out.
Speaker 1: This one comes from Grace.
Speaker 2: I love that name.
Speaker 9: Hello, Georgia and Sammy. I just wanted to send you
Speaker 9: in a little speak pipe just to say how much
Speaker 9: I love YouTube.
Speaker 1: This podcast is iconic.
Speaker 9: I found you guys pretty late to the game, so
Speaker 9: my apologies, but it was around the time the Alissa
Speaker 9: lam case came out, and I have been listening ever since.
Speaker 9: I've almost caught up on.
Speaker 1: Every single episode.
Speaker 2: Today. I was actually.
Speaker 9: Listening to the Macis Monopoly fraud case, so pretty early on,
Speaker 9: I feel, and honestly some of the best work.
Speaker 1: It was so funny.
Speaker 9: I was tackling the entire time.
Speaker 2: The banter was so good.
Speaker 9: I mean, the band is good all the time, but
Speaker 9: it was just extra funny.
Speaker 1: I think so yeah.
Speaker 7: Also, Georgia, in one of.
Speaker 9: Your episodes, you asked, what is the name of your pet?
Speaker 9: Although my pet's names are not as good as Poudry,
Speaker 9: Hepburn and Missy Diggins. But I do have a Summer
Speaker 9: Lane and an Oakley May which few names I think
Speaker 9: definitely not as good as Audrey and miss Diggins. Yes,
Speaker 9: and a case I would love to hear is the
Speaker 9: William Tyrell case. I think it's been mentioned a few
Speaker 9: times it has, but never have.
Speaker 1: I heard all the details. Well, as much as we have,
Speaker 1: I think would be such a good case. Anyways, Love
Speaker 1: you guys.
Speaker 2: Bye, oh bye, thank you Grace. Yeah, we've been asked
Speaker 2: about that one too. A lot of people asking for
Speaker 2: Ozzie ones. Yeah, yeah, some more Aussie ones coming up.
Speaker 1: William Tyrell would be uh, you know, it's such a
Speaker 1: big story still.
Speaker 2: Unsolved, but it's such a big story in Australia, particularly.
Speaker 1: A little Spider Man costume. So it's a beautiful, beautiful
Speaker 1: kid that yeah, well we won't go into it, but
Speaker 1: it is it is. That would be an interesting story
Speaker 1: to do and a big one to cover as well.
Speaker 1: Let's do one more speak part just because I don't
Speaker 1: speak parts. This one comes from someone we've heard from before.
Speaker 5: You're already for this, Yeah, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. It's
Speaker 5: Ria from Glasgow in Scotland. Just leaving you a wee
Speaker 5: voice note to say hello and to say how much
Speaker 5: I enjoyed your stand up special Sammy.
Speaker 1: I thought it was wonderful. I laughed, I.
Speaker 5: Cried, I just really really enjoyed it. And yeah, all
Speaker 5: the best to you for the next few months of
Speaker 5: doing regular stand up. That's so exciting, and yeah, I
Speaker 5: hope you love it and you you get everything that
Speaker 5: you want from it. I also wanted to mention the
Speaker 5: Lucy let Be episode. I thought you did a fantastic
Speaker 5: job in the UK. It's been obviously very highly publicized
Speaker 5: and it's in the news pretty much constantly, so I
Speaker 5: quite liked the approach from a fresh pair of eyes.
Speaker 1: I thought that was a, you.
Speaker 5: Know, a novel way of doing it.
Speaker 8: Is most people in the UK know a little bit
Speaker 8: about the backstory and have made up their own opinions,
Speaker 8: so it was refreshing to have somebody have a take
Speaker 8: that was completely fresh. So yeah, and you did a
Speaker 8: fantastic job despite.
Speaker 2: How horrific the actual story is.
Speaker 8: So yeah, well done on that.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I just wanted to check in, and yeah,
Speaker 5: I give give a big cuddle for me. I love that,
Speaker 5: big boy, And.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you take care and enjoy the rest of your days.
Speaker 6: Bye guys.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, thank you.
Speaker 1: We're such a big fan of you. By the way,
Speaker 1: I love the voice so much. Anytime you call in
Speaker 1: any any message, I love you it so much. It's
Speaker 1: so fantastic.
Speaker 2: I thought you were going to give us the correct
Speaker 2: pronounce because Sammy said that Ricky Moore episode and he
Speaker 2: said in the Scottish people, can you tell us how
Speaker 2: to pronounce? I haven't heard it from actually saw she
Speaker 2: made on the weekend. Yeah, she didn't tell me how
Speaker 2: to forgot to ask to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, please do call in if you know how
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 2: I think it's like that, that's exactly.
Speaker 1: Do you think? So do you actually mean that when
Speaker 1: you say that? Yes, thank you everyone for writing in.
Speaker 1: We bloody love to hear from you. All you have
Speaker 1: to do is what you.
Speaker 2: Love door repeat before you get to turn off, because
Speaker 2: people will go, oh, they're they're wrapping up now, So
Speaker 2: I'll do it. I'll show off.
Speaker 1: Show off, show off people. Do you're curious because you're looking.
Speaker 2: After just recognize ever looking for a.
Speaker 1: Okay, whyn't you tell me about this then?
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, I've already done those two. Well, I'm here.
Speaker 2: It's just good to get some admin done. Lines on
Speaker 2: the pod.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is good.
Speaker 2: I've got to want to go. Clothing labels that are
Speaker 2: scratchy as furk. Yes, your clothing brand, you're about making
Speaker 2: things that people will all day. Don't put the label
Speaker 2: in a place that's going to be scratchy, or don't
Speaker 2: you use it with like don't don't sew it on
Speaker 2: with scratchy things because I hate it because then you
Speaker 2: have to cut it off and then you risk like
Speaker 2: cutting a hole in the garment. Yeah, cut it off,
Speaker 2: which means it doesn't have the care labels on it anymore.
Speaker 2: It's just knowing I hate scratchy clothing labels.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say wearing new goddamn shoes is mine
Speaker 1: at the moment when you have to wear them.
Speaker 2: In okay, very more.
Speaker 1: I hurt my back. I was dealing with the goddamn
Speaker 1: sore feet. That's what I'm dealing with at the moment.
Speaker 1: And before my back, you've.
Speaker 2: Probably been holding your back wrong because you've been your feet.
Speaker 1: Maybe that could did you get I've got some lovely
Speaker 1: new country road boots and it was very very very
Speaker 1: small for a couple of days walk in the city
Speaker 1: wearing those in so I feel like you know, I was,
Speaker 1: I was dancing, I was singing, I was having just
Speaker 1: the best time because I felt so proud. He's wonderful
Speaker 1: in my new boots.
Speaker 2: And you looked proud and wonderful. I have the third
Speaker 2: life hack for this episode. I know it's going to
Speaker 2: come around to three. When you get new leather shoes,
Speaker 2: in particular, you need to wear in y. You put
Speaker 2: a heap of newspaper scrunched up in them and then
Speaker 2: leave them like that for a long time because then
Speaker 2: that kind of stretches them a bit before your feet
Speaker 2: have to do it.
Speaker 1: That's a good life hat.
Speaker 2: And I will say, when you said wearing new shoes,
Speaker 2: I was like, whoa, No, take that back, because I
Speaker 2: think new runners are like the comfiest things in the
Speaker 2: whole world.
Speaker 1: Oh they are, but yeah, gorgeous boots. Gorgeous boots that
Speaker 1: everyone goes, hey, just quite beauty.
Speaker 2: Shine them.
Speaker 1: I did shine them, and I get them shined every
Speaker 1: day by Diggs's licks. I want to say real quick
Speaker 1: that there is a little connection to what I'm about
Speaker 1: to say. Thank you, Oliver Clark for doing the music.
Speaker 1: I had a drink with Oliver Clark on the weekend
Speaker 1: in between one of my gish and can I just
Speaker 1: say he is the best goddamn guy. I know we've
Speaker 1: been friends for so long, but I just want to
Speaker 1: shout him out.
Speaker 3: I also want to shout out a company in Bayswater
Speaker 3: g Love because let me tell you this, my little
Speaker 3: noll No no, this is not spon con.
Speaker 1: My little you know, my clicker for my garage. So
Speaker 1: you know, why don't we do a podry peeve. I
Speaker 1: want to do a dooting digs or something about this.
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Because I had a little garage key and I was like, shit,
Speaker 1: it doesn't work anymore. I'm going to have to go in.
Speaker 1: I changed the batteries. It wasn't working or anything. I
Speaker 1: called the guy who was just the number on the back.
Speaker 1: I called him and he goes, oh, yeah, all it
Speaker 1: is is it's a number on the back, and so
Speaker 1: all you have to do is something that's misplaced, and
Speaker 1: all you have to do is change this little number
Speaker 1: and it'll work perfectly for you. And it did. And
Speaker 1: it could have cost me a lot of money to
Speaker 1: go in and do that. And he was just the
Speaker 1: loveliest guy on the phone that just told me the
Speaker 1: right code that it had to be and a dumb
Speaker 1: boy like me. That's a good friend of mine you're
Speaker 1: talking about. But I was like, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: he made everything easier and it was just really nice.
Speaker 1: That's my name. His name was Carl.
Speaker 2: Have you made that up? We still a big pause
Speaker 2: before you said that.
Speaker 1: No, it was Carl, and he was a really really
Speaker 1: nice guy. So thank you Carl for actually not charging
Speaker 1: me and just being a great guy. Because it says
Speaker 1: book a technician and I was a million but he
Speaker 1: just did it on the phone for free.
Speaker 2: Well done, Carl. That's good doting digs for it.
Speaker 1: Isn't that nice? Hey? G love? Can people follow.
Speaker 2: Us Instagram and TikTok and not another crime podcast? You
Speaker 2: can watch us on YouTube you just search none of
Speaker 2: the Crime Buster as well. You can email us at
Speaker 2: Samia just another company dot com dot au can send
Speaker 2: us a voice note. The website is called speak Pipe.
Speaker 2: The link is in our show notes. You can use
Speaker 2: Lewis's Excel spreadsheet to find other places you can watch
Speaker 2: and hear about the stories we've done. On our Instagram
Speaker 2: page as well, and that's all A good night.
Speaker 1: You did a really good job there, sweet girl on
Speaker 1: your girlfriend. We've only a one more thing to say, everybody.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 2: Ready three two TikTok book talk stuff. We didn't even
Speaker 2: talk about books this episode.
Speaker 1: Don't need to. Fantastic catch Froze