WEBVTT - Shannon Matthews

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<v Speaker 1>Nine months after the disappearance of Madeline McCann, another girl

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<v Speaker 1>went missing. A frantic mother banged on the doors of

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<v Speaker 1>each house trying to find out where her daughter was.

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<v Speaker 1>She had snapped at her daughter that morning and told

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<v Speaker 1>her not to come back, and this time she didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>It appeared this mother's worst nightmares were now coming true

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<v Speaker 1>and this young girl would never return home. This is

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<v Speaker 1>one of the largest police hunts in Yorkshire history since

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<v Speaker 1>they were on the hunt for Peter Sutcliffe. This g

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<v Speaker 1>is a disappearance of Shannon Matthews.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't think I know this one.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's fascinating, ring Ring buckel In.

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<v Speaker 2>Whoa, Okay, he's gone with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, there, everybody, welcome to not another crime.

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<v Speaker 2>Made me jump. But I'm Georgia La, I'm a journalist.

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<v Speaker 1>I am not. But I'll tell you what if you

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<v Speaker 1>want to jump yourself, well and just listen to the story,

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<v Speaker 1>you could do that. The time code is in the

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<v Speaker 1>show notes. Thank you for saying that. I'm also on

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<v Speaker 1>a segway riding around the apartment as I do this,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's a silent segway, so you wouldn't even know.

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<v Speaker 2>I told you the story about when I saw a

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<v Speaker 2>group of Segway tourists in Rome and I was.

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<v Speaker 1>Laughing at the places went in Oh god, he's is

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<v Speaker 1>it in the episode.

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<v Speaker 2>There Go down Hill?

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<v Speaker 1>Did everybody?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I was sitting at a restaurant. There was like

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<v Speaker 2>a group of tourists doing like a Segway tour and

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<v Speaker 2>I was like laughing and not like pointing at them,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of laughing about it and looking at them being like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh my god, it's most embarrassing way to tourist city.

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<v Speaker 2>And then one of them like clocked eyes with me

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<v Speaker 2>and start riding directly towards me. I was like, so

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<v Speaker 2>I just did like I looked, I didn't didn't look,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I had Georgia.

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<v Speaker 1>I looked up.

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<v Speaker 3>I was a girling Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was like, Hey, that's a cool motive transport.

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<v Speaker 1>That is very cool that I want to do that myself.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm walking in the opposite direction as I talked to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So that is my life lesson to you guys,

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<v Speaker 2>not to point and laugh at people because it's a

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<v Speaker 2>mean thing to do and they might know that is.

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<v Speaker 1>A good life hack. How are you this week? Laugh?

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<v Speaker 2>You know what? Fine?

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<v Speaker 1>You went to a good You went to Tasmania again.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to sound like we're repeating the episodes. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because I'm always in free times now three times this year,

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<v Speaker 2>once for a wine festival in Lonnie, once for a

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<v Speaker 2>wine festival in Hobart, and this time for the first

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<v Speaker 2>since my mom's fiftieth birthday party I've been invited to.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's my first fiftieth. It's not a family one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, or your right? How was it? How was it?

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have a dance?

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<v Speaker 2>I had a dance? So it was yeah, friend of

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<v Speaker 2>mine who married couple who live in lawn Ssteon, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know them from when I was working down there.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was like on a big property and they

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<v Speaker 2>had like a marquee set up with a dance floor

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<v Speaker 2>and like stern lining and stuff. And it was cocktail,

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<v Speaker 2>which I dressed in and most people didn't Blumston's lots

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<v Speaker 2>of whiskey sour or no, yeah, that's a different that's

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<v Speaker 2>cocktail dressed up.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, gotta got it. I don't get invited to anything.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a Shetland pony on the property, like in defense,

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<v Speaker 2>like digs more than digs, And when all the fifty

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<v Speaker 2>year old's got really drunk. Someone said, oh, get Pedro,

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<v Speaker 2>get Pedro, and who's Pedro? They brought Pedro Presca. That's

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<v Speaker 2>Pedro was a Shetland pony and they brought him onto

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<v Speaker 2>the dance floor. He dance, he didn't dance.

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<v Speaker 1>He didn't like because they're lazy. I've always said that

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<v Speaker 1>about SHETLMONI lazy can he digs eight notes? Shetlamponi. He's

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<v Speaker 1>a real full horse.

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<v Speaker 2>The most oppressing part about this party is that I

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<v Speaker 2>did the news story when you know every year there's

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<v Speaker 2>a story on the news the night before, like the

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<v Speaker 2>first day of school about like prep. He's getting excited

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<v Speaker 2>to go to school.

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<v Speaker 1>Back to school, sale exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Prep for anyone out of Melbourne, well in different states

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<v Speaker 2>and overseas, Preppy is our first year of schooling. So

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<v Speaker 2>I had done a story at their house because they

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<v Speaker 2>have twins, so it was like, oh, these twins are

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<v Speaker 2>getting ready to go to school, blub blah blah. And

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<v Speaker 2>those twins were at the party drinking alcohol as their

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<v Speaker 2>grown ass adults. Now so I've started taking metamusal.

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<v Speaker 1>He's going pretty well then.

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<v Speaker 2>Walking more carefully, so I don't have a fool apart

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<v Speaker 2>from feeling old, I am much more agile than you,

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<v Speaker 2>despite you being three years younger than me. Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because you've done your goddamn back in.

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<v Speaker 1>I have done my back in and it is so

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<v Speaker 1>pain fall And when you do your back, you just

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<v Speaker 1>can't really do anything else Like that was You're going

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<v Speaker 1>to keep moving though, that's the most painful thing. And

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<v Speaker 1>digs digs. He's going to show you another toy as

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<v Speaker 1>well before you sheep. Yeah, he's really cool guy. I

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<v Speaker 1>love love my back. I've always been really touched to it,

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<v Speaker 1>and it actually attaches most of my things together.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, oh, that's really bad for it, really bad

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<v Speaker 2>for it. Yeah, I don't care about mine so much,

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<v Speaker 2>and I couldn't. I just use it for lying down

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<v Speaker 2>on yeah, speaking of England, and I couldn't. I saw

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<v Speaker 2>a condom rappot on the ground today. My friend and

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<v Speaker 2>I giggled a lot about it, and I just feel

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<v Speaker 2>it's six.

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<v Speaker 1>You've bit sexy talking about meta mucil and stuff. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>not slipping in the shower.

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<v Speaker 4>But.

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<v Speaker 1>Come on now. Yeah. So I just woke up cracked

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<v Speaker 1>my back. I heard it. Oh yeah, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>just in so much pain I broke my leg like

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<v Speaker 1>a few years ago and was in a moon boot

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<v Speaker 1>for like twelve weeks. And this time I had to

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<v Speaker 1>get up and I had to walk Digs. Then as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as like picking up for Digs after like going

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<v Speaker 1>for walks and everything, I was on my knees. It

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<v Speaker 1>started raining. I was picking up Digs's dog Boo in

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<v Speaker 1>the rainfent no, and people were walking past me. It

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<v Speaker 1>was like the saddest sight in the world, like me

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<v Speaker 1>just doing that and then just still looking after Digs,

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<v Speaker 1>like he pulls sometimes on the lead. That's a bit sore.

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<v Speaker 1>It takes about twenty minutes to put my socks on

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<v Speaker 1>and shoes on. It Like, it's just a really really

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<v Speaker 1>painful back injury. So it's it's been a rough time.

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<v Speaker 1>I've had this for two days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And when it happened, you had to go into

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<v Speaker 2>the office despite being.

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<v Speaker 1>That much pain.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said to you, I finished work at one

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<v Speaker 2>pm today. You didn't need me to go and walk Digs,

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<v Speaker 2>so you don't have to do it when you get home.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, he said that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd actually really helpful. Yeah, And do you want to

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<v Speaker 2>tell the listeners what I walked into because I might

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<v Speaker 2>gag again. I will.

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<v Speaker 1>You messaged me and said Diggs is thrown up and

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<v Speaker 1>he's done a lot of poo on the balcony. It

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<v Speaker 1>was not pooh yeah, bumwees. And so Diggs had dog gastro.

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<v Speaker 1>So then Diggs has had dog gastro and so they're not.

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<v Speaker 1>I had about back, so i'd take Digs to the vet. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>that was very expensive.

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<v Speaker 2>I cleaned the balcony. How are we not learning to

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<v Speaker 2>turn your phone in silent? That's it?

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's it's a Sydney number. I'm not gonna answer that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's probably uber. We ordered dinner.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, no, it's not I ordered dinner.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, who's calling you from Sydney? There? Do you want

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<v Speaker 2>to tell us about your girl? Stop tell us about

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<v Speaker 2>your girl.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to cut out when you're making fun of me.

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<v Speaker 2>You're being really grumpy. It says if you're in pain

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<v Speaker 2>or something, and I need you to get over it.

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<v Speaker 2>I washed the balcony where Diggs had done his diarrheam,

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<v Speaker 2>yes you did, yes, And I'm like, I'm not a

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<v Speaker 2>gaggy person. Everything I say sounds dirty. Now do you

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<v Speaker 2>are you? Is it just me?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just sexy today, I'm in pain.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I'm not someone who, like you know, I'm fine

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<v Speaker 2>with blood and I don't gain smells or anything. But

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<v Speaker 2>I literally had to catch from it in my mouth

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<v Speaker 2>because of the smell of it. It was sohiginous.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but I cleaned.

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<v Speaker 2>The whole balcony off, and then just as I was

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<v Speaker 2>about to leave, I was like, what's he doing on

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<v Speaker 2>the balcony. He's doing a funny thing where he's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of squatting and walking around. Oh, he's doing more.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry about that. He was. He was so excited.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you ask him to do it?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, what.

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<v Speaker 1>Practical joke.

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<v Speaker 2>To diarrhy when around?

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<v Speaker 1>And then when Georgia comes around when I'm around, that's awful.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it was horrible. I thought he was dumb.

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<v Speaker 1>He's so well, so well trained. The horrible thing about

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<v Speaker 1>it was like put him in the car. He looked

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<v Speaker 1>real sad, and then we got to the vet, but

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<v Speaker 1>he was but then he was very excited to be

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<v Speaker 1>in the vets and just chatting to the vet, get

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<v Speaker 1>to know the vet. And then they gave me this

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<v Speaker 1>medication and he had a little ja as well. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I had to drop him off and then I

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<v Speaker 1>went to the physio. Didn't take Digs to the physio.

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<v Speaker 1>I went to the physio. It was a very expensive

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<v Speaker 1>mud bass. It was a very expensive day. But look,

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<v Speaker 1>we're both in recovery. At the moment, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be okay. I think Diggs Digs is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>just fine after a while, He's going to be just fine.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not so sure about me at the moment, but

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<v Speaker 1>I think I will be one day just fine. But

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<v Speaker 1>when you're sleeping and you move at all and the

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<v Speaker 1>pain is just excruciating, Like I couldn't even like even

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<v Speaker 1>like rolling over to try and get comfortable. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like everything was just painful. So it was a full

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<v Speaker 1>day of that. And the physio really gave me one

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<v Speaker 1>of those massages that they really pinpoint where it hurts.

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<v Speaker 2>Pin you down.

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<v Speaker 1>No, they didn't put me down, but they really hurt

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<v Speaker 1>me as well. So that was it was just a

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<v Speaker 1>fun day really around.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I'm really sorry that's happened to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was a bad time, but hey, I'm back.

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<v Speaker 2>If I had a dog that did hainous diaryel all

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<v Speaker 2>over the balcony and I wanted an excuse not to

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<v Speaker 2>clean it, up. I would have pretended to put my

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<v Speaker 2>back out, nusts my best friend to come around and

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<v Speaker 2>clean it up as well. Really, second life hack I'm

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<v Speaker 2>delivering to the listeners today.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, yeah, right, that's pretty cool. Actually it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very good life hack.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, but before that, you had a massive weekend of gigs.

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<v Speaker 1>Had a massive weekend of gigs. I did six MC

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<v Speaker 1>spot Wow, which means basically two hours of MCing for

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<v Speaker 1>every show, which is a lot. Yeah, so the shows

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<v Speaker 1>go for two hours and you have to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>just be there the whole time, be alert, be ready,

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<v Speaker 1>and yeah it was. It was a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But I did do my back on the Sunday morning,

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<v Speaker 1>which meant I had one more MC gig to do

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<v Speaker 1>when I was in a lot of pain. But my

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<v Speaker 1>friend Grant came up. But he walked digs with me

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<v Speaker 1>like it was really nice, Like he came to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of look after digs and stuff with me, really nice.

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<v Speaker 1>An't even needed anything, Like he came around then came

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<v Speaker 1>to the show with me, which was lots of fun

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<v Speaker 1>and we're like walking around having the best time of

0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.160
<v Speaker 1>our lives. I was hobbling, but he carried stuff for

0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.480
<v Speaker 1>me made your open doors for me. Major he wanted

0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:05.199
<v Speaker 1>to carry.

0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Diggs, buts is bigger than grand.

0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know, yeah, actually a lot bigger than him.

0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.800
<v Speaker 1>And Diggs was like and it jumps up and everything,

0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.480
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, oh no, this is not gonna end. Well.

0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.200
<v Speaker 2>So it's just you know what, it's a good happy

0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:21.480
<v Speaker 2>vibe in here today, happy vibe feeling you're feeling decrepit.

0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.440
<v Speaker 2>And Diggs is just shitting, just shitting, and Pierson but

0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:26.000
<v Speaker 2>he looks good.

0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Look at him now, he's so much more sprightly than

0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.680
<v Speaker 1>he was yesterday. I think he's actually doing a great jow.

0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Now Broughturus to Yes. I was paying an attention to

0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:35.120
<v Speaker 2>sheep No.

0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.720
<v Speaker 1>But before we get into the episode today, I thought

0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.439
<v Speaker 1>that I would share something from a listener Lewis today.

0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 1>This is from Lewis, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. I got

0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.840
<v Speaker 1>my wife to be into your podcast that when we

0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:52.720
<v Speaker 1>bought our house late last year, Oh congratulations, and she

0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.600
<v Speaker 1>was listening to it a lot where we were doing renovations,

0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.079
<v Speaker 1>and now she's listened to every single episode and loves it.

0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.160
<v Speaker 1>She said to me that she wished there was a

0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.760
<v Speaker 1>list of movie slash documentaries that related to each of

0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.400
<v Speaker 1>your episodes. So as a birthday slash Valentine's Day gift,

0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.440
<v Speaker 1>I put together a spreadsheet for her with links too.

0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 1>What It's a public spreadsheet, so if you guys feel

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.960
<v Speaker 1>like sharing it, go ahead.

0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:21.319
<v Speaker 2>Lewis has made a spreadsheet of our episodes and related.

0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, oh my god. It's the best. And so I

0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.160
<v Speaker 1>put that on our Instagram in our bio the links there,

0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.120
<v Speaker 1>so if you go, oh my god, I wish there

0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.240
<v Speaker 1>were some more links or you know, just more information

0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.920
<v Speaker 1>about what I could watch that relates to this episode,

0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Lewis has done the work for you.

0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Louis your incredible.

0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 1>That great. So he's gone back and done all of them,

0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:42.480
<v Speaker 1>every single episode. He started right from the start and

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>he's done every single episode.

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:49.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, yeah, Louis, that is like incredibly heartwarming

0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 2>for us to we forget that. People listen, we just

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.360
<v Speaker 2>bang on about our poohs and weeze.

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 1>And backs and that's right, pews and weeds and backs.

0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:58.559
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, thank you Lewis. We'll love to have Lewis

0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.200
<v Speaker 1>on to talk about the spreadsheets. Yeah, I want too.

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Amazing that really, I just I can't believe people like

0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:07.440
<v Speaker 2>us it's so nice.

0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.280
<v Speaker 1>And that lovely. But yeah, so if you want to

0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.760
<v Speaker 1>look at it. Can people follow us do you love? Yes?

0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.080
<v Speaker 2>On Instagram and TikTok at not Another Crime Podcast. They

0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.480
<v Speaker 2>can also watch full episodes on YouTube the same thing.

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>They can even write to us ourselves. They could send

0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.319
<v Speaker 2>us their spreadsheets. Yeah, to Sammy at just Another company

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:26.240
<v Speaker 2>dot com dot au.

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:27.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.960
<v Speaker 2>And they must leave us a five star review. And

0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 2>they must leave us a five star rating.

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, And if you look on the Instagram you'll

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.600
<v Speaker 1>see a little link there now in the bio that

0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>has that very spreadsheet. Also, I want to say this

0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.320
<v Speaker 1>as well. Watch us on YouTube dot com if you

0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:48.199
<v Speaker 1>want to. If you feel so inclined, you can watch

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>this video up there right now.

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>You can watch Digs bring me all the different toys.

0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 1>He's yes, he's shop.

0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Despite having entire apartment to walk around, he loves to

0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.640
<v Speaker 2>sit as close to one or both of us as

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:01.640
<v Speaker 2>he or dogge possible.

0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:03.880
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Hey, you ready for this week's episode?

0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really am.

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:14.080
<v Speaker 1>According to UK data, the more time that passes, it

0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 1>becomes less and less likely that a missing child will

0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:22.320
<v Speaker 1>be found alive after twelve hours ninety six percent of

0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>missing children are sadly found dead. Ninety six That was awful.

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.760
<v Speaker 1>After three days, one hundred percent of missing children are

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.960
<v Speaker 1>found dead. No, yeah, in.

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 2>The UK again, in the UK. Yeah, we're talking the

0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.080
<v Speaker 2>other week about Elizabeth.

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Smart Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now in the introduction I referred

0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.600
<v Speaker 1>to Peter Sutcliffe. Now do you know who Peter Cuckcliffe is. Yeah.

0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Peter Sutcliffe, later dubbed the Yorkshire Ripper, was a British

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:57.080
<v Speaker 1>serial killer who operated in northern England during the nineteen seventies.

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>His crimes created a widespread fear across country and triggered

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>one of the largest manhunts in UK history.

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Was he the most prolific serial killer? Or was it

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.440
<v Speaker 2>like the stout I've got in my head that he

0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>was the most something?

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Because yeah, I don't know if he was the most prolific,

0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, but at least the biggest man hunt. He

0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 1>appeared outwardly ordinary, a married lorry driver with no obvious

0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 1>public profile. Now a lorry driver for those who don't know,

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>he's a trust driver, Yeah, which made the investigation especially

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 1>difficult and prolonged. The case also became infamous for major

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>policing mistakes and public panic, and it significantly changed the

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 1>British police had a kind of handled serial offender investigations

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 1>and media communication. The case remains one of the most

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>notorious criminal investigations in modern British history.

0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Will we do the story on that one day?

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely not. Oh yeah, no we will.

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 2>We've got to hook him into stay for something.

0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:00.880
<v Speaker 1>For something, for something. You ain't got no house.

0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:02.800
<v Speaker 2>We'll do more episodes.

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.560
<v Speaker 1>Please listen now we need to start today's episode by

0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 1>talking about something quite hard to talk about, the class

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 1>system in the UK. I think in the UK the

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.240
<v Speaker 1>class system has always been something that is spoken about,

0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 1>where other countries like us in Australia, it is much

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>more unspoken, an unspoken class system that still very much

0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:24.320
<v Speaker 1>exists today.

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Of course.

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Madela McCann, who disappeared while on a holiday in Portugal

0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and seven, was widely presented as coming

0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:37.240
<v Speaker 1>from a respectable middle class professional family, media courage. Media

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.400
<v Speaker 1>coverage often emphasized her parents' status as doctors.

0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.800
<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, in my mind, I feel

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.840
<v Speaker 2>like I believe them to be more upper class.

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes they were. Yeah are The international search effort and

0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:53.479
<v Speaker 1>the idea of an innocent family struck by tragedy. In contrast,

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Shannon Matthews, who disappeared in West Yorkshire in two thousand

0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:01.479
<v Speaker 1>and eight, came from a working class counselor. State reporting

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>frequently highlighted her family's economic hardship, family structure, and links

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 1>to welfare, with some coverage reinforcing negative stereotypes about broken

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 1>or benefits dependent communities. Comparing the two cases highlights how

0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:24.720
<v Speaker 1>class shaped media tone, public sympathy, and assumptions about credibility, responsibility,

0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.360
<v Speaker 1>and victimhood.

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, even the fact that I just said, oh, I

0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 2>don't know this story yet. You say Madeline McCann and that's.

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.520
<v Speaker 1>Like exactly a huge story in the UK. But I

0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.359
<v Speaker 1>don't think it was like a Madeline McCain story. And

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.720
<v Speaker 1>we'll get into it later on. It raises public important

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 1>questions about whose stories are treated as tragedies and who's

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>a frame through suspicion and social judgment. The UK class

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 1>system is less official than it used to be. Nobody

0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:57.520
<v Speaker 1>is born with a legal rank anymore, but socially it

0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.240
<v Speaker 1>still exists in a very real way.

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, this is probably really naive, but people literally ranked.

0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, apparently it used to be like such a huge thing.

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:09.399
<v Speaker 1>I think kind of in the Thatcher days it was

0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.680
<v Speaker 1>a really big thing where you were you know, often

0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.720
<v Speaker 1>judged completely about your standing.

0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was more aware of the judgment, but I

0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.159
<v Speaker 2>thought it was kind of like I thought it was

0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 2>very unofficial.

0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, UK listeners, we'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:25.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I feel like it used to be

0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:30.239
<v Speaker 1>even bigger than it is today. And sorry it's not

0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:31.640
<v Speaker 1>spoken about so much as much.

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it would be. It would certainly be felt though,

0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.639
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of it I believe is is, or

0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.639
<v Speaker 2>has been, or was highlighted by different accents.

0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh yeah, absolutely.

0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.679
<v Speaker 2>An accent would kind of tell somebody what class in

0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:51.280
<v Speaker 2>inverted commas you're from, where you're from, and then that

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:52.880
<v Speaker 2>would be a judgment based on that.

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, people would.

0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Get elocution lessons. So someone I know it was born

0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 2>and raised in Scotland and when she moved out to Australia,

0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.919
<v Speaker 2>which is like a teenager or something in probably about

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the seventies, had elocution lessons to get rid of her

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.720
<v Speaker 2>accent entirely because so she wouldn't be judged on that.

0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Yeah, well, This is what's interesting that you

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:19.480
<v Speaker 1>raise this because it's not just about money. Yeah. The

0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.760
<v Speaker 1>class often has not a lot to do with money.

0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>It's actually about background, education, accent, manners, taste and expectations.

0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 1>In Britain, people often judge your class faster from how

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.119
<v Speaker 1>you speak than from what you earn.

0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.399
<v Speaker 2>How you speak or when you speak when akaa me

0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:41.199
<v Speaker 2>just saying what you had written in your script and

0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.159
<v Speaker 2>once again speaking before you could say you're written the script.

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Think of it as a cultural opening system you grow

0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:51.640
<v Speaker 1>up inside. So the upper class old money who they are.

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 1>They're often referred to as aristocrats, hereditary land owners, titled

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>family these dukes, earls, lords and families who have been

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.199
<v Speaker 1>wealthy for centuries. The key idea here is wealth is inherited,

0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:10.800
<v Speaker 1>not earned. Our work is optional for those people.

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.760
<v Speaker 2>With a life will a lifebirds be seated according.

0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 1>To class exactly. Yeah. And the markers here are private

0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 1>boarding schools, Oxbridge education country estates are not just big houses,

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>very neutral or posh accents understatement and emotional restraint and

0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.880
<v Speaker 1>connections actually matter more than cvs themselves. They often don't

0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 1>talk about money because they've never had to worry about it.

0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:36.199
<v Speaker 1>They don't need to.

0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:37.359
<v Speaker 2>They've just got it.

0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.320
<v Speaker 1>They just got it. Our status comes from lineage. A

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>billionaire who made money in tech is still socially new

0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:48.120
<v Speaker 1>money to them. The upper middle class, professional elite. Who

0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:52.520
<v Speaker 1>they are. They're doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures,

0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>highly educated professionals, doctors, barristers, academic senior executives, media figures.

0:20:58.000 --> 0:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>I don't why I say that again, but they usually

0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 1>earn huge salaries.

0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.840
<v Speaker 2>What I'm asking for a friend, a media figure who

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:07.120
<v Speaker 2>doesn't earn a huge weight.

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.800
<v Speaker 1>So we'll get into that and what really matters in education,

0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:15.200
<v Speaker 1>taste and networks. The markers of this is university is expected,

0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:20.760
<v Speaker 1>often prestigious. They read broadsheet newspapers, knows how to navigate

0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:25.440
<v Speaker 1>formal settings, comfortably comfortable discussing politics, art and literature. Whi's

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.119
<v Speaker 1>out feeling like they're overstepping their mark. Our children pushed

0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:34.960
<v Speaker 1>towards careers, not trades, educated accents, but softer than no aristocratic,

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:40.040
<v Speaker 1>carefully neutral. They plan financially but are rarely insecure about survival.

0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm picturing Jack Whitehall in this exactly.

0:21:42.720 --> 0:21:45.400
<v Speaker 1>I think he would be that. Yeah, the middle class

0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:50.159
<v Speaker 1>stability and aspiration. Who they are teachers, small business owners,

0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:54.399
<v Speaker 1>office workers, mid level managers, skilled professionals. The key idea

0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:59.280
<v Speaker 1>is security and improvement. This is the group most associated

0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:01.040
<v Speaker 1>with trying to do well in life.

0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:06.720
<v Speaker 2>Media, yes, media professional A lot of beautiful Oh okay, yes,

0:22:06.760 --> 0:22:07.040
<v Speaker 2>that is.

0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.960
<v Speaker 1>The marker is beautiful the market, there's a home. Ownership

0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:14.359
<v Speaker 1>is a major goal in life, education scene as a

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:19.120
<v Speaker 1>pathway to mobility. Are concerned about manners and respectability. Our

0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:23.360
<v Speaker 1>holidays abroad is an achievement, often slightly self conscious socially.

0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 1>The accent is regional, but moderated, often softened intentionally, but

0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 1>for them, budgeting matters. Lifestyle is planned around affordability. Then

0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>we have the working class, community and practicality, who are

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:44.800
<v Speaker 1>manual laborers, tradespeople, service workers, many retail and hospitality workers.

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 1>The key idea here is work is central to identity.

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Are there any songs you know about that class?

0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:55.399
<v Speaker 1>So? Historically yeah, historically the indust I know, Okay, we

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 1>can do it later. Historically, the industrial backbone of Britain

0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:03.160
<v Speaker 1>today includes skilled, well paid trades, so income does not

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:08.320
<v Speaker 1>necessarily equal lower class. A strong regional accent, usually direct

0:23:08.359 --> 0:23:12.800
<v Speaker 1>communication style type, family, community, networks, practical skills valued over

0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 1>academic ones, and suspicion of pretension. Money is for living,

0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:23.119
<v Speaker 1>not cultural signaling. Then we have the final one, the underclass.

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Who they are people in unstable employment, long term unemployment,

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 1>or generational poverty, lack of access to opportunity rather than

0:23:33.280 --> 0:23:37.400
<v Speaker 1>lifestyle choice. This is less a cultural class and more

0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:42.080
<v Speaker 1>an economic condition, but British media often treats it socially.

0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:47.959
<v Speaker 1>The most important part is accent. Income. In Britain, class

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:52.919
<v Speaker 1>is often detected in seconds. A plumber earning eighty thousand

0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 1>pounds with a strong regional accent will usually be perceived

0:23:56.560 --> 0:23:59.840
<v Speaker 1>as working class when they're not. A poorly paid me

0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 1>uzium curator with a posh accent may be perceived as

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:09.080
<v Speaker 1>upper middle class. So class is basically upbringing plus education

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 1>plus behavior plus taste, not just salary. And with all

0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:20.639
<v Speaker 1>this background information, let's get into today's story. This story

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:26.240
<v Speaker 1>takes place in Jewsbury, West Yorkshire. Yorkshire rises in the

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.760
<v Speaker 1>north of England like a kingdom unto itself, broad shouldered,

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:35.000
<v Speaker 1>weathered and quietly magnificent. It is a country shaped as

0:24:35.080 --> 0:24:41.679
<v Speaker 1>much by wind and heather as by history. Heather, come on, flowers,

0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:46.080
<v Speaker 1>come on, where stone villages are clinton valleys and church

0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:51.520
<v Speaker 1>towers punctuate horizons that seem to stretch without end. There

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.320
<v Speaker 1>is a steadiness to Yorkshire, a deep rooted sense of place,

0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:59.880
<v Speaker 1>born of ancient rock and enduring communities of farming, hand

0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:04.239
<v Speaker 1>and seafaring, heritage of market towns and mill chimneys that

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:09.879
<v Speaker 1>once powered the Industrial Revolution. The North York moors unfurl

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:14.440
<v Speaker 1>in sweeping expanses of heather, a rolling ocean of purple

0:25:14.480 --> 0:25:20.399
<v Speaker 1>in late summer, shifting under vast skies that dominate every view. Here.

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Land feels elemental, carved by time, scored by dry stone walls,

0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 1>and traced with winding paths that follow all drovers, roads

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:36.600
<v Speaker 1>and railway lines long since quieted. The air carries the

0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.760
<v Speaker 1>scent of peat and bracken peat.

0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:41.399
<v Speaker 2>The wind.

0:25:41.560 --> 0:25:45.920
<v Speaker 1>The wind moves unhindered across ridges and through wooded dales,

0:25:46.400 --> 0:25:49.639
<v Speaker 1>where clear strands thread their way towards the coast. I'm

0:25:49.640 --> 0:25:53.480
<v Speaker 1>ignoring it now. It is a landscape of contrasts, austere

0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:58.640
<v Speaker 1>yet delicate, solitary yet deeply storied. Bronze age barrows rise

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:03.159
<v Speaker 1>subtly from the hills. Abbey ruins stand ruthless against the

0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:07.880
<v Speaker 1>horizon and coastal cliff fall dramatically into the restless North Sea.

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Whose sorry, I'm sorry.

0:26:09.680 --> 0:26:13.640
<v Speaker 1>In the small villages scattered across the moors, like continues,

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.160
<v Speaker 1>life continues at a measured pace. Stone cottages gathered around

0:26:18.240 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 1>the village, greens, smoke curling from chimneys in winter, lambs

0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.760
<v Speaker 1>scattered across fields in spring. To stand on the moors

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:29.879
<v Speaker 1>is to feel both exposed and anchored, to sense the

0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:33.200
<v Speaker 1>immensity of sky and the weight of history beneath your feet.

0:26:33.920 --> 0:26:39.399
<v Speaker 1>This is Yorkshire in its purest expression, resilient, expansive and

0:26:39.480 --> 0:26:43.760
<v Speaker 1>quietly profound. Nine year old Shannon Matthews and I.

0:26:43.640 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Want to say that was beautiful. That was really beautiful.

0:26:46.840 --> 0:26:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for saying that so much as well.

0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:53.280
<v Speaker 2>Do you know if Dibbley as in the vicar of

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:54.400
<v Speaker 2>is in that.

0:26:54.359 --> 0:26:57.680
<v Speaker 1>Area, because that's what yeah, I feel what she is. Yeah,

0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:02.080
<v Speaker 1>it's very similar. If it's not, Yeah, in putting as well.

0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Our nine year old Shannon Matthews lived on

0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 1>a council estate in West Yorkshire. Council estates expanded significantly

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:14.159
<v Speaker 1>after both World Wars, particularly from the nineteen fifties to

0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:18.520
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies, as Britain worked to replace slum housing and

0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:23.160
<v Speaker 1>address severe shortages. They ranged from suburban semi detached houses

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 1>with gardens to high rise tower blocks. While many provided

0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:32.160
<v Speaker 1>stable and affordable homes, some later became associated with economic

0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>deprivation due to unemployment, policy failures and long term under investment.

0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:41.840
<v Speaker 1>In Australia, the closest equivalent would be government or social housing.

0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:45.800
<v Speaker 1>On the estate, Shannon lived with her mother, Karen Matthews,

0:27:46.119 --> 0:27:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Karen's boyfriend Craig who was not her biological father, and

0:27:50.000 --> 0:27:54.080
<v Speaker 1>several siblings, most commonly reported as six or seven children

0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:56.159
<v Speaker 1>in that very household.

0:27:55.720 --> 0:27:57.679
<v Speaker 2>So not even a clear ant, not a.

0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Clear number no, which is bizarre. But there was always

0:28:00.520 --> 0:28:04.240
<v Speaker 1>six or seven I've found in every report. Reports of

0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the time described the home as overcrowded and in very

0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:13.440
<v Speaker 1>poor condition, with investations a mice and insects, significant dirt

0:28:13.800 --> 0:28:17.880
<v Speaker 1>and unhygienic living conditions. Accounts suggested that children were living

0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:23.359
<v Speaker 1>in severe neglect and squalor. Reports described frequent and intense

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 1>arguments between Karen Matthews and her partner, Craig Meehan, with

0:28:28.040 --> 0:28:31.919
<v Speaker 1>disputes that could continue for days. It was alleged that

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:36.080
<v Speaker 1>money intended for essentials such as food and nappies were

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:41.000
<v Speaker 1>often spent instead on cigarettes and alcohol. One account claimed

0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:45.400
<v Speaker 1>that rather than purchasing nappies, Karen often improvised, using pieces

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 1>of taw curtain fabric or even plastic bags.

0:28:49.880 --> 0:28:53.240
<v Speaker 2>One thing I will say is taw like reusable nappies

0:28:54.400 --> 0:28:58.880
<v Speaker 2>with tawel, Like that's what people use and have used

0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:01.480
<v Speaker 2>in the past. But I feel like that's yes, I

0:29:01.480 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 2>feel like that's not what's being insinuated here.

0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:07.200
<v Speaker 1>No no, no, don't want to non.

0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 2>Single use nappy shame anyone.

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:12.920
<v Speaker 1>No no, no, no no. But this was yeah, this

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 1>was often plastic bags. They wouldn't bindappies on her plastic

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:19.360
<v Speaker 1>bags or yeah tow On the wall in Shannon's beardroom,

0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 1>there were notes written between her and her brothers. One

0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.720
<v Speaker 1>read do you think we'll get tea tonight? Talking about

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 1>if they would be given any dinner at all. The

0:29:29.760 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 1>reply was we might get a packet of crisps if

0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 1>we're quiet. No one had noticed the other scribblings on

0:29:37.000 --> 0:29:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the wall until Shannon vanished, but one of the notes

0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:45.360
<v Speaker 1>read that she wanted to live with her dad. Neighbors

0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:49.400
<v Speaker 1>repeatedly reported concerns about Karen Matthews and her partner Craig

0:29:49.440 --> 0:29:54.320
<v Speaker 1>to child services, despite accounts that the children often arrived

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:59.080
<v Speaker 1>at school unclean and with matted hair. No sustained findings

0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:02.800
<v Speaker 1>of neglect appear to have been formally recorded at the time.

0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Some reports described Shannon as frequently having extremely dirty feet

0:30:08.480 --> 0:30:13.880
<v Speaker 1>caked in grime. In early two thousand and three, the

0:30:13.920 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Matthew's children were placed on the at risk register following

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.640
<v Speaker 1>allegations of alcohol misuse in the home and claims that

0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the children had been left alone overnight. Concerns with the

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:31.880
<v Speaker 1>community were clearly mounting. Karen underwent a psychological assessment and

0:30:32.000 --> 0:30:35.040
<v Speaker 1>was deemed in need of constant supervision as a mother,

0:30:36.840 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 1>with concerns raised about her ability to prioritize her children's

0:30:41.360 --> 0:30:42.600
<v Speaker 1>needs above her own.

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Can I just say if that wasn't picked up in

0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 2>the microphone, oh, digs just like coughed up a bit

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:51.400
<v Speaker 2>of toy fluff. You couldn't hear that and you just

0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 2>heard us get you.

0:30:54.040 --> 0:30:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. However, the family was later removed from the child

0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 1>protection register for years before Shannon's disappearance, and the case

0:31:02.840 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 1>was closed. And this is probably because of underfunding and everything,

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of the time, Social Services will probably

0:31:09.800 --> 0:31:13.760
<v Speaker 1>close a case out and they checked back and everything exactly,

0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:17.480
<v Speaker 1>and we'll go into this later. Accounts from Karen's mother, June,

0:31:17.760 --> 0:31:21.160
<v Speaker 1>suggested that Karen would sometimes ask her for money to

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:27.000
<v Speaker 1>stock the cupboards before schedule visitors scheduled visits from Social Services.

0:31:27.520 --> 0:31:31.120
<v Speaker 1>At the time, Karen reportedly received around three hundred and

0:31:31.160 --> 0:31:35.320
<v Speaker 1>fifty pounds a week in benefits, while Craig earned approximately

0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.640
<v Speaker 1>three hundred pounds a week working at a fish counter.

0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 1>Their home was described as a party house to some,

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:46.760
<v Speaker 1>with people frequently coming and going, while six or seven

0:31:46.920 --> 0:31:50.479
<v Speaker 1>children were living there. Craig was about ten years younger

0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:55.000
<v Speaker 1>than Karen, reflecting what some observers described as a pattern

0:31:55.200 --> 0:31:59.600
<v Speaker 1>in her relationships, forming partnerships with younger men, having children,

0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and then separating. By the time Shannon disappeared in two

0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:07.600
<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight, Karen was thirty one years old. Oh gosh,

0:32:07.600 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that's young, very young kid. Yeah. On the morning of Tuesday,

0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:15.520
<v Speaker 1>nineteenth of February two thousand and eight, nine year old

0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:18.560
<v Speaker 1>Shannon Matthews climbed down from the top bunk she shared

0:32:18.600 --> 0:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>with her two year old half sister, still wearing a

0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and one Dulmatians dressing game. Her year four

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.640
<v Speaker 1>class at Westmore Junior School was due to attend its

0:32:28.680 --> 0:32:31.960
<v Speaker 1>first swimming lesson that day, and she had been eagerly

0:32:32.520 --> 0:32:35.800
<v Speaker 1>looking forward to her. The night before had been tense

0:32:35.840 --> 0:32:39.880
<v Speaker 1>in the house after a heated argument. Shannon had sworn

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 1>at her mother's boyfriend, Craig, and fearful of his reaction,

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 1>ran in tears to her uncle Martin's house. She was

0:32:47.440 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>close to Martin.

0:32:48.280 --> 0:32:51.040
<v Speaker 2>I have an uncle called Martin, do you Martin Love?

0:32:51.320 --> 0:32:54.320
<v Speaker 2>Which I've only recently found out is also the name

0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:58.360
<v Speaker 2>of a former Australian cricketer. Never knew that not the

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>same bither she was. She knows so much about cricket.

0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:03.800
<v Speaker 2>You're wrong about that.

0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I love my wicket. I love my cricket. She was

0:33:06.080 --> 0:33:08.920
<v Speaker 1>close to Martin and his children and it was and

0:33:09.000 --> 0:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>it was not the first time she had sought refuge there.

0:33:12.680 --> 0:33:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Although we cared about her, he did not want to

0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:18.120
<v Speaker 1>become involved in and arrange for one of his children

0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.720
<v Speaker 1>to walk her home. Shannon cried the entire way back.

0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Even that sad, She's she's gone there. No refuge, Yeah,

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:29.120
<v Speaker 2>stay here, I.

0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Know, but I guess like as a sibling of you know,

0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:34.000
<v Speaker 1>to his sister, He's like, well, you know, this happens

0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. I don't want to get involved or

0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:37.760
<v Speaker 1>be that person, like you.

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Know, we're here for you. Come on, got to go

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 2>home now exactly.

0:33:41.440 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 1>And you don't know how bad that is, Like you can't.

0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Blame you say it. In hindsight it sounds like, oh,

0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 2>why did he send her home? But it could be like,

0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:50.360
<v Speaker 2>come on, Shannon, we've got to go sleep in your

0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 2>own bed tonight.

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The following morning, in the cold, cold house, Shannon

0:33:55.200 --> 0:33:58.520
<v Speaker 1>dressed for school, black trousers, a white T shirt, and

0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:03.440
<v Speaker 1>a black jumper uniform. She pulled on her pink rain

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.200
<v Speaker 1>boots trimmed with gray fur, picked up a blue striped

0:34:07.240 --> 0:34:09.439
<v Speaker 1>towel and swimming bag, and prepared to leave.

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:13.120
<v Speaker 2>You said that, really, I was kind of excited about

0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>the boots with.

0:34:13.680 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 1>The fur, boots with the fur looking at her.

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 2>The whole pool was looking at yeah.

0:34:17.880 --> 0:34:21.080
<v Speaker 1>And not fur as in the Vietnamese soup tom the

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 1>morning of nineteen Not that I'm not saying that. I

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 1>never said that. On the morning of nineteenth of February

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.480
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews led the left the

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:32.240
<v Speaker 1>house quietly.

0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh the day we're recording. This is the nineteenth February.

0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:40.800
<v Speaker 1>Really holy, how the heck? On the morning of nineteenth

0:34:40.840 --> 0:34:44.239
<v Speaker 1>to February two thousand and eight, Shannon Matthews left the

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 1>house quietly, reportedly around eight a m. Likely without breakfast,

0:34:50.000 --> 0:34:53.399
<v Speaker 1>on her own, on her own. At nine, her mother,

0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Karen Matthews, was awake, and another argument began. According to

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.680
<v Speaker 1>later accounts, Karen shouted at her to get out of

0:35:00.680 --> 0:35:04.400
<v Speaker 1>her house and don't come back. Shannon, ever returned to

0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:04.880
<v Speaker 1>that house.

0:35:04.920 --> 0:35:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh God.

0:35:06.560 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 1>She walked to school with her cousins, telling them about

0:35:08.920 --> 0:35:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the fight the night before and how she had sworn

0:35:11.719 --> 0:35:15.440
<v Speaker 1>at Craig, her mum's boyfriend. She also repeated that her

0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:18.839
<v Speaker 1>muma taught her not to come back because conflict at

0:35:18.880 --> 0:35:22.560
<v Speaker 1>home was not unusual, The comments did not really immediately

0:35:22.760 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 1>raise alarm. At Wesmore Junior School, Shannon spent most of

0:35:26.960 --> 0:35:31.680
<v Speaker 1>the day quietly with her best friend, Meghan Oldridge. That afternoon,

0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 1>their class traveled to a local leisure center for their

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:39.520
<v Speaker 1>first swimming lesson, something Shannon had been excited about for weeks.

0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Meghan later recalled that Shannon sleep seemed kind of slightly

0:35:42.680 --> 0:35:45.520
<v Speaker 1>subdued at first, but once they're in the pool, the

0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 1>girls giggled and played as usual. Shannon had occasionally mentioned

0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 1>wanting to run away and live with her father, though

0:35:53.640 --> 0:35:56.680
<v Speaker 1>her friends did not know how seriously to take these comments.

0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:59.920
<v Speaker 1>They were nine years old, and the conversation soon moved on.

0:36:01.320 --> 0:36:04.719
<v Speaker 1>The class returned to school around three pm. On the

0:36:04.760 --> 0:36:09.319
<v Speaker 1>bus bank, Shannon became quiet again. CCTV later captured the

0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:11.960
<v Speaker 1>moment she and Meghan left the school grounds for the

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 1>final time, footage that would eventually be broadcast worldwide. Shannon

0:36:18.000 --> 0:36:20.279
<v Speaker 1>told Meghan that her brother was supposed to meet her

0:36:20.320 --> 0:36:23.480
<v Speaker 1>at the school gates, but when no one arrived, she

0:36:23.560 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 1>set off alone. Meghan later remembered that Shannon walked in

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:30.279
<v Speaker 1>the opposite direction from her usual route home, though at

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the time no one realized the significance. Shannon never arrived

0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.239
<v Speaker 1>home and Paul Megan Oldridge would never see her best

0:36:39.239 --> 0:36:39.759
<v Speaker 1>friend again.

0:36:39.840 --> 0:36:41.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh God, that poor girl.

0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:45.960
<v Speaker 1>When Shannon Matthews hadn't returned home by four pm, Karen

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Matthews went to check with neighbors, but Shannon wasn't there.

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:52.239
<v Speaker 1>While it was unusual for her not to be home

0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 1>by that time, she could have stopped at a friend's

0:36:55.200 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 1>house that wasn't unlikely or even her cousins. On the

0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:01.720
<v Speaker 1>way back. Karen then went to the shops with Craig's

0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:06.040
<v Speaker 1>sister Amanda, assuming Shannon would be home when they returned,

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.160
<v Speaker 1>but she still wasn't there. When they got back, Karen

0:37:10.200 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 1>called nine nine nine, which for Australia zero zero zero

0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:17.400
<v Speaker 1>in America is nine one one at approximately six forty

0:37:17.440 --> 0:37:21.759
<v Speaker 1>eight pm report Shannon missing. It was the first time

0:37:21.840 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the Channon had ever disappeared on the phone. Karen was

0:37:25.640 --> 0:37:30.680
<v Speaker 1>tearful but cooperative, insisting there was no reason Shannon would

0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 1>have run away. Shannon did not have a phone, so

0:37:33.640 --> 0:37:36.080
<v Speaker 1>her location could not be changed. Remember this is like

0:37:36.120 --> 0:37:38.160
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight as well. Technology is not what

0:37:38.160 --> 0:37:39.719
<v Speaker 1>it is today now.

0:37:39.840 --> 0:37:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I had a phone then, but I was like twenty yeah, you.

0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:48.040
<v Speaker 1>Were luncheon and brunching back then, oh.

0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, on my phone, texted snake.

0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Played snake. Police arrived at around seven fifteen pm Craig

0:37:56.680 --> 0:38:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and three other three so Craig and three the children

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:05.320
<v Speaker 1>answered the door, with Karen frantically searching the area that

0:38:05.400 --> 0:38:07.319
<v Speaker 1>she was kind of knocking on all doors frantically this

0:38:07.360 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 1>time inside. Officers found the house in poor condition, rubbish

0:38:12.040 --> 0:38:15.960
<v Speaker 1>and takeaway containers piled up, closed strewn everywhere, and a

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:19.799
<v Speaker 1>strong smell of cigarette smoke. It was a very good

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:22.240
<v Speaker 1>ventilation in the house and it was really really strong.

0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:27.080
<v Speaker 1>Shortly after, Karen returned visibly upset, but began answering questions.

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.880
<v Speaker 1>When asked if Shannon had a reason to run away,

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.439
<v Speaker 1>she suggested Shannon had been jealous of her older brother

0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:38.920
<v Speaker 1>receiving a school computer. Karen repeatedly said, I just know

0:38:39.080 --> 0:38:43.000
<v Speaker 1>that she is out there somewhere. Officers requested permission to

0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:47.120
<v Speaker 1>search the house. Craig appeared upset at first, worried they

0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:50.360
<v Speaker 1>were being accused, but the police explained it was standard

0:38:50.400 --> 0:38:51.440
<v Speaker 1>procedure just.

0:38:51.400 --> 0:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>To be able to check it out, like to be yes,

0:38:53.680 --> 0:38:55.439
<v Speaker 2>we definitely know she's definitely not there.

0:38:55.960 --> 0:38:59.520
<v Speaker 1>And I think the class part of this is extremely

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:03.840
<v Speaker 1>important here. They were not a wealthy family, and also

0:39:04.200 --> 0:39:07.120
<v Speaker 1>the police were not necessarily to be trusted because if

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:10.640
<v Speaker 1>you spoke out on the estate, social workers and everything

0:39:10.640 --> 0:39:12.120
<v Speaker 1>would come in. You did not want to be a

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:17.480
<v Speaker 1>snitch on that estate. Meanwhile, neighbors had already began searching

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 1>the estate. Shannon's father biological father, Leon was contacted and

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.680
<v Speaker 1>joined the search. Visibly distraught, search teams called out her

0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:30.160
<v Speaker 1>name as they combed the streets. The estate was an

0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:35.239
<v Speaker 1>extremely close knit community. One detached house searched as a

0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:39.360
<v Speaker 1>local hub for events, yoga, and gatherings, making it a

0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:43.600
<v Speaker 1>natural focal point for organizing the search. The leader of

0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:47.919
<v Speaker 1>the community was Julie Bushby. As soon as Julie heard

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.560
<v Speaker 1>the news of Shannon's disappearance, she was the first to

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:54.600
<v Speaker 1>get everyone together and go looking for her, hitting the

0:39:54.640 --> 0:39:57.440
<v Speaker 1>streets to find her as soon as they could.

0:39:57.640 --> 0:40:01.520
<v Speaker 2>She was kind of just like that Auntie that get everything,

0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:03.920
<v Speaker 2>knows everyone.

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, and we'll go into the there's a dramatized version

0:40:06.040 --> 0:40:08.120
<v Speaker 1>of this which I have not seen. We'll go into

0:40:08.160 --> 0:40:10.720
<v Speaker 1>it later. But apparently the person who placed Julie Bushby

0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:14.600
<v Speaker 1>is quite incredible, very very strong force, and someone that

0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.640
<v Speaker 1>just led the community, kind of like a good version

0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:19.120
<v Speaker 1>of a Karen. I guess just don't want to go

0:40:19.600 --> 0:40:21.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm the person who owns this place. I know what

0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:22.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing.

0:40:22.360 --> 0:40:23.840
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna say she's a bit of a Karen,

0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:27.400
<v Speaker 2>but that didn't sound right because Karen is yeah, exactly.

0:40:28.000 --> 0:40:30.960
<v Speaker 1>It was a community effort. Everyone was sure that she

0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:35.040
<v Speaker 1>would show up. There was no way that Shannon would

0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.600
<v Speaker 1>ever have been abducted, especially in a place where everyone

0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:45.440
<v Speaker 1>knew everyone. It was impossible. Also, they thought the night

0:40:45.480 --> 0:40:49.000
<v Speaker 1>that Shannon Matthews went missing, it was freezing and raining,

0:40:49.360 --> 0:40:53.239
<v Speaker 1>with temperatures around minus four degrees. If she had been

0:40:53.320 --> 0:40:57.319
<v Speaker 1>outside all night, she would have been at serious risk

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:03.279
<v Speaker 1>of developing hypothermia. Aaron Matthews told investigators there was no

0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:06.439
<v Speaker 1>reason for Shannon to run away. Police searched around five

0:41:06.560 --> 0:41:09.840
<v Speaker 1>hundred houses and employed eighteen of the twenty two body

0:41:09.840 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 1>search dogs in the UK at the time, but still

0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.040
<v Speaker 1>found nothing. I think these search dogs were actually from

0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 1>the local area, but you know, but still eighteen oh

0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:21.640
<v Speaker 1>twenty two the way they really wanted to find her.

0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Media coverage highlighted as a stark contrasts contrast in public

0:41:27.680 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 1>empathy compared with Madela McCann's case, with suggestions that Madeleine's

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:36.280
<v Speaker 1>middle class background drew greater sympathy and attention that Shannon's

0:41:36.320 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 1>working class. Environment journalist Richard Edwards was among the first

0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:46.680
<v Speaker 1>allowed into the Matthews family home. Craig took him to

0:41:46.760 --> 0:41:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Shannon's shared room straight away. Karen described finding it difficult

0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>to be in that room after Shannon had gone, calling

0:41:53.920 --> 0:42:00.279
<v Speaker 1>Craig her rock. Craig became emotional in this time, while

0:42:00.320 --> 0:42:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Shannon's presence or the memory of her, remained hauntedly absent.

0:42:04.760 --> 0:42:08.399
<v Speaker 1>Shannon's father, Leon Matthews. This is a biological father. Sorry,

0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 1>so he's name his real Leon Rose Sorry, also spoke

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:15.399
<v Speaker 1>to media around this time. He admitted that he had

0:42:15.440 --> 0:42:18.960
<v Speaker 1>not seen much of her recently, but desperately wanted her home.

0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:22.440
<v Speaker 2>I've just realized I'm treating this as like reading a

0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:26.080
<v Speaker 2>Who Done It? Novel? Every single name you're bringing up,

0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:28.600
<v Speaker 2>talking something about them and going roightn't okay.

0:42:28.880 --> 0:42:31.440
<v Speaker 1>A note on Shannon's bedroom wall expressed it as I

0:42:31.600 --> 0:42:34.560
<v Speaker 1>to live with Leon, and he said on camera that

0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:39.680
<v Speaker 1>if she returned that things would work out. Leon, described

0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:44.440
<v Speaker 1>as a quintessential Yorkshireman, showed little outward emotion, so quite

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:48.920
<v Speaker 1>like quite a tough guy. Really yeah, but you didn't.

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:54.520
<v Speaker 2>Stereotype kind of gruff old Englishman type, like that's the stereotype.

0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean absolutely yeah, kind of rough and ready like

0:42:59.120 --> 0:43:01.239
<v Speaker 1>you know that sort of person. And our police briefly

0:43:01.520 --> 0:43:05.759
<v Speaker 1>investigated him but quickly cleared him of any suspicion. In

0:43:05.800 --> 0:43:10.000
<v Speaker 1>the weeks after her disappearance, Karen actually visited a psye

0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:12.439
<v Speaker 1>kick as a kind of a last ditch effort, who

0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:17.839
<v Speaker 1>claimed Shannon had been taken by someone known to both

0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Karen and Craigh God. Meanwhile, volunteers Likelie Julie bish By,

0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:29.960
<v Speaker 1>Julie Bushby, Julie Bishop, Julie Bushby tirelessly campaigned for her return,

0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:34.080
<v Speaker 1>posting flies, printing t shirts, and throwing themselves into the

0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:38.480
<v Speaker 1>search completely. Yet days passed with no trace.

0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:39.960
<v Speaker 2>God how awful.

0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Cases like this where a child disappears with no immediate

0:43:43.600 --> 0:43:48.359
<v Speaker 1>leads are extremely rare. And the longer, Oh, thank God,

0:43:48.400 --> 0:43:52.040
<v Speaker 1>and the longer Shannon remained missing, the more suspicion and

0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:57.280
<v Speaker 1>anxiety grew. The Sun newspaper offered a twenty thousand pound reward,

0:43:58.040 --> 0:43:59.360
<v Speaker 1>and Karen and Craig.

0:43:59.120 --> 0:44:02.759
<v Speaker 2>Gave sorry, yeah, Yeah, far out.

0:44:02.560 --> 0:44:07.760
<v Speaker 1>And Karen and Craig gave repeated interviews. Even celebrities became involved.

0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Leona Lewis, whose song Bleeding Love was Shannon's favorite song,

0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:17.400
<v Speaker 1>reached out to show so bless. But as time dragged on,

0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:21.880
<v Speaker 1>the chances of finding Shannon alive appeared to diminish, and

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:28.560
<v Speaker 1>the police grew increasingly desperate. Neil Shannon's uncle said the

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:32.640
<v Speaker 1>next day after she went missing, we searched everywhere, driving

0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:35.960
<v Speaker 1>around the area until four a m. We looked in

0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:38.480
<v Speaker 1>the neighbours' gardens and checked all the places she would

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:42.880
<v Speaker 1>normally be, but came up with nothing. We're extremely worried

0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.799
<v Speaker 1>when limbo now and don't know what to do. It's

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 1>completely out of character and unexpected for her to just

0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:53.239
<v Speaker 1>go off. It's a horrible feeling that she might not

0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:57.560
<v Speaker 1>even be in Yorkshire anymore. She could be a million

0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:01.120
<v Speaker 1>miles away by now if someone had her. She is

0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:04.359
<v Speaker 1>a quiet girl and very shy. You might even say

0:45:04.400 --> 0:45:07.719
<v Speaker 1>she is timid if she had a problem. She was

0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:09.840
<v Speaker 1>not the kind of kid who would go running for

0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:14.080
<v Speaker 1>help right away. She is scared of the dark. That's

0:45:14.120 --> 0:45:18.920
<v Speaker 1>why it's all a mystery. As the hours passed, the

0:45:19.080 --> 0:45:23.359
<v Speaker 1>terrifying thought what if someone had taken her? What if

0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:27.120
<v Speaker 1>she was a million miles away? Police began to treat

0:45:27.160 --> 0:45:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Shannon's disappearance not as a runaway case, but maybe as

0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:38.040
<v Speaker 1>a likely abduction. Meanwhile, Julie bishb fucking hell Julie Bushby

0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:42.399
<v Speaker 1>continued her Tyler's search and Karen Matthews remained isolated at home,

0:45:42.920 --> 0:45:44.960
<v Speaker 1>anxiously awaiting the news.

0:45:45.440 --> 0:45:48.600
<v Speaker 2>Julie Bishop is a former politician in Australia. For any

0:45:48.600 --> 0:45:51.640
<v Speaker 2>over listeness that don't know why we keep laughing when

0:45:51.680 --> 0:45:52.120
<v Speaker 2>he says.

0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Julie Bishby, Craig and Karen were repeatedly questioned and asked

0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:02.800
<v Speaker 1>for intimate any information that they could provide. Police seized

0:46:02.840 --> 0:46:05.960
<v Speaker 1>both of their computers and continued door to door inquiries

0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:10.560
<v Speaker 1>in nearby Wakefield. The police training school closed for the day,

0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:15.080
<v Speaker 1>sending every available cadet into the community to help search.

0:46:15.320 --> 0:46:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Julie Bushby coordinated the civilian effort. People turned

0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:24.040
<v Speaker 1>up uninvited, determined to help, as if Shannon could have

0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:27.120
<v Speaker 1>been their own daughter. Now it's a very close knit

0:46:27.160 --> 0:46:29.120
<v Speaker 1>community and everyone just kind of went, what if this

0:46:29.239 --> 0:46:32.759
<v Speaker 1>was our daughter, we need to help right away. But

0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:36.560
<v Speaker 1>after sixteen hours with no sight of her, the case

0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:38.760
<v Speaker 1>was escalated to the homicide squad.

0:46:38.880 --> 0:46:41.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that quickly. That's terrifying.

0:46:41.560 --> 0:46:43.160
<v Speaker 1>But I think like in a small place like this,

0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 1>like the homicide squad would probably the same search team really,

0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:53.560
<v Speaker 1>like exactly. National media coverage soon drew comparisons to Medela McCann,

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:57.560
<v Speaker 1>who had vanished just nine months earlier in Portugal and

0:46:57.960 --> 0:47:01.960
<v Speaker 1>was never found, has never been has never been found

0:47:02.080 --> 0:47:08.200
<v Speaker 1>far Ya. Sixteen hours became twenty four. Chief Superintendent Barry

0:47:08.320 --> 0:47:12.360
<v Speaker 1>South held a packed press conference. He warned that ninety

0:47:12.440 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 1>six percent of abducted children are killed within the first

0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:16.120
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours.

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:18.960
<v Speaker 2>That's an awful thing to say, say Jesus.

0:47:19.040 --> 0:47:22.640
<v Speaker 1>By that time, two hundred officers had knocked on one

0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:26.400
<v Speaker 1>eight hundred dolls, a figure that would soon rise to

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:32.840
<v Speaker 1>three thousand. A helicopter equipped with heat seeking technology patrolled

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:37.759
<v Speaker 1>the area continuously. Divers searched a nearby lake and no

0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:54.400
<v Speaker 1>effort was spared, but still they found nothing. Divers searched

0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:58.240
<v Speaker 1>a nearby lake and no effort was spared, but still

0:47:58.800 --> 0:48:04.000
<v Speaker 1>they found nothing. Meanwhile, Julie Bushby and Estate Residence rallied

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 1>the community, printing hundreds of posters and T shirts featuring

0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Shannon's photos, keeping the search and hope well alive. On

0:48:12.760 --> 0:48:16.600
<v Speaker 1>day three of the search, Karen spoke to a news crew.

0:48:17.640 --> 0:48:21.120
<v Speaker 1>There was a sense of helplessness, but Karen was hopeful.

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:24.640
<v Speaker 1>She thought that Shannon was out there somewhere. Could she

0:48:24.840 --> 0:48:29.480
<v Speaker 1>just come home. She had massive red rings around her eyes,

0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:32.319
<v Speaker 1>which showed that she hadn't been sleeping at all and

0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:37.160
<v Speaker 1>was crying. A musical called Shannon Matthews. The musical showed

0:48:37.239 --> 0:48:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Karen with the big red rings around her eyes throughout

0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:40.680
<v Speaker 1>the entire musical.

0:48:40.880 --> 0:48:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, yeah, what.

0:48:42.760 --> 0:48:47.160
<v Speaker 1>As a musical about Shannon Matthews? The musical so about

0:48:47.160 --> 0:48:48.399
<v Speaker 1>the missing the missing girl.

0:48:48.520 --> 0:48:51.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming, but I hope I'm wrong. It's a parody musical.

0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:56.000
<v Speaker 1>What the fuck? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know if I

0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:58.640
<v Speaker 1>don't know anything about it, but maybe he would googler this.

0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:02.960
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but I find that disgusting.

0:49:03.320 --> 0:49:04.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't want to google it yet because I

0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:05.719
<v Speaker 2>don't know what's happened.

0:49:06.160 --> 0:49:11.080
<v Speaker 1>After the end, Karen said through tears in the news report, Shannon,

0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:14.560
<v Speaker 1>if you're out there, please Darling, come home. We love

0:49:14.600 --> 0:49:18.240
<v Speaker 1>you so much. Me, your dad, your brothers, your sisters,

0:49:18.480 --> 0:49:22.920
<v Speaker 1>everybody loves you. Your dad's missing you so much, Shannon,

0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:26.360
<v Speaker 1>He's even out looking for you. Please come home. Shannon,

0:49:26.680 --> 0:49:31.280
<v Speaker 1>if you're out there, come home. If anybody's got my daughter,

0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:37.080
<v Speaker 1>my beautiful princess daughter, please bring her home safe. Karen

0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.440
<v Speaker 1>came across in the interview as somewhat of a caricature.

0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Comparisons were soon drawn to a character in the British

0:49:45.600 --> 0:49:50.360
<v Speaker 1>TV show Shameless, Oh. Shameless betrays life on a Manchester

0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:54.399
<v Speaker 1>Council of State, Focusing on a white working class reliant

0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:59.960
<v Speaker 1>on low paid work and welfare. It depicts poverty, social stigma,

0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:05.080
<v Speaker 1>and unstable parenting, intense relationships with the state, often mixing

0:50:05.160 --> 0:50:10.360
<v Speaker 1>realism with dark comedy. Sharon Matthews came from similar working

0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:14.240
<v Speaker 1>class Council of State background in West Yorkshire. Media coverage

0:50:14.239 --> 0:50:17.279
<v Speaker 1>of her two thousand and eight disappearance frequently framed her

0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:22.719
<v Speaker 1>family through negative class stereotypes. In this sense, Shameless reflects

0:50:22.719 --> 0:50:28.080
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes exaggerates, the same social environment and class marginalization

0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:32.560
<v Speaker 1>that shaped public perceptions of the Matthews case. There was

0:50:32.600 --> 0:50:36.080
<v Speaker 1>footage of Karen and Craig in the doorway. After one

0:50:36.120 --> 0:50:39.759
<v Speaker 1>week there was still nothing in the background. Detectives were

0:50:39.760 --> 0:50:44.080
<v Speaker 1>looking into everyone and everything they could. Police did not

0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:47.920
<v Speaker 1>want to have comparisons drawn between their investigations and the

0:50:48.160 --> 0:50:54.560
<v Speaker 1>highly criticized investigation into the disappearance of Madela mccairn. Julie

0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Bushby stuck by her friend Karen after she became more

0:50:58.080 --> 0:51:02.160
<v Speaker 1>and more withdrawn. Karen planted flowers in the front garden

0:51:02.200 --> 0:51:06.320
<v Speaker 1>for Shannon with local children from the estate. A large

0:51:06.320 --> 0:51:11.280
<v Speaker 1>group released balloons for Shannon into the sky. Another press

0:51:11.320 --> 0:51:15.480
<v Speaker 1>conference was held two weeks after Shannon went missing. Karen

0:51:15.520 --> 0:51:18.400
<v Speaker 1>wore a t shirt with Shannon's face on it, clutching

0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:23.200
<v Speaker 1>one of her Teddy bears. She spoke out again. Shannon's dad, Leon,

0:51:23.360 --> 0:51:26.960
<v Speaker 1>also spoke at the press conference. This time. During the

0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.640
<v Speaker 1>press conference, Karen expressed that the family didn't feel safe anymore,

0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 1>that Shannon's brothers were constantly asking where she was and

0:51:35.120 --> 0:51:40.400
<v Speaker 1>if someone had her, then please let her go. Karen

0:51:40.440 --> 0:51:43.400
<v Speaker 1>said that she couldn't trust anyone close to her anymore.

0:51:43.560 --> 0:51:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you couldn't.

0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:47.719
<v Speaker 1>She just couldn't trust anyone. When asked if you thought

0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:51.240
<v Speaker 1>it was someone she knew who had taken Shannon, Karen said,

0:51:51.800 --> 0:51:54.440
<v Speaker 1>it seems that way because there's no trace of her

0:51:54.560 --> 0:51:58.759
<v Speaker 1>at all. There's no trace of her swimming costume, her towel,

0:51:59.080 --> 0:52:03.399
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that. She's taken with her. Karen told

0:52:03.440 --> 0:52:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the press that the last thing Shannon said when she

0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.279
<v Speaker 1>left the house was I'll see you at tea time. Mum,

0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:13.800
<v Speaker 1>love you. Now a little bit about Karen Matthews Karen

0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:17.000
<v Speaker 1>Matthews were twenty three when she had her third child,

0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:22.960
<v Speaker 1>Shannon Matthews. Shannon's biological father, Leon, was a teenager at

0:52:22.960 --> 0:52:27.240
<v Speaker 1>the time, and the couple separated shortly after Shannon's birth.

0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:30.680
<v Speaker 1>When Shannon was four, Karen moved to the more Side

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:35.640
<v Speaker 1>estate in Jewsbury, an area of two story red brick houses.

0:52:36.360 --> 0:52:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Jewsberry had once thrived on the wool industry, and Moore

0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:44.040
<v Speaker 1>Side had been a relatively appealing working class neighborhood, but

0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:48.120
<v Speaker 1>after the mills closed, employment became scarce, and the nineteen

0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:53.880
<v Speaker 1>eighties crime crimes had increased, giving the area a rough reputation.

0:52:54.600 --> 0:52:58.279
<v Speaker 1>Significant investments were made to improve housing, and by two

0:52:58.320 --> 0:53:02.720
<v Speaker 1>thousand and eight the estate become desirable, though many residents

0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:07.720
<v Speaker 1>still survived on single minimum wage incomes. Karen left school

0:53:07.840 --> 0:53:12.440
<v Speaker 1>at sixteen with a below average IQ and began work

0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:15.600
<v Speaker 1>as a cleaner. She had her first child at seventeen.

0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:18.560
<v Speaker 1>By the time she met Leon, she already had a

0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:22.600
<v Speaker 1>child from a previous relationship. Within months of meeting Leon,

0:53:22.680 --> 0:53:25.920
<v Speaker 1>she became pregnant with their son, and their relationship eventually

0:53:26.000 --> 0:53:29.480
<v Speaker 1>became strained under the pressures of raising children together with

0:53:29.600 --> 0:53:33.320
<v Speaker 1>not much money. At twenty three, Karen and Leon had Shannon,

0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:37.240
<v Speaker 1>who was taken straight from the hospital. Karen's parents, June

0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and Gordon. Karen was one of seven children herself. June

0:53:42.080 --> 0:53:45.279
<v Speaker 1>and Gordon, despite their own working class struggles, ran a

0:53:45.320 --> 0:53:50.600
<v Speaker 1>stable household and prioritized their grandchildren's welfare. Shannon stayed with

0:53:50.680 --> 0:53:54.000
<v Speaker 1>them during her first months of life, but Karen did

0:53:54.040 --> 0:53:56.800
<v Speaker 1>not maintain the same level of care for her daughter.

0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:01.319
<v Speaker 1>When Shannon was two, Leon moved away away with their

0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:05.759
<v Speaker 1>son at Karen's request, so Karen kept the daughter and

0:54:05.800 --> 0:54:08.840
<v Speaker 1>he took to the Within months, Karen had begun a

0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:13.240
<v Speaker 1>relationship with another partner and became pregnant again. A pattern

0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:17.200
<v Speaker 1>developed her partners would eventually leave, sometimes taking the children

0:54:17.239 --> 0:54:20.760
<v Speaker 1>with them, while Karen had subsequent children with a new man.

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:23.840
<v Speaker 1>By the time she settled in More Side of State,

0:54:24.040 --> 0:54:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Karen had six children with five different fathers. Karen Matthews

0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:31.720
<v Speaker 1>moved to More Side of State with three of her children,

0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:36.600
<v Speaker 1>including Shannon Matthews. Karen frequently argued with her boyfriends, and

0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:39.280
<v Speaker 1>money that should have gone to her children were often

0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:43.439
<v Speaker 1>spent on cigarettes and alcohol. It was on the More

0:54:43.480 --> 0:54:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Side of State that she actually met Craig Meehan. Karen

0:54:47.400 --> 0:54:51.600
<v Speaker 1>was twenty eight and Craig only eighteen. Oh gosh. Within weeks,

0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:55.439
<v Speaker 1>he moved into a three bedroom council house located next

0:54:55.440 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 1>to his sister Amanda and an Amanda's husband Neil So

0:55:00.440 --> 0:55:04.280
<v Speaker 1>and yeah and his yeah brother in law lived right

0:55:04.400 --> 0:55:05.600
<v Speaker 1>next door to Karen.

0:55:06.360 --> 0:55:08.600
<v Speaker 2>Very everybody loves Raymond.

0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:14.040
<v Speaker 1>Les hilarious but yes. Craig's mother, Alice and another sister, Caroline,

0:55:14.160 --> 0:55:19.160
<v Speaker 1>also lived nearby. The relationships soon led to pregnancy, and

0:55:19.239 --> 0:55:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Karen had another daughter, her seventh child. Karen and Craig

0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:30.280
<v Speaker 1>maintained close ties with Craig's sisters, but Karen's own sister, Julie,

0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:34.440
<v Speaker 1>was more distant. Julie and her husband John frequently expressed

0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:39.120
<v Speaker 1>concern over Karen's neglect, particularly her failure to provide proper

0:55:39.160 --> 0:55:43.560
<v Speaker 1>food or nappies for the children. On several occasions, Julie

0:55:43.640 --> 0:55:48.279
<v Speaker 1>gave Karen money, which was reportedly spent on alcohol and cigarettes,

0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:53.320
<v Speaker 1>leaving the children reliant on frozen meals. The family's situation

0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:59.200
<v Speaker 1>drew repeated attention. Social services were contacted multiple times. The

0:55:59.320 --> 0:56:03.160
<v Speaker 1>children we play the on the at risk register and

0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:07.480
<v Speaker 1>later removed, raising further questions about the adequacy of oversight

0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:13.000
<v Speaker 1>and the ongoing neglect social work, much like in Australia,

0:56:13.360 --> 0:56:16.920
<v Speaker 1>is massively underfunded. The More side of State was a

0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:21.120
<v Speaker 1>close knit community where many residents had negative experiences with

0:56:21.200 --> 0:56:24.319
<v Speaker 1>social workers and were wary of engaging with them for

0:56:24.400 --> 0:56:29.240
<v Speaker 1>fear of having their children removed. Karen Matthews rarely allowed

0:56:29.320 --> 0:56:32.719
<v Speaker 1>social workers to actually see Shannon. While a visitor would

0:56:32.719 --> 0:56:36.040
<v Speaker 1>occasionally come to read to the children, she had minimal

0:56:36.160 --> 0:56:41.160
<v Speaker 1>contact with. Shannon. Craig Meehan, by contrast, drew little negative

0:56:41.160 --> 0:56:43.759
<v Speaker 1>attention from anyone, just a quiet guy that lived on

0:56:43.800 --> 0:56:49.800
<v Speaker 1>the estate. Police had to investigate anyone connected to Shannon's family.

0:56:51.040 --> 0:56:54.919
<v Speaker 1>They spent constant hours and while countless hours I wrote,

0:56:54.960 --> 0:56:59.280
<v Speaker 1>but I said constant, I was tracing her family tree,

0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:04.400
<v Speaker 1>which included over three hundred and fifty relatives. Everyone interviewed

0:57:04.480 --> 0:57:08.560
<v Speaker 1>provided as much information as possible, and Karen, Craig, and

0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:13.920
<v Speaker 1>shannon siblings all gave DNA samples. When the results returned,

0:57:14.880 --> 0:57:19.600
<v Speaker 1>police informed Karen and Craig one of so that the

0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Craig's daughter was not actually Craig's daughter, so not biological no.

0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:30.480
<v Speaker 1>After twenty four days after Shannon disappeared, Julie Bushby organized

0:57:30.520 --> 0:57:33.560
<v Speaker 1>a fundraising disco at the local cricket club for the

0:57:33.560 --> 0:57:38.040
<v Speaker 1>missing Shannon appeal. Karen and Craig attended, but mostly kept

0:57:38.080 --> 0:57:40.640
<v Speaker 1>to themselves. They were very withdrawn by this point.

0:57:41.000 --> 0:57:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're not exactly going and dancing.

0:57:42.880 --> 0:57:47.920
<v Speaker 1>No, exactly. Police also released CCTV footage from the swimming pool,

0:57:48.320 --> 0:57:53.400
<v Speaker 1>which allowed Shannon's best friend, Megan to realize that Shannon

0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:57.560
<v Speaker 1>had walked in the wrong direction after leaving school, away

0:57:57.760 --> 0:58:02.400
<v Speaker 1>from her home. This ray concerns as the area was

0:58:02.480 --> 0:58:05.880
<v Speaker 1>not as familiar as people had assumed. With a twenty

0:58:05.960 --> 0:58:09.600
<v Speaker 1>mile radius of Shannon's house, there were one thousand, four

0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:14.440
<v Speaker 1>hundred registered sex offenders Holy sit, several of whom had

0:58:14.480 --> 0:58:16.120
<v Speaker 1>direct links to her family.

0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh God.

0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:23.360
<v Speaker 1>The Matthew's household was put under constance of ailance. Meanwhile,

0:58:23.720 --> 0:58:28.120
<v Speaker 1>the Sun newspaper increased its reward from twenty thousand pounds

0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:29.720
<v Speaker 1>to fifty thousand pounds.

0:58:29.840 --> 0:58:32.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm like dumbfounded by newspaper offering.

0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wonder if it's after the Madela McCann disappearance.

0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if it was like a big thing where

0:58:38.000 --> 0:58:40.120
<v Speaker 1>it was like the paper something.

0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:45.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's their way of going like we'll get tipsy story.

0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right. Around the time, a tip came from

0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:53.400
<v Speaker 1>a local man in a nearby village suggesting people speak

0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:57.240
<v Speaker 1>to a man by the name of Michael Donovan, who

0:58:57.240 --> 0:59:01.000
<v Speaker 1>had previously visited the area regularly but had stopped coming

0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:06.680
<v Speaker 1>after Shannon disappeared. Michael Donovan was thirty nine years old

0:59:06.800 --> 0:59:10.600
<v Speaker 1>at the time. He lived less than a mile down

0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:15.520
<v Speaker 1>the road from Karen and Craig's home. So who was he?

0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Michael Donovan was born Paul Drake and was the youngest

0:59:23.280 --> 0:59:26.560
<v Speaker 1>of nine. He grew up on an estate not too

0:59:26.600 --> 0:59:32.360
<v Speaker 1>far from the apartment where Shannon was found. He started

0:59:32.360 --> 0:59:34.320
<v Speaker 1>getting in trouble with the law when he was just

0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:39.120
<v Speaker 1>eleven years old. His first offenses were arson and shoplifting.

0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:41.200
<v Speaker 2>His first offenses were us.

0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:44.880
<v Speaker 1>At the age of sixteen, he was charged with criminal

0:59:45.000 --> 0:59:50.280
<v Speaker 1>damage and ran away from home. At nineteen, he changed

0:59:50.320 --> 0:59:53.840
<v Speaker 1>his name by deed Paul to Michael Donovan, who was

0:59:53.880 --> 0:59:57.320
<v Speaker 1>his hero at the time from his favorite TV show V.

0:59:58.200 --> 1:00:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Michael Donovan is the main Hue human protagonist in V

1:00:01.880 --> 1:00:02.840
<v Speaker 1>and its sequels.

1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Human protagonist.

1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:09.600
<v Speaker 1>A former photo journalist turned resistance leader. He organized the

1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:15.520
<v Speaker 1>fight against the alien visitors who secretly planned to exploit Earth.

1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:20.560
<v Speaker 1>Donovan is portrayed as courageous, resourceful, and driven by a

1:00:20.720 --> 1:00:25.960
<v Speaker 1>strong moral sense. Weirdly, there is also a character by

1:00:25.960 --> 1:00:28.280
<v Speaker 1>the name of Michael Donovan in Shameless.

1:00:28.800 --> 1:00:28.960
<v Speaker 5>Oh.

1:00:29.240 --> 1:00:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Michael Donovan is a recurring character in Shameless, portrayed as

1:00:32.840 --> 1:00:37.160
<v Speaker 1>a tough, volatile, and fiercely loyal member of the Donovan family,

1:00:38.040 --> 1:00:40.840
<v Speaker 1>part of a rival clan to the Gallaghers on the

1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Council Estate. He embodies hypermasculine working class identity, often involved

1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:51.240
<v Speaker 1>in conflict, petticrime, and family power struggles.

1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Do you watch Shameless, Yeah, I've watched the American one,

1:00:53.960 --> 1:00:54.800
<v Speaker 2>but there's an English one.

1:00:54.800 --> 1:00:57.919
<v Speaker 1>I'm as English as original, Like, yeah, so I.

1:00:57.840 --> 1:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Was assuming, and then I was like, I don't recognize him,

1:01:00.040 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of it, But then we gal Gallagher's. Gallagher's is the

1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:04.120
<v Speaker 2>same name in the American one.

1:01:04.120 --> 1:01:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Right, right, right, exactly. But back to the real Michael Donovan,

1:01:08.720 --> 1:01:12.800
<v Speaker 1>real Michael or R. M. Found work as a laborer

1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:17.960
<v Speaker 1>and driver delivery a delivery driver at an engineering company,

1:01:18.200 --> 1:01:20.520
<v Speaker 1>where he demonstrated a little common sense.

1:01:21.040 --> 1:01:23.560
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, do we assume he changed his name to kind

1:01:23.600 --> 1:01:26.800
<v Speaker 2>of not be associated with those pasts.

1:01:27.080 --> 1:01:28.960
<v Speaker 1>If it was for that or if it was just

1:01:28.960 --> 1:01:31.520
<v Speaker 1>because he thought that was quite cool, right. He was

1:01:31.560 --> 1:01:34.720
<v Speaker 1>described as a quiet man who mostly kept to himself.

1:01:36.040 --> 1:01:42.160
<v Speaker 1>Michael Donovan was actually Craig Meehan's uncle. Oh, Karen and

1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:46.440
<v Speaker 1>Craig had never mentioned Michael when talking about the family tree,

1:01:46.840 --> 1:01:49.040
<v Speaker 1>so he was actually never investigated.

1:01:49.080 --> 1:01:50.960
<v Speaker 2>So they did a family tree of three hundred and

1:01:51.000 --> 1:01:56.280
<v Speaker 2>fifty and even Yeah, that's how big the family were.

1:01:56.360 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and he was weirdly never he actually never turned

1:01:59.640 --> 1:02:02.960
<v Speaker 1>up for any of the searchers for Shannon strange since

1:02:02.960 --> 1:02:05.160
<v Speaker 1>he was part of the family and didn't live very

1:02:05.200 --> 1:02:09.520
<v Speaker 1>far away. Karen and Michael had actually met the previous

1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:14.640
<v Speaker 1>November at the wake for Craig's father. Karen and Michael

1:02:14.680 --> 1:02:17.120
<v Speaker 1>hit it off when drinking beer in the kitchen after

1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:20.800
<v Speaker 1>the service. Another member of the family walked in when

1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Karen was sitting on Michael's knee, allegedly falling all over him.

1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Rumors started to spread about Karen having an affair with Michael,

1:02:31.560 --> 1:02:34.400
<v Speaker 1>did he have something to do with the disappearance of

1:02:34.480 --> 1:02:38.360
<v Speaker 1>Shannon to get some kind of sick revenge on Craig

1:02:38.600 --> 1:02:44.680
<v Speaker 1>or Karen. On the morning of March fourteenth Police Poetry's

1:02:44.680 --> 1:02:50.040
<v Speaker 1>birthday planned on chatting to Michael Donovan. He could have

1:02:50.160 --> 1:02:53.640
<v Speaker 1>just been left off the family tree by mistake. So

1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Michael only lived five minutes away from the Matthews house.

1:02:58.200 --> 1:03:00.280
<v Speaker 2>So then he would have been doing if they were

1:03:00.320 --> 1:03:04.560
<v Speaker 2>doing exactly, he definitely would have been door knocked in

1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:06.160
<v Speaker 2>and I seem spoken to.

1:03:06.360 --> 1:03:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Detective Paul Kenilwell and Nick Townsend got to Michael's

1:03:11.440 --> 1:03:14.920
<v Speaker 1>home and knocked on the door, but there was no answer.

1:03:15.760 --> 1:03:19.560
<v Speaker 1>These detectives themselves were very connected the case. To the case,

1:03:19.840 --> 1:03:23.880
<v Speaker 1>they'd spoken to over seven hundred people themselves. A neighbor

1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:26.280
<v Speaker 1>stuck the head out of the window and told them

1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:29.800
<v Speaker 1>that Michael never answered the door. His car was outside,

1:03:29.840 --> 1:03:33.560
<v Speaker 1>so was probably home. Michael never went anywhere without his car.

1:03:34.520 --> 1:03:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Detectives asked if the lady had heard anything odd coming

1:03:38.680 --> 1:03:42.600
<v Speaker 1>from his house. She said, yeah, she had. She'd heard

1:03:42.640 --> 1:03:48.080
<v Speaker 1>footsteps sometimes, but they'd been little footsteps, possibly those of

1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:48.920
<v Speaker 1>a child.

1:03:49.720 --> 1:03:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, you've heard that for some guy who never comes

1:03:53.240 --> 1:03:54.640
<v Speaker 2>out of his house and you're not.

1:03:54.840 --> 1:03:56.640
<v Speaker 1>But he had a kid as well. I haven't said this,

1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:58.680
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, yeah, he had a kid as well. This

1:03:58.840 --> 1:04:02.720
<v Speaker 1>was enough for detectives though the knocks weren't working, so

1:04:02.800 --> 1:04:05.600
<v Speaker 1>they decided to force their way in and called for backup.

1:04:06.440 --> 1:04:13.600
<v Speaker 1>The house was eerily silent until something really weird happened.

1:04:13.840 --> 1:04:15.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I feel so anxious.

1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:20.240
<v Speaker 1>One of the officers, Nick, heard a little girl's voice say,

1:04:21.080 --> 1:04:26.600
<v Speaker 1>stop it, you're frightening me. But where was the voice

1:04:26.680 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 1>coming from? As Nick moved around the house, he thought

1:04:30.640 --> 1:04:33.240
<v Speaker 1>that the voice was coming from the base of a

1:04:33.280 --> 1:04:38.320
<v Speaker 1>double bed. He bent down out of an impossibly small

1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:44.640
<v Speaker 1>hole wriggled out a scruffy, scared and tearful Shannon Matthew.

1:04:46.080 --> 1:04:51.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm Shannon, she told Nick Townsend. Nick Townsend burst into

1:04:51.600 --> 1:04:54.960
<v Speaker 1>tears as he took her outside to the police car.

1:04:56.000 --> 1:04:58.120
<v Speaker 1>It was the middle of the day, Sammy.

1:04:58.240 --> 1:05:01.200
<v Speaker 2>When you said earlier and you went when she was found,

1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:03.640
<v Speaker 2>and you went like that, I just isn't that awful?

1:05:03.640 --> 1:05:04.680
<v Speaker 2>I just assumed that.

1:05:06.360 --> 1:05:10.080
<v Speaker 1>So both policemen had thought they'll be coming out of

1:05:10.120 --> 1:05:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the house of the body. The detectives asked where Michael

1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:17.880
<v Speaker 1>Donovan was, and Shannon said, he's where I was. He's

1:05:17.920 --> 1:05:18.479
<v Speaker 1>under the bed.

1:05:18.760 --> 1:05:20.960
<v Speaker 2>What are you talking about? What is happening?

1:05:21.120 --> 1:05:24.840
<v Speaker 1>And he was Michael Donovan was lying under the bed

1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:40.560
<v Speaker 1>in the fetal position. News spread like wildfire.

1:05:40.920 --> 1:05:42.120
<v Speaker 2>You can't just move on from now.

1:05:42.200 --> 1:05:43.560
<v Speaker 1>We are going to move on. We're gonna come back.

1:05:44.120 --> 1:05:50.160
<v Speaker 1>People were overjoyed, especially Julie Bushby. No one was expecting

1:05:50.200 --> 1:05:53.760
<v Speaker 1>it at all. Karen Matthews did not cry. She was

1:05:53.800 --> 1:05:58.280
<v Speaker 1>taken to the station by two point thirty pm. She

1:05:58.360 --> 1:06:03.120
<v Speaker 1>didn't really know what to do, but Karen confirmed that

1:06:03.160 --> 1:06:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the girl behind the glass that she saw was her daughter, Shannon.

1:06:07.760 --> 1:06:11.600
<v Speaker 1>The joyful reunion photograph didn't happen because police said to

1:06:11.600 --> 1:06:14.640
<v Speaker 1>protect forensic evidence, that she couldn't see her ride away.

1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that would be just impossible.

1:06:18.600 --> 1:06:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Karen and Craig walked outside of their home three reporters

1:06:22.600 --> 1:06:26.760
<v Speaker 1>and kissed each other. Julie Bushby told them to smile

1:06:26.800 --> 1:06:29.240
<v Speaker 1>to the cameras, and they turned back and let out

1:06:29.400 --> 1:06:32.680
<v Speaker 1>like a big smile. So Julie Bushby, yeah, I know.

1:06:33.760 --> 1:06:38.200
<v Speaker 1>A week after Shannon was found, Craig and Karen throw

1:06:38.200 --> 1:06:43.040
<v Speaker 1>a party to celebrate. Karen told Julie Bushby that she

1:06:43.080 --> 1:06:46.320
<v Speaker 1>had seen Shannon through a window and nothing more. But

1:06:46.440 --> 1:06:50.520
<v Speaker 1>now the estate was going Is she okay? Is she

1:06:50.560 --> 1:06:51.160
<v Speaker 1>going to come back?

1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:51.720
<v Speaker 2>A week later?

1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:52.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:06:52.880 --> 1:06:53.840
<v Speaker 2>What is happening?

1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:57.080
<v Speaker 1>The community who had spent weeks looking for Shannon, were

1:06:57.360 --> 1:07:02.480
<v Speaker 1>extremely worried. The next reporter that Shannon was actually doing well.

1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:08.240
<v Speaker 1>They were starting to establish what had happened. Specifically, trained

1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:13.320
<v Speaker 1>officers were gently questioning Shannon to establish what had occurred.

1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:17.000
<v Speaker 1>In the weeks that followed, she would have daily ten

1:07:17.040 --> 1:07:20.480
<v Speaker 1>minute question times at a special suite in a classroom

1:07:20.520 --> 1:07:25.440
<v Speaker 1>at school. When Shannon was no longer held by police,

1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:29.160
<v Speaker 1>she was then held by family services. She was then

1:07:29.240 --> 1:07:32.760
<v Speaker 1>moved from the area. Neighbors were shocked when they saw

1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Michael being taken away. He was dragged on his knees,

1:07:36.120 --> 1:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>refusing to get into the police car. Neighbors he hurled

1:07:39.800 --> 1:07:43.040
<v Speaker 1>abuse at him. He yelled, don't hate me, I'm a

1:07:43.040 --> 1:07:43.720
<v Speaker 1>poorly man.

1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:48.080
<v Speaker 2>What is going on? I feel really yucky.

1:07:48.440 --> 1:07:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Shannon sat safely in the back of the police car.

1:07:51.480 --> 1:07:54.160
<v Speaker 1>The detectives took a moment to shake each other's hands.

1:07:54.680 --> 1:07:57.680
<v Speaker 1>They told Shannon that everything was going to be okay.

1:07:58.520 --> 1:08:01.320
<v Speaker 1>When the detective he has called the station to say

1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.240
<v Speaker 1>that Shannon had been found, he assumed they meant a body.

1:08:05.160 --> 1:08:08.400
<v Speaker 1>No one expected her to be safe. After weeks missing

1:08:09.160 --> 1:08:12.800
<v Speaker 1>under Michael's bed, where he was hiding The police found

1:08:12.800 --> 1:08:16.799
<v Speaker 1>a copy of the Sun newspaper advertising the now fifty

1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:21.519
<v Speaker 1>thousand pounds reward and a prescription for tamazapam. He was

1:08:21.560 --> 1:08:25.519
<v Speaker 1>taken to the Halifax Police station to be questioned. Shannon

1:08:25.600 --> 1:08:28.320
<v Speaker 1>was given a coloring book and some pencils at the station.

1:08:29.160 --> 1:08:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I just I want to do, you know,

1:08:33.040 --> 1:08:34.880
<v Speaker 2>I said before. I feel like I'm reading a book.

1:08:35.160 --> 1:08:36.679
<v Speaker 2>I want to flick to the end, just to see

1:08:36.680 --> 1:08:39.280
<v Speaker 2>the end and then come back and read the rest.

1:08:39.600 --> 1:08:42.800
<v Speaker 1>Police searched Michael's house and discovered a long strip of

1:08:42.880 --> 1:08:47.040
<v Speaker 1>fabric emerging from a manhole in the hallway. When they

1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:50.400
<v Speaker 1>found it, they found it had been secured to a beam.

1:08:51.000 --> 1:08:54.200
<v Speaker 1>The other end had been tied around Shannon's waist to

1:08:54.280 --> 1:08:57.160
<v Speaker 1>limit her movement inside the house when Michael went out.

1:08:58.120 --> 1:09:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Officers also found a written list of rules. You must

1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:08.200
<v Speaker 1>not make any noise or bang your feet. You must

1:09:08.280 --> 1:09:12.520
<v Speaker 1>not go near the windows. You must not let anything

1:09:12.880 --> 1:09:17.160
<v Speaker 1>or do anything without me being here. Keep the volume low,

1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:22.080
<v Speaker 1>only eight or lower. You can play the Super Mario games,

1:09:22.360 --> 1:09:24.840
<v Speaker 1>and you can play some DVDs, and you can play

1:09:24.880 --> 1:09:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the CD music. The note was signed the letters IPU,

1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:34.679
<v Speaker 1>meaning I promise you Shannon had been reading a child's

1:09:34.720 --> 1:09:40.519
<v Speaker 1>magazine called Arrive Alive. Oh Wow, that's crazy, a colorful

1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:45.720
<v Speaker 1>publication about traveling safely and choosing the safest roots. In

1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:50.560
<v Speaker 1>the bedroom, two bags were packed with clothes, suggesting preparations

1:09:50.560 --> 1:09:54.559
<v Speaker 1>to leave. Michael had faced an allegation of abducting his

1:09:54.600 --> 1:09:56.800
<v Speaker 1>own daughter the previous year.

1:09:56.920 --> 1:09:59.479
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, why did it take?

1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:05.439
<v Speaker 1>Though the matter was later withdrawn after social services intervened,

1:10:05.479 --> 1:10:07.280
<v Speaker 1>which is probably why we didn't hear it through the courts.

1:10:07.600 --> 1:10:10.559
<v Speaker 1>Police believed he was preparing to flee and take Shannon

1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:15.439
<v Speaker 1>with him. Leon, Shannon's father, said it felt like winning

1:10:15.439 --> 1:10:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the lottery when he heard the news. Julie Bushby ran

1:10:19.840 --> 1:10:22.960
<v Speaker 1>through the estate shouting that Shannon had been found.

1:10:23.760 --> 1:10:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Julie chill, bab yeah.

1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Neighbors hugged one another, shaking their heads in disbelief. Overwhelmed

1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:36.280
<v Speaker 1>that she was safe. Karen initially stood frozen before breaking

1:10:36.320 --> 1:10:41.360
<v Speaker 1>down in tears, followed by Craig. Police officers were celebrating, too,

1:10:42.000 --> 1:10:45.160
<v Speaker 1>one describing the moment as like anything they had ever

1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:51.160
<v Speaker 1>experienced before. News footage showed Karen and Craig looking stunned.

1:10:51.600 --> 1:10:55.479
<v Speaker 1>At one point, Julie shouted smile woman. Why isn't she smiling?

1:10:56.200 --> 1:11:00.840
<v Speaker 1>For God's sake? Karen, smile God, Julie, She's controlling the

1:11:00.880 --> 1:11:03.680
<v Speaker 1>whole thing. Karen turns towards the camera and forced a

1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:07.200
<v Speaker 1>smile as sheeers erupted inside the home.

1:11:08.760 --> 1:11:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I feel so anxious.

1:11:10.800 --> 1:11:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Police gathered from across the area, pulling down missing posters,

1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:19.000
<v Speaker 1>ripping them in half, and dancing in the streets. The

1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:24.080
<v Speaker 1>community believed it had actually brought Shannon home. The search

1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:29.040
<v Speaker 1>had cost three point two million pounds and involved more

1:11:29.080 --> 1:11:31.080
<v Speaker 1>than three hundred officers.

1:11:30.680 --> 1:11:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Which doesn't matter if your child has been exactated.

1:11:33.560 --> 1:11:36.719
<v Speaker 1>When police formally confirmed they had found her, Craig wept,

1:11:36.760 --> 1:11:40.080
<v Speaker 1>while Karen turned away, trying to be strong and conceal

1:11:40.160 --> 1:11:44.200
<v Speaker 1>her emotions from her other children. Officers offered to drive

1:11:44.360 --> 1:11:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Karen and Craig to the station, and Karen gathered her belongings.

1:11:48.800 --> 1:11:53.719
<v Speaker 1>There was so much to absorb. How could Michael Donovan

1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:59.400
<v Speaker 1>be responsible? And why? Questions raised through their minds on

1:11:59.439 --> 1:12:04.080
<v Speaker 1>the journey. But the story does not end there.

1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Better not. I've got questions myself.

1:12:07.120 --> 1:12:12.480
<v Speaker 1>At the station, Sharon appeared calm but confused, seemingly overwhelmed

1:12:12.479 --> 1:12:16.160
<v Speaker 1>by the attention and unsure of what was actually happening.

1:12:16.880 --> 1:12:19.599
<v Speaker 1>When Karen arrived, she was told that she and Craig

1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:23.120
<v Speaker 1>could not see Shannon face to face because forensic evidence

1:12:23.160 --> 1:12:27.080
<v Speaker 1>had to be preserved. Shannon was placed in emergency care

1:12:27.280 --> 1:12:32.320
<v Speaker 1>under police protection for seventy two hours while investigations continued.

1:12:32.360 --> 1:12:34.479
<v Speaker 1>They had to be thorough. They didn't want to kind

1:12:34.479 --> 1:12:36.400
<v Speaker 1>of risk the same thing with Madelie McCann. They were

1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:38.080
<v Speaker 1>very I think they are very set on that.

1:12:38.479 --> 1:12:40.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel like, I mean, I don't know where this

1:12:40.080 --> 1:12:41.760
<v Speaker 2>is going, so I don't know if they're thinking the

1:12:41.840 --> 1:12:46.120
<v Speaker 2>parents might or Craig and Karen might, like I don't know,

1:12:46.280 --> 1:12:49.720
<v Speaker 2>have something be involved in it somehow, But if not,

1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:54.200
<v Speaker 2>it feels particularly cruel to not let hug her mom

1:12:54.280 --> 1:12:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and vice versa far out.

1:12:56.560 --> 1:13:00.280
<v Speaker 1>She would not return home until inquiries were Completearon and

1:13:00.320 --> 1:13:02.840
<v Speaker 1>Craig were taken to a hotel for the night, both

1:13:02.880 --> 1:13:05.280
<v Speaker 1>to rest and to avoid the press. At their house.

1:13:06.560 --> 1:13:11.200
<v Speaker 1>At school, children burst into tears upon hearing that Shannon

1:13:11.360 --> 1:13:16.439
<v Speaker 1>was alive. The estate celebrated late into the night, of course,

1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:19.480
<v Speaker 1>led by Julie Bushby.

1:13:19.080 --> 1:13:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Who is this Julie?

1:13:20.320 --> 1:13:24.479
<v Speaker 1>I kind of love her. Local shops donated champagne. One

1:13:24.560 --> 1:13:30.280
<v Speaker 1>resident set up strobe lights and crowds chanted Shannon's name. Initially,

1:13:30.560 --> 1:13:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Michael Donovan refused to speak. When he did make a statement,

1:13:35.640 --> 1:13:39.479
<v Speaker 1>he claimed he was not acting alone. He alleged that

1:13:39.600 --> 1:13:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Karen Matthews had been involved and they had planned to

1:13:43.960 --> 1:13:45.519
<v Speaker 1>split the reward money.

1:13:45.560 --> 1:13:47.800
<v Speaker 2>Nope, nope, nope, nope. I don't like that. Take that

1:13:47.880 --> 1:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>back immediately and change that. I don't like that.

1:13:50.479 --> 1:13:53.640
<v Speaker 1>According to Michael, he and Karen had agreed that he

1:13:53.640 --> 1:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>would stage the aductions of one of her children, choosing

1:13:57.080 --> 1:14:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Shannon because they believed her disappearance would fetch the highest reward. Karen,

1:14:04.240 --> 1:14:08.120
<v Speaker 1>he said, expected the fund to grow significantly just look

1:14:08.120 --> 1:14:11.559
<v Speaker 1>at Madela mccairn no, and planned for Shannon to remain

1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:16.679
<v Speaker 1>hidden until it reached a substantial sum no, after which

1:14:16.960 --> 1:14:20.760
<v Speaker 1>they would divide the money. Michael claimed that when the

1:14:20.840 --> 1:14:25.840
<v Speaker 1>reward reached fifty pounds, he stopped hearing from Karen, who

1:14:25.880 --> 1:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>had said she would provide further instructions.

1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:14:30.880 --> 1:14:33.559
<v Speaker 1>He also alleged that he felt pressured to follow her

1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:39.440
<v Speaker 1>directions because she had threatened him with violence, referring acquaintances

1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:43.880
<v Speaker 1>of hers with criminal histories. He insisted he did not

1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:47.040
<v Speaker 1>harm Shannon, saying he cared for her and brought her

1:14:47.080 --> 1:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>new clothes and toys. He had his own daughter, he

1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:54.080
<v Speaker 1>did not harm her. When Karen finally saw Shannon through

1:14:54.240 --> 1:14:58.719
<v Speaker 1>a glass petition at the station, she showed no emotion. No.

1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Only repeatedly was that Shannon was wearing new clothes. No.

1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:08.960
<v Speaker 1>On March two thousand and eight, three days after Shannon

1:15:09.240 --> 1:15:13.880
<v Speaker 1>was found, Michael Donovan was formally charged with kidnapping and

1:15:13.960 --> 1:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>false imprisonment. He was remanded in custody and later appeared

1:15:19.080 --> 1:15:22.439
<v Speaker 1>at the Leeds Crown Court via video link. A trial

1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:26.679
<v Speaker 1>date was sent was set for eleventh of November, eight

1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>months later. Back on the estate, some neighbors began voicing

1:15:32.120 --> 1:15:35.040
<v Speaker 1>concerns about Karen's behavior. Do you I guess who one

1:15:35.040 --> 1:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>of the neighbors was.

1:15:38.080 --> 1:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>She's like a character that's been written in as the

1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:46.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of almost unofficial, not the narration if you are

1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:47.559
<v Speaker 2>what you get home.

1:15:47.680 --> 1:15:50.719
<v Speaker 1>She's had the voice of the people. They wondered whether

1:15:50.760 --> 1:15:54.400
<v Speaker 1>the strain had become too much. Shannon had still not

1:15:54.520 --> 1:15:57.800
<v Speaker 1>returned home, which looked really weird. Yet Karen did not

1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>appear outwardly distressed about the in fact, she wasn't asking

1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:02.160
<v Speaker 1>any questions.

1:16:02.240 --> 1:16:03.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:16:03.560 --> 1:16:08.160
<v Speaker 1>She asked few questions and showed little visible anger towards Donovan,

1:16:08.840 --> 1:16:10.880
<v Speaker 1>who was her boyfriend's uncle.

1:16:11.120 --> 1:16:13.439
<v Speaker 2>After all, it doesn't matter who it is if someone

1:16:13.439 --> 1:16:16.360
<v Speaker 2>has taken your child. Oh my god.

1:16:16.680 --> 1:16:20.960
<v Speaker 1>In hindsight, some residents reflected on what they had described

1:16:21.040 --> 1:16:25.240
<v Speaker 1>as erratic shift in behavior. In fact, Karen was still

1:16:25.280 --> 1:16:29.720
<v Speaker 1>partying most nights while Shannon had disappeared, relaxed and even

1:16:29.840 --> 1:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>laughing with Craig when cameras were absence, but adopting the

1:16:34.000 --> 1:16:38.320
<v Speaker 1>role of a distraught mother when media crews arrived. At

1:16:38.360 --> 1:16:43.280
<v Speaker 1>the time, however, most people were preoccupied with actually finding Shannon.

1:16:44.040 --> 1:16:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Police informed Karen and Craig that Shannon could not return

1:16:47.160 --> 1:16:51.679
<v Speaker 1>home until interviews and medical examinations were complete, including check

1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:57.120
<v Speaker 1>for any signs of abuse. Karen reported the responded okay,

1:16:57.560 --> 1:16:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and did not pass on any messages to Ship.

1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Even I said, that's so cruel that they have the

1:17:03.160 --> 1:17:03.800
<v Speaker 2>mom see her.

1:17:04.680 --> 1:17:08.240
<v Speaker 1>Police issued a public statement explaining that Shannon had been

1:17:08.240 --> 1:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>placed under emergency Police Protection order. An emergency police protection

1:17:14.200 --> 1:17:17.760
<v Speaker 1>order while they established the full facts of her disappearance,

1:17:18.360 --> 1:17:22.080
<v Speaker 1>they stress that her welfare remain their primary concern and

1:17:22.120 --> 1:17:26.799
<v Speaker 1>that the process could take time. Behind the scenes, however,

1:17:27.200 --> 1:17:32.799
<v Speaker 1>investigators were also assessing serious allegations made by Michael Donovan.

1:17:32.920 --> 1:17:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they'd have to be because they can't like it.

1:17:34.760 --> 1:17:35.600
<v Speaker 1>They can't just let that go.

1:17:35.840 --> 1:17:38.960
<v Speaker 2>And it also wouldn't I don't think it would take

1:17:39.000 --> 1:17:42.799
<v Speaker 2>that long to have like the like the DNA testing

1:17:42.840 --> 1:17:44.360
<v Speaker 2>and stuff done to then be able.

1:17:44.160 --> 1:17:47.320
<v Speaker 1>To let the exactly hug their child.

1:17:47.040 --> 1:17:47.799
<v Speaker 2>And vice versa.

1:17:48.000 --> 1:17:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Further complications soon emerged. Craig, Karen's boyfriend, had been

1:17:53.680 --> 1:17:59.120
<v Speaker 1>arrested after officers searching for Shannon examined his computer and

1:17:59.200 --> 1:18:02.200
<v Speaker 1>allegedly discovered indecent images of children.

1:18:02.560 --> 1:18:03.320
<v Speaker 2>What the fuck.

1:18:03.479 --> 1:18:07.320
<v Speaker 1>He was formally charged the following day with eleven offenses.

1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Soon after, his sister Amanda, who lived next door, was

1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:16.000
<v Speaker 1>arrested on suspicion of assisting an offender, and his mother, Alisia,

1:18:16.040 --> 1:18:19.679
<v Speaker 1>who was also Michael Donovan's sister, was arrested on suspicion

1:18:19.680 --> 1:18:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of attempting to pervert the course of justice. Both women

1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:24.920
<v Speaker 1>were later released on bail.

1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

1:18:26.600 --> 1:18:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Frustration grew among Karen's friends as rumors circulated across the estate.

1:18:32.520 --> 1:18:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Julie Bushby and her friend Natalie, decided to confront Karen.

1:18:38.439 --> 1:18:42.240
<v Speaker 1>They contacted a police officer, Christine Freeman, and said they

1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>intended to press Karen for answers. Freeman agreed to assist,

1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>so they picked up Karen in her car, with Karen

1:18:50.080 --> 1:18:54.480
<v Speaker 1>sitting in the front passenger seat and before collecting Julie

1:18:54.520 --> 1:18:59.000
<v Speaker 1>and Natalie. During the drive Julian Natalie told Karen about

1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the speculation in the community and directly asked whether she

1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>had known where Shannon was all along. Karen began to

1:19:07.080 --> 1:19:12.240
<v Speaker 1>sob it's true. She said, it's true. She was arrested

1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:14.120
<v Speaker 1>shortly afterwards.

1:19:14.200 --> 1:19:19.400
<v Speaker 2>She just completely folded toe and Natalie. Yeah, after all

1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:22.639
<v Speaker 2>of that, it was Julie that God had, Oh my God.

1:19:23.080 --> 1:19:25.960
<v Speaker 1>On the sixth of April two thousand and eight, forty

1:19:26.080 --> 1:19:30.640
<v Speaker 1>seven days after Shannon's disappearance, Karen Matthews was arrested on

1:19:30.680 --> 1:19:34.439
<v Speaker 1>suspicion of perverting the courst of justice and child neglect.

1:19:35.280 --> 1:19:40.000
<v Speaker 1>An investigation was also launched into the role of social services,

1:19:40.080 --> 1:19:44.120
<v Speaker 1>examining whether Moore had could have been done to safeguard

1:19:44.160 --> 1:19:45.759
<v Speaker 1>her children from her.

1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh My God.

1:19:47.760 --> 1:19:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Karen had previously made critical public comments about the family

1:19:51.720 --> 1:19:56.599
<v Speaker 1>of Madeline McCann, accusing them of being privileged and financially secure.

1:19:57.360 --> 1:20:00.280
<v Speaker 1>It later emerged that a call had been made from

1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:05.599
<v Speaker 1>the Matthews home to the McCann fund requesting financial assistance What.

1:20:05.880 --> 1:20:07.799
<v Speaker 1>The request was denied.

1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:11.799
<v Speaker 2>While Shannon was missing, they called the Madeline McCann twice

1:20:12.240 --> 1:20:14.639
<v Speaker 2>and said, you've got lots of money for the search

1:20:14.680 --> 1:20:18.680
<v Speaker 2>for your for this child. Can we have some for yeah.

1:20:18.760 --> 1:20:22.120
<v Speaker 1>A spokesperson said the approach had been blunt, suggesting that

1:20:22.160 --> 1:20:25.200
<v Speaker 1>Madeline's family had plenty of money and that they should

1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:28.400
<v Speaker 1>and some should go to Shannon. Although the McCanns were

1:20:28.439 --> 1:20:32.879
<v Speaker 1>reportedly distressed by Shannon's disappearance and had considered offering support,

1:20:33.200 --> 1:20:36.840
<v Speaker 1>police advised them not to as Karen had actually come

1:20:36.920 --> 1:20:42.639
<v Speaker 1>under scrutiny really early in the investigation WHOA. Police believe

1:20:42.800 --> 1:20:47.799
<v Speaker 1>Karen had been influenced by the disappearance of Madeline McCann What.

1:20:48.400 --> 1:20:51.920
<v Speaker 1>According to Michael Donovan, the plan was to release Shannon

1:20:52.280 --> 1:20:56.879
<v Speaker 1>at Jewsbury Market, where he would find her by chance

1:20:57.080 --> 1:21:02.400
<v Speaker 1>in view of CCTV cameras, providing apparent proof to claim

1:21:02.600 --> 1:21:08.160
<v Speaker 1>the reward. Although Karen and Michael later gave conflicting accounts,

1:21:08.520 --> 1:21:12.439
<v Speaker 1>Investigators were able to reconstruct a timeline from elements of

1:21:12.600 --> 1:21:17.400
<v Speaker 1>both statements. Police established that Karen and Michael met at

1:21:17.400 --> 1:21:22.240
<v Speaker 1>a small cafe in the days before Shannon vanished. Karen

1:21:22.320 --> 1:21:25.880
<v Speaker 1>arrived with her younger daughter and outlined her plan over

1:21:26.000 --> 1:21:29.559
<v Speaker 1>a cup of tea. She said she would report Sharon

1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:34.720
<v Speaker 1>missing and once a reward reached fifty thousand pounds, she

1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:39.440
<v Speaker 1>would contact him. She reportedly believed the money would accumulate

1:21:39.520 --> 1:21:44.080
<v Speaker 1>within days. Karen handed Michael a printed sheet detailing the

1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:48.200
<v Speaker 1>plan and instructed him to dispose of it. Michael later

1:21:48.240 --> 1:21:53.160
<v Speaker 1>claimed he only agreed after she threatened him. Karen never

1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:57.640
<v Speaker 1>formally omitted her role in the offense. When news with

1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:03.240
<v Speaker 1>her arrests spread, many local Residsdence felt deeply portrayed. Her

1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:06.680
<v Speaker 1>home was vandalized and eventually boarded up with metal screens.

1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Her other children were taken into care. Shannon remained under

1:22:12.080 --> 1:22:16.719
<v Speaker 1>the supervision of Kirkley's Children Services and was later moved

1:22:16.720 --> 1:22:20.439
<v Speaker 1>out of the Jewsberry area. She never returned home to

1:22:20.520 --> 1:22:23.599
<v Speaker 1>the estate, and her friend said it felt as though

1:22:23.760 --> 1:22:25.280
<v Speaker 1>they lost her all over again.

1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:28.479
<v Speaker 2>What about her biological dad. There must have been reasons, Yeah.

1:22:28.360 --> 1:22:32.320
<v Speaker 1>There has been reasons there, Yeah, Meanwhile, Craig was convicted

1:22:32.360 --> 1:22:36.040
<v Speaker 1>of eleven counts of possessing indecent images of children, all

1:22:36.080 --> 1:22:38.599
<v Speaker 1>found on his computer. He was sentenced at twenty weeks

1:22:38.600 --> 1:22:39.040
<v Speaker 1>in prison.

1:22:39.160 --> 1:22:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Twenty weeks.

1:22:39.960 --> 1:22:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Twenty weeks yeah, oh my god. But actually it'd spent

1:22:42.920 --> 1:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>more than that in Roman, so he was actually released

1:22:45.080 --> 1:22:45.599
<v Speaker 1>straight away.

1:22:46.240 --> 1:22:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Having eleven counts of having child exploitation materials. Well, that's fucked.

1:22:52.560 --> 1:22:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Karen and Michael were tried together beginning on the eleventh

1:22:57.120 --> 1:23:00.800
<v Speaker 1>of November two thousand and eight. The trial asked just

1:23:00.920 --> 1:23:07.519
<v Speaker 1>over three weeks. Observers noted that neither displayed visible emotion

1:23:07.680 --> 1:23:12.519
<v Speaker 1>as proceedings began. The prosecution described Karen as manipulative and

1:23:12.640 --> 1:23:16.480
<v Speaker 1>as honest, arguing that the disappearance had been a calculated

1:23:16.520 --> 1:23:20.840
<v Speaker 1>deception designed to generate reward money. The court heard that

1:23:20.880 --> 1:23:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Shannon had been lured with the promise of going to

1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:30.120
<v Speaker 1>affair and was then confined. Michael denied mistreating her, claiming

1:23:30.120 --> 1:23:32.719
<v Speaker 1>he bought her clothes and took her on evening walks

1:23:32.760 --> 1:23:37.200
<v Speaker 1>with her face concealed by a hoodie. However, evidence emerged

1:23:37.439 --> 1:23:40.679
<v Speaker 1>of the strap used to restrain her while on remand

1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:44.479
<v Speaker 1>Michael was assaulted several times by other inmates, and appeared

1:23:44.560 --> 1:23:49.560
<v Speaker 1>in court with a broken jaw. A forensic toxicologist testified

1:23:49.600 --> 1:23:54.080
<v Speaker 1>that hair samples indicated Shannon had been given travel sickness

1:23:54.120 --> 1:23:57.800
<v Speaker 1>medication and to Mazapan to sedate her while she was

1:23:57.800 --> 1:24:02.760
<v Speaker 1>locked up. Test she may have been administered each substances

1:24:02.840 --> 1:24:08.320
<v Speaker 1>over an extended period, leaving her drowsy and disorientated. On

1:24:08.360 --> 1:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the twenty seventh of November, Karen gave evidence, frequently breaking

1:24:12.960 --> 1:24:15.960
<v Speaker 1>down in tears. She claimed she was frightened of Craig

1:24:16.160 --> 1:24:20.200
<v Speaker 1>and said he urged her to take responsibility. Over the

1:24:20.240 --> 1:24:25.559
<v Speaker 1>course of testimony, she offered multiple differing accounts. The inconsistencies

1:24:25.960 --> 1:24:30.080
<v Speaker 1>undermined her credibility no shit. Both Karen and Michael were

1:24:30.080 --> 1:24:33.280
<v Speaker 1>found guilty of perverting the course of justice, kidnapping, and

1:24:33.360 --> 1:24:37.240
<v Speaker 1>false imprisonment. Each was sentenced to eight years in prison

1:24:37.439 --> 1:24:43.479
<v Speaker 1>eight eight years that's it. During her incarceration, Julie Bushby

1:24:43.880 --> 1:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>remained Karen's only regular visitor, hoping to understand her motives.

1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:50.240
<v Speaker 2>She was so obsessed with.

1:24:51.280 --> 1:24:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Karen continued to deny involvement. Reports suggested she was assaulted

1:24:55.600 --> 1:25:00.160
<v Speaker 1>in prison, sometimes meeting Julie with visible injuries.

1:25:00.320 --> 1:25:02.280
<v Speaker 2>So she denied she was involved at all. Did she

1:25:02.360 --> 1:25:03.520
<v Speaker 2>try to pin the whole.

1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Thing on Craig?

1:25:04.680 --> 1:25:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Craig and Michael organized it together.

1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:13.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah. Julie kept detailed notes of their conversations, later

1:25:13.120 --> 1:25:18.200
<v Speaker 1>saying that Karen's version of events changed repeatedly, even to her.

1:25:18.880 --> 1:25:23.800
<v Speaker 1>In twenty ten, Social Services issued a statement concluding that

1:25:23.880 --> 1:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>there had been no clear indication that such events could

1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:32.799
<v Speaker 1>have been foreseen. Karen and Michael released in March twenty twelve,

1:25:33.720 --> 1:25:36.760
<v Speaker 1>after only searching half of it, only serving half of

1:25:36.760 --> 1:25:37.280
<v Speaker 1>their sentence.

1:25:37.360 --> 1:25:40.280
<v Speaker 2>He's gonna say, what the hell. Yeah, that's not even

1:25:40.479 --> 1:25:43.839
<v Speaker 2>that's not even four years. Oh my god.

1:25:44.280 --> 1:25:48.080
<v Speaker 1>Four years later, when Karen was released from prison, she

1:25:48.200 --> 1:25:51.080
<v Speaker 1>was driven in a private vehicle to a woman's hostel.

1:25:52.280 --> 1:25:56.200
<v Speaker 1>She underwent a makeover and was provided with a new identity.

1:25:56.960 --> 1:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Despite the precautions, at least one onlooker claimed to recognize

1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:06.479
<v Speaker 1>her immediately, remarking that the level of preparation for her

1:26:06.520 --> 1:26:11.960
<v Speaker 1>abilitation seemed extraordinary, as though she were the victim rather

1:26:12.000 --> 1:26:16.439
<v Speaker 1>than the perpetrator of the crime. Shannon Matthews and her

1:26:16.479 --> 1:26:19.960
<v Speaker 1>siblings were also given new identities and placed with different

1:26:19.960 --> 1:26:24.599
<v Speaker 1>families for their own protection. Shannon never ever returned home.

1:26:24.640 --> 1:26:27.600
<v Speaker 1>She never returned to the estate or to the area,

1:26:27.680 --> 1:26:30.320
<v Speaker 1>and did not see her former friends or neighbors again.

1:26:31.320 --> 1:26:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Questions were raised about why Shannon's biological father, Leon or

1:26:35.760 --> 1:26:39.360
<v Speaker 1>her grandparents were not in fact granted custody, though the

1:26:39.439 --> 1:26:43.960
<v Speaker 1>specific legal and welfare considerations behind those decisions have never

1:26:44.040 --> 1:26:50.120
<v Speaker 1>ever been publicly detailed. Shannon's grandfather, Gordon, spoke openly about

1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:53.840
<v Speaker 1>his heartbreaking at losing contact with her for a second time.

1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:58.160
<v Speaker 1>He and his wife June, occasionally receive updates or photographs

1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>through officials channels, and said she looked well and beautiful.

1:27:03.680 --> 1:27:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Direct contact, however, did not resume. Gordon expressed the hope

1:27:07.960 --> 1:27:10.719
<v Speaker 1>that one day, when she was old enough to fully

1:27:10.800 --> 1:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>understand what had happened, she might one day knock on

1:27:14.000 --> 1:27:17.240
<v Speaker 1>that door, though he feared he might not live to

1:27:17.280 --> 1:27:21.160
<v Speaker 1>see that day. It also emerged that in the weeks

1:27:21.200 --> 1:27:25.559
<v Speaker 1>after Shannon disappeared, Karen had appeared on television with a

1:27:25.600 --> 1:27:29.280
<v Speaker 1>psychic who claimed the child had been taken by someone

1:27:29.680 --> 1:27:33.320
<v Speaker 1>known to both Karen and Craig. During the broadcast, the

1:27:33.320 --> 1:27:38.920
<v Speaker 1>psychic turned to Karen and suggested she knew exactly where

1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:43.959
<v Speaker 1>her daughter was The footage was reportedly passed on to police,

1:27:44.320 --> 1:27:48.040
<v Speaker 1>but did not promptmediate action at the time.

1:27:48.680 --> 1:27:50.800
<v Speaker 2>It's a psychic. You know that police aren't going to

1:27:50.960 --> 1:27:51.919
<v Speaker 2>take that seriously.

1:27:52.479 --> 1:27:56.000
<v Speaker 1>The case left a lasting mark on public perceptions of

1:27:56.080 --> 1:28:01.040
<v Speaker 1>trust and parenthood. Behind the headlines and corporatesed lies acquired

1:28:01.040 --> 1:28:05.920
<v Speaker 1>a truth. Childhood is meant to be rooted in safety, consistency,

1:28:06.320 --> 1:28:10.400
<v Speaker 1>and care. When that foundation is shaken, the loss is

1:28:10.439 --> 1:28:14.679
<v Speaker 1>not the only harm that occurred, but the ordinary, everyday

1:28:14.720 --> 1:28:18.719
<v Speaker 1>security that should have surrounded it. The reassurance at home

1:28:19.080 --> 1:28:23.439
<v Speaker 1>is a place of protection, not one of fear, and

1:28:23.439 --> 1:28:27.440
<v Speaker 1>that g love is a story of Shannon Matthews solely.

1:28:28.320 --> 1:28:31.479
<v Speaker 2>Heck, yes, old, Yes, my god.

1:28:31.640 --> 1:28:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, isn't that insane?

1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:36.439
<v Speaker 2>Oh so when you like, for a lot of this story,

1:28:36.600 --> 1:28:40.880
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, after after Elizabeth Smart, we're going

1:28:40.960 --> 1:28:44.280
<v Speaker 2>to do a story. Yeah that was abducted and killed. Okay,

1:28:44.280 --> 1:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not really on board with this. I mean, I

1:28:46.400 --> 1:28:49.400
<v Speaker 2>don't while doing this, Oh.

1:28:49.200 --> 1:28:53.760
<v Speaker 1>My old, yeah, my god, yes, yeah, isn't it just incredible?

1:28:53.800 --> 1:28:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Like the book recommendations as Shannon Betrayed from Birth by

1:28:58.760 --> 1:29:02.200
<v Speaker 1>Rose Martin, The documentaries are The Hunt for Shannon Matthews

1:29:02.200 --> 1:29:05.479
<v Speaker 1>and disappearance for Shannon Matthews. And there's a dramatized version

1:29:05.479 --> 1:29:07.640
<v Speaker 1>which I've heard is great called The Mare Side.

1:29:07.600 --> 1:29:09.640
<v Speaker 2>And a musical apparently.

1:29:09.240 --> 1:29:12.360
<v Speaker 1>A musical apparently as well, the Shannon Matthews musical.

1:29:12.840 --> 1:29:17.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm googling, which we've discussed before, is really an interesting

1:29:17.800 --> 1:29:20.800
<v Speaker 2>thing to do on an audio medium. But I need

1:29:20.840 --> 1:29:22.720
<v Speaker 2>to see what these people look like, because I can't

1:29:22.760 --> 1:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>believe I haven't heard of this. I don't recognize any

1:29:25.840 --> 1:29:29.479
<v Speaker 2>of these photos, which is terrible because if it was,

1:29:29.880 --> 1:29:32.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, nine months after Madeline McCann, exactly, why do

1:29:32.880 --> 1:29:36.439
<v Speaker 2>I know that so well? And not and not these well.

1:29:36.640 --> 1:29:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess because you know it was all a hoax.

1:29:40.040 --> 1:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but not for twenty four days?

1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:42.720
<v Speaker 1>No, I know.

1:29:43.200 --> 1:29:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, God, I mean, I'm glad I didn't know it

1:29:48.560 --> 1:29:52.040
<v Speaker 2>for the story because I was genuinely sitting here like hooked,

1:29:52.120 --> 1:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>like I was watching but not even a drue crime

1:29:55.960 --> 1:29:57.679
<v Speaker 2>doc or I felt like I was just like reading

1:29:57.720 --> 1:29:59.559
<v Speaker 2>a book or watching a story like.

1:30:00.240 --> 1:30:02.200
<v Speaker 1>It's because there's so many twists and turns that you

1:30:02.360 --> 1:30:05.800
<v Speaker 1>like what is going on to a few podcasts that

1:30:05.840 --> 1:30:09.519
<v Speaker 1>were so angry about Karen Matthews from the start and

1:30:09.520 --> 1:30:13.880
<v Speaker 1>it Yeah, but it's interesting when you go, oh my god, no,

1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:17.000
<v Speaker 1>she was safe the whole time, And I.

1:30:16.880 --> 1:30:19.599
<v Speaker 2>Was waiting this whole time for you to say, Julie

1:30:19.640 --> 1:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Bush benect, she was a red herring, just like just

1:30:25.080 --> 1:30:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Auntie in the community.

1:30:27.840 --> 1:30:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Red herring something like that. But honestly, like, I don't

1:30:32.280 --> 1:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>think that there was any like there has never been

1:30:34.439 --> 1:30:37.160
<v Speaker 1>from anything that I could report, any sexual abuse. There

1:30:37.200 --> 1:30:41.240
<v Speaker 1>was no form of any torture or anything. From all

1:30:41.280 --> 1:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I could tell, there was her being restrained and not

1:30:44.240 --> 1:30:46.639
<v Speaker 1>allowed to do anything, but she got to watch TV

1:30:47.000 --> 1:30:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and got to listen to music and.

1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Literally just they just wanted the reward money and they

1:30:52.960 --> 1:30:56.280
<v Speaker 2>thought that a good way to get thousands of pounds

1:30:56.360 --> 1:31:01.759
<v Speaker 2>was to kidnap her own door. That is so fun.

1:31:02.040 --> 1:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, And also like you're thinking about, like how

1:31:05.960 --> 1:31:11.120
<v Speaker 1>many million pounds was spent, like the state like Julie

1:31:11.120 --> 1:31:15.960
<v Speaker 1>bushby like printing hundreds of T shirts, printing hundreds of posters,

1:31:16.040 --> 1:31:18.439
<v Speaker 1>like and like they're rich people doing this, Like.

1:31:18.400 --> 1:31:21.639
<v Speaker 2>The trauma on that entire community of thinking there might

1:31:21.680 --> 1:31:24.800
<v Speaker 2>be some kidnapper around. Was a kid around, but you know,

1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:29.120
<v Speaker 2>and oh my god, that might be one of the

1:31:29.120 --> 1:31:30.439
<v Speaker 2>worst mothers I've ever heard of.

1:31:30.680 --> 1:31:32.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, well, I mean that that is the whole

1:31:32.479 --> 1:31:36.040
<v Speaker 1>thing about this musical apparently as well, she you know,

1:31:36.760 --> 1:31:38.960
<v Speaker 1>has the red rings around her eyes like she's in

1:31:39.000 --> 1:31:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the news report and everything.

1:31:40.200 --> 1:31:43.880
<v Speaker 2>Like I really hate these parody musicals that pop up

1:31:43.920 --> 1:31:46.559
<v Speaker 2>about like real things that have happened in the world,

1:31:46.560 --> 1:31:49.559
<v Speaker 2>and they pop up really quickly. They alwaysn't like you know,

1:31:49.720 --> 1:31:50.800
<v Speaker 2>comedy festivals and.

1:31:50.800 --> 1:31:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Stuffed the musical Chappelle the musical, Like there's Creak the music. Yeah,

1:31:54.680 --> 1:31:57.639
<v Speaker 1>there was one called Wolf Creak the musical. No, it's

1:31:57.680 --> 1:31:58.639
<v Speaker 1>all these yeah.

1:31:58.880 --> 1:32:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Like there's you know, a Luigi Mangioni one. Yeah, yeah,

1:32:04.280 --> 1:32:07.600
<v Speaker 2>just this like thing and that have written really quickly

1:32:07.640 --> 1:32:12.800
<v Speaker 2>to be like, oh, this is the funny thing that

1:32:13.080 --> 1:32:17.840
<v Speaker 2>just and yeah, just write a musical about Mormons or

1:32:18.840 --> 1:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>historical figure and the Beast America or something, yes, or

1:32:22.720 --> 1:32:23.880
<v Speaker 2>the best musical I think.

1:32:24.680 --> 1:32:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Mister Beast YouTuber. Okay, but yeah, but I know I

1:32:29.320 --> 1:32:31.679
<v Speaker 1>find I foind it a really interesting case. And it's

1:32:31.760 --> 1:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>also I mean, the fact that it was you know,

1:32:37.560 --> 1:32:42.160
<v Speaker 1>hoax in a way undermines the class issue. But but

1:32:42.040 --> 1:32:43.559
<v Speaker 1>but the way it was but in a way it

1:32:43.600 --> 1:32:45.840
<v Speaker 1>was treated not as I don't know.

1:32:46.280 --> 1:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like the police certainly didn't treat it in like.

1:32:49.400 --> 1:32:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Any No, no, no, I think the police, the local

1:32:52.120 --> 1:32:54.960
<v Speaker 1>police were really concerned about it and didn't want it

1:32:55.000 --> 1:32:58.040
<v Speaker 1>to be scrutinized in the same way that the you know,

1:32:58.080 --> 1:33:01.840
<v Speaker 1>the Portuguese police handled the Medela mccainn case.

1:33:02.200 --> 1:33:04.839
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it amazing how often it comes up in stories

1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>we're doing on this pod, how something has happened in

1:33:08.120 --> 1:33:11.280
<v Speaker 2>close succession to another story and that's changed the way

1:33:11.320 --> 1:33:15.240
<v Speaker 2>it's investigated, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. But like

1:33:15.280 --> 1:33:17.559
<v Speaker 2>everything influences everything else, doesn't it.

1:33:17.680 --> 1:33:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, And you look at like, you know, Madela

1:33:20.360 --> 1:33:24.520
<v Speaker 1>McCain will has some stage that the Madla McCain disappearance.

1:33:24.640 --> 1:33:28.240
<v Speaker 1>You go, okay, well, the parents were heavily scrutins at

1:33:28.280 --> 1:33:31.559
<v Speaker 1>the time, but they were very classy. They were at

1:33:31.600 --> 1:33:34.240
<v Speaker 1>to tap usp like you know, like it was just

1:33:34.400 --> 1:33:36.320
<v Speaker 1>posed very differently in the media.

1:33:36.400 --> 1:33:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, just the fact that we know every detail of

1:33:38.960 --> 1:33:42.120
<v Speaker 2>it so well sitting here in Australia when it's an

1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:45.400
<v Speaker 2>English family on holiday in Portugal and we know it

1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:49.240
<v Speaker 2>so well. Yeah, it was, Yeah, it was posed very differently.

1:33:49.600 --> 1:33:51.160
<v Speaker 2>You can bring up the whole thing about John Vne

1:33:51.280 --> 1:33:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Ramsey as well. You know Madeline McCain and John Vane

1:33:54.400 --> 1:34:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Ramsey too, you know, up more upper class you know,

1:34:01.000 --> 1:34:05.759
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote seen as classically beautiful children, blonde hair, blue eyes,

1:34:05.800 --> 1:34:08.679
<v Speaker 2>all of that. You know, it's like, yeah, it's really fun.

1:34:08.840 --> 1:34:12.200
<v Speaker 1>It's really fucked. And also like the I know, I

1:34:12.240 --> 1:34:16.720
<v Speaker 1>think in in the UK, we in Australia know of

1:34:16.760 --> 1:34:20.920
<v Speaker 1>a class system, where in Australia it is an unspoken

1:34:20.960 --> 1:34:24.600
<v Speaker 1>class system where it's really interesting because is that.

1:34:24.720 --> 1:34:29.120
<v Speaker 2>It isn't I'll argue that with things like it's the

1:34:29.160 --> 1:34:32.360
<v Speaker 2>same here in Australia, Like there are so many cases

1:34:32.400 --> 1:34:37.360
<v Speaker 2>of particularly First Nations people that are killed or have

1:34:37.439 --> 1:34:42.080
<v Speaker 2>gone missing, and there is outcry at the fact that

1:34:42.120 --> 1:34:44.479
<v Speaker 2>it's not being covered in the media the same as

1:34:45.040 --> 1:34:50.400
<v Speaker 2>other disappearances or murders or anything like. There is very

1:34:50.479 --> 1:34:51.639
<v Speaker 2>much a class system here.

1:34:51.800 --> 1:34:53.519
<v Speaker 1>No, it's not spoken, Yeah it's not.

1:34:54.200 --> 1:34:57.559
<v Speaker 2>It's only spoken about in like when something like that happens.

1:34:57.720 --> 1:34:59.680
<v Speaker 2>It's not like a general data taken.

1:34:59.439 --> 1:35:02.599
<v Speaker 1>About all it is it is. I think it's very

1:35:02.640 --> 1:35:06.400
<v Speaker 1>silent in Australia. It is what the media deem is

1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:08.160
<v Speaker 1>fit for them to talk about and what is not.

1:35:08.720 --> 1:35:11.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it's not the same as it's not

1:35:11.280 --> 1:35:14.120
<v Speaker 1>the same as the UK, where there was a there

1:35:14.320 --> 1:35:18.640
<v Speaker 1>was an assigned class system and now it's unspoken. In Australia,

1:35:18.720 --> 1:35:21.080
<v Speaker 1>we do not see class like we do see class,

1:35:21.280 --> 1:35:24.519
<v Speaker 1>but it is not spoken about at all until it's

1:35:24.520 --> 1:35:26.479
<v Speaker 1>deemed what we talk about and what we don't talk.

1:35:26.400 --> 1:35:29.479
<v Speaker 2>And I suppose that's what I'm saying. What is spoken

1:35:29.520 --> 1:35:32.800
<v Speaker 2>about is people saying after the fact, yes, that wasn't

1:35:32.840 --> 1:35:35.880
<v Speaker 2>spoken about because we're classes. That's when it's spoken about.

1:35:35.880 --> 1:35:38.519
<v Speaker 1>It is classes, but it's not spoken about like it's

1:35:38.560 --> 1:35:40.720
<v Speaker 1>it's everyone looks at each other, like you know, if

1:35:40.760 --> 1:35:44.760
<v Speaker 1>there's like you know a you know a home, you know,

1:35:44.760 --> 1:35:47.519
<v Speaker 1>an unhoused person that is going off their nut, you know,

1:35:47.600 --> 1:35:49.800
<v Speaker 1>like it is. It is spoken about, but it is

1:35:49.840 --> 1:35:52.479
<v Speaker 1>not spoken about. And I find that really interesting. The

1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:55.479
<v Speaker 1>people that would see my brother as a homeless person

1:35:55.920 --> 1:35:58.280
<v Speaker 1>where they do not see they'll see me in a

1:35:58.280 --> 1:36:01.200
<v Speaker 1>completely different line. It is, so it's not spoken about.

1:36:01.400 --> 1:36:03.519
<v Speaker 2>You literally grew up in the same house.

1:36:04.880 --> 1:36:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Exactly. So I just feel like, yeah, in in in

1:36:09.800 --> 1:36:14.160
<v Speaker 1>the UK, I kind of saw like my digs please

1:36:14.439 --> 1:36:19.160
<v Speaker 1>have a conversation, I kind of see my my view

1:36:19.160 --> 1:36:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of it is, as a young kid growing up in Australia,

1:36:23.040 --> 1:36:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I knew that there was a class system.

1:36:24.800 --> 1:36:27.960
<v Speaker 2>In the UK, yes, yeah, yeah.

1:36:27.360 --> 1:36:30.720
<v Speaker 1>And in Australia we do have a class system. We

1:36:30.760 --> 1:36:32.960
<v Speaker 1>call people bogans, we call people, you know, and I'm

1:36:33.200 --> 1:36:36.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm a glorified bogan. But there are people that you go,

1:36:36.120 --> 1:36:38.320
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, that's a cash up bogan. Yeah, that's

1:36:38.360 --> 1:36:41.080
<v Speaker 1>a bogan. They're fast North Queensland there. You know, I

1:36:41.080 --> 1:36:42.720
<v Speaker 1>can't know, I couldn't pronounce that probably, but you know,

1:36:42.720 --> 1:36:46.200
<v Speaker 1>but there, you know, there are so many people that

1:36:46.280 --> 1:36:50.000
<v Speaker 1>we go they're that person, They're that person, They're a bohemian,

1:36:50.320 --> 1:36:53.479
<v Speaker 1>they live there, they live there, they live there. I

1:36:53.520 --> 1:36:56.160
<v Speaker 1>think in a lot of ways in Australia it is

1:36:56.200 --> 1:36:58.759
<v Speaker 1>not based so much on accent as it is based

1:36:58.800 --> 1:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>on location. You know, Like I don't know, like maybe

1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:04.920
<v Speaker 1>that is a thing because you know, we look at

1:37:04.920 --> 1:37:08.519
<v Speaker 1>a place like like where the mushroom cook trial looking

1:37:08.560 --> 1:37:12.760
<v Speaker 1>more well, that is a disadvantage place that there is

1:37:12.800 --> 1:37:15.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of housing commissions, there are there's a lot

1:37:15.439 --> 1:37:19.680
<v Speaker 1>of unemployment there, and there are certain parts of Australia

1:37:19.840 --> 1:37:22.720
<v Speaker 1>where there is just a certain part where you go

1:37:23.200 --> 1:37:28.919
<v Speaker 1>or that that region is. For some reason, the government

1:37:28.960 --> 1:37:32.720
<v Speaker 1>have not focused as highly on that. The social work

1:37:32.800 --> 1:37:38.400
<v Speaker 1>system is really disadvantage the like housing and everything. It's

1:37:38.439 --> 1:37:42.200
<v Speaker 1>a mess everywhere, but God, in Australia we've got such

1:37:42.240 --> 1:37:44.679
<v Speaker 1>a big problem with class, like we have got such

1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:46.680
<v Speaker 1>a big problem with class. I mean, we've got a

1:37:46.720 --> 1:37:50.200
<v Speaker 1>major problem with traditional owners of this land, but we

1:37:50.360 --> 1:37:54.360
<v Speaker 1>also have a huge problem with people that are unhoused.

1:37:54.360 --> 1:37:55.920
<v Speaker 1>That you know, and you see it all the time.

1:37:55.960 --> 1:37:57.360
<v Speaker 1>It pops up all the time. But I think in

1:37:57.360 --> 1:38:00.560
<v Speaker 1>Australia it's maybe more maybe it's less spoken about it.

1:38:00.560 --> 1:38:01.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you think like he.

1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Didn't the right way?

1:38:03.160 --> 1:38:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so I don't know, I find it in Australia.

1:38:06.240 --> 1:38:09.400
<v Speaker 1>It's like people that live in you know, a commission housing,

1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:11.160
<v Speaker 1>which it was, and it was it was in a

1:38:11.280 --> 1:38:15.720
<v Speaker 1>state we don't see like we we sometimes you know,

1:38:15.800 --> 1:38:18.080
<v Speaker 1>like I remember when you know in the lockdown.

1:38:18.160 --> 1:38:22.439
<v Speaker 2>Exactly what I was. There were for international or even

1:38:22.479 --> 1:38:25.400
<v Speaker 2>in state listeners you might not know this. There were

1:38:26.479 --> 1:38:30.200
<v Speaker 2>public housing towers, so like you know big apartment buildings

1:38:30.439 --> 1:38:35.439
<v Speaker 2>that are all public housing, yes, that were literally locked

1:38:35.720 --> 1:38:40.080
<v Speaker 2>down as in the people who lived in those buildings

1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:43.599
<v Speaker 2>were not allowed to leave their front door because of

1:38:44.000 --> 1:38:48.679
<v Speaker 2>COVID the COVID spread, but everywhere else in the state

1:38:48.760 --> 1:38:51.760
<v Speaker 2>people could move around the very least kind of five

1:38:51.840 --> 1:38:55.800
<v Speaker 2>kilometers from their home and these towers were literally locked down.

1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:59.360
<v Speaker 2>It was a boring like that that it's just yeah,

1:38:59.439 --> 1:39:02.040
<v Speaker 2>you're right, and I mean, we're telling these stories from

1:39:02.320 --> 1:39:04.840
<v Speaker 2>our lives here in Melbourne, Australia. Like gosh, the people

1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>listening will have I'm certain that there's.

1:39:07.000 --> 1:39:09.200
<v Speaker 1>So many other places, Oh my god, yeah.

1:39:09.240 --> 1:39:13.040
<v Speaker 2>Have examples of that. But you're right. It's it's you say,

1:39:13.040 --> 1:39:15.080
<v Speaker 2>you grew up in Australia knowing that there was a

1:39:15.439 --> 1:39:18.519
<v Speaker 2>really obvious class system in England, yes, and not thinking

1:39:18.560 --> 1:39:20.839
<v Speaker 2>there was here until you grew up and witness it yourself.

1:39:20.960 --> 1:39:21.240
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:39:21.600 --> 1:39:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you know, you and I speak from a

1:39:23.800 --> 1:39:26.559
<v Speaker 1>place of privilege where we go about you know, we're

1:39:26.640 --> 1:39:29.280
<v Speaker 1>lucky enough to live, you know, being able to afford

1:39:29.439 --> 1:39:33.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you know, rent or a mortgage or whatever.

1:39:33.640 --> 1:39:35.760
<v Speaker 1>But you go, oh my god, like there's people in

1:39:35.760 --> 1:39:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Australia alone that completely like they're blind, Like you know,

1:39:42.120 --> 1:39:45.520
<v Speaker 1>like like a lot of the time people are invisible

1:39:46.360 --> 1:39:51.080
<v Speaker 1>to funding to whatever it is to government. Like I

1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:53.720
<v Speaker 1>looked at like, you know, the when I lived in

1:39:53.800 --> 1:39:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I lived in foot screen before I moved here, and

1:39:55.880 --> 1:39:57.920
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, the food bank there was there was

1:39:57.960 --> 1:40:01.400
<v Speaker 1>always like a food bank line around the corner and

1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:06.400
<v Speaker 1>you'd see this as as as a different it felt

1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:08.920
<v Speaker 1>like a different world because you're like, this is you know,

1:40:09.040 --> 1:40:11.799
<v Speaker 1>like we're living in a place that I never thought

1:40:12.080 --> 1:40:16.200
<v Speaker 1>for some reason that there was this this class divide,

1:40:16.439 --> 1:40:20.439
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's very much there, but it's very hidden

1:40:20.640 --> 1:40:22.320
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like a lot of the time people

1:40:22.360 --> 1:40:25.599
<v Speaker 1>don't talk about it, and it's it's so there, and

1:40:25.640 --> 1:40:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we we relate a lot more to

1:40:28.240 --> 1:40:33.479
<v Speaker 1>the UK. Yeah, and because you know about you know,

1:40:34.200 --> 1:40:38.080
<v Speaker 1>our heritage and everything as well, it's like, well, we

1:40:38.120 --> 1:40:40.360
<v Speaker 1>are that, you know, sovereignty was never seated. We live

1:40:40.400 --> 1:40:42.439
<v Speaker 1>in this place where it's like, oh, we're lucky to

1:40:42.479 --> 1:40:46.200
<v Speaker 1>live here, but we live with these you know, the

1:40:46.200 --> 1:40:48.640
<v Speaker 1>traditional owners of the land and we should be respecting

1:40:48.680 --> 1:40:52.920
<v Speaker 1>this but also like you know, our economic Yeah. So

1:40:52.960 --> 1:40:57.400
<v Speaker 1>I know. I found the Shannon Matthew's case so interesting

1:40:57.840 --> 1:41:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and also really interesting to look at the divide and go,

1:41:00.920 --> 1:41:04.559
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, there's an upperclass. There's all these different layers.

1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Again, the fact that in Melbourne, Australia, I know every

1:41:08.880 --> 1:41:12.400
<v Speaker 2>detail about the Madeline McCann case so well, and only

1:41:12.479 --> 1:41:15.880
<v Speaker 2>nine months later, from the same country, a nine year

1:41:15.920 --> 1:41:17.840
<v Speaker 2>old girl were missing for a month and there was

1:41:17.880 --> 1:41:20.439
<v Speaker 2>a massive search. And I'm even now looking up the

1:41:20.439 --> 1:41:23.240
<v Speaker 2>photos and go I recognize any of these people at all.

1:41:23.360 --> 1:41:25.800
<v Speaker 2>That like the fact of that, yes, you can't tell me,

1:41:25.840 --> 1:41:28.640
<v Speaker 2>that's not about it so sad, especially the fact that

1:41:28.680 --> 1:41:30.920
<v Speaker 2>it was turned out to be the bloody mum setting

1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:31.200
<v Speaker 2>it up.

1:41:31.240 --> 1:41:35.160
<v Speaker 1>That should be like it, Oh my god, yeah, bloody hell, yeah,

1:41:35.280 --> 1:41:38.800
<v Speaker 1>I know, Oh Sammy, It's a huge story. It's a

1:41:39.000 --> 1:41:41.639
<v Speaker 1>huge story. And so I'm going to go and watch

1:41:41.680 --> 1:41:44.280
<v Speaker 1>the more Side TV show. I'm really interested in that,

1:41:44.320 --> 1:41:45.920
<v Speaker 1>and I need to see the documentaries about it to

1:41:45.920 --> 1:41:49.439
<v Speaker 1>look at the because I haven't. I kind of not

1:41:49.520 --> 1:41:51.640
<v Speaker 1>watched the footage just because I didn't want to be

1:41:52.240 --> 1:41:55.439
<v Speaker 1>bombarded with all these different interpretations of everything.

1:41:55.520 --> 1:41:58.080
<v Speaker 2>But just look up the facts and tell the story yourself.

1:41:58.200 --> 1:42:00.600
<v Speaker 1>But there's all these you know, the footage of the

1:42:00.960 --> 1:42:04.479
<v Speaker 1>interviews and the press conference, and now I really want

1:42:04.479 --> 1:42:06.160
<v Speaker 1>to go and watch Wow.

1:42:05.840 --> 1:42:07.120
<v Speaker 2>How did you hear about this story.

1:42:07.960 --> 1:42:11.559
<v Speaker 1>I heard about it by someone talking about it on

1:42:11.600 --> 1:42:17.240
<v Speaker 1>another documentary. It was about Elizabeth Smart. It was a podcast.

1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:19.240
<v Speaker 1>Listen to it and they said, oh my god, imagine

1:42:19.240 --> 1:42:20.839
<v Speaker 1>if this was you know, Shannon Matthews.

1:42:20.840 --> 1:42:23.000
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, whos Matthews?

1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:24.920
<v Speaker 1>And I looked it up and I went, oh, this

1:42:25.000 --> 1:42:29.800
<v Speaker 1>is a really interesting disappearance story. And then because it

1:42:30.000 --> 1:42:33.840
<v Speaker 1>was a disappearance where they were actually found, yes, okay,

1:42:34.000 --> 1:42:36.880
<v Speaker 1>because quite a rare thing. So they said Shannon Matthews.

1:42:37.280 --> 1:42:39.760
<v Speaker 1>And then as I looked into it, I went, holy shit,

1:42:39.840 --> 1:42:45.720
<v Speaker 1>children alive. It was a laugh she laugh a mom.

1:42:46.200 --> 1:42:49.320
<v Speaker 1>You know that was another crazy element, wasn't the stout.

1:42:49.080 --> 1:42:54.040
<v Speaker 2>That you said that they said one hundred percent of

1:42:54.120 --> 1:42:55.479
<v Speaker 2>children who aren't found in.

1:42:55.800 --> 1:42:58.439
<v Speaker 1>How long it was a few days?

1:42:58.479 --> 1:43:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that must obviously before this one.

1:43:00.400 --> 1:43:02.120
<v Speaker 1>Then yes, yeah. God.

1:43:02.400 --> 1:43:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Also, I must say so I know that I correct people.

1:43:10.000 --> 1:43:10.479
<v Speaker 1>You know that.

1:43:10.760 --> 1:43:14.120
<v Speaker 2>But the only person who does that more than I

1:43:15.000 --> 1:43:18.400
<v Speaker 2>is my dear sister, oh CAC. And I know when

1:43:18.439 --> 1:43:21.000
<v Speaker 2>she's listened to a story because she'll just message me.

1:43:21.080 --> 1:43:24.000
<v Speaker 2>She won't say I've just listened to the episode. She'll

1:43:24.120 --> 1:43:28.040
<v Speaker 2>just say things out of the blue, such as this text.

1:43:28.920 --> 1:43:32.680
<v Speaker 2>Some other kidnappings without ransom notes Elizabeth Fritzel, J C.

1:43:32.840 --> 1:43:35.639
<v Speaker 2>Lee Duggard and the victims taken by Ariel Castro.

1:43:36.040 --> 1:43:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, j C. Duggard's definitely on my radar.

1:43:39.920 --> 1:43:44.519
<v Speaker 2>So yes, we had in the Elizabeth Smart story. I'd said,

1:43:44.680 --> 1:43:47.720
<v Speaker 2>I know there are there will be them, but I

1:43:47.760 --> 1:43:50.320
<v Speaker 2>can't think off the top of my head kidnappings that

1:43:50.360 --> 1:43:54.160
<v Speaker 2>have resulted in someone returning alive that have not come

1:43:54.160 --> 1:43:57.160
<v Speaker 2>with ransom notes at all. My sister will always tell

1:43:57.160 --> 1:44:00.639
<v Speaker 2>me wrong, these are the people. This is another one.

1:44:01.160 --> 1:44:04.000
<v Speaker 1>It's another one, for sure, and it just I don't know.

1:44:04.120 --> 1:44:08.080
<v Speaker 1>I find this one so fascinating that her mum could

1:44:08.160 --> 1:44:11.760
<v Speaker 1>stand by for the fucking long, like I think in

1:44:11.800 --> 1:44:14.679
<v Speaker 1>the first place, I know going she'd fetch more because

1:44:14.680 --> 1:44:18.040
<v Speaker 1>she's a girl, like oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It is

1:44:18.479 --> 1:44:23.960
<v Speaker 1>disgusting and yeah, just and I feel so sorry for

1:44:24.000 --> 1:44:27.000
<v Speaker 1>the poor people in the state as well that gave

1:44:27.040 --> 1:44:29.639
<v Speaker 1>their whole heart to this, thinking this could be my daughter,

1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:33.519
<v Speaker 1>this could be my kid. And then they're out searching

1:44:33.560 --> 1:44:36.719
<v Speaker 1>all the time. They you know, are in the same

1:44:36.800 --> 1:44:40.120
<v Speaker 1>positions as Karen Matthews is, and they are out there

1:44:40.560 --> 1:44:44.040
<v Speaker 1>all their resources, everything and I also like, I don't

1:44:44.040 --> 1:44:48.080
<v Speaker 1>know the full extent of the relationship of Shannon's grandparents,

1:44:48.600 --> 1:44:54.320
<v Speaker 1>but from my reading, it felt like they did provide

1:44:54.439 --> 1:44:56.960
<v Speaker 1>quite a stable like they were working class family, but

1:44:57.000 --> 1:45:02.599
<v Speaker 1>they really did provide a stable unit for Karen Matthews.

1:45:02.600 --> 1:45:04.800
<v Speaker 1>And they had seven kids, and I just they had

1:45:04.840 --> 1:45:08.960
<v Speaker 1>a huge falling out with Karen Matthews previously, and they

1:45:08.960 --> 1:45:13.080
<v Speaker 1>had just kind of thought, well, let's kind of patch

1:45:13.120 --> 1:45:16.439
<v Speaker 1>that up because we want to see the grandkids. Oh yeah, yeah,

1:45:16.520 --> 1:45:19.160
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and Karen always used to like that,

1:45:19.240 --> 1:45:22.679
<v Speaker 1>as you know, dangling that carrot of like you can't

1:45:22.680 --> 1:45:24.320
<v Speaker 1>see the grandkids, you can't see the grand kids, and

1:45:24.360 --> 1:45:26.439
<v Speaker 1>she'd stay with them and use them anytimes you want it.

1:45:26.760 --> 1:45:28.640
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know the full extent to the grandparents.

1:45:28.680 --> 1:45:30.360
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you know more than me, maybe you want to

1:45:30.360 --> 1:45:33.120
<v Speaker 1>write in, but I just find that really interesting. And

1:45:33.320 --> 1:45:37.639
<v Speaker 1>hopefully if Shannon one day does feel comfortable enough, I mean,

1:45:37.640 --> 1:45:40.400
<v Speaker 1>you would never trust anyone again. But if she does

1:45:40.400 --> 1:45:42.439
<v Speaker 1>feel comfortable enough, I wonder if she will ever reach

1:45:42.479 --> 1:45:45.120
<v Speaker 1>out to the grandparents, if she feels like that is

1:45:45.160 --> 1:45:47.800
<v Speaker 1>something she wants to do. I would feel like someone

1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.000
<v Speaker 1>like Julie Bushby would love to hear from Shannon Matthews.

1:45:50.000 --> 1:45:53.759
<v Speaker 2>But you know, but Julie Bushby has her note pattern

1:45:53.840 --> 1:45:59.440
<v Speaker 2>pen ready to go for her own e memore.

1:45:58.760 --> 1:46:01.479
<v Speaker 1>The funny thing about Julie as well. So apparently, like

1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:05.679
<v Speaker 1>you know that Karen was always like a pathological liar,

1:46:05.680 --> 1:46:08.120
<v Speaker 1>and every time she tells the story it was different.

1:46:08.360 --> 1:46:12.280
<v Speaker 1>But Julie would go every single chance she get, just

1:46:12.320 --> 1:46:15.680
<v Speaker 1>filling out a NOTEPAP. And I feel like I have

1:46:17.000 --> 1:46:20.240
<v Speaker 1>I have actually looked this up, and I I know

1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:23.799
<v Speaker 1>in my head, I know who she's played by, and

1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:27.560
<v Speaker 1>in my head I know that this person would absolutely

1:46:27.600 --> 1:46:31.880
<v Speaker 1>play this person. So if I look up Julie Bushby

1:46:32.560 --> 1:46:37.040
<v Speaker 1>and I look up more Sides, so who played Julie

1:46:37.160 --> 1:46:38.880
<v Speaker 1>Bushby in More Side?

1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:42.040
<v Speaker 2>It's what a great character. And she's not a character,

1:46:42.160 --> 1:46:44.960
<v Speaker 2>she's a cute like an actual person. Happened, but it

1:46:45.120 --> 1:46:46.120
<v Speaker 2>was such a character.

1:46:46.240 --> 1:46:46.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1:46:46.560 --> 1:46:49.000
<v Speaker 2>I was just planning for I was picturing that was

1:46:49.000 --> 1:46:49.840
<v Speaker 2>going somewhere that she.

1:46:51.360 --> 1:46:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Some crazy I know, yeah, this woman, you would know her.

1:46:58.320 --> 1:47:04.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, what chevn Finnan. But she's an incredible actor.

1:47:05.479 --> 1:47:08.439
<v Speaker 1>That is just in every single theme.

1:47:09.439 --> 1:47:15.240
<v Speaker 2>I was picturing someone with the typical like Internet Karen haircut.

1:47:15.840 --> 1:47:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, oh I'm wrong. Actually this is the person

1:47:18.920 --> 1:47:23.320
<v Speaker 1>who played Julie bushby Sheridan Smith.

1:47:24.520 --> 1:47:24.600
<v Speaker 4>What.

1:47:25.080 --> 1:47:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's okay, just like a young hot actress. Yeah

1:47:29.160 --> 1:47:30.400
<v Speaker 2>that's not what I pictured at all.

1:47:30.520 --> 1:47:33.720
<v Speaker 1>No, but that's it. Yeah, but anyway, I hate it.

1:47:34.000 --> 1:47:35.920
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, that that woman that I was just talking

1:47:35.920 --> 1:47:41.920
<v Speaker 1>about the yeah, chevon Finnanan. She is one of those

1:47:41.960 --> 1:47:44.400
<v Speaker 1>actors in the UK that just go oh yeah, yeah,

1:47:44.400 --> 1:47:44.600
<v Speaker 1>I know.

1:47:44.680 --> 1:47:45.559
<v Speaker 2>Was she in the show at all?

1:47:45.600 --> 1:47:47.479
<v Speaker 1>Have you just yeah, yeah she played it?

1:47:47.640 --> 1:47:48.240
<v Speaker 2>Just brought her up?

1:47:48.280 --> 1:47:51.519
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, she yeah, she was a detective in it.

1:47:51.600 --> 1:47:54.520
<v Speaker 1>So I think she's the one that actually finds.

1:47:54.800 --> 1:47:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's whoa what a stories.

1:47:58.400 --> 1:48:01.639
<v Speaker 1>That mean anywhere? I wish you'd passed.

1:48:02.360 --> 1:48:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh he's doing a weirdle like double hand wave goodbye

1:48:05.400 --> 1:48:08.120
<v Speaker 2>to me. I'm still like, you're gonna pressed up recording,

1:48:08.120 --> 1:48:14.160
<v Speaker 2>but I'll still be in your house. Oh get rid

1:48:14.200 --> 1:48:15.800
<v Speaker 2>of me, I'll find you.

1:48:15.840 --> 1:48:18.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, do you do the mailbag? Come back up

1:48:18.560 --> 1:48:25.120
<v Speaker 1>with the elms? Hey? Gee, love you? Ready for the

1:48:25.160 --> 1:48:26.040
<v Speaker 1>mail bab.

1:48:26.000 --> 1:48:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I always am and the female bag.

1:48:28.960 --> 1:48:30.880
<v Speaker 1>A nice one by the way.

1:48:30.920 --> 1:48:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Just trying add some puns today.

1:48:32.760 --> 1:48:36.840
<v Speaker 1>Some good stuff. We've got some lovely messages when people

1:48:36.840 --> 1:48:41.000
<v Speaker 1>comment under the Spotify episodes. We've got Maddie rights. Under

1:48:41.040 --> 1:48:44.240
<v Speaker 1>the kin Wall episode, she writes a reputation for brilliant.

1:48:44.320 --> 1:48:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Who is he Bright's Courtney? I'm dead? That cracked me up.

1:48:48.240 --> 1:48:52.559
<v Speaker 1>We've got from Jen Oh my god, my gigantic wild dog.

1:48:52.600 --> 1:48:55.519
<v Speaker 1>Buddha was seven on Valentine's Day as well.

1:48:55.560 --> 1:48:58.040
<v Speaker 2>We've got but and Digs have the very same.

1:48:57.880 --> 1:49:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Birthday right, seven killer gram laptop, sorry, sixty kilogram laptop.

1:49:03.120 --> 1:49:05.519
<v Speaker 1>Did you read sixty as I have? You know that

1:49:05.560 --> 1:49:06.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm not very good at reading numbers.

1:49:07.439 --> 1:49:12.639
<v Speaker 2>We have six huge, sixty kilos.

1:49:12.360 --> 1:49:15.479
<v Speaker 1>Huge huge. We have Gemma the way I yelled disarm

1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:16.120
<v Speaker 1>at my phone.

1:49:16.280 --> 1:49:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, yeah, the bomb him All episode. For some reason,

1:49:20.200 --> 1:49:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Sam and I couldn't think of the word for the

1:49:22.400 --> 1:49:25.599
<v Speaker 2>opposite of detonating a book and you know what that episode. Also,

1:49:25.680 --> 1:49:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I've had the most like real time text reactions from

1:49:29.040 --> 1:49:31.040
<v Speaker 2>friends while they were listening. One of them was our

1:49:31.040 --> 1:49:33.040
<v Speaker 2>friend Alex. So we've spoken about on the pod and

1:49:33.120 --> 1:49:35.880
<v Speaker 2>you said in a speak pipe and there was no

1:49:36.000 --> 1:49:37.760
<v Speaker 2>preamble to it. I didn't know he was listening at

1:49:37.760 --> 1:49:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the time, I just got a message saying you disarm

1:49:39.920 --> 1:49:40.280
<v Speaker 2>a bomb.

1:49:40.280 --> 1:49:44.599
<v Speaker 1>I was like, okay, thank you. Elizabeth says it's Bubba.

1:49:45.240 --> 1:49:49.559
<v Speaker 1>How funny to hear myself on a pod. I loved.

1:49:49.920 --> 1:49:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I laughed with you and cried listening to this terrible crime.

1:49:53.360 --> 1:49:56.400
<v Speaker 1>What a mad Danish man. I must watch the doc

1:49:56.479 --> 1:50:00.479
<v Speaker 1>but only after I've finished binging your pod. Nearly there, George.

1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:03.400
<v Speaker 1>And my daughter g is a mad Hamilton musical lover.

1:50:03.600 --> 1:50:05.400
<v Speaker 2>But it must be a Georgia thing, must.

1:50:05.160 --> 1:50:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Be and can sing every song mad, excuse hang on

1:50:09.720 --> 1:50:15.679
<v Speaker 1>check out. Unfortunately, she could never afford to see the musical,

1:50:16.520 --> 1:50:19.080
<v Speaker 1>had to put other things first. I will gift her

1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:21.479
<v Speaker 1>tickets one day when it's back in OZ.

1:50:21.600 --> 1:50:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Love you guys, and you know what, of all the musicals,

1:50:26.280 --> 1:50:29.479
<v Speaker 2>Hamilton is the one that there is the greatest ever

1:50:29.640 --> 1:50:32.840
<v Speaker 2>version of it on stage. But you can watch on

1:50:32.880 --> 1:50:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Disney Plus, so if you can afford a Disney Plus subscription,

1:50:37.280 --> 1:50:38.559
<v Speaker 2>even if you know, just get it from a month

1:50:38.600 --> 1:50:39.360
<v Speaker 2>and binge.

1:50:39.080 --> 1:50:40.160
<v Speaker 1>It a lot of times.

1:50:40.840 --> 1:50:43.439
<v Speaker 2>That is the full stage production on Broadway with the

1:50:43.479 --> 1:50:47.240
<v Speaker 2>original Broadway and so absolutely brilliant, so you can see

1:50:47.240 --> 1:50:50.519
<v Speaker 2>it on stage. It's just you know, you can watch

1:50:50.520 --> 1:50:52.880
<v Speaker 2>it on your couch with a glass of Jans or

1:50:52.920 --> 1:50:54.879
<v Speaker 2>a bottle, and you can watch it as many.

1:50:54.720 --> 1:50:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Dives as you will, whatever the heck you want. I

1:50:57.120 --> 1:51:03.360
<v Speaker 1>got this one from Lane girl. When will we see Powdry?

1:51:03.880 --> 1:51:06.439
<v Speaker 2>Sammy? This is what I keep asking you. I keep saying,

1:51:06.479 --> 1:51:08.519
<v Speaker 2>can we record it mine? And then you go and

1:51:08.920 --> 1:51:10.840
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote hurt your back, So we.

1:51:10.800 --> 1:51:11.280
<v Speaker 4>Have to.

1:51:12.840 --> 1:51:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Now we will. We need to record with Powdry because

1:51:16.600 --> 1:51:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Poudrey will be all over the I imagine she did,

1:51:20.880 --> 1:51:23.240
<v Speaker 1>like walk all over it's during the Yes, she will

1:51:23.320 --> 1:51:25.200
<v Speaker 1>during the episode, and it's going to be amazing because

1:51:25.240 --> 1:51:26.120
<v Speaker 1>Pody is fantastical.

1:51:26.160 --> 1:51:27.920
<v Speaker 2>It can't bring her here because digs will try to

1:51:27.920 --> 1:51:28.320
<v Speaker 2>eat her.

1:51:28.520 --> 1:51:31.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, but he's got siga sauce, so it's pretty

1:51:31.760 --> 1:51:35.200
<v Speaker 1>interested in siga saus we've got Now that you're ready

1:51:35.200 --> 1:51:36.839
<v Speaker 1>for goddamn speak pupe.

1:51:37.120 --> 1:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I love them.

1:51:37.760 --> 1:51:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Are you actually ready for it?

1:51:39.080 --> 1:51:39.559
<v Speaker 2>I think so?

1:51:40.000 --> 1:51:44.720
<v Speaker 6>Okay, Hi guys, this is Sarah. I am chiming in

1:51:44.760 --> 1:51:47.360
<v Speaker 6>because I just listened to your Kim Wall episode and

1:51:47.400 --> 1:51:50.440
<v Speaker 6>I was so excited to share my own Real Housewives

1:51:50.479 --> 1:51:56.040
<v Speaker 6>of Melbourne story. A few years ago, I was stating

1:51:56.080 --> 1:51:59.559
<v Speaker 6>a guy who was at the Australian Open in Melbourne.

1:52:00.080 --> 1:52:03.000
<v Speaker 6>I live in Brisbane. It's like a Saturday night. He's

1:52:03.080 --> 1:52:04.960
<v Speaker 6>kind of tipsy. I think I was out. I was

1:52:05.040 --> 1:52:06.040
<v Speaker 6>kind of tipsy.

1:52:07.240 --> 1:52:07.960
<v Speaker 1>He called me.

1:52:07.920 --> 1:52:11.599
<v Speaker 6>And he was like, Sarah, Sarah, I have the most

1:52:11.720 --> 1:52:13.600
<v Speaker 6>amazing thing for you. I want to put someone on

1:52:13.600 --> 1:52:18.040
<v Speaker 6>the phone. It's a celebrity. I was super excited. I

1:52:18.080 --> 1:52:19.519
<v Speaker 6>thought it was going to be huge. I thought it

1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:22.120
<v Speaker 6>was going to be a donner, but he was actually better.

1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:28.880
<v Speaker 6>He then puts Pettiflir on is tipsy as hell. My

1:52:29.760 --> 1:52:32.519
<v Speaker 6>friend's phone was really shitty, so the reception was really bad.

1:52:33.080 --> 1:52:35.920
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if you guys remember, but on the show,

1:52:36.200 --> 1:52:39.719
<v Speaker 6>Pettiflir wrote a books the bitch.

1:52:41.080 --> 1:52:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of tipsy.

1:52:42.200 --> 1:52:44.599
<v Speaker 6>I'm really excited, but like getting frustrated because I can't

1:52:44.600 --> 1:52:49.439
<v Speaker 6>hear her properly, says Verbatim. Girl, you gotta squitch the bit.

1:52:51.479 --> 1:52:53.800
<v Speaker 6>Still love telling that story. I think it's the best

1:52:53.800 --> 1:52:57.320
<v Speaker 6>celebrity interaction. I just wanted to share it with you

1:52:57.360 --> 1:52:59.160
<v Speaker 6>guys because I knew you would appreciate it.

1:52:59.360 --> 1:53:02.479
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Sarah. We appreciate that so much. I'm so

1:53:02.600 --> 1:53:04.880
<v Speaker 2>glad that wasn't Madonna, how boring with that story of

1:53:04.960 --> 1:53:07.320
<v Speaker 2>being is a queen.

1:53:07.800 --> 1:53:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she is so Swish the Bish, I don't know,

1:53:10.720 --> 1:53:13.000
<v Speaker 1>and swished the Bish. She wrote this book and it

1:53:13.040 --> 1:53:16.320
<v Speaker 1>was more of a pamphlet really, which called it. She

1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:20.240
<v Speaker 1>had like a full book launch for it, of course,

1:53:20.280 --> 1:53:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and she had to explain what it meant, like what

1:53:24.320 --> 1:53:26.840
<v Speaker 1>swished the bish man? I think it was swish, maybe

1:53:26.880 --> 1:53:29.720
<v Speaker 1>it was switch anyway, but she kept saying swish, You're

1:53:29.720 --> 1:53:32.960
<v Speaker 1>gonna swish the bish and and anyway, she had to

1:53:33.040 --> 1:53:36.960
<v Speaker 1>explain what it meant over and over again. It didn't

1:53:36.960 --> 1:53:39.400
<v Speaker 1>make sense anytime. It was like, you know, when you're

1:53:40.120 --> 1:53:42.080
<v Speaker 1>not the bish and then you gotta swish it, that

1:53:42.200 --> 1:53:44.439
<v Speaker 1>swish the bitch, and it just it just kept going

1:53:44.920 --> 1:53:48.479
<v Speaker 1>over and over again. And I'm really not sure Sarah

1:53:48.880 --> 1:53:51.280
<v Speaker 1>what it means. Still. I want you to leave another

1:53:51.840 --> 1:53:55.320
<v Speaker 1>speak pipe voicemail if you know what Swished the Bish

1:53:55.439 --> 1:53:57.240
<v Speaker 1>is about. I want to get a copy. I don't

1:53:57.240 --> 1:53:59.280
<v Speaker 1>know if there are copies available anymore. It was a

1:53:59.320 --> 1:54:02.639
<v Speaker 1>green stuff as I remember. Yeah, we need to get

1:54:02.920 --> 1:54:06.439
<v Speaker 1>Pettiflir on the podcast because maybe she might be the

1:54:06.479 --> 1:54:08.080
<v Speaker 1>only person that can tell us what swish.

1:54:07.880 --> 1:54:10.360
<v Speaker 2>The Bee is all about we need Pettyflir on the podcast.

1:54:10.400 --> 1:54:12.360
<v Speaker 1>I know, but I don't believe that she would know

1:54:12.680 --> 1:54:14.800
<v Speaker 1>what the book's about either, and.

1:54:14.720 --> 1:54:16.000
<v Speaker 2>That is why we need to ask her.

1:54:17.640 --> 1:54:20.639
<v Speaker 1>It was such a funny season because every single time

1:54:20.680 --> 1:54:23.479
<v Speaker 1>she tried to explain that, we just kept saying it

1:54:23.520 --> 1:54:26.759
<v Speaker 1>was different every time. I think the explanation was different

1:54:26.800 --> 1:54:29.880
<v Speaker 1>every time. I don't think she really had a firm

1:54:29.960 --> 1:54:33.000
<v Speaker 1>grasp on what Swished the bish was all about.

1:54:33.080 --> 1:54:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Now, Sarah, if you I mean, did you said you

1:54:36.040 --> 1:54:38.920
<v Speaker 2>were seeing a guy at the time. I assume that

1:54:38.920 --> 1:54:41.360
<v Speaker 2>means you're not anymore, and I hope there were no

1:54:41.520 --> 1:54:43.960
<v Speaker 2>issues with that, But I have issue with you not

1:54:44.000 --> 1:54:46.520
<v Speaker 2>seeing someone who would think of you the moment they

1:54:46.560 --> 1:54:48.240
<v Speaker 2>say Petty Flir, I think that's a green flag.

1:54:48.400 --> 1:54:53.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah. We have another one from Sarah.

1:54:53.760 --> 1:54:57.240
<v Speaker 7>Good morning, Georgia and Sammy. It is Sarah speaking here,

1:54:57.920 --> 1:55:02.839
<v Speaker 7>one time fan of your podcast, not of kind podcasts

1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:06.400
<v Speaker 7>in general. This is my first rodeo. I must say

1:55:06.400 --> 1:55:09.040
<v Speaker 7>it's really weird recommending you to friends where I'm like, yeah,

1:55:09.040 --> 1:55:12.480
<v Speaker 7>there's this awesome podcast. It's about true crime and it

1:55:12.600 --> 1:55:16.280
<v Speaker 7>makes me giggle all day long, and it's really gruesome

1:55:16.480 --> 1:55:19.240
<v Speaker 7>and actually the stories are horrendous, hard one to explain,

1:55:19.520 --> 1:55:22.920
<v Speaker 7>so absolutely love it. I just listened to your story,

1:55:23.000 --> 1:55:27.520
<v Speaker 7>Sammy and Georgia about running into Petiflur at the book Mormon.

1:55:27.640 --> 1:55:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes.

1:55:28.040 --> 1:55:30.360
<v Speaker 7>I thought it was hilarious because I had the exact

1:55:30.920 --> 1:55:33.640
<v Speaker 7>same moment you had, Sammy, but with you when I

1:55:33.720 --> 1:55:36.080
<v Speaker 7>ran into you and Georgia for the moment I was,

1:55:38.480 --> 1:55:40.760
<v Speaker 7>I was like, Sammy, Sammy, Hi, I'm Sarah.

1:55:40.840 --> 1:55:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

1:55:41.280 --> 1:55:44.040
<v Speaker 2>I love your podcast and I just love.

1:55:43.880 --> 1:55:46.040
<v Speaker 7>That episode where all the people in the village in

1:55:46.080 --> 1:55:48.800
<v Speaker 7>America shut down that guy in that car and you

1:55:48.840 --> 1:55:51.720
<v Speaker 7>were just thinking or acting like it was completely normal.

1:55:51.800 --> 1:55:56.200
<v Speaker 7>It is that type of yeah, conversation with someone a

1:55:56.240 --> 1:55:59.800
<v Speaker 7>stranger on the street. Anyway, look forward to seeing you

1:56:00.480 --> 1:56:03.040
<v Speaker 7>at a gig sometime soon. I need to prioritize that, Sammy.

1:56:03.280 --> 1:56:04.360
<v Speaker 8>The great work.

1:56:04.400 --> 1:56:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Guys.

1:56:04.760 --> 1:56:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I love the Pods. Oh, thank you.

1:56:07.600 --> 1:56:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Sarah, love you.

1:56:08.800 --> 1:56:10.920
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like we didn't actually see the show. We

1:56:11.080 --> 1:56:13.680
<v Speaker 2>just were running into And that was in the same

1:56:13.680 --> 1:56:16.440
<v Speaker 2>interval Sarah, when I said we have to go outside

1:56:16.520 --> 1:56:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and see a friend. That's when the second we walked

1:56:19.480 --> 1:56:22.280
<v Speaker 2>outside is when Petty Flue walked towards Sammy and he's

1:56:22.360 --> 1:56:24.720
<v Speaker 2>jo hit the floor. Thank you for writing in Sarah

1:56:24.880 --> 1:56:27.200
<v Speaker 2>You're the best. I know you listen to my podcast.

1:56:27.240 --> 1:56:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Everyone has an ex as well, so thank you.

1:56:29.160 --> 1:56:31.800
<v Speaker 1>For supporting Sarah's the Best. It was so nice. We're

1:56:31.840 --> 1:56:35.640
<v Speaker 1>in line to go and get another drink and classic

1:56:35.840 --> 1:56:38.040
<v Speaker 1>and Sarah called out to me then, and it was

1:56:38.200 --> 1:56:41.080
<v Speaker 1>so nice to get to meet her. I also loved

1:56:41.200 --> 1:56:44.080
<v Speaker 1>that that was the exact moment when Petty Flir.

1:56:44.000 --> 1:56:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Walked in and there were two Sarah's who left speak

1:56:46.960 --> 1:56:47.840
<v Speaker 2>ups about the petty.

1:56:48.200 --> 1:56:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this one comes from J.

1:56:52.240 --> 1:56:54.040
<v Speaker 5>Hello, Sammy and Georgia.

1:56:54.720 --> 1:56:56.680
<v Speaker 4>Just a quick message to say thank you for this

1:56:56.760 --> 1:57:01.880
<v Speaker 4>wonderful podcast. I actually normally hate true crime because it

1:57:02.160 --> 1:57:06.520
<v Speaker 4>really bombs me out. But Sammy, I've been following you

1:57:06.560 --> 1:57:08.520
<v Speaker 4>for years and I will listen to anything you do

1:57:08.600 --> 1:57:10.720
<v Speaker 4>and even brought me around to true crime.

1:57:10.560 --> 1:57:11.560
<v Speaker 1>So thank you for that.

1:57:12.720 --> 1:57:16.600
<v Speaker 4>I just wanted to say that whenever you call Georgia

1:57:16.720 --> 1:57:20.360
<v Speaker 4>g love, I just picked you sitting next to a

1:57:20.400 --> 1:57:29.520
<v Speaker 4>gigantic glove. Anyway, I actually grew up in a house

1:57:29.760 --> 1:57:35.400
<v Speaker 4>where someone was murdered. My parents bought a very beautiful

1:57:35.400 --> 1:57:40.360
<v Speaker 4>old nineteen twenties house for unbelievably cheap had been strangled

1:57:41.040 --> 1:57:44.000
<v Speaker 4>with an exercise rope in there the year prior. So

1:57:44.560 --> 1:57:48.040
<v Speaker 4>still I have somewhat of a personal connection to truth anyway,

1:57:49.080 --> 1:57:51.400
<v Speaker 4>But that's actually not the case that I had to

1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:55.720
<v Speaker 4>suggest that maybe you'd be interested in covering the murder

1:57:55.720 --> 1:58:00.440
<v Speaker 4>of Leelee in Stockton up in Newcastle, in somewh super

1:58:00.720 --> 1:58:03.880
<v Speaker 4>sad murder from the eighties. And I think it's kind

1:58:03.880 --> 1:58:08.200
<v Speaker 4>of like the first time we really discussed like a

1:58:08.280 --> 1:58:10.040
<v Speaker 4>victim blaming in Australia.

1:58:10.200 --> 1:58:11.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I feel like that.

1:58:11.560 --> 1:58:12.480
<v Speaker 1>Would be a cool one.

1:58:12.880 --> 1:58:16.400
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, it's not cool, but a good one to do anyway,

1:58:18.400 --> 1:58:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Thanks so much again, and I hope.

1:58:20.000 --> 1:58:23.320
<v Speaker 1>You have a wonderful day. How about Jack, Thank you

1:58:23.360 --> 1:58:23.760
<v Speaker 1>so much.

1:58:24.360 --> 1:58:26.720
<v Speaker 2>That's about the third person in like the last couple

1:58:26.760 --> 1:58:28.160
<v Speaker 2>of months that suggested that one.

1:58:28.240 --> 1:58:30.280
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I'll do that. I'll do that one. That'd

1:58:30.320 --> 1:58:32.120
<v Speaker 1>be a great one to do. Thank you, Jay, We

1:58:32.160 --> 1:58:34.640
<v Speaker 1>bloody love you. Thank you for all the support as well.

1:58:34.640 --> 1:58:35.640
<v Speaker 1>That's fantastic.

1:58:36.120 --> 1:58:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I hope that other people are picturing me like you

1:58:38.280 --> 1:58:40.360
<v Speaker 2>mean a glove, like a winter glove or like a

1:58:40.400 --> 1:58:44.880
<v Speaker 2>basketball basketball. No, I'm a real baseball glove.

1:58:44.960 --> 1:58:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I kind of think a mantle where I've got

1:58:47.200 --> 1:58:49.440
<v Speaker 1>this big glove just sitting there. What kind of love?

1:58:49.680 --> 1:58:51.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it's a baseball glove in my mind.

1:58:51.240 --> 1:58:51.880
<v Speaker 2>It's really cool.

1:58:52.000 --> 1:58:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm really yeah. We would love to know what

1:58:55.880 --> 1:58:56.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of glove you're thinking.

1:58:58.280 --> 1:58:59.320
<v Speaker 2>What a great shout out.

1:58:59.320 --> 1:59:00.919
<v Speaker 1>This one comes from Grace.

1:59:01.880 --> 1:59:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I love that name.

1:59:03.560 --> 1:59:06.720
<v Speaker 9>Hello, Georgia and Sammy. I just wanted to send you

1:59:06.720 --> 1:59:10.040
<v Speaker 9>in a little speak pipe just to say how much

1:59:10.080 --> 1:59:11.520
<v Speaker 9>I love YouTube.

1:59:11.600 --> 1:59:13.600
<v Speaker 1>This podcast is iconic.

1:59:14.440 --> 1:59:17.120
<v Speaker 9>I found you guys pretty late to the game, so

1:59:17.280 --> 1:59:19.960
<v Speaker 9>my apologies, but it was around the time the Alissa

1:59:20.000 --> 1:59:23.960
<v Speaker 9>lam case came out, and I have been listening ever since.

1:59:24.000 --> 1:59:25.680
<v Speaker 9>I've almost caught up on.

1:59:25.680 --> 1:59:27.560
<v Speaker 1>Every single episode.

1:59:27.920 --> 1:59:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Today. I was actually.

1:59:29.120 --> 1:59:33.320
<v Speaker 9>Listening to the Macis Monopoly fraud case, so pretty early on,

1:59:33.400 --> 1:59:38.080
<v Speaker 9>I feel, and honestly some of the best work.

1:59:38.240 --> 1:59:39.960
<v Speaker 1>It was so funny.

1:59:40.040 --> 1:59:42.880
<v Speaker 9>I was tackling the entire time.

1:59:43.200 --> 1:59:45.520
<v Speaker 2>The banter was so good.

1:59:45.600 --> 1:59:47.160
<v Speaker 9>I mean, the band is good all the time, but

1:59:47.320 --> 1:59:48.960
<v Speaker 9>it was just extra funny.

1:59:49.040 --> 1:59:51.160
<v Speaker 1>I think so yeah.

1:59:51.560 --> 1:59:52.920
<v Speaker 7>Also, Georgia, in one of.

1:59:52.920 --> 1:59:55.880
<v Speaker 9>Your episodes, you asked, what is the name of your pet?

1:59:56.000 --> 1:59:59.400
<v Speaker 9>Although my pet's names are not as good as Poudry,

1:59:59.480 --> 2:00:04.400
<v Speaker 9>Hepburn and Missy Diggins. But I do have a Summer

2:00:04.520 --> 2:00:09.560
<v Speaker 9>Lane and an Oakley May which few names I think

2:00:09.920 --> 2:00:14.720
<v Speaker 9>definitely not as good as Audrey and miss Diggins. Yes,

2:00:15.040 --> 2:00:18.880
<v Speaker 9>and a case I would love to hear is the

2:00:19.120 --> 2:00:21.800
<v Speaker 9>William Tyrell case. I think it's been mentioned a few

2:00:21.800 --> 2:00:24.000
<v Speaker 9>times it has, but never have.

2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:26.680
<v Speaker 1>I heard all the details. Well, as much as we have,

2:00:27.000 --> 2:00:29.360
<v Speaker 1>I think would be such a good case. Anyways, Love

2:00:29.400 --> 2:00:30.200
<v Speaker 1>you guys.

2:00:29.920 --> 2:00:34.600
<v Speaker 2>Bye, oh bye, thank you Grace. Yeah, we've been asked

2:00:34.640 --> 2:00:36.280
<v Speaker 2>about that one too. A lot of people asking for

2:00:36.640 --> 2:00:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Ozzie ones. Yeah, yeah, some more Aussie ones coming up.

2:00:39.600 --> 2:00:42.960
<v Speaker 1>William Tyrell would be uh, you know, it's such a

2:00:43.240 --> 2:00:44.360
<v Speaker 1>big story still.

2:00:44.240 --> 2:00:48.360
<v Speaker 2>Unsolved, but it's such a big story in Australia, particularly.

2:00:48.240 --> 2:00:52.080
<v Speaker 1>A little Spider Man costume. So it's a beautiful, beautiful

2:00:52.440 --> 2:00:54.160
<v Speaker 1>kid that yeah, well we won't go into it, but

2:00:54.240 --> 2:00:56.360
<v Speaker 1>it is it is. That would be an interesting story

2:00:56.400 --> 2:00:59.240
<v Speaker 1>to do and a big one to cover as well.

2:00:59.320 --> 2:01:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Let's do one more speak part just because I don't

2:01:01.480 --> 2:01:05.360
<v Speaker 1>speak parts. This one comes from someone we've heard from before.

2:01:05.400 --> 2:01:09.320
<v Speaker 5>You're already for this, Yeah, Hey, Sammy and Georgia. It's

2:01:09.440 --> 2:01:13.720
<v Speaker 5>Ria from Glasgow in Scotland. Just leaving you a wee

2:01:13.840 --> 2:01:18.320
<v Speaker 5>voice note to say hello and to say how much

2:01:18.440 --> 2:01:21.320
<v Speaker 5>I enjoyed your stand up special Sammy.

2:01:21.360 --> 2:01:24.120
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was wonderful. I laughed, I.

2:01:24.080 --> 2:01:29.280
<v Speaker 5>Cried, I just really really enjoyed it. And yeah, all

2:01:29.320 --> 2:01:33.200
<v Speaker 5>the best to you for the next few months of

2:01:33.280 --> 2:01:37.320
<v Speaker 5>doing regular stand up. That's so exciting, and yeah, I

2:01:37.360 --> 2:01:39.880
<v Speaker 5>hope you love it and you you get everything that

2:01:39.920 --> 2:01:43.520
<v Speaker 5>you want from it. I also wanted to mention the

2:01:43.600 --> 2:01:45.560
<v Speaker 5>Lucy let Be episode. I thought you did a fantastic

2:01:45.640 --> 2:01:49.480
<v Speaker 5>job in the UK. It's been obviously very highly publicized

2:01:49.640 --> 2:01:54.360
<v Speaker 5>and it's in the news pretty much constantly, so I

2:01:54.480 --> 2:01:57.160
<v Speaker 5>quite liked the approach from a fresh pair of eyes.

2:01:57.280 --> 2:01:58.680
<v Speaker 1>I thought that was a, you.

2:01:58.640 --> 2:01:59.880
<v Speaker 5>Know, a novel way of doing it.

2:02:00.120 --> 2:02:02.000
<v Speaker 8>Is most people in the UK know a little bit

2:02:02.040 --> 2:02:05.080
<v Speaker 8>about the backstory and have made up their own opinions,

2:02:05.600 --> 2:02:08.520
<v Speaker 8>so it was refreshing to have somebody have a take

2:02:08.600 --> 2:02:12.840
<v Speaker 8>that was completely fresh. So yeah, and you did a

2:02:12.880 --> 2:02:15.320
<v Speaker 8>fantastic job despite.

2:02:14.960 --> 2:02:16.800
<v Speaker 2>How horrific the actual story is.

2:02:17.000 --> 2:02:18.280
<v Speaker 8>So yeah, well done on that.

2:02:20.200 --> 2:02:24.280
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, I just wanted to check in, and yeah,

2:02:24.280 --> 2:02:27.520
<v Speaker 5>I give give a big cuddle for me. I love that,

2:02:27.560 --> 2:02:29.320
<v Speaker 5>big boy, And.

2:02:29.520 --> 2:02:32.680
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, you take care and enjoy the rest of your days.

2:02:32.840 --> 2:02:33.440
<v Speaker 6>Bye guys.

2:02:33.480 --> 2:02:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, thank you.

2:02:35.040 --> 2:02:36.600
<v Speaker 1>We're such a big fan of you. By the way,

2:02:36.680 --> 2:02:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I love the voice so much. Anytime you call in

2:02:40.480 --> 2:02:42.840
<v Speaker 1>any any message, I love you it so much. It's

2:02:42.880 --> 2:02:43.520
<v Speaker 1>so fantastic.

2:02:43.800 --> 2:02:45.440
<v Speaker 2>I thought you were going to give us the correct

2:02:45.600 --> 2:02:50.440
<v Speaker 2>pronounce because Sammy said that Ricky Moore episode and he

2:02:50.520 --> 2:02:52.560
<v Speaker 2>said in the Scottish people, can you tell us how

2:02:52.600 --> 2:02:54.440
<v Speaker 2>to pronounce? I haven't heard it from actually saw she

2:02:54.560 --> 2:02:56.360
<v Speaker 2>made on the weekend. Yeah, she didn't tell me how

2:02:56.400 --> 2:02:58.680
<v Speaker 2>to forgot to ask to be honest.

2:02:58.760 --> 2:03:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, please do call in if you know how

2:03:01.640 --> 2:03:04.760
<v Speaker 1>to say.

2:03:04.880 --> 2:03:07.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like that, that's exactly.

2:03:07.440 --> 2:03:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Do you think? So do you actually mean that when

2:03:08.960 --> 2:03:12.720
<v Speaker 1>you say that? Yes, thank you everyone for writing in.

2:03:12.840 --> 2:03:16.040
<v Speaker 1>We bloody love to hear from you. All you have

2:03:16.120 --> 2:03:17.400
<v Speaker 1>to do is what you.

2:03:17.440 --> 2:03:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Love door repeat before you get to turn off, because

2:03:22.320 --> 2:03:25.680
<v Speaker 2>people will go, oh, they're they're wrapping up now, So

2:03:25.720 --> 2:03:28.200
<v Speaker 2>I'll do it. I'll show off.

2:03:28.080 --> 2:03:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Show off, show off people. Do you're curious because you're looking.

2:03:32.560 --> 2:03:34.160
<v Speaker 2>After just recognize ever looking for a.

2:03:35.280 --> 2:03:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, whyn't you tell me about this then?

2:03:37.040 --> 2:03:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Huh yeah, I've already done those two. Well, I'm here.

2:03:40.520 --> 2:03:42.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just good to get some admin done. Lines on

2:03:42.680 --> 2:03:43.080
<v Speaker 2>the pod.

2:03:43.800 --> 2:03:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is good.

2:03:45.200 --> 2:03:48.960
<v Speaker 2>I've got to want to go. Clothing labels that are

2:03:49.000 --> 2:03:55.120
<v Speaker 2>scratchy as furk. Yes, your clothing brand, you're about making

2:03:55.120 --> 2:03:57.520
<v Speaker 2>things that people will all day. Don't put the label

2:03:57.680 --> 2:03:59.840
<v Speaker 2>in a place that's going to be scratchy, or don't

2:03:59.880 --> 2:04:01.560
<v Speaker 2>you use it with like don't don't sew it on

2:04:01.600 --> 2:04:04.320
<v Speaker 2>with scratchy things because I hate it because then you

2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:05.960
<v Speaker 2>have to cut it off and then you risk like

2:04:06.000 --> 2:04:09.240
<v Speaker 2>cutting a hole in the garment. Yeah, cut it off,

2:04:09.280 --> 2:04:12.640
<v Speaker 2>which means it doesn't have the care labels on it anymore.

2:04:12.760 --> 2:04:14.800
<v Speaker 2>It's just knowing I hate scratchy clothing labels.

2:04:14.880 --> 2:04:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to say wearing new goddamn shoes is mine

2:04:18.200 --> 2:04:19.560
<v Speaker 1>at the moment when you have to wear them.

2:04:19.440 --> 2:04:21.320
<v Speaker 2>In okay, very more.

2:04:21.800 --> 2:04:24.839
<v Speaker 1>I hurt my back. I was dealing with the goddamn

2:04:24.920 --> 2:04:26.520
<v Speaker 1>sore feet. That's what I'm dealing with at the moment.

2:04:26.840 --> 2:04:29.120
<v Speaker 1>And before my back, you've.

2:04:29.040 --> 2:04:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Probably been holding your back wrong because you've been your feet.

2:04:31.360 --> 2:04:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Maybe that could did you get I've got some lovely

2:04:34.120 --> 2:04:38.200
<v Speaker 1>new country road boots and it was very very very

2:04:38.240 --> 2:04:40.240
<v Speaker 1>small for a couple of days walk in the city

2:04:40.240 --> 2:04:42.880
<v Speaker 1>wearing those in so I feel like you know, I was,

2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:45.080
<v Speaker 1>I was dancing, I was singing, I was having just

2:04:45.080 --> 2:04:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the best time because I felt so proud. He's wonderful

2:04:48.720 --> 2:04:49.680
<v Speaker 1>in my new boots.

2:04:49.440 --> 2:04:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And you looked proud and wonderful. I have the third

2:04:52.960 --> 2:04:55.000
<v Speaker 2>life hack for this episode. I know it's going to

2:04:55.080 --> 2:04:58.400
<v Speaker 2>come around to three. When you get new leather shoes,

2:04:58.600 --> 2:05:02.360
<v Speaker 2>in particular, you need to wear in y. You put

2:05:02.400 --> 2:05:06.520
<v Speaker 2>a heap of newspaper scrunched up in them and then

2:05:06.720 --> 2:05:08.800
<v Speaker 2>leave them like that for a long time because then

2:05:08.840 --> 2:05:10.920
<v Speaker 2>that kind of stretches them a bit before your feet

2:05:11.000 --> 2:05:11.680
<v Speaker 2>have to do it.

2:05:11.800 --> 2:05:14.080
<v Speaker 1>That's a good life hat.

2:05:14.160 --> 2:05:16.320
<v Speaker 2>And I will say, when you said wearing new shoes,

2:05:16.360 --> 2:05:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like, whoa, No, take that back, because I

2:05:18.000 --> 2:05:20.320
<v Speaker 2>think new runners are like the comfiest things in the

2:05:20.360 --> 2:05:20.680
<v Speaker 2>whole world.

2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh they are, but yeah, gorgeous boots. Gorgeous boots that

2:05:24.160 --> 2:05:27.600
<v Speaker 1>everyone goes, hey, just quite beauty.

2:05:29.040 --> 2:05:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Shine them.

2:05:30.000 --> 2:05:31.960
<v Speaker 1>I did shine them, and I get them shined every

2:05:32.040 --> 2:05:35.840
<v Speaker 1>day by Diggs's licks. I want to say real quick

2:05:36.080 --> 2:05:38.240
<v Speaker 1>that there is a little connection to what I'm about

2:05:38.240 --> 2:05:41.320
<v Speaker 1>to say. Thank you, Oliver Clark for doing the music.

2:05:41.520 --> 2:05:44.120
<v Speaker 1>I had a drink with Oliver Clark on the weekend

2:05:44.240 --> 2:05:47.840
<v Speaker 1>in between one of my gish and can I just

2:05:47.920 --> 2:05:53.080
<v Speaker 1>say he is the best goddamn guy. I know we've

2:05:53.120 --> 2:05:54.560
<v Speaker 1>been friends for so long, but I just want to

2:05:54.640 --> 2:05:55.320
<v Speaker 1>shout him out.

2:05:55.520 --> 2:05:59.920
<v Speaker 3>I also want to shout out a company in Bayswater

2:06:00.240 --> 2:06:03.520
<v Speaker 3>g Love because let me tell you this, my little

2:06:04.800 --> 2:06:06.160
<v Speaker 3>noll No no, this is not spon con.

2:06:06.760 --> 2:06:10.360
<v Speaker 1>My little you know, my clicker for my garage. So

2:06:10.520 --> 2:06:12.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, why don't we do a podry peeve. I

2:06:12.560 --> 2:06:15.240
<v Speaker 1>want to do a dooting digs or something about this.

2:06:15.680 --> 2:06:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

2:06:16.280 --> 2:06:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Because I had a little garage key and I was like, shit,

2:06:21.640 --> 2:06:23.640
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't work anymore. I'm going to have to go in.

2:06:23.680 --> 2:06:26.240
<v Speaker 1>I changed the batteries. It wasn't working or anything. I

2:06:26.280 --> 2:06:29.520
<v Speaker 1>called the guy who was just the number on the back.

2:06:29.800 --> 2:06:31.880
<v Speaker 1>I called him and he goes, oh, yeah, all it

2:06:32.000 --> 2:06:35.480
<v Speaker 1>is is it's a number on the back, and so

2:06:35.560 --> 2:06:37.800
<v Speaker 1>all you have to do is something that's misplaced, and

2:06:37.800 --> 2:06:39.800
<v Speaker 1>all you have to do is change this little number

2:06:39.840 --> 2:06:43.480
<v Speaker 1>and it'll work perfectly for you. And it did. And

2:06:43.560 --> 2:06:45.280
<v Speaker 1>it could have cost me a lot of money to

2:06:45.320 --> 2:06:47.160
<v Speaker 1>go in and do that. And he was just the

2:06:47.240 --> 2:06:50.200
<v Speaker 1>loveliest guy on the phone that just told me the

2:06:50.280 --> 2:06:52.800
<v Speaker 1>right code that it had to be and a dumb

2:06:52.840 --> 2:06:56.040
<v Speaker 1>boy like me. That's a good friend of mine you're

2:06:56.160 --> 2:06:59.200
<v Speaker 1>talking about. But I was like, oh my god, this

2:06:59.440 --> 2:07:03.200
<v Speaker 1>he made everything easier and it was just really nice.

2:07:03.280 --> 2:07:06.000
<v Speaker 1>That's my name. His name was Carl.

2:07:06.240 --> 2:07:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Have you made that up? We still a big pause

2:07:07.680 --> 2:07:08.240
<v Speaker 2>before you said that.

2:07:08.320 --> 2:07:10.680
<v Speaker 1>No, it was Carl, and he was a really really

2:07:10.760 --> 2:07:14.280
<v Speaker 1>nice guy. So thank you Carl for actually not charging

2:07:14.320 --> 2:07:16.160
<v Speaker 1>me and just being a great guy. Because it says

2:07:16.240 --> 2:07:19.360
<v Speaker 1>book a technician and I was a million but he

2:07:19.440 --> 2:07:20.480
<v Speaker 1>just did it on the phone for free.

2:07:20.600 --> 2:07:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Well done, Carl. That's good doting digs for it.

2:07:22.680 --> 2:07:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that nice? Hey? G love? Can people follow.

2:07:25.640 --> 2:07:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Us Instagram and TikTok and not another crime podcast? You

2:07:28.640 --> 2:07:31.040
<v Speaker 2>can watch us on YouTube you just search none of

2:07:31.080 --> 2:07:32.680
<v Speaker 2>the Crime Buster as well. You can email us at

2:07:32.680 --> 2:07:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Samia just another company dot com dot au can send

2:07:35.600 --> 2:07:37.920
<v Speaker 2>us a voice note. The website is called speak Pipe.

2:07:37.960 --> 2:07:40.240
<v Speaker 2>The link is in our show notes. You can use

2:07:40.440 --> 2:07:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Lewis's Excel spreadsheet to find other places you can watch

2:07:45.560 --> 2:07:48.320
<v Speaker 2>and hear about the stories we've done. On our Instagram

2:07:48.360 --> 2:07:51.720
<v Speaker 2>page as well, and that's all A good night.

2:07:53.680 --> 2:07:57.600
<v Speaker 1>You did a really good job there, sweet girl on

2:07:57.640 --> 2:08:01.680
<v Speaker 1>your girlfriend. We've only a one more thing to say, everybody.

2:08:03.640 --> 2:08:03.840
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

2:08:03.920 --> 2:08:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Ready three two TikTok book talk stuff. We didn't even

2:08:09.800 --> 2:08:11.160
<v Speaker 2>talk about books this episode.

2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Don't need to. Fantastic catch Froze