Speaker 1: Are you trapped in an exhausting cycle of achievement but
Speaker 1: without fulfillment? Do you lie awake at night wondering how
Speaker 1: success or status can just feel so empty? What if
Speaker 1: the gap between your exhausted reality and your greatest life
Speaker 1: could be bridged by simple mindset shifts? And what if
Speaker 1: transformation required minutes and not months. My good friend Sarah
Speaker 1: Grimberg has been there, and she has made the improvements
Speaker 1: needed to completely.
Speaker 2: Change her life.
Speaker 1: Sarah hit a point a few years ago where she
Speaker 1: felt utterly exhausted and unfulfilled, even with all that she
Speaker 1: had achieved in her career and at the time being
Speaker 1: an executive producer of one of Australia's top breakfast radio shows.
Speaker 1: That's when she decided to dive deeper into the mind
Speaker 1: body connection. Now, Sarah is the host of the chart
Speaker 1: topping podcast A Life of Greatness and one of the
Speaker 1: most requested podcast interviewers for international guests such as Matthew mcconachie,
Speaker 1: Andrew Huberman and Esther Perell, as well as being a
Speaker 1: mindset coach and author of the newly released book Living
Speaker 1: a Life of Greatness. In this episode, Sarah reveals how
Speaker 1: you can change your negative thoughts to create a more
Speaker 1: positive outlook on life, while gossiping is actually making your
Speaker 1: life a whole lot worse, and a simple decision making
Speaker 1: hack to improve your life dramatically. Welcome to How I Work,
Speaker 1: a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for optimizing your day.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. In her book Living
Speaker 1: a Life of Greatness, Sarah talks about how she hit
Speaker 1: an all time low before finally making the changes she
Speaker 1: needed to ensure a happier and greater life. To start
Speaker 1: things off, I wanted to know what was going on
Speaker 1: and how got to that low point.
Speaker 3: This was particularly bad, and you know, something really interesting.
Speaker 3: And this is how the brain works is we forget
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff that we do. You know, I
Speaker 3: can barely remember if you said to me, what did
Speaker 3: you do last weekend? I'd probably be sitting there for
Speaker 3: five minutes trying to work out what I did last weekend,
Speaker 3: you know, because we're so busy in our lives. But
Speaker 3: when something is terrible and something is amazing, the brain
Speaker 3: takes a snapshot and it's you know, it stays within
Speaker 3: it so I can remember this like it was the
Speaker 3: other day.
Speaker 4: I remember exactly.
Speaker 3: I was sitting on my couch and I'd been doing
Speaker 3: breakfast radio for a period of time, and I was
Speaker 3: so excited to get this job. Initially in breakfast radio,
Speaker 3: as you would know from having a podcast yourself and
Speaker 3: being within media, the breakfast radio show is like the
Speaker 3: krem de la creme of any show at a station.
Speaker 3: So being a you know, a senior producer for this
Speaker 3: breakfast show was like such a great job. And I'd
Speaker 3: produced for a while and so when I got given
Speaker 3: that job, it was like, wow, this is amazing everything
Speaker 3: on the outside from an external point of view, the
Speaker 3: money I was getting paid, you know, the talent I
Speaker 3: was working with, being a producer for this like great
Speaker 3: entertainment show at one of the biggest stations in Australia.
Speaker 4: Everything looked great.
Speaker 3: And then as that year progressed and I did the show,
Speaker 3: it was absolutely exhausting, you know, waking up at three
Speaker 3: am five days a week, and I had a two
Speaker 3: year old and a four year old. I was just
Speaker 3: so tired. But I was miserable. I wasn't happy in
Speaker 3: the work that I was doing. I was really beginning
Speaker 3: to become run down, you know, those habits that you have.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's exercise or meditation.
Speaker 3: I didn't really meditate before then, but I just wasn't
Speaker 3: able to do a lot of them because I was
Speaker 3: absolutely exhausted. When you're absolutely exhausted, the worst thoughts start
Speaker 3: coming into your mind. So that particular day that you're
Speaker 3: talking about, I woke up really sick. I had a
Speaker 3: really really bad case of the flu. And I remember
Speaker 3: being actually even too scared to call my boss, thinking like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to call him sick, like that's how
Speaker 3: not in a good place I was. And anyway I did,
Speaker 3: because I remember getting out of bed naturally nearly collapsing
Speaker 3: like fainting because my blood pressure just dropped. I was
Speaker 3: so unwell so called him and said I can't come in.
Speaker 3: I went back to sleep, and then when I woke up,
Speaker 3: I crawled my and found my way to the couch,
Speaker 3: and I remember just staring outside it was like a
Speaker 3: really cold winter's day in Melbourne, and just thinking like,
Speaker 3: how did life become like this? How did I become
Speaker 3: so sad and felt so broken? And then you know,
Speaker 3: the tears started flooding, And I don't know why.
Speaker 4: I thought this, but I did. I thought, the only.
Speaker 3: Way now that I can change this situation is if
Speaker 3: I change. I need to make the change myself to
Speaker 3: be able to move my life forward, because I can't
Speaker 3: go on like this, like this is a terrible place
Speaker 3: to be. I made that decision and I followed through
Speaker 3: with it, and that's when everything changed.
Speaker 1: You talk about how there were several small changes that
Speaker 1: you made initially after coming to that realization. Do you
Speaker 1: remember what were those specific changes that you started to make.
Speaker 4: So you know?
Speaker 3: The first thing was I wanted to really educate myself
Speaker 3: about the mind body connection, about the way the brain works,
Speaker 3: why some people are happier than others. Why you can
Speaker 3: find on the outside some people who look like they
Speaker 3: have everything, but they're miserable, and yet there are others
Speaker 3: who don't have much and seem to be so happy.
Speaker 4: Like why. I was curious. I was like, why is that?
Speaker 3: So I ended up really diving into a lot of
Speaker 3: personal development work, and I met this guy it was
Speaker 3: actually at a coffee shop who ended up kind of
Speaker 3: becoming a mentor to me. And he had studied it,
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time in an ashram. He'd studied Buddhism,
Speaker 3: and he knew a lot about the personal development world,
Speaker 3: and learning through him and my own studies, I really started.
Speaker 3: The first thing was becoming consciously aware. So before that
Speaker 3: I was completely unconscious, as most of us are because
Speaker 3: we don't understand what being conscious is. And I started
Speaker 3: to watch my mind because there's this beautiful quote by
Speaker 3: the Sufi poet Roomy which says, why do you keep
Speaker 3: yourself in jail when the door is open?
Speaker 4: And that was my life.
Speaker 3: My mind would make me so sad Amantha, even though
Speaker 3: nothing bad had happened, and you know that happens a lot,
Speaker 3: because you know, for me, I came from a family
Speaker 3: of warriers, and they worried because they just wanted good
Speaker 3: things and for you to be okay. But when you
Speaker 3: grow up around people who are always worrying, you take
Speaker 3: that on too. But everything can be changed, right, So
Speaker 3: I would always worry about things. And the first thing
Speaker 3: that I did was try and change my thought patterns,
Speaker 3: and that made a huge difference in my life. I
Speaker 3: became very conscious about what I was thinking, about what
Speaker 3: I was saying, and my actions too.
Speaker 2: How do you change your thoughts?
Speaker 3: So once we have a negative thought, it's very hard
Speaker 3: to change that, but the way that we can disrupt
Speaker 3: that thought is by moving to the better feeling thought.
Speaker 3: I'm a mindset coach and so I teach a lot
Speaker 3: of my clients as this. We have I think it's
Speaker 3: something like sixty five seventy thousand thoughts.
Speaker 4: A day or something like that.
Speaker 3: Eighty percent of those are negative and ninety five percent
Speaker 3: of those are repetitive. So if you're having negative thoughts,
Speaker 3: most of them are the same thoughts every day, right,
Speaker 3: So learning how to change those thoughts is very helpful.
Speaker 3: Think about something that brings you joy or brings you
Speaker 3: love in your life. So it might be your dog,
Speaker 3: or a person, or even a destination, whatever it is,
Speaker 3: have the knowledge in your mind of what that thing
Speaker 3: that brings you love and joy is. And let's take
Speaker 3: the example of a dog. You think of your dog
Speaker 3: brings you love and joy. Every time that negative thought
Speaker 3: comes up, you immediately move to the better feeling thought of.
Speaker 4: Thinking about your dog.
Speaker 3: When you start doing this, you could be doing this
Speaker 3: like sixty seventy times a day. The more you do it,
Speaker 3: and it'll only work if you keep doing this, the
Speaker 3: more that the brain and we know this from neuroplasticity
Speaker 3: starts to rewire itself. The more it starts to rewire
Speaker 3: itself into having those better feeling thoughts and not the
Speaker 3: negative thoughts. And the more you do it, the more
Speaker 3: the negative thoughts stop happening, and the more the better
Speaker 3: feeling thoughts start. If you get into a situation, which
Speaker 3: a lot of us do, and I still get into
Speaker 3: situations like this, two thirty in the morning, wide awake,
Speaker 3: the rumination starts happening. Oh my god, I got that email.
Speaker 3: Did they mean this? They probably meant the worst thing
Speaker 3: in the world. Oh my god, it's going to end
Speaker 3: up being X, Y and Z. I'm going to lose
Speaker 3: my house. I'm going to you know, like the worst
Speaker 3: thoughts come at that time, right, So this is a
Speaker 3: great way of being able to help that rumination. The
Speaker 3: first thing you do is you look at the thought
Speaker 3: and say, the thought was Sally doesn't like me.
Speaker 4: So you test the thought. Do you know for sure
Speaker 4: that Sally doesn't like you?
Speaker 3: Ninety percent of the time, I promise you will not
Speaker 3: know for sure that Sally doesn't like you.
Speaker 4: So that's the first thing.
Speaker 3: When we start questioning the negative thought, it alleviates any stress.
Speaker 3: The second thing is external and internal levels of control.
Speaker 3: If you know for sure that Sally doesn't like you
Speaker 3: external levels of control, can you do something about it?
Speaker 3: Quite possibly, you could go and talk to her and
Speaker 3: speak to her about the feelings that you think that
Speaker 3: she has. Maybe you could write her an email, whatever
Speaker 3: it is. So then that alleviates that if there is
Speaker 3: nothing you can do in the knowledge of Sally not
Speaker 3: liking you, and that's really upsetting you, we go to
Speaker 3: the next step, which is the acceptance. The acceptance of
Speaker 3: the fact that Sally doesn't like me and there's nothing
Speaker 3: that I can do, but I'm going to accept.
Speaker 4: That and move on.
Speaker 3: And then every time that comes up, I move to
Speaker 3: that better feeling thought.
Speaker 4: So those habits.
Speaker 3: And using that has absolutely changed my life.
Speaker 2: How do you catch those thoughts?
Speaker 1: I must say, I'm reminded of a quote that you
Speaker 1: put in your book based on one of your podcast guests,
Speaker 1: Marissa Pierre, and she said that as little as four
Speaker 1: percent of our worries will ever take shape, which blew
Speaker 1: my mind but also really resonated. How do you catch
Speaker 1: yourself when you're in that worrying or catastrophizing state, whether that.
Speaker 2: Be at two thirty in the morning or just one
Speaker 2: roundom ut, I have.
Speaker 3: To say that Mark Twain, I think it was him,
Speaker 3: also said I've had so many worries in the world,
Speaker 3: none which have ever come true.
Speaker 2: Est I love that you know.
Speaker 3: And I remember having a conversation with someone and they
Speaker 3: said I had mentioned that exact thing on a podcast
Speaker 3: episode that I had done, and they said, it made
Speaker 3: me feel so much better when you said that. So
Speaker 3: you become consciously aware. If you're consciously aware, you were
Speaker 3: always watching your thoughts. And when you're always watching your thoughts,
Speaker 3: when you start worrying, you realize that you're worrying, and
Speaker 3: then you use the techniques that I just started speaking about.
Speaker 3: But another thing to also make sure of when we
Speaker 3: talk about conscious awareness is being consciously aware of the
Speaker 3: way that you talked about yourself. You know, you might
Speaker 3: say to yourself, oh, I look so awful in that
Speaker 3: I've put on weight and I feel terrible, or I'm
Speaker 3: not good enough.
Speaker 4: To get that job.
Speaker 3: When we become conscious of that, we're able to change it.
Speaker 4: A belief is just a.
Speaker 3: Thought you keep thinking, nothing more. So if you test
Speaker 3: that is it true? And if you know that, why
Speaker 3: wouldn't you fill yourself with better beliefs?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: A belief is just a thought you keep thinking. I
Speaker 3: might believe this about myself something negative. Doesn't mean Amantha
Speaker 3: thinks that about me. It's just a belief that I have.
Speaker 4: And knowing that.
Speaker 3: Alleviates so much stress. So being consciously aware, noticing when
Speaker 3: we're worrying, noticing when we're talking negatively to ourselves about ourselves.
Speaker 3: But also one thing I want to allow people to
Speaker 3: know is being very consciously aware about the words that
Speaker 3: we say about others and the words that come out
Speaker 3: of our mouths to others that aren't nice that have
Speaker 3: to do with a that person or be talking about
Speaker 3: other people. And when we gossip, it's like that triangular theory, right,
Speaker 3: in the sense that someone comes to gossip about someone
Speaker 3: with you, they try and become closer to you through gossip,
Speaker 3: say oh, did you.
Speaker 4: See this person?
Speaker 3: God, they're so annoying when they say X, Y and
Speaker 3: Z it and you say, yeah, I agree, data da right,
Speaker 3: And it's a way of trying to bond with you.
Speaker 3: It's not a good way of trying to bond with you.
Speaker 3: There's one thing about asking for advice or venting in
Speaker 3: a sense where it really is like they need advice
Speaker 3: from you, Like, I don't know what to do about
Speaker 3: this person. It's upset me. Can you give me advice?
Speaker 3: It's very different to gossiping. Really, once you stop engaging
Speaker 3: in that negative banter, you'll find that the people that
Speaker 3: come into your life are a lot more positive as well,
Speaker 3: because you won't want to hang around those negative people.
Speaker 4: So it's really a win win.
Speaker 2: It's funny.
Speaker 1: I always feel that whenever I'm having a negative thought
Speaker 1: about someone and I express it in conversation, I'm like,
Speaker 1: where is that coming from?
Speaker 2: Why am I feeling the need to say that?
Speaker 1: And often it's because I'm feeling insecure or not enough
Speaker 1: or inferior in some way, and so by putting someone
Speaker 1: else down, it's going to raise me up and make
Speaker 1: me feel better. And I feel like that's probably it's
Speaker 1: behind a lot of people's motivation two percent.
Speaker 4: But how good that you're consciously aware.
Speaker 2: What do you do when you notice it in yourself?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like I will have that thought, I'll
Speaker 1: have that awareness a lot of the time, but I'll
Speaker 1: still be feeling like, ah, what they did is so
Speaker 1: irritating or you know, like, I just don't feel the
Speaker 1: need to get it off my chest, even though I
Speaker 1: know that it is completely you know, misguided and not
Speaker 1: serving anyone at all by saying that if you need.
Speaker 4: To get it off your chest.
Speaker 3: What I would advise is like telling someone like potentially
Speaker 3: it could be your fiance or someone that or a
Speaker 3: best friend, where they're going to look at you and go,
Speaker 3: you're being.
Speaker 4: Ridiculous and pull you back.
Speaker 3: Like one of my best friends if I ever ran
Speaker 3: to her and i can hear myself doing it and
Speaker 3: I'm very consciously aware of doing it, and I don't
Speaker 3: feel good after I've done it, She'll say to me, like,
Speaker 3: you know, where's that coming from. I don't feel like
Speaker 3: what you're saying maybe is justified, And I'll be like,
Speaker 3: you know what, You're completely right. Try and say to
Speaker 3: the people that are conscious so they can say something
Speaker 3: back in return that will make you reflect on what
Speaker 3: you've been saying, rather than talking about it to people
Speaker 3: who are unconscious and they're just going to fuel that fire,
Speaker 3: which a lot of people do.
Speaker 1: How do you think about this in the workplace, because
Speaker 1: I feel, you know, there's so much talk about creating
Speaker 1: psychologically safe workplaces, and one of the things that can
Speaker 1: quickly damage that is an environment where there's bitchiness and blame.
Speaker 1: And you know, having been a leader or a manager
Speaker 1: of people for many years now, I have had the
Speaker 1: I guess displeasure of having you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: people come to me to have a vent or a
Speaker 1: winge about someone else, and I often think, where's the
Speaker 1: line where do I, as a leader need to just
Speaker 1: let the person get stuff off their chest because they're
Speaker 1: obviously feeling really frustrated with the way someone else has behaved,
Speaker 1: Versus where do I need to adopt more of an
Speaker 1: approach that we've been talking about and help them unpack
Speaker 1: why is this really affecting them so much?
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's all in your response, right, So
Speaker 3: the fact that I mean, it's very obviously dependent on
Speaker 3: what they say, but if you feel what they're saying.
Speaker 3: And look, most people are going to come to their boss,
Speaker 3: most not all, and say something that they've been upset
Speaker 3: by someone, and that's completely justified. And I think that
Speaker 3: people should one hundred percent talk up. So that's the
Speaker 3: first thing, and it's about the constructive advice.
Speaker 4: That you give them.
Speaker 3: It's something that you need to talk to them about
Speaker 3: or maybe take away and reflect on it. You don't
Speaker 3: have to answer them straight away, but take the information,
Speaker 3: sit with it, and then when you have allow them
Speaker 3: to then come back and give them a pathway to
Speaker 3: be able to move forward.
Speaker 4: As the leader, as the boss, you need to be
Speaker 4: helpful back.
Speaker 3: And helpfulness might be, you know, if they're saying something
Speaker 3: which is really not justified and it's actually very mean
Speaker 3: to the other person, would be maybe for them to
Speaker 3: look inside themselves and reflect on why they feel like that,
Speaker 3: but don't make them feel terrible. So a lot of
Speaker 3: it does lie on you, but allowing them to reflect
Speaker 3: on what they're saying as well.
Speaker 1: I want to move on to I guess a related
Speaker 1: topic of forgiveness, and I know it's something that you've
Speaker 1: thought a lot about and I think about in my
Speaker 1: own life where I remember in my early twenties, it
Speaker 1: was probably the first time I'd had a really, really
Speaker 1: big falling out with someone and it was a really
Speaker 1: close friend.
Speaker 2: I had a crush on a guy.
Speaker 1: She ended up going home with that guy one night
Speaker 1: and I was devastated and I was really pissed, and
Speaker 1: that friendship never recovered. And I don't think all it
Speaker 1: took many years for me to forgive her. How do
Speaker 1: you think about forgiveness, because obviously it's probably not that
Speaker 1: healthy living with such negative feelings towards someone.
Speaker 3: Forgiveness is not letting the other person off the hook.
Speaker 3: It's allowing yourself to be free.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And the example in the book that I give is
Speaker 3: of Scarlett Lewis, and Scarlett Lewis is the mother of
Speaker 3: Jesse Lewis, and Jesse Lewis was part of the Sandy
Speaker 3: Hook massacre in the sense that he was in Grade one.
Speaker 3: I think he was five or six going to school
Speaker 3: that day, and a man who was twenty years old
Speaker 3: came in with a gun and nearly shot that whole
Speaker 3: Grade one class to death, and Jesse died within that
Speaker 3: he actually saved about six or seven of his class
Speaker 3: members because he started yelling and alerted the other class
Speaker 3: members that the gunman was in their room and they
Speaker 3: had time to run.
Speaker 4: Everyone else died.
Speaker 3: If you want to think of a story of forgiveness,
Speaker 3: of how anyone could forgive a man who comes and
Speaker 3: shoots children in a classroom where they're supposed to be safe,
Speaker 3: you would think she could never do that. And so
Speaker 3: when I spoke to her on my podcast, she talked
Speaker 3: about how she had to really look within herself to
Speaker 3: understand that again, she forgave the guy that came in
Speaker 3: and shot everyone because she knew that if she did
Speaker 3: not forgive him, she would.
Speaker 4: Forever have a horrible life herself.
Speaker 3: Right, So we're not saying something that someone does something
Speaker 3: bad to you and then two weeks later you need
Speaker 3: to have absolutely forgiven them. Forgiveness is done on your
Speaker 3: own timeline. But again I have to say this that
Speaker 3: it's about letting yourself be free, not letting them off
Speaker 3: the hook. And really, in the situation of Scarlet, she
Speaker 3: went and she looked, and she found out that the
Speaker 3: boy had special needs, and her oldest son had special needs,
Speaker 3: and the system had let her down with her son
Speaker 3: and Adam Lander, who was the gunman.
Speaker 4: His mother was a single mother like she was.
Speaker 3: She tried to get help for him, it didn't work,
Speaker 3: and I mean Adam ended up killing the mother too.
Speaker 4: And she knew all of.
Speaker 3: This, So in her mind, she was acknowledging a lot
Speaker 3: of the reasons of how this could help allow her
Speaker 3: to be the one that was able to forgive, and
Speaker 3: a lot of the people at Sandy Hook never forgave,
Speaker 3: and you know, they've lost their children. That's one of
Speaker 3: the most shocking things ever. But she did and now
Speaker 3: she puts a lot of that forgiveness into service, and
Speaker 3: she has a beautiful charity that she runs in the
Speaker 3: name of Jesse that helps people. She goes out to
Speaker 3: schools and she educates people about love and you know,
Speaker 3: she doesn't want kids to get into the situation that
Speaker 3: they'll be like the boy that ended.
Speaker 4: Up killing her son.
Speaker 1: We will be back with Sarah soon and when we return,
Speaker 1: she'll share her advice on how to quickly and easily
Speaker 1: build rapport with anyone, some easy meditation techniques for beginners
Speaker 1: who struggle to get into it like me, and a
Speaker 1: simple mindset shift that can improve your decision making dramatically.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way
Speaker 1: you work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter
Speaker 1: that contains I've discovered that have helped me personally. You
Speaker 1: can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. That's
Speaker 1: Amantha dot com. You mentioned in your book about how
Speaker 1: your husband makes decisions and he asks the question that's something.
Speaker 2: Like, what is the intention.
Speaker 1: Yes, can you tell me more about what your husband
Speaker 1: does there?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: I mean he's so amazing like this, and he taught
Speaker 3: this to me years and years.
Speaker 4: Ago, especially when it comes to writing emails.
Speaker 3: You know, we send so many emails out or we
Speaker 3: might make a lot of phone calls whatever it is
Speaker 3: within business, and we don't even think anything behind the email,
Speaker 3: like I just got to answer this, I've got to
Speaker 3: give a reply, or I've got to send this out
Speaker 3: to get what I want right. But when we move
Speaker 3: through any of those things and take a moment, and
Speaker 3: it can be honestly seconds, this is not going to
Speaker 3: take up a lot of your day and think to yourself,
Speaker 3: what is my intention I'm writing? I'm about to write
Speaker 3: this email because you know, I'm need to get this
Speaker 3: from a supplier. But what is my intention for this email?
Speaker 3: What will allow them to get the most out of
Speaker 3: whatever it is, and what will allow me to get the.
Speaker 4: Most out of whatever the situation is.
Speaker 3: And then it ends up that the way you craft
Speaker 3: that email is a lot better because you have an
Speaker 3: intention behind it. What's my intention of coming on this
Speaker 3: podcast today? Because I want to teach people how to
Speaker 3: live their greatest life right, So that is my intention,
Speaker 3: rather than I just come on the podcast and I
Speaker 3: really don't think twice about it. Oh it's just a
Speaker 3: podcast chat, that's not it. I want to help people
Speaker 3: on their journey.
Speaker 4: It gives meaning behind a lot of what you're doing. Right,
Speaker 4: What is my intention?
Speaker 3: So when we live life looking and thinking about what
Speaker 3: is the intention, you'll find that you'll become quite a
Speaker 3: lot happier. And then anything that you do with the
Speaker 3: other person makes it a far more joyful experience.
Speaker 2: How do you do that in the moment?
Speaker 1: Like, I'm thinking about my evening last night and my
Speaker 1: daughter was in a shocking mood and for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: her school had had them out in the thirty two
Speaker 1: degree heat for an hour right in the middle of
Speaker 1: the day playing sports. She was exhausted and my patience
Speaker 1: was limited and I was fine, but I wasn't my
Speaker 1: best self. What should I have done in that moment?
Speaker 1: Because my intention is always to be the best mum
Speaker 1: that I can.
Speaker 4: What did she come to you with whend she say something?
Speaker 4: She was just tired.
Speaker 1: I was trying to make conversation with her on the
Speaker 1: way home and try to think about something fun that
Speaker 1: we could do after school and she just didn't want a.
Speaker 2: Bar of it.
Speaker 3: Well, I think you know you have an intention, Okay,
Speaker 3: My intention is obviously to make her feel a bit
Speaker 3: happier because she's only young.
Speaker 4: Firstly. Secondly, I'm her mother.
Speaker 3: I take care of her, and I totally understand the
Speaker 3: fact that she's been running around in thirty five degree
Speaker 3: heat and she's little, and she probably hasn't drunk enough
Speaker 3: water or maybe she needs to have something to eat,
Speaker 3: and she's grumpy.
Speaker 4: So you know, your intention is to make her feel better.
Speaker 3: And you know, so she's young, so she can be
Speaker 3: grumpy and you're still gonna love her and she's your daughter.
Speaker 3: But for moments, you become unconscious and you end up
Speaker 3: maybe saying things that you shouldn't, and you get annoyed
Speaker 3: because you're trying to be nice to her and give
Speaker 3: her all these things and she's not really doing anything
Speaker 3: back except being rude or whatever the situation is. But
Speaker 3: that's okay because you had actually had a good intention, right,
Speaker 3: and it's just to keep moving forward with that good intention.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't control other people, right, you can't,
Speaker 3: But if you show up being your best self.
Speaker 4: Then they're going to end up looking.
Speaker 3: At you, and you're a role model for that. And
Speaker 3: if we go unconscious sometimes that's completely human. I mean,
Speaker 3: of course I go unconscious sometimes, but I know when
Speaker 3: I go unconscious sometimes you're bringing it up. You know
Speaker 3: that you are unconscious during that moment, and I think
Speaker 3: to myself, I got to do better next time, and
Speaker 3: that's gross.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about meditation because I think whatever
Speaker 1: we catch up, probably we talk about meditation. You talk
Speaker 1: about meditation, I say I have trouble meditating.
Speaker 2: That's probably how I respond. And when I read in your.
Speaker 1: Book Living a Life of Greatness about your approach to meditation,
Speaker 1: something kind of clicked and I thought, I've never thought
Speaker 1: about meditation in that way.
Speaker 2: When I think about meditation, and.
Speaker 1: I'm someone that has tried different kinds of meditation, I've
Speaker 1: tried different kinds of apps, nothing is.
Speaker 2: Stack always feel like a failure.
Speaker 1: I always think that the purpose of meditation is to
Speaker 1: just clear your mind and just be present in the
Speaker 1: present moment and aware of your body, and I just
Speaker 1: get really bored and then my mind wanders and then
Speaker 1: I'm failing. And the way you've framed it in the
Speaker 1: book is it's just listening to your own thoughts.
Speaker 2: And that made me think, oh, I can do that,
Speaker 2: Like I don't think I can clear my mind.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I always think about meditations just
Speaker 1: pushing the thoughts away when they come up.
Speaker 2: But can you tell me a bit more about how
Speaker 2: you meditate?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, Realistically, unless you're a monk that's meditated for
Speaker 3: so many years and something that you do for majority
Speaker 3: of the day, you're never going to meditate where you
Speaker 3: have no thoughts. The mind moves at one hundred miles
Speaker 3: an hour when we go into meditation. It's about realizing
Speaker 3: what we're thinking and not judging it, but looking at
Speaker 3: at it like it's a cloud, just kind.
Speaker 4: Of drifting in there and a little drift out of there.
Speaker 3: The one thing with meditation is you have to do
Speaker 3: it consistently. It's not something you can do once a
Speaker 3: week and think like that's going to make it change
Speaker 3: in my life, right, It just isn't. You know, Even
Speaker 3: if you don't do it for a long period of time,
Speaker 3: you're doing it for ten minutes five days a week.
Speaker 3: To do it every day is mostly beneficial, But even
Speaker 3: just ten minutes, five days a week will make such
Speaker 3: a difference because it starts slowing your brain waves down,
Speaker 3: and the purpose of meditation is to do that. In
Speaker 3: the sense that we're going into meditation, you said to me,
Speaker 3: you know, my mind's going one hundred miles an hour,
Speaker 3: and you know, I feel like I just you know,
Speaker 3: can't control it, and it's not going to nothingness.
Speaker 4: It's never going to really go to nothingness.
Speaker 3: So don't have those expectations, because then, like me, I
Speaker 3: started meditation like this, you.
Speaker 4: Become hard on yourself.
Speaker 3: Like I actually thought there was something wrong with my
Speaker 3: mind when I first went into meditation all those years ago,
Speaker 3: because I remember watching the thoughts, but then I couldn't
Speaker 3: remember them. So I was like one minute thinking about this,
Speaker 3: I was like what was I thinking about?
Speaker 4: And then the next one and they.
Speaker 3: Were crazy thoughts where it was like so abstract. I
Speaker 3: remember thinking, what am I thinking? This is the weirdest
Speaker 3: thing ever. But the more I showed up and found
Speaker 3: a meditation that worked for me, the more I showed up,
Speaker 3: the more I kept doing it, the more I noticed
Speaker 3: that the difference in my eyes open life was so
Speaker 3: different in the sense that when my kids were young,
Speaker 3: you know, as we all do, we're unconscious, and we
Speaker 3: might be short with them or not showing up the
Speaker 3: best way we can. And because I was doing that
Speaker 3: breakfast radio job and I was exhausted, and you know
Speaker 3: you're barthing then when they're really little, and this and that,
Speaker 3: and you've got a lot on your plate, and I'd
Speaker 3: probably raise my voice a little bit more than I
Speaker 3: wanted to.
Speaker 4: I noticed that when I started meditating properly.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm not just saying this, I would say I
Speaker 3: nearly have never done that since. And it's because I
Speaker 3: don't feel a need or if I do, which I
Speaker 3: don't at all anymore, the time between something happening and
Speaker 3: your reaction is so different.
Speaker 4: It's slowed down.
Speaker 3: And this is great in any kind of business conversation
Speaker 3: or meeting. If you're a big meditator, you don't react
Speaker 3: as fast. Right, So usually someone says something beat a child,
Speaker 3: or you're in a meeting and they're saying something is
Speaker 3: upset you or it's not correct, and you'll fill your
Speaker 3: body get really heated, right, and you bark back at them. Well,
Speaker 3: barking back at anyone is never going to be a
Speaker 3: great solution, right, It's not a good way of getting
Speaker 3: a point across. When you're a meditator and do it
Speaker 3: for a period of time, you'll notice that when that
Speaker 3: person says that thing in the meeting, you're not barking
Speaker 3: back at them anymore because you wait, you have the
Speaker 3: time to think about it. Okay, they've said this, I
Speaker 3: feel like this. It's making me feel uncomfortable. I know
Speaker 3: if I bark back at them now, this response is
Speaker 3: not going to be good. So you'll either a not
Speaker 3: respond or be your respond in a way that is
Speaker 3: completely normal and nice and not raise your voice, which
Speaker 3: is a better way of getting whatever you need that
Speaker 3: information to the person rather than just attacking them. So
Speaker 3: that's one of the greatest things that can come out
Speaker 3: of meditation.
Speaker 1: I want to ask about your podcast, Yes, A Life
Speaker 1: of Greatness. You have had some amazing guests on your
Speaker 1: show over I think we've been podcasting for a similar
Speaker 1: amount of time.
Speaker 2: Six years, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So you've had people like Matthew McConaughey, Andrew Huberman, Esther Perell.
Speaker 2: Like just these amazing names, and I know that something.
Speaker 1: Think about is how do you build rapport with people
Speaker 1: as quickly as possible?
Speaker 2: And often your.
Speaker 1: Interviews are with someone that's in another country, and so
Speaker 1: you're having to do that virtually.
Speaker 3: What are the strategies that you use to build that
Speaker 3: quick report? To be honest with you, my natural way
Speaker 3: of being. But the more you do it, as you
Speaker 3: would know, the more you understand.
Speaker 4: Okay. I try to talk to them for about five minutes.
Speaker 3: Before I get a feel through the way that they
Speaker 3: answer the questions. You know, it might be like, how's
Speaker 3: everything going in America? Whereabouts in America?
Speaker 4: Are you?
Speaker 3: At the moment I get a gauge of their responses
Speaker 3: if they want to talk a little bit more, and
Speaker 3: then I might, just before we start the episode, have
Speaker 3: a bit of a chat with them. If I notice
Speaker 3: they're very quick, I'm like, okay, they just want to
Speaker 3: do the podcast chat, which is completely fine. And then
Speaker 3: I listen to what they say. So I find that
Speaker 3: if I'm in a conversation with someone, I really listen
Speaker 3: to them. I look in their eyes and I make
Speaker 3: sure I'm listening to what they're saying. Of course, yes,
Speaker 3: I tell stories that are alated to whatever they're talking about,
Speaker 3: because as it's your podcast, it's my podcast. My listeners
Speaker 3: want to hear from me as well, But I don't
Speaker 3: make the conversation eighty percent me and then twenty percent.
Speaker 3: I've invited them onto my show, and I treat them
Speaker 3: with respect. I'm using eye contact is a huge thing,
Speaker 3: and I'm really listening to what they're saying, and I
Speaker 3: think that just makes the conversation much better and it
Speaker 3: enables them to know I've come to a good spot.
Speaker 3: I'm so happy I came on this podcast. I've been
Speaker 3: told that too from some of these big guests, like
Speaker 3: you really researched.
Speaker 4: I love your questions, you know.
Speaker 2: So it works such a compliment, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I want to ask how you go deep with your
Speaker 1: guests as you do.
Speaker 2: That is your style.
Speaker 1: I think that is one of the things that you're
Speaker 1: known for if you're interviewing, and also just who you
Speaker 1: are as a person.
Speaker 2: You are someone that goes deep. You don't really do
Speaker 2: the small talk stuff.
Speaker 1: And I think you're also really good at getting guests
Speaker 1: off their talking points, which I think is probably a
Speaker 1: bit of a pet peece for any podcast, most because
Speaker 1: your guests are generally doing some sort of tour to
Speaker 1: promote some kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, what are your strategies for doing that.
Speaker 3: If I feel there's more information I really want to
Speaker 3: uncover it. I'll talk about their journey always because I'm
Speaker 3: just genuinely so interested to know, like where they came from.
Speaker 3: I might know it already if I've read a book
Speaker 3: and they've written about it, but if I don't, I
Speaker 3: start getting ideas, and then I'll in my mind going
Speaker 3: that will relate to that, and that will relate to this,
Speaker 3: which we'll move to next. And then I ask some
Speaker 3: things that are lighter in nature, and I see how
Speaker 3: they answer them. And if I feel that I'm getting
Speaker 3: them to a place where they trust me, and we've
Speaker 3: kind of set everything up nicely, we know about their
Speaker 3: childhood and their upbringing, and we've talked a bit about
Speaker 3: their work or whatever it is. I get to a
Speaker 3: place where then I think I'll ask them about something
Speaker 3: deeper and I'll see how they respond. But I genuinely
Speaker 3: do it always because I am interested in the answer.
Speaker 3: I don't do it because and I've never done this
Speaker 3: because I want to get pr headlines or anything like that.
Speaker 4: And I make sure though that I know.
Speaker 3: That they feel safe with me before I go into
Speaker 3: the deeper questions. I remember it's just come to mind
Speaker 3: when you're asking me this question. I recently interviewed Darren
Speaker 3: Hayes from Savage Guard, and his book is so beautiful
Speaker 3: everyone should buy it. But it's deep and his story
Speaker 3: is hard and sad and beautiful. But he went through
Speaker 3: Helen backright, had a terrible upbringing and while his father
Speaker 3: was terrible, his sister was amazing. And so I said
Speaker 3: to him in the book, I mentioned his sister and
Speaker 3: I asked about their relationship, and then he just, you know,
Speaker 3: he really welled up with tears and said, you know,
Speaker 3: she had to grow up so fast because my father
Speaker 3: was abusive to my mum, and she became from a
Speaker 3: young age my mum's best friend because my mum was
Speaker 3: isolated from her friends because my dad was abusing her,
Speaker 3: you know. And then I am touched by his comment.
Speaker 3: And then when that happens, because again you're listening, it's
Speaker 3: like you form this kind of bond. It's an unspoken energy.
Speaker 3: And I know this sounds so strange, but you would
Speaker 3: understand because you've interviewed people where they share something that's
Speaker 3: really raw and honest. And again this kind of goes
Speaker 3: into that empathy piece you think about them or maybe
Speaker 3: yourself in that situation, and that touches something in you,
Speaker 3: and then you have that place to be able to
Speaker 3: either ask some more questions about that or talk about
Speaker 3: something else that's quite deep, because you've really formed that bond.
Speaker 3: I want to finish by asking you a question that's
Speaker 3: probably a version of a question you've been asking many
Speaker 3: times and I get asked it as well.
Speaker 2: In terms of you know, who's your favorite guest, what's
Speaker 2: your favorite tip?
Speaker 1: But I guess specifically, I want to know what is
Speaker 1: a piece of advice or something that you've heard with
Speaker 1: the many interviews that you've done that has really had
Speaker 1: one of the most profound impacts on you.
Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest pieces of advice I
Speaker 3: got given, and it's a chapter in the book, is
Speaker 3: being your authentic self, going through the world and being you.
Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting.
Speaker 3: It was actually in the yesterday the kids are dressing
Speaker 3: up for something at school, and I think it's like,
Speaker 3: who do you want to be when you're older kind
Speaker 3: of thing. A lot of my daughter's friends are going
Speaker 3: as like ballerinas and gymnasts, and Poppy loves that. But
Speaker 3: my daughter, but she doesn't want to be that, even
Speaker 3: though all their friends are that. And then there's another
Speaker 3: group that are doing something else, and she says, you know, mum,
Speaker 3: there's only ten.
Speaker 4: I don't really want to do that like I want to.
Speaker 4: She loves basketball.
Speaker 3: She's like, I want to be like a sports person.
Speaker 3: And I thought, you know, so many people at that
Speaker 3: age were just try and do what their friends did
Speaker 3: because it's easier, and they all want to be the same.
Speaker 3: But the fact that she's saying that's not when I
Speaker 3: want to do it. I don't want to grow up
Speaker 3: and being a gymnast or a ballerina. I want to
Speaker 3: be an athlete. I was like, wow, it's making it
Speaker 3: hard a few in the sense that you have to
Speaker 3: find a group now because that group only wants the
Speaker 3: ballerinas and gymnasts. But you're showing up as your authentic self.
Speaker 3: And I think there are so many times in life
Speaker 3: where we're trying to fit into what we think other
Speaker 3: people want from us, or trying to be the other person,
Speaker 3: trying to be what someone else thinks is.
Speaker 4: Acceptable or right.
Speaker 3: It might be our parents, it might be in a relationship,
Speaker 3: whatever it is, and we lose ourselves and garble Matte
Speaker 3: talks a lot about this that you know, if you're
Speaker 3: a chameleon in so many situations, you don't end up
Speaker 3: knowing who you are, and you do that long enough,
Speaker 3: you end.
Speaker 4: Up creating disease. Disease right because you.
Speaker 3: Become insecure, you think that no one really likes you
Speaker 3: for you. You don't even know who you are. So
Speaker 3: the best advice that I've been given is to show
Speaker 3: up as your authentic self. And I think what's got
Speaker 3: me the beautiful friends I have, what's allowed me in
Speaker 3: the past to be a great producer is I've always
Speaker 3: shown up as Sarah.
Speaker 1: I love that, and you have most definitely been the
Speaker 1: Sarah that I.
Speaker 4: Catch up for coffee over the mind today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. I loved your book.
Speaker 1: Like as I said to you when you walked in,
Speaker 1: it's such a gift when you know someone and then
Speaker 1: you're able to read their book that they've put so
Speaker 1: much of themselves into and so many stories I didn't
Speaker 1: know about you. I loved it so much. Living a
Speaker 1: life of greatness, It's just been such a joy.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sarah oh Aman for You're amazing. You're a
Speaker 3: beautiful friend. And thank you so much for having me
Speaker 3: on the podcast. I'm truly very grateful.
Speaker 1: I hope you loved this chat with Sarah as much
Speaker 1: as I did, and I can tell you that after
Speaker 1: this chat, I've put a ban on myself engaging in
Speaker 1: any gossip or bitchiness, which I think is such a
Speaker 1: game changer.
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about Sarah.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend checking out her book Living a Life
Speaker 1: of Greatness and listening to her podcast A Life of Greatness.
Speaker 2: The links to both are in the show notes. If
Speaker 2: you like.
Speaker 1: Today's show, make sure you get follow on your podcast
Speaker 1: app to be alerted when new episodes drop.
Speaker 2: How I Work was recorded
Speaker 1: On the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of
Speaker 1: the Cool And Nation.