1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Outspoken. You're dose of the hottest 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: influencer and pop culture news twice a week. I'm Kate 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Torba and I'm joined by my sisters and journalists Amy 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: and Sophie. On today's show, Tammy Hembro's casting call, controversy 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Fox Sports SAX reporter over sexist and homophobic message and 6 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: why are we so judgmental about weddings? But First, former 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: bachelorette and journalist Georgia Love and her partner Lee Elliott 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: are facing backlash after promoting an all expenses paid trip 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: to Saudia Arabia, a country well known for its human 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: rights atrocities. Sophie, what happened? Well, it has been a 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: turbulent six months for Georgia Love. In September of last year, 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: she was taken off the air by seven News following 13 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: a casual racism scandal, which also saw her losing a 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: string of lucrative brand deals. Now, at the end of February, 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: Georgia announced she was leaving seven News for a job 16 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: in pr and soon after that announcement, she started teasing 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: that she and Lee were off on an overseas adventure. 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: Now that international borders were open, She urged her followers 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: to guess where they were off to, and it seems 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: that none of her followers guest correctly. So Georgia shared 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: a photo of her and husband Lee arriving at King 22 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Khalid International Airport with the caption, well, I can categorically say, 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: not one person guest We're in Saudia, Arabia after only 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: opening to tourists in twenty nineteen. We can't state how 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: excited we are to be among the first Aussies to 26 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: tour Saudi to us. It's important to see, experience and 27 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: learn about all cultures around US, and to see how 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: much and how fast our world is changing. We can't 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,479 Speaker 1: wait to bring you along on this incredible experience with us. 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: So as part of the post, Georgia included the hashtag 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: visit Saudi and also tag the Instagram page by the 32 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: same name. Now Georgia and Lee were part of a 33 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: group of ten influencers from around the globe flown over 34 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: to promote the Middle Eastern country. Among them was a 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: Lithuanian travel blogger called sky Nate, whose Instagram posts include 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Georgia and Lee in background. Now, Georgia and Lee have 37 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: both faced backlash following their Instagram posts, and this is 38 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: because Saudi Arabia's government has copped heavy criticism for its 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: human rights abuses, including its treatment of women and its 40 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: LGBTQI plus community, as well as for repressing political opposition. 41 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: Both followers and critics were quick to show their outrage 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 1: about the trip. Entertainment journalist Peter Ford tweeted a link 43 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: to a news article revealing Saudi Arabia recently executed eighty 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: one convicts in a single day. Peter wrote, this is 45 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: the country Georgia love accepted a free trip to visit 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: Of the eighty one, you can be sure there is 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: a disproportionate number of women, gays, and possibly journalists. Did 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: you really need a freebee trip that badly, Georgia. One 49 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 1: follower also wrote, they executed eighty two people a few 50 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: days ago, not to mention the lack of women's rights 51 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: and the LGBTQI plus community. Being a journalist, it might 52 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: have been a good idea to research a country before 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: promoting it. Their human rights are appalling, disappointing. It seems 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: a free holiday is more important than morals. Another said, 55 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: why not use your influence slush platform to promote somewhere 56 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: that doesn't have an atrocious record of human rights violations. Now. 57 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: In the comments section, Georgia denied it was a paid partnership. 58 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: She said, we do not in any way endorse behaviors 59 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: of the past or any human rights violations that have 60 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 1: occurred in this country. We are also not being paid 61 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: to be here. We are here for ourselves and to 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: experience and see a different country and culture, as that 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: is for us what travel is about. We want to 64 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: see and experience as much of the world as we can. 65 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: This includes all cultures and religions, whether we follow them, 66 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: agree with them or not. Lee also weighed in and 67 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: responded to the criticism on his posts. 68 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: He said, I truly hear. 69 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: And understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: We thought long and hard about coming, and we decided 71 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: to come as the world is changing for the better 72 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: and Saudi along with it. We strongly believe by Saudi 73 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: opening up to the rest of the world and by 74 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: tourists being here, it has to be more accountable and 75 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: hope this is a change for the better. Trust me, 76 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: we looked into it before coming and believe many things 77 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: have changed for the better. In more recent times and 78 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: hope they continued to do so now. After the criticism, 79 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: Lee also praised the country, saying the trip was organized 80 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: and run solely by women who were here on the ground. 81 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: Leading the tour now news dot com weighed in and 82 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 1: reported that despite Lee saying that the tours were led 83 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 1: heavily by females, the other influences on the trip seemed 84 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: to be posting about male tour guide, so it didn't 85 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: really add up. Well, it gets even murkier because, despite 86 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: claiming that the trip was not a paid partnership, Georgia 87 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: tagged Instagram page visit Saudi in all of her posts 88 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: and used the hashtag visit Saudi, which is of course 89 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: a telltale sign of a paid partnership. 90 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: Or a gifted partnership. 91 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's obviously goods exchanging hands at some point here. 92 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: And The Herald's son reported that the couple weren't paid 93 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: directly for the trip, but Saudi Arabian Tourism approached the 94 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: couple and was fitting the bill for the airfares, accommodation 95 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: and expenses, and so you when you were reading out 96 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: George's response, they were quite clever with their words. We 97 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 1: were not paid to go on the trip. It's like, 98 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: but you've got a free trip. Well, currently, Georgia and 99 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: Lee they are actually still on the trip. I believe 100 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: it may be their last day there today, and they 101 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: continue to be in the behind the scenes vision in 102 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: the other influencers Instagram posts. However, on Friday, Georgia and 103 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: Lee removed all of their posts about the trip on 104 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: their Instagram pages. And I'm really interested because, considering this 105 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: trip is pretty much a contra deal. I wonder how 106 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:35,119 Speaker 1: the organizers feel that their posts have been removed because presumably, well, 107 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: really realistically, they received the trip in exchange for exposure, 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: but now that exposure has been removed. Yeah, but the 109 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 1: exposure has been so negative, so I'm sure that the 110 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: Saudi tourism organizers would want them to remove all of 111 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 1: the images because there are so many bad comments under 112 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: each of the posts. Yeah, but that being said, there 113 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: would be some people who would have seen the Instagram 114 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: stories and thought, wow, this is a part of the 115 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: world I've never thought of about visiting. 116 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: So the backlash you think has been good for tourism. 117 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: Now, I'm not saying it's great, but out of there 118 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: would have been a percentage of her followers who probably 119 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: would have thought, hey, that's a new holiday destination. Yeah, 120 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: but there might have been a lot of people that 121 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: didn't know how bad Saudi Arabia's human rights violations are. 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: So if I do understand the decision to remove the post, 123 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: it's beneficial to both parties. I think in this instance now, 124 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: in regards to this backlash, I feel like Georgia Love 125 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: is being held to a higher standard because she is 126 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: a journalist. She is expected to know what's going on 127 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: in the world, and now that she's working in PR, 128 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: I think people would also assume that she would think 129 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: really strategically about what brands or partnerships she's choosing to 130 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 1: align herself with. I think that's why there has been 131 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: such strong reaction to this. And despite the fact that 132 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: Lee said that they both had thought long and hard 133 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: about the trip, I believe they really made the wrong decision. 134 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: I think it's a cumbination of bad press for Georgia 135 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: Love as well. She was very well loved in Australia 136 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: after being on The Bachelorette, and I just think it's 137 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: this downward negative spiral of bad bad press after bad press. Yeah, 138 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: I think that by accepting an all expenses paid trip 139 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia, a country that is so well known 140 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: for beheading women and members of the LGBTQI community as well, 141 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: in particular journalist. It just was such a bad move, 142 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: and I don't think that there would have been so 143 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: much outrage if they just went or chose to go 144 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia themselves. The fact that they're receiving some 145 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: sort of kickback or payment in the form of a 146 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: trip to promote the country is what people really seem 147 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: to have a problem with. So if I agree with 148 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: your point about people expecting more from Georgia because she 149 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: has been a journalist, and I think it is because 150 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: her recommendations offer more weight, She has more credibility, so 151 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: people are sad to see her putting her name behind 152 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: a country which may not be a safe place for 153 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: people to travel to. Well, that's the thing. Particularly when 154 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: you're in a situation where you're being provided protection by 155 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: the country's tourism department and they want to ensure that 156 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: you have the most fantastic time in their country. It 157 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: is a little bit differ for maybe some a young 158 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: woman who's choosing to go over there because she's seen 159 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: it on Georgia Love's Instagram account, but she doesn't have 160 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: the sort of safety measures in place that someone who 161 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: is being brought over by the tourism company does have. 162 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: Well playing devil's advocate here, does something visiting a country 163 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: mean that you agree with how that country is running 164 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: and what's happened in the past, Because for many traveling 165 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: it's all about experiencing different cultures and lifestyles. So it 166 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that when you visit a country that 167 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: you advocate for everything that that country represents while you're 168 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: visiting it. Will you make a really good point, Kate, 169 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: because think about Bali. I mean, we had members of 170 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: the Bali Nine, fellow Australians who were executed for drug 171 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: offenses over there, and it hasn't stopped people from traveling. 172 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: I really do think that the backlash has a lot 173 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 1: to do with this changing perception of Georgia Love following 174 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: that casual racism scandal. And I do think that she 175 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: is being put under a very big microscope at the 176 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: moment and every single move she's making is being analyzed. 177 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 2: We have had and it's not a phrase I would 178 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 2: often use from. 179 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: How Tammy Henbury has sparked debate about payment in the 180 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: modeling industry after posting a casting call on her Instagram story. 181 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: Sophie, what happened? 182 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well as you say, Amy Tammy put out a 183 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: casting call on her Instagram for women to model her 184 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: activewear brand, Saski Now. 185 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: The advert asked applicants to. 186 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: Email a headshot, their size, and a link to their 187 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: social media accounts to their official casting email, which was 188 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 1: supplied in the post. The post then went on to 189 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: say that the four Saski girls chosen will receive an 190 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: unreleased active were set plus a two hundred dollars voucher. 191 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: It then wished the entrance good luck. 192 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 2: Now. 193 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: This post has sparked debate about whether it is fair 194 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: to compensate models for their time with free products or vouchers, 195 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: or whether we should expect those entering the industry to 196 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: work for exposure and to build connections. 197 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 2: What do you guys think? 198 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: I think it's important to point out that modeling is 199 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: a very real job. We found that out the hard 200 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: way by trying to take photos for our album cover work, 201 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: and I have a huge amount of respect for models. 202 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: It is a tough gig and most models do work 203 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: with agencies, and those agencies then take a percentage of 204 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: their fee, so it's a big business and I think 205 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: it's really disrespectful to just offer someone a two hundred 206 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: dollar voucher and a couple of active wear sets. Yeah, 207 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: and models have spent many years mastering their craft, and 208 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: I feel like when brands decide to do callouts like these, 209 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: real models lose these opportunities because unfortunately, a two hundred 210 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: dollar clothing voucher isn't going to pay their tax, rent, petrol, 211 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: or household bills. And having the right model to represent 212 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: you in twenty twenty two. 213 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 2: Is huge these days. 214 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: I feel like as a society, we expect so much 215 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: more and for brand selection of a model to represent 216 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: what that brand believes in all how they want to 217 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: be seen. Have you noticed, though, that it seems like 218 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: influencers are putting out these brand calls now that we 219 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: dictate that we want to see different sorts of models, 220 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: we want to see different sizes, as different shapes, different ethnicities, 221 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, well, I have to then put 222 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: a call out for those time type of people because 223 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: those people aren't going to be represented by modeling agencies 224 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: and I can just pay them the pittance because they're 225 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: not real models. 226 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: Like that's how I feel. 227 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: It's like very disrespectful, and it's also they think, oh, 228 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm covering my ass by getting a mix of people in, 229 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: but actually it's very offensive because they're saying, oh, well, 230 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: you're not really worth the real fee of a typical model. 231 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: Well that's the thing in some states, like in Adelaide, 232 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: for example, we have worked with brands and we have 233 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: gone to modeling agencies and sometimes it is difficult to 234 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: find the exact look that you're after. So I understand 235 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: that they may have wanted to do a broader call 236 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: out online to try and discover new talent, but I 237 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: think that the offer of clothing vouchers is a bit 238 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: unfair considering how profitable SASKI is. I mean, I could 239 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: definitely understand more startup businesses or smaller brands offering exposure 240 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: and vouchers as an incentive, but I don't understand why 241 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: they wouldn't fairly compensate the models when they clearly have 242 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: the money to do so, because these models are adding 243 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: a lot to their brand. These brand campaigns are huge. 244 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 1: They make huge bank of selling out activewear brands, and 245 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: I don't understand why as a business move, you wouldn't 246 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: just properly compensate people for their time. 247 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: The thing is, a lot. 248 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: Of people would pay money to be in a Saski 249 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: campaign for the experience, to put that on their resume 250 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: or in their portfolio, to say that they've worked for 251 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: a big brand. I do like the fact that they 252 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: are trying to open it up to real people, but 253 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: I do agree with your point k that is a 254 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: bit offensive to say, oh, we do want real people 255 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: in it, but we're not actually going to pay you 256 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: any money. 257 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 2: We're going to give you a voucher. I agree with you, Amy. 258 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: There is the other argument that this sort of exposure 259 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: for an up and coming model could be huge if 260 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: they get tagged in the photo, because Saski does have 261 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: over half a million followers, and it also could be 262 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: a good networking move for the model, who could befriend 263 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: one of the country's biggest influences. 264 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: However, at the end of the day, whether the. 265 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: Person is a real model or a real person, they're 266 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: still working and using their time basically for free for 267 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: the promise of clothes. And this is while the brand 268 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: earns so much money from the campaigns and photos that 269 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: they feature in. Well, if we do delve into this 270 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: topic further, modeling is a female dominated industry, and I 271 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: feel like we would never expect men in a male 272 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: dominated profession to work for vouchers. Yeah, that's the thing. 273 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: It just seems to worsen the gender pay gap. If 274 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: we're expecting female dominated areas to just work for free 275 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: clothes or gifted things. It just doesn't seem fair. It 276 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: is kind of interesting as well if you do compare 277 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: it to how fellow influencer an entrepreneur Britney Saunders handles 278 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: her marketing because when BRIT's brand Fate advertised for models, 279 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: they didn't specify size. Their only requests was that the 280 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: models must be confident in front of a camera, and 281 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: they also paid them for their work. 282 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: Can I just say something, Yes, you can never have 283 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: enough hats, gloves and shoes. 284 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: Fox reporter Tom Morris has been sacked after audio surfaced 285 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: online of him making sexist and homophobic comments about a 286 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: female colleague in a WhatsApp group, Amy, can you tell 287 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: us how all unfolded? 288 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? 289 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: So? Journalist Tom Morris was in the spotlight for a 290 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: very different reason. On Wednesday last week, during a postgame 291 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: press conference, he was unfairly berated by Western Bulldogs coach 292 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: Luke Beveridge, who labeled him a gutter journalist. Now we 293 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: won't go into all the boring details, but basically, Morris 294 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: reported correct information about the club and was unfairly attacked 295 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: by the coach. The Bulldogs coach was slammed for his 296 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: outburst and later released an official apology to Morris. Yeah, 297 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: the general consensus was that Luke Beveridge had been particularly 298 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: harsh towards Tom Morris, particularly when you think about sports journalism, 299 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of the time all of the sports 300 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: journals are in the club's pockets. They won't report on 301 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: anything because they don't want to get the club offsite. 302 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: So for a journal to actually be reporting on facts 303 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: that are happening at the clubs is really important and 304 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: it does hold clubs to account. So there was a 305 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: lot of positive publicity around Morris. So the next day 306 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: a video recording surfaced online and quickly went viral. The 307 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: video was a screen recording of a WhatsApp group chat 308 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: between Morris and some friends. So some of his friends 309 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: had taken a photo off their TV screens of a 310 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: Fox sports presenter called Megan Barnard and asked Morris, I quote, 311 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: who's this little baddie. He responded with a voice message 312 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: saying what a top chick Barnard is and that she's 313 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: super hot and great to talk to, but is a lesbian. 314 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: He then made a slur saying that Barnard has her 315 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: liquor license and she's good at it. Now, you guys 316 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: have heard this audio, it hasn't actually been shared on 317 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: news websites. I believe this is due to legalities. What 318 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: was your first thoughts when hearing this audio. Oh, he 319 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: just came across as a tosser. 320 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I have to put it out. 321 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: He just came across as a jerk and as someone 322 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: who has worked in newsroom. He just seemed like that 323 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,479 Speaker 1: typical lad in the years room that we've all come across. 324 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: And I mean, sorry, I might say a naive, but I. 325 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: Didn't really know what a liquor license. 326 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: Man. I've never actually heard it used in this way. 327 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: And it was really interesting to see the way this 328 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: story progressed and how he so quickly became the badding. Yes. Well, 329 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: Fox Sport acted swiftly and they suspended Morris whilst they 330 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: investigated what they described as an inappropriate audio recording, and 331 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: there have been reports that a second recording exists which 332 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: is unrelated to Barnard, which allegedly contains racist comments. 333 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 2: Now it was a very. 334 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: Quick investigation by Fox Sport because they announced the same 335 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: day that they had sacked Morris, citing a zero tolerance policy. Now, 336 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: Fox Sports executive director Steve Crawley released a statement saying, 337 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: our culture at Fox Sport is based on a respectful, 338 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: inclusive environment and a fair go for all. While Tom's 339 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: journalism has made a valuable contribution to Fox Sport over 340 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: the past seven years, the message we became aware of 341 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: yesterday crossed the line. It was unacceptable. We have the 342 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: best in the business working at Fox Sports. We love 343 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: what we do. We have a reputation as a great 344 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: place to work. The bottom line is we are committed 345 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: to a work environment where everyone can come to work 346 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: in the knowledge they are safe, respected and valued. We 347 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: have zero tolerance for anything less than that. What do 348 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: you guys make of Fox sports response? Well, firstly, I 349 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: do want to point out for those who haven't seen 350 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: the exchange between the Western Bulldogs coach and Tom, but 351 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: it was super awkward because Tom kept saying, oh, Fox 352 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: Sports backs me. I'm backed by them, So for them 353 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: to swiftly turn around and get rid of him really 354 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: says a lot. And I think it is so great 355 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: that Fox acted so swiftly because from a pr perspective, 356 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: they did the right thing in shutting this down immediately 357 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: and saying they have zero tolerance for this sort of behavior, 358 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: particularly considering he has worked there for seven years. It 359 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: is quite a big call for them to make. Yeah, 360 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: and I have seen a lot of men online commenting 361 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: on articles about this incident, and they've either left revolting 362 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: comments about what a waste it is that Barnard is gay, 363 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: or they've said, oh, I don't get what the big 364 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: deal is, and just to put it to them, the 365 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 1: big deal is it is completely inappropriate to talk about 366 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: a colleague's second uality, full stop. But also it's beyond 367 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: disgusting to talk about it in such a derogatory way, 368 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: and it's something that needs to stop. This boys club 369 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: culture starts from these vile group chats, which are filled 370 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: with apparent jokes and slurs, and if we want to 371 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: make workplaces a safe space for everyone, this sort of 372 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,479 Speaker 1: crap needs to be stamped out, and I'm so happy 373 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: to see that Fox Sports has stamped it out. And 374 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: it's refreshing to see an organization which, let's be honest, 375 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: would have a lot of male executives. 376 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,640 Speaker 2: Say no, this isn't okay. 377 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know, I feel like it hits 378 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: home a little bit for us because obviously, Amy, you 379 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: cannot talk about it. But almost six years ago now 380 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: we had comments throat well, you had comments throwing it 381 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: you're regarding your sexuality with someone questioning and saying, oh, well, 382 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: one in three women is a lesbian, Amy, so you 383 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: must be a lesbian. And the man in question was 384 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: not punished in any way. 385 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: If anything, he was. 386 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: Rewarded and those who would deem the issue I et 387 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: us were gotten rid of. 388 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 389 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: So it is so fantastic to see that this sort 390 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: of commentary, even though it didn't actually happen in the workplace, 391 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: but this sort of commentary around a colleague is being 392 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: taken so seriously. And I do really feel for Barnard 393 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: because it would be incredibly awkward to be brought into 394 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: this narrative and the stories that are going on, because 395 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's taking away. 396 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 2: From the great work that she's doing. 397 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there has been a lot of high profile 398 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: support force Fox Sports decision. So AFL chief executive Gil 399 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: McLaughlin labeled the comments clearly unacceptable. Gary Lyon also condemned 400 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: the comments, and Fox Footy and ABC commentator Kelly Underwood, 401 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: who was the first female footy commentator, made a really 402 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: good point. She said that the owners is now on 403 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: men to stand up to this type of behavior and 404 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: lead the charge for change. She said, we as women 405 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: and as leaders in the industry, we can scream from 406 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: the rooftops and get accused of sticking up for your 407 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: mates or winging. 408 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: Where are the men? 409 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: That's what's going to change the culture here. And I 410 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: completely agree with Kelly, and to be honest, having previously worked, 411 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: as Sophie said, in the media, I've seen this time 412 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: and time again where people or organizations will publicly condemn 413 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: something but then do it themselves. And I think that 414 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: men need to start calling each other out when these 415 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: types of group chats go on and say listen, that's 416 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: not actually cool to say that. And we also need 417 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: to stamp out this rhetoric that boys will be boys 418 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: and these are the types of conversations that are normal. 419 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 2: For them to have. 420 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: I also think it's really fascinating that this conversation took 421 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: part in a friend WhatsApp group. Now I'm led to 422 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: believe that the friends exposed this audio, which really says 423 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: a lot about how they feel about Tom. Well, it's 424 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: either one of the friends who has leaked it, or 425 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: it is a friend who has sent it on to 426 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: another friend and they have leaked. So why would you 427 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: ever send that audio onto another friend that unless you're 428 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: trying to stitch your friend up or say what a jerk? 429 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: Though exactly so, Kate, how has Megan Barnard responded, because 430 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: I really felt for her being at the center of 431 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: this media story. Well, she has handled herself incredibly well. 432 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: She's currently in New Zealand anchoring the ICC Women's World Cup, 433 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: and she put out a statement on Instagram on Sunday 434 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: saying she'd been overwhelmed by the public support, but said 435 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: coming out should never be taken out of someone's hands. 436 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: Meghan wrote to everyone who has reached out, thank you. Fortunately, 437 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm at a place in my life where I am 438 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: comfortable with who I am and I can handle something 439 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: deeply personal becoming public, But had this happened as recently 440 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: as a few years ago, it would not have been 441 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: the case. Coming out is a process and should never 442 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,159 Speaker 1: be taken out of someone's hands, nor should anyone be 443 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: spoken about in such a degrading manner. I hope my 444 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: experience can be a catalyst for change in not just 445 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: the sports industry, but in every industry. 446 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 2: Well. 447 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: Megan made a great point because this leaked recording has 448 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: literally outed her and has plasted her sexuality all over 449 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: the newspapers. So Megan hadn't discussed her sexuality publicly, and why. 450 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 2: Should she have to. 451 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: She's a reporter and her sexuality has nothing to do 452 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: with her job. It is a really interesting one because 453 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: I don't know who to point the blame out for 454 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: outing Megan, because obviously this video went viral online and 455 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: it was within the public interest for the media. 456 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,439 Speaker 2: To report on it. 457 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: But is it actually Morris's fault for making the disgusting 458 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: claims or is there any onus on the friends to 459 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: have not publicly shared this. Are they at fault whoever 460 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: shared this video? Are they just as much to blame 461 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: as Morris? Or are they actually the good guys for 462 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: exposing this journalist's behavior. 463 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 2: Well, I think Megan is the clear victim amongst this. 464 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: All the audio recording had nothing to do with him 465 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: facing off against the Western Bulldogs. Yes, it has raised 466 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: his profile and it has put him in the spotlight. However, 467 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: I think that this could have been handled internally. That 468 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: being said, obviously someone chose to put it out there 469 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: on social media. I think the media itself ethically, they 470 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have included Meghan's name. Yes, of course if 471 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: they said a colleague, it does whittle it down to 472 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 1: some people, but not everyone knows who works behind the 473 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: scenes of Fox. But the thing is people are going 474 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: to go and seek out this recording and they're going 475 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: to find out who it was. Could the friends not 476 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: have bleeped out her name? Yeah, completely Amy. I think 477 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: that Megan's identity should have been withheld from this whole conversation, 478 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: and it is incredibly hard and. 479 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 2: Unfair on her. 480 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: I do really wonder how the Western Borders coach reacted 481 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: to this, because I don't know. 482 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 2: It just seems to all be too neat. 483 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: How this journo who he came up against has been 484 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: completely destroyed in the media. Very interesting timing. If he 485 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: isn't it it is. I just personally hope that the 486 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: way Fox Sports has reacted to this by getting rid 487 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: of Morris makes men think twice about discussing women in 488 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: such a disgusting way, and it has given a real 489 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: insight into conversations men have in these boys group chats, 490 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: and I suppose it just makes you realize that really 491 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: anything that you put out there through whether it's on 492 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: social media or whether it's in a group chat, can 493 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: get out there, so people need to think wisely about 494 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: what they post. It really blows my mind that people 495 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: record voice, memos or vision of themselves like that in 496 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: this day and age. By sharing this with more Game Mum, 497 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,919 Speaker 1: I pecifically ask for more Orgasma and Rowano Steine. The 498 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: Internet went into a frenzy on Friday night when an 499 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: influencer shared a photo of her wearing a white dress 500 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: to her friend's wedding. The judgment that followed was swift 501 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: and harsh, so much so that the bride was forced 502 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: to defend her friend's decision on the night of her wedding. 503 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: Out of respect for the bride, we are not naming 504 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: the influencer as we don't want to add any more 505 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: distress or distraction from her special day. However, we did 506 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: want to discuss the immense judgment around weddings and just 507 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: how ridiculous some of the traditions are. I've now been 508 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: engaged for ten months and am deep in the wedding 509 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,640 Speaker 1: planning process. Well, so for Amy, you both have been 510 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 1: engaged for three months, and I think the judgment actually 511 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: starts the day you get engaged and people ask you 512 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: about the way your partner proposed and they judged the ring. 513 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: Did you guys feel that judgment from the start? I 514 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: feel like it was different for you and I because 515 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: I don't feel like the judgment w so much around 516 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: how they proposed, but around the fact that they did 517 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: it on the same day and whether we were upset 518 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: about that, And then there was judgment that the rings 519 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: were the same. Well, I personally feel a little bit 520 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,719 Speaker 1: of judgment around the fact that I haven't locked in 521 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: a date. Well, I mean, talking about all of this judgment, 522 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: I feel like we are all guilty of judgment as well. 523 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there's been so many times on this podcast 524 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680 Speaker 1: that we've discussed influencers, rings or the way they were proposed. 525 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: I feel like it's kind of human nature to comment 526 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: on weddings, because always when I go to a wedding, 527 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: I can't help but view things as, oh, would I 528 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: want to have this? Or do I not like that? 529 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: Like you kind of use it as a judgment on 530 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: things that you want to do for your wedding. It's 531 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: funny you say that so, because I had dinner with 532 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: some friends a couple months ago and we were talking 533 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: about wedding planning, and they were asking us what Dale 534 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: and I wanted to do, and then they started talking 535 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: about friends' weddings they'd been to, which weren't so impressive, 536 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: and it made me really nervous to actually say what 537 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to have on the day because I felt 538 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: like there might be some judgment around it. The thing is, 539 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: in most aspects of life, people seem to unders stand 540 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: the rule that you need to keep your thoughts to 541 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: yourself about people's personal decisions that don't affect you. However, 542 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: when it comes to weddings, it's a whole different story. 543 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: And as you were saying, so, I am no saint 544 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: when it comes to judging weddings. I often feel like 545 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: I'm on that old TV show for weddings where you 546 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 1: judge everything at the wedding, from the food to the dress, 547 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: to the first dance to the song choices. And this 548 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 1: was even before I started planning my own wedding, But 549 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: now that I'm in the process of actually planning it, 550 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: I have felt so overwhelmed with a sense of what 551 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: will people think? And I actually went and got my 552 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: wedding dress this week, and while the process was heaps 553 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: of fun, I did find it stressful thinking like, what 554 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: are people going to think about the dress I chose, 555 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: rather than actually focusing on what I liked. When it 556 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: comes to wedding dresses, I think they're the biggest aspect 557 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: of what is judged on the day because the dress 558 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,479 Speaker 1: can't be too expensive or too cheap, and you have 559 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: to look the best you have ever looked in your 560 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: whole life. And it's like every single guest is they're 561 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: judging you, and you've got to understand you can't please everyone. 562 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: It's such a personal decision that ultimately you're not going 563 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: to keep everyone happy. 564 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 2: Do you know what? 565 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: I've just thought of another judgment that women now face, 566 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: and this is a really modern one. It's if you 567 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: choose to take your husband's name, because I feel like 568 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: previously it was a done thing that every woman just 569 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: took the husband's name, and now we are seeing more 570 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: and more women choose to keep their name or hyphenate it. 571 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: And for me, I'm in a really interesting situation where 572 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: my partner has a double barreled last name, so there 573 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: is no way I can double barrel it or triple 574 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: barrel trible barrel. Thank you so well, you could, but 575 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: it would be extremely long. Yeah, all the last names 576 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: are really long and very hard. I'm really confused what 577 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: to do because I could remove one of his names, 578 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: but then he has strong ties to both names, and it's. 579 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: A really difficult situation. 580 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: And I also feel as a feminist, I feel like 581 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: whatever decision I make, people are going to judge me 582 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: as well. Well, you could simply keep your own last time, 583 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: I could exactly exactly, but that's the thing. I think 584 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: that people now expect you to do that, and then 585 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: if you decide against that and go down the traditional route, 586 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: people have judgments about that as well. So it's really 587 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: hard to know what to do. I think you've really 588 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: touched on amy because I think the other main reason 589 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: why there is so much judgment around weddings comes down 590 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 1: to families, because traditionally weddings were about bringing two families 591 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: together and it was all about the parents of the 592 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: bride passing this ownership of their daughter over to the groom. However, 593 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: these days parents still do play a significant role in 594 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: the wedding. Often they contribute significantly to the wedding budget, 595 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: so it really makes sense that the people who are 596 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: chipping in the money would have an opinion on how 597 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: their money is spent. These days, though weddings are becoming 598 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: more about the two people rather than the families, however, 599 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: the opinions of the people in the audience are still 600 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: very important and an interview in Bustle, owner and creative 601 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: director of Colour Pop Events Leah Winberg said, this weird 602 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: sense of entitlement comes over people when it comes to weddings. 603 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: Things people would never do or say under any other 604 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: circumstances suddenly become par for the course in the context 605 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,479 Speaker 1: of a wedding. If you hosted a dinner party at 606 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: your home, would anyone dare tell you to your face 607 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,560 Speaker 1: they thought the food was subpar? Of course not. But 608 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to a wedding, people are going to 609 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: let the criticism fly freely. Well, in light of the 610 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: influencer getting slammed for breaking wedding etiquette, I thought it 611 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: would be quite fun to actually put her said crime 612 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: into perspective by discussing the real meaning behind wedding traditions. So, 613 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: of course, her crime was wearing a white dress to 614 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: a wedding, and I think everyone knows the tradition behind 615 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: the dress. White represents purity and virginity, and if you 616 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: wear a white dress to a wedding, it's thought to 617 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: detract from the bride and be quite rude. I've got 618 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: to put my hand up. I have worn a white 619 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: dress to my cousin's wedding. It was not as elaborate 620 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: as the influencer in question. So I think it's sort 621 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: of about whether or not the person is seen to 622 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: be stealing the spotlight, I think these days, and we 623 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: saw it with the whole Kendle Jenna controversy when she 624 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: wore that black, revealing, very eye catching dress. I think 625 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, if the bride in 626 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: question is happy with what the guests wore, that's. 627 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 2: All that should matter. 628 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: I can totally see why people were a little bit 629 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: surprised when they saw this influencer in the gown because 630 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: it was quite an elaborate gown. But in saying that, 631 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: it appears that the theme of the wedding was glamour, 632 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: so it really did go with the theme. Yeah. I 633 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: just think it's the bride's prerogative. And if she has 634 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: come out and said she was very happy with what 635 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: her guest was wearing, then let's just stop the conversation there. 636 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: In terms of wedding dresses, did you guys know that 637 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: before the mid eighteen hundreds, brides actually wore red dresses 638 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: And it was actually Queen Victoria who started the trend 639 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: of white dresses because she chose to wear a white 640 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: lacy dress when she married Prince Albert, and at the 641 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: time white actually represented wealth as opposed to purity. So 642 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: are you saying that if Queen Victoria hadn't changed it, 643 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: we would be discussing influencers who dared to wear red 644 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: at their friend's wedding. Yes, exactly right. Red is so 645 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: weird to me. I think it must be something to 646 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: do with love. I suppose red represents hearts and Valentine's Day, 647 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: but it just blows my mind. Can you think of 648 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: the color palettes we would have had if people wore 649 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: red to their wedding. I know, well, I was kind 650 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: of thinking more it might be around like virginity and 651 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: purity seems to be a big topic. I was thinking, 652 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 1: does it represent the hymen? Because? Oh, because did you 653 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: guys know the cutting of the cake is meant to 654 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: represent the breaking of the hymen? 655 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 2: That is absolutely vile. 656 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: I actually when I was at a wedding recently where 657 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: they were cutting the cake, and I did say to 658 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: the person sitting next to me, do you know what 659 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: that's symbolic for? 660 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 2: And they had no idea. 661 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: So I don't think that this is actually as well 662 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: known as we think it is. But it just makes 663 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: me not want to have a cake at all. Yeah. Well, 664 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: back to dresses, and I found this quite surprising because 665 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: apparently back in the day, the bride and bridesmaids used 666 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: to wear literally the same dress, and this was used 667 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: to try and confuse the bride's ex partner if he 668 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: was trying to steal her away. It was also used 669 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: as a method to outsmart evil spirits that were trying 670 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: to ruin the bride's happiness, because the theory was if 671 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: it's not obvious who the bride is and these people 672 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: can't ruin her day. Wait, so they could obviously wear 673 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: white then so you know, the whole non white thing 674 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 1: hasn't been that long of a tradition. Then well, the 675 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: thing is, I don't think it came down to the 676 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: color of the dress. I think it was more the 677 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: style because it was made by kuture designer and I'm 678 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: going to butcher this but Auguru or something I think 679 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: that name, yeah, when it might sound familiar to you 680 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: because it was actually the designer that created Olivia Rodgers's 681 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: second wedding dress. So it's fairly obvious that it was 682 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 1: a very fancy dress, and maybe it was a little 683 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: bit too fancy because it did seem to take the 684 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: attention away a little bit from the bride, particularly online. 685 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: It's funny because the only reason I'd really be annoyed 686 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 1: at someone for wearing a white dress is just because 687 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: I've forgone wearing really night white, nice white dresses before 688 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: in the past to engagement parts and weddings myself. I 689 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: have two funny traditions to end on. The first is, 690 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: do you guys know what the meaning of the garter is? 691 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: Because it's pretty disgusting. I feel like, whatever the meaning is, 692 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: it's going to make me not want to wear a garter. Yeah. So, 693 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: apparently back in the day, newly weds were expected to 694 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: consummate their marriage immediately after the wedding while their friends 695 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: and family waited and listened outside, so the groom would 696 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: then come out and present the garter to the crowd 697 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: once the deed was done. As a bit of a 698 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: light yep, it's happened. That is disgusting. Gues. My mum 699 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: keeps saying that she doesn't want to stay with you 700 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: and us after the at the Airbnb. 701 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 2: After the wedding, it's going to have a garter flung 702 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: at her. 703 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: Yuck. I don't know, maybe that's got something to do 704 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: with it. Well, lastly, I think you guys will find 705 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: this funny. Originally, the purpose of the best man was 706 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: to make sure the bride didn't escape during the ceremony, 707 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: so if the parents didn't agree with the marriage, the 708 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: best man was actually asked kidnap the bride. 709 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 710 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: And in terms of the title the best man, it 711 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: wasn't just you know, your best friend or your brother. 712 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,320 Speaker 1: Back then, it was the person who was the strongest 713 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: and most capable of using a sword or weapons to 714 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: fight off enemies and rival attackers during the ceremony. 715 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 2: This is fuck. 716 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: This makes me not want to have any sort of 717 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: wording traditions because it's so clear that they have been 718 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: created by these misogynistic men back hundreds of years ago. 719 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: So you're not going to have a best man because 720 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 1: well might have a best woman? No, No, yeah, Well 721 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: I just think it kind of puts into perspective this 722 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,560 Speaker 1: whole white dress debate and if your friend is happy 723 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: for you to wear a white dress, why not wear it. Well, 724 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: I think that's all we have time for today. Thank 725 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us for today's episode. If 726 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: you have enjoyed it, could you please make sure you 727 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple Podcasts and also Spotify and make sure 728 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: you mention the podcast to a friend. 729 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 2: I always love when people join our Facebook community. 730 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: And they say that they have been recommended the podcast 731 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: by a friend. And if you'd like to join in 732 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: on all the conversation, please head to our Facebook community, 733 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: which is outspoken the podcast community. 734 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: Please tell us what topics you did. 735 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: And did not enjoy, because we had a little debate 736 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: today about which ones were our faiths. We'd love to 737 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 1: hear your soaking the fire there and if you would 738 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: like to follow us on Instagram and on TikTok, you 739 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: can find us at Outspoken Underscore the Underscore Podcast