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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, Hello and welcome to the Happy Family's Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: name's doctor Justin Colson. I'm here with my wife from

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Speaker 1: Under our six Kids, Miss Happy Families, Kylie Coulson. For

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite episodes of the podcast and the

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Speaker 1: one that Kylie gets more excited about each month than

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Speaker 1: any other podcast. You're smiling at me.

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Speaker 2: Like for all the wrong reasons.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean, what do you get excited about

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Speaker 1: this podcast for? It's the doctor's desk excite. How would

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Speaker 1: you describe it? Don't answer that question. We have three

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Speaker 1: studies to talk about today, and they're fun studies. They're

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Speaker 1: the kind of studies that get people opinionated, I think

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Speaker 1: is the right word. We're going to talk about teenagers

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Speaker 1: and their mental health when it comes to screens. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about toddlers and their problematic media use

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Speaker 1: when it comes to screens. And then we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about teenagers in love and what it's doing to

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Speaker 1: the their sleep and their well being. And we'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why we discourage your kids from having any kind

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Speaker 1: of romantic relationship. Until I've finished high school. And it

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Speaker 1: ties in so well with the research. Where do you

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Speaker 1: want to start, Kylie?

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Speaker 2: Well, you sent me through some data which is just

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Speaker 2: blowing my mind.

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Speaker 1: Really new gallup seas just pause here? Are you telling

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Speaker 1: me that the doctor's desk is actually blowing your mind?

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Speaker 2: It always blows my mind. It doesn't mean I'm excited

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: By the way, for those of you who knew to

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Speaker 1: the podcast, once a month we go through the later

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Speaker 1: science as it relates to parenting. That's what we're doing here.

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Speaker 1: So what's the data say that blew your mind? Honeybun?

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Speaker 2: It shows that US teenagers spend an average of four

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Speaker 2: point eight hours per day using social media.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just stop there. This is really important. We're not

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Speaker 1: talking about other screen time. We're speaking specifically about social media.

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Speaker 1: Let's round it up four point eight let's call it

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Speaker 1: five hours per day on social media.

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Speaker 2: So kids are at school for six yeah hours make

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Speaker 2: out the lunch breaks, six hours at school. This is huge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so five hours a day and they've still got

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Speaker 1: to watch TV, do homework, play video games, and do

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff as well. So a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of screen time.

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Speaker 2: But then it goes on to say that nearly thirty

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Speaker 2: percent of teenagers surveyed spent upwards of six hours.

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Speaker 1: Huge, huge numbers. So what do you think they're doing?

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Speaker 1: If you were to guess what they're doing, where would

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Speaker 1: you point.

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Speaker 2: I think for a lot of them, there is a

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Speaker 2: huge level of communication going on using their social platform.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so instruments snap are huge for communication and sharing

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Speaker 1: ideas and things with one another.

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Speaker 2: But I would suggest that the majority of their time

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Speaker 2: would be scrolling.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the two most popular platforms YouTube and TikTok

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Speaker 1: YouTube and TikTok.

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Speaker 2: I was actually just talking to a handful of girls

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Speaker 2: the other day in relation to their school is get

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Speaker 2: away and these kids they're not up for partying at

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Speaker 2: night or anything like that. So one of the girls

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Speaker 2: would go to the other girls room and she said

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Speaker 2: she was literally on TV watching the infomercials, literally just

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Speaker 2: one advertisement after the other. Like, our kids are just

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Speaker 2: happy to be consumers of content, regardless of what the

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Speaker 2: content is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this this is the really interesting for me.

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Speaker 1: In this research that came out of Gallop, they found

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Speaker 1: that kids that the main reason that they're using their

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Speaker 1: screens is are you ready for it?

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Speaker 2: Boredom.

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Speaker 1: Boredom. Yeah, and this is why I keep on saying

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Speaker 1: that it's not good for kids to be bored. Like

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Speaker 1: in the Mummy blogger sphere and all other instagram and

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Speaker 1: even a lot of parenting experts, they are constantly saying, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good for kids to be bored because they're going

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Speaker 1: to get creative and because they're going to discover stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, no, they're not. They're going to sit

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Speaker 1: on their screens. They're going to stir at social media

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Speaker 1: for five or six hours a day, which is what

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Speaker 1: this research is showing. We've got to we've got to

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Speaker 1: be really mindful of that. Now, the research is looking

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Speaker 1: at mental health problems and screen use, and this is

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Speaker 1: where it gets really provocative. Okay, so there is a

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Speaker 1: relationship in this data highlighting that higher levels of screen

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Speaker 1: use are associated with mental health problems. But and I

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Speaker 1: can't emphasize this enough. This is something that I've been

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Speaker 1: so conflicted by this over the years, and I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to firm up my opinion and ironically it's going counter

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Speaker 1: to the prevailing opinion, which often happens with me. But

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Speaker 1: the reason for it is this social media critics are

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Speaker 1: all about saying screens are damaging our kids. And there's

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Speaker 1: no doubt that some kids truly are being harmed by

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Speaker 1: what's going on with screens and social media use. But

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Speaker 1: the data shows that the effects of this are really small,

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Speaker 1: particularly in relation to the large decline in mental health

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of decades. Like, it's a genuinely

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Speaker 1: small decline. And also there's a difference between correlation and causation,

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Speaker 1: which is super important to highlight.

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Speaker 2: Hang on, you're saying that there's been a massive decline

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Speaker 2: in mental health.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, okay, okay, mental illness is on the way up.

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you pick that up. I hear so many,

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Speaker 1: even medical professionals, they say, oh, yeah, yeah, the problem

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Speaker 1: was mental health. No, the problem is not mental health.

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Speaker 1: The problem is mental illness or a lack of mental health.

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Speaker 1: Please don't say that somebody's issue is mental health. That's

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Speaker 1: not the issue. The issue is mental illness or a

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Speaker 1: lack of mental health.

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Speaker 2: So there's been a decline in mental health, which means

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Speaker 2: an increase in mental illness.

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Speaker 1: Correct, that's exactly right. Now, they are different things. You

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Speaker 1: can actually have high levels of mental illness and still

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Speaker 1: be functioning reasonably well and have high levels of well

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Speaker 1: being at the same time, in the same way that

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Speaker 1: you can have high levels of grief but still have

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Speaker 1: moments of joy, delight, and happiness. Okay, so two things

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Speaker 1: can be true at once. Anyway, that's a kind of

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Speaker 1: a side note. What's really driving the So I've got

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Speaker 1: a friend. His name is Andy Shapulski works at Oxford

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Speaker 1: at the Institute of the Oxford Internet Institute, and Andy

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Speaker 1: Shappowski has famously said that the amount of time you

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Speaker 1: spend on screen means, including social media, matters less for

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Speaker 1: your well being than how many potatoes you eat each week,

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Speaker 1: which is quite a provocative thing to say. In other words,

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Speaker 1: your well being is affected more by the potatoes you

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Speaker 1: eat and how much social media time you're getting. And

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Speaker 1: what he's really highlighting here is something that I think

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Speaker 1: is really important, and this research I think supports this.

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Speaker 1: Social media in and of itself may or may not

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Speaker 1: be a problem. But if kids are living whole and

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Speaker 1: balanced lives, if they're getting outside, moving their bodies, well,

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Speaker 1: if they're living whole.

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Speaker 2: And balanced lives, they don't have six hours to sit

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Speaker 2: on a screen.

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Speaker 1: They probably don't. That's right, they're going to be getting

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Speaker 1: enough sleep, and they're going to be spending time with

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Speaker 1: their friends and spending time in a relationship. I think

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Speaker 1: that the decline in well being for our children is

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Speaker 1: actually related more to a lack of physical activity, a

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Speaker 1: lack of time in nature, a lack of play, and

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Speaker 1: increased control by parents, increased expectations by parents that the

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Speaker 1: kids have got to be amazing to me, that's what

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Speaker 1: it comes down to. Support to why I'm saying it.

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Speaker 1: Have listened to this. This is from the Gallop poll

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Speaker 1: that was run with the Institute for Family Studies in

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Speaker 1: the United States. Children they found who exhibit greater self control,

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Speaker 1: So that's a personality characteristic. If you've go kids who

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Speaker 1: are more conscientious. In other words, children who are more

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Speaker 1: conscientious or have greater self control, and or who live

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Speaker 1: with their parents who restrict screen time and supervise them

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Speaker 1: and have a strong relationship with them spend a whole

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Speaker 1: lot less time on social media than those without these characteristics.

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Speaker 1: They found that, for example, adolescence who exhibit high levels

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Speaker 1: of conscientiousness spend on average about one point two hours

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Speaker 1: less per day on social media than those scoring low

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Speaker 1: on conscientiousness, and if they're living with a parent who

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Speaker 1: agrees or strongly agrees that he or she should restrict

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Speaker 1: screen time, then the adolescent reports one point seven few

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Speaker 1: hours on average of social media use compared to adolescents

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Speaker 1: whose parents don't restrict screen time. In other words, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about up to three hours with conscientious Kids whose

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Speaker 1: parents are involved in their lives and are saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need to keep an eye in your screen time,

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Speaker 1: they're going to do better. Youth who report a stronger

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Speaker 1: and more loving relationship with their caregivers and spend less

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Speaker 1: time unsupervised also use social media less frequently, and guess

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Speaker 1: why their mental health is better. So I think all

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Speaker 1: of this stuff kind of combines to say, live healthy,

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Speaker 1: happy lives, and screens can play a part in your

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Speaker 1: life and you'll be okay. But if you're not doing well,

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Speaker 1: screens are only going to amplify and magnify that challenge.

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Speaker 2: So studying number two, four hundred and thirty five parents

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Speaker 2: actually participated in this study.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this one is looking at toddlers and their screens.

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Speaker 1: Let's go through this one fairly quickly, because well, we've

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Speaker 1: talked too long about the first one, and I really

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Speaker 1: want to get to the third one because it's fun. Basically,

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Speaker 1: Jane Shawcroft, she's at the University of California Davis. She

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Speaker 1: studies how we can leverage media and technology for emotional health.

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Speaker 1: And she's got all these parents looking at their kids

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Speaker 1: at two and a half, three and a half, and

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Speaker 1: four and a half. So it's a two year study

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Speaker 1: looking at their TV use and their tablet use. Study

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Speaker 1: was published in technol Your Minor Behavior, and what they

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Speaker 1: basically found is that the overwhelming majority of parents, sixty

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Speaker 1: four percent of parents have some sort of rule about

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Speaker 1: how much TV time their kids get, and most of them,

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Speaker 1: about twenty two percent, are saying yet less than an

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Speaker 1: hour day is ideal for our two and a half

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Speaker 1: year old.

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Speaker 2: So this doesn't surprise me because on the podcast specifically

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Speaker 2: but kind of, I guess general speaking, you'll hear the

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Speaker 2: notion that less than two hours a day of screen

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Speaker 2: time is optimal for our kids growing up. So to

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Speaker 2: see that rule playing out in more than half the parents,

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Speaker 2: that doesn't shock me at all.

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Speaker 1: That yeah, and I'll even add with kids under five,

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Speaker 1: less than an hour's ideal, so that's consistent with that.

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Speaker 1: But This is the really interesting thing. Only forty percent

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Speaker 1: of parents that they had some sort of rule about

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Speaker 1: their kids use of tablets.

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Speaker 2: So I am actually not surprised about that either. And

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Speaker 2: the reason I'm not surprised about it is because I

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Speaker 2: think most parents will acknowledge that a tablet or an

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Speaker 2: iPhone when we're out and about is the best distraction

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Speaker 2: for our kids. If we need our kids occupied, but

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Speaker 2: we have to have them in our space. You're out

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Speaker 2: at a restaurant, you're going shopping, you're at the dottres,

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Speaker 2: all of those kinds of things. It's so easy to

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Speaker 2: give your child a screen which keeps them completely occupied.

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Speaker 2: You know that they will be exactly where you left them.

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Speaker 2: They're not moving, they're not going anywhere. You might not

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Speaker 2: even get a yes or a no from them because

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Speaker 2: they're so engrossed in what they're doing. So it doesn't

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Speaker 2: actually surprise me that parents don't kind of see this

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Speaker 2: as problematic because it's actually such a helpful tool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so only ten percent of parents said that they

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Speaker 1: didn't allow their kids to have used a tablet, So

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Speaker 1: pretty much everyone's like, yeah, kids can use it, we

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Speaker 1: don't really have any rules for it. What the research

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Speaker 1: has found was that it takes time to really get results. Here,

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Speaker 1: they found that from two and a half to three

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Speaker 1: and a half there was no real issue when it

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Speaker 1: came to problematic media, but by the time the kids

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Speaker 1: before and a half, there was a really really big increase.

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Speaker 1: The more kids were allowed to use their screens, particularly tablets,

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Speaker 1: but even the TV, the more likely it was that

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Speaker 1: there was going to be problematic media use. So a

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Speaker 1: couple of really simple lessons here. Number one, sometimes it

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Speaker 1: takes a while to figure out what social media or

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Speaker 1: tablets or screens generally TV what it's doing to our kids. Definitely, definitely.

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Speaker 1: The second thing to say would be the rules about

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Speaker 1: TV and screens and tablets and things actually do matter,

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Speaker 1: Like as parents, we need to be across this with

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Speaker 1: our little kids, otherwise it could be unhealthy. And the

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Speaker 1: third rule would be just to be really intentional, Like

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Speaker 1: we're not saying don't put the kids in front of screens.

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Speaker 1: We're saying be purposeful. No when you're doing it, know

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Speaker 1: why you're doing it, know what they're doing there, and

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Speaker 1: make sure that there are reasonable limits. Because the kids

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Speaker 1: need to live whole, balanced, full lives. They need to

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Speaker 1: be connected with you. They need to be playing, they

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Speaker 1: need to be outdoors in nature. It's almost the same

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Speaker 1: as what we were talking about before with the teenagers and

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Speaker 1: their social media use. So I got a careful for

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Speaker 1: you throw out my way.

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Speaker 2: So we've got a two month old grandchild, ye, and

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Speaker 2: she has just in the last few weeks become very engaged.

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Speaker 2: You've got great eye contact. She lights up when she

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Speaker 2: sees you walk in the room. And they've been away

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Speaker 2: for a few days and Chanelle has actually called so

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Speaker 2: that I can see the baby and talk to her.

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Speaker 2: And I've watched as the screen's got closer and my

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Speaker 2: face is right there, her whole eyes light up, and

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Speaker 2: she kind of gets a little bit stiff and kicks

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Speaker 2: her legs and she's really excited. So we've got families

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Speaker 2: all around the world who are dealing with distance and

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Speaker 2: having the capacity to see your loved one's face on

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Speaker 2: a screen. How does that impact kids? I guess curiosity

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Speaker 2: as they grow in wanting to have access to screens.

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Speaker 1: So they're definitely going to want to have screens because

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Speaker 1: they're familiar with them, but also they're excitatory and their

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Speaker 1: stimulatory OK, that's going to happen. I think it's really

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Speaker 1: important to remember this. That kind of contact is delightful

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Speaker 1: if it's the only contact you can get, But we

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Speaker 1: still want to keep screens still on minimum. We know

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Speaker 1: that screens are affecting babies and toddler's brains in ways

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Speaker 1: that are not healthy. That's the first thing. Secondly, on

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Speaker 1: the Doctor's Desk podcast, maybe about nine months ago, we

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Speaker 1: did an episode where I talked about how kids were

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Speaker 1: either engaged in a face to face interaction with a

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Speaker 1: parent or they were engaged in a technology based interaction

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Speaker 1: face to face through the screens. And what the research

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Speaker 1: has found was that there was about twenty percent of

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Speaker 1: the brain lighting up and getting excited about the interaction

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Speaker 1: when it was on a screen, whereas one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: was going crazy when it was face to face. In

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Speaker 1: other words, you just can't beat the real thing.

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Speaker 2: Of course, but when the real thing's not there.

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Speaker 1: Well you take what you can get when the real

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Speaker 1: thing's on there, but you push for the real thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm really missing us Number three is one that you're

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Speaker 2: obviously extremely excited about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't have a lot of time for it,

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Speaker 1: but let's go.

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Speaker 2: A new study published in The Behavioral Sleep Medicine Journal

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Speaker 2: has found that beginning a romantic relationship or going through

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Speaker 2: a breakup can impact poorly upon the sleep of adolescence.

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Speaker 2: But it's suggesting particularly in younger adolescent females.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we have this feels.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say this feels a little bit from

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Speaker 2: the Journal of Dure.

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Speaker 1: The journal, Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, because when you

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Speaker 1: are in a new relationship is very exciting and you

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Speaker 1: can't sleep, And when a relationship breaks up, you're very

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Speaker 1: sad and you can't sleep.

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Speaker 2: Like the dopamine hit. We get from connection, real deep connection.

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Speaker 1: Is you're someone's special, someone so addictive.

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Speaker 2: We are wired to connect, and the younger these relationships start,

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Speaker 2: the harder it is, I think.

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Speaker 1: University of Pennsylvania researchers found that adolescents can be impacted

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Speaker 1: emotionally and behaviorally, research suggesting issues like lowered self esteem,

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Speaker 1: more mood swings, more alcohol, and substance abuse when kids

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Speaker 1: break up, when a relationship falls apart, and they're in

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Speaker 1: their teens, so they had it a little over seven

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Speaker 1: thousand middle and high school kids followed for around about

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Speaker 1: a year or thereabouts, and they basically looked at sleep duration, insomnia,

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Speaker 1: romantic experiences, and they found that experiencing either the start

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Speaker 1: or the end of a relationship was associated with sleep

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Speaker 1: problems or a lack of sleep or both. Not, like

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Speaker 1: you said, not revelatory in any massive way, but are

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Speaker 1: reminded when you've got young kids, especially because they're using

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Speaker 1: their screens so much. They don't switch off. They're texting

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Speaker 1: each other at eight, at nine and ten, at eleven

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Speaker 1: and twelve o'clock at night, and they're doing everything they

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Speaker 1: can to be together during the relationship, and at the

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Speaker 1: end of the relationship, it really affects their well being.

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Speaker 1: We have discouraged our kids from having relationships of any

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Speaker 1: kind of a romantic nature while they're at school. We

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Speaker 1: haven't always succeeded with that because we don't force our kids,

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Speaker 1: but this is one of the reasons why it affects

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Speaker 1: well being so much.

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Speaker 2: Well. I think the thing that stood out to me

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Speaker 2: in this study was just the acknowledgment that younger adolescents

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Speaker 2: under fifteen years of age, this is bigger and harder

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Speaker 2: for them because they just there's so much going on

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Speaker 2: in their development at that point in time. So the

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Speaker 2: longer we can prolong those romantic relationships. I think, the

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Speaker 2: happier our kids going to be.

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Speaker 1: We need to wrap it up there. We'll link to

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Speaker 1: these studies in our show notes so that you can

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Speaker 1: check them out for yourself if there's anything that sparked

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Speaker 1: some interest for you. The Happy Family's podcast is produced

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Speaker 1: by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our

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Speaker 1: executive producer. More information about making your family happy is

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Speaker 1: available at happy families dot com dot au