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Speaker 1: Here at Two Good Sports, we would like to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land on which we record

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Speaker 1: this podcast. There were innerie people.

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Speaker 2: This land was never seated, always was, always will be.

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Speaker 1: Greetings, dear listeners and gentle folk. It is our favorite

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Speaker 1: favorite favorite time of the week because I get to

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Speaker 1: sit across from one of my favorite favorite favorite faces

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Speaker 1: in the studio. I'm Georgie Tunney.

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Speaker 2: I'm Rob Mills. No, I'm kidding, I am Abby Jeremy.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Two Good Sports and we are in each

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Speaker 2: other's orbit, which always means that it's going to be

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Speaker 2: a particularly interesting episode. George, how are you to start with?

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm actually really good. I'm really good. It's been

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Speaker 1: a very busy week, as it always is. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm that person. How are you busy? I'm yet to

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Speaker 1: find another adjective, guys. But one day, one day I

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Speaker 1: will I was thrilled that we was able to be

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Speaker 1: up in Sydney for the Asian Cup Final. I got

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Speaker 1: to be there. Unfortunately, our beautiful Matilda's they did go

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Speaker 1: down one Neil two Japan, but it was so it

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Speaker 1: reminded me how wonderful it is to go to a

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Speaker 1: Matilda's game one hundred percent, Like it's just a vibe.

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Speaker 1: There were so many kids, probably more kids than I've

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Speaker 1: ever seen at a Matilda's game. There were seventy four

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Speaker 1: thousand people there, so it was a huge crowd. There

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Speaker 1: were so many kids, there were so many women. You

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Speaker 1: just feel the joy, you feel the safety, you just

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Speaker 1: feel the happiness, you feel the smiles, like it's a

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Speaker 1: physical thing. It's just it was so much fun.

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Speaker 2: Such an engaged crowd as well.

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Speaker 1: So engaged.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, like every shot on goal, every place, you

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Speaker 2: could feel the energy building, says me through the screen,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't get one of all these seventy four

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Speaker 2: thousand diggers, but I was in Sydney for it. Oh,

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Speaker 2: they came so close, George. Oh, it was their best

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Speaker 2: performance of the tournament.

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Speaker 1: I thought we were the better team. Yes, I thought

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Speaker 1: it was one of those cases. And this is that's

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Speaker 1: a huge compliment because as we were speaking to Caitlyn

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Speaker 1: Torpy last week before the game, you know, the Matildas

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Speaker 1: weren't really heading into this as favorites. So for them

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Speaker 1: to be the better team at the end of that

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Speaker 1: final and yet still lose, I was like, hold your

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Speaker 1: head's tigh girls. But I think that seeing them all

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Speaker 1: kind of collapsed on the ground, you know, snipers like

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Speaker 1: taken them out because they were so sad, and I

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Speaker 1: just that really hit home for me because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is a special group. We're not going to see

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Speaker 1: this group together for that much longer. This is one

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Speaker 1: of the last chance.

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Speaker 2: We will really see.

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Speaker 1: Really.

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Speaker 2: We had Joe Montemiro on the next day, which, to

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Speaker 2: his credit, showed up after a losing Grand Final to

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Speaker 2: come and have a chat on ABC, and the narrative

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Speaker 2: immediately from everywhere is like, is this the end of

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Speaker 2: an era? Is this their last chance as a group,

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Speaker 2: And he's like, yeah, yeah, okay, but like no, politely

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Speaker 2: as in, okay, there's maybe a few players that this

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Speaker 2: might be their last campaign, but the line share of

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Speaker 2: this group definitely he will be taking through to the

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Speaker 2: World Cup next year.

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Speaker 1: My argument, though, is it's this Sam Curz, It's the

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Speaker 1: Caitlin Falls, it's the Alana Kennedy's that It's like, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to World Cup.

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Speaker 2: Japan lost an Asian Cup then won a World Cup.

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Speaker 1: Oh so hang on, there's a model.

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Speaker 2: There is a pattern behavior here with this and on

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Speaker 2: coming round something else that he said that. I was like,

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Speaker 2: that's we had other games. We had three shots on

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Speaker 2: goal and two came off. We had four thousands, that's true,

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Speaker 2: and just none of them could find the back of

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Speaker 2: the X. Actually, sometimes the gods just aren't on your side.

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Speaker 2: But I do think there's something about a Matilda's crowd

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Speaker 2: that is a salve for everything else that is going

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Speaker 2: on in the world. But it makes you feel icky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that I know that our listeners will understand

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Speaker 1: this because you and I understand it at a spiritual level.

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Speaker 1: It turns your brain off.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it does.

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Speaker 1: It turns your brain off. It turns your brain off,

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Speaker 1: and you just go to that realm and you're like.

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Speaker 2: It's nice here, it's lovely here, how lovely. I'll just

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Speaker 2: bet it's quiet and so loud.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just be That's what they do. That's what

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Speaker 1: they do. So I've had a great week. I've had

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Speaker 1: a great week because of that. That's where it started,

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Speaker 1: and it's continued.

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Speaker 2: How are you we love this? No, we're good. We're good.

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Speaker 2: Was also up in Sydney, and as you're watching that game,

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Speaker 2: you're like, our program rides and the general energy rides

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Speaker 2: on this coming off. Please for the love of God,

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Speaker 2: but I think if there was such thing as a

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Speaker 2: winning loss, that was it because we saw that what

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Speaker 2: Joe Montemurro is trying to impart on this team works.

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Speaker 2: And I think the belief from the group of going

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Speaker 2: this sort of more heavier possession football is something that

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Speaker 2: is going to be a legacy piece. And I do

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Speaker 2: think it was so funny that not funny but Football

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Speaker 2: Australia chose the morning of that final to go, hey,

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Speaker 2: we need money for women's football. See this thing that's

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Speaker 2: bringing two hundred and forty million dollars to the economy

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Speaker 2: in New South Wales at junior level with an uptick

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Speaker 2: of thirty percent more kids wanting to be involved as

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Speaker 2: girls in soccer. We don't have girls change rooms. They

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Speaker 2: use the term critical issue. We need three hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty million just to get it up to a level

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Speaker 2: where girls can actually get changed. After they train.

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Speaker 1: They pick their moments, they pick their moments.

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Speaker 2: We'll also work it out. Women's football has done the

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Speaker 2: hardest thing and I hear what do you hear? That?

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Speaker 2: That's netball crying in the corner because what they've done.

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Speaker 1: Is Queen Liz just flinched?

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Speaker 2: Everyone cares. Everyone cares and if you ask the average

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Speaker 2: show to name a soccer they can't. If you ask

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Speaker 2: them to name in Matilda, they say, do you want

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Speaker 2: my top five faves? Then in order? So we've got

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Speaker 2: the care factor and something that we need is to

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Speaker 2: have the method that we want to play. I e.

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Speaker 2: Japan have a one hundred year plan, but there are

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Speaker 2: only twenty one years into terrifying.

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Speaker 1: They're only there are a fifth of the way in.

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Speaker 2: No, don't think they but they are well done.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Any particular teachers you want to think for that.

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Speaker 1: For you know what, I would like to accept the

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Speaker 1: Nobel price.

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Speaker 2: Well from the age where you were probably getting tested

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Speaker 2: on what one fifth of one hundred is. This is

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Speaker 2: when Japan implementing if you want to play for the country,

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Speaker 2: this is the level.

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Speaker 1: Of that's good match from you, Thank you, thank you,

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Speaker 1: return surf well douge.

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Speaker 2: But what we need is consistency and I think hopefully

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Speaker 2: the Matilda's and the brand that they've built is at

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Speaker 2: least going to lead to some consistency in the brand

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Speaker 2: of football that the Matilda's play, that it's not just

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Speaker 2: simply going to be who's the head coach at the moment?

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Speaker 2: What did they want? And the brand that we saw

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Speaker 2: was beautiful football. The ball just in here the back

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Speaker 2: of my mind.

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Speaker 1: I believe that you you actually said, well, maybe we

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Speaker 1: said it best. You messaged me before the game started

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Speaker 1: and you said, how are you feeling, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I've actually got a really good feeling. And at the

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Speaker 1: end of the game, I said, update, the feeling was

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Speaker 1: incorrect and jil mccurse it would have been more correct

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Speaker 1: if they'd made any of the thirty seven and ninety

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Speaker 1: two shots on golf.

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Speaker 2: That's actually what I wrote you. Wow, Wow, it was.

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Speaker 1: A noisy brain babm And you what the best that is?

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Speaker 2: We haven't got into good sport, a bad good sport?

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Speaker 2: Who's your badsport?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I have part I'm going to start with

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Speaker 1: the good sport because I've been cheeking and I've got

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Speaker 1: a couple, so I'm a good sport this week. And

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Speaker 1: it's all related is of course Queen Mary. No, I

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Speaker 1: know the royals from Denmark have been here, not that one.

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Speaker 2: She tried to kick a sheron though, and she got

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Speaker 2: ahold of it.

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Speaker 1: Yes she did. What's she doing with Hawthorne anyway? So

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Speaker 1: that she must be They've got to work harder on that.

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Speaker 1: But Mary Power, Yes, you know how much I love her? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know how complicated my relationship is with her significant

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Speaker 1: other Nathan Cleary.

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Speaker 2: It's not complicated.

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Speaker 1: You hate him, but sure, okay hate, but I'm also

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Speaker 1: envious that he does stop play for the Broncos. Her

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Speaker 1: latest Instagram post just tickled all of the itches that

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Speaker 1: I have as a fangirl because I got to just

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Speaker 1: see it was all these candid photos of them hanging out,

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Speaker 1: them on holidays, them together, and I thought.

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Speaker 2: I've got my phone, Mary, I haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: For being an athlete who lets us behind the scenes.

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Speaker 2: The algorithm hasn't let me down because I obviously followed,

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Speaker 2: but I haven't. Oh no, it's very lovely.

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Speaker 1: Very lovely, look just like them being cute and actually.

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Speaker 2: But it's also like very twenty twenty twelve.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's what the children do these days, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's text on it.

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Speaker 1: I know you could you would never You're like.

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Speaker 2: At filter. I like she's gone retro, but like, if

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Speaker 2: you scroll back long enough in my feed, you get

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Speaker 2: back to this.

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Speaker 1: See everything. She's so happy, so happy.

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Speaker 2: There's a love heart in her coffee.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm selling food brand.

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Speaker 2: She's in twenty twelve. What is happening?

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Speaker 1: This is why I love it. She's a hidden millennial

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Speaker 1: just performing as a zoomer.

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Speaker 2: There's more coffee. Oh my god, she is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just coffee manicures, the Valencia filter and

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Speaker 1: Nathan Cleve. I know what beautiful.

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Speaker 2: What I'm gonna highlight as my favorite. She's posted. She's

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Speaker 2: posted a montage if you're listening at home, of four

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Speaker 2: different shots saying watching him killing it with the blowing

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Speaker 2: out emoji, in the fire and all of this. But

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Speaker 2: she's got on Fox League. But in the foreground she's

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Speaker 2: got her nails dry. Still a general level of interest. There, no,

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Speaker 2: we love No, this is safe. Good sport, good sport.

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Speaker 2: I love to know the person behind the athlete.

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Speaker 1: You know this. And finally I get glimpses whenever I

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Speaker 1: get these.

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Speaker 2: Little girl and have a look. She's hugging a tree

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Speaker 2: at one point she looks very happy.

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Speaker 1: So that that is my good sport for the week.

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Speaker 2: Doing a bad one.

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Speaker 1: I've just got her thoughts about about that. Just got

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Speaker 1: some thoughts. I'm gonna make it quick. Gonna make it quick, Okay. Now,

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Speaker 1: while I am not condoning any of our footy AFL

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Speaker 1: fans listening, why, I'm not condoning what Patrick Voss did

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Speaker 1: for the Dockers when he taunted Hayden Petty from the

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Speaker 1: Melbourne Demons over the weekend by rubbing the ball spot.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry Hayden the ball spot on his head.

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Speaker 1: While I'm not condoning that behavior, what I did really

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Speaker 1: love was him lifting Langdon up in like the fire

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Speaker 1: and bloody lift that he had, and I do you

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Speaker 1: know what his personality and while I don't agree with humiliation,

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Speaker 1: I don't want that so I am. When I actually

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Speaker 1: saw what he was doing to Hayden and like specifically

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Speaker 1: taunting him about his ball spot, I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: do I like this? Do I not like this? I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure my badspot is actually the AFL being like,

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Speaker 1: let's just stamp out all of this tough guy stuff

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Speaker 1: and has given a directive to the umpires this weekend

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Speaker 1: so that if anyone is there ruffling other's hair, they're

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Speaker 1: gonna get what like a free no.

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Speaker 2: Don't see I.

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Speaker 1: Am for it, the ruffling of the hair man.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm I'm for as a mod. They're of young

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Speaker 2: boys when you're trying to instill don't be a ship.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay.

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Speaker 2: It goes back to me with the our favorite vas

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Speaker 2: linka needing to put up the finger all the time.

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Speaker 2: If I'm trying to tell my future ten and twelve

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Speaker 2: year old, we don't give the finger. It's rude. You

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Speaker 2: don't do it. And their star players are turning around

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Speaker 2: and giving it to the crowd. Oh yes, you know

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Speaker 2: your Harley reads as well. You sit back and you go,

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Speaker 2: how am I meant to combat that?

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Speaker 1: True?

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Speaker 2: True? So, And there's a level of and again. I

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Speaker 2: was listening to talk back radio stun you and they

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Speaker 2: sort of said, look at the greats of the game.

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Speaker 2: None of the greats of the game did it. None

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Speaker 2: of the greats of the game of AFL had that

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Speaker 2: level of arsehole or rugby league. I was like, hang on,

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Speaker 2: kick of John's John Picker, John's you want an immortal,

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Speaker 2: I'll give you an immortal. That was probably a bit

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Speaker 2: of a dick at times. No AFL like I just

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's unnecessary, and I do. They're not

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Speaker 2: they're not. They don't have to be poster boys for

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Speaker 2: the game. Will Sos Yeah, And we can't do it

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Speaker 2: on a case by case basis, so let's just rule

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Speaker 2: it out all together. And sorry, call me the fun police,

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Speaker 2: but that's how I feel about it. But my good sport.

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Speaker 2: Yes is the AFL and Andrew Dillon good friend.

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Speaker 1: Of the pot, good friend of the pot.

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Speaker 2: Their ability to piggyback on a story just because they

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Speaker 2: want some headlines is chef kiss you will remember earlier

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Speaker 2: in the year. Yeah, we'd love to be part of

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Speaker 2: the Olympics. Cool story. Bro is the Australian football.

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Speaker 1: No one plays, no one one?

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Speaker 2: Do you know what he except this country? Chanelle bring

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Speaker 2: out a revolutionary ad during the week for their new

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Speaker 2: bag that I'm desperate for but not in this economy.

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Speaker 2: Feel that that price, There's no chance it is all

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Speaker 2: of my areas. Kylie Minogue's film clipping recreated with Margot

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Speaker 2: Robbie coming out of a library in Paris vomit. It's perfect,

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Speaker 2: so perfect? Do what else is perfect? The AFL going

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Speaker 2: we would like Kylie for a Twilight Grand Final. The

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Speaker 2: same day they read the Room and thought, you know,

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Speaker 2: we'll get we'll get all of the women.

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Speaker 1: Yes, ah, why has she not played.

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Speaker 2: Before because she refuses to do a daytime concert. This

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Speaker 2: is a genuine thing. So she did the Jubilee oh well, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: but also because it was at night, so she has

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Speaker 2: put a blanket. I'm not performing in that light. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, Kylie, we agree.

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Speaker 1: We agree well with you. Lighting is important.

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Speaker 2: The lighting.

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Speaker 1: Lighting is the number one thing.

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Speaker 2: Which when you think of back to the Paris opening games, right,

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Speaker 2: it's hard to create that stadium field. So Kylie, mude,

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Speaker 2: Kylie's gone, absolutely not. I need a twilight Grand Final

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Speaker 2: and I'll do it at halftime. Thanks, and the AFL's gone.

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Speaker 1: I'll do it halftime.

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Speaker 2: We will move the mountain to Muhammad. Kylie. We will

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Speaker 2: change the Grand Final if you will perform in no confirmation.

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Speaker 1: That I just thought it sounds like you've confirmed it

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Speaker 1: happen if they got Kylie. Can I also just say,

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Speaker 1: just because you know, I'm always gonna have to be

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Speaker 1: like that, hold on a second rugby league because Albo

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Speaker 1: was at a party with Kylie was singing out just

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Speaker 1: last week, so hopefully Residence rugby League person. We're just

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Speaker 1: making that, you know, Peter Landy has been like, oh, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: do you know Peter, Let's do these introductions and get you.

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Speaker 2: At the Kylie at Rugby League.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful lighting, beautiful lighting, a grand final, beautiful lighting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah for wolf Mother you can have him, you can

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Speaker 2: have him. Isn't that how it's a personal It was?

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Speaker 2: It wasn't it. I'm sure eskimo Jo are available. Enjoy

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Speaker 2: we you will have Kylie. No hate on both of them.

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Speaker 2: Great Tamim Parlu very very popular.

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Speaker 1: Am My thoughts about they never end a solo, They

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Speaker 1: never end. I've gone to unwillingly. I've been to like

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Speaker 1: seventy eight wolf Mother concerts because every well NRL, but

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Speaker 1: every festival that they're at, they're always there before the

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Speaker 1: person I want to see, and their set goes for

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Speaker 1: nine hours, nine hours before the Cooks.

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Speaker 2: What for sure one Monday okay, okay, the Cooks would

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Speaker 2: be a great get. They would be a great great

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Speaker 2: one of them makes that happen.

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Speaker 1: Everything seems to be happening for me this year. So

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Speaker 1: if they I'm just going to manifest that manifest the Cooks,

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Speaker 1: all right?

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Speaker 2: So that was good?

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Speaker 1: Probably No, No, we also do guys, we've gone, We've

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Speaker 1: come in as per usual. You'd expect nothing less from us,

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Speaker 1: dear listeners out one thousand and eight. I think this

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Speaker 1: week it's fair to say we're good at maths, as

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Speaker 1: we've proven thus far. But for our main discussion this week,

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Speaker 1: we are going to take it down a couple of

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Speaker 1: notches because we do have quite a serious chat to have.

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Speaker 1: There's an unfortunate anniversary coming up for one of us,

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Speaker 1: one of the good sports, and we think you need

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Speaker 1: to know about it.

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Speaker 2: That's next. I'm nervous, which always means that we're about

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Speaker 2: to have a chat that's important. But George, I called

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Speaker 2: you on the way in today and I said, look,

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Speaker 2: I know that we've got some things line up that

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Speaker 2: we want to do for our general chat, but what

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Speaker 2: do you think about this one? And my hesitance was

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Speaker 2: for two reasons, one being is deeply personal and something

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Speaker 2: I haven't spoken about. But on the other side, we're

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Speaker 2: very aware this is a sports podcast and I think

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Speaker 2: it might be a bit of a stretch. But I

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Speaker 2: also think it is the conditions of being a woman

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Speaker 2: in sport that allowed it to get to the point

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Speaker 2: that it did. Before I sought authorities and what I've

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Speaker 2: learned through that process is I think something that every

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Speaker 2: woman could learn from or anyone that finds themselves in

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Speaker 2: this position. So it's a conversation I only want to

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Speaker 2: have with you and that I'd like to have in

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Speaker 2: this space. But I do think that if it helps

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Speaker 2: one person feel like again, if they find themselves in

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Speaker 2: the same position, they know that there's actually something that

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Speaker 2: can be done, I think it's worth it.

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Speaker 1: I'm nervous too, fully, like on the table, because I

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Speaker 1: just want to like wrap you in a little ball

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Speaker 1: of cotton more and like sprint you out of the studio.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I'd be open to that.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know. Well, oh, let's see

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Speaker 1: how this chat goes, because it could just come. I

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Speaker 1: could just tackle you from the frame. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but of course I'm here to hold

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Speaker 1: space for you. And it is a very very important conversation.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about what this moment, this particular year, the

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Speaker 1: significance that it has for you that it wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: had two years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this time last year was the beginning of

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Speaker 2: an ongoing case of sexual harassment, essentially against myself. I'd

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Speaker 2: a very young. Baby Ollie was born late November, so

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Speaker 2: I think he was about two and a half three

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Speaker 2: months old when I remember the first instance where it

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Speaker 2: happened because it was about two thirty in the morning

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Speaker 2: and I was sitting breastfeeding my kid, as you do

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Speaker 2: because it's in the middle of the night, and you're

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Speaker 2: the one that's up, and my phone lit up with

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Speaker 2: a random number trying to FaceTime me, and classic I've

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Speaker 2: thought where in the world is this coming from, but

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Speaker 2: also just thinking it's a spam, but a FaceTime felt

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Speaker 2: particularly invasive when it's a number that you don't know.

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Speaker 2: Didn't think twice about it, and then the messages started

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Speaker 2: coming and they were in quick succession. Hey baby, Hey honey,

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Speaker 2: I thought you might want to see this, and it

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Speaker 2: was a very very sexually explicit video and you immediately

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Speaker 2: go cold and also just think this is really, you know,

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Speaker 2: aggressive and full on. Also you're holding your kids, so

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Speaker 2: I just sort of put my phone down and ignored it,

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Speaker 2: and then the face times kept coming, so it made me,

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Speaker 2: as you can imagine, just supremely uncomfortable. You block a

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Speaker 2: number as you do, and I remember going, who, what's happened?

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Speaker 2: What's happened here? And how is this happening to me?

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Speaker 2: And also feeling not shame, but just going what have

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Speaker 2: I done to to have this happened to me? Why

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Speaker 2: have they picked me? What's going on? And they never

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Speaker 2: used my name any of that stuff. But I blocked

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Speaker 2: the number and thought, that's weird. That'll be the end

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Speaker 2: of it. Spoke to Caine the next morning saying, look,

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Speaker 2: really weird. Got this last night and I hadn't clicked

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Speaker 2: on the video because again, you feel like they might

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Speaker 2: know if you watch the content or whatever, and you

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Speaker 2: sort of I gave it to Cain and Cain had

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Speaker 2: a look and Caine said, his face is in it.

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Speaker 2: Do but it could be AI or it could be

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Speaker 2: some sort of hate thing. Have you blocked it? And

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Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I blocked it, and he's like, well,

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Speaker 2: who knows what this is? It's gone. It wasn't gone.

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Speaker 2: The person then went on to use I think in

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Speaker 2: the end it was nearly eight different modes of communication

403
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Speaker 2: to relentlessly call FaceTime. There was WhatsApp messages, and it

404
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Speaker 2: was the content was revolting. And I let that go

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Speaker 2: on for a month and a half before I saw

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Speaker 2: police help, which is the reason why I wanted to

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Speaker 2: talk about it today because I thought that you could

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Speaker 2: only be harassed or stalked if that person had been

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Speaker 2: in your presence or was threatening to come to your home.

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Speaker 2: That's not the case. And by the time I went

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Speaker 2: to speak to police, the guys now in jail, and

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Speaker 2: I wasn't the only person that they were doing it too.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why I think it relates back to

414
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Speaker 2: being in sport is that from the ripe old age

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Speaker 2: of Gosh, I think twenty four to twenty five is

416
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Speaker 2: when we started at Fox Sports and you sort of,

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Speaker 2: you know, thrust it into the on air experience. And

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Speaker 2: I also think that Twitter was a lot more rampant

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Speaker 2: back then. I've been receiving sexually explicit content from men

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Speaker 2: as as part of being in my job, and it

421
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Speaker 2: was something that was sort of laughed about in the

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Speaker 2: office because a few of us would receive the same

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Speaker 2: messages from the same bloke that we're again we're talking

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Speaker 2: really explicit images, and especially because when you first start reading,

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Speaker 2: you're probably doing the late night shift as well, so

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Speaker 2: you're reading from ten to twelve when blokes are probably

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Speaker 2: coming home and a bit drunk and they send you things,

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Speaker 2: and that was really normalized. And so by the time

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Speaker 2: this happened to me, as an adult that's got two kids,

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Speaker 2: the alarm bells that should have got off a lot earlier,

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Speaker 2: going hey, this isn't okay and I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: this sorted out was just something that I hoped would

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Speaker 2: go away. And I think the message that I want

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Speaker 2: people to take away from it is that there is

435
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 2: the police can help, and there are new laws around

436
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 2: what is actually harassment and sexual harassment because of the

437
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,199
Speaker 2: way that people use social media and use phones these days,

438
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,400
Speaker 2: that are there to protect you and it's not okay

439
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: for people to take away your sense of peace like that.

440
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 1: And I think that at its heart in a lot

441
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,200
Speaker 1: of these circumstances, but in yours in particular, is almost

442
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 1: the biggest violation a lot of the time, because then

443
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 1: you're just always, like with f your phone screen lit

444
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: up at that time, your first default was probably oh,

445
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's Kane. It was probably oh, do

446
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: I know that number?

447
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: Oh? And still now if there's no chance on God's

448
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 2: good Earth, I'm answering your number if I don't have

449
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 2: it in my phone. But the reason that I actually

450
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 2: went to the police. Was the iterations of the number

451
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 2: that I had blocked were all very similar, so I

452
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 2: could recognize the first four numbers. And I was at

453
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 2: the supermarket on my own and the FaceTime started and

454
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 2: the description of this guy, and I'm so vague on

455
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,679
Speaker 2: the details, and I think that's the defense mechanism. I

456
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: never read the police report back. I know that he's

457
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,360
Speaker 2: in jail, but I knew that he lived in Victoria,

458
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 2: but I don't want to know. I just don't want

459
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 2: to know. But he had dark features in a shaved head,

460
00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,119
Speaker 2: which is every second person. So when I was in

461
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 2: the soupermarket and I saw the FaceTime, I thought, I

462
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 2: just had this feeling like they're the here, the here,

463
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 2: And it was that idea that it could also put

464
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 2: my kids in danger that I went straight to the

465
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 2: police station. But the other thing, which was pretty the

466
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: realization that I had was that I didn't want to

467
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 2: go to the police in case the policeman was a

468
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: creep and I had to sit in a room with

469
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: a guy and watch these videos that were so explicit

470
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: with someone that I didn't know, and what position that

471
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: would put me in. I remember saying that to Kane

472
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 2: and Kane going, I just and I could see the

473
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,680
Speaker 2: empathy pouring out of him, just going, I just can't

474
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 2: believe you're in a position where you have to assume

475
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 2: that every blokes a threat or a creep unless proven otherwise.

476
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 2: But I do think that in this world of Manisphere

477
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 2: and all of this stuff. And no, I haven't watched

478
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,719
Speaker 2: the Louis Watchel.

479
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: He's not strong enough.

480
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 2: I feel like I'll get too angry. But I think

481
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 2: that there are very real ramifications for and I hate

482
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: to say it, not all men, but men feeling like

483
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 2: they can speak to women in a certain way and

484
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 2: that they have a right to communicate different imagery to women.

485
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:09,879
Speaker 2: That's become really normalized. But you know, I just kept thinking, like,

486
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: I'm glad that this widow has chosen me because I

487
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: can cope with it. Whereas if he is doing this

488
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: to my thirteen year old niece who might be getting

489
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 2: her first phone, you know, if he put one of

490
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: the digits wrong in my number and ended up getting

491
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: a teenager and this is their first experience of this

492
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: sort of content, It's just it was vile.

493
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: I flinched when you said that, because the thought you

494
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: say I'm glad that it happened to me. I'd just

495
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,719
Speaker 1: like had a physical reaction there of flinching because I

496
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 1: remember it took you a long time to tell me, yeah,

497
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: well you did it. You did it when it was

498
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: going on, it wasn't happening, and then you know. But

499
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: I've also had the same similar things, not in this

500
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 1: exact way where I'll be cause I think it is

501
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: that self preservation, it's that minimization. It's the default setting

502
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 1: that you have to fight against yourself.

503
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, one as.

504
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: A woman in general, but especially as a woman working

505
00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: in media and then a woman working in sports. Me.

506
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: I think there are all of these layers, whether or

507
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: not right or wrong. Who's at fault, who's not at fault?

508
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: We placed it upon ourselves, we don't someone else places

509
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: it upon us. I think that all of that adds

510
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: up into that hesitancy of just being like, oh, well

511
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 1: that's actually not that not that big of a deal. No,

512
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 1: And then if you share it with someone like if

513
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: you share it with me, if you share it with Kine,

514
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: then it's real. Then it is a deal. Can I

515
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: ask a question, has having kids changed how seriously you've

516
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: taken this in terms of how much of a quote

517
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: unquote threat it could be for you to take it seriously.

518
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, the immediate threat of them being in proximity. But

519
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 2: I also think I'd like to think that as I

520
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: got older, I was someone that if this stuff happened,

521
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: and especially being someone that is proud to have a

522
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: strong opinion in a strong sense of self, that I

523
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: would call it out in real time. And there have

524
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: been really recent incidences in the workplace where things happen

525
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: and I don't because I'm scared of what the ramifications

526
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 2: will be and I would sooner protect my peace than

527
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: be the one who's pushing against something that's clearly wrong.

528
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 2: And I can think of examples, and I'm I'm still

529
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: hesitant to talk about them because it's too it's too recent,

530
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 2: and I don't want their headlines that come with it.

531
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And that's the thing, because you know there

532
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: will be headlines from this conversation. I know I think

533
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: that there will be because I think because you're speaking

534
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: about something that needs to be spoken about and isn't

535
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: ever spoken about.

536
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: Well, it's also something that like it affected. This person

537
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 2: was targeting people that worked at my old network, So

538
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 2: there was a few of.

539
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: Us, which is often the case. I've had people who've

540
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: contacted me who've also contacted people within the network.

541
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: Here, And I think it was the volume at which

542
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: this person was harassing that many people that led to

543
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: the jail time, and that the police were able to

544
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 2: get a warrant and go and search where they can

545
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: find them and all of those things. But I also think,

546
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: you know, I hope that it's the only thing that

547
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: I really want to come out of this is that

548
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 2: women realizing that if someone is prolifically contacting you with

549
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: unwanted content or unwanted contact, there is actually things that

550
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 2: you can do about it. Because I thought to be

551
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 2: sexually harassed it needed to be in person, and I

552
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 2: think I'm a semi informed person, but I had no

553
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 2: idea about the sort of resources that were available to you.

554
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: And also that it can give you your power back

555
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: to sit opposite a professional who details it all and says,

556
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: thank you for coming. We're going to do our best

557
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 2: to get this guy and sort it out.

558
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: I know it's been a year. I know that you

559
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: don't let yourself look at the details.

560
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I'm for that.

561
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't look at any of the

562
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: details for things that have happened. Yeah, to me, I

563
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: don't look at that vague. Keep it vague, safeer that way,

564
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: self preservation. How do you feel about it now?

565
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: Still really uncomfortable about this chat, Still in my head going, well,

566
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: in good news, this isn't live, so I can still

567
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: pull it like I've genuinely been like, well, I genuine

568
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: was just thinking, well, I good suport, basport went for

569
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 2: a while. Well, you can just skip straight to the

570
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 2: fun because it's I don't I don't want to bring

571
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: attention to it.

572
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: This is the thing people who because we work in TV,

573
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: we work in the media, people think we love attention.

574
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: Oh no, thank you, no, thank you.

575
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: There's too much that I learned about the things that

576
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,200
Speaker 2: are available to you in this situation that I didn't

577
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 2: know that I think could be helpful to others. But

578
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: also zooming out realizing the impact of being a woman

579
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: in sport and the stuff that I've been peppered with

580
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 2: for over ten years, and how much it conditioned me

581
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: to thinking that it is okay for men to send

582
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: you vile content. Not okay, but something that is to

583
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 2: be endured as part of the payoff. For doing your

584
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 2: job that I deeply hope the next generation of young

585
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: women coming through that want to work in sport. It's

586
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: not something that they call from the very beginning in

587
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: that it's not something that they will let happen because sadly,

588
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't think sickos are going anywhere, and if anything,

589
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: I think they're probably getting more brazen. But I do

590
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: think that they're probably stronger than us or me, And

591
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 2: I also think if I want that to be the case,

592
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 2: then I at least need to be able to talk

593
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: about it. And let's be honest, this is cheaper than therapy.

594
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 2: So what do we do?

595
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Well, they I'll give you the bill after for my services,

596
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: so we'll see, we'll see. Stand by with that that

597
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: therapyune is very funny because what I was going to

598
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: say was that what I would like you to know

599
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: and what I would like our listeners to know, and

600
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: you know, male female, however you identify listeners to know,

601
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: is that you are worth it. So when this shit

602
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: is happening, as someone who has been the other end

603
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: of being like, oh no, I don't it's not big deal.

604
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: It's not a big no, but you are worth making

605
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: a note of it and telling people and sharing it

606
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 1: because it's not normal. It's not normal. Well, usually, as

607
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: everyone would know, we end our episodes with a fun fact.

608
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: But I think the fact is just everything that you've said.

609
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if we can go into some

610
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: sort of pun now. I don't know that we can. Again,

611
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: I am terrified of the idea of how indulgent that was.

612
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: Was it indulgent?

613
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: No?

614
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's your stuff. You're there, Okay, I'm the therapist, remember, Yeah,

615
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: I got to pull you up on this bullshit.

616
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: Can you be just soft love therapists, not the hard love? No,

617
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 2: thank you, thanks for being you, Thanks for having this space.

618
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: And again, yeah, I hope it helps anyone.

619
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: Okay, exhale, dear listeners, But just a quick note here

620
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: to say that if you or anyone you know is

621
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: experiencing something that's really difficult at the moment, help is

622
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: always available. Please reach out one eight hundred respect. It's

623
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: a twenty four hour hotline. You can contact them on

624
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: one eight hundred seven three seven seven three two