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Speaker 1: Some people don't want the me time so much to

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Speaker 1: recharge so that they can be better parents. They want

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Speaker 1: me time because they see their kids as an obstacle

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Speaker 1: to getting some timed themselves. It's a Happy Families podcast,

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Speaker 1: the podcast for the time poor parent.

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Speaker 2: He just wants answers Now.

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Speaker 1: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six

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Speaker 1: books about raising happy families, helping your kids to be

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Speaker 1: resilient and flourish and thrive.

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Speaker 2: I'm here with my wife and co host missus Happy Families. Kylie.

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Speaker 2: I love that you're smiling before we start.

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Speaker 1: I always feel like we're going to have a really

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Speaker 1: great conversation when you're smiling.

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Speaker 3: Well, we did something a little bit different through the weekend.

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Speaker 3: I set up your office in a different way, so

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Speaker 3: you and I actually get to smile at each other. Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well we've actually got seats to sit on, like

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Speaker 1: it's functional for the first time in about six months. Hey, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago you were doing book club.

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Speaker 1: So if you are a Happy Family's member, a couple

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Speaker 1: of times a year we go through books.

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Speaker 2: You run book club.

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Speaker 1: People participate in a sort of a webinar meeting, kind

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Speaker 1: of conversation about insights that they're picking up from the

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Speaker 1: books that you're reviewing. And you were working through my

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Speaker 1: book twenty one Days to a Happier Family. As you

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Speaker 1: worked through that book, you came across a concept called

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Speaker 1: me time versus we time, and that's what we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about today. But you had an experience that

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Speaker 1: really makes this, I guess quite salient, really pertinent.

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Speaker 3: So we had baby number two and baby number three

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Speaker 3: fourteen months apart. It was a really really tricky time

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Speaker 3: for me, and I actually spiraled downwards very very fast

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Speaker 3: after baby number three arrived, and you know, I had

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Speaker 3: to seek professional help to help me get through that.

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Speaker 3: And one of the pieces of advice that numerous professionals

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Speaker 3: told me was I needed to take more me time,

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Speaker 3: that I was feeling overwhelmed because I had these two

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Speaker 3: very you know, still very dependent children close together, and

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Speaker 3: that I really just needed to find something that I

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Speaker 3: could enjoy and take the time out, get myself out

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Speaker 3: of the house, get myself out of that environment, and

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Speaker 3: do stuff for me. And what I did, I took

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Speaker 3: them seriously and we talked about it, and you were

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Speaker 3: very supportive of me trying to you know, take time out.

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Speaker 3: But what I was finding was that each time I

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Speaker 3: would go out, it didn't matter how much fun and

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Speaker 3: how much enjoyment I had out of the home. When

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Speaker 3: I came back into the home, it was like it

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Speaker 3: had never happened, Like there was no benefit for me

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Speaker 3: having left the home. And so I thought that that

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Speaker 3: meant I wasn't going out enough. Yeah, And so I

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Speaker 3: continued to go out more and do more and do more.

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Speaker 3: And what I actually found was through that process, I

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Speaker 3: actually spiraled down further and further.

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Speaker 1: Well, you became resentful of the family because the family

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Speaker 1: was stopping you from doing the stuff that you actually enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: And it didn't work.

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Speaker 1: And the research around this topic, and this is why

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Speaker 1: we decided to talk about it right because we're coming

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Speaker 1: up to Christmas and a lot of people saying, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I need to have some R and R, I need

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Speaker 1: to get some me time. But I really want to

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Speaker 1: emphasize the importance not of me time, but of we time.

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Speaker 1: And this is a really tricky thing to talk about

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Speaker 1: because we actually do need me time, but our mindset

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Speaker 1: around the me time is actually the bigger issue than

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Speaker 1: the me time itself.

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Speaker 3: So you've said me time is important. Is it dependent

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Speaker 3: on what we're actually doing in that me time? Like,

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Speaker 3: is there positives too having me time?

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Speaker 1: There are positives to having me time. The idea behind

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Speaker 1: me time is that you're supposed to recuperate, regenerate, and

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Speaker 1: use that time to reassess where you're up to so

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Speaker 1: that you can come back to the family and be intentional.

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Speaker 1: But what we're you know, the word recreation me time

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Speaker 1: is actually about recreation, right, but we don't really look

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Speaker 1: at what the root of the word recreation means. Literally,

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Speaker 1: if you break it up, it's to recreate yourself. You know,

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Speaker 1: recreate is recreate. So we need to be using our

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Speaker 1: me time in a way that recreates us. That is,

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Speaker 1: it reinvigorates us, that re inspires us. The word inspire

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Speaker 1: means to breathe life into I love that. So if

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Speaker 1: I want to have some me time, some time out

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Speaker 1: so that I can get inspired to come back to

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Speaker 1: my family, that is, I want to have life breathed

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Speaker 1: back into me in that me time, What unfortunately happens.

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Speaker 1: And let me give an example of two different Back

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Speaker 1: in the olden days, I used to talk with people

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Speaker 1: one on one. We obviously don't have the capacity to

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Speaker 1: do that like I used to. But I remember at

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Speaker 1: one point I had two different mums that were coming

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Speaker 1: to me, and both of them were saying, I need

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Speaker 1: more me time. I'm falling apart. One was a mum

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Speaker 1: of I think she had five kids, it might have

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Speaker 1: been six. It was a long time ago, forgive me

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Speaker 1: if I'm a bit scratchy on the details. And she

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Speaker 1: insisted that she needed more me time. My suggestion was,

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Speaker 1: I don't think you need more me time. I think

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Speaker 1: you actually need more we time that is really high quality,

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Speaker 1: intentional time with your family, rather than try to get

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Speaker 1: away from them.

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Speaker 3: That sounds like a lot of hard work. I'm already feeling,

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Speaker 3: i know, like overwhelmed with my life, and now you're

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Speaker 3: telling me that I've actually got to create this intentional

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Speaker 3: space where I'm spending more time with the people who

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Speaker 3: are overwhelming me.

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Speaker 1: And that's what she said to me, and I totally

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Speaker 1: get it, Like I have a lot of empathy for that,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes I'm like, I don't want to be around

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Speaker 1: these people. I know that I love them, I know

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Speaker 1: that I was involved in the creation of them, but

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Speaker 1: I just need some space from them. But the other

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Speaker 1: mom she had I think she just had twins and

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Speaker 1: she had five children. I remember this one had five

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Speaker 1: children and she was exhausted. I think she had five

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Speaker 1: under five. From me, Wow, And when I said to her,

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Speaker 1: how can you be intentional and instead of focusing on

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Speaker 1: me time, how can you actually be intentionally in your

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Speaker 1: wee time? How can you really focus on connecting with

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Speaker 1: your children and seeing them and engaging with them and

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Speaker 1: helping them to feel your love and the way.

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Speaker 2: You value them.

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Speaker 1: And well, one mum, the first mom said nah, no,

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Speaker 1: no, no no, I'm going to the movies. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go to the beach, I'm going to hang out with friends.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to live my life. The other mom said,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take this seriously. I'm and go for

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Speaker 1: we time rather than me time. The difference after I

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Speaker 1: think it was maybe two or three months down the track,

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Speaker 1: as I sort of followed these mums and tried to

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Speaker 1: help them and guide them, we had the first mum

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Speaker 1: who just became increasingly embittered towards her family, and a

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Speaker 1: little while down the track, I found out that things

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Speaker 1: had not gone well in her family at all. Her

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Speaker 1: relationship had broken up the family had really broken down,

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Speaker 1: whereas the other mum had really engaged deeply with her family,

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Speaker 1: had a lot more we time. Now she'd also drawn

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Speaker 1: on support from a husband and extended family members, but

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Speaker 1: she really focused on we time, spending that one on

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Speaker 1: one time and that high quality time with the kids,

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Speaker 1: and my goodness, that made a difference. Her family became

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Speaker 1: stronger and she got over the stress and the drama.

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Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting for a minute that was easy, but

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Speaker 1: the outcomes in the long term was substantially different.

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Speaker 3: So I guess my next question for you then is

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Speaker 3: how do I balance this, because I think that it

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Speaker 3: is really important for us, whether you're a mom or

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Speaker 3: a dad. I mean, dads go off to work and

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Speaker 3: in lots of cases have you know, kind of really

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Speaker 3: full on workdays and they come home and then they've

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Speaker 3: got full on family time because they come home at

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Speaker 3: witching hour for most families. So as a mum who

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Speaker 3: already struggles with feeling guilty about doing things for herself, yeah,

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Speaker 3: how do I, you know, kind of navigate this situation

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Speaker 3: where I'm feeling really pressured or I'm feeling overwhelmed by

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Speaker 3: everything and I feel like I need some time out.

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Speaker 3: And now I'm telling you, you're telling me that no,

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Speaker 3: you don't need time out, you need this.

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Speaker 2: So I'm in with everyone. Yeah, let's answer that in

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Speaker 2: just a second. It's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 3: a happy family does. Have just happened details at happy

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Speaker 3: families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers now. And the big

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Speaker 1: question is me time versus we time? What if I'm stressed,

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Speaker 1: what if I've got so much going on my plate. Now,

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Speaker 1: here's this parenting expert saying no, no, no, don't have me time,

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Speaker 1: have we time. As you were asking that question a

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Speaker 1: moment ago, I was thinking of the single mums who

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Speaker 1: were like, oh no, no, I really really need some

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Speaker 1: me time. Once again, I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be me time. I love getting on my bike and

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Speaker 1: going for a ride. That is me time, or jumping

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Speaker 1: in the pool and having a swim that is me time,

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Speaker 1: or going for a that sort of stuff is important.

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Speaker 1: But if we're using it as an escape, if we're

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Speaker 1: using it and looking for more and more excuses to

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Speaker 1: be away from our family. It's not going to help,

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Speaker 1: it's going to make it worse.

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Speaker 3: And what I found through that experience that I shed

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Speaker 3: at the beginning was that was exactly where I was left.

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Speaker 3: I was left feeling more disconnected from the people that

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Speaker 3: I loved the most than ever before. I felt more alone,

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Speaker 3: I felt more isolated within my relationships from you.

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Speaker 2: I remember our children rough in.

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Speaker 3: Spite of the fact that the professionals were telling me,

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Speaker 3: I just needed more me time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So some people don't want the me time so much

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Speaker 1: to recharge so that they can be better parents. They

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Speaker 1: want me time because they see their kids as an

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Speaker 1: obstacle to getting some time of themselves to do the

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Speaker 1: stuff that they want to do. Yeah, and that at

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Speaker 1: its core, I don't mean to put labels on this.

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Speaker 1: This actually sounds more blunt than I mean it too.

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Speaker 1: But at its core, we've got a self oriented focus.

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Speaker 1: You know, with that kind of me time you're getting

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Speaker 1: in my way, you're stopping me living my life.

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Speaker 2: I just want to be me and do my thing.

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Speaker 1: And then no matter how much me time you get,

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Speaker 1: you can never get enough, and the kids are always

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Speaker 1: going to be stopping you, Whereas when you have the

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Speaker 1: me time that says I love you, kids, and I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be better if I can go away, recharge,

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Speaker 1: have my run, have my walk, have my swim, have

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Speaker 1: my ride, have my whatever, my facial and then I'm

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Speaker 1: going to come back and I know that I'll be

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Speaker 1: better because I've had that time out and when I

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Speaker 1: come back, I want to be better. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use this time to be intentionally focused on being better.

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Speaker 1: That's the kind of me time that actually makes the difference.

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Speaker 3: So do you think this plays out differently for mums

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Speaker 3: versus dads?

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Speaker 1: What I would say now, I'm going to be stereotypical

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Speaker 1: here because I know that people are in all sorts

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Speaker 1: of different circumstances. But let's just say you've got a

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Speaker 1: full time dad, you know, involved in full time employment,

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Speaker 1: and then you've got a mum who is either part

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Speaker 1: time employed or at home.

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Speaker 2: Again. I know that's not everybody.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going with the stereotype because of time and

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Speaker 1: simplicity when whatever parent it is. But let's say dad

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Speaker 1: gets to go off to work. I know that there's stress,

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Speaker 1: there's drama, there's pressure, there's all sorts of things, but

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Speaker 1: it's a different kind of pressure. There's no cognitive load

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Speaker 1: ongoingly in terms of the way the family functions, and

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Speaker 1: mums don't really kind of get away from that the

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Speaker 1: way dads do. There's plenty of research that shows that

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Speaker 1: mums are carrying the cognitive load, not the dad's when

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Speaker 1: it comes to the family function.

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Speaker 2: So I reckon that it is different for mums and.

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Speaker 1: Dads purely because of the way we've divided labor in

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Speaker 1: our society. I'm not saying that it's biological. I don't

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Speaker 1: think because inherent it shouldn't be that way. I just

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Speaker 1: think in the for the most part, it often can be.

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Speaker 1: If we can create supportive environments for mums, if dads

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Speaker 1: can be more respectful and encouraging of mums to have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of time out so that they can

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Speaker 1: come back and be awesome in the family, I think

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Speaker 1: that's probably the best way forward. But I love this

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Speaker 1: quote from Elizabeth Dunn that I've I've written in Twenty

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Speaker 1: one Days to a Happier Family. It's about this research

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Speaker 1: that she's done on the topic. What she found was

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Speaker 1: this investing financial and emotional resources in others is associated

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Speaker 1: with greater happiness than investing in oneself, and then she

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Speaker 1: says this in short, when it comes to parental well being,

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Speaker 1: you reap what you sew. And I think the really

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Speaker 1: important message in this conversation is that we're playing a

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Speaker 1: long game and that the kids might be driving you

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Speaker 1: crazy right now. The kids might be so demanding and

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Speaker 1: you might feel like you just need that me time

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Speaker 1: so very much. But when you have me time at

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Speaker 1: the expense of we time, the relationship ultimately may suffer

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Speaker 1: if we don't get the balance right. And in ten

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Speaker 1: or fifteen years time, there's been that relationship rupture because

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Speaker 1: we haven't had the time in the relationship. We need

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Speaker 1: to make our relationship strong, and we time is how

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Speaker 1: we do that.

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Speaker 3: Well. A couple of months ago, you asked me what

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Speaker 3: was my perfect day? I think it was my very

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Speaker 3: first podcast I did with you asked me what my

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Speaker 3: perfect day looked like.

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Speaker 2: I remember that and.

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Speaker 3: I told you that it was a walk along the

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Speaker 3: beach And you asked me if the kids were involved,

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Speaker 3: and I said, yes, I'm looking forward to this Saturday

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Speaker 3: having that magic moment with our kids on the beach.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. I love a bit of weed time. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We hope

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Speaker 1: that it's been helpful, especially this one as we move

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Speaker 1: towards the Christmas holidays and you have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of we time with the ones

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Speaker 1: that you love the very most. We love getting your

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Speaker 1: feedback on the podcasts. You can email us podcasts at

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Speaker 1: Happy Families dot com dot or you can leave us

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Speaker 1: a rating and review at Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Love getting them come through. We've actually had I'm going

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Speaker 2: to highlight too, Kylie, that we've had this week.

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Speaker 1: The first one came from Lena Van Ray five star

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Speaker 1: my favorite parenting podcast Kylie.

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Speaker 3: And Justin Ship personal stories that really help parents of

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Speaker 3: all age kids. I must listen for all parents wanting

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Speaker 3: a happier family.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Lena, and I love this one. This

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Speaker 1: one came through from Sona B. Five stars, positive and

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Speaker 1: uplifting every time.

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Speaker 2: This is what Sona B said. It's made my day.

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Speaker 1: I'm a recent listener thanks to my wife who subscribed

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Speaker 1: to the membership for the webinars and so on. OMG,

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Speaker 1: this is so good because I love podcasts and it's

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Speaker 1: relatable and short and sweet. I don't dread a long episode.

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Speaker 1: Mister and missus, Happy Families are so good together, better

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Speaker 1: than any radio station I've ever listened to. Great mix

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Speaker 1: of experience in broadcasting and psychology. You can feel the

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Speaker 1: team vibe with those two. Love these guys.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, your efforts are impacting the nation. Good on you.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 3: That's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Really appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: If you are enjoying the podcast as a Christmas gift

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Speaker 1: to us, if we can be so bold, can we

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Speaker 1: ask you to jump onto Apple podcast and leave us

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Speaker 1: a rating and review. Just like sona B. Those five

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Speaker 1: star ratings and reviews help other people to find the

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Speaker 1: podcast and make their families happier. We really appreciate the

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Speaker 1: work from Justin rule On, our producer from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: It's been a great.

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Speaker 1: Year Justin, and we appreciate all the work that you've done.

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Speaker 1: And our executive producer is Craig Bruce. If you'd like

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Speaker 1: more information about how we can help your family flourish,

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Speaker 1: just like sona B, jump onto Happy Families dot com

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Speaker 1: dot a.

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Speaker 2: You check out the membership, become a Premium member, and

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Speaker 2: you get access to.

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Speaker 1: Loads of resources to help your family be happier and

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Speaker 1: to make your wee time that much more enjoyable. You

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Speaker 1: can also follow us at Facebook at doctor Justin Coulson's

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Speaker 1: Happy Families