1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: the seventh of February. I'm emma, I'm billy. US President 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 2: Donald Trump has announced plans for an American takeover in 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: the Gaza Strip. 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 3: Everybody I've spoken to loves the idea of the United 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 3: States owning that piece of land, developing and creating thousands 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,239 Speaker 3: of jobs in a really magnificent area that nobody can 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 3: look because all they see is death and destruction and rubble. 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 2: The proposal, which would move around two million Palestinians to 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 2: other countries, has drawn criticism from world leaders and the 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 2: United Nations, who've denounced it as unlawful. Today we'll unpack 14 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: what Trump said, what the international reaction has been like, 15 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: and whether or not his plan could or will act 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: actually happen. 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: So m like you said, today, we're talking about the 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: joint press conference held in Washington on Wednesday, our time, 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: between US President Donald Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netnahoo. 20 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: So Trump made several announcements in that press conference, but 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: the one that is dominating global headlines is about this 22 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: proposed US takeover in Gaza. What exactly did the president say? 23 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: So, as you said, Billy, Trump spoke alongside net and Yahoo, 24 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: and that came after a White House meeting between the 25 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: two leaders. And it was at that press conference that 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: followed those talks that the US President put forward his 27 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: idea to place Gaza under the control of American occupation. 28 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: Trump described the Gaza Strip as a decade's old quote 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: symbol of death and destruction. He called Palestinians who lived 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: there very unlucky and described the strip as a very 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: unlucky place. And this is how he sort of introduced 32 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 2: this idea that Gaza be rebuilt and be occupied by 33 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 2: the US. Here's a bit of what he said. 34 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 4: We should go to other countries of interest with humanitarian 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 4: hearts and build various domains that will ultimately be occupied 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 4: by the one point eight million Palestinians living in Gaza. 37 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: This could be paid for by neighboring countries of great wealth. 38 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 4: It could be in numerous sites, or it could be 39 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 4: one large site, but the people will be able to 40 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: live in comfort and peace. 41 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: Trump also said the only reason the Palestinians want to 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: go back to Gaza in his words is they have 43 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: no alternative. It's right now a demolition site. The US 44 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: President didn't rule out sending American soldiers to Gaza as 45 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: part of this planned takeover. He said, we'll do what 46 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: is necessary. If it's necessary, we'll do that. 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack here. I want to start 48 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: with the response to these comments. What has the international 49 00:02:58,040 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: community said. 50 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: There is a long list of countries who came out 51 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: in opposition of this plan. So that includes Germany, France, Spain, 52 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: the UK, Ireland, Brazil, China, Russia, Turkey. We did hear 53 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: from the Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi on Wednesday. He 54 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 2: reiterated the government's support for a two state solution where 55 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: Palestinian and Israeli people can live in peace. 56 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 5: Our position remains the same. We want to see as 57 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 5: have Australian government for a long period of time. We 58 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 5: have had a long standing bipartisan position for a two 59 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 5: state solution. 60 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: And Trump implied that neighboring countries would have a role 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: to play in this proposal. With plans for other Middle 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 1: Eastern nations to accept Palestinian refugees, it's one thing for 63 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: him to announce that and it's a whole other thing 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: for those countries to accept that. What have the neighboring 65 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: country said. 66 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 67 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: So throughout the Middle East we saw this week a 68 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 2: resounding criticism and opposition this idea. Palestinian officials have called 69 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: Trump's comments ridiculous and absurd. President Mahmoud Abbas strongly rejected 70 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: the idea, which he said would be a major breach 71 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: of international law. Riad Mansur, he's the leader of the 72 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: Palestinian delegation to the United Nations, and he said, the 73 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: Palestinian people want to rebuild Gaza because it's where they belong. 74 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 2: Egypt has emphasized the importance of Palestinians remaining in the 75 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: territory as they work to rebuild in Gaza and look 76 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,359 Speaker 2: to the future. Saudi Arabia's Foreign ministry responded and it 77 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 2: said it rejects any attempts to displace Palestinians, describing their 78 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: stance as non negotiable. We also heard from Jordan. Jordan 79 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: has rejected quote any attempts to annex land and displace 80 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 2: the Palestinians. Now, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who we 81 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: did see standing next to Trump during that announcement, He 82 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 2: said that he thinks the US takeover in Gaza is 83 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: something that could change history, and he described Trump as 84 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: the greatest friend Israel has ever had in the White House. 85 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: I guess the key question on everyone's mind is, you know, 86 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: with the context of Palestinian officials being against this and 87 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: also neighboring countries being against this, is this something that 88 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:16,239 Speaker 1: could actually happen. 89 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: So I guess, in terms of answering the question of 90 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: whether or not this could happen, we have to look 91 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 2: at whether or not it's legal. And the UN's Secretary General, 92 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: Antonio Guteris, has been somewhat vague in his language specifically 93 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: to do with Trump's comments, but during an address on 94 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,119 Speaker 2: the rights of Palestinian people following Trump's remarks, he said, 95 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: in the search for solutions, we must not make the 96 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: problem worse. It is vital to stay true to the 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: bedrock of international law. It is essential to avoid any 98 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 2: form of ethnic cleansing. 99 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: Do you want to explain what that term ethnic cleansing 100 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 1: actually means? 101 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 4: Yes? 102 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 2: So, a commission of UN experts describes ethnic cleansing as 103 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: a quote purposeful pol designed by one ethnic or religious 104 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: group to remove by violent and terror inspiring means the 105 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain 106 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: geographic areas. Now, a spokesperson for the UN Secretary General, 107 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: Antoniogo Terras was directly asked by a reporter this week 108 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: at a press conference, does the Secretary General believe the 109 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: President Trump's plan for the US to take over Gaza 110 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: is ethnic cleansing, And the spokesperson said, any forced displacement 111 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: of people is tantamount to ethnic cleansing. Now, the act 112 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: of forcibly moving civilians is forbidden under the Geneva Conventions, 113 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: and that's the part of international humanitarian law that focuses 114 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: on civilian treatment during war. But when we're talking separately 115 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: about this idea of ethnic cleansing, it's not yet been 116 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: recognized as an independent crime under international law. That being said, though, 117 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: the actions that are involved in ethnic cleansing are unlawful, 118 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 2: so for example, murder, torture, rape, imprisonment, destruction of property, 119 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: displacement and deportation, attacks on civilian areas, etc. These practices can, 120 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: according to the UN, constitute crimes against humanity and can 121 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: be assimilated to specific war crimes. Furthermore, the UN says 122 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: such acts are related to genocide, which is a crime 123 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: under international law. 124 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: Okay, So to recap, Trump hasn't necessarily broken any international 125 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 1: laws by tabling this plan and his vision for Gaza. 126 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: But if his plan became a reality and the US 127 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: did take over there, it could lead to war crimes 128 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: and breaches of international law exactly. 129 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: So for now, this is just talk, really, but it's 130 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: hard to see how the plan could avoid breaching the 131 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: Geneva Conventions at the very least, which outlaw forcibly removing 132 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: civilians from a specific area. 133 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: And in the hours since Trump's announcement, what has the 134 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: White House said, because I've seen some reporting that they've 135 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: possibly backtracked his comments slightly. 136 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 2: Yes, so we heard from the U S Secretary of State, 137 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: Marco Rubio, who attempted to play down the remarks or 138 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: seek to clarify some of the language that we heard 139 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 2: from Trump. So Rubio said, the President has made it 140 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: clear that the people of Gaza need to be temporarily relocated, 141 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 2: so emphasizing that language that it's a temporary idea of 142 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: relocation rather than a permanent one. During a White House briefing, 143 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt also clarified that point about temporary relocation, 144 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,079 Speaker 2: and that language shift might specifically tie back to those 145 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: kind of legal flags that we discussed about the moving 146 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 2: of civilians. She said, Trump's quote historic proposal to take 147 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,199 Speaker 2: over Gaza underscores his commitment to quote eliminate her Musk 148 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 2: and secure lasting peace for the region. Trump has received 149 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: a lot of criticism from lawmakers within the US, even 150 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: in his own party, and around the world, but the 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 2: White House Press Secretary defended the President and said insanity 152 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: is doing the same thing over and over again and 153 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: expecting different results. She said, President Trump is an outside 154 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: of the box thinker and a visionary leader who solves 155 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 2: problems that many others, especially in this city, claim are unsolvable. Ultimately, though, 156 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: Billy Trump would need the consent of Palestine and the 157 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: Palestinian people to legally make this plan a reality. And 158 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: I think it's important to talk about this sort of 159 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: common theme that has emerged from world leaders over the 160 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 2: last couple of days, including from our very own Prime 161 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 2: Minister Anton Albanesi, about judging US President Trump on his 162 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: actions rather than his words. And I think that retric 163 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: is something that will probably come up again over the 164 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,839 Speaker 2: next few months and the next few years, Albanezi said, 165 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 2: I'm not going to, as Australia's Prime Minister, give a 166 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: daily commentary on statements by the US president. My job 167 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: is to support Australia's position. So from here, Billy, I 168 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: guess we will keep an eye out and see what 169 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: comes next. 170 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: That comment about judging US President Trump on his actions 171 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: rather than his words, I've seen a lot of criticism 172 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: about the media that the media is focusing too much 173 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: on what he says rather than what he does. And 174 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: it's a conversation we're having as a newsroom that, you know, 175 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: when his comments are such a departure from what the 176 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: US has been saying for you know, the last at 177 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: least four years, if not the last decades, is that 178 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: not worth reporting on? But if it actually hasn't happened yet, 179 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, there's this whole conversation about how do we 180 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: report on it. But m I think you've done an 181 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: excellent job of breaking it down for us. Thank you 182 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: so much, Thank you, Billy, and thank you so much 183 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: for listening to this episode of The Daily OS. We'll 184 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,839 Speaker 1: be back again with your afternoon headlines, but until then, 185 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: have a great day. My name is Lily Madden and 186 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm a proud Arunda Banjelung Kalkadin woman from Gadighl country. 187 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 5: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 188 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,719 Speaker 5: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 189 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 5: all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay 190 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 5: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 191 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 5: past and present.