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Speaker 1: It is being reported the involvement of a Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: politician at a global conference for the tobacco and nicotine

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Speaker 1: industry has been labeled as shameful by the head of

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Speaker 1: Australia's peak body for doctors. Now the ABC is reporting

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Speaker 1: that NT independent MLA Kesi Epiric attended the Global Tobacco

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Speaker 1: and Nicotine Forum in South Korea in September, speaking on

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Speaker 1: a panel about industry regulation. Kezi Epiric joins me on

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Speaker 1: the line right now, Good morning to Eukezia.

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Speaker 2: Oh, good morning Katie. And I don't know who that

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Speaker 2: AMA fellow is, but you know, at this conference in

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Speaker 2: Soul that I tended because I was invited to by

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Speaker 2: the organizers, there were quite a few medical doctors there

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Speaker 2: giving their contribution in regards to harm from cigarettes and vaping, harmonization,

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Speaker 2: what word, what hasn't worked. There was an Australian doctor

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Speaker 2: from down Datoya who attended, who I met, who I

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Speaker 2: found very interesting in how she's going about trying to

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Speaker 2: get people off smoking. And there was also regulators. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't exclusively just all tobacco. We kind of companies and people.

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Speaker 2: So really, unless you know all the facts before you.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's probably best not to pass judgment or

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Speaker 2: past comment the way that he has tess.

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Speaker 3: Why did you go?

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Speaker 1: Because I guess there's going to be people listening this

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Speaker 1: morning thinking, well, hang on a second, why on earth

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Speaker 1: is our independent member for Goid gone along to a

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Speaker 1: tobacco conference.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, I was a member of the

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Speaker 2: select committee that the Northern Church of Parliament set up

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Speaker 2: to look into vaping and how prevalent it was in

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Speaker 2: the territory where it was, what measures could we put

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Speaker 2: in place, understand how far widespread the problem is, like

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Speaker 2: in our schools and our abishal communities, in our normal

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Speaker 2: urban communities. And also to learn I mean what I

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Speaker 2: did find out, Kaye, if just listening to some of

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Speaker 2: the other speakers is Australia is leading. Australia leads the

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Speaker 2: way when it comes to harmonimization and reform in regards

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Speaker 2: to dropping the smoking levels across our country, introducing measures

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Speaker 2: to stop the sale and importation of you know, the

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Speaker 2: colorful lollybates as I call them, and where they think

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Speaker 2: it's going. And also to try and get a bit

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Speaker 2: of an understanding from my own perspective as to how

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Speaker 2: these industries actually think. I mean, forget the money, that's

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Speaker 2: a given. You know, they're in the business to make money.

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Speaker 2: They're commercial operators. We know the harm that the cigarettes

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Speaker 2: creates to anyone across the globe. But to find out

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Speaker 2: what other countries are doing and how successful or not

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Speaker 2: successful they've been, it even just you know, enlightened me

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Speaker 2: as to how I could contribute back to in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory. Even when the government starts to bring a

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Speaker 2: new legislation about baby which they have to do, the

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Speaker 2: fearful government Gokatie, some people.

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Speaker 1: Will be questioning whether it was appropriate for you to attend.

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Speaker 1: Who paid for your attendance.

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Speaker 2: The conference organizers and so I.

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Speaker 1: Guess then people will be questioning why are you allowed,

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Speaker 1: you know, the organizers of a major tobacco industry to

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Speaker 1: pay for you to go.

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Speaker 2: Well, they wanted to hear my views and the views

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Speaker 2: from the Northern Turty and also to get a little

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Speaker 2: bit of insight into Australia. There was probably maybe a

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Speaker 2: handful of people from Australia there. As I mentioned doctor

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Speaker 2: Fiondo Patten, who was a past member of the Lecture

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Speaker 2: Council in Victoria was one of the guest speakers talking

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Speaker 2: about you know, reform and you know that state and

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Speaker 2: her views about it. So it was an opportunity that

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Speaker 2: I wanted to take up. So I took it up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can you still independently sort of comment on

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Speaker 1: things like vaping and the misuse of all the you know,

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Speaker 1: the the impacts I guess of vaping and tobacco if

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Speaker 1: if you know, if these major companies then have paid

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Speaker 1: for you to go to a conference, can you still

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Speaker 1: be independent in this space?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I can. I've been independent for about last eight

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Speaker 2: or ten years. I can take views on board. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've I've recorded on my register of interest in regards

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Speaker 2: to receiving the getuity and the gifts. So there's nothing

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Speaker 2: I'm hiding. The organizers paid for my trip and I contributed,

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Speaker 2: and I took a lot away from it, and I

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Speaker 2: want to use that information knowledge to further understand how

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Speaker 2: we can bring about more change, both legislation, regulation, but

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Speaker 2: also by community education.

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Speaker 1: So Kezia, by the sounds of things, you don't regret attending, No,

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Speaker 1: I don't not at all, even though you've got the

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Speaker 1: likes of the AMA coming out now saying that it

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Speaker 1: was shameful.

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Speaker 2: You Oh, well, it's been entitled to their view even

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Speaker 2: if they are wrong. But they're still entitled to their view.

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Speaker 2: So you know, as I said to someone this laying,

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Speaker 2: I believe there's some more important things to worry about

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Speaker 2: in our bloody community than me as an independent in

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Speaker 2: a small jurisdiction attending a conference in Korea in regards

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Speaker 2: to smoking and babing and the way forward, whether it

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Speaker 2: be this way or that way. Well, we've just heard

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Speaker 2: what's happening in our community and I said that should

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Speaker 2: be our priority, not be long me independent member for Goid.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, there is.

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Speaker 1: A lot that I actually do want to talk to

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Speaker 1: you about this morning, including the fact that we now

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Speaker 1: know that two territory m Malais yourself included, have renewed

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Speaker 1: calls for an independent inquiry into the fail prosecution of

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Speaker 1: Coline Gwyn after the former children's commissioner was reportedly forced

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Speaker 1: to sell her house and leave the Northern Territory. Kezia,

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Speaker 1: Why have you renewed these calls over the weekends, Katie?

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Speaker 2: There is something about this case that is just not right. Like,

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Speaker 2: as I've said before, it was basically in my mind

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Speaker 2: and my view a human resource matter. This person was

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Speaker 2: appointed following interviews. This person you got the job, happened

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Speaker 2: to be friends with the main boss of the organization.

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Speaker 2: And I know from public commentary that Colin Gwin sought

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Speaker 2: advice from other government agencies relevant to this matter. Now,

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Speaker 2: the police pursued her and prosecutions pursued her to the

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Speaker 2: extent that I have never seen before in the territory

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Speaker 2: in regards to this kind of matter. Now, even when

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Speaker 2: her lawyers, now she had good quality lawyers, not just

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Speaker 2: some law school, she had listeners embarrasses, and they told

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Speaker 2: prosecutions that there had been no crime committed. They had evidence.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure I don't I'm not privy to it, but

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Speaker 2: they told the prosecutions and police there was no crime,

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Speaker 2: and yet the police and prosecutions still went for hurt. Now,

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Speaker 2: the question has to be asked why, and that's we're

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Speaker 2: not going to find out. Police, of course won't tell us,

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Speaker 2: prosecutions won't tell us. But clearly prosecutions cocked up because

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Speaker 2: at the end of the trial, which only just started,

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Speaker 2: the judge had to sort of stand down the jury

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Speaker 2: and that was the end of that.

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Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham wrote about this on the weekend and he

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Speaker 1: said that in due the former Labor Party President Charlie Phillips,

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Speaker 1: a former senior advisor to three Chief Ministers, wrote to

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Speaker 1: the Attorney General, Chancey Paike and the Police Minister Kate Warden,

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Speaker 1: urging them to review issues with the Northern Territory Criminal

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Speaker 1: Code raised by Justice John Burns during Miss Gwinn's trial. Now,

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Speaker 1: he wrote, Justice Burns decision in the Gwinn case give

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Speaker 1: rise to a number of matters, including gross breach of duty,

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Speaker 1: wasting huge amounts of public money and pursuing a prosecution

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Speaker 1: on alleged breaches of the Criminal Code which had no

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Speaker 1: reasonable prospect of success. These serious failures involved both the

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Speaker 1: DPP and police, he wrote. Now, this was all part

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Speaker 1: of a column that Matt Cunningham had written that also,

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Speaker 1: you know that also touched on the fact that that

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Speaker 1: Georgie Dickinson from Channel nine was in a very similar

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Speaker 1: or not as similar, a very serious, i should say

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Speaker 1: situation where again you know that that was that was

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Speaker 1: thrown out or she certainly you know there was flaws

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Speaker 1: to what had gone on.

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Speaker 3: It collapsed Kezia what well, you know what is this show.

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Speaker 2: What needs to happen, Well, we need to have an inquiry,

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Speaker 2: I believe of some serious level to get to the

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Speaker 2: heart of why this is happening. Why we got prosecutions

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Speaker 2: and police people pursuing actions that are doomed to fail,

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Speaker 2: and along the way crucifying people, their reputations, their family standing,

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Speaker 2: you know, and financially you know, we're that you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't believe it going to cost two hundred thousand.

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Speaker 2: Let's be honest. You know, this one I's in nearly

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Speaker 2: three or four years, using the state, barrasses, that vice,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. Please, you know, even trolling through all the

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Speaker 2: phone records and for god, take the bank reports, Like

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Speaker 2: why the hell did they need to go into Collin

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Speaker 2: Gwin's bank records. No one can answer that question, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's just it's just ridiculous. So we need to find

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Speaker 2: out because while this, while this moten sench Lingers, then

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Speaker 2: I don't believe we're going to move forward with a

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Speaker 2: police force and prosecutions that people can have utmost confidence in.

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Speaker 2: It really has tarnished them. Between Colin Gwin's case prior

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Speaker 2: to that, Zach Rolf's case, Like you said, Georgie Dickinson's case.

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Speaker 2: What is going on in prosecutions and the relationship to

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Speaker 2: anti police and why did they go for this woman

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Speaker 2: with such vigor that it should send a larm bells

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Speaker 2: ringing all around the countryside.

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Speaker 1: Kizia, Just a couple of very quick things before I

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Speaker 1: let you go this morning. I do want to ask

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Speaker 1: the word on the street is there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a cabinet reshuffled this morning?

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Speaker 3: Who are you tippings out? And who do you think?

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Speaker 2: Katie? I'm not sure whether the Chief Minister would bring

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Speaker 2: a new person in. I mean, sure, good experience for

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Speaker 2: that person if that was to happen. But if they're

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Speaker 2: bringing a new person in, does that mean someone has

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Speaker 2: to go out or they're adding another minister to the stable?

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Speaker 2: I think that if I was the Chief Minister, it's

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Speaker 2: clearly or not. I think the need. I think there's

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Speaker 2: going to be some focus on police and children and

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Speaker 2: families and that whole area because that's clearly where we

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Speaker 2: have our most serious issues and problems in our society

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Speaker 2: at the moment. So whether police portfolio moves to another

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Speaker 2: person or children's families does or they say the same

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Speaker 2: and something else happens in regards housing and you know

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Speaker 2: issues do with abigal business in the bulls at local communities.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure, Katie, but it's not it's distabilizing for government.

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Speaker 2: And when government's distabilized, nothing happens on the streets. You know,

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Speaker 2: the department sort of you know, take a step back

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Speaker 2: right at the time when we want government agencies to

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Speaker 2: be wor efficiently effectively, you know, living the programs they've

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Speaker 2: got to demis do you.

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Speaker 1: Reckon it could have like an adverse effect to what

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Speaker 1: they're aiming to do because you know, presumably they're aiming

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Speaker 1: to do it, or they're doing it to try and

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Speaker 1: sort of reinvigorate them ten months out or however many

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Speaker 1: months it is from the next Northern Territory election.

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Speaker 3: But you reckon it could actually have the opposite impact.

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Speaker 2: Potentially can because if you get a new minister to

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Speaker 2: a reasonably seenior department, whether it be health or what

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Speaker 2: police is clearly seeing, you know, you've got to start again.

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Speaker 2: You've got a brief the minister and has got to

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Speaker 2: get across the portfolio. We've only got one more week

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Speaker 2: of sitting towards the end of this year. Then you

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Speaker 2: go straight into budget pretty much in the first four

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Speaker 2: or five months of next year, you know, and it's

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Speaker 2: just like scramble scrambled to catch up. So I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure the wisdom behind the reshuffle, but hey, I guess

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Speaker 2: we'll just wait and see what we behind.

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Speaker 1: We will certainly wait and see Kezier another one before

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Speaker 1: I let you go. We're expecting a report on four

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Speaker 1: Corners this evening, focusing on private security in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 3: What are you say thoughts on these?

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Speaker 1: I mean, the fact is we need private security right

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Speaker 1: now because it seems they don't have enough police.

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Speaker 2: Well that's basically it. They're taking up the slack. You know.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure if we had, you know, the number of

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Speaker 2: police that I understand we need, then we probably wouldn't

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Speaker 2: need these security films. They could do, you know, what

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Speaker 2: other security films do around the countryside, and that's you know,

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Speaker 2: night patrols, gay patrols, whatever, assists with unwildy behavior. But

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Speaker 2: you know, the fact that they're at the level that

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Speaker 2: they're at, I think he's very concerning because you know,

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Speaker 2: they're becoming quasi police, and I know I personally don't

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Speaker 2: feel comfortable with that I'd rather the police be left

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Speaker 2: with police business and they be the ones with the

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Speaker 2: authority to deal with problems in our community. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Maybe this is maybe this is part

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Speaker 2: of the trigger for the for the cabinet reshuffle because

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Speaker 2: this program clearly would have been in the making for

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Speaker 2: a few weeks and they've probably interviewed Minister this that've

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Speaker 2: allowed themselves to interview. So I guess we'll wait and

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Speaker 2: see what the story says. Yeah, it says more importantly.

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Speaker 1: Well, CAESOPUIC always appreciate your time. Thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for speaking with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: No, it's Katie, thank you.