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Speaker 1: With Christmas just around the corner, many of us are

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Speaker 1: getting cracking on our Christmas shopping and the owner of

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Speaker 1: Darwin's largest shopping center, Casarina Square, and also the CEO

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Speaker 1: of Sentinel Property Group, Warren Ebbitt.

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Speaker 2: Joins me in the studio. Good morning to you, Warren.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. Another beautiful day in Darwin.

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Speaker 2: It is nice.

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Speaker 1: We've had a bit of overcast weather, which is always nice,

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Speaker 1: cool things down slightly.

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Speaker 3: Every day's beautiful day and we don't care what it.

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Speaker 2: Is now, Warren.

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Speaker 1: Look, there has been I know there's been massive efforts

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Speaker 1: by a Sentinel Property Group at Casuarina in an effort

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Speaker 1: to really try to keep people safe when they head

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Speaker 1: out there and to try to minimize some of the

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Speaker 1: anti social behavior and crime that you've had to deal with.

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Speaker 1: How are things going out there from your perspective at

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Speaker 1: the moment.

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Speaker 3: Every day's a new day, Katie. You know we spend

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Speaker 3: over two and a half million on security. According to

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Speaker 3: the Property Council, the average spend on major shopping centers

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Speaker 3: in Queensland is seven dollars per square meter. We spend

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Speaker 3: forty two, so we spend six times a mount on security.

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Speaker 3: In Darwin as they do in Queensland, so a terrific number.

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Speaker 3: Now our crime everywhere is getting worse, and we know

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Speaker 3: in Queensland particularly towns, well it's terrible, but it is

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Speaker 3: worse here and people I talk to our center manager

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Speaker 3: and banks, it's the worse they've seen it.

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Speaker 2: What do they attribute that to? What are they saying

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Speaker 2: to you?

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Speaker 3: Well, you get a lot of repeat offenders and they

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Speaker 3: don't spend enough time in jail. And I know they

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Speaker 3: might say that jail doesn't change people, but when they're

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Speaker 3: locked in chart and they're not doing crime, so that's

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Speaker 3: one positive thing. I think it does come back to education.

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Speaker 3: A lot of the children just don't know any better.

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Speaker 3: You know, their parents aren't doing you know, I'm getting

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Speaker 3: older now, I know we got into a kickup the

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Speaker 3: bum or something and you can't chastise children. You've just

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Speaker 3: got to let them burn the house down and give

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Speaker 3: them another box of matches. Well, they're just out of control.

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Speaker 3: So it's a complete reset and it's not something at

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Speaker 3: Casina Square we can change. Hopefully the governments will do

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Speaker 3: something soon, but it's a we do the best. We

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Speaker 3: put on another We have a canine patrols. We've put

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Speaker 3: on another another two dogs have we're now starting to

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Speaker 3: try and step that up and it's yeah, it's not enjoyable,

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Speaker 3: but every man, woman, child in Darwin goes to catherinea

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Speaker 3: square five point one times a month and most of

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Speaker 3: the time it's good, but it's yeah, it's a challenge

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Speaker 3: for us.

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Speaker 1: So in terms of those dog patrols, by the sounds

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Speaker 1: of it, you're increasing those.

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Speaker 2: Is that ahead of Christmas? Ahead of the Christmas?

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Speaker 3: Certainly we've had one started yesterday, a very friendly day berman.

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Speaker 3: His teeth do look extra sharp and we have a

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Speaker 3: German shepherd and he's come up from Sydney for the

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Speaker 3: Christmas holidays. Apparently the people who have trained him have

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Speaker 3: sat over twenty up to Darwin in the last twelve months.

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Speaker 3: For Wow, different different things, so.

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Speaker 2: Different for different locations.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, goodness may I mean that just shows you

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Speaker 1: that there are a lot of businesses, a lot of

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Speaker 1: different areas around the Northern Territory that are grappling with

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Speaker 1: this issue of crime. Warren weapons still an issue around

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Speaker 1: the complex, or have police wanting and those other security

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Speaker 1: patrols and that kind of thing seen a reduction.

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Speaker 3: I can't say for sure, Katie, but I haven't heard

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Speaker 3: any incidents in the last week. I'm not saying there

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Speaker 3: isn't any. I take it all all the reports, you know,

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Speaker 3: because there's dozens every day just of alcoholism and those

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Speaker 3: types of things. And we're working on the alcohol side

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Speaker 3: with a new design for bottle shops where you can't

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Speaker 3: contact you can't contact any staff, you won't be able

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Speaker 3: to obtain any any anything at all without having your

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Speaker 3: identification verified, and a number of number of other issues

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Speaker 3: just to try and cut down crime completely bottle shop

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Speaker 3: so that there's a lot of areas that we're working on,

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Speaker 3: and that where we're with the anti government. We've had

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Speaker 3: a couple of meetings with the with the Chief Medicine.

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Speaker 3: She's been very supportive of that. And while we're targeting

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Speaker 3: getting that in Casina Square first, hopefully it's something that

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Speaker 3: we could roll out across the whole.

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Speaker 2: Of the NT SO new designs for bottle shops.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how quickly are you expecting that to happen

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Speaker 1: at Casarina Square.

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Speaker 3: I think it probably won't be for twelve months because

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Speaker 3: this is a completely completely new new concept, so we

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Speaker 3: have to test it a bit and just make sure

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Speaker 3: it gets right now. We don't want a retrograde step

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Speaker 3: where you've got everything behind steel mesh. That's not what

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Speaker 3: we're after. Where I actually got the idea from America

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Speaker 3: because there's a very large pharmacy chain called Walgreens, and

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Speaker 3: they're doing this in a in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: And so how does it kind of look. You've got

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Speaker 1: to you know, you still go in to purchase.

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Speaker 2: You should just go up.

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Speaker 3: You have a few massive, massive prison prisons that are

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Speaker 3: all bat licked, so there's a bit of theater with it.

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Speaker 3: You scan your ID to make sure I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: that the acronym what is to make sure you're the

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Speaker 3: B yeah, yeah, to make sure you're not banned from

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Speaker 3: perching alcohol, make sure the right aides. There'll have to

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Speaker 3: be some face scanning to make sure that that is

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Speaker 3: your is your license. That's before you can select, and

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Speaker 3: then you can look at all the hundreds of different

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Speaker 3: types and then you can select which one you want

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Speaker 3: and you'll go down the back and it'll be packaged

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Speaker 3: up for you and pay with the credit cards. So

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Speaker 3: you can't steal it. You can't. You can't get to

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Speaker 3: any staff. There will still be staff there, so if

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Speaker 3: you want to ask about a particular wine or something,

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Speaker 3: we're not trying to not have staff there. Yeah, we

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Speaker 3: want it so that it doesn't matter what happens. The

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Speaker 3: staff can never be attacked, because you know it's not

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Speaker 3: only a lot of places think about the theft of

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Speaker 3: their goods, but you know, we want to make sure

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Speaker 3: that staff can't get attacked. And if people if you

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Speaker 3: can't get the troublemakers there, they'll move on somewhere.

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Speaker 1: And so Warren, would that be with the existing bottle

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Speaker 1: shops that are already there, or would there be additional

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Speaker 1: body shops up bottle shops to set up this way.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we're in a position to force existing

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Speaker 3: bottle shops to spend a lot of money, And it'll

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Speaker 3: be part of any new leases that come up. We

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Speaker 3: will we will enforce that. Now while it certainly will

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Speaker 3: cost more money, you'll you will be able to cut

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Speaker 3: back on security staff. So you know, one of the

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Speaker 3: options that some people want it was just to get

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Speaker 3: rid of the bottle shops all together, which I know

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Speaker 3: when we come up, we'll do our shopping at Coal's

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Speaker 3: and then we go to liquorand and you know, ninety

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Speaker 3: ninety well everywhere else it's ninety nine percent, or honest

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Speaker 3: I think here it's ninety five percent or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: But you know, why should most people have to go

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Speaker 3: make another trip? You know, I don't think we should

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Speaker 3: punish the average shopper. So the alternative is to make

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Speaker 3: it one hundred percent, you know, not just fifty percent safe,

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Speaker 3: but one hundred percent safe. So you know, if you

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Speaker 3: intend on causing trouble at a bottle shop or stealing,

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Speaker 3: then it'll be no good coming to casarin A Square.

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Speaker 3: You'll have to go.

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Speaker 2: Somewhere else, which I think is fair enough.

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Speaker 1: You know, you've got to take measures to try to

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Speaker 1: keep everybody safe.

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Speaker 2: I do want to ask you.

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Speaker 1: We know that there has been well I've noticed myself

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Speaker 1: when I've been out there at Casuarina.

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Speaker 2: There's a couple of.

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Speaker 1: Different things that some of the stores out there are

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Speaker 1: doing to try to reduce that anti social behavior. I

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Speaker 1: know that one that's got two entrances, it's just got

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Speaker 1: one entrance open. Now I've noticed that that Mimco is

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Speaker 1: no longer operating in one of those you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the major sort of corridors where there's various shops.

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Speaker 2: Is that something like?

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you know that you guys as

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Speaker 1: the owners are concerned about that. You have got a

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Speaker 1: situation where where some of those retail outlets maybe aren't

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Speaker 1: real comfortable with some of the behavior that's going on one.

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Speaker 3: Hundred percent, Katie. You know the situation with Mimco, because

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Speaker 3: they are in a kiosk what you call a pop

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Speaker 3: up yep, and you only had one person. Someone would

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Speaker 3: talk to the to the to the worker, keep them talking,

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Speaker 3: and then people would steal something behind. Now we tried

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Speaker 3: to get them to go into a shop where you

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Speaker 3: didn't have that situations, but they just had enough and

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Speaker 3: want to get out of there. So certainly it is

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Speaker 3: a major concern. Now I can't talk about it today,

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Speaker 3: but there is a particular tenant we have in the

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Speaker 3: center that is a bit of a drawer card for

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Speaker 3: a lot of trouble makers. Now we have issued with

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Speaker 3: them of a notice of non renewal next year and

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Speaker 3: they are a very major national tenant, so they will

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Speaker 3: no longer be in that position next year. So you

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Speaker 3: get people come in there and start queuing up of

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Speaker 3: the morning and then they start causing trouble then that

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Speaker 3: flows on to other tenants. So we're taking serious measures

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Speaker 3: and we'll do whatever we can to improve it. And

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Speaker 3: I know speaking to some of the shopkeepers. We had

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Speaker 3: one particular new tenant there a couple of months ago

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Speaker 3: and they had problem with issues out the front, so

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Speaker 3: we shifted the seeding from there so we didn't have

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Speaker 3: the loitering. So we'll do whatever we can to help

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Speaker 3: each individual tenant and help the overall center.

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Speaker 2: Or on what's happening with the quarter.

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Speaker 3: We have big plans to that, Katie. I'm glad you asked.

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Speaker 3: We are looking at at enclosing an air condition the

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Speaker 3: entire quarter.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: We are making good headway with putting in a micro brewery. Now,

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Speaker 3: I know there'll be people who don't like drinking up here.

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Speaker 3: I'm yet to need a person up here in Darwin

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Speaker 3: who doesn't like drinking, but I'm sure there's one here side.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, we always do it responsibly, Warren.

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Speaker 3: So you know they are from Western Australia and they

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Speaker 3: have a four or five micro breweries there and they're

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Speaker 3: about family food and beverage. They're not they're not nightclubby.

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Speaker 3: It's we've visited the operations in Perth and it's very,

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Speaker 3: very impressive. So we hope to finalize an agreement with

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Speaker 3: them by Christmas and that will be on the Trail

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Speaker 3: Road frontage, so there'll be some big changes there, and

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Speaker 3: as I say, we'll e condition the whole quarter. The

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Speaker 3: previous owners spent tens of millions on doing the quarter

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Speaker 3: and it would be fine if it was eighteen degrees

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Speaker 3: twenty degrees most days. Unfortunately it's not, so I don't

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Speaker 3: think it hasn't ever really worked. So we're going to

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Speaker 3: spend some money on there completely change it, and that's

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Speaker 3: probably going to take I would think twelve to eighteen months.

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Speaker 3: We've got plans here to make major changes there. Kadia Warren.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I do want to ask

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Speaker 1: you a little bit more about some of Sentinel's plans

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Speaker 1: when it comes to housing in the Northern Territory. I

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Speaker 1: know that you and I have spoken about this before.

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Speaker 1: What plans are underway and what exactly is happening from

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Speaker 1: your perspective.

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Speaker 3: Katie Well, I want to make it clear that we're

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Speaker 3: not home builders. We don't do that and we'd rather not.

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Speaker 3: That's not our business. But you know we have Centinel's

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Speaker 3: got over six hundred million invested in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 3: primary Darwin, so we're a major investor here and one

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Speaker 3: of the attractions to us was we've got one point

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Speaker 3: five billion invested Mackai North, so we're very long. We're

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Speaker 3: the largest investor in Northern Australia, a private investor. So

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Speaker 3: the plans of the Northern Territory government to get the

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Speaker 3: economy from twenty six billion in twenty twenty to forty

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Speaker 3: billion in two thousand and thirty and to get and

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Speaker 3: to add thirty five five thousand new jobs between twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty two I think it was and twenty and thirty.

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Speaker 3: Now every new job creates has a multiply three to

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Speaker 3: five our partner children, whatever it is. So thirty five

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Speaker 3: thousand jobs is one hundred and thirty one hundred and

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Speaker 3: fifty thousand people. Now you need fifty sixty thousand new

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Speaker 3: homes for that, which means every working day for the

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Speaker 3: next seven years you must build forty homes. I think

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Speaker 3: most people would say that's not happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: And no chance in the world and across Australia when

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Speaker 3: we have unemployment of three point seven percent. I think

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Speaker 3: pretty much every person who wants a job has got

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Speaker 3: a job. So we have to do something. And I've

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Speaker 3: spoken to other builders here. They're all busy doing the

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Speaker 3: normal methods, so there's no reason for them to change.

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Speaker 3: But something has to give. So we've got a business

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Speaker 3: overseas doing modular homes and the federal government has got

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Speaker 3: billions of dollars to put into housing. Now, if they

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Speaker 3: were to decide to give you a few hundred million

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Speaker 3: for you to build some more homes, you would have

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Speaker 3: to take my staff, other people's staff. So you could

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Speaker 3: pay people more to work for you because of what

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Speaker 3: you've got off the government. You could pay more for materials.

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Speaker 3: But between all of us, there's no more capacity. We

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Speaker 3: haven't created any more homes. You might have delivered what

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Speaker 3: the government want, but we have delivered less. So we

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Speaker 3: have to do something.

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Speaker 2: And so you want to go down the modular homes path.

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Speaker 3: I have to know, Katie, I don't want to, but

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Speaker 3: I don't think there's any other choice. Yeah, right, you

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Speaker 3: know these homes where now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean how many could you build? Well, how

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Speaker 1: many could you get moving in the northern territory over

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Speaker 1: a short period.

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Speaker 3: How many do you want?

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: We can do a few hundred years, absolutely, no problem

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Speaker 3: watching I guess the.

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Speaker 1: Problem always is, or one of the things that has

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Speaker 1: been raised over the years, is that you need housing

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Speaker 1: that's purpose fit, particularly if it's going out to remote

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Speaker 1: communities for example. I mean, is that something that like

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Speaker 1: that you guys see as being an issue or would

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Speaker 1: you be able to do it purpose fit?

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Speaker 3: These are built to eight on the Richter scale. Now,

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Speaker 3: the earthquake that demolished Morocco a couple of months go,

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Speaker 3: that was a six point seven. The earthquake that demolished

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Speaker 3: christ Church was a twenty sixteen some time ago, that

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Speaker 3: was six point seven. These are built to eight, so

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Speaker 3: they're almost indestructible. They're built out a structural steel, not

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Speaker 3: the thin steel framing that you might see in some places.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 3: As part of the strength testing, there's star pickets that

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Speaker 3: are hurled at these at five hundred kilomes an hour

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Speaker 3: to see how they stand up in the cyclone. I

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Speaker 3: wouldn't say they're indestructible. If you've got a big enough

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Speaker 3: bulldaers you could knock them over. But yeah, these are

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Speaker 3: you know they have twenty mili compressed five ro or

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Speaker 3: compressed cement. You can't break through that with sledgehammers.

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Speaker 1: And so Warren, is this something that you're in talks

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Speaker 1: with the Northern Territory Government.

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Speaker 3: About yep Katie with this, the Northern Territory Government have

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Speaker 3: been fantastic. Just before last Christmas, the Northern Terreft Government

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Speaker 3: has a very good relationship Vietnam. So as one of

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Speaker 3: the trips over there, Nicole Manison, they Chief Minister her

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Speaker 3: Sean Drabs and some very senior people from the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory Government were able to visit the factory while they're

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Speaker 3: over there. Until you see, you cannot believe the quality

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Speaker 3: and the work conditions its own and managed by Australians,

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Speaker 3: are very good working conditions and the quality is far superior.

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Speaker 3: So we're not talking about building something. These aren't cheap,

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Speaker 3: but they are far superior quality to anything you'll find here.

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Speaker 3: They're insulated on six side, four walls, roof ceiling, double

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Speaker 3: glazed windows. And then also early this year January of February,

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Speaker 3: some senior people from Dipple were over in Vietnam and

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Speaker 3: they went to the factory as well, and they couldn't

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Speaker 3: believe the quality. They have a QR code, so you

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Speaker 3: can click on that and you'll see who made it,

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Speaker 3: when it was made, when materials were sourced, absolutely everything.

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Speaker 3: These are far superior to anything that we produce here.

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Speaker 1: Well, Warren, we have unfortunately run out of time, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting discussion to have you

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Speaker 1: know about those modular homes, so I no doubt that

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Speaker 1: it is going to be something that will continue to

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Speaker 1: talk about. As always, Warren Ebbittt, the CEO of Sentinel

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Speaker 1: Property Group and the owners of Casarina Square, we appreciate

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Speaker 1: you coming into the studio when you're in town.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thanks Courtie, look forward to seeing you again soon.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.