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Speaker 1: E bikes have been in the news. Police investigations are

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Speaker 1: underway to identify dozens of teenage thrill seekers who documented

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Speaker 1: their brazen e bike spree through Brisbane. This is a

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Speaker 1: topic that won't go away and everybody is talking about it.

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Speaker 1: It was here the Jason's seventeen year old son Hudson

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Speaker 1: was thrown from the back of an e bike and killed.

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Speaker 1: It just keeps happening. Sydney's Harbor Bridge has been taken

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Speaker 1: over by teenagers riding recklessly. Hello, welcome to the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families podcast. Last week, about eight days ago, in fact,

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Speaker 1: I jumped onto Facebook and made a post about the

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Speaker 1: e bike Escoda scourge challenge difficulty that so many communities

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Speaker 1: are facing. What are we supposed to do about young

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Speaker 1: people on these machines? And let's just say that's a

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Speaker 1: pretty big response. There are a lot of people with

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Speaker 1: a lot of opinions, and today on the pod, I

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Speaker 1: just want to break that down. I know it's about

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Speaker 1: a week old, but this problem is not going away.

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Speaker 1: It's remaining topical. I wanted to share some more ideas

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Speaker 1: that I've had as I've pondered the challenge more as

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Speaker 1: well as your ideas there were so many great comments,

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Speaker 1: so many thoughtful people who really really shared important ideas.

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Speaker 1: So that's all coming up next as we battle the

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Speaker 1: e bike e scooter scourge in our communities on the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. Stay with us. Hello, Welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families Podcast, where you get real parenting solutions every

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Speaker 1: single day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: doctor Justin Colson here with my wife Fro mum to

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Speaker 1: our six kids. Missus Happy Families, Kylie. We've managed to

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Speaker 1: escape this challenge, Kylie. We've got a couple of kids

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Speaker 1: that are the same age as a lot of the

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Speaker 1: girls and boys that are getting around on e bikes

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Speaker 1: and ee scooters. Not an issue for us. And there's

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Speaker 1: a simple reason that it's not an issue for us.

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Speaker 2: We don't have one.

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Speaker 1: We didn't buy one. Yep, solves the problem. Makes it

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Speaker 1: easy really well, it doesn't always make it easy, but

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Speaker 1: it certainly has made it a lot easier for us.

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Speaker 1: Today on the pod, I want to share a couple

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Speaker 1: of ideas that I think are important around this now,

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Speaker 1: for those of you who haven't seen it on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: I figured that the best thing that I could do

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Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry, Kylex. It means that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to sort of dominate for a sec. I want to

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Speaker 1: read the article that I posted because it really gets

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Speaker 1: the core of what's going on, and then I'll get

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Speaker 1: your reactions and share what people said on Facebook. Here

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Speaker 1: we go. I said, freedom, Yes, free for all, not

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Speaker 1: so much. Should kids be on e bikes? Should we

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Speaker 1: legislate to get them off the road? Are they a menace?

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Speaker 1: Or is the whole kids being kids out on bikes

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Speaker 1: generally good thing that's being abused by a small minority.

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Speaker 1: E bikes are one of the hottest topics right now.

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Speaker 1: While politicians in the media are getting steamed up about it,

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Speaker 1: this is actually a parenting issue. So let's talk about kids,

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Speaker 1: e bikes and parenting. I want kids to live big, outdoor, risky,

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Speaker 1: free range lives. I really do. For years, I've argued

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Speaker 1: against helicopter parenting, and I've advocated for more independence. I've

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Speaker 1: been quoted as saying our kids should be outside, touching

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Speaker 1: grass and doing at least one thing every week that

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Speaker 1: could land them in hospital. It's provocative, I know, but

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Speaker 1: it's also true. So the last thing that I want

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Speaker 1: to do is clutch my pearls about kids finally getting

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Speaker 1: out of the side, even if they are on e bikes,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, part of me celebrates every time I see

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Speaker 1: a group of teenagers racing around on e bikes instead

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Speaker 1: of slumped over their phones. I'll often shrug and say

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Speaker 1: to missus Happy Families, at least they're outside. They could

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Speaker 1: be on fortnight of roadblocks right now, and missus Happy

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Speaker 1: Families usually gives me a mumhm and let's go. That's

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Speaker 1: about as far as the conversation goes when I bring

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Speaker 1: that up. But somewhere between helicopter parenting and letting kids

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Speaker 1: barrel down footpaths three up on unlicensed vehicles doing forty

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Speaker 1: five plus kilometers an hour, we've lost the plot on

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Speaker 1: the intersection of freedom and responsibility. I should also know

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Speaker 1: it's illegal for an e bike to go faster than

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Speaker 1: twenty five k's an hour, but it's not enforced, and

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Speaker 1: I've seen some going over eighty. So parents have sort

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Speaker 1: of said, hey, here's a cool toy, go outside, have fun,

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Speaker 1: be independent. The kids have said game on party time.

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Speaker 1: But freedom isn't the same as a free for all.

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Speaker 1: I'm more for testing your limits taking risks, pushing boundaries,

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Speaker 1: But I'm not cool with treating pedestrians and road users

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Speaker 1: like NPCs, non player characters in your favorite video game.

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Speaker 1: Climbing trees, exploring kriegs, riding your bike further than you've

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Speaker 1: gone before. That's good risk, it builds capability. But blowing

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Speaker 1: through red lights, weaving through traffic, and scattering people on footpaths.

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Speaker 1: That points to the thing parents need to teach kids most.

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Speaker 1: It's what's missing, what it means to be considerate. You

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Speaker 1: can point to immature neurological development, you can talk about

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Speaker 1: a lack of executive function, lack of empathy. That's fine,

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Speaker 1: throwing social expectations and status games, social media posts and

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Speaker 1: boast opportunities and other developmental excuses. But I'm not buying it.

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Speaker 1: And why because plenty of kids get it. They ride safely,

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Speaker 1: they do the right thing, they're considerate, and they should

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Speaker 1: not be punished because of the ones who are getting

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Speaker 1: it wrong. But by oh boy, there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of kids getting this very wrong. We've got kids doing

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Speaker 1: donuts on the Harbor Bridge. That's not okay, and they're

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Speaker 1: odd enough to know better. Actually, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: isn't Kids a lot of it are kids over eight,

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Speaker 1: young adults doing this stuff anyway, The real issue was

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Speaker 1: the adults who brought them the bikes, waved them off

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Speaker 1: and assumed that freedom would teach them consideration. That won't.

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Speaker 1: Before I go on, I just want to add I'm

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Speaker 1: being a little bit living dismissive here because I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents are tearing their hair out trying

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Speaker 1: to do the right things here. Anyway, What do we do?

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Speaker 1: How do we raise kids who know how to have

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Speaker 1: fun and be considerate, who test their limits without treating

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Speaker 1: everyone else as collateral damage. I'm genuinely asking because I

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Speaker 1: don't have all the answers here, But I know the

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Speaker 1: solution isn't another band, and it's not just shrugging and

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Speaker 1: saying our kids are we kids? Before your hand over

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Speaker 1: the ear bike, have the conversation about what freedom actually requires.

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Speaker 1: Don't just say be careful or where your helmet? Discuss

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Speaker 1: who could you hurt? How do you ride when no

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Speaker 1: one's watching? What does it mean to share space with

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Speaker 1: people who might be more vulnerable than you. We do

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Speaker 1: have a problem here. More considerate kids who are being

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Speaker 1: taught by more considerate adults might be part of a

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Speaker 1: solution that works better than the punitive fines and confiscation approach.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts? So missus Happy Families A brief

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Speaker 1: response from you before we take a break and then

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Speaker 1: come back with our many responses on social media. When

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Speaker 1: you hear that and you think about the problem, what

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Speaker 1: does it bring up for you?

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Speaker 2: Because of where we live, e bikes are just everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We're on the Sunshine Coast. We're in a flat part

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Speaker 1: of the Sunshine Coast about like a k back from

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Speaker 1: the beach, so they are everywhere.

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Speaker 2: And our local grocery store is about one hundred meters

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Speaker 2: from the beach, So any time I go down there,

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Speaker 2: I'll be inundated with maybe I don't know, ten or

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Speaker 2: twelve kids at a.

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Speaker 1: Time on the swamping the streets and the footpaths and

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Speaker 1: the like the entry and exit to and from the

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Speaker 1: shopping center. Yeah, Like you're walking up and down the

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Speaker 1: ramp and there's e bikes trying to whiz past, and.

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Speaker 2: There's this friction like you've shared very eloquently with feeling

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Speaker 2: grateful that they're out and about and doing you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of being physical, and you're in my space. You're

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Speaker 2: being a bit of a menace. But the ones that

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Speaker 2: really concern me is there are a handful of boys.

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Speaker 2: It's the same boys, and we have a really really

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Speaker 2: big major road. It's three lanes on each side, and

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Speaker 2: they will be doing wheelies. These are completely deregulated because

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Speaker 2: they're keeping up with the traffic easily, and my biggest

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Speaker 2: concern is their safety and the safety of others around them.

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Speaker 2: It just it scares the bajebis out of me because

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be the person who watches the downfall.

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Speaker 1: You see this kid get hit by a truck or

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Speaker 1: a car or anyone, or be the one who hits them.

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Speaker 1: That's right slid out for me.

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Speaker 2: Outside of the inconvenience, and there is always inconvenience when

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Speaker 2: the kids are involved, it is safety for everybody around them.

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Speaker 1: What you said coming up after the break on the

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Speaker 1: subject of teenagers and e bikes, stay with us. We're back.

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Speaker 1: This is The Happy Family's podcast. If you're enjoying the pod,

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Speaker 1: we'd love it. If you'd like the pod, share the pod,

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Speaker 1: leave a five star rating and review wherever you're listening

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Speaker 1: to the pod, and most important, share it with the

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Speaker 1: people around you. If it makes your family happy, or

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Speaker 1: if it gives you food for thought, provokes a few things,

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Speaker 1: please press that forward button and share it with somebody

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Speaker 1: that you think would like it. It's how we get

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Speaker 1: the pod out there and make a difference in the

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Speaker 1: lives of more people today. The conversation around kids and

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Speaker 1: e bikes lots and lots of comments on social media

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Speaker 1: about this one, which is why we decided to slow

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Speaker 1: it in today. First thing to differentiate here and highlight

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Speaker 1: is a lot of people say, well, we need to

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Speaker 1: differentiate between motorbikes. That is, these e bikes that have

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Speaker 1: a throttle. They've got foot pegs. The kids do a

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Speaker 1: couple of pedals and then they grab that throttle and

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Speaker 1: off they go, which is all the h here. Correct

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Speaker 1: versus versus what's known as pedal assist. So pedal assist

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Speaker 1: is where as you're pedaling, the bike gives you a

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Speaker 1: push like the motor gives you a bit of a nudge.

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Speaker 1: And I want to go further with this. So when

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Speaker 1: you ride with me, you ride a normal road bike,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes you also ride a bike that has that

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Speaker 1: pedal assist function. And the reason you do that is

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Speaker 1: because I'm riding my pushing at speeds sometimes north of

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Speaker 1: fifty k's an hour along the flat like I'm pedaling.

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Speaker 1: I'm pedaling really hard and there's just no way you

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Speaker 1: can ride with me. But when you are riding a

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Speaker 1: pedal assist bike, you have to be working your tail off,

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Speaker 1: your heart rate is exploding so that you can chase

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Speaker 1: me and the pedal assist.

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Speaker 2: It's an exercise. I mean, you're literally exercise.

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Speaker 1: It's exercising, that's right. And I want to make the

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Speaker 1: argument that I think that pedal assist bikes should have

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Speaker 1: less regulation, not more, and they should be treated as

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Speaker 1: a completely different vehicle to these e bikes and escooters

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Speaker 1: because you use them for different purposes. And you just

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Speaker 1: don't see too many kids on pederal assist bikes who

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Speaker 1: are trying to ride forty or fifty k's an hour

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Speaker 1: while pedaling their absolute guts out because they're getting their

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Speaker 1: heart rate up and they're exercising totally different things. I

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Speaker 1: don't think the governments are going to do anything about that,

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Speaker 1: and they're mis because people like you are penalized. You're

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Speaker 1: supposed to only be allowed to go twenty five k's

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Speaker 1: an hour on the e bike that we've bought you, sorry,

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Speaker 1: on the pedal assist bike that we brought you so

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Speaker 1: that you can ride with us. But if you're riding

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Speaker 1: twenty five k's now you can't even ride with me

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Speaker 1: on a regular ride, which kind of goes against the point. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's an important distinction. We are talking in this conversation

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Speaker 1: specifically about the motorized bikes where you don't have to pedal,

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Speaker 1: you just have to hold that throttle off you go. First.

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Speaker 1: Thing that came up a lot of times. So many

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Speaker 1: people said you shouldn't be allowed to have one until

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Speaker 1: you've got a license. You're on the road, you're riding around,

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Speaker 1: need to have a license. Maybe maybe not about idea,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of parents say, well, it's good for

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Speaker 1: the kids that they can get to them from work.

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Speaker 1: It gives them that opportunity. Work often starts at fourteen

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Speaker 1: or fifteen for a lot of kids. If a license

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Speaker 1: thing isn't quite right. You're not in your head. You

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Speaker 1: like the idea, you think that sounds reasonable.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be opposed to it, but our kids don't

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Speaker 2: have one.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, I got this one

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Speaker 1: came through and I think it's highlighting in a different

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Speaker 1: way something that you've already said at the moment, said

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Speaker 1: one parent. We are teaching our sixteen year olds to

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Speaker 1: drive a car. He's our third in four years, and

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Speaker 1: he has to look out for so much more than

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Speaker 1: my oldest only a few years ago. Yeah, it's terrifying

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Speaker 1: when a kid on a scooter a bike flies out

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Speaker 1: of nowhere at speed. My oldest drives a full drivers

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Speaker 1: generally a good and careful driver. I'm not saying he's perfect,

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Speaker 1: but he's autistic and follows the rules, and he's told

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Speaker 1: us how he's nearly hit a scooter rider a few

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Speaker 1: times when they suddenly appear on the road or fly

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Speaker 1: through an intersection. My husband's been stopped at an intersection

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Speaker 1: and had a kid right into the side of the

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Speaker 1: car because he wasn't watching the cars and didn't stop

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Speaker 1: in time. Gave my husband a big fright. He's also

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Speaker 1: a nurse in the ED and has had to look

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Speaker 1: after kids who have been in accidents, in them and

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Speaker 1: on them. It's far from a pretty sight.

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Speaker 2: Not only that these kids, more times than not, they're

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Speaker 2: not wearing helmets like it's literally a motorbike and they're

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Speaker 2: going at speeds that it's just scary, there's no protection

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Speaker 2: and yeah, it just I feel physically ill thinking about

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Speaker 2: the ramifications. So something going wrong.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Pickles jumped onto the Facebook page and said, we're

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Speaker 1: in favor of them. Our kids are sixteen and fourteen.

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Speaker 1: They share one. They aren't without risks, but the benefits

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Speaker 1: of being off the screens and outside with their mates

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Speaker 1: and being able to go places as great. Agree that

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Speaker 1: the way that some kids ride is unacceptably dangerous to

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Speaker 1: others than themselves, but this has been a good thing

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Speaker 1: for our family, so we got a fair mix. There's

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Speaker 1: a couple of others that are definitely worth highlighting. Here's

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Speaker 1: an angle that was a little bit different. This came

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Speaker 1: from Jen Courtney, who said, I generally agree with your comments. However,

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Speaker 1: my daughter has a part time job. She purchased an

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Speaker 1: e bikes from a bike shop who assured her it

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Speaker 1: was legal. She had a great deal of freedom having

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Speaker 1: this bike. She didn't run into people or push them

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Speaker 1: off footpaths, but was often abused by pedestrians who didn't

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Speaker 1: like her on her bike. Thank goodness, she now has

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Speaker 1: her driver's license and car, which again she saved for

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Speaker 1: and doesn't ride the ear bike anymore. But let's stop

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Speaker 1: lumping all the kids in the same basket. Use that

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Speaker 1: freedom well, And it did make me think the way

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Speaker 1: that people respond actually aggravates the situation quite often, it

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Speaker 1: makes them even more menacing. And when you've got kids

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Speaker 1: that are doing the right thing but they're still being

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Speaker 1: told off.

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Speaker 2: Well as road riders, you and I, I mean the

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Speaker 2: amount of times that we get abused for being on

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Speaker 2: the road because we're just an inconvenience in spite of

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Speaker 2: the fact that we have every right to be there

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Speaker 2: and we're not being menacing. We're literally just going about

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Speaker 2: our own business.

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Speaker 1: The lack of education, I mean, people just hate people

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Speaker 1: on bikes, right drivers as a general rule.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And we've had this conversation a handful of times,

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Speaker 2: Like as a road cyclist, there is actually no safe

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Speaker 2: place to ride except for the middle of the road because.

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Speaker 1: The middle of the lane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because to ride on a footpath means that

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Speaker 2: you put pedestrians at If.

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Speaker 1: You're riding at thirty or forty k's now you can't

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Speaker 1: ride on the foot path. It's just no.

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Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying. Even shared bike paths. It's

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Speaker 2: really challenging when you've got cyclists who are riding at

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Speaker 2: a good speed, but then to ride on the side

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Speaker 2: of the road with drivers who are inconsiderate puts you

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Speaker 2: at so much risk.

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Speaker 1: So kids are doing the wrong thing, but let's not

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Speaker 1: pretend that drivers are. I mean, this is both both

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Speaker 1: sides and what about doesn't progress arguments, but both sides

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Speaker 1: and what about? Right, let me read the last one.

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Speaker 1: I want to read two more. I'm going to read

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Speaker 1: the easy one first because I just love it when

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Speaker 1: these comments come through, like this one from Analysa, who

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Speaker 1: says solid perspective justin it's not really about e bikes

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Speaker 1: or phones, it's about parenting, the development of self control.

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Speaker 1: And she just told me that I was awesome, So

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Speaker 1: an Lisa, I really appreciate that. But the one that

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Speaker 1: I really want to point to right now and spend

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Speaker 1: the end of our pod on comes from somebody who

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Speaker 1: insisted on being anonymous. We are not allowed to talk

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Speaker 1: about who this person is or where they're from. I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to read what they've said, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make it even more anonymous than it was when

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Speaker 1: they sent it through. They've said Hello, deep breath. Oh.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this was an email. This did not

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Speaker 1: make it to the socials because they wanted to stay anonymous.

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Speaker 1: My fifteen year old son has an ee bike. He

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Speaker 1: bought a conversion kit from Ali Baba with money he

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Speaker 1: had saved from birthdays and an occasional part time job.

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Speaker 1: He sourced the frame, painted it, ordered footpegs, light bars

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Speaker 1: and more. He's not new to riding. He races in

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Speaker 1: mountain bike races and rides dirt bikes when we go camping.

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Speaker 1: He knows how to ride and is experienced. We have

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Speaker 1: felt as parents quite helpless. He's been building and saving

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Speaker 1: for the bike. It's taken him eight months. The day

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Speaker 1: he got the bike rideable, he broke his toe stubbed it.

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Speaker 1: I was so happy. I would buy a few more

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Speaker 1: weeks before he could ride it. This was great, And

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Speaker 1: then one day I came home from work early. There

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Speaker 1: he was a passenger on a e bike doing seventy

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Speaker 1: k's an hour in the backstreets with no helmet. This

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Speaker 1: parent says, I lost my mind, screamed at him, screamed

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Speaker 1: at his mate. When talked to his mate's mum, they

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Speaker 1: thought I was upset because my son was in a

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Speaker 1: moonboot for his toe. Neither of them realized it was

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Speaker 1: about the danger of riding without a helmet at a minimum,

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Speaker 1: which blows me away. Right here are these parents who

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, you're upset he was riding with his No. No,

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Speaker 1: he's doing seventy k's without a helmet anyway. So some

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Speaker 1: parents are dead set, clueless. Let's be honest. Nevertheless, she says,

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Speaker 1: our son clearly seeks out risk taking behavior, whether it

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Speaker 1: be mountain biking, swing off the rope at the local quarry.

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Speaker 1: We can take his bike away tomorrow, but it won't

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Speaker 1: stop him making dangerous choices or jumping on a mate's bike.

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Speaker 1: In grade six. We said he couldn't have TikTok, thought

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Speaker 1: that conversation was done in dusted until we found out

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Speaker 1: he had TikTok set up on a mate's device. We

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Speaker 1: talk openly about the risks of e bikes. He had

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Speaker 1: a cousin the same age and her life last year.

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Speaker 1: He's seen firsthand how death destroys a family in the community.

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Speaker 1: It breaks my heart when I read this, she says.

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Speaker 1: We give him opportunities to engage in thrill seeking behavior

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Speaker 1: in a safe manner competitions controlled dirt bike riding, weightboarding, snowboarding,

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Speaker 1: so I don't have an argument either way. We talk

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Speaker 1: about how community is not looking to stamp out good fun,

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Speaker 1: but rather how they're terrified someone's going to die in

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Speaker 1: the likelihood of that happening, and how we're all just

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Speaker 1: desperate that it's not our child. I'm well aware his

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Speaker 1: brain is not mature enough to process all of this

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Speaker 1: and always make the right choices. So what do I do?

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Speaker 1: Do I lock him up forever until he's twenty five.

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Speaker 1: I hate these bikes, but they're here. They'll always find

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Speaker 1: a way to unlock them and get them to go

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Speaker 1: way faster than they need. Instead of banning them, which

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Speaker 1: achieves nothing, how do we find a way to put

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Speaker 1: a structure around them and make it as safe as possible.

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Speaker 1: For example, if you caught it on a knee bike

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Speaker 1: without a helmet appropriate protective clothing, you'll be fined. And

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Speaker 1: then she goes on to say a couple of other

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Speaker 1: things that I think are really really important, and then

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Speaker 1: she just says raising a teenage boy is so damned.

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Speaker 1: And I read that and I just thought, this is

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Speaker 1: why this is such a wicked problem. Legislation is going

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Speaker 1: to fix it because enforcement is going to be patchy

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Speaker 1: at best. The only thing that we can do is

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Speaker 1: continue to teach our kids. And whether it's e bikes

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Speaker 1: or whether it's TikTok, or whether it's robe blogs, or whether.

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Speaker 2: It's vaping or whatever, alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Dumb thing teenagers always have, and teenagers always will want

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Speaker 1: to take risks, post and boast, boost status, look good,

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Speaker 1: or just chase the thrill because my goodness, it's so

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Speaker 1: much boundary push boundaries. That's what they do, and we

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Speaker 1: can't legislate against development. So my take on this is

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Speaker 1: let's do our very best to teach them. And I

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Speaker 1: think this is a mum who's getting it right for

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Speaker 1: what it's worth. And let's be a little less judgmental

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Speaker 1: of a bunch of the kids that are out there

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Speaker 1: doing this because most of them are just dumb kids

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Speaker 1: doing dumb things, because that's what a lot of kids do.

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Speaker 1: Let's be more considerate, more patient as drivers and community members,

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Speaker 1: and let's just get these kids through this really tricky

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Speaker 1: stage because one day they'll grow up and they will

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Speaker 1: stop riding the ear bikes and they'll drive cars and

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Speaker 1: have red peaplates and green peaplates, and then we'll have

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Speaker 1: something new to complain about. The Happy Families podcast hopefully

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Speaker 1: gives you plenty to think about. Hopefully this was a

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Speaker 1: provocative one for you, Thanks so much for listening. It's

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Speaker 1: produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Mimhammond's provides admin

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Speaker 1: research and additional support, and for more info about this

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Speaker 1: and other topics, visit us at happyfamilies dot com, dot

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Speaker 1: a