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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory Government, as we know, last week released

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Speaker 1: its Liquor Act Review, which recommended changes be considered to

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Speaker 1: make it easier for people to be added to the

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Speaker 1: Band Drinkers Register and allow the likes of transit safety officers,

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Speaker 1: security guards and rangers to search people for alcohol and

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Speaker 1: seize any that they find in public places. But in

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Speaker 1: that report, the Northern Territory Police raised concerns about this,

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Speaker 1: saying that it was dangerous and should be left to

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Speaker 1: highly trained officers. Now joining me in the studio is

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Association President Nathan Finn.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katy, and good morning to listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now we have spoken a lot about the release of

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Speaker 1: this review, and it's been suggested that to address public

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Speaker 1: drinking and the associated anti social behavior, that the Liquor

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Speaker 1: Act be amended to empower other appointed officers like transit officers,

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Speaker 1: public housing safety offices, park rangers, council rangers and contracted

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Speaker 1: security officers were basically to be appointed as a life

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Speaker 1: inspectors with the authority to search individuals and seize any

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Speaker 1: unopened container that's believed to contain liquor. Is that really

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Speaker 1: the job of those kind of officials or would that

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Speaker 1: land them in dangerous situations?

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Speaker 3: O Katie, we might as well spread it to everyone

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Speaker 3: in the public. Why don't we give everyone police powers

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Speaker 3: to do everything they want to do, because that's what

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Speaker 3: they're trying to do unfortunately, and we don't support any

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Speaker 3: form of second tier policing. We echo the concerns of

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Speaker 3: obviously the Northern Territory Police Foreign Emergency Service around the

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Speaker 3: potential safety risk for the people obviously who aren't adequately

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Speaker 3: trained to engage with the public drinkers or exercise these powers.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon they have any kind of role to

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Speaker 1: play here? I mean, the thing that I worry about

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Speaker 1: is that you know, if you're tipping someone's alcohol out

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Speaker 1: and it's cost them quite a bit of money to

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Speaker 1: get it, that potentially it could wind up a dangerous situation.

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Speaker 3: They're going to be frustrated, They're going to be obviously

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Speaker 3: combative to anyone that's obviously going to do this. But again,

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Speaker 3: we're at the point where we know there's chronic alcohol

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Speaker 3: issues in the community. What are we doing for these

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Speaker 3: chronic alcoholics? Is it a police problem, is it a

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Speaker 3: security guard problem, is it a health problem. I'd say yes,

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Speaker 3: and there is a health problem. And what are we

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Speaker 3: doing in that space? What are we doing for these

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Speaker 3: chronic drinkers we rehabilitanium or we're just leaving in our

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Speaker 3: public place in our parks to do what they want

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, this too kilometer law. It's

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Speaker 1: been really contentious in recent months. The government keeps on

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Speaker 1: saying that it's still in place, but it has been

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Speaker 1: evident that the police powers in this space are limited.

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Speaker 1: And then when you read through this review, section one

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy one provides that if a person contravenes

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Speaker 1: the provision, so the person may be searched under section

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Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty six of the Liquor Act, and

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Speaker 1: the liquor may be seized and disposed of under that Act.

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Speaker 1: But there's no other penalty for a contravention of this provision,

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Speaker 1: which aligns with Recommendations seventy nine of the Royal Commission

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Speaker 1: into Aboriginal Debts in Custody. So what that says to

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Speaker 1: me is that police can obviously tip out or seize alcohol,

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Speaker 1: but that's all they can do.

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Speaker 2: Is that your understanding, That's.

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Speaker 3: Exactly our understanding. Coatie. It's been a frustration for our

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Speaker 3: members out there. We cannot do this. There needs to

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Speaker 3: be an offense, so we can obviously question them in

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Speaker 3: relation to the offense, request their name and details, conduct

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Speaker 3: warrant checks, et cetera. For these members to actually do

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Speaker 3: something again in the community.

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Speaker 2: Why is that needed?

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Speaker 1: Because I know that again in this report the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Foreign Emergency Services of raise concerns it while

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Speaker 1: they're empowered to conduct searchers of a person four possible contraventions,

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Speaker 1: they don't have the correlating power to identify the person

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Speaker 1: that they're searching or seizing alcohol from.

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Speaker 3: So if there's an issue with a problem drinker out

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Speaker 3: in the community, how are we going to refer them

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Speaker 3: to other agencies if we don't know who their name

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Speaker 3: and addresses or where we can get in contact with

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Speaker 3: these people. We need to provide this as a health response,

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Speaker 3: so it's not a policing response. We should be dealing

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Speaker 3: this as a health response.

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Speaker 1: That's actually like, that's a really good point and one

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Speaker 1: which I think a lot of people, you know, you

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Speaker 1: kind of maybe haven't thought or they maybe haven't thought

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Speaker 1: of that. If you're then trying to deal with these

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Speaker 1: people longer term. And if you're trying to help people,

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Speaker 1: how on earth you're going to do it if you

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Speaker 1: don't even know who they are.

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Speaker 3: If we can't record the interactions we're having with these people,

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Speaker 3: if we're having an interaction with this people three or

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Speaker 3: four times a day, how do we record that? How

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Speaker 3: do we refer them to the agencies actually need to

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Speaker 3: support these people?

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Speaker 2: Is I mean, does this need to change?

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Speaker 1: I know that the COLP tried to introduce legislation into

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Speaker 1: parliament last week.

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Speaker 2: Does this need to change fairly urgently?

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Speaker 3: Definitely, It's an easy process to be changed. Again, it's

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Speaker 3: a recommendation from the review that this is based put

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Speaker 3: back in the legislation and again the cop have tried

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Speaker 3: introduced it last week to parliament and again we're found

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Speaker 3: further information about it where the government saying, oh no,

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Speaker 3: it's still in place, it's still operating. Well it's not.

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Speaker 3: It's been watered down. They had a band aid solution

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Speaker 3: to it.

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Speaker 1: I actually found it really fascinating watching question Time last

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Speaker 1: week when then the government was taking a bit of

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Speaker 1: a different tact and was saying that the reason that

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Speaker 1: this was changed is because of the Royal Commission into

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal Debts in Custody, and it was about decriminalizing people

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Speaker 1: drinking in public.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't heard.

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Speaker 1: Them sort of use those words before, and to me,

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Speaker 1: I thought, well, are we getting this strong? I mean,

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Speaker 1: are we making criminals the people that are chronic alcoholics?

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Speaker 3: Definitely that's the possibility as well. Again, if we can't

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Speaker 3: identify these people, how are we going to refer them

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Speaker 3: to treatment programs? How are we going to actually deal

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Speaker 3: with the actual problem. Why don't we just give the

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Speaker 3: police the power that they need to conduct their duties

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Speaker 3: and we can refer these people to health organizations that

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Speaker 3: can actually provide some benefit to them.

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Speaker 1: Are there other additional powers that the police do need

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Speaker 1: though to deal with public drinking?

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Speaker 3: Again, there's lots of powers that obviously we could have.

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Speaker 3: But again, when we get to that, they're in the

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Speaker 3: public space, and again they're already out there, they're already

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Speaker 3: committing these We know that there's chronic alcoholics, then we

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Speaker 3: know that they're sitting in parks day in, day out. Again,

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Speaker 3: what are we doing to prevent that? Hey?

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Speaker 1: I know that there has also as part of this review,

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Speaker 1: there's been quite a bit of discussion and a closer

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Speaker 1: look at whether there needs to be more pathways for

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Speaker 1: police to add people to the BDR.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 3: Definitely hasn't gone far enough. We need to obviously increase

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Speaker 3: the BDR to on premises drinking as well. Again, if

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Speaker 3: they can't get takeaway alcohol, they're going to go into

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Speaker 3: a licensed premise where they consume whatever they want like

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Speaker 3: to consume.

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Speaker 2: Do you have to show your license?

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Speaker 1: Though? I mean I thought that when you kind of

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Speaker 1: go into licensed premises, like say, I mean, I haven't

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Speaker 1: got nightclubing for a long long time, but that you

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Speaker 1: do that, you do have to have to show your

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Speaker 1: license anyway.

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Speaker 2: So is it kind of part of it already?

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Speaker 3: No, definitely not on premises obviously, if they believe you're underage,

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Speaker 3: that's when they only ask you for ID. Again, I

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Speaker 3: don't think we're any chance of getting asked for ID anytime.

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Speaker 2: No, probably not.

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Speaker 1: Hey, during COVID nineteen, during that health emergency, the director

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Speaker 1: did introduce special requirements for the sale of al takeaway alcohol,

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Speaker 1: including the requirement for a person to prove that they've

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Speaker 1: got a legitimate residence to consume takeaway alcohol. So this

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Speaker 1: same measure has voluntarily been applied to licenses in perap

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Speaker 1: and Fanny Bay as part of the Darwin Outer City

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Speaker 1: Liquor Record.

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Speaker 2: At this stage, it doesn't look.

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Speaker 1: As though it's being recommended that that measure be legislated

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Speaker 1: as a condition for takeaway authorities.

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Speaker 2: But do you think something like that would make a difference.

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Speaker 3: Any further measures that will make a difference, Katie, That's

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Speaker 3: the thing. We're dealing with problem drinkers that are going

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Speaker 3: to get access to it no matter what. But if

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Speaker 3: we can put further things in place to prevent them

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Speaker 3: from committing obviously drinking in a public place causing disruption

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Speaker 3: to the community, we all means anything would be work.

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Speaker 1: And I guess it goes further than that though, doesn't it,

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Speaker 1: Because it's not just about sort of drinking in public,

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Speaker 1: but then what we see is the on flow of

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Speaker 1: that and unfortunately in some cases you see crime following

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Speaker 1: on from that public drinking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, it's something that alcohol or leads to assaults,

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Speaker 3: leads to domestic violence, instance, leads to sexual assaults at

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Speaker 3: least to disruption in our community.

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Speaker 1: Are there parts of this review that you think haven't

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Speaker 1: gone far enough or that miss the mark or any

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Speaker 1: areas that you do want to see some further focus.

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Speaker 3: Well, the Chief Minister always bangs about listening to the experts.

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Speaker 3: With a Riley Review recommended liqu licensed expectors perform point

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Speaker 3: of sale intervention duties, not police. The NTP has been

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Speaker 3: saying for years, obviously that our members want to be

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Speaker 3: out there proactive policing, but they can't do it. They're

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Speaker 3: stuck in the front of the bottle shops and doing

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Speaker 3: license checks.

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Speaker 1: So you reckon you want to take You want them

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Speaker 1: off those bottle shops, those auxiliaries, and you want them

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Speaker 1: out on the ground.

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Speaker 3: Definitely, we can convert them to consul positions, have them

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Speaker 3: out on the front line, assist the front line. We

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Speaker 3: know that's resource poor at the moment. We've got the

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Speaker 3: resource allocation review underway again. We know that we're short,

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Speaker 3: The executives know that we're short, the government know that

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Speaker 3: we're short. Let's help the police out there on the

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Speaker 3: front line to do what we need to do and

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Speaker 3: resource them appropriately.

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Speaker 1: I mean, has there been any discussion with the government

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Speaker 1: about them actually doing that.

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Speaker 3: There's been no discussion at all. Caddie. Again, their recommendations

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Speaker 3: of this review. Obviously the three year review that took

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Speaker 3: four years to do. Again, we're in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: The recommendations are there. They've been clear from the start. Again,

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Speaker 3: if they wanted to do it, they would have done

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Speaker 3: it by now.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about these retention issues because from

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Speaker 1: numbers that I've seen from you guys from the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Police Association, there has been one hundred and twelve resignations,

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Speaker 1: eleven retirements and three dismissals taking that total to one

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Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty six. That's over basically what the

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Speaker 1: last financial year, or is that just since January this year?

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Speaker 3: That's since January this year, Katie. So again we're seeing

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Speaker 3: the highest attrition rate across obviously Australia and New Zealand.

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Speaker 3: In relation to policing. We're still sitting above ten percent

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Speaker 3: attrition rate. So put it as an example, Katie, is

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Speaker 3: our police force will turn over its whole police establishment

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Speaker 3: within ten years. Say that again, So if we continue

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Speaker 3: at the same attrition rate in ten years time, we'll

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Speaker 3: have turned over all our police members in our police

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Speaker 3: force and we'll be starting again.

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Speaker 2: And what does that mean in terms of losing experience.

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Speaker 3: That's detrimental to policing in the Northern Territory. We cannot

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Speaker 3: keep losing members at this rate. It's absolutely disgusting. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: with a course that goes through for six or seven

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Speaker 3: months through their training, we're averaging twelve officers a month.

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Speaker 3: By the time we finish training those thirty to forty

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Speaker 3: officers in the college, we're losing eighty plus.

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Speaker 2: Finny, why do you reckon they're leaving again.

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Speaker 3: They don't feel supported. We've banged on about it for

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Speaker 3: years and years and years now at the NTPA, they're

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Speaker 3: not supported by the government. They're not supported by the

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Speaker 3: legislation they get on the other end of bullshit legislation

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Speaker 3: that they're making up to put band aid solutions. It's

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Speaker 3: not working. Give us the power we need to do,

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Speaker 3: give us the ability and resources to do our job,

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Speaker 3: and we will do it to the best of our ability.

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Speaker 2: And so you reckon.

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Speaker 1: That is the main reason why we've got such high

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Speaker 1: attrition rates in the territory right now, is because our

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Speaker 1: officers don't feel that they're supported and b do not

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Speaker 1: feel like they've actually got the legislation to be able

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Speaker 1: to do their jobs.

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Speaker 2: Properly.

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Speaker 3: That's correct, that's what they're reporting back to us, Katie.

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Speaker 3: And again the pressure placed on them to the front line,

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Speaker 3: they are extremely The crime rate is through the roof.

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Speaker 3: We all know that they're dealing with this on a

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Speaker 3: daily basis. They're actually wearing our members down to the

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Speaker 3: point where they cannot operate. The injuries that they're receiving,

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Speaker 3: both mentally and physically on the job that they're doing

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Speaker 3: trying to protect our community is not being seen by

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Speaker 3: the government.

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Speaker 1: I understand as well, Finish that there may have been

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Speaker 1: another incident out at one of the remote communities where

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Speaker 1: the police compound was actually broken into.

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Speaker 3: Again, Yeah, that's correct, Katie, again over the weekend. The

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Speaker 3: problem was that at the time as well, we've had

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Speaker 3: security cameras down at the complex as well, so we

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Speaker 3: found out via social media. So the policemen weren't actually

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Speaker 3: aware that someone was in the compound that night. They

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Speaker 3: found out via social media through the community at what.

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Speaker 1: I So, what do you mean so people like the

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Speaker 1: criminals who'd actually broken inat it's seen.

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Speaker 3: Seen their post on social media. So the CCTV camera

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Speaker 3: system was down at what I at the time, I

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Speaker 3: believe it's been rectified now. But again, they didn't know

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Speaker 3: that someone was in the compound that night. The only

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Speaker 3: reason they knew about it is because someone posted on

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Speaker 3: social media to show them highlighting in what I.

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Speaker 1: How are those officers feeling upon learning that their security

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Speaker 1: and safety has been breached?

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Speaker 3: Real safe? Again? Over and over again, We've had these conversations.

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Speaker 3: The members do not feel safe, especially in the remote community, Katie.

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Speaker 3: Their families are there, they get called out to duty.

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Speaker 3: They're worried about what's going on and whether they can

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Speaker 3: obviously continue on working in that community.

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Speaker 2: So that happened on the weekend. Yes, that's correct, and

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Speaker 2: there were people inside the compound.

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Speaker 1: The police actually did not realize because the security the

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Speaker 1: CCTV was down, and YU gosh realized because you'd actually.

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Speaker 2: Seen the criminals sharing this on social media.

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Speaker 3: That's correct.

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Speaker 2: That's quite mind blowing.

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Speaker 3: That's very scary to them. And to think that they

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Speaker 3: were obviously sleeping at the time within that in close proximity.

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Speaker 3: Who knows what could have possibly happened.

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Speaker 1: What are those officers saying to you? Are they pretty

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Speaker 1: concerned about their safety right now?

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Speaker 3: They are concerned. They feel that they're not being listened

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Speaker 3: to they feel not being supported.

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Speaker 2: Have you spoken to the commissioner about this?

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Speaker 3: Have I spoke to him on Friday afternoon in relation

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Speaker 3: to this after it comes through. It was reported to

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Speaker 3: me again we've had contractors out there to fix the CCTV.

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Speaker 3: I believe they are out there yesterday rectifying that issue,

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Speaker 3: and I believe that has been rectified. But again, it's

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Speaker 3: a serious issue. I'm sorry, Katie, but why would me,

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Speaker 3: as a police officer take my family to one of

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Speaker 3: these remote communities and put them in harm's way.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing that we have to Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is what needs to be sorted. Our police officers

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Speaker 1: need to be safe to be able to do their jobs.

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Speaker 1: That's not okay that their safeties and being breached in

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Speaker 1: terms of being broken into. But the fact then that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't even known until that vision was actually sheed

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Speaker 1: on social media is mortifying as well. I mean, I'm

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Speaker 1: pleased to hear that the Police Commissioner is onto this

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Speaker 1: and by the sounds of it, has worked quite quickly

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Speaker 1: to get people out there to fix the cc TV.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, it's still a worry.

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Speaker 3: It's still a worry for them. It's still happening. CCTV

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Speaker 3: is not going to stop it. All it's going to

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Speaker 3: do is identify who the people are coming in. If

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Speaker 3: these people continue coming in there, I say to the commissioner,

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Speaker 3: let them worry about themselves, let them police themselves. If

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Speaker 3: we can't guarantee our officer's safety and the officer's family safety,

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Speaker 3: why we're even there.

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Speaker 2: So do you pull them out?

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Speaker 1: Is that what you're suggesting, that those officers be pulled

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Speaker 1: out of the community.

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Speaker 3: Of what it may learn for them to have some

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Speaker 3: respect for what they're doing out there, trying to help

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Speaker 3: them to maintain their safety and obviously everyone else is

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Speaker 3: safety in the community as well. Well.

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Speaker 1: Nathan Finn, we are going to have to leave it there.

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Speaker 1: I always appreciate your time. Thanks so much for joining

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Speaker 1: us this morning in this studio.

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Speaker 3: No worries, Katy, and obviously thank you to our men

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Speaker 3: and women in blue that do an amazing job every

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Speaker 3: single day out there and obviously adverse conditions and we

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Speaker 3: say thank you for that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely good on you, Finny, Thank you