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Speaker 1: Now the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait

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Speaker 1: Islander Affairs has published a report on its inquiry into

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Speaker 1: community safety, support services and job opportunities in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: The report makes several recommendations to the Commonwealth as well

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Speaker 1: as the Northern Territory governments in the wake of the

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Speaker 1: sun setting of the Stronger Futures Act last year. Now,

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Speaker 1: as we know, this legislation and its ceasation had a

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Speaker 1: lot of impact in recent months, most notably in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 1: And joining me on the show is the Committee chair,

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Speaker 1: Senator Pat Dodson.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning and how are you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really good. Thanks so much for your time this morning, Senator.

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Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. We did hear well what did

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Speaker 1: you hear really through those hearings and through those meetings

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Speaker 1: that you had when putting this report together, and through

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Speaker 1: the work that you've done throughout the territory.

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Speaker 2: Well, firstly, the report was tabled out of second last week.

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Speaker 2: I'll be speaking to it today. It'll be spoken to

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Speaker 2: in the House of Reps tomorrow by the Debuity Chair.

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Speaker 2: It's a bipartisan and consensual report. But what we heard

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Speaker 2: really was that the intervention and the Stronger Futures Act

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Speaker 2: was basically structurally disempowering and ineffective, and that the average

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Speaker 2: communities and they bit are of as a consequence of

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Speaker 2: that fifteen year domination of their lives and the lack

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Speaker 2: of services. We will to hear the focus was very

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Speaker 2: much on restricting alcohol access and very little on anything

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Speaker 2: else to do with dealing with the people at risk

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Speaker 2: or the creation of services in the communities from which

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Speaker 2: people came. There's a depletion of those services and the

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Speaker 2: gravitation towards these these centers. The really the lack of

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Speaker 2: of incorporating the averageal organizations and communities in the activities

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Speaker 2: was a great downfall. Just started off, of course, with

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Speaker 2: the assumption that they ought to be ignored because I

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Speaker 2: had nothing to contribute was a false assumption. The communities

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Speaker 2: have proved to be far more resilient than then I

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Speaker 2: would have expected, compared to the sort of measures that

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Speaker 2: were taken and the kinds of allegations that were made

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Speaker 2: about them. The and and despite their rights to self determination.

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Speaker 2: This there's a lot of judgment made about people's behaviors,

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Speaker 2: but little effective services being given to assist them to

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Speaker 2: deal with the challenges that were throwing up the domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't think there's anyone in the in

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Speaker 2: the chartory that didn't didn't accept that there were there

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Speaker 2: were challenges or problems is problems, but they felt that

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Speaker 2: it was very much under resource in these regional places,

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Speaker 2: and the focus constantly on policing and on restriction of

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Speaker 2: access to alcohol were a very limited, limited way to

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Speaker 2: deal with the issues.

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Speaker 1: So Senator, taking all of that into account and then

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Speaker 1: looking at the issues that we've seen in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: in recent months, particularly you know, after after the sunsetting

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Speaker 1: of the legislation, the Stronger Futures Act last year. You know,

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Speaker 1: how like from the work that's been done as as

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Speaker 1: part of this report, how could things have been done

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Speaker 1: differently or what are the recommendations now to ensure that

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Speaker 1: we don't wind up with another situation like what has

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Speaker 1: happened in Alice.

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Speaker 2: Well, any recommendations are going to be place based. They've

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Speaker 2: got to involve the communities and their leadership, and there's

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Speaker 2: got to be ownership of the communities in driving those solutions.

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Speaker 2: I think it's been proven that the top down approach

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Speaker 2: by governments is a way to fail. And it's clearly

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Speaker 2: unless you bring the communities with you, involve them with it,

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Speaker 2: resource their organizations to play their roles, and give them

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Speaker 2: the supports, very little is going to change. And we

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Speaker 2: had the great privilege I think of actually listening to

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Speaker 2: young people who are often talked about and spoken about

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Speaker 2: and condemned, but we had the great privileges of listening

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Speaker 2: to them in confidence of about their concerns and their

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Speaker 2: their worries and their problems and the and the ways

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Speaker 2: that they thought things could be improved. Unfortunately, there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of that was in confidence and in camera.

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Speaker 2: But you know, they're not the play tool of the

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Speaker 2: of the of the system. These young people have got

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Speaker 2: their own rights and they may get into trouble, but

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Speaker 2: I think you've got to deal with them in a

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Speaker 2: very different way than simply condemning them. If you look

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Speaker 2: back that the intervention when it began, these are children

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Speaker 2: born in two thousand and seven two thousand and eight

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Speaker 2: who went through the experiences of the disempowerment of their

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Speaker 2: their families and this mainling of the local governments that

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Speaker 2: their parents played a role in the changes to the CDP,

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Speaker 2: the arrangements, the rate of the policing, and you know,

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Speaker 2: restrictions on behavior. These are the children that have been

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Speaker 2: born out of that Rayconian types of measures, and so

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Speaker 2: some of them are obviously are going to react pretty

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Speaker 2: badly to how the society has treated them.

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Speaker 1: So, Senator, I mean taking all of that into account,

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Speaker 1: and you have said that obviously you've been out to

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Speaker 1: various you know, been out to various different communities. So

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Speaker 1: this isn't just about Alice Springs, but taking into account

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Speaker 1: the work that you have done and the recommendations when

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Speaker 1: it comes to you know, ensuring that there is well

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Speaker 1: one of those recommendations, the first one, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: Conductor of you, into the inadequate preparations for the sunsetting

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Speaker 1: of the Stronger Futures Act. Do you feel as though

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Government had done enough of that work

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Speaker 1: before it's sunseted? And then looking at what has happened

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Speaker 1: in Alice Springs, Look, I think.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole range of this stuff. Oportunities by way

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Speaker 2: of communication, there were different competing systems, there's lack of

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Speaker 2: understanding of the imperatives, there's certainly haphazard consultations about the

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Speaker 2: withdrawal and the preparedness one way or another to opt

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Speaker 2: in or opt out of the alcohol arrangements, and then

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Speaker 2: led to a lot of confusion for people, and I

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Speaker 2: don't think it was done as well as either the

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Speaker 2: governments would have liked to have done it. There was

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Speaker 2: apprehension and uncertainty on the territory side as to when

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Speaker 2: the federal government was going to move out, and on

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Speaker 2: the federal governments side, of course there's we desire to

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Speaker 2: get out of the system, but not a real clear

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Speaker 2: way to explain that to the tertory government. So governments

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Speaker 2: themselves contributed I think to the way the community were confused.

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Speaker 2: H and obviously those that wanted to exploit that confusion

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Speaker 2: to maximize that. But it was a communication blunder, if

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Speaker 2: I can put a cutway, that contributed to a lot

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Speaker 2: of this stuff and mixed ragimes and mixed practices and

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Speaker 2: miss mixed kind of expectations. So a confusing set of

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Speaker 2: standards and people's responses to that made it very difficult

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Speaker 2: to know where they were going, where the governments were going,

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Speaker 2: and how they were ever going to get control of

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Speaker 2: their own futures.

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Speaker 1: Ever, again, I mean, there is a number of recommendations

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Speaker 1: that are being made as part of this report. So

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Speaker 1: you have said that you're obviously going to be speaking

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Speaker 1: to it today and then in the it'll be in

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Speaker 1: the House of Reps tomorrow. What will be the process here, Senator,

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Speaker 1: Are we going to sort of see the federal government

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Speaker 1: investing money into some of these different areas where these

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Speaker 1: recommendations have been made to try and support communities that

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Speaker 1: are on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we what we witnessed during the course of

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Speaker 2: the inquiry was the two governments, the Commonwealth and the state,

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Speaker 2: and actually out of the manage or the matters that

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Speaker 2: were foot in other springs, coming together with a focus

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Speaker 2: on matters in Alice. You know, this is being run

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Speaker 2: concurrent to the inquiry, and of course there are financial

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Speaker 2: commitments made by the federal government and the territory government

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Speaker 2: in relation to that, and there's a coordination approach now

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Speaker 2: being undertaken between the Commonwealth and the territory. We've we've

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Speaker 2: recommended that there were to be an acceleration of the

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Speaker 2: Justice f reeinvestment strategy and practice particuling those springs, and

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Speaker 2: Catherine and I would hope that that public sector of

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Speaker 2: commitments that have been made are going to find their

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Speaker 2: way into place base allegiance with a very high level

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Speaker 2: of Averaginal community participation in them and not simply tied

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Speaker 2: up in bureaucracies discussing matters between themselves.

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Speaker 1: I guess the hard thing that we've got going on

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Speaker 1: at the moment is is, you know, everybody wants to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we get it right this time, and

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Speaker 1: that the Northern Territory government gets it right this time,

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Speaker 1: obviously with the support of the federal government. But you know,

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Speaker 1: but there has been so much chaos in Alice Springs,

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Speaker 1: you know, from terrible, terrible rates of domestic violence to

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Speaker 1: the situation where we've got kids out on the street

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Speaker 1: where we have got people consuming excessive amounts of alcohol

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Speaker 1: and Senator, that's not only happening obviously in Alice, we've

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Speaker 1: got some really serious issues with youth crime right around

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory as well. So a lot of people

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Speaker 1: listening this morning are going to be wondering, how is

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Speaker 1: this report and the recommendations that have been made going

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Speaker 1: to help territorians right across the board.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that there's some measures that have been

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Speaker 2: taken by the terratory government during the course of this

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Speaker 2: report that are showing some relief and some change to

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Speaker 2: to some of the more outrageous things that have been

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Speaker 2: going on. One of our challenges is really trying to

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Speaker 2: get get the baseline data on on on much of

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Speaker 2: this and getting some clear understanding of fact from from

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Speaker 2: you know, hearsay. But it's it's a I think that

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Speaker 2: the Terrapory government's now got itself in a position where

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Speaker 2: I'd understand it has to carry its responsibilities very clearly.

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Speaker 2: The federal government's prepared to work collaborative, collaboratively with them,

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Speaker 2: and that there are some programs that are now afoot

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Speaker 2: which we hope will see see the changes and the

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Speaker 2: investment in those regional communities. I'm going to have to

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Speaker 2: go on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no worries, we will too. Senator, we really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning. Thanks for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 2: Katie. Thank you,