1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: the Daily ODS. It's Tuesday, the twenty seventh of May. 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 2: I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Zara Zeidler. 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: Earlier this month, a group of white South African refugees 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: arrived in the US after an executive order by President 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Trump claims the group are being targeted as 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: victims of quote racial discrimination, and has therefore extended refugee 9 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: protection to the group. In today's podcast, we'll explain the 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: story behind the headlines and what you need to know 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: about the Trump administration's decision to grant refugee status to 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: white South Africans. 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: Lucy, this is a story that has been flying around 14 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: now for a few weeks, and then last week we 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: published a video to TDA Instagram showing US President Donald 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: Trump and South African President Cyril Ramafosa arguing in the 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: White House. 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: White South Africans are fleeing because of the violence and 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: racist laws. Look, here's burial sites all over the place. 20 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 3: They're all these are all white farmers that are being burned. 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: And when they killed the white farmer, nothing happens to them. No, 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: there is nothing happens. 23 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 4: There is criminality in our country. 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: People who do get killed, unfortunately through criminalibity are not only. 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 4: White people, majority of them black people. 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: Now, there's a lot going on here, there's a lot 27 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: of history, there's a lot of context. Can you, I guess, 28 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: start by just explaining more about what Trump specifically is 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: alleging is happening in South Africa today. 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: Basically as soon as he came to office for the 31 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: second time earlier this year, US President Donald Trump began 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: making public statements and shoeing official guidance claiming that white 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: South Africans, specifically the ethnic group called Africanas, were having 34 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: their land stolen by the government. He said these people 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: would be granted refugee status in the US because they 36 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: were the quote victims of unjust racial discrimination. Then a 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: couple of months down the track, so earlier this month, 38 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: fifty nine white South Africans arrived in the US as refugees. 39 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: They're going to be resettled around the country. It's a 40 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: very serious allegation to lay against South Africa, against any country, 41 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: but I think particularly against South Africa, that a group 42 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: of people are being so racially discriminated against that we 43 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: need to extract them. 44 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 2: And so why is that such a loaded, I guess 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: accusation for a country like South Africa. 46 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: Unfortunately I don't have a simple answer. I wish I 47 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: did in order to understand that, we need to take 48 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: a step back in time. So the Netherlands began colonizing 49 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: the region we now know as South Africa in the 50 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: sixteen fifties through the Dutch East India Company. You might 51 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: remember from a couple of weeks ago when we were 52 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: talking about Kashmir, how the British had the British East 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: India Company. Same deal, but in the Netherlands, a very 54 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: very powerful company, effectively a state unto itself, with its 55 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: own kind of representatives and just being like incredibly powerful. 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Through trade, through colonization, through slavery, through farming, the Dutch 57 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: took control of the region from its southern tip, the 58 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: Cape of Good Hope. Over time, these Dutch colonizers developed 59 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: into an ethnic minority in the region called Africanas, with 60 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: their own language that was a dialect of Dutch that 61 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: then became its own language called Afrikaans. They also fought 62 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: wars with the British for control of the land during 63 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: this time. Then fast forward again to nineteen fourteen when 64 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: the Afrikaanas founded their own political party, National Party. It 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: became a very powerful force. It was aligned against black 66 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: South Africans and against the British, their long term enemies 67 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: in the war for resources and for land. And then 68 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,839 Speaker 1: we'll jump forward one more time to nineteen forty eight. 69 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: The National Party takes power by itself, not in a coalition, 70 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: and it enacted the policy known as apartheid. 71 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: Okay, and apartheid is obviously a huge moment in history, 72 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: in world's history, local pastory. For anyone who's perhaps less 73 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 2: familiar with this history, can you just give a bit 74 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: of a refresher. What was apartheid? 75 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, just broad brush strokes. From nineteen forty eight to 76 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, South Africa separated people based on their race. 77 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: The government passed laws either limiting or outright banning movements, education, jobs, pay, 78 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: and marriage for non white people. This ended after decades 79 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: of peaceful and violent struggles when the party, the African 80 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: National Congress, led by Nelson Mandela, won the country's first 81 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: modern elections. Since then, things have not been completely peaceful 82 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: in South Africa. I think it's easy to understand that 83 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: when you end a system that longstanding and that kind 84 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: of corrosive, you don't just like snap your fingers and 85 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: everything becomes multicultural harmony. The crime rate is fairly high, 86 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: particularly the murder rate, and the economy has definitely struggled 87 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: in South Africa. The latest started though that I looked 88 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: at this week, shows that the rate of murders is 89 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: down in all but one region of South Africa. And 90 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: then just a final note on the kind of state 91 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: of the country in its modern era. White South Africans 92 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: make up around ten percent or less than ten percent 93 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: of the population, but white farmers own around three quarters 94 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: of the country's land. 95 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: And so you've spoken there of land, and land is 96 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 2: at the center of the claims that Donald Trump is 97 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 2: now making about modern day South Africa. Specifically, he's claiming, 98 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 2: as you said, that white South Africans are being targeted 99 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: or murdered and are having their land stolen. Where is 100 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 2: this claim from US President Donald Trump coming from? What 101 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: is the basis for this claim? 102 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: The land theft aspect is easier to explain to I'll 103 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: start there. South African President Cyril Ramafosa signed a bill 104 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: into law in January which allows the government to redistribute 105 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: land deemed in the public interest. It includes provisions enabling 106 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: land distribution without compensation in very specific cases, such as 107 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: when it's deemed to be abandoned. Following that announcement, Trump 108 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: accused South Africa of quote confiscating land and treating certain 109 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: classes of people very badly, and then soon after that, 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: he signed his executive order allowing white South Africans to 111 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: apply for refugee status. 112 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: We'll be back with the rest of today's deep dive 113 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: after a quick message from our sponsor. 114 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: To the other point. As I said, the murder rate 115 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: in South Africa is high. It is true that some 116 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,600 Speaker 1: white farmers make up this statistic. We have official data 117 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: that shows this. However, in February, a South African court 118 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: ruled that claims of genocide against white South Africans were 119 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: quote clearly imagined and not real. Then over the weekend 120 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: we heard from South African Police Minister Senzo mccunu, who 121 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: released new crime data and specifically went out of his 122 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: way to deny Trump's claims. 123 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 4: It is claimed that his white genocide in South Africa, 124 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 4: and as evidence, a lot of material has been put 125 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 4: into circulation all over social media, including in the White 126 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 4: House in the USA. Now, we have respect for the 127 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 4: United States of America, and we have respect for the 128 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 4: President of the United States, but we have no respect 129 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 4: for his genocide story. 130 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: So the minister said he wasn't going to deny that 131 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: crime levels were high, and he did say there had 132 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: been six attacks on people on farms in rural areas 133 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: in the first three months of this year, but that 134 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: of the six attacks, only one victim was white. 135 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 2: Okay, So if those are the statistics, where is this 136 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: idea coming from? 137 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 4: Yeah? 138 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: So, Reuters has reported that the idea of a like 139 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: quote unquote white genocide of farmers in South Africa originated 140 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: as a conspiracy theory in far right chat rooms. Another 141 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: place it has popped up this month is in text 142 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: generated by an AI chatbot on the social media platform X, 143 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: which is owned by Elon Musk, who is himself white 144 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: and from South Africa. I'll say X has called that 145 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: randomly generated text an unauthorized modification that's being fixed. However, 146 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: Musk has publicly suggested that the current government of South 147 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: Africa is perpetrating a genocide against white people, and he 148 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: is also so a close advisor of Donald Trump and 149 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: was in the room when Trump raised these allegations with 150 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: Cyril Ramafosa. 151 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: I want to circle back to this idea of Donald 152 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: Trump making a special executive order to bring white South 153 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: Africans into the country because so much of Donald Trump's 154 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 2: immigration policy has been about deporting people out of the country. Yeah, 155 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: how can we understand this in the context of the 156 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: Trump administration and Donald Trump's immigration policy. 157 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is definitely different to the other things that 158 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: he has done or has overseen. So you might remember 159 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: that on his first day in office, he signed a 160 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: bunch of executive orders, which are official actions that the 161 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: president can take that circumvent the need to go through 162 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: the Congress, and one of those things was pausing the 163 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: country's refugee program indefinitely. But then he has also opened 164 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: it up to this specific group, and he's also overseen 165 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: the deportation and imprisonment of legal micro pereants and edended 166 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: programs that allowed people without official documentation to live and 167 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: work in the US. So it certainly stands in contrast 168 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: to the remainder of his immigration policy that this very 169 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 1: select group, so select that it's fewer than sixty people 170 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: so far have been allowed to come in on this 171 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 1: refugee program. It's certainly interesting to see how that squares 172 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: with the rest of his documented policy, and I guess 173 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: it remains to be seen how many more people will 174 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: be given this opportunity to come to the US, and 175 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: given that they've come, I suppose from rural South African 176 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: farming communities, what their life is going to look like 177 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: once they're settled in the US. 178 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: Lucie, thank you so much for explaining the story behind 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: the headlines that I know so many of our audience 180 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: will have seen, and thank you for joining us for 181 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 2: another day of the Daily Ours. We'll of course be 182 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 2: back later today with the headlines, but until then, have 183 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: a great day. 184 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud at 185 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: a udah Banjelung Kalkadin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily 186 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands 187 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal 188 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our respects 189 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.