WEBVTT - How does TDA make money? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.040 Today's podcast is brought to you by Employment Hero. To 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:05.240 be honest, if we had had this when we were 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.159 starting TDA, I know we would have just saved so 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.920 much time. It's the Smarter way to hire. With over 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:14.280 one point five million candidates ready to go hire smarter, 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.880 all in one place with Employment Hero already. And this 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.960 is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:23.320 Oh, now it makes sense. 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.839 Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Sunday, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.080 the seventh of September. I'm Zara Sidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:42.480 Last month we launched a new newsletter series called Building TDA. Now, 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.559 I know that the name probably gives it away, but 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.560 the elevator pitch for this series is that we wanted 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:49.680 to draw the curtain back on what it's like to 0:00:49.760 --> 0:00:52.840 build a news company here in Australia and in turn 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.640 to share our experiences with our audience. Turns out there 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.840 are lots and lots of young people who are interested 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.600 in how businesses are run or are even thinking of 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.959 doing it themselves. Because we've got a heap of questions 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:10.080 in response to our first newsletter. Now I'm going to 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.000 check the link to the newsletter in today's show notes. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.000 But in the meantime, in today's episode, we're going to 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.800 be answering all of the questions that you asked us 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.240 about building TDA. 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.760 It's so awesome doing this, Sarah, because we get asked 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.560 all the time how exactly this all kind of came 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.680 to be originally, but also how things work today, and 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:37.080 I think it's partly the kind of TikTok day in 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.360 the life. Yeah, observing how things are built. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:41.720 I do a TikTok Day in the Life once a year. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.480 Yeah, it's great. Well, one of my first podcast loves 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:47.160 was how I built this yea. 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:48.360 Even the rest of the world. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.680 Yeah, I know, super original of me. But yeah, No, 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.040 it's amazing that we're doing this, and I love being 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:54.160 here and doing this chat. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.240 So I'm going to ask you the questions. I've selfishly 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:01.280 looked at all of them. Cool, you haven't, So I 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:03.600 want to start off really easy with one that we've 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:08.200 got a number of times. We get it quite often, Sam, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:10.320 Are you and I actually friends? 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:16.160 Sometimes what day of the week I'm friends with you? 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.840 And I think that that's all that matters to me. No, 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:22.600 we are, We're very very very very close friends. 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.800 We were something stopping you from saying best. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:27.919 We're best friend. We were the ring bearers at each 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:33.560 other's weddings, yep. And it's been a really amazing part 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:36.640 of this whole experience that we can do it as 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:37.320 best mates. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.120 I know, but we didn't know each other before. 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.440 We didn't know each other. I knew your ex boyfriend, ok, 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.000 I played soccer against him. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:48.040 Excellent. Moving on from my ex boyfriend, how did we 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:48.639 actually meet? 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:49.000 So? 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.680 I put up a post on LinkedIn saying I wanted 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.080 to start a news company. Does anyone want to do 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.799 it with me? And that came directly after I had 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.840 just had an appointment with my therapist who said that 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.560 I needed a project and needed something to sink my 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.200 teeth into. I was twenty two and I got one 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.959 reply yep, So I didn't have a huge man listening 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.440 to her. And then we met in a cafe a 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.960 couple of days later, and the dally Els was born. 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:14.720 There you go, what a story. 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:16.960 It was really cool because I think when we sat 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.920 down for that coffee, we both immediately knew that we 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.519 would be able to work together on this but also 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.760 be best mates. Yeah, and that's pretty rare, pretty very special. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:29.600 Yeah, it's a funny thing sometimes. I know I've been 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.200 off the pod for a little while, but my favorite 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.720 comments that we get on a podcast sometimes are do 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:37.880 you hate each other? Or like, are you having an 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.880 off day? If the synergy between us isn't there, Well. 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.800 It's sometimes hard to sound like you're best friends when 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.320 you're talking about really really heavy news stories as well. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.120 Yeah, and also like we talk about work all day 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.160 every day and the news, so like, this bound to 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:53.200 be some ups and downs. But thank you to our 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.960 very observant audience for noticing that. Now going to change 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.920 gears a bit, because the next question we got was 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:04.280 how did you know it was the right time to raise? Now, Sam, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:08.160 you had to teach me everything about what raising actually is, 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.120 So talk to me like I am Zara of twenty twenty. Okay, 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:15.400 what does it actually mean? And how did we know 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:16.080 what to do? 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.440 So when you and I sat down for that coffee, 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.840 we each owned fifty percent of the company. 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:23.120 We split it down the middle, a company that didn't 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:24.240 make this exactly. 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.000 If you think about it as a puzzle with twenty pieces, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.320 you owned ten and I owned ten. And then to 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:34.440 raise money or to raise capital is what they say 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.080 in the big newspapers. It basically means that you say 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.360 you're going to add some pieces to the puzzle, so 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.320 you still have ten. I've still got ten, but now 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:44.320 instead of a twenty piece puzzle, there's a twenty five 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.520 piece puzzle. And in exchange for giving away those five pieces, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.440 you decide that this is how much a piece is worth. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.680 And then you and I don't own that fifty percent 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.000 anymore because now we've diluted, which is think about it 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.560 like cordial to include more people around the table, and 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:03.760 that gives us the money then to do what we 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.960 wanted to do, which was to quit our jobs to 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.200 make sure that we could still pay rent and have 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:12.080 some mackers and try and build this thing and work 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.200 it out. Because when we quit and when we raised 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.080 that first bit of money, we didn't actually know how 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.080 we were going to make this a business to be 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:21.800 able to keep hiring people. So the pitch to investors 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.560 wasn't very attractive. It was basically back us, back us, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.240 and we think we can work it out, and it. 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.559 Worked okay, So just to run through that once again, 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.400 so raising was basically we owned half the company each 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:38.480 we realized that we needed to get some money in 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:43.479 order to make this a real thing. We went to investors, 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.600 so people who part of either it is their job 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:51.160 or it's their you know, passion project to fund startups 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:54.239 in Australia, we went to them. They gave us money 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.440 in exchange for owning a little bit of our company. 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.400 And when did we know it was the right time 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.840 to actually do that? Like, why did we do that? 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:03.640 I didn't do it. You did because I had no 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:04.400 idea what it was. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:05.120 Why. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.680 Well, I think Covid was the answer to that. So 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:09.960 at the beginning of twenty twenty, we'd been doing it 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.520 for three years, we had three thousand followers on Instagram 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.320 and that was it. Yeah, and that is not that impressive. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.680 But then in twenty twenty, from about February to about December, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.839 we went from three thousand to forty thousand, and we 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.800 could see that there was this real hunger for what 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:26.680 we were doing. There was Covid updates every day that 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.960 drove a lot of traffic to new people especially, and 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.800 then I remember the breakthrough moment was really that one 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.599 of the bigger newspapers, the Australian Financial Review, wrote a 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.640 piece about us, and it was funny having that newspaper 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:43.560 in hard copy at the kitchen bench at both of 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:45.919 our workplaces, where you kind of have to play this 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.599 game with our then bosses of I promise, I'm doing 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.680 my work here. I just have this thing over. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.040 There that's just have this photo shoot actually. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.279 Growing really well, and so that kind of sped up 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.479 the conversation, I think, And yeah, it was game of 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.960 me trying to convince you that we should take the 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:04.719 leap and just give it a shot. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.240 I think that that dynamic is interesting though, because you 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:12.800 convincing me basically came down to our risk profiles, and 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:17.000 so much of taking that leap into you know, turning 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.880 a side hustle into a full time business is. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.320 Your I guess, appetite for that risk. 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:24.240 And that's something that you've thought a lot about over 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:27.240 the last couple of years, is the gendered aspects to 0:07:27.400 --> 0:07:30.600 risk and just how we define risk. Well, you've come 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:31.880 on a bit of a journey, so how are you 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:33.040 thinking about risks now? 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.800 I just think that we only talk about risk in 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:41.360 terms of like very strict financial risk or you know, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.800 behavior that is perhaps impulsive as risky, and there's so 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.960 many things that are risky, and you know, we both 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.320 quit our full time jobs, and it took a while 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:50.800 for us both to get there, but we took that 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:52.920 risk together. Even though I say I have a low 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.080 risk appetite. 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.200 It did not take me a lot of time to 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.000 get yeah. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:02.320 To that point though we did, I guess, lessen the risk. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.600 By having that financial stability, we could pay ourselves a 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.320 modest salary when we raised money. Some of that was 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.160 or most of that was used to pay us a 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.560 salary so that we could still, as you said, pay 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.400 that rent and eat and whatever else. But then we 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.840 had the task of having to figure out how to 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:23.640 make money for the business, because raising capital shouldn't last forever. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.280 That capital, like the idea is that you're meant to 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.440 invest it in the business and to grow the business 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.160 and then to start making money, and that's how the 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:34.000 business grows. We got asked a lot of questions about 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.560 how we make money. It's like the number one question 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.080 that people want to know, and specifically someone wanted to know, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:44.280 how did you get your first sponsor or your first advertiser. 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:47.840 Okay, so we're going right back then to the middle 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:50.120 of twenty twenty one. Then, so we quit our jobs 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.840 January twenty twenty one, started full time February twenty twenty one. 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:58.120 Our first sponsor we sold I think in Instagram story 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.760 in about May time, twenty twenty one. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.000 And how much was that for, do you remember? 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.959 I think it was about two hundred and fifty dollars, 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.800 which is non knuck to sustain a business. Put it 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.120 that way, how. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.079 Many two hundred and fifty dollars Instagram stories you have 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:13.480 to sell? 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.559 Yeah, that's a lot. So that came about because I 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.680 think it was a friend of a friend, and often 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.679 I hear stories from founders that are kind of similar 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.560 to that that the first couple of breaks often come 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.160 from somebody who might not be in your immediate network, 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:30.959 but you might be one degree away from and having 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.239 one advertiser and just being able to show another advertiser 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.040 what an ad looks like made a huge difference. And 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:41.000 the power of a case study is really important in 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.720 the game that get that in the deck. So from 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.440 there it moved, but it was very slow. Tara, who's 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.160 ouhead of commercial here at to the A, she was 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:51.400 employee number one. Her and I were actually. 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:52.080 Doing out to Tara. 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.200 Shout out to Tara. Her and I were actually doing 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.400 our last four years of accounting a couple of months 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:01.520 ago and kind of tidying everything up and laughing at 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:06.200 how tiny the work that we won was in those 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.000 early stages. But you got to start somewhere. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.480 Yeah, and then I guess the follow up to that is, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.640 how do you grow from those very small partnerships because 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.080 people were taking a risk to partner with us, we 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.800 had never done it before. Yeah, how do we get 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.280 from those small Instagram stories whatever they were, to the 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.920 really big partnerships that sit across all of our platforms today. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.920 Someone specifically asked, do they, being the advertisers, reach out 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:31.800 to you or do you reach out to them. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.600 It's a really unnglamorous story of how we got to 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.400 where we are today, which is a really thriving news 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.320 company that can bring lots of partners with us on 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.360 this journey. It really is one, then two, than three, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.000 then four, than five minutes six. There was no viral moment. 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.520 There was no moment where we suddenly grew exponentially overnight. 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.160 I'm seeing a lot of that commentary around you AI 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.800 companies of like it launched and then the next day 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.160 it had billion hips. I know, So that is not 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.839 the game that we're playing here. So it's been very 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.680 incremental and boring, but very predictable, which is great in 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.960 terms of how we think about our growth as a company. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.280 In terms of the split of who comes to us 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.800 versus us going to them, say, it's about eighty percent 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.760 of advertisers come to us and land in our inbox 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.640 in the middle of the day saying we'd love to 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:17.520 work with you. Have you thought about doing a partnership 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.439 in this space? And twenty percent we go out and say, 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.040 we think you'd be a really good fit and we 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:23.320 think our audience would like you. 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:23.920 Yeah. 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:27.640 It's always a really fun task of trying to figure 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.840 out who can we elevate the brand of and who 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.480 can we be best suited to working with. It's really 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.680 one of the joys of this business. Someone asked us, 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.319 I guess in that vein how do you pay your 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.880 team and invest in the business? And I guess that's 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:45.439 exactly what we were talking about. 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.439 Right, Yeah, we pay them with money, which is a 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.960 good start, and we yeah, we really think about sustainable growth. 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.280 So a big trap that youth media companies have fallen 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.720 into over the past say, fifteen twenty years, all around 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:02.079 the world world is that they raise a lot of money, 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:03.800 they make that puzzle that we were talking about the 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.360 beginning really really big, and they don't actually know how 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.480 they're going to keep that going. And so when they 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.240 go back to the investors and say, can we have 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.600 more money for more puzzle pieces and the investors say no, 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.680 they actually have to let employees go. And we never 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.480 wanted to do that. So if you think about it 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.760 with us, like when we think we have enough money 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.080 for one more person, then we get one more person, 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.720 and we keep reinvesting into the company, but making sure 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.400 that we're doing so really responsible. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.840 I guess this is a good segue to the next question, 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:35.960 which is what have been your biggest failures and lessons 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:36.800 in scaling? 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:38.559 Scaling being growing the business. 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.960 I think the biggest failures have been when we thought 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.319 we could do something that we couldn't do, such as 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.240 true peoplewegh Taylor Swift tickets perhaps, and where we've kind 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:54.840 of shot a bit too high and look, they're nothing 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.040 has been critical. There's been no critical failures. But I 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.960 think this is my personal answer to this, not the 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.640 company answer, but I think my personal answer is when 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.160 I thought we could do something that we weren't quite. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.720 Ready for, as in resource wise. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.360 Resource wise, knowledge wise, getting legal advice, all of that 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.080 kind of stuff that can land us in trouble. I'd 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.080 say that one of the other things that's been really 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.320 tricky has been trying to figure out how to keep 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.360 telling really original stories and keep working out how to 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.040 have big investigations and all of that, because that's the 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.000 most expensive part of journalism, and it's a really slow 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.320 process in keeping on investing in that. But I think 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:33.719 we're on the right path there, I. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.840 Agree, and I hope our audience does. Sam. 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.800 There are lots of other questions about, I guess, scaling 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.240 the business, how we make money, growing the newsletters, growing 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:47.320 the Instagram, and maybe we'll do another episode on that, 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.240 but I want to transition really quickly to some of 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.839 the more personal questions. And perhaps these are questions coming 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.720 from people who are thinking of founding. 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:56.160 Their own company. 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:56.840 Yeah. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.520 Were their moment, Sam, that you want to to give up? 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:01.920 Not one? 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:02.920 Wow? 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.120 Yeah? And I was listening to an interview with that 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:09.480 Stephen Bartlett, who does the director the CEO, did with 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.360 Jimmy Fallon, and Stephen Butler said to Jimmy Fallon was 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.760 there a moment where you thought you wouldn't be on SNL, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.080 And Jimmy Fallon was like, no, there's never been one moment. 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.680 And then Stephen Butler said, well, what would you have 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.720 done if you didn't get on the show, And Jimmy 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.960 Fallon said, I don't understand your question, Like, I don't. Actually, 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:31.400 I can't concede, I cannot compute. I can't compute what 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.600 you're saying. And I kind of really resonated with that, 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:38.480 where I never I can't even explain the idea of 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.080 this not working working. Yeah, it doesn't. It does not 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.200 even exist as a shadow. And I don't know whether 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.160 we should do that confidence. Yeah, I don't know whether 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:50.600 we should back this up with some cognitive behavior therapy 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:52.800 or what. But that's where I'm at. 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.000 You actually just took my next question, okay, which is 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.640 how do you manage mental and physical health as a founder. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.280 Thing that you and I speak about very very often. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.200 Yeah. Look, I don't do a great job at that. 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.440 I would describe myself as a workaholic. Yeah, and it's 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.360 because of the last answer. You know, I get a 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.000 lot of joy and I have an innate determination to 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:21.360 do an amazing job with TDA. I think my happy 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:24.880 place and I'm sorry for this answer, is actually watching AFL, 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.960 Like I just find a sense of calm and peace 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.560 and enjoyment. And it's the only thing, really, besides spending 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.360 time with my beautiful wife that doesn't kind of make 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.040 me feel like I want to go on two screens. 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:39.760 Like if I'm watching a show on Netflix, I still 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:40.720 want to go on my phone. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.240 And we love shows that can be watched while scolling to. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:49.560 Oh, subtitles if it's subtitled. But AFL just grabs me 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.360 and I really love it, and that's where I find 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.280 a lot of happiness. And music is where I find 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.680 a lot of happiness as well. Okay, what about you? 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.800 How do you kind of decompress? 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.400 I think I do a better job than you do. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:07.080 You do, Yeah, I'm better at boundaries and therapy. Therapy 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.200 is very helpful and physical. It's been a work in 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.560 progress because I do pilates because I'm basic. But I 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:17.240 was doing this thing where I was taking my phone 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:21.760 into the pilarate studio and like trying to text or 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.760 read a news alert while like doing my forty five 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.560 minutes of six am. You know me time and That's 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.560 been a big lesson and a big wake up call 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:33.120 to me that that's actually the least sustainable thing. And 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.400 I can put aside forty five minutes. I'm not saving 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.520 anyone's life here. Yeah, So I'd say that it's just 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.400 about prioritizing well being and knowing. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:41.880 When you need to. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.360 Can I share one analogy that I think about a lot. 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.640 That's my latest mental health analogy. I'm trying to work 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.720 out how to get out of this mindset where I 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.360 feel like Simone Biles in the middle of the air 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:54.120 and like, where do. 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.760 You feel like, really greatest athlete of all time? 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.280 Yeah, triple flips man. So we're doing a lot of 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.440 complicated moves in the air and we're looking great and 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.280 we're doing really well, but we need to kind of 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.240 stick it. And that feeling of like constantly being in 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.240 the air twisting and trying to figure out what does 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.040 even stick it mean has been really interesting. So that's 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:15.479 where I'm at. 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.720 Okay, I love it, you know what, let's end the 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:18.440 podcast there. 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.840 I don't know how we can really compete with that, 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.720 But Sam, thank you for being so transparent and so authentic. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.640 Thank you for listening to another episode of The Daily Ods. 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.760 We will be back as normal tomorrow, but until then, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.600 please feel free to send us any questions you want 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.520 answered in the next episode of Building TDA. 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.720 Have a great day and chat to you tomorrow. 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.439 My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.480 Bungelung Chalcuttin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:52.720 that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.280 Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.199 Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.000 first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.320 Look, we got pretty lucky with our first hire, Tara, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.960 who's our head of commercial now. She actually messaged us 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:13.719 and wouldn't take no for an answer. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.320 Well, she messaged you relentlessly. 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.600 You met her for a coffee that I forgot about, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.560 that you forgot about, but you told her on the 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:22.800 spot that she had a job. 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.520 She just had the vibe of she could help. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:27.760 And then she met me for a coffee. She thought 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:29.800 the job was sealed done. 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.080 And I thought it was an interview, and there was 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:34.520 a bit of mismatch, but hey, it worked out. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.200 It did work out, and it isn't always that easy 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:38.560 to find your first hires. 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.480 No, Sliding into DMS is not a perfect science. 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:44.080 No, and it can kind of go unanswered six times 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:47.120 before they respond. But that's where employment hero comes in. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.040 So they've got over one point five million ready to 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:52.080 hire candidates in their marketplace. 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:53.679 Hey, that makes a lot more sense. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.400 It's just more efficient and the best bit is that 0:18:56.560 --> 0:19:00.560 it's all there. So you've got hiring, onboarding and all 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.720 in the one platform. Businesses have already made thousands of 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.200 hires with zero cost and zero weight. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:08.840