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Speaker 1: Now joining me on the line right now from the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association, I have got Paul McHugh.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Paul, Good morning, Katie, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks mate, good to have you back on the

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Speaker 1: show for the year. And no doubt, no doubt it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a busy one mate. It's an issue

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Speaker 1: that we have certainly well documented on this show. Our

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Speaker 1: police understrained juggling those everyday duties while also managing COVID

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Speaker 1: nineteen responsibilities. Now you pend an opinion piece in the

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Speaker 1: Sunday Territory and saying that exhausted officers are being spread

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Speaker 1: dangerously thin as the burden of COVID nineteen enforcement adds

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Speaker 1: extra menal stress to the Northern Territory's depleted ranks.

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Speaker 2: Paul Water offices telling you at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, obviously, you know, no doubt they've done a

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Speaker 3: mountain of work. I know, obviously a management team and

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Speaker 3: all the way through to the boots on the ground

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Speaker 3: that are out there responding to job. They have been

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Speaker 3: working a huge amount of hours, multiple shifts of overtime,

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Speaker 3: away from their families and they're just physically and mentally

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Speaker 3: exhausted and they're fatigued, and you know, we're now so

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Speaker 3: thin on the ground. At times we can only get

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Speaker 3: one van of course, you know, whether it be Alis

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Speaker 3: or Darwin or Palmerston. And at many times sergeants and

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Speaker 3: senior sergeants are helping in those vans to make up

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Speaker 3: a cruise. So you know, that's no fault of theirs,

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Speaker 3: there's no fault of the supervisors. It's simply the reality

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Speaker 3: on the ground right now. And I think you know,

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Speaker 3: the piece in the paper on the weekend was just

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Speaker 3: simply to say, well, you know, this is not sustainable.

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Speaker 3: This isn't a sustainable model of policing. You know, the

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Speaker 3: community day to day policing is still is still there.

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Speaker 3: We know the crime stats are up and people expect

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Speaker 3: our police to be able to respond in a timely manner.

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Speaker 3: But right now they're so thin. Of course that's impacted.

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Speaker 1: I did speak to the Assistant Commissioner, Travis Woods yesterday

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Speaker 1: and I asked him that question about whether there is

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Speaker 1: just one patrol unit out on the road at any

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Speaker 1: one time. He said that there is certainly capacity there

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Speaker 1: to be able to, you know, to get more officers

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Speaker 1: out when required. But I guess the concern here is

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Speaker 1: Paul like fundamentally, what people listening this morning want to

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Speaker 1: know is is community safety being jeopardized in any way

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Speaker 1: at this point in time because our offices are spread thin.

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, that is I guess a major concern

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Speaker 3: for a lot of the community out there. But of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, when when an incident happens, you know an

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Speaker 3: assistant Commission is absolutely right, there are other patrols, you know,

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Speaker 3: whether it be in other sectors. We're talking primarily dah

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Speaker 3: and of course there but you know, if they're waiting

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Speaker 3: in line at the Palmerston Watchhouse to lodge a person

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Speaker 3: in custody, they are there for several hours. They're off

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Speaker 3: the road, they're away from the CBD, or they're away

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Speaker 3: from the northern suburbs. So the less patrols you have

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Speaker 3: per shift, the less opportunity there is to make sure

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Speaker 3: the resourcing at the right levels to make sure the

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Speaker 3: members safety is protected as well as the communities. And

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Speaker 3: I guess you know, the feedback we're certainly receiving is

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Speaker 3: that is that is certainly a concern and you know,

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Speaker 3: no doubt with with you know, upwards of one hundred

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Speaker 3: police tied up with COVID work. That is absolutely taking

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Speaker 3: its toll.

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Speaker 1: Now now I know that those border controls were dropped

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Speaker 1: and those testing requirements for interstate and international travelers are

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Speaker 1: no longer in place. That that happened on Tuesday this week.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that the dropping of those restrictions are

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Speaker 1: going to have any kind of impact in terms of

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Speaker 1: the police no longer sort of having to manage those borders.

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Speaker 2: Is it going to have much of an impact?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, it should do. I mean it should. It

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Speaker 3: should have an immediate impact. I mean, we want to

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Speaker 3: see you know, those officers immediately back into general duties

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Speaker 3: and crime and all the other sections they've come from.

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Speaker 3: Many of our remote communities have been suffering too, and

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Speaker 3: there's no doubt it should have an immediate impact. But

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Speaker 3: of course, every time there's a required you know, whether

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Speaker 3: it's bio security measures that come in or you know,

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Speaker 3: there is a lock in or a lockout and police

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Speaker 3: are required, that's more boots taken away from from their

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Speaker 3: day to day and traditional policing duties to covered COVID work.

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Speaker 3: And that's where the impact has been. Now two years

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Speaker 3: down the track, you know, it's just at the point

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Speaker 3: where where you know it is a it is a concern,

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Speaker 3: and that's a feedback we're getting now.

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Speaker 1: As I said, I caught up with Travis Wurs yesterday,

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Speaker 1: the Assistant Commissioner. I did ask him just how many

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Speaker 1: of those officers were being used on COVID duties.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to what he had to say.

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Speaker 1: If there are one hundred police that are being used

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Speaker 1: on COVID duties, how can we say that that's not

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Speaker 1: having an impact on the front line.

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Speaker 4: I didn't say it wasn't having an impact. I acknowledged

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Speaker 4: that it's having an impact.

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Speaker 1: Is community safety being jeopardized because in some cases you

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Speaker 1: may be short staffed.

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Speaker 4: Look, I don't suggest we're being short stuffed. Every remote

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Speaker 4: police station staffed, every police station on the territory staff

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Speaker 4: So when we say short staff I don't accept that

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Speaker 4: that's the case.

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Speaker 2: Well, what are officers saying to you at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Do they feel as though they're short staffed and do

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Speaker 1: they feel as though this is all having a big impact?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Look, I mean absolutely they feel their short staffed.

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Speaker 3: I mean I understand what mister Wurst is staying there,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of those shifts you know that are

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Speaker 3: being staffed ave done so on overtime, and that's been

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Speaker 3: the case for a long time. And we're talking, you know,

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Speaker 3: large amounts of overtime being worked and that fatigue level

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Speaker 3: is through the roof. Now, I guess I could give

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Speaker 3: you an example, Katie, where I had, you know, after that,

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Speaker 3: after that opinion piece, a direct feedback from a member

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Speaker 3: and and and I'll quote their message to me, and

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Speaker 3: it said government keeps saying they're throwing more money and

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Speaker 3: it doesn't help the situation on the ground. It's time.

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Speaker 3: It takes time to actually increase numbers. And we're time.

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Speaker 3: We don't have members who are stayed are staying, they're tired.

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Speaker 3: Members who couldn't stand it any longer have left. The

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Speaker 3: ones that are still here are physically meant, in some

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Speaker 3: cases spiritually depleted, and long term effects for the police

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Speaker 3: force are what they're concerned about. And you know, when

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Speaker 3: we're getting that feedback direct from our membership and they're

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Speaker 3: concerned about what the human cost is, then you know

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Speaker 3: it's time to stand up and listen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and then when you look at you know,

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Speaker 1: at different locations around the territory where it's tough going,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't have COVID I Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: where they're going through a.

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Speaker 2: Really tough patch.

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Speaker 1: Yet again, by the sounds of it, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to these concerns around crime, I've no doubt that that's

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Speaker 1: having a great impact on the force too.

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Speaker 3: Oh enormous. I mean, I mean our police you bear

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Speaker 3: the brunt of community anger if it's taking a long

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Speaker 3: time for police to turn up. And I'm talking also

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Speaker 3: about you know, those people who aren't for our phones,

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Speaker 3: our people in communications in the communications center here in Darwin,

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Speaker 3: they be at the brunt of somebody who's saying I've

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Speaker 3: rang police and they haven't turned up for exu period

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Speaker 3: of time. Once they finally turn up, they're the ones

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Speaker 3: on the ground that are copying it. So that is

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Speaker 3: more and more common feedback. And like I said, they

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Speaker 3: are doing everything they can. The supervisors are doing everything

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Speaker 3: they can. They are just stripped of resources to all

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Speaker 3: sorts of different different I guess, non traditional roles, and

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Speaker 3: that's taking its toll on the front line.

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Speaker 2: Well, before I let you go, I want to ask you.

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Speaker 1: I know that there was a survey not too far back,

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Speaker 1: and it's said that more than eighty percent of officers

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Speaker 1: reported an increase in duties since the start of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: What exactly you know did this mean?

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Speaker 3: So I guess what that essentially means is since the

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Speaker 3: pandemic began, since all those requirements and measures came in,

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Speaker 3: lockdowns and lockouts and all those things. You know, it

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Speaker 3: is unequivocally clear that you know, members of an increase

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Speaker 3: in their duties overall, whether it be through overtime or

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Speaker 3: requirements to work on borders out in remote communities, eighty

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Speaker 3: percent of them have experienced an increase. So you know

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Speaker 3: quite clearly that's and that's not unexpected an emergency that

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Speaker 3: happens in cyclones, floods, but their short term this is

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Speaker 3: two years in now, and it's having it. It's certainly

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Speaker 3: taking its toll, and I think that's what we need

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Speaker 3: to understand.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Paul, Actually, before I let you go as well,

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Speaker 1: I know that that obviously the federal election is looming.

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Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what date it's going to happen,

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Speaker 1: but what we do know is that we've got a

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Speaker 1: number of police stations in remote areas around the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory that requires some additional federal funding was my understanding

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Speaker 1: in order to, you know, to make sure that those

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Speaker 1: stations are up to the standard that they need to be.

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Speaker 1: Can you just remind me and our listeners of the

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Speaker 1: situation in those remote communities and really what's required.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So there's some federal funding that has been ongoing

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Speaker 3: for quite a period of time. It has been reducing

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Speaker 3: year on year, and this year it expires and currently

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Speaker 3: it funds approximately fifty five police officers to work in

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Speaker 3: remote communities in Northern Territory. Now, some of that infrastructure

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Speaker 3: that came in in two thousand and seven, we're talking

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Speaker 3: about the shipping containers for example, that has been left

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Speaker 3: as a legacy of that intervention, and that is not funded.

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Speaker 3: If that's not funded, they need to shut they are

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Speaker 3: not fit for purpose. And if that funding doesn't flow

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Speaker 3: through for those officers, will have fifty five less police

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Speaker 3: in the remote communities and that would be devastating.

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Speaker 1: Well, it would have a massive impact, I would suspect

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Speaker 1: for those communities.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely and let the Northern Territory government know this is

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Speaker 3: a problem. They've known about it for some time. This

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Speaker 3: isn't you that funding has been reducing year on year

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Speaker 3: for several years, so they need to have a plan

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Speaker 3: in place if that funding doesn't flow through, whether it

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Speaker 3: be for the actual people working or the infrastructure, but

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Speaker 3: they need to have a plan because we can't afford

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Speaker 3: to lose our police out in those communities.

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Speaker 1: Well, Paul mchu, that sounds like an issue that we're

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Speaker 1: going to be talking a bit more about, I would say,

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Speaker 1: over the next couple of weeks or months, depending on

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Speaker 1: when that election gets called. As always, I appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on the show for the first

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Speaker 1: time this year.

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Speaker 3: No worries. Good on you, Cody.

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Speaker 2: Thank you