WEBVTT - Life in a Cult and a Devastating Diagnosis - Uncut with Megan Marx 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.800 Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:06.520 were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:07.600 past and present. 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:11.399 Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:24.360 recorded on de rug Wallamuta Land. Hey guys, and welcome 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.520 back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany, I'm Laura, 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:29.520 and today I feel like. 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:31.680 It's a very special interview. Now, I feel like we 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.920 do say that all the time, don't We're always like 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.320 this is super special, We're super pumped about this, but 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.200 it really is because we're interviewing a wonderful Australian woman 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.040 named Megan Marx. Now, Meghan is actually a friend of 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.560 mine because we did a TV show together the last year. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.000 We did The Challenge Australia, which you may or may 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:50.479 not watch. Chances are you didn't watch it. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.080 We're basically put. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:54.639 In a house, Heather, how are the ratings on that one? 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:54.840 For it? 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:56.880 I don't even know. I didn't watch it. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.640 It was like a Big Brother kind of house where 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.600 you like, you know, mix with survivor. 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:02.560 A little bit. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:03.280 It was a weird thing. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.560 But basically, for like a month, Meghan and I were 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:10.039 together in this house with no connection to the outside world, 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.319 you did know what was going on, very much like 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.039 The Bachelor, So we really got to know each other 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.200 on a deeper level there because you talk all day, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.080 you genuinely are present with people in your life, which 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.839 was probably my favorite thing about it. No phones, no news, 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.400 no phone calls outside. But you also might know Megan 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.800 from our TV screens on another TV show, because she 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:34.200 was on Richie Strawn's season of The Bachelor, and she 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.360 was probably actually know she was. She was the first 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:41.399 bisexual woman that we saw on our screens. And if 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.640 you remember that time, if all of you at home, 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.080 know what I'm talking about, Because Meghan left the show 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.240 and she ended up being in a relationship with another 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.160 female contestant afterwards, the scrutiny that she faced around that 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.040 time and the public backlash was truly horrific. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.360 Well, Megan ended up in a relationship with Tiffany, who 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.520 was also a contestant on Richie's scene, and I think 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.120 there was so much speculation as to whether it was 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.400 a real relationship, as to whether it was just for publicity, 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.800 Like people honestly couldn't fathom or get the head around 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.720 the fact that these two women were together, and also 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.919 it was just like the point of gossip within media 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:17.760 for so long, and I think the way in which 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:22.000 a bisexual relationship was viewed then is so vastly different 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.640 to how it is viewed now on reality TV. But 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:26.960 I mean, I have to admit when brit said that 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.200 she really wanted to interview Megan and her story, which 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.800 it is incredible. Her story from the time that she 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:35.120 was born and to where she's at now is an 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.320 incredible life story. I had my own biases around it 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.160 because I didn't know Megan apart from watching The Bachelor myself, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.440 and so I had this perceived idea around who she was. 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:48.040 I wasn't sure as to whether I wanted to do 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.480 the interview, and Britt, you very much sort of said that, 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.800 I mean, you had a personal relationship with her, but 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.040 you really spoke about her experience, what she grew up 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:58.840 in as a child. She grew up in a cult. 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.240 It is fascinating, but also it really makes you question 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.560 this idea of judging a book by its cover. And 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.360 I am so grateful that I got the opportunity to 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.320 interview her. She's incredible, the things that she's been through 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.560 and also her resilience is something that shines through in 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:16.040 this episode and I'm so. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.880 Glad that you listen to me on that aspect, Laura. 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:21.960 But apart from just you know her truly incredible story, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.560 which does involve growing up in a cult, it does 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.520 involve getting married at the age of eighteen and then 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:28.600 getting divorced again. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:30.760 Going on these TV shows. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.280 She gives a really fascinating insight into what that life 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.720 looks like. But there's another layer to her story and 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.040 it was what really drove me to do this interview. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:45.640 So Megan has recently been diagnosed with a neurological condition 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:48.760 called spino cerebella a taxia, and we are going to 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:49.960 speak about it, so I'm not going to get too 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.720 much into it, but it's basically a condition where she 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.440 is going to deteriorate and she doesn't know how quickly. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:59.480 And this idea of knowing your mortality but not knowing 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.680 when and not knowing how fast it's coming. And I 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.240 guess I felt like I had this little connection because 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:08.320 she started to notice some symptoms when we're in the 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.640 house together for this TV show, So she didn't have 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:13.120 that diagnosis then, but there are a lot of little 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.600 things that we would laugh about, and now it's horrible 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.320 that we laughed about it, but you know, her balance 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.160 would be off on a lot of activities and things 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.400 like that, and different memory and she couldn't find a 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.000 word sometimes and it wasn't enough to be alarming at all, 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.240 which is why we would laugh about it. And that 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:31.080 turns out the start of this condition, and I really 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.200 wanted to give Megan the space to talk about that 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:34.840 and educate people on what. 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:35.560 She's going through. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:37.279 Yeah, and I guess the other thing that we touched on, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.680 Like we said, there's so much, but Meghan also very 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.760 generously donated her eggs to a couple to have a baby. 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.440 And so when you found out that you have a 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.719 genetic condition, and it is a terminal genetic condition in 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.040 the long run, how do you then grasp with the 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.400 fact that this generous, active kindness that you did where 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:57.400 you gave your eggs to someone could also then have 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:58.840 implications for them as well. 0:04:59.080 --> 0:04:59.839 There's so much of this. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.880 We hope that you enjoy the episode, and it truly 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.560 was such a privilege to interview Megan. 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.560 Welcome officially to life on cut Nah. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:08.680 Thank you for having me. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.040 You have had so many pivotal and interesting things happening 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.480 in your life over the last little bit, so many 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.719 of them which we're gonna unpack and get into. But 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.360 before we get into any of the serious stuff, we 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:21.200 start every episode in the same way, and that is, 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.800 without accidentally unfilled. The story is your most embarrassing story, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.040 which you just said, you have a good one. You're like, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.080 I have some money, but I picked up the one 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.320 that is possibly the most humiliating. 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.800 I was actually thinking back recently to when I first 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.159 started dating after my divorce, and I had come out 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.719 of kind of like a semi cult at the time, 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.159 and so I'd moved to the city, and like I 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.479 was studying full time, working full time, I didn't know 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.080 anyone because I had no social circle because I was 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.039 sort of excommunicated from the church and I'm single. I 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.880 start dating, and I started going to this yoga studio, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.039 which I wasn't allowed to do in the church either. 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.160 Yoga yoga was the devil. And this really hot guy 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.479 comes up next to me and like, you know, he's 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.520 doing yoga, doing all the moves next to me, and 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.240 I'm like, oh, this is great, and he starts chatting 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:11.880 to me, and he's like, hey, do you want to 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.160 just like come to a work event with me? And 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.359 I'm like, oh, I don't know anyone here. It's a 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.640 bit weird, like going as a date to a work event. 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.880 But yeah, like, oh yeah, sure, why not? I was 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:26.640 in my yes era. So I get dressed up, like 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.600 I put makeup on, and I'm like feeling all nervous 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.080 going going with this hot guy to this work event 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:37.320 where I don't know anyone anyway. So I walk in 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:42.839 and there's like people on stage clapping and I'm like, 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.760 oh my gosh and singing and like all wearing suits, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.280 and I'm like, I've just entered into another you know, 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.560 this is a church event? I think, is this what 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:54.839 work is for? Is he a past daisy? A preacher? 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.279 And I walk in the first thing he does is 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:05.760 introduce me to his girlfriend, and I'm like, what the fuck. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:06.120 Is going on? 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.640 And I realized it's one of those multi level marketing schemes, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:16.360 like a pyramid. It's a pyramid scheme. So I've come 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:19.000 along thinking that I'm going on a hot date and 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.320 he's introduced me to his girlfriend and I'm like, how 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:22.960 am I going to get out of this, and what 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.560 do you know, another girl ends up coming thinking she's 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:29.000 also his date, and we're standing there, me, this guy, 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.200 his girlfriend, and me and the girl end up just 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.200 leaving on our own. But it was pretty kind of 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.800 embarrassing for me thinking I was like, this is gonna 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:39.880 be my first date after my divorce, and. 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.960 It was a pyramid shame he signed up to cannot 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.800 possibly be an effective way of signing up people, because like, 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.400 if everyone's arriving thinking that they're on a date, who 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:49.200 is signing up to be part of this pyramid scheme? 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.240 Well, it was like him and his girlfriend knew what 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.560 was going on too, Like his girlfriend was like, you know, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.200 like trying to get sign ups through a hot boyfriend. 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.040 Well you're more life you to get the sign ups. 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.840 If you're a smoke show, for sure, whatever, I'll do it. 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.320 Nigan, you just mentioned, and we've only been speaking for 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.480 like a couple of minutes, that you grew up as 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.200 a kid and you came out of this olt like environment. 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.120 Can you explain to us what that was, what your 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.920 upbringing was like, and how you kind of slotted into 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:16.640 this life. 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.680 Well, I was born into it, so my mom joined 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.920 when she was pregnant with me, and she met a 0:08:23.040 --> 0:08:26.680 man who eventually adopted me and became my father. So 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.840 it was more like, I don't know if i'd go 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.040 so far as to call it a cult. I mean, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.679 sixty minutes recently did an episode about what I was 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.400 brought up in. Actually, it was very much like, you're 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.559 sort of cut off from society a bit. So you're 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:41.760 not allowed to watch movies, you're not low to listen 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.480 to what they'd call secular music, you're not a low 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:46.080 to dance, you know, all how to spend time with 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.880 people that aren't part of the church. You know, you're 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.400 not all travel unless it's for if you think of 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.640 like the Westboro Baptist Church, if you've heard of them, 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.120 they carry signs on the streets, you know, saying like 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.520 gays are going to Hell and things like that. So 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.880 as a kid, that was me carrying signs on the 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.720 street and like preaching on the street and door knocking, 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.920 the whole thing. And so I got married when I 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.160 was eighteen, you know, to a guy from the church, 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:15.880 and it was just, I don't know, it was different 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.120 to the way most people are brought up. And I 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:21.040 left when I was twenty four, so me and my 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.360 husband left together, but our relationship didn't really last six months. 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:28.000 I mean, I remember when you were talking a lot 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.120 to me about this in the house, and when I 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.360 say the house, it's the TV show The Challenge where 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:34.280 it's like it's like The Bachelor or anything else. You 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:35.960 don't have phones in there, you don't have anything, so 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:38.280 you just talk to each other, which I think is incredible. 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.400 But everything you told me from your life was like 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:43.600 an oh my God moment to me because I'm so 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.640 far removed from that world. I didn't grow up in 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.000 a church. I didn't up religious at all, so everything 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.200 felt extreme. But I don't think it's just for me. 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.960 It does sound like your upbringing the church was extreme 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.160 compared to other people's experience in the church. Can you 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:58.800 talk about some of the other things that were really 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.560 kind of left field, Like, you know, you couldn't even 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.240 do yoga, you couldn't watch TV. What was some other 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:04.720 things that were real stand out to you. 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.280 Ah, it's funny because these things, you know, they've only 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:09.920 really come up for me in the last couple of 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.960 years because you're so used to you know, it was 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.760 just my life, you know, it was felt so normal 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.160 to me. But I was talking. When the sixty minutes 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.520 episode came out, I reconnected with a lot of people 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.640 from my church, you know, people I grew up with. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.520 And our church was kind of like half underground with 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.360 all these different rooms. And I remember when I was 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.280 a kid, for Halloween, every year the church would hold 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.040 a Halloween event, so all these different rooms they would 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:40.680 have a different scene. So, for example, I remember my 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.520 mum playing a car accident victim, so they had like 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:47.080 the hood of a car and then she was like 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.000 sprawled out on top with like blood all over her. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:53.080 So they would invite people to come in and go 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.080 into these different rooms and it would be more about 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.200 this is how you're going to end up if you 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.400 don't get saved by Jesus kind of thing. I remember 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:05.360 my friend playing an aborted baby, and my husband as 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.040 a kid, he had nightmares because he was sort of 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.000 forced to participate, or maybe not forced. I mean we 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:13.280 all wanted to be involved, you know. It was like 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.920 you want to impress the elders and your parents and everyone, 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.000 but it was quite traumatic. So we weren't allowed to 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:23.360 watch movies, but they did let us watch from you know, 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.240 there was no age. It wasn't like you had to 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.360 be a certain age to watch these films. But they 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:33.240 had these films more about the rapture. And I don't 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.920 know if you know what the rapture is, like the 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.480 end of days? I don't, yeah, like the end of days. 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:40.480 So we'd watch these movies about the end of days. 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.800 And so the idea is that God comes at the 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.199 end of days and takes the bodies of everyone that 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.880 Jesus has accepted, and everyone else is left behind. So 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.640 for example, you would get home, say your parents wouldn't 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:57.960 be there, or there'd be a parlor clothes on the 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.760 floor because their bodies have been take up to heaven. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.520 And so it was always this big fear as kids 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.240 that you would be left behind. If we used to 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.559 prank each other, you leave piles of clothes and hide 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.839 for your friends, you know, and your friend would get 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.280 back and be like, oh my god. I remember a 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.920 few situations, you know, kids freaking out and absolutely losing 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:19.120 it because they thought they'd be left behind. And if 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.920 you get left behind, the only thing that you can 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.319 do is be a martyr in order to get to heaven. 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.760 So the films would be about heads being chopped off 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.480 and women being pulled screaming through streets and and so 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.800 you know, you're not really desensitized to film, but these 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.560 are the kind of films that you're watching. So as 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:40.840 a kid, I had a lot of sleep issues. You know, 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.000 there were exorcisms in the church, and they didn't call 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:47.080 them exoricisms, but it was casting the demons out, so 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.679 you know, we all had our chance to be exercised, 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.640 that's what you call it. So, yeah, it's interesting. And 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.840 I didn't think that I had, you know, issues from 0:12:58.160 --> 0:12:59.960 growing up in the church when I left, because you 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.320 really just want to put it aside and distract yourself 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.520 and live your life. Finally, you know, I hadn't traveled, 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.040 I hadn't dated, I hadn't you know, I lost my 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.960 virginity or my wedding night. It was, yeah, it's a 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:14.880 different world. And then it's not till you get outside 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:17.360 of that you're like, wow, there's a whole life to 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:18.000 be lived here. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:22.280 When you got married at nineteen, eighteen eighteen, when you 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:23.839 got married at eighteen. 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.200 Stupid, don't recommend it, no, I mean. 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.200 Like, I can't even relate to the environment in which 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:31.520 you grew up in but I used to be part 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.800 of an evangelical Christian church and they were very very 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.240 strong in encouraging people to marry young so that they 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.960 didn't sin, so that they didn't have sex out of wedlock. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:43.120 There was a huge encouragement. And I would have been 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.480 fifteen sixteen at the time, and there were people who 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:47.839 were eighteen who were getting married. And did you feel 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.600 as though that was the natural progression of your relationship 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.040 with your husband at the time, or did you feel 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.280 as though it was forced in an expectation of the 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:56.880 church that you would get married so young. 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.680 It was definitely like I was in love. He was like, 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:03.600 my fat He's an amazing person, Like he's great, he's 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.160 you know, good looking, smart, surfer kind of guy. He's great. 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:10.080 So it wasn't that it was like I was forced 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.440 into marrying someone. It was like, you know, we fell 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.280 in love. But it was very much like you can't 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.920 have sex until you get married. It was kind of like, oh, well, 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.840 I guess we have to get married, you know, because 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:23.440 we're horny. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:23.760 Yeah. 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:25.960 I mean we wouldn't have gotten married if if it 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:28.360 wasn't expected of us. We would have dated like normal 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.120 people and maybe in our twenties at some point got 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.920 married or but yeah, it was I guess it was expected. 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.479 And it was also if you wanted to be in ministry, 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.040 which my husband wanted to be what they call sent out, 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.280 so you become like a pastor and you become the 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.320 pastor's wife, you have to be married. So it was 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.160 just what was done. I remember I was a bridesmaid 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.400 five times by the time I was nineteen. 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:53.280 Wow. 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.640 And the wedding was it wasn't your own. You got 0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:58.960 married in the middle of a church service, so it 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:01.280 wasn't like you had your own day either. I remember 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.160 hating my wedding day so much. I'd invited a few 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:09.560 people from my work and it was basically the sermon 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.040 was just about hell. It was about sinning and hell 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.040 and this pastors screaming at all my work colleagues, and 0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:19.400 it was I remember feeling really embarrassed and also a 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.720 bit like should I you know, is this the right idea? 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:27.040 My best friend at the time wasn't part of the church, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:29.400 and she was one of my bridesmaids, which wasn't looked 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.160 upon well, and I remember her being like, come on, 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:34.400 let's just fucking run. 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:35.520 Let's just go. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:38.960 To being a little bit tempting, but I you know, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.080 I loved I loved who I was marrying, and that 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:43.480 was the most important thing at the time. 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.280 In twenty sixteen, Australia met you on Richie Strawn's season 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:50.120 of The Bachelor, So that was I think, I guess 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:52.200 seven years ago. I can't do math quickly seven years ago. 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:54.960 And what we did see, which I think is the 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.520 first representation really that I can think of on TV 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.479 of bisexuality, was you left that season with another female contestant. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.800 I do want to talk about what that time was like, 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.160 but I want to take that back first to when 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.560 you were a teenager or growing up and you were 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:13.680 still in the church. Did you know that you were 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:15.720 bisexual at that time and it was something you had 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:17.920 to hide because I guess you were going to hell? 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.880 Or is that something that you didn't even let yourself explore. 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.800 My first few kisses were with girls in the church, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.520 and part of me is like, how did I get 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.880 them to kiss me? It was like it was preached 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.600 so much that, you know, homosexuality was a sin. So 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:38.480 I definitely had that deep seated shame not just about 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.080 liking girls, but about the facts that I'd followed through 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.480 with some things, and it was very much hidden, like 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.360 no one knew. You didn't tell anyone. So I knew 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.520 growing up that I was attracted to women, but when 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.240 I married Chris, I was all about him, so it 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.520 wasn't really in my mind until we split up and 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.520 then I started dating women. But it was hard in 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.439 the way of you know, I think one of the 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:10.760 worst effects from being part of such a fundamentalist church, 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.439 if you could call it that, is the sort of 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.000 shame and guilt that carries on that has been about 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.480 my sexuality and about other things too, Like someone will 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.840 cut me off in traffic. I mean, I'll cut someone 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.640 off in traffic, and I'll think about it all week. 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.640 I'm useless. I shouldn't have done that, And you know, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:29.159 just this shame and guilt that sort of stays with 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:31.840 you and you try and attach it to things even 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.359 if you've done nothing wrong. And I certainly felt that 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.680 about my sexuality, but you know, it gets better with time. 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.640 How do you come to a decision to leave an 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.679 institution like the church that you're involved in when so 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.639 much of your life, your identity, your belief system is 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:50.800 wrapped up in it. What changed for you and what 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.600 was the catalyst that made you want to leave. 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.919 I had wanted to leave for a while. It was 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:57.920 actually my wedding day. That was one of the first 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.439 things that I was like, this doesn't feel right. It 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:03.240 was so controlled, you know, it was like meant to 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.960 be your one day, especially as part of the church, 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.240 because you're not allowed to do much, so it's meant 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.439 to be your one day where you can it's about 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:12.639 you and you can enjoy yourself. And it just it 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.960 wasn't like that at all, and there were just so 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.760 many rules, and I had a lot of questions. You know, 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.800 I've always had a lot of questions, and you start 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.560 to be seen as what they'd call a Jezebel for 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.359 having questions, and you start to get socially excluded. There 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.240 were a lot of things that didn't add up for 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:34.600 me personally in the Bible. So I'd wanted to leave 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.440 for a while, and I'd sort of brought these things 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.720 up with my partner because I still wanted to be 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:42.640 with him, and he was kind of like, no, you've 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.040 got to pray about it. You've got to pray and fast. 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.399 What they'd say, you'd fast for three days and pray 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:49.399 and then God would listen to you and give you 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.280 the answers. And I was trying all these things, but 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.399