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Speaker 1: Three sixty with Katie Wolf on Mixed one oh four

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Speaker 1: point nine thanks to Joyce main Darwin. If you're listening

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Speaker 1: to the show on Friday, you would have heard that

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Speaker 1: we'd read out the statement which was issued by the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Association saying that they're discussed by the

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Speaker 1: grandstanding of the Commissioner, the IKAK Commissioner Ken Fleming QC

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Speaker 1: during estimates last week. Now earlier this morning, we did

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Speaker 1: speak to the Northern Territory Chief Minister, Michael Gunner. If

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Speaker 1: you miss that interview, we will have it up online

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Speaker 1: in just a little while. But joining us on the

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Speaker 1: line right now is the Northern Territory Police Association President

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Speaker 1: Paul McHugh. Good morning to you, Paul.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Kenny, Paul.

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Speaker 1: What well, why exactly were those comments made by the

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Speaker 1: IKAK not acceptable in your ice?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess the fundamental I guess reason we have

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Speaker 2: an IKAK is is confidence and we want to know

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Speaker 2: there's confidence in terms of people wanting to approach IKAK

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Speaker 2: and report that matters at day belie if maybe of

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Speaker 2: corrupt behavior or should be at least assessed as whether

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Speaker 2: they are corrupt behavior and the whole premise of the

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Speaker 2: success of that process is knowing that when somebody does

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Speaker 2: approach the office that there's confidence those people will be protected,

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Speaker 2: those whistle bowers will be protected. Now, the day before estimates,

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Speaker 2: the IKAK Commissioner sort of states makes a statement saying,

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Speaker 2: as the matter is before the inspector, be inappropriate to

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Speaker 2: comment further, and that yet the next day, under the

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Speaker 2: veil of parliamentary privilege, makes a decision to clearly, clearly,

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Speaker 2: deliberately makes a decision to go on a rand in

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Speaker 2: relation to this particular individual who'd made the complaint. Now that,

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Speaker 2: I mean that is extraordinary when you think about what

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Speaker 2: his position is and what the public should expect of

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Speaker 2: somebody in that position, for him to make those statements

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Speaker 2: and it is completely unacceptable. We all know that mister

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Speaker 2: Fleming's moving on as soon as a few weeks time,

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Speaker 2: and from our perspective, it fails the pub test significantly

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Speaker 2: and he should stand down.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear the interview with Chief Minister Michael Gunner

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Speaker 1: a little bit earlier this morning.

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Speaker 2: Paul, Yes, I did.

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Speaker 1: Yet, Now what did you make of his comments? I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you think that it goes far enough? Him saying

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Speaker 1: that there is going to be an independent investigation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously he is remaining a bit hands off

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Speaker 2: at this stage. Well, he's also aware that mister Fleming's

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Speaker 2: moving on, so he's no doubt going to leave it

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Speaker 2: to the inspector and an independent I guess review of

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Speaker 2: VIKAC generally. And LOOKI has pointed out it is a

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Speaker 2: relatively new body here in the Northern Territory. But you know,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't remove the fact that the Chief Minister sat

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Speaker 2: there silently in estimates and allowed mister Fleming to take

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Speaker 2: that stand and make those comments, and that being the

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Speaker 2: responsible minister is not being responsible and certainly from our perspective,

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Speaker 2: was not good enough.

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Speaker 1: Paul, what do you think it says about the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister's leadership.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously it's a concern. I mean obviously, you

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Speaker 2: know we've said it is a new body, and obviously

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Speaker 2: you know everyone's trying to work out where this body sits.

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Speaker 2: But you know this isn't you know, I haven't reinvented

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Speaker 2: a wheel here. Ikack's been around in other jurisdictions for

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Speaker 2: some time and it's clearly there for a reason. The

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Speaker 2: problem we have is obviously people want to go to

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Speaker 2: the IKAK often at times to report matters that relate

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Speaker 2: to government departments. For example, you've got to know that

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Speaker 2: body SIT's completely independently of any other department or influence. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: on this occasion, I don't think mister Fleming sits with

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Speaker 2: those values. Clearly. You know he's made a statement publicly

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Speaker 2: at estimates the day after saying he won't public publicly

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Speaker 2: comment urther. I think that says a lot.

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Speaker 1: So do you stand by your comments that you think

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Speaker 1: the KAC commissioner needs to stand down? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Completely. I mean we know he's moving on, we know

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Speaker 2: he's moving to retirement. There is no reason for him

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Speaker 2: the return on the back of those comments. I think

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Speaker 2: the community of the Northern Territory, you know, and look

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Speaker 2: at our police officers, for example, they are held to

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Speaker 2: the utmost scrutiny. They are governed beyond governed in terms

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Speaker 2: of the bodies, the oversight bodies that look at their

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Speaker 2: behavior and they only have to look twice. They can't

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Speaker 2: make a comment about anything without being scrutinized to the

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Speaker 2: nth degree. We want to know as a community that

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Speaker 2: our ARCAC commissioner is doing the job they're supposed to

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Speaker 2: do not grandstanding, and that's not the case on this occasion.

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Speaker 2: So yes, Katie, he should stand down. He should move on,

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Speaker 2: allow the new ARCAC commissioner to come in and take

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Speaker 2: the rain.

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Speaker 1: Now, we did hear from the Chief Minister earlier this

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Speaker 1: morning that that whistleblower will be allowed to give evidence

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Speaker 1: to estimates if they choose to. I mean, does that

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Speaker 1: along with the investigation into the ikak And you know,

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Speaker 1: I guess the commentary from the Chief Minister this morning,

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Speaker 1: do you feel that goes far enough from the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister's perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's pretty I guess it's pretty daunting to

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Speaker 2: be in their shoes, now, isn't it when you look

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Speaker 2: at the I mean, obviously I don't know anything about

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Speaker 2: the matter. I don't know the individuals concerned, but certainly,

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Speaker 2: you know, they felt the confidence to come forward, felt

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Speaker 2: the need to come forward and make those complaints through

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Speaker 2: the Ikak and to the inspector. And now they've been

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Speaker 2: subject to this public scrutiny because of the grandstanding of

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Speaker 2: the Aikak Commissioner himself, So they probably would be reluctant,

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Speaker 2: you would think, to come forward now, which is against

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Speaker 2: the whole premise of what this particular body is set

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Speaker 2: up to do, and that's to give people the confidence

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Speaker 2: to actually come forward and make these sorts of complaint.

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Speaker 1: Paul, just in sort of wrapping up for this morning,

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Speaker 1: what do you think needs to happen today?

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Speaker 2: Well, what we'd like to see obviously, is the ARKAC

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Speaker 2: commissioner stand down. You know, he is moving on in

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Speaker 2: a few weeks time on the back of I think

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Speaker 2: what everyone would accept his inappropriate commentary at Estimates session,

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Speaker 2: he should stand out, move on and allow the next

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Speaker 2: phase of the ARKAK to take charge and whether that's

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Speaker 2: the independent review and then obviously we've got a new

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Speaker 2: KAC commissioner coming in and allow the community to have

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Speaker 2: the confidence that body's doing what it's set.

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Speaker 1: Up to do. And if he chooses to stay in

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Speaker 1: that role, what impact do you think that that will

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Speaker 1: have on any future reports that are due to come out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he said in estimates last week that there

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Speaker 1: are around three reports if I recall correctly, around three

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Speaker 1: reports that are due to be released before he finishes up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess it. You like to have the confidence.

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Speaker 2: I know there's some very good people that work in there.

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Speaker 2: You like to think they have the confidence to make

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Speaker 2: sure those matters are dealt with appropriately. I think what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about here is this particular grandstanding. It's not

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Speaker 2: acceptable in terms of the reports that are you to

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Speaker 2: come out. You know, we'll have to wait and see

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Speaker 2: what they do, but I don't believe it's appropriate for

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Speaker 2: him to continue, and we've made that public statement.

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Speaker 1: Well. Police Association President Paul McHugh, As always, we appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time today, Thanks so much for speaking with us.

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Speaker 1: Good on you Chi's Katie, Thank you and that number

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Speaker 1: if you are keen to get in contact this morning

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Speaker 1: eight nine four one one o four nine. You're also

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Speaker 1: able to send us a text message zero four one

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Speaker 1: eight nine five seven three six nine and we and look,

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Speaker 1: we are going to see whether we're able to actually

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Speaker 1: get the IKA Commissioner on I think it would be

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Speaker 1: good to hear from Ken Fleming himself and you know,

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Speaker 1: try to ascertain exactly I suppose you know, what what

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Speaker 1: he was thinking behind those comments. So mindus is that

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Speaker 1: he is back from leave, but we will certainly get

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Speaker 1: in contact with his office and allow him the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to respond as well to some of the commentary around

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Speaker 1: this but we are keen to hear from you this morning.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that the IKAQ Commissioner's position

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Speaker 1: is tenable? We know that he is now in the

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Speaker 1: role until the fifth of next month, so it is

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Speaker 1: only a few weeks away. But do you think that

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Speaker 1: it's tenable. Do you think that he does need to

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Speaker 1: stand down or do you think that it is appropriate

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Speaker 1: that he stays in that role. We know it's been

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Speaker 1: a very big job setting up the IKAK, that whole

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Speaker 1: body itself, and you know, I am somebody who does

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Speaker 1: believe that we need an eye CAAC. I think that

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Speaker 1: we do need this body, this independent body in place

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Speaker 1: to be able to investigate any corruption or you know,

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Speaker 1: any misuse of public money. I think it's a very

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Speaker 1: important role. But I'm keen to hear your thoughts. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel as though it's lived up to the expectations

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Speaker 1: eight nine four one one four nine, or you can

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Speaker 1: also send us a message zero four one eight nine

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Speaker 1: five seven three six nine