1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,200 Speaker 1: Now we know that it is being reported today in 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: the paper a report by Matt Cunningham. Public servants have 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 1: been offered up to three days extra and you'll leave 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: as part of enterprise bargaining negotiations. Women would also have 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: their superannuation payments doubled when on maternity leave. But the 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: Commissioner for Public Employment is refusing to budge on a 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: government in posed pay freeze, sticking to that offer of 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: one thousand dollars cash bonus. Joining me on the line 9 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: to talk more about this, Matt Cunningham from Sky News. 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: Good morning, Matt, Katie. 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,279 Speaker 1: How are you not too bad mate? This this pay freeze? Well, 12 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: they're sticking with the pay freeze, but it sounds as 13 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: though they're going to get paid a bit extra in 14 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: other ways. 15 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: Ye look, give with one hand and take it the other. 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I'm really missing these negotiations. So you know, 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 2: we reported a few weeks ago about some of the 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: other things that have been offered as part of these negotiations, 19 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: the end of transitioning leave and night week leaves. So 20 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: this latest off of it's been put forward by the 21 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: Commissioner of the Public Employment includes basically three extra days 22 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: off Now at the moment, if a public servant works 23 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: in an agency that shuts down over Christmas, then they 24 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 2: need to take basically, there's usually two or three days 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: in that period between Christmas and New Year that are 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 2: not public holidays that they need to take his annual leave. 27 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: Now that in the past has come out of their 28 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 2: six weeks of annual leave entitlements. But under this new offer, 29 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: they'll basically be given paid leave to those days as well, 30 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: so essentially gives them an extra three days of paid 31 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: annual leave that would be taken over that period. Now, 32 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: if you're in a job where your agency doesn't close 33 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: down over that period, you would get the three days 34 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 2: to be able to take the three days somewhere else. Wow. 35 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: Like, the thing that gets me about this is I 36 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: get that it's their leave days, so it's not additional 37 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: cash in hand end, but you know, essentially, I guess 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: you'd say that it is in other ways if you 39 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: you know, however you look at it. But the thing 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: that gets me is, you know they're saying, all right, 41 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: well there's a pay freeze, and yes, there is a 42 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: pay freeze, only one thousand dollars then annual bonus, but 43 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: some of these other things are ultimately going to cost 44 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,279 Speaker 1: the taxpayer ongoing. 45 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 2: Well they are, aren't they. I mean, you know, if 46 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: your average tother servant, you know, one hundred thousand dollars 47 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 2: a year, I think that would work out at about 48 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: twelve hundred bucks ahead extra. And you know, these are 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: part of the negotiations obviously, and they're obviously of the 50 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: belief that they need to offer something to get the 51 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: unions over the table given that that pay free is 52 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: in place. They're interesting on the pay free. If we 53 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: know that it came from the recommendation from the Langland Report, 54 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: the government's actually gone further than what that recommendation is. 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: So the recommendation in the Langland report was basically a 56 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: thousand dollars pay rise across the So you know that 57 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: means if you're in a low paying, a forty thousand 58 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: dollars a year job, you get a two and a 59 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: half percent pay rise. But if you're you know, one 60 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty grand a year, well then you know 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: it's less than a month percent. But what the government's 62 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 2: actually done is said no, we're not going to do that, 63 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: where instead just going to pay a one thousand dollars 64 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: cash bonus. Now, I think there's some angst about that 65 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: because it means that you know, it doesn't even accumulate, 66 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: you don't see we're on. I think there's people have 67 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 2: got a few issues, but I would say that there's 68 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: been a fair bit of reaction already to the story 69 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: this morning. Yeah, and quite a bit of anger coming 70 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: from some areas. I think most of the frustration comes 71 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 2: from people in the private sector to have a difficulty, 72 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: whether they're a business owner and they have retaining staff, 73 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: or they're a worker in the private sector who don't 74 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: get touch generous entitlements. So I think there are people 75 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: who believe, well, you know, particularly those owners, they think, 76 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: how am I going to hang on to much staff? 77 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 1: That's right? 78 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: You know, people in the public service are getting you know, 79 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: effectively six and a half weeks and you will leave, 80 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: you know, and I can really only offer four. 81 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: Well, and this is the thing, you know, if you 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: are someone who's trying to you know, trying to employ someone, 83 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: it's a very difficult kind of giesh I suppose if 84 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: you're trying to draw someone across from the public service 85 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: into the private sector. So it's a difficulty in that way. 86 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: But then you know, you think to yourself, goodness, may 87 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: I don't get that much leave every year, you know, 88 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 1: I do a lucky. 89 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 2: You, although they catch me and that is that I 90 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: have to work every public holidays. Ye well, which is 91 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: fair enough. Yeah well, and this. 92 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: Is the thing. But I think from you know, from 93 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: the perspective as well of a lot of those that 94 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: work in the private sector. They've been so heavily hit 95 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: over the last couple of years as a result of COVID. 96 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: You know, they've had their hours reduced, they've had various 97 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: different things that they've had to deal with. You know, 98 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: you've got those let's like we've spoken about earlier this morning. 99 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: We spoke to Daniel Rotchford from Tourism in Central Australia 100 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: talking about some of those businesses barely able to open 101 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: their doors right now and barely able to continue on. 102 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: And then you've sort of got public servants getting an 103 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: additional for three days of leave. 104 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 2: It. 105 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: I guess it's just that disparity, you know, within the community. 106 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. True, And you know you're going to remember the 107 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 2: reason that this restriction on pay rise was putting place 108 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: in the first place, because of concern about our growing debt. 109 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: At the time, that debt was at about five billion dollars. 110 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: Now it's just more than nine billion dollars. But that's 111 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 2: the issue, and that's one of the questions I have 112 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 2: about what's happening is these negotiations, is that all of 113 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 2: these things that have been offered, the extra leave, et cetera, 114 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 2: once they're put in place, there'll be no winding that back, 115 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: not like you know in four years time when an 116 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: extragotiations come around or say oh, okay, well now we're 117 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 2: going to give you two and a half percent pay 118 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: rode the year, but we're going to take those three 119 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: days an once they're Once they're in, I think they're 120 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 2: in forever. So you know, I think that there needs 121 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 2: to be a little bit of caution about how these 122 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: negotiations go. I think there's another point that I was making. 123 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,840 Speaker 2: You know, whatever these sort of issues are raised, there's 124 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: always that question comes up, well what about you know, 125 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 2: what about the police, what about the nurses? And I 126 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 2: think there's a valid argument. So I say that nurses 127 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 2: and police, particularly given how they've had to work during 128 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 2: the pandemic, you know, should perhaps be exempt from the 129 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: pay frees. I spoke to Katatcha earlier this week from 130 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: the Australian Nursing the Refederation and they spoken several times, 131 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 2: and you know, she was raising the issue that Nancy's 132 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 2: pay frees is applied to nurses. There could be a 133 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: situation where the stuff shortage that we've got at the moment, 134 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: it's even worse in twelve months time. And you do 135 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 2: have to remember that, you know, nurses in the Northern Territory, 136 00:06:58,839 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 2: you know, work a lot harder. 137 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Well, this is the thing, you know, And that's right. 138 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,359 Speaker 1: She was talking to us about the patient care of ratio. 139 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: I think it is and how here in the Northern Territory, 140 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, the number of patients that a nurse has 141 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: to care for on a shift is much greater than 142 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: what it is if you're working in another state. So yeah, 143 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: I agree with you. You know, when you're talking about 144 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: those frontline workers, I can understand, you know, why they 145 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: need a pay increase. Even when you talk about the police. 146 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: Their jobs have changed so much over the last couple 147 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: of years, dealing with COVID and with their every day 148 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: things that they would usually be dealing with. So I 149 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: do think that there is certainly, you know, some room 150 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: for adjustment. I suppose you'd say. 151 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and it will be interesting to see where 152 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: these graduations go. I think they've got a fair a 153 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 2: bit of work there before they get it over the line, 154 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: because there's quite a bit of anger I think within 155 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: the public service and from the unions about this prospect 156 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: of the paper eason. It seems to me that they're 157 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: going to plant. 158 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you know, I've got a message that's 159 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: just come through here. Every single one of my best 160 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: workers I've lost to public service jobs. Their reasons are 161 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: much more paid holiday slash six slash, family stretch slash, 162 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: stress leave, easier work in air conditioning, a job for 163 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: life where they feel that they can never be sacked, 164 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: and paid maternity leave. That's one of the messages that's 165 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 1: come through this morning. 166 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that you say that, Katie. A couple 167 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: of the other things that are being offered. One is 168 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: no involuntary redundanty, which fits there as well, And another 169 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 2: one is the doubling of superannuation for women on maternity lead, 170 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: which I don't actually think is a bad thing. I think, yeah, 171 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: you know, women they obviously take time off work for children, 172 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: et cetera, and then end up in a sort of 173 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: inferior position office men when it comes to superannuations. I 174 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:51,719 Speaker 2: think a lot of people would be on board with that, 175 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: but you do have to feel for the private sector. 176 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 2: And if you go and read the Angle report, that's 177 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: one of the key issues in raises when it talks 178 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: about public chector use that disparity with the private checker 179 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: and how much more difficult it's making for the private 180 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: checker to attract and retainment. 181 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and this person signed off by saying my 182 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: staff were paid more than me. I cannot compete with 183 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: the government perks, you know, like that's the thing. 184 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 2: For some people. 185 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: It's bloody hard. Oh well, it's an interesting one, Matt Cunningham. 186 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: We will have to leave it there. Are we going 187 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: to see you tomorrow for the week? That was? 188 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff mate. 189 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: Well we'll catch you tomorrow morning, thanks Matte. Yeah, that's 190 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham there from Sky News.