Speaker 1: When being funny is your job, how can you turn
Speaker 1: it on like a tap? And by the way, you
Speaker 1: only have an hour set aside to prep then it'll
Speaker 1: be filmed tomorrow and airs on TV soon after. And
Speaker 1: before any of this has happened, you've had to wake
Speaker 1: up at three thirty am, pack yourself some lunch, and
Speaker 1: ride your bike to work and host two and a
Speaker 1: half hours of breakfast radio. This is the new life
Speaker 1: of Sammy Jane, who were used to seeing on stages
Speaker 1: around the world next to a puppet, a purple puppet
Speaker 1: named Randy. Gone are the days where Sammy j McMillan
Speaker 1: had all day to sit around writing comedy songs before
Speaker 1: heading into town to perform at night. Now his success
Speaker 1: means that he has many bosses and demands on his
Speaker 1: time and he has to manage his creativity to deliver
Speaker 1: it within very streat time limits. So how does he
Speaker 1: structure his day around something that is so unstructured and
Speaker 1: spontaneous And what's the checklist that he uses to make
Speaker 1: sure he has the energy to get through the week.
Speaker 1: My name is doctor Romantha imbat I'm an organizational psychologist
Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral Science consultancy Inventium and this
Speaker 1: is how I work, a show about how to help
Speaker 1: you do your best work. For the past year, Sammy
Speaker 1: has been working two full time jobs, presenting early morning
Speaker 1: radio five days a week on ABC Melbourne, as well
Speaker 1: as writing and performing comedy on TV. So let's learn
Speaker 1: about how Sammy actually structures his days.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: At the moment in my life, I've got a job
Speaker 3: which I've never had before, so that gives me some
Speaker 3: inbuilt structure in that I have to turn up to
Speaker 3: a workplace or I will be fired, and that helps.
Speaker 3: But the specific turning out time is the sole point.
Speaker 3: Because I'm working in breakfast radio. I'm in Melbourne, Australia.
Speaker 3: Started last year at twenty twenty, I started hosting the
Speaker 3: breakfast Radio show which goes from five point thirty in
Speaker 3: the morning till eight o'clock on ABC Local Radio. That
Speaker 3: means I have to be in the office at four thirty,
Speaker 3: an hour before showtime, and that means I have to
Speaker 3: get up at a quarter to four each morning. So
Speaker 3: that's the brutal part. But having got up out of bed,
Speaker 3: you know, I then get myself to the office and
Speaker 3: I do my show and so five days a week. Now,
Speaker 3: I do have an inbuilt structure where I have to
Speaker 3: be somewhere there are other people around, which as someone
Speaker 3: I've previously come from a life of comedy, so my
Speaker 3: schedule has normally been entirely in my own hands. But
Speaker 3: I guess this structure helps in that I have accountability
Speaker 3: and obligations in around that. I also write and produce
Speaker 3: a weekly TV spot for ABC, which is a satirical
Speaker 3: spot based on the news of the week, and that
Speaker 3: goes out nationally each week. I write that with my
Speaker 3: co writers on a Monday, and we refine it on Tuesday,
Speaker 3: and we film it on a Wednesday, so that all
Speaker 3: takes place after the radio show. So that is a
Speaker 3: very bird's eye view of the schedule, Amountha. But I
Speaker 3: will let you probe me further if you wish. But
Speaker 3: I don't want to be one of those guys who
Speaker 3: then talks like an hour and then you're like, no,
Speaker 3: I just wanted a really quick response.
Speaker 1: That's right, thank you, yes, because those guests are always
Speaker 1: delightful to manage. So you're getting up a quarter to four,
Speaker 1: how then do you think about the back half of
Speaker 1: your day? Because you're not really wanting to be up
Speaker 1: until midnight doing stuff or writing. So how does it
Speaker 1: work when you clock off? So to speak from breakfast radio?
Speaker 1: But you still got all these other commitments took me
Speaker 1: through that.
Speaker 2: I'll go really micro right now.
Speaker 3: Like two hours ago, I fell asleep sitting up at
Speaker 3: my desk and woke myself by snoring, and I'd accidentally
Speaker 3: typed something on the keyboard, which we all been marveled at,
Speaker 3: like it was my subconscious.
Speaker 2: The word was ft like a million ease. That's not regular,
Speaker 2: but that's I.
Speaker 3: As to your other guests amount that, I'm assuming you've
Speaker 3: had some like high profile like big hitters Forbes rich List, and.
Speaker 2: They all have got their shit together. They know what's
Speaker 2: going on. So I'm not going to be one of
Speaker 2: those skits. I've got more. I'm coming seeking for help
Speaker 2: and advice.
Speaker 3: Really, last year, I basically to answer that question, I
Speaker 3: didn't have a good sense of my schedule, and I
Speaker 3: was still working off and at five o'clock on any day,
Speaker 3: which meant I've been going.
Speaker 2: For thirteen hours.
Speaker 3: And I've also got two young kids, and so it
Speaker 3: was just completely unsustainable. So this year I did come
Speaker 3: in as a sort of goal driven guy. Maybe I
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, what do I want to get out
Speaker 3: of this year? And really the main thing for me
Speaker 3: is I want to stop working it about two o'clock
Speaker 3: each day, because that.
Speaker 2: Would mean I'll have done about eight or nine hours
Speaker 2: and at two o'clock.
Speaker 3: Bearing in mind that's sort of my mentally, that's my
Speaker 3: five or six o'clock in the evening. So if I
Speaker 3: don't switch up down, I'm simply not going to have
Speaker 3: time to unwind or see people before I have to
Speaker 3: get to bed at eight or eight thirty each night.
Speaker 2: So that's my approach to the day. Now.
Speaker 3: It's very much a work in progress because there's always
Speaker 3: things to do. Well, there's always more you can do,
Speaker 3: of course in life, and so really trying to focus
Speaker 3: hat on what's the job I have to do today
Speaker 3: and when is enough?
Speaker 1: So how do you clock off at two in the afternoon,
Speaker 1: because everybody else in the world is like, hang on, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: We've still got half a work day.
Speaker 3: Well, there's a bit of management of expectations, I think,
Speaker 3: because I'm generally I've always pride of myself, I'm being
Speaker 3: pretty responsive communication wise. It's like I can't if I've
Speaker 3: got an unread text message or a message I haven't
Speaker 3: responded to from anyone that'll give me low level anxiety
Speaker 3: until I've sort of tiped that off and I am
Speaker 3: trying to get much better at going No, it's okay
Speaker 3: to step away, it's okay to leave people hanging a
Speaker 3: little bit, and as far as the six of the
Speaker 3: day goes, I think that's part of me communicating to
Speaker 3: my different teams, whether it's my radio team or or
Speaker 3: my TV team, that I'm not going to be around
Speaker 3: after two o'clock, or that they can text me or
Speaker 3: amout me, but I might not get back to them,
Speaker 3: and of course I probably still do, so I need
Speaker 3: to get better at training them that that's not the thing.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's an interesting rule, so don't expect a response
Speaker 1: after two.
Speaker 2: Which it's very specific to my job.
Speaker 3: Like obviously, I think the challenge for most people who
Speaker 3: are working hard, like everyone in the world, is the
Speaker 3: nighttime routine I reckon.
Speaker 2: Like until last year, I was a night owl.
Speaker 3: I performed at night, I worked at night on off
Speaker 3: and wrote things at night, So it would be getting
Speaker 3: into bed at one o'clock or something that would be
Speaker 3: my challenge it's the opposite. Now I'm productive in the
Speaker 3: morning because that's my current job. I think it's slightly
Speaker 3: lonely in that sense that even if I'm functioning, or
Speaker 3: I'm around, or I've been to meetings at three or
Speaker 3: four o'clock in the afternoon, people just go, okay, Sam,
Speaker 3: you see, that's fine. But mentally it's really can become
Speaker 3: quite a fog. And I'm getting better at I think
Speaker 3: sticking up for myself or at least explaining that I'm
Speaker 3: operating on a different and less pleasurable plane at that
Speaker 3: time of day.
Speaker 1: And how have you trained yourself to go from a
Speaker 1: night owl to essentially a morning person?
Speaker 2: Like any job, you do jump into it.
Speaker 3: So I trained myself simply by sitting the alarm, and
Speaker 3: it was as brutal as any early rises. No, I
Speaker 3: mean three point thirty that as an alarm is almost
Speaker 3: a late night rather than morning.
Speaker 2: That's how someone.
Speaker 3: But you know, it's a body clock thing, and it
Speaker 3: actually I've adjusted to it pretty well.
Speaker 2: I have to be really careful. I think about my I.
Speaker 3: Never drink during the week, for example, because I'll just
Speaker 3: get a headache the next day and that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And I try and ride my bike into work, which
Speaker 3: sounds like I'm some sort of tony appt alpha male,
Speaker 3: which is not me. If anyone is picturing that, I'm
Speaker 3: a skinny bird like chicken man like struggling my way
Speaker 3: to work. But it means that I've built in some
Speaker 3: exercise to the day, for example. So it's all these
Speaker 3: little practical things that I've managed to make it work.
Speaker 3: But I'm aware that it's a fine balance and it
Speaker 3: can easily come part.
Speaker 1: Do you have routines at night to help, I guess,
Speaker 1: train yourself that hang on even though a lot of
Speaker 1: the world might be out or being social right now,
Speaker 1: I need to get to bed in order to have
Speaker 1: enough sleep to wake up at an ungodly hour.
Speaker 3: I think in terms of how my week breakdowns, and
Speaker 3: this includes the nights. It's very much basics for me,
Speaker 3: which I've never had to get my head around as
Speaker 3: much in the past, and I do now because as
Speaker 3: I just said, like otherwise, I know that it'll you know,
Speaker 3: there's nothing worse than being on radio and feeling hungover
Speaker 3: or exhausted or miserable.
Speaker 2: So for me, it's the regular exercise thing.
Speaker 3: It is getting to bed on time, and I, you know,
Speaker 3: try and routine wise, I'll physically I'll go down, I'll
Speaker 3: close the door, I'll have a shower, and prepare my
Speaker 3: bag for the next day, really practical things that I know
Speaker 3: I'm not going to want to think about the next day.
Speaker 3: I'll put a banana in my bag for like all
Speaker 3: that sort of stuff and the things that I just
Speaker 3: don't want my brain space to be taken up with
Speaker 3: in the morning.
Speaker 2: And also just making sure I'm prepared. So on radio,
Speaker 2: you know, each day.
Speaker 3: It is a show, I'm interviewing lots of different people
Speaker 3: and that sort of thing, and trying to be across
Speaker 3: the basic stories that we're planning to do the next day,
Speaker 3: all those little things that.
Speaker 2: Just take a bit of pressure off the following morning.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's nice.
Speaker 3: At least I feel like every second week I might
Speaker 3: get to the end and be exhausted or something didn't
Speaker 3: go right. But at least I feel like I have
Speaker 3: a better checklist now than I ever had of what
Speaker 3: variables exist, so I can go Last week, I had
Speaker 3: a bad one a man, for I was just like
Speaker 3: from behind the whole time, I was not quite present,
Speaker 3: and I got to the end of the week and
Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, what happened this week? Well, I didn't
Speaker 3: run a bike once any day. I've got a bit
Speaker 3: lazy with that, so that's one factor.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I did have a beer one night, so that wouldn't
Speaker 3: have helped little specific things. And I also moved house,
Speaker 3: which I realized, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: That's that's pretty stressful.
Speaker 1: That's pretty big.
Speaker 2: And I think it was someone else who pointed that
Speaker 2: out to me.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is a really hard week,
Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, but you just did I think, don't.
Speaker 3: They say moving house is like one of the most
Speaker 3: stressful thing you do in life. So yes, yes, I
Speaker 3: was getting too focused on my little checklist without realizing
Speaker 3: there was the biggest thing at play.
Speaker 1: That's right, too worried about packing that banana. So tell
Speaker 1: me more about this checklist. So is this like an
Speaker 1: actual checklist or a metaphorical checklist?
Speaker 2: Tell me about it.
Speaker 3: Well, it's metaphorically that it's just a mental one now.
Speaker 3: But I found it super handy and I think it's
Speaker 3: something I should have paid.
Speaker 2: Far more attention to in the past.
Speaker 3: I don't know if this is the appropriate stage to
Speaker 3: wine the clock back and man through in our check
Speaker 3: because I don't want to, you know, drag it down
Speaker 3: a time walk too soon. But my whole career in
Speaker 3: life has been a self appointed comedian. I've done live shows,
Speaker 3: and I think my primary skill and my primary work
Speaker 3: has always been doing live shows. And what I've been
Speaker 3: by that is working at comedy festivals. So I live
Speaker 3: in Melbourne, so anyone who is listening from Melbourne knows
Speaker 3: that the Melbourne Comedy Festival is a huge event here.
Speaker 3: It takes over the streets every year. And then the
Speaker 3: other two biggest festivals in the world of Montreal and
Speaker 3: the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. So over the past fifteen years,
Speaker 3: that's been my sort of life, bouncing between those festivals
Speaker 3: as well as smaller ones doing life work. In the
Speaker 3: last five or ten years, I've gravitated more towards TV,
Speaker 3: but in almost all of that work, and I've always
Speaker 3: been prone to stress and wanting to get things done,
Speaker 3: and I've always been pretty productive and focused, but it's
Speaker 3: often bubbled over, certainly not in any really serious way.
Speaker 2: But I look back now and go, yeah, I reckon.
Speaker 3: That stress slash low level anxiety and things has always
Speaker 3: been bubbling away down. I could have been far more
Speaker 3: proactive in addressing that. And I think that's what this
Speaker 3: little checklist does for me.
Speaker 2: Now I'm able to go.
Speaker 3: There will always be some stressful weeks or weeks were
Speaker 3: just feeling down on yourself because you didn't achieve what
Speaker 3: you wanted to and so on, but I'm able to go.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yep, look you die.
Speaker 3: Look at your drinking, look at your exercise, Look you're planning,
Speaker 3: and most importantly for me, look at what things you
Speaker 3: said yes to that you should not.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a big hangover.
Speaker 3: From being a self employed artist for fifteen years, because
Speaker 3: I spent my whole life training myself to say yes
Speaker 3: to absolutely everything, because it's a famine or feast thing.
Speaker 2: When you're at you do have to take the work.
Speaker 3: I'm suddenly in a position where I have two stable
Speaker 3: jobs with my radio and my TV work, and it's
Speaker 3: a real challenge to learn to say no to requests
Speaker 3: because basically I'm now at the point where capacity wise,
Speaker 3: as per the day I just described to you, if
Speaker 3: I say yes to a gig or a job or something,
Speaker 3: it's really taking time away from my family and my ability.
Speaker 2: To to not die, which is a goal. Who's another
Speaker 2: goal on my checklist? Did I die today?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I'm going all right.
Speaker 1: It's been a successful day, like you know, set the filelow.
Speaker 1: So with that, this idea is saying this and saying no.
Speaker 1: I once heard someone say that the number one productivity
Speaker 1: tip that they could give to anyone and is to
Speaker 1: say no more often. And I want to know, for
Speaker 1: someone that has not been used to saying no, what
Speaker 1: have you learned about how to say no? Well?
Speaker 2: Oh, that is a great question, and I'm still learning.
Speaker 3: I think the phrase over committed is a great phrase
Speaker 3: to use, not just because it's easy to say, but
Speaker 3: it's actually completely truthful, and because I have a huge habit,
Speaker 3: Amantha of if someone says, you know, text me or
Speaker 3: emails and says what you do this, and I will
Speaker 3: spend twenty minutes composing the reply and giving really specific,
Speaker 3: detailed analysis and an essay on why I would love
Speaker 3: to but here's why I can't. But maybe next time
Speaker 3: get back to me. Like I've just lost more time
Speaker 3: than often the task would have taken just to do. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I have a managers in terms of my
Speaker 3: comedy and my work and everything. Who I've worked with
Speaker 3: for ten years now, but I'm definitely relying on them,
Speaker 3: leaning on them more often now to be able to
Speaker 3: ford an email really quickly and say please decline with
Speaker 3: my thanks, you know that sort of language, which, again,
Speaker 3: it's a very privileged position to be and so I'm
Speaker 3: really aware of that. But on a personal level, I've
Speaker 3: always felt that I want to help people when I can,
Speaker 3: and professionally, when you get to a point where my
Speaker 3: appearance in a show or something would help someone, I
Speaker 3: really want.
Speaker 2: To be able to do that.
Speaker 3: But equally, I have to remind myself back to what
Speaker 3: we were talking about about.
Speaker 2: I have a family and I need to see them
Speaker 2: and leave time for so.
Speaker 3: I think honesty is great, but also as far as
Speaker 3: the advice and learning about saying no, you don't.
Speaker 2: Have to be a completely open book.
Speaker 3: It's that you're allowed to have a bit of personal
Speaker 3: reasons as to why you don't want to do something,
Speaker 3: and if you're not just known as a general asshole,
Speaker 3: then you can expect people to understand. I think I would.
Speaker 3: Sometimes my mind will go to the worst case scenario
Speaker 3: where they think that I'm a monster for saying no
Speaker 3: to something, when actually they might just go fair enough,
Speaker 3: you can't do it, They'll move on with their day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so easy to overthink, isn't it. I do
Speaker 1: like the idea of delegating saying no. That is very
Speaker 1: helpful something I do because I say no a lot
Speaker 1: because I used to be a yes person and that
Speaker 1: just got me into chaos in very busy days. But
Speaker 1: I have a templated response for saying no for some
Speaker 1: of the more common requests that I get, and I
Speaker 1: find that for me, that takes the emotion out of
Speaker 1: it and it makes me feel less stressed about saying no.
Speaker 3: They adjusted though we're throwing one little personal line at
Speaker 3: the top, or do you make a point of not
Speaker 3: doing that, because then you start getting creative about it.
Speaker 1: Then I start falling into your problem of like taking
Speaker 1: so long to respond that I should.
Speaker 2: Have just done the time of bus What are the
Speaker 2: buzzwords in your template?
Speaker 1: So firstly acknowledge that I'm flattered that they would think
Speaker 1: of me. Like, for example, something I say no to
Speaker 1: a lot is I get a lot of pitches for
Speaker 1: people wanting to be on the podcast or pr folk
Speaker 1: wanting to get their clients on the show, And so
Speaker 1: I certainly thank them for thinking of how I work,
Speaker 1: because that's lovely. I give a reason, which is that
Speaker 1: the schedule's full, which it generally is a few months
Speaker 1: in advance, and then I'll wish them luck with whatever
Speaker 1: they're doing. So they're the three key ingredients. And the
Speaker 1: other thing that I think is really important, because I
Speaker 1: know it really shits me when I ask for something
Speaker 1: and it doesn't happen is just a quick no, quick note.
Speaker 1: I think can feel a bit vicious, but I actually
Speaker 1: think being on the receiving end of quick notes and
Speaker 1: slow nose, the quick notes are so much better because
Speaker 1: you can move on and just oh, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: it's not personal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I see I've got like emails right now
Speaker 3: and you box with flags on them because I wanted
Speaker 3: to give it a week before I said no, And
Speaker 3: you've just clarify for me that that's who's.
Speaker 2: That helping like it's it's it hangs over me, hangs
Speaker 2: over them. It's it's no good.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I reckon the slow no comes
Speaker 1: from you almost want to make it look as if
Speaker 1: it was a really tough decision. Should I say yes,
Speaker 1: should I say no? I'm stewing over it for a week.
Speaker 1: That's how big a decision it is. But that's not
Speaker 1: helping anyone. Now. I read that when you're presenting radio
Speaker 1: you started standing up. Why are you doing that?
Speaker 3: When I started the job startup last year, and I
Speaker 3: just had a view in my mind. ABC Radio is
Speaker 3: in Australia, it's very well known, it's very well trusted
Speaker 3: and respected by some, and so it's got a certain
Speaker 3: mature and you know, intelligent sort of aura, and in
Speaker 3: my head that the presenters I always listened to on
Speaker 3: the were just mature people who were sitting down and
Speaker 3: just talking maturely about things. And I tried that for
Speaker 3: the first week and I was listening back, I could
Speaker 3: hear myself. I was like, you're not really being you're
Speaker 3: being You're doing an impersonation. And because I do do
Speaker 3: impersonations in my comedy, perhaps that's one of my go
Speaker 3: to tools. But I was impersonating and what I thought
Speaker 3: I roundio presentation should be. So I was very much like, oh,
Speaker 3: good morning Melbourne, it's ABC Radio.
Speaker 2: You're with Sammy Jay and it just wasn't me.
Speaker 3: And then I discovered there's a button on the desk
Speaker 3: in the studio, which it's like an arrow up and down.
Speaker 3: I don't know when it told me about it, but
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I pushed it at the whole desk,
Speaker 3: like hydraulically lifts up really spectacularly. So I did a
Speaker 3: whole show standing up, and people commented they could hear
Speaker 3: my energy Chaine straight away, because I'm now every show,
Speaker 3: I jump around and I pace and strutton and my
Speaker 3: arms are flating around and it's still, you know, not
Speaker 3: that I'm switched to a complete vaudeville show, but it's
Speaker 3: absolutely lets me.
Speaker 2: Have more fun when I want to have more fun
Speaker 2: and when it's appropriate.
Speaker 3: And for me, it's purely just tapping into I think,
Speaker 3: what I what I already do, which is standing on
Speaker 3: stage talking to people. And when I was sitting, I
Speaker 3: was not embodying or accessing any part of that part
Speaker 3: of me. But standing up feels just more like what
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: Now. That's not saying that what I do is a
Speaker 2: complete crap, but at least it's authentic crap.
Speaker 1: At least. And you are you standing right now as
Speaker 1: we're recording Should I?
Speaker 2: Should I stand now for a while and see.
Speaker 1: Let's let's do that and see if I see.
Speaker 2: I did the same thing you just point.
Speaker 3: I realized that I'm doing a business podcast with them,
Speaker 3: all I should I should, That's right, Okay.
Speaker 1: You need to be very serious now. Now that's interesting
Speaker 1: about this idea of being more you, particularly when you're
Speaker 1: someone that is used to adopting a character or a persona.
Speaker 1: So with the radio work, what were the steps that
Speaker 1: you took, aside from pressing a button to raise a desk,
Speaker 1: to be more you and get out of that ABC
Speaker 1: presenter persona.
Speaker 3: It's the biggest question I have for myself at the moment,
Speaker 3: because it's an ongoing thing and the job came up
Speaker 3: unexpct for me.
Speaker 2: I was asked to fill in.
Speaker 3: Briefly, I didn't know that there was soon be an
Speaker 3: opening and sort of thing as radio people come and
Speaker 3: going radio constantly, and so it'll be me on the
Speaker 3: way out at some point.
Speaker 2: But when I was.
Speaker 3: Offered the role, I really was completely unsure, Like it
Speaker 3: wasn't something I jumped in straight away. I really I
Speaker 3: did the whole full waiting to say yes or no.
Speaker 3: I made them as we just discussed, But because my
Speaker 3: whole career has been spent yet Sammy Jay is a
Speaker 3: nickname and a character name like I've used it as
Speaker 3: a fictional character and in a musical comedy duo with
Speaker 3: Randy the puppett I've used it as myself when I
Speaker 3: MC events and things.
Speaker 2: But it's this changeable thing.
Speaker 3: But on radio, I think there's a metaphorical contract where
Speaker 3: where you're expected to bring yourself there. You can't just
Speaker 3: be up pretending to be someone all day, and you
Speaker 3: have to bring a bit of yourself into it. And
Speaker 3: that's been a big learning curve for me getting comfortable
Speaker 3: with that, and I think I am now much further
Speaker 3: along than I was when I started in the job.
Speaker 3: But it all comes back to complete fear for me,
Speaker 3: as perhaps it does for everyone in any job you did.
Speaker 2: I was afraid of being shown up to be stupid
Speaker 2: or or.
Speaker 3: Arrogant, or vulnerable or all the things that we don't
Speaker 3: like about ourselves. And when you're speaking every morning, five
Speaker 3: days a week to hundreds of thousands of people, that
Speaker 3: fear is intense. But like any job, it's now something
Speaker 3: which I can switch on at five point thirty and
Speaker 3: talk and not be too worried about what's coming out
Speaker 3: of my mouth. Because I've learned that if I can
Speaker 3: talk to you personally, or I can talk people in
Speaker 3: a room and I don't come off as some big
Speaker 3: racist to beget, then maybe I can do that on regular
Speaker 3: you know, because the fear is huge in the media
Speaker 3: and instance day and age. You know, we all know
Speaker 3: you're on this step away from being canceled or whatever.
Speaker 3: So that's all there. But I think in being myself
Speaker 3: who is I'm a fairly vulnerable sort of poking my
Speaker 3: head over the parap sort of guy. Anyway, That's been
Speaker 3: I think my secret weapon, because I'm normally the first
Speaker 3: person to make the joke about myself than others to
Speaker 3: acknowledge hopefully where there's blind spots or places to improve.
Speaker 3: I try to do that as much as I can
Speaker 3: on radio, so that people aren't threatened by me, and
Speaker 3: then perhaps they don't want to attack me as viciously.
Speaker 1: What is that feedback loop like for yourself? Do you
Speaker 1: have a proces for reviewing or analyzing or critiquing your
Speaker 1: performance on radio?
Speaker 2: There is a very structured process for that. At ABC.
Speaker 3: There's internal air checks they call them, where you all
Speaker 3: gather together and listening back and then as a team
Speaker 3: you work on the show, and you're always coming up
Speaker 3: with new segments or discussing guests and things. So that's there,
Speaker 3: and I sort of trust that process pretty well because
Speaker 3: I still feel like I'm very much learning, I'm still
Speaker 3: very much the new kids, So there's never been a
Speaker 3: note given to me where I haven't agreed with it.
Speaker 3: Like if someone says how you're talking too fast, or hey,
Speaker 3: that was a really bad question you could have asked
Speaker 3: like this, I'm always like yeah, totally like so I
Speaker 3: really find.
Speaker 2: That actually helpful.
Speaker 3: There's a more blunt feedback tool which is called the ratings,
Speaker 3: and in fact, you know, they actually just came out
Speaker 3: like an hour ago, so I think there's a whole now,
Speaker 3: Like in the paper later today, I will be mentioned
Speaker 3: with regards to my ratings and things. But having been
Speaker 3: through the TV and live work, you get fairly used
Speaker 3: to the up and down all that stuff as well,
Speaker 3: So not as affected by that as I think some
Speaker 3: people thought I would be.
Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting about the work that you do,
Speaker 1: that the feedback is so public, certainly with something as objective,
Speaker 1: if you like, as ratings, through to social media and
Speaker 1: the feedback loop there through all the work that you've
Speaker 1: been doing in your career. How have you learned not
Speaker 1: to let it just completely destroy you and self confidence?
Speaker 1: What are the strategies that you've learned over the years.
Speaker 3: Gee, well, I mean I think back to the first
Speaker 3: like bad comedy review I get I got like years ago,
Speaker 3: and it does destroy you like anyone, likely in the
Speaker 3: normal workplace. Perhaps that's the equivalent of a workplace.
Speaker 2: Review or something.
Speaker 3: But having your name published in the newspapers, someone giving
Speaker 3: you two stars and saying, oh, it's just rubbish.
Speaker 2: It can cripple you. But I think in the comedy
Speaker 2: and in the.
Speaker 3: Arts or in general, they're the bits that make you,
Speaker 3: and they're the bits where and if you headed to
Speaker 3: any open mic comedy night or musicians night, you're going
Speaker 3: to find let's say ten performers in their early twenties,
Speaker 3: eight or nine of them will probably not continue that
Speaker 3: as a job. And I think part of that will
Speaker 3: be because of the feedback is the audience weren't kind
Speaker 3: to them more because they.
Speaker 2: Had a bad review and it was a bit of fun.
Speaker 3: But then they move on and get stable jobs, which
Speaker 3: I have so much respect for because I don't think
Speaker 3: we're built as humans to I don't really like the
Speaker 3: idea that we have to become hard in ourselves or
Speaker 3: become completely oblievi's to what people think in order to succeed,
Speaker 3: because I think that's just not a natural statement. We
Speaker 3: all want to be liked and we all want to
Speaker 3: be complimented rather than torn down. However, creatively, it took
Speaker 3: me a long time. I think success didn't come to
Speaker 3: me like really quickly. It's been a very slow sort
Speaker 3: of progress for me career wise, and along the way
Speaker 3: for me was always about finding my voice, finding what
Speaker 3: I found funny, being true to that, and that really
Speaker 3: helped so much with reviews and things. Because when I
Speaker 3: got a good review for like my live shows, and
Speaker 3: it was a show I really worked hard on and
Speaker 3: I was proud of it, I was really it was
Speaker 3: really satisfying. But we've had a bad review again, either
Speaker 3: I agree with some of the points, I was like,
Speaker 3: you know, that's fair enough, or it was someone who
Speaker 3: just didn't like me, and that I really got to
Speaker 3: the point where I think that that's okay as well,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not here, none of us are here to
Speaker 3: try and please everyone in the world. Then that's just
Speaker 3: a recipe for disaster, and I think creatively and I
Speaker 3: talk about this with younger comedians if they ever want
Speaker 3: to know a bit more about the industry or my
Speaker 3: take on it, But I sort of say, well, you
Speaker 3: have to decide you're trying to do things that you enjoy,
Speaker 3: or you're trying to do things just for other people.
Speaker 3: And if you want to other people, you can, you know,
Speaker 3: make as meny dick jokes as you want, or pub
Speaker 3: jokes that aren't appropriate or whatever, and you can please
Speaker 3: lots of people, but you probably won't be necessarily happy
Speaker 3: with that. But if you're doing what you want to do,
Speaker 3: then whether or not there's an audience for that is
Speaker 3: to an extent.
Speaker 2: Out of your hands.
Speaker 3: You're just trying to find the audience to share your
Speaker 3: sense of humor. And then to the extent that it
Speaker 3: is in your hands, I think that takes up ninety
Speaker 3: percent of your work because very much, for me, comedy
Speaker 3: has been a business and it's about really aggressively finding
Speaker 3: that audience and being clever about how you market yourself.
Speaker 3: And I don't say that with any synthesis and whatsoever.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that most artists who have made a
Speaker 3: living have had to become by default business people in
Speaker 3: order to achieve that. Wow, that was a really long answer,
Speaker 3: like I went all over the place an sorry, mat.
Speaker 1: That's why we edit things, but I probably won't edit that.
Speaker 1: So you make it sound really really simple, like don't
Speaker 1: try to expect that everyone will love you. Find your
Speaker 1: kind of crowd. But I imagine that that was a
Speaker 1: pretty hard lesson to learn, Like was there a turning
Speaker 1: point where you perhaps knew that intellectually but you then
Speaker 1: started to internalize that.
Speaker 3: I think there was, and I think it was to
Speaker 3: do with maturity, As lame as that sounds, but I
Speaker 3: look back and my first gigs singing songs standing up
Speaker 3: at a keyboard in pubs around Melbourne. Half that material,
Speaker 3: it was still proud of, in that I was doing
Speaker 3: interesting songs or coming up with interesting comedy ideas that
Speaker 3: were a bit original, And the other half was just
Speaker 3: some shocking stuff that was variously probably racist or misogynisic
Speaker 3: or sexits and take your pick, like in terms of
Speaker 3: just as a young image would do trying to make
Speaker 3: people laugh. And I think I also really put up
Speaker 3: quite a confronting facade of really trying to be an edgy,
Speaker 3: sort of smart on stage because I saw that was
Speaker 3: how other people were doing it, and that was never
Speaker 3: actually me. I was much more yeh, the sort of
Speaker 3: almost shy nerd type. And I look back maybe the
Speaker 3: last five years or so, when I've had more success
Speaker 3: in some ways, I think that has been because of
Speaker 3: that human element to what I do. Like I much
Speaker 3: more work on bringing my own stories, Like there'll be
Speaker 3: personal elements to my songs that I right now which
Speaker 3: I never would have used to approach because I would
Speaker 3: have thought it was too small zerials and it didn't
Speaker 3: have enough jokes. But I now have learned that being
Speaker 3: more myself, even if myself is not as funny as
Speaker 3: that most comedians at least, I think there's a personal
Speaker 3: connection there which I can achieve, and I've learned to
Speaker 3: embrace that far more. So that's not really a lesson
Speaker 3: for anyone else. It's probably less than being more true
Speaker 3: to yourself. So for me, that was being more true
Speaker 3: to myself.
Speaker 1: Hey, there, it's nearly time for a little ad break.
Speaker 1: But can I ask a favor of you? If you're
Speaker 1: enjoying how I work, I would be so grateful if
Speaker 1: you could hit pause on the show and pop into
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to this from and
Speaker 1: leave a review. You can do this by scrolling to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the show notes and clinging on the
Speaker 1: stars or writing a comment. And aside from the warm,
Speaker 1: fuzzy feelings that this will give both you and me,
Speaker 1: it helps other people find out about how I work.
Speaker 1: So thank you in advance. Okay, Sammy Jay will be
Speaker 1: back after this short break and we'll be talking about
Speaker 1: how he overcomes writer's block on the topic of writing
Speaker 1: things that are funny. I imagine that you must have
Speaker 1: experienced writer's block many, many times. What are your strategies
Speaker 1: for overcoming that.
Speaker 3: I think I've helped a lot of the moment with
Speaker 3: the weekly TV spot by two things, and that is
Speaker 3: why I write it with two co writers, so good friends,
Speaker 3: Chris but Donald and James Pender. So every Monday we
Speaker 3: get together online in different states and we talk about
Speaker 3: the news, we see what you know, what we find interesting,
Speaker 3: and what we find funny, and we throw things around.
Speaker 3: So obviously that's a huge help having someone to collaborate with,
Speaker 3: and I've always loved collaborating on whenever I'm writing, it's
Speaker 3: far less lonely, and secondly, for us, it's the deadline.
Speaker 3: We then have to submit a script by Wednesday morning,
Speaker 3: because I obviously needed to run past the lawyers, and
Speaker 3: then they needed for production, and then we need.
Speaker 2: To film it.
Speaker 3: And so if I could take this week as an example,
Speaker 3: we're doing a Royal family yoga sketch and that was
Speaker 3: still being written while I was sitting in the makeup chair.
Speaker 2: Like I was, there were talking through different moves like
Speaker 2: is in bred Corgi an appropriate yoga move? Who knows?
Speaker 3: We'll find out that the regularity of that is so helpful,
Speaker 3: as I'm sure the listeners will appreciate. Like you know,
Speaker 3: there's nothing like a deadline, and you get to the
Speaker 3: point where you can't overthink it. Now I've had months
Speaker 3: before to write a show or we're going to show,
Speaker 3: and you know, still leave it to the final week.
Speaker 3: So that really helps. But I think, and I'm not
Speaker 3: the first person to say this, but just having something
Speaker 3: doubt is putting something on the page.
Speaker 2: You can't edit a blank page.
Speaker 3: And even if you write something that is just terrible,
Speaker 3: at least then you can look at it and ask
Speaker 3: yourself you think it's terrible and the instead about fixing it,
Speaker 3: So something is better than nothing.
Speaker 1: I think always, what's collaboration been like with other writers
Speaker 1: and doing that virtually as opposed to face to face.
Speaker 1: How have you made virtual collaboration work for comedy writing?
Speaker 3: Well, of course it came about just by necessity last
Speaker 3: year with COVID, So that was just something we were
Speaker 3: thrown into like everyone else. And it was tricky, and
Speaker 3: it's always tricky because, particularly comedy writing, to be in
Speaker 3: the same room and just to be able to know
Speaker 3: one of you has a line or burst do a performance,
Speaker 3: and there is such an energy and a rhythm to
Speaker 3: that that you cannot replicate on a screen. But we've
Speaker 3: learnt to get as close as we can. It certainly
Speaker 3: didn't end up affecting. I think last year was our
Speaker 3: third series at the Weekly Spot, and we did I
Speaker 3: think some of our best sketches when we look back
Speaker 3: on it. It's just a case of having a video
Speaker 3: on so you can see each other's faces, and learning
Speaker 3: not to interrupt, for letting someone finish their train of thought,
Speaker 3: all the basics of zoom communication. Look, I'll be honestly,
Speaker 3: I'm spinning it positively because we've all made it work,
Speaker 3: but there's nothing like being in a room with someone.
Speaker 3: That's just how I feel, honestly, and I'm hoping we
Speaker 3: can do more of it soon.
Speaker 1: What is the difference, do you think, because I find
Speaker 1: that a lot of our corporate clients at Inventium lamenting
Speaker 1: the fact that work will probably be some kind of
Speaker 1: hybrid mix where people work from home and work from
Speaker 1: the office and kind of split their time between the two.
Speaker 1: And they say, well, real, true collaboration can't really happen
Speaker 1: unless we're face to face. And I must say I
Speaker 1: disagree with that, but I want to know for you,
Speaker 1: why is it that that kind of that real magic
Speaker 1: presumably can truly only happen when you're in the same room.
Speaker 3: I'm sort of disagreeing with myself, I guess in a
Speaker 3: way because, as I said, like some of our best
Speaker 3: work last year was done remotely. I think it's just
Speaker 3: more challenging because you do have to focus your mind and.
Speaker 2: Your energy a little more. And I think it can
Speaker 2: all depend on the moment. Like right now.
Speaker 3: Chatting to you, we're not in the same room, but
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a conversation which is based
Speaker 3: on words so I think it works perfectly. This it's
Speaker 3: it's if we're in the same room, it might almost
Speaker 3: affect us too much because where there's other cues and
Speaker 3: inputs that are mucking us up, you know, like.
Speaker 2: For example, I'm wearing a man kin. He up, now
Speaker 2: that would distracting for it.
Speaker 1: I want to co incident, so am I.
Speaker 3: Put as far as from me as a comedy writer,
Speaker 3: being in the same room, there's just.
Speaker 2: So much nuance. Even if you're pitching an idea. You
Speaker 2: might pitch an idea.
Speaker 3: That is aligned that is not funny on the screen,
Speaker 3: not funny written on a page, but you need to
Speaker 3: see someone told physicalityly, for example, a yoga sketch if
Speaker 3: you're trying to come up with funny yoga moves.
Speaker 2: But that's an example of this tangible thing. You can
Speaker 2: do it. We did do it.
Speaker 3: But it's just hard, that's all. But I certainly also
Speaker 3: have been involved in you know, other business meetings or
Speaker 3: just chats where it's absolutely not affected in any way
Speaker 3: by the fact that you're on a screen. I would
Speaker 3: just argue that, yeah, it's I think I've learnt in
Speaker 3: practice that being in a room, it's right down to
Speaker 3: like you're in a room. Let's say there's a screen
Speaker 3: that's broken or something, or there's something on the floor
Speaker 3: that you will see at the same time and you
Speaker 3: can comment on or something. All those little weird chicks
Speaker 3: in life that happened, and it's just that shared experience
Speaker 3: which brings.
Speaker 2: You closer together.
Speaker 3: It's nothing to do with the work you're doing, but
Speaker 3: it's about just being more comfortable with each other.
Speaker 1: So are there strategies that you've used or toyed around
Speaker 1: with to help improve virtual collaboration?
Speaker 3: The really dull stuff, but the most important stuff is
Speaker 3: the punctuality thing. Because it's so easy online to say, oh,
Speaker 3: I'll be five minutes late, or just drop a message sorry,
Speaker 3: someone's at the door, all that sort of thing, and
Speaker 3: that can be so frustrating when you're trying to come
Speaker 3: together at the same time. And I'm as guilty as
Speaker 3: the next person. So I think this year, as writers,
Speaker 3: we're definitely trying to be far more punctual, which just
Speaker 3: helps because it adds up. You know, you go through
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks and you've lost collectively an hour
Speaker 3: or two of just waiting around.
Speaker 2: For each other.
Speaker 3: I also, because I'm the script editor of the show,
Speaker 3: in that I have the final say on what words
Speaker 3: go to wear and everything. I'm trying to get better
Speaker 3: at drawing a line time wise on the conversations at
Speaker 3: times when we particularly as writers, there is always another
Speaker 3: idea that could be out there. It's never finished, it's
Speaker 3: never perfect. It ends up being whatever you did in
Speaker 3: the time you had. So I'm getting better at that's saying, Okay,
Speaker 3: we need now to commit to this idea. Let's just
Speaker 3: roll on and back to that idea that you didn't
Speaker 3: get something on the page, and if it's not.
Speaker 2: Great, you keep on working to make it better.
Speaker 3: But I think that time structure for me is the
Speaker 3: key because I no longer live in the world I
Speaker 3: used to, which was I'm going to do a comedy
Speaker 3: festival show.
Speaker 2: I've got three months to write it.
Speaker 3: And I'll just mosey along at my own pace and
Speaker 3: i have a really reductive day, and then I'll have
Speaker 3: two days off and i'll have a sandwich and I'll
Speaker 3: get back to it. I don't have that luxury, and
Speaker 3: I think my writing is probably way better for it.
Speaker 1: I want to ask about being funny, and how do
Speaker 1: you write your jokes and think about your jokes. I'm
Speaker 1: partly reluctant to because before we hit records, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm really this is fun doing a business podcast and
Speaker 1: not a humor or like comedy podcast. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh god, am I just about to ask you the
Speaker 1: exact same questions here asked on comedy podcasts.
Speaker 3: A comedy podcast wouldn't ask you about how you write,
Speaker 3: you know, it would be are all about, you know.
Speaker 2: Trying to be smart asses. Yeah, getting one ups on
Speaker 2: each other.
Speaker 1: Because I'm really fascinated by the idea of how people
Speaker 1: can bring more levity and humor to work, particularly office work,
Speaker 1: where you don't necessarily think about that. So I feel
Speaker 1: like there's probably a lot that listeners can learn in
Speaker 1: terms of thinking about how you as a comedian. Right joke? So,
Speaker 1: can you tell me how do you write a joke?
Speaker 1: Are there certain ways, certain formulas or like go to
Speaker 1: tricks and stuff?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: Well, okay, So I do feel like there are two
Speaker 3: questions here, because one is the workplace you would think,
Speaker 3: which is a whole different discussion. But I'll go first
Speaker 3: to my death creative side, since that's where the question
Speaker 3: ended in that that is the question you ask me,
Speaker 3: I should be from a politicians.
Speaker 1: Look, it was probably like a triple Barreld.
Speaker 2: Question, which yeah, no, but you're tricking that. I see
Speaker 2: what you're doing. You want me to do that? And
Speaker 2: there were okay.
Speaker 3: So on the process of writing, sadly there is no
Speaker 3: simple answer because if there was, you know, we'd all
Speaker 3: be baking heaps of money from comedy and everyone would
Speaker 3: be doing it like it is hard and there's no
Speaker 3: consistent thing. But certainly for the weekly ABC TV spot
Speaker 3: that I do, I think, what is the world that
Speaker 3: would best reflect this? And who is the target that
Speaker 3: That's the two key questions. So another one of my
Speaker 3: characters is the government coach, who's basically it is a
Speaker 3: footy coach who basically talks like this in the same
Speaker 3: way that after a footy match finishes, you know, feel
Speaker 3: grid to the boys and you put it.
Speaker 2: A bit of there.
Speaker 3: But he does press conferences in that style talking about
Speaker 3: federal politics and so there there are probably two targets.
Speaker 3: There's a little bit of a target of the Aussie
Speaker 3: macho sports culture that bubbles away, but eagerly it's still
Speaker 3: back on the politicians. With my yoga sketches. That's much
Speaker 3: more a chance to write jokes about a topic in
Speaker 3: a very different format because it's interestingly the punchlines are
Speaker 3: actually based around the moves themselves, so you might do
Speaker 3: a backflip move, or you might do it standing on
Speaker 3: one foot or foot in the mouth move, and so
Speaker 3: it's like you're picking up a different tool or a
Speaker 3: different I don't know color of paint. I'm not a
Speaker 3: good paint based metaphor amantha, But in terms of my
Speaker 3: I think it comes back to those rules that a
Speaker 3: blank page or blank script is terrifying. But once you
Speaker 3: have some limits both time and creatively, then you can
Speaker 3: really fly. And so last year we did, for example,
Speaker 3: a parody of Grand Designs where I was presenting as.
Speaker 2: The host in a sort of Kevin McLeod impression.
Speaker 3: And we were talking about the Australian Budget House which
Speaker 3: the treasure was trying to build, so it was all
Speaker 3: about the flat rate, the flat tax rouf structure and
Speaker 3: the surplus room that couldn't be built and all this
Speaker 3: sort of stuff. So again Grand Designs was never the
Speaker 3: target of that joke. It was all within the world
Speaker 3: and using the language of that So I think that
Speaker 3: is as much as I can answer that question creatively.
Speaker 3: In this instance, it's about formats that we enjoy and
Speaker 3: being really faithful to those, because you could always get
Speaker 3: cheaper laughs by then ruining the format. But for us,
Speaker 3: it's the believability that people will often watch that, or
Speaker 3: they'll watch an antiq's road show parenty we're doing They say, man,
Speaker 3: it felt just like the real show. And I think
Speaker 3: that's really satisfying, because then once you believe the world,
Speaker 3: then you can you're free to laugh for you're free
Speaker 3: to get really dark with your choices of subjects.
Speaker 1: I do want to get onto workplace humor, but I
Speaker 1: guess another way perhaps into understanding how you think about comedy.
Speaker 1: Let's just say I do a lot of keynote speaking,
Speaker 1: and I'm often thinking how can I inject more humor
Speaker 1: into this? So if I said, hey, Sammy, you just
Speaker 1: watch this ten minute section of this talk that I
Speaker 1: have to give to some big corporate and can you
Speaker 1: help me find some opportunities to inject humor? What would
Speaker 1: you be looking for? How would you be coaching me
Speaker 1: on that?
Speaker 2: Oh? About fifteen thousand dollars? Sorry for me.
Speaker 3: Comedy is always about surprise. It's about and Tim Ferguson
Speaker 3: writes about this in his book The Cheeky Monkey, which
Speaker 3: is all about sitcoms and comedy writing. But there's an
Speaker 3: argument that every time we laugh, it's basically a primeval
Speaker 3: sort of physical reaction. It's like we think we're about
Speaker 3: to die, but we're not so because so we laugh
Speaker 3: because it's a relief love, because something has broken in
Speaker 3: the matrix of what we expect. And that's been my
Speaker 3: sense of give us since day one. Back at school,
Speaker 3: I used to pop up an assembly to do like
Speaker 3: a report but then just talk about something completely irrelevant.
Speaker 3: Or if you look back at any comedy that you likes,
Speaker 3: so much of it is about surprise. So when it
Speaker 3: comes to a keynote, if you were performing a keynote
Speaker 3: at what is ostensibly a very serious or illustrious business occasion,
Speaker 3: but then you went to the next slide and there
Speaker 3: was a picture of a frog for no reason, then
Speaker 3: I would love that now even better if that frog
Speaker 3: was related to what you were presenting on them, if
Speaker 3: there was some sort of accidental pun.
Speaker 2: So I'm really thinking on my.
Speaker 3: Feet here, But let's say you were presenting at a
Speaker 3: kitchen where conference, and I'm trying to think of what
Speaker 3: would rhyme with knife or forka matter if you were
Speaker 3: googling fork or knife or spoon.
Speaker 2: Then you got me perfect.
Speaker 3: You presently had a kitchen wear conference and you've got
Speaker 3: a very serious lde about the revenues and accounts that
Speaker 3: you're going through them, and then a picture of pig
Speaker 3: comes up and you go, oh, sorry, I was actually
Speaker 3: googling gifts for this, but.
Speaker 2: I actually wrote pork his fk. Sorry, now that's lain.
Speaker 3: However, However, then five minutes later another pig comes up.
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, sorry again, sorry, And that's the point
Speaker 3: people would laugh, because then they'll be like, oh, hang on,
Speaker 3: she's really doubling down here, like she's committing to the
Speaker 3: pork stupidity. And then five minutes later there's like five picks,
Speaker 3: and then you start talking about you know, four revenues,
Speaker 3: and then you've got suddenly a large pork revenue based
Speaker 3: and then you've got to you've got someone who starts
Speaker 3: talking about the pork industry in depth, and you're like, man,
Speaker 3: that cost me like three thousand dollars to secure in
Speaker 3: that giant pork talent and I've wasted my money and
Speaker 3: you just build the absurdity. But it all comes back
Speaker 3: to one stupid, silly misunderstanding. There's a like it all,
Speaker 3: you've got to read the room. Maybe they really want
Speaker 3: to know about fawks. But it's that moment of for me,
Speaker 3: it's the surprise, and then it's the commitment. So oh,
Speaker 3: he's a surprise. We're committing to play school talk politics.
Speaker 3: But then you do four minutes of play school going
Speaker 3: into really in depth political analysis in that form, that's
Speaker 3: the commitment.
Speaker 1: And also using a callback strategy where you're going back
Speaker 1: to what you've introduced, got a laugh and sholve that
Speaker 1: come back to it to get that laugh.
Speaker 3: Totally because you made the investments. Like it's like anything
Speaker 3: you want to like get the return.
Speaker 2: You don't know, it's not a burden. If people laugh
Speaker 2: a little bit, you can milk it more.
Speaker 1: But tell me how do you bring humor like into
Speaker 1: a staff meeting at ABC? That sounds so serious it
Speaker 1: is And well, it's all about the people you work with,
Speaker 1: of course, so I can you know my workplace here is.
Speaker 3: It's pretty heightened in terms of it's all public. You
Speaker 3: know a lot of presenters who are having to deal with,
Speaker 3: particularly in the pandemics, really serious stuff, but it's also
Speaker 3: people who are passionate about their job. And any workplace
Speaker 3: that doesn't have laughter, I think has got a problem.
Speaker 3: Like the people humans laugh, and it's how we can
Speaker 3: and it's how you even in dire circumstances. It's how
Speaker 3: we unwind and blow off steam.
Speaker 2: So for me, it's.
Speaker 3: Always that the slight absurdities or someone will make a
Speaker 3: suggestion or a slip of the tongue and there's an obvious,
Speaker 3: unintended repercussion that you could sort of bring up. But
Speaker 3: the comedy involves risk, that's the thing. It involves you
Speaker 3: being a bit vulnerable and putting yourself out there. My
Speaker 3: first and really only like office wide workplace prank of
Speaker 3: joke here was we had the security passes all switched
Speaker 3: out at ABC because of part of it like a
Speaker 3: national security audit. So we had to get new swhite
Speaker 3: cars with photos, and we all had to send our
Speaker 3: photo into the security office, and one poor guy in
Speaker 3: the building accidentally hit like the all ABC staff email
Speaker 3: and so everyone just got this giant photo him smiling
Speaker 3: like it was with my thousands of ABC employees and
Speaker 3: it's just had me like a big photo like no
Speaker 3: may cup and just like take it to the car
Speaker 3: pack or something. And then he had to send like
Speaker 3: a really sincere apology to everyone.
Speaker 2: But it gets so annoyed about being on the wrong.
Speaker 3: It was like, is this guy a big face in
Speaker 3: my and so I saw that, and I think it
Speaker 3: was like fourth th in the morning, so I still
Speaker 3: was in my pre banana sort of don't care face,
Speaker 3: but I just took a big photo of my face
Speaker 3: and just sent it back to everyone at the ABC
Speaker 3: with the hashtag I Stand with Anthony, who was the
Speaker 3: name of this guy. And I must have had more
Speaker 3: attention and comments from that from stuff that I hate
Speaker 3: they have some actual work because because it was like
Speaker 3: an in joke, it was only to ABC stuff. And
Speaker 3: it also pricked this bubble because this poor guy felt
Speaker 3: he obviously felt like bad that he does something wrong,
Speaker 3: and it was also serious and it was all of
Speaker 3: security and I just pricked that bubble. My my real
Speaker 3: hope was that everyone else, like an I'm Spartacus moment,
Speaker 3: everyone else would start sending back their head shops, but
Speaker 3: no one. No one had the carriage I really loved taking.
Speaker 3: But It's like there's a classic like no one has
Speaker 3: to be a comedian to do that sort of stuff.
Speaker 3: It's just I still had to like go, Okay, this
Speaker 3: is going to annoys some people because all people are
Speaker 3: upset about their inboxes.
Speaker 2: But it's funny, So just do it. I think you
Speaker 2: have to.
Speaker 3: It's the bit of you that stops out of fear.
Speaker 3: Back to what I was saying about fear some time ago,
Speaker 3: it's that's the bit you just have to take a
Speaker 3: breath and go, look, you know what's the worst it
Speaker 3: can happen?
Speaker 1: You know, how do you get over that fear of
Speaker 1: a joke failing?
Speaker 2: Well, you fail enough that you just know that you survived.
Speaker 2: I think that's it.
Speaker 3: It's it's back to the early gigs for me, where
Speaker 3: you know that I've done bad gigs. They'll do bad
Speaker 3: ones in future, but you know it's not the end
Speaker 3: of the world, and you know that at any given
Speaker 3: moment there are so many worst things happening in the
Speaker 3: world that someone not laughing at a crappy comedian's joke
Speaker 3: that you wake up the next day and your crack on.
Speaker 3: And I think the benefit of having a slight profile
Speaker 3: at least for ABC audiences. Now, I feel like that
Speaker 3: that they will they know me enough that unless I
Speaker 3: do some horrific joke that's completely inappropriate, they go, oh,
Speaker 3: that's been a crappy joke. But you know it's Sammy.
Speaker 3: He'll look forward to seeing what he says next. And
Speaker 3: I think until the moment no one is looking forward
Speaker 3: to seeing what we do next. Then you're going, Okay, that's.
Speaker 1: Such a great way of looking at it. Now, Sammie,
Speaker 1: I am going to finish on time because I'm just
Speaker 1: going to ask you one more question, and that is
Speaker 1: for people that want to consume more of what you're doing,
Speaker 1: what are the best ways for listeners to do that
Speaker 1: if they.
Speaker 3: Would like to listen to me five point thirty in
Speaker 3: the morning Melbourne time and dreg In might I have
Speaker 3: some listeners in Albuquerque in New Mexico, which is exciting.
Speaker 3: So it's wherever you may be five thirty am Melbourne
Speaker 3: time Monday to Friday can tune into the radio show,
Speaker 3: and that you can chine into that via the ABC website.
Speaker 3: So if you search for Sammy Joe ABC Radio, you'll
Speaker 3: find the official website and you can stream that from
Speaker 3: anywhere as to my comedy sketches. You can find those
Speaker 3: on my Facebook page, so just Sammy Jay Comedian. You
Speaker 3: search for that and find me. You can follow the
Speaker 3: page and every Thursday I put out a new sketch
Speaker 3: and that goes up there and it's also available you
Speaker 3: can watch it on TV if you're in Australia before
Speaker 3: the news on a Thursday night as well, and you
Speaker 3: can also.
Speaker 2: Listen to the radio.
Speaker 3: I just completely lost, like forgot the basic analog methods
Speaker 3: of consuming me Andmantha. But you can listen to the
Speaker 3: radio as well or TV. But online is really, let's
Speaker 3: be honest, that's where it's at.
Speaker 1: That is where it's at. Sammy. I've loved chatting to you.
Speaker 1: This has just been an absolute delight. I wish you
Speaker 1: didn't have a staff meeting, but you do, and you
Speaker 1: need to get to that long time like a loser,
Speaker 1: that's right, You've got like a job and stuff to do.
Speaker 1: So Sammie, thank you so much for your time. I've
Speaker 1: just love chatting to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Amantha. It's a genuine pleasure.
Speaker 3: As I said, it's in the comedy world, it's it's
Speaker 3: not often you sort of just get to talk through
Speaker 3: your actual sort of you know work.
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying
Speaker 1: How I Work, you might want to hit subscribe if
Speaker 1: you haven't already, because next week on the show, I
Speaker 1: have the CEO of car Sales, Cameron McIntyre, and we're
Speaker 1: going to be talking about how he keeps composed and
Speaker 1: cool under the pressure of leading a four point five
Speaker 1: billion dollar business. So hit subscribe and you will be
Speaker 1: alerted as to when new episodes drop. How I Work
Speaker 1: is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.
Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was the wonderful Jenna Cooder,
Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Nimber who did the audio
Speaker 1: mix and makes everything sounds better than it would have otherwise.
Speaker 1: See you next time.