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Speaker 1: When being funny is your job, how can you turn

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Speaker 1: it on like a tap? And by the way, you

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Speaker 1: only have an hour set aside to prep then it'll

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Speaker 1: be filmed tomorrow and airs on TV soon after. And

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Speaker 1: before any of this has happened, you've had to wake

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Speaker 1: up at three thirty am, pack yourself some lunch, and

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Speaker 1: ride your bike to work and host two and a

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Speaker 1: half hours of breakfast radio. This is the new life

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Speaker 1: of Sammy Jane, who were used to seeing on stages

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Speaker 1: around the world next to a puppet, a purple puppet

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Speaker 1: named Randy. Gone are the days where Sammy j McMillan

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Speaker 1: had all day to sit around writing comedy songs before

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Speaker 1: heading into town to perform at night. Now his success

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Speaker 1: means that he has many bosses and demands on his

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Speaker 1: time and he has to manage his creativity to deliver

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Speaker 1: it within very streat time limits. So how does he

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Speaker 1: structure his day around something that is so unstructured and

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Speaker 1: spontaneous And what's the checklist that he uses to make

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Speaker 1: sure he has the energy to get through the week.

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Speaker 1: My name is doctor Romantha imbat I'm an organizational psychologist

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Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral Science consultancy Inventium and this

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Speaker 1: is how I work, a show about how to help

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Speaker 1: you do your best work. For the past year, Sammy

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Speaker 1: has been working two full time jobs, presenting early morning

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Speaker 1: radio five days a week on ABC Melbourne, as well

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Speaker 1: as writing and performing comedy on TV. So let's learn

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Speaker 1: about how Sammy actually structures his days.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: At the moment in my life, I've got a job

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Speaker 3: which I've never had before, so that gives me some

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Speaker 3: inbuilt structure in that I have to turn up to

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Speaker 3: a workplace or I will be fired, and that helps.

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Speaker 3: But the specific turning out time is the sole point.

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Speaker 3: Because I'm working in breakfast radio. I'm in Melbourne, Australia.

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Speaker 3: Started last year at twenty twenty, I started hosting the

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Speaker 3: breakfast Radio show which goes from five point thirty in

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Speaker 3: the morning till eight o'clock on ABC Local Radio. That

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Speaker 3: means I have to be in the office at four thirty,

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Speaker 3: an hour before showtime, and that means I have to

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Speaker 3: get up at a quarter to four each morning. So

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Speaker 3: that's the brutal part. But having got up out of bed,

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Speaker 3: you know, I then get myself to the office and

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Speaker 3: I do my show and so five days a week. Now,

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Speaker 3: I do have an inbuilt structure where I have to

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Speaker 3: be somewhere there are other people around, which as someone

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Speaker 3: I've previously come from a life of comedy, so my

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Speaker 3: schedule has normally been entirely in my own hands. But

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Speaker 3: I guess this structure helps in that I have accountability

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Speaker 3: and obligations in around that. I also write and produce

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Speaker 3: a weekly TV spot for ABC, which is a satirical

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Speaker 3: spot based on the news of the week, and that

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Speaker 3: goes out nationally each week. I write that with my

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Speaker 3: co writers on a Monday, and we refine it on Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: and we film it on a Wednesday, so that all

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Speaker 3: takes place after the radio show. So that is a

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Speaker 3: very bird's eye view of the schedule, Amountha. But I

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Speaker 3: will let you probe me further if you wish. But

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be one of those guys who

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Speaker 3: then talks like an hour and then you're like, no,

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Speaker 3: I just wanted a really quick response.

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Speaker 1: That's right, thank you, yes, because those guests are always

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Speaker 1: delightful to manage. So you're getting up a quarter to four,

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Speaker 1: how then do you think about the back half of

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Speaker 1: your day? Because you're not really wanting to be up

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Speaker 1: until midnight doing stuff or writing. So how does it

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Speaker 1: work when you clock off? So to speak from breakfast radio?

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Speaker 1: But you still got all these other commitments took me

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Speaker 1: through that.

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Speaker 2: I'll go really micro right now.

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Speaker 3: Like two hours ago, I fell asleep sitting up at

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Speaker 3: my desk and woke myself by snoring, and I'd accidentally

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Speaker 3: typed something on the keyboard, which we all been marveled at,

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Speaker 3: like it was my subconscious.

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Speaker 2: The word was ft like a million ease. That's not regular,

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Speaker 2: but that's I.

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Speaker 3: As to your other guests amount that, I'm assuming you've

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Speaker 3: had some like high profile like big hitters Forbes rich List, and.

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Speaker 2: They all have got their shit together. They know what's

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Speaker 2: going on. So I'm not going to be one of

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Speaker 2: those skits. I've got more. I'm coming seeking for help

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Speaker 2: and advice.

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Speaker 3: Really, last year, I basically to answer that question, I

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Speaker 3: didn't have a good sense of my schedule, and I

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Speaker 3: was still working off and at five o'clock on any day,

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Speaker 3: which meant I've been going.

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Speaker 2: For thirteen hours.

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Speaker 3: And I've also got two young kids, and so it

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Speaker 3: was just completely unsustainable. So this year I did come

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Speaker 3: in as a sort of goal driven guy. Maybe I

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Speaker 3: was like, Okay, what do I want to get out

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Speaker 3: of this year? And really the main thing for me

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Speaker 3: is I want to stop working it about two o'clock

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Speaker 3: each day, because that.

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Speaker 2: Would mean I'll have done about eight or nine hours

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Speaker 2: and at two o'clock.

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Speaker 3: Bearing in mind that's sort of my mentally, that's my

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Speaker 3: five or six o'clock in the evening. So if I

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Speaker 3: don't switch up down, I'm simply not going to have

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Speaker 3: time to unwind or see people before I have to

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Speaker 3: get to bed at eight or eight thirty each night.

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Speaker 2: So that's my approach to the day. Now.

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Speaker 3: It's very much a work in progress because there's always

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Speaker 3: things to do. Well, there's always more you can do,

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Speaker 3: of course in life, and so really trying to focus

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Speaker 3: hat on what's the job I have to do today

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Speaker 3: and when is enough?

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Speaker 1: So how do you clock off at two in the afternoon,

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Speaker 1: because everybody else in the world is like, hang on, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: We've still got half a work day.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a bit of management of expectations, I think,

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Speaker 3: because I'm generally I've always pride of myself, I'm being

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Speaker 3: pretty responsive communication wise. It's like I can't if I've

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Speaker 3: got an unread text message or a message I haven't

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Speaker 3: responded to from anyone that'll give me low level anxiety

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Speaker 3: until I've sort of tiped that off and I am

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Speaker 3: trying to get much better at going No, it's okay

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Speaker 3: to step away, it's okay to leave people hanging a

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Speaker 3: little bit, and as far as the six of the

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Speaker 3: day goes, I think that's part of me communicating to

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Speaker 3: my different teams, whether it's my radio team or or

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Speaker 3: my TV team, that I'm not going to be around

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Speaker 3: after two o'clock, or that they can text me or

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Speaker 3: amout me, but I might not get back to them,

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Speaker 3: and of course I probably still do, so I need

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Speaker 3: to get better at training them that that's not the thing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's an interesting rule, so don't expect a response

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Speaker 1: after two.

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Speaker 2: Which it's very specific to my job.

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Speaker 3: Like obviously, I think the challenge for most people who

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Speaker 3: are working hard, like everyone in the world, is the

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Speaker 3: nighttime routine I reckon.

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Speaker 2: Like until last year, I was a night owl.

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Speaker 3: I performed at night, I worked at night on off

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Speaker 3: and wrote things at night, So it would be getting

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Speaker 3: into bed at one o'clock or something that would be

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Speaker 3: my challenge it's the opposite. Now I'm productive in the

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Speaker 3: morning because that's my current job. I think it's slightly

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Speaker 3: lonely in that sense that even if I'm functioning, or

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Speaker 3: I'm around, or I've been to meetings at three or

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Speaker 3: four o'clock in the afternoon, people just go, okay, Sam,

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Speaker 3: you see, that's fine. But mentally it's really can become

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Speaker 3: quite a fog. And I'm getting better at I think

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Speaker 3: sticking up for myself or at least explaining that I'm

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Speaker 3: operating on a different and less pleasurable plane at that

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Speaker 3: time of day.

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Speaker 1: And how have you trained yourself to go from a

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Speaker 1: night owl to essentially a morning person?

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Speaker 2: Like any job, you do jump into it.

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Speaker 3: So I trained myself simply by sitting the alarm, and

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Speaker 3: it was as brutal as any early rises. No, I

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Speaker 3: mean three point thirty that as an alarm is almost

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Speaker 3: a late night rather than morning.

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Speaker 2: That's how someone.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's a body clock thing, and it

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Speaker 3: actually I've adjusted to it pretty well.

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Speaker 2: I have to be really careful. I think about my I.

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Speaker 3: Never drink during the week, for example, because I'll just

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Speaker 3: get a headache the next day and that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: And I try and ride my bike into work, which

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Speaker 3: sounds like I'm some sort of tony appt alpha male,

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Speaker 3: which is not me. If anyone is picturing that, I'm

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Speaker 3: a skinny bird like chicken man like struggling my way

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Speaker 3: to work. But it means that I've built in some

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Speaker 3: exercise to the day, for example. So it's all these

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Speaker 3: little practical things that I've managed to make it work.

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Speaker 3: But I'm aware that it's a fine balance and it

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Speaker 3: can easily come part.

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Speaker 1: Do you have routines at night to help, I guess,

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Speaker 1: train yourself that hang on even though a lot of

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Speaker 1: the world might be out or being social right now,

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Speaker 1: I need to get to bed in order to have

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Speaker 1: enough sleep to wake up at an ungodly hour.

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Speaker 3: I think in terms of how my week breakdowns, and

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Speaker 3: this includes the nights. It's very much basics for me,

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Speaker 3: which I've never had to get my head around as

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Speaker 3: much in the past, and I do now because as

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Speaker 3: I just said, like otherwise, I know that it'll you know,

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Speaker 3: there's nothing worse than being on radio and feeling hungover

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Speaker 3: or exhausted or miserable.

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Speaker 2: So for me, it's the regular exercise thing.

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Speaker 3: It is getting to bed on time, and I, you know,

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Speaker 3: try and routine wise, I'll physically I'll go down, I'll

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Speaker 3: close the door, I'll have a shower, and prepare my

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Speaker 3: bag for the next day, really practical things that I know

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to want to think about the next day.

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Speaker 3: I'll put a banana in my bag for like all

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Speaker 3: that sort of stuff and the things that I just

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Speaker 3: don't want my brain space to be taken up with

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Speaker 3: in the morning.

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Speaker 2: And also just making sure I'm prepared. So on radio,

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Speaker 2: you know, each day.

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Speaker 3: It is a show, I'm interviewing lots of different people

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Speaker 3: and that sort of thing, and trying to be across

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Speaker 3: the basic stories that we're planning to do the next day,

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Speaker 3: all those little things that.

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Speaker 2: Just take a bit of pressure off the following morning.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's nice.

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Speaker 3: At least I feel like every second week I might

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Speaker 3: get to the end and be exhausted or something didn't

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Speaker 3: go right. But at least I feel like I have

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Speaker 3: a better checklist now than I ever had of what

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Speaker 3: variables exist, so I can go Last week, I had

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Speaker 3: a bad one a man, for I was just like

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Speaker 3: from behind the whole time, I was not quite present,

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Speaker 3: and I got to the end of the week and

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Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, what happened this week? Well, I didn't

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Speaker 3: run a bike once any day. I've got a bit

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Speaker 3: lazy with that, so that's one factor.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: I did have a beer one night, so that wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have helped little specific things. And I also moved house,

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Speaker 3: which I realized, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's that's pretty stressful.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty big.

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Speaker 2: And I think it was someone else who pointed that

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Speaker 2: out to me.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, this is a really hard week,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, but you just did I think, don't.

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Speaker 3: They say moving house is like one of the most

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Speaker 3: stressful thing you do in life. So yes, yes, I

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Speaker 3: was getting too focused on my little checklist without realizing

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Speaker 3: there was the biggest thing at play.

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Speaker 1: That's right, too worried about packing that banana. So tell

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Speaker 1: me more about this checklist. So is this like an

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Speaker 1: actual checklist or a metaphorical checklist?

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Speaker 2: Tell me about it.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's metaphorically that it's just a mental one now.

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Speaker 3: But I found it super handy and I think it's

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Speaker 3: something I should have paid.

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Speaker 2: Far more attention to in the past.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if this is the appropriate stage to

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Speaker 3: wine the clock back and man through in our check

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Speaker 3: because I don't want to, you know, drag it down

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Speaker 3: a time walk too soon. But my whole career in

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Speaker 3: life has been a self appointed comedian. I've done live shows,

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Speaker 3: and I think my primary skill and my primary work

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Speaker 3: has always been doing live shows. And what I've been

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Speaker 3: by that is working at comedy festivals. So I live

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Speaker 3: in Melbourne, so anyone who is listening from Melbourne knows

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Speaker 3: that the Melbourne Comedy Festival is a huge event here.

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Speaker 3: It takes over the streets every year. And then the

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Speaker 3: other two biggest festivals in the world of Montreal and

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Speaker 3: the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. So over the past fifteen years,

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Speaker 3: that's been my sort of life, bouncing between those festivals

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Speaker 3: as well as smaller ones doing life work. In the

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Speaker 3: last five or ten years, I've gravitated more towards TV,

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Speaker 3: but in almost all of that work, and I've always

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Speaker 3: been prone to stress and wanting to get things done,

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Speaker 3: and I've always been pretty productive and focused, but it's

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Speaker 3: often bubbled over, certainly not in any really serious way.

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Speaker 2: But I look back now and go, yeah, I reckon.

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Speaker 3: That stress slash low level anxiety and things has always

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Speaker 3: been bubbling away down. I could have been far more

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Speaker 3: proactive in addressing that. And I think that's what this

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Speaker 3: little checklist does for me.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm able to go.

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Speaker 3: There will always be some stressful weeks or weeks were

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Speaker 3: just feeling down on yourself because you didn't achieve what

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Speaker 3: you wanted to and so on, but I'm able to go.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, yep, look you die.

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Speaker 3: Look at your drinking, look at your exercise, Look you're planning,

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Speaker 3: and most importantly for me, look at what things you

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Speaker 3: said yes to that you should not.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's a big hangover.

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Speaker 3: From being a self employed artist for fifteen years, because

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Speaker 3: I spent my whole life training myself to say yes

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Speaker 3: to absolutely everything, because it's a famine or feast thing.

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Speaker 2: When you're at you do have to take the work.

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Speaker 3: I'm suddenly in a position where I have two stable

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Speaker 3: jobs with my radio and my TV work, and it's

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Speaker 3: a real challenge to learn to say no to requests

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Speaker 3: because basically I'm now at the point where capacity wise,

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Speaker 3: as per the day I just described to you, if

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Speaker 3: I say yes to a gig or a job or something,

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Speaker 3: it's really taking time away from my family and my ability.

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Speaker 2: To to not die, which is a goal. Who's another

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Speaker 2: goal on my checklist? Did I die today?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I'm going all right.

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Speaker 1: It's been a successful day, like you know, set the filelow.

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Speaker 1: So with that, this idea is saying this and saying no.

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Speaker 1: I once heard someone say that the number one productivity

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Speaker 1: tip that they could give to anyone and is to

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Speaker 1: say no more often. And I want to know, for

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Speaker 1: someone that has not been used to saying no, what

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Speaker 1: have you learned about how to say no? Well?

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Speaker 2: Oh, that is a great question, and I'm still learning.

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Speaker 3: I think the phrase over committed is a great phrase

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Speaker 3: to use, not just because it's easy to say, but

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Speaker 3: it's actually completely truthful, and because I have a huge habit,

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Speaker 3: Amantha of if someone says, you know, text me or

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Speaker 3: emails and says what you do this, and I will

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Speaker 3: spend twenty minutes composing the reply and giving really specific,

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Speaker 3: detailed analysis and an essay on why I would love

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Speaker 3: to but here's why I can't. But maybe next time

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Speaker 3: get back to me. Like I've just lost more time

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Speaker 3: than often the task would have taken just to do. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, I have a managers in terms of my

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Speaker 3: comedy and my work and everything. Who I've worked with

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Speaker 3: for ten years now, but I'm definitely relying on them,

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Speaker 3: leaning on them more often now to be able to

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Speaker 3: ford an email really quickly and say please decline with

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Speaker 3: my thanks, you know that sort of language, which, again,

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Speaker 3: it's a very privileged position to be and so I'm

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Speaker 3: really aware of that. But on a personal level, I've

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Speaker 3: always felt that I want to help people when I can,

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Speaker 3: and professionally, when you get to a point where my

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Speaker 3: appearance in a show or something would help someone, I

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Speaker 3: really want.

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Speaker 2: To be able to do that.

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Speaker 3: But equally, I have to remind myself back to what

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Speaker 3: we were talking about about.

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Speaker 2: I have a family and I need to see them

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Speaker 2: and leave time for so.

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Speaker 3: I think honesty is great, but also as far as

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Speaker 3: the advice and learning about saying no, you don't.

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Speaker 2: Have to be a completely open book.

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Speaker 3: It's that you're allowed to have a bit of personal

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Speaker 3: reasons as to why you don't want to do something,

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Speaker 3: and if you're not just known as a general asshole,

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Speaker 3: then you can expect people to understand. I think I would.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes my mind will go to the worst case scenario

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Speaker 3: where they think that I'm a monster for saying no

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Speaker 3: to something, when actually they might just go fair enough,

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Speaker 3: you can't do it, They'll move on with their day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so easy to overthink, isn't it. I do

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Speaker 1: like the idea of delegating saying no. That is very

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Speaker 1: helpful something I do because I say no a lot

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Speaker 1: because I used to be a yes person and that

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Speaker 1: just got me into chaos in very busy days. But

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Speaker 1: I have a templated response for saying no for some

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Speaker 1: of the more common requests that I get, and I

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Speaker 1: find that for me, that takes the emotion out of

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Speaker 1: it and it makes me feel less stressed about saying no.

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Speaker 3: They adjusted though we're throwing one little personal line at

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Speaker 3: the top, or do you make a point of not

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00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,600
Speaker 3: doing that, because then you start getting creative about it.

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Speaker 1: Then I start falling into your problem of like taking

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Speaker 1: so long to respond that I should.

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Speaker 2: Have just done the time of bus What are the

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Speaker 2: buzzwords in your template?

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Speaker 1: So firstly acknowledge that I'm flattered that they would think

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Speaker 1: of me. Like, for example, something I say no to

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Speaker 1: a lot is I get a lot of pitches for

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Speaker 1: people wanting to be on the podcast or pr folk

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Speaker 1: wanting to get their clients on the show, And so

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Speaker 1: I certainly thank them for thinking of how I work,

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Speaker 1: because that's lovely. I give a reason, which is that

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Speaker 1: the schedule's full, which it generally is a few months

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Speaker 1: in advance, and then I'll wish them luck with whatever

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Speaker 1: they're doing. So they're the three key ingredients. And the

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Speaker 1: other thing that I think is really important, because I

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Speaker 1: know it really shits me when I ask for something

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't happen is just a quick no, quick note.

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Speaker 1: I think can feel a bit vicious, but I actually

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Speaker 1: think being on the receiving end of quick notes and

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Speaker 1: slow nose, the quick notes are so much better because

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Speaker 1: you can move on and just oh, yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: it's not personal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I see I've got like emails right now

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00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 3: and you box with flags on them because I wanted

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Speaker 3: to give it a week before I said no, And

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Speaker 3: you've just clarify for me that that's who's.

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Speaker 2: That helping like it's it's it hangs over me, hangs

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Speaker 2: over them. It's it's no good.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny because I reckon the slow no comes

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Speaker 1: from you almost want to make it look as if

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Speaker 1: it was a really tough decision. Should I say yes,

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Speaker 1: should I say no? I'm stewing over it for a week.

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Speaker 1: That's how big a decision it is. But that's not

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Speaker 1: helping anyone. Now. I read that when you're presenting radio

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Speaker 1: you started standing up. Why are you doing that?

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Speaker 3: When I started the job startup last year, and I

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Speaker 3: just had a view in my mind. ABC Radio is

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Speaker 3: in Australia, it's very well known, it's very well trusted

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Speaker 3: and respected by some, and so it's got a certain

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Speaker 3: mature and you know, intelligent sort of aura, and in

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Speaker 3: my head that the presenters I always listened to on

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Speaker 3: the were just mature people who were sitting down and

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Speaker 3: just talking maturely about things. And I tried that for

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Speaker 3: the first week and I was listening back, I could

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Speaker 3: hear myself. I was like, you're not really being you're

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Speaker 3: being You're doing an impersonation. And because I do do

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Speaker 3: impersonations in my comedy, perhaps that's one of my go

385
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Speaker 3: to tools. But I was impersonating and what I thought

386
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 3: I roundio presentation should be. So I was very much like, oh,

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00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,400
Speaker 3: good morning Melbourne, it's ABC Radio.

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Speaker 2: You're with Sammy Jay and it just wasn't me.

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Speaker 3: And then I discovered there's a button on the desk

390
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Speaker 3: in the studio, which it's like an arrow up and down.

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Speaker 3: I don't know when it told me about it, but

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I pushed it at the whole desk,

393
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 3: like hydraulically lifts up really spectacularly. So I did a

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Speaker 3: whole show standing up, and people commented they could hear

395
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Speaker 3: my energy Chaine straight away, because I'm now every show,

396
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 3: I jump around and I pace and strutton and my

397
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 3: arms are flating around and it's still, you know, not

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Speaker 3: that I'm switched to a complete vaudeville show, but it's

399
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 3: absolutely lets me.

400
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Speaker 2: Have more fun when I want to have more fun

401
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Speaker 2: and when it's appropriate.

402
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Speaker 3: And for me, it's purely just tapping into I think,

403
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Speaker 3: what I what I already do, which is standing on

404
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 3: stage talking to people. And when I was sitting, I

405
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 3: was not embodying or accessing any part of that part

406
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,239
Speaker 3: of me. But standing up feels just more like what

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Speaker 3: I do.

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00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,199
Speaker 2: Now. That's not saying that what I do is a

409
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Speaker 2: complete crap, but at least it's authentic crap.

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Speaker 1: At least. And you are you standing right now as

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Speaker 1: we're recording Should I?

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Speaker 2: Should I stand now for a while and see.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's do that and see if I see.

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Speaker 2: I did the same thing you just point.

415
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Speaker 3: I realized that I'm doing a business podcast with them,

416
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 3: all I should I should, That's right, Okay.

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Speaker 1: You need to be very serious now. Now that's interesting

418
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Speaker 1: about this idea of being more you, particularly when you're

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Speaker 1: someone that is used to adopting a character or a persona.

420
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Speaker 1: So with the radio work, what were the steps that

421
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 1: you took, aside from pressing a button to raise a desk,

422
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 1: to be more you and get out of that ABC

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Speaker 1: presenter persona.

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Speaker 3: It's the biggest question I have for myself at the moment,

425
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 3: because it's an ongoing thing and the job came up

426
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Speaker 3: unexpct for me.

427
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: I was asked to fill in.

428
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Speaker 3: Briefly, I didn't know that there was soon be an

429
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 3: opening and sort of thing as radio people come and

430
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Speaker 3: going radio constantly, and so it'll be me on the

431
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,560
Speaker 3: way out at some point.

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Speaker 2: But when I was.

433
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Speaker 3: Offered the role, I really was completely unsure, Like it

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00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 3: wasn't something I jumped in straight away. I really I

435
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 3: did the whole full waiting to say yes or no.

436
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 3: I made them as we just discussed, But because my

437
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 3: whole career has been spent yet Sammy Jay is a

438
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,359
Speaker 3: nickname and a character name like I've used it as

439
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 3: a fictional character and in a musical comedy duo with

440
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,159
Speaker 3: Randy the puppett I've used it as myself when I

441
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 3: MC events and things.

442
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 2: But it's this changeable thing.

443
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 3: But on radio, I think there's a metaphorical contract where

444
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 3: where you're expected to bring yourself there. You can't just

445
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,919
Speaker 3: be up pretending to be someone all day, and you

446
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 3: have to bring a bit of yourself into it. And

447
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 3: that's been a big learning curve for me getting comfortable

448
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,880
Speaker 3: with that, and I think I am now much further

449
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 3: along than I was when I started in the job.

450
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,119
Speaker 3: But it all comes back to complete fear for me,

451
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,080
Speaker 3: as perhaps it does for everyone in any job you did.

452
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,679
Speaker 2: I was afraid of being shown up to be stupid

453
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 2: or or.

454
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,680
Speaker 3: Arrogant, or vulnerable or all the things that we don't

455
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 3: like about ourselves. And when you're speaking every morning, five

456
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 3: days a week to hundreds of thousands of people, that

457
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 3: fear is intense. But like any job, it's now something

458
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 3: which I can switch on at five point thirty and

459
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 3: talk and not be too worried about what's coming out

460
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,480
Speaker 3: of my mouth. Because I've learned that if I can

461
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 3: talk to you personally, or I can talk people in

462
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 3: a room and I don't come off as some big

463
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 3: racist to beget, then maybe I can do that on regular

464
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,800
Speaker 3: you know, because the fear is huge in the media

465
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 3: and instance day and age. You know, we all know

466
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 3: you're on this step away from being canceled or whatever.

467
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 3: So that's all there. But I think in being myself

468
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 3: who is I'm a fairly vulnerable sort of poking my

469
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 3: head over the parap sort of guy. Anyway, That's been

470
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 3: I think my secret weapon, because I'm normally the first

471
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 3: person to make the joke about myself than others to

472
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,719
Speaker 3: acknowledge hopefully where there's blind spots or places to improve.

473
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,119
Speaker 3: I try to do that as much as I can

474
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,679
Speaker 3: on radio, so that people aren't threatened by me, and

475
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 3: then perhaps they don't want to attack me as viciously.

476
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 1: What is that feedback loop like for yourself? Do you

477
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: have a proces for reviewing or analyzing or critiquing your

478
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: performance on radio?

479
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,719
Speaker 2: There is a very structured process for that. At ABC.

480
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,199
Speaker 3: There's internal air checks they call them, where you all

481
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 3: gather together and listening back and then as a team

482
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: you work on the show, and you're always coming up

483
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 3: with new segments or discussing guests and things. So that's there,

484
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 3: and I sort of trust that process pretty well because

485
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 3: I still feel like I'm very much learning, I'm still

486
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 3: very much the new kids, So there's never been a

487
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 3: note given to me where I haven't agreed with it.

488
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 3: Like if someone says how you're talking too fast, or hey,

489
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 3: that was a really bad question you could have asked

490
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 3: like this, I'm always like yeah, totally like so I

491
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 3: really find.

492
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 2: That actually helpful.

493
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 3: There's a more blunt feedback tool which is called the ratings,

494
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 3: and in fact, you know, they actually just came out

495
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 3: like an hour ago, so I think there's a whole now,

496
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 3: Like in the paper later today, I will be mentioned

497
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,360
Speaker 3: with regards to my ratings and things. But having been

498
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,200
Speaker 3: through the TV and live work, you get fairly used

499
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,679
Speaker 3: to the up and down all that stuff as well,

500
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 3: So not as affected by that as I think some

501
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 3: people thought I would be.

502
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting about the work that you do,

503
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:04,199
Speaker 1: that the feedback is so public, certainly with something as objective,

504
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 1: if you like, as ratings, through to social media and

505
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: the feedback loop there through all the work that you've

506
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 1: been doing in your career. How have you learned not

507
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: to let it just completely destroy you and self confidence?

508
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,479
Speaker 1: What are the strategies that you've learned over the years.

509
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 3: Gee, well, I mean I think back to the first

510
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 3: like bad comedy review I get I got like years ago,

511
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 3: and it does destroy you like anyone, likely in the

512
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 3: normal workplace. Perhaps that's the equivalent of a workplace.

513
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:34,640
Speaker 2: Review or something.

514
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 3: But having your name published in the newspapers, someone giving

515
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 3: you two stars and saying, oh, it's just rubbish.

516
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 2: It can cripple you. But I think in the comedy

517
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: and in the.

518
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,639
Speaker 3: Arts or in general, they're the bits that make you,

519
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 3: and they're the bits where and if you headed to

520
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 3: any open mic comedy night or musicians night, you're going

521
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 3: to find let's say ten performers in their early twenties,

522
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 3: eight or nine of them will probably not continue that

523
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: as a job. And I think part of that will

524
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 3: be because of the feedback is the audience weren't kind

525
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 3: to them more because they.

526
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 2: Had a bad review and it was a bit of fun.

527
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 3: But then they move on and get stable jobs, which

528
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: I have so much respect for because I don't think

529
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 3: we're built as humans to I don't really like the

530
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 3: idea that we have to become hard in ourselves or

531
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 3: become completely oblievi's to what people think in order to succeed,

532
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 3: because I think that's just not a natural statement. We

533
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 3: all want to be liked and we all want to

534
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 3: be complimented rather than torn down. However, creatively, it took

535
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 3: me a long time. I think success didn't come to

536
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,640
Speaker 3: me like really quickly. It's been a very slow sort

537
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 3: of progress for me career wise, and along the way

538
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 3: for me was always about finding my voice, finding what

539
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: I found funny, being true to that, and that really

540
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: helped so much with reviews and things. Because when I

541
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 3: got a good review for like my live shows, and

542
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: it was a show I really worked hard on and

543
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: I was proud of it, I was really it was

544
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 3: really satisfying. But we've had a bad review again, either

545
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 3: I agree with some of the points, I was like,

546
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: you know, that's fair enough, or it was someone who

547
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,399
Speaker 3: just didn't like me, and that I really got to

548
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 3: the point where I think that that's okay as well,

549
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: Like I'm not here, none of us are here to

550
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: try and please everyone in the world. Then that's just

551
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: a recipe for disaster, and I think creatively and I

552
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 3: talk about this with younger comedians if they ever want

553
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 3: to know a bit more about the industry or my

554
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 3: take on it, But I sort of say, well, you

555
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 3: have to decide you're trying to do things that you enjoy,

556
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: or you're trying to do things just for other people.

557
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 3: And if you want to other people, you can, you know,

558
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: make as meny dick jokes as you want, or pub

559
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 3: jokes that aren't appropriate or whatever, and you can please

560
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: lots of people, but you probably won't be necessarily happy

561
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:27,199
Speaker 3: with that. But if you're doing what you want to do,

562
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: then whether or not there's an audience for that is

563
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 3: to an extent.

564
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 2: Out of your hands.

565
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 3: You're just trying to find the audience to share your

566
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 3: sense of humor. And then to the extent that it

567
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 3: is in your hands, I think that takes up ninety

568
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 3: percent of your work because very much, for me, comedy

569
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: has been a business and it's about really aggressively finding

570
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: that audience and being clever about how you market yourself.

571
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 3: And I don't say that with any synthesis and whatsoever.

572
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that most artists who have made a

573
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: living have had to become by default business people in

574
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 3: order to achieve that. Wow, that was a really long answer,

575
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 3: like I went all over the place an sorry, mat.

576
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 1: That's why we edit things, but I probably won't edit that.

577
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: So you make it sound really really simple, like don't

578
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: try to expect that everyone will love you. Find your

579
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: kind of crowd. But I imagine that that was a

580
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: pretty hard lesson to learn, Like was there a turning

581
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: point where you perhaps knew that intellectually but you then

582
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,239
Speaker 1: started to internalize that.

583
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 3: I think there was, and I think it was to

584
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: do with maturity, As lame as that sounds, but I

585
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 3: look back and my first gigs singing songs standing up

586
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 3: at a keyboard in pubs around Melbourne. Half that material,

587
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: it was still proud of, in that I was doing

588
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: interesting songs or coming up with interesting comedy ideas that

589
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 3: were a bit original, And the other half was just

590
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: some shocking stuff that was variously probably racist or misogynisic

591
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: or sexits and take your pick, like in terms of

592
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: just as a young image would do trying to make

593
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: people laugh. And I think I also really put up

594
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: quite a confronting facade of really trying to be an edgy,

595
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: sort of smart on stage because I saw that was

596
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 3: how other people were doing it, and that was never

597
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 3: actually me. I was much more yeh, the sort of

598
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 3: almost shy nerd type. And I look back maybe the

599
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: last five years or so, when I've had more success

600
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: in some ways, I think that has been because of

601
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 3: that human element to what I do. Like I much

602
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: more work on bringing my own stories, Like there'll be

603
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: personal elements to my songs that I right now which

604
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: I never would have used to approach because I would

605
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: have thought it was too small zerials and it didn't

606
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 3: have enough jokes. But I now have learned that being

607
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 3: more myself, even if myself is not as funny as

608
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 3: that most comedians at least, I think there's a personal

609
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 3: connection there which I can achieve, and I've learned to

610
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 3: embrace that far more. So that's not really a lesson

611
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 3: for anyone else. It's probably less than being more true

612
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: to yourself. So for me, that was being more true

613
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: to myself.

614
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: Hey, there, it's nearly time for a little ad break.

615
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 1: But can I ask a favor of you? If you're

616
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: enjoying how I work, I would be so grateful if

617
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: you could hit pause on the show and pop into

618
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to this from and

619
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: leave a review. You can do this by scrolling to

620
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: the bottom of the show notes and clinging on the

621
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: stars or writing a comment. And aside from the warm,

622
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: fuzzy feelings that this will give both you and me,

623
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: it helps other people find out about how I work.

624
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: So thank you in advance. Okay, Sammy Jay will be

625
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: back after this short break and we'll be talking about

626
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: how he overcomes writer's block on the topic of writing

627
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: things that are funny. I imagine that you must have

628
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: experienced writer's block many, many times. What are your strategies

629
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: for overcoming that.

630
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 3: I think I've helped a lot of the moment with

631
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: the weekly TV spot by two things, and that is

632
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 3: why I write it with two co writers, so good friends,

633
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: Chris but Donald and James Pender. So every Monday we

634
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: get together online in different states and we talk about

635
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 3: the news, we see what you know, what we find interesting,

636
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: and what we find funny, and we throw things around.

637
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: So obviously that's a huge help having someone to collaborate with,

638
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 3: and I've always loved collaborating on whenever I'm writing, it's

639
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: far less lonely, and secondly, for us, it's the deadline.

640
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: We then have to submit a script by Wednesday morning,

641
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: because I obviously needed to run past the lawyers, and

642
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 3: then they needed for production, and then we need.

643
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: To film it.

644
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 3: And so if I could take this week as an example,

645
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: we're doing a Royal family yoga sketch and that was

646
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 3: still being written while I was sitting in the makeup chair.

647
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 2: Like I was, there were talking through different moves like

648
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 2: is in bred Corgi an appropriate yoga move? Who knows?

649
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 3: We'll find out that the regularity of that is so helpful,

650
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: as I'm sure the listeners will appreciate. Like you know,

651
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 3: there's nothing like a deadline, and you get to the

652
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 3: point where you can't overthink it. Now I've had months

653
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 3: before to write a show or we're going to show,

654
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: and you know, still leave it to the final week.

655
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 3: So that really helps. But I think, and I'm not

656
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: the first person to say this, but just having something

657
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 3: doubt is putting something on the page.

658
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: You can't edit a blank page.

659
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 3: And even if you write something that is just terrible,

660
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 3: at least then you can look at it and ask

661
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 3: yourself you think it's terrible and the instead about fixing it,

662
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: So something is better than nothing.

663
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: I think always, what's collaboration been like with other writers

664
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: and doing that virtually as opposed to face to face.

665
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: How have you made virtual collaboration work for comedy writing?

666
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 3: Well, of course it came about just by necessity last

667
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: year with COVID, So that was just something we were

668
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: thrown into like everyone else. And it was tricky, and

669
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: it's always tricky because, particularly comedy writing, to be in

670
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: the same room and just to be able to know

671
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 3: one of you has a line or burst do a performance,

672
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 3: and there is such an energy and a rhythm to

673
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 3: that that you cannot replicate on a screen. But we've

674
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 3: learnt to get as close as we can. It certainly

675
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: didn't end up affecting. I think last year was our

676
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 3: third series at the Weekly Spot, and we did I

677
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: think some of our best sketches when we look back

678
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: on it. It's just a case of having a video

679
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: on so you can see each other's faces, and learning

680
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: not to interrupt, for letting someone finish their train of thought,

681
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: all the basics of zoom communication. Look, I'll be honestly,

682
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: I'm spinning it positively because we've all made it work,

683
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: but there's nothing like being in a room with someone.

684
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: That's just how I feel, honestly, and I'm hoping we

685
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: can do more of it soon.

686
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: What is the difference, do you think, because I find

687
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: that a lot of our corporate clients at Inventium lamenting

688
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: the fact that work will probably be some kind of

689
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: hybrid mix where people work from home and work from

690
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: the office and kind of split their time between the two.

691
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: And they say, well, real, true collaboration can't really happen

692
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: unless we're face to face. And I must say I

693
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: disagree with that, but I want to know for you,

694
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: why is it that that kind of that real magic

695
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: presumably can truly only happen when you're in the same room.

696
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: I'm sort of disagreeing with myself, I guess in a

697
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 3: way because, as I said, like some of our best

698
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: work last year was done remotely. I think it's just

699
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 3: more challenging because you do have to focus your mind and.

700
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 2: Your energy a little more. And I think it can

701
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 2: all depend on the moment. Like right now.

702
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 3: Chatting to you, we're not in the same room, but

703
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: I feel like this is a conversation which is based

704
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: on words so I think it works perfectly. This it's

705
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: it's if we're in the same room, it might almost

706
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: affect us too much because where there's other cues and

707
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 3: inputs that are mucking us up, you know, like.

708
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 2: For example, I'm wearing a man kin. He up, now

709
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 2: that would distracting for it.

710
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: I want to co incident, so am I.

711
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 3: Put as far as from me as a comedy writer,

712
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 3: being in the same room, there's just.

713
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: So much nuance. Even if you're pitching an idea. You

714
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: might pitch an idea.

715
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: That is aligned that is not funny on the screen,

716
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 3: not funny written on a page, but you need to

717
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: see someone told physicalityly, for example, a yoga sketch if

718
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 3: you're trying to come up with funny yoga moves.

719
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 2: But that's an example of this tangible thing. You can

720
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 2: do it. We did do it.

721
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: But it's just hard, that's all. But I certainly also

722
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: have been involved in you know, other business meetings or

723
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: just chats where it's absolutely not affected in any way

724
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: by the fact that you're on a screen. I would

725
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: just argue that, yeah, it's I think I've learnt in

726
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: practice that being in a room, it's right down to

727
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: like you're in a room. Let's say there's a screen

728
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: that's broken or something, or there's something on the floor

729
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: that you will see at the same time and you

730
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 3: can comment on or something. All those little weird chicks

731
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 3: in life that happened, and it's just that shared experience

732
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: which brings.

733
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: You closer together.

734
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 3: It's nothing to do with the work you're doing, but

735
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 3: it's about just being more comfortable with each other.

736
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: So are there strategies that you've used or toyed around

737
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: with to help improve virtual collaboration?

738
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: The really dull stuff, but the most important stuff is

739
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: the punctuality thing. Because it's so easy online to say, oh,

740
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: I'll be five minutes late, or just drop a message sorry,

741
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 3: someone's at the door, all that sort of thing, and

742
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 3: that can be so frustrating when you're trying to come

743
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 3: together at the same time. And I'm as guilty as

744
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: the next person. So I think this year, as writers,

745
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: we're definitely trying to be far more punctual, which just

746
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: helps because it adds up. You know, you go through

747
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: a couple of weeks and you've lost collectively an hour

748
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: or two of just waiting around.

749
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 2: For each other.

750
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 3: I also, because I'm the script editor of the show,

751
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: in that I have the final say on what words

752
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: go to wear and everything. I'm trying to get better

753
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 3: at drawing a line time wise on the conversations at

754
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: times when we particularly as writers, there is always another

755
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 3: idea that could be out there. It's never finished, it's

756
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: never perfect. It ends up being whatever you did in

757
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: the time you had. So I'm getting better at that's saying, Okay,

758
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 3: we need now to commit to this idea. Let's just

759
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: roll on and back to that idea that you didn't

760
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 3: get something on the page, and if it's not.

761
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: Great, you keep on working to make it better.

762
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 3: But I think that time structure for me is the

763
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 3: key because I no longer live in the world I

764
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: used to, which was I'm going to do a comedy

765
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: festival show.

766
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: I've got three months to write it.

767
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: And I'll just mosey along at my own pace and

768
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 3: i have a really reductive day, and then I'll have

769
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: two days off and i'll have a sandwich and I'll

770
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 3: get back to it. I don't have that luxury, and

771
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 3: I think my writing is probably way better for it.

772
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: I want to ask about being funny, and how do

773
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: you write your jokes and think about your jokes. I'm

774
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: partly reluctant to because before we hit records, you're like, oh,

775
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: I'm really this is fun doing a business podcast and

776
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: not a humor or like comedy podcast. And I'm like,

777
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: oh god, am I just about to ask you the

778
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,240
Speaker 1: exact same questions here asked on comedy podcasts.

779
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: A comedy podcast wouldn't ask you about how you write,

780
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: you know, it would be are all about, you know.

781
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: Trying to be smart asses. Yeah, getting one ups on

782
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 2: each other.

783
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: Because I'm really fascinated by the idea of how people

784
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: can bring more levity and humor to work, particularly office work,

785
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: where you don't necessarily think about that. So I feel

786
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: like there's probably a lot that listeners can learn in

787
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: terms of thinking about how you as a comedian. Right joke? So,

788
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: can you tell me how do you write a joke?

789
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Are there certain ways, certain formulas or like go to

790
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: tricks and stuff?

791
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 2: Well?

792
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 3: Well, okay, So I do feel like there are two

793
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: questions here, because one is the workplace you would think,

794
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: which is a whole different discussion. But I'll go first

795
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: to my death creative side, since that's where the question

796
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 3: ended in that that is the question you ask me,

797
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 3: I should be from a politicians.

798
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: Look, it was probably like a triple Barreld.

799
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: Question, which yeah, no, but you're tricking that. I see

800
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: what you're doing. You want me to do that? And

801
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: there were okay.

802
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 3: So on the process of writing, sadly there is no

803
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: simple answer because if there was, you know, we'd all

804
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: be baking heaps of money from comedy and everyone would

805
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 3: be doing it like it is hard and there's no

806
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: consistent thing. But certainly for the weekly ABC TV spot

807
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: that I do, I think, what is the world that

808
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 3: would best reflect this? And who is the target that

809
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 3: That's the two key questions. So another one of my

810
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: characters is the government coach, who's basically it is a

811
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 3: footy coach who basically talks like this in the same

812
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 3: way that after a footy match finishes, you know, feel

813
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 3: grid to the boys and you put it.

814
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 2: A bit of there.

815
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 3: But he does press conferences in that style talking about

816
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: federal politics and so there there are probably two targets.

817
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: There's a little bit of a target of the Aussie

818
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 3: macho sports culture that bubbles away, but eagerly it's still

819
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 3: back on the politicians. With my yoga sketches. That's much

820
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 3: more a chance to write jokes about a topic in

821
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 3: a very different format because it's interestingly the punchlines are

822
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: actually based around the moves themselves, so you might do

823
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: a backflip move, or you might do it standing on

824
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: one foot or foot in the mouth move, and so

825
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: it's like you're picking up a different tool or a

826
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: different I don't know color of paint. I'm not a

827
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 3: good paint based metaphor amantha, But in terms of my

828
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 3: I think it comes back to those rules that a

829
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 3: blank page or blank script is terrifying. But once you

830
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 3: have some limits both time and creatively, then you can

831
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 3: really fly. And so last year we did, for example,

832
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: a parody of Grand Designs where I was presenting as.

833
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: The host in a sort of Kevin McLeod impression.

834
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: And we were talking about the Australian Budget House which

835
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: the treasure was trying to build, so it was all

836
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: about the flat rate, the flat tax rouf structure and

837
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: the surplus room that couldn't be built and all this

838
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: sort of stuff. So again Grand Designs was never the

839
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: target of that joke. It was all within the world

840
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 3: and using the language of that So I think that

841
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 3: is as much as I can answer that question creatively.

842
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 3: In this instance, it's about formats that we enjoy and

843
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: being really faithful to those, because you could always get

844
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: cheaper laughs by then ruining the format. But for us,

845
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 3: it's the believability that people will often watch that, or

846
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 3: they'll watch an antiq's road show parenty we're doing They say, man,

847
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: it felt just like the real show. And I think

848
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 3: that's really satisfying, because then once you believe the world,

849
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: then you can you're free to laugh for you're free

850
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 3: to get really dark with your choices of subjects.

851
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 1: I do want to get onto workplace humor, but I

852
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: guess another way perhaps into understanding how you think about comedy.

853
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: Let's just say I do a lot of keynote speaking,

854
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: and I'm often thinking how can I inject more humor

855
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: into this? So if I said, hey, Sammy, you just

856
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: watch this ten minute section of this talk that I

857
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: have to give to some big corporate and can you

858
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: help me find some opportunities to inject humor? What would

859
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: you be looking for? How would you be coaching me

860
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: on that?

861
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: Oh? About fifteen thousand dollars? Sorry for me.

862
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 3: Comedy is always about surprise. It's about and Tim Ferguson

863
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 3: writes about this in his book The Cheeky Monkey, which

864
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: is all about sitcoms and comedy writing. But there's an

865
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: argument that every time we laugh, it's basically a primeval

866
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 3: sort of physical reaction. It's like we think we're about

867
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,479
Speaker 3: to die, but we're not so because so we laugh

868
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 3: because it's a relief love, because something has broken in

869
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: the matrix of what we expect. And that's been my

870
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: sense of give us since day one. Back at school,

871
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: I used to pop up an assembly to do like

872
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 3: a report but then just talk about something completely irrelevant.

873
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: Or if you look back at any comedy that you likes,

874
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 3: so much of it is about surprise. So when it

875
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 3: comes to a keynote, if you were performing a keynote

876
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 3: at what is ostensibly a very serious or illustrious business occasion,

877
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 3: but then you went to the next slide and there

878
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: was a picture of a frog for no reason, then

879
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 3: I would love that now even better if that frog

880
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: was related to what you were presenting on them, if

881
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 3: there was some sort of accidental pun.

882
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: So I'm really thinking on my.

883
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: Feet here, But let's say you were presenting at a

884
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: kitchen where conference, and I'm trying to think of what

885
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: would rhyme with knife or forka matter if you were

886
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 3: googling fork or knife or spoon.

887
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 2: Then you got me perfect.

888
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: You presently had a kitchen wear conference and you've got

889
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: a very serious lde about the revenues and accounts that

890
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 3: you're going through them, and then a picture of pig

891
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 3: comes up and you go, oh, sorry, I was actually

892
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 3: googling gifts for this, but.

893
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: I actually wrote pork his fk. Sorry, now that's lain.

894
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 3: However, However, then five minutes later another pig comes up.

895
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: You're like, oh, sorry again, sorry, And that's the point

896
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 3: people would laugh, because then they'll be like, oh, hang on,

897
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 3: she's really doubling down here, like she's committing to the

898
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 3: pork stupidity. And then five minutes later there's like five picks,

899
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 3: and then you start talking about you know, four revenues,

900
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,399
Speaker 3: and then you've got suddenly a large pork revenue based

901
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 3: and then you've got to you've got someone who starts

902
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 3: talking about the pork industry in depth, and you're like, man,

903
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 3: that cost me like three thousand dollars to secure in

904
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 3: that giant pork talent and I've wasted my money and

905
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: you just build the absurdity. But it all comes back

906
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: to one stupid, silly misunderstanding. There's a like it all,

907
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: you've got to read the room. Maybe they really want

908
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 3: to know about fawks. But it's that moment of for me,

909
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: it's the surprise, and then it's the commitment. So oh,

910
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 3: he's a surprise. We're committing to play school talk politics.

911
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 3: But then you do four minutes of play school going

912
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 3: into really in depth political analysis in that form, that's

913
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 3: the commitment.

914
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: And also using a callback strategy where you're going back

915
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: to what you've introduced, got a laugh and sholve that

916
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: come back to it to get that laugh.

917
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 3: Totally because you made the investments. Like it's like anything

918
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 3: you want to like get the return.

919
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: You don't know, it's not a burden. If people laugh

920
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: a little bit, you can milk it more.

921
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: But tell me how do you bring humor like into

922
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: a staff meeting at ABC? That sounds so serious it

923
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: is And well, it's all about the people you work with,

924
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: of course, so I can you know my workplace here is.

925
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 3: It's pretty heightened in terms of it's all public. You

926
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 3: know a lot of presenters who are having to deal with,

927
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 3: particularly in the pandemics, really serious stuff, but it's also

928
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: people who are passionate about their job. And any workplace

929
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: that doesn't have laughter, I think has got a problem.

930
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 3: Like the people humans laugh, and it's how we can

931
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 3: and it's how you even in dire circumstances. It's how

932
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: we unwind and blow off steam.

933
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,479
Speaker 2: So for me, it's.

934
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,400
Speaker 3: Always that the slight absurdities or someone will make a

935
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 3: suggestion or a slip of the tongue and there's an obvious,

936
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 3: unintended repercussion that you could sort of bring up. But

937
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 3: the comedy involves risk, that's the thing. It involves you

938
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 3: being a bit vulnerable and putting yourself out there. My

939
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 3: first and really only like office wide workplace prank of

940
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 3: joke here was we had the security passes all switched

941
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: out at ABC because of part of it like a

942
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 3: national security audit. So we had to get new swhite

943
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: cars with photos, and we all had to send our

944
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 3: photo into the security office, and one poor guy in

945
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 3: the building accidentally hit like the all ABC staff email

946
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 3: and so everyone just got this giant photo him smiling

947
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 3: like it was with my thousands of ABC employees and

948
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 3: it's just had me like a big photo like no

949
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: may cup and just like take it to the car

950
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 3: pack or something. And then he had to send like

951
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 3: a really sincere apology to everyone.

952
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 2: But it gets so annoyed about being on the wrong.

953
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 3: It was like, is this guy a big face in

954
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: my and so I saw that, and I think it

955
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,439
Speaker 3: was like fourth th in the morning, so I still

956
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 3: was in my pre banana sort of don't care face,

957
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 3: but I just took a big photo of my face

958
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 3: and just sent it back to everyone at the ABC

959
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 3: with the hashtag I Stand with Anthony, who was the

960
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 3: name of this guy. And I must have had more

961
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 3: attention and comments from that from stuff that I hate

962
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 3: they have some actual work because because it was like

963
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 3: an in joke, it was only to ABC stuff. And

964
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: it also pricked this bubble because this poor guy felt

965
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 3: he obviously felt like bad that he does something wrong,

966
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 3: and it was also serious and it was all of

967
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: security and I just pricked that bubble. My my real

968
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 3: hope was that everyone else, like an I'm Spartacus moment,

969
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: everyone else would start sending back their head shops, but

970
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: no one. No one had the carriage I really loved taking.

971
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: But It's like there's a classic like no one has

972
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: to be a comedian to do that sort of stuff.

973
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: It's just I still had to like go, Okay, this

974
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: is going to annoys some people because all people are

975
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: upset about their inboxes.

976
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 2: But it's funny, So just do it. I think you

977
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: have to.

978
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 3: It's the bit of you that stops out of fear.

979
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 3: Back to what I was saying about fear some time ago,

980
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: it's that's the bit you just have to take a

981
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 3: breath and go, look, you know what's the worst it

982
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 3: can happen?

983
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: You know, how do you get over that fear of

984
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 1: a joke failing?

985
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: Well, you fail enough that you just know that you survived.

986
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 2: I think that's it.

987
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 3: It's it's back to the early gigs for me, where

988
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: you know that I've done bad gigs. They'll do bad

989
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 3: ones in future, but you know it's not the end

990
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 3: of the world, and you know that at any given

991
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 3: moment there are so many worst things happening in the

992
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 3: world that someone not laughing at a crappy comedian's joke

993
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: that you wake up the next day and your crack on.

994
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: And I think the benefit of having a slight profile

995
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 3: at least for ABC audiences. Now, I feel like that

996
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: that they will they know me enough that unless I

997
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 3: do some horrific joke that's completely inappropriate, they go, oh,

998
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 3: that's been a crappy joke. But you know it's Sammy.

999
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: He'll look forward to seeing what he says next. And

1000
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 3: I think until the moment no one is looking forward

1001
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: to seeing what we do next. Then you're going, Okay, that's.

1002
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: Such a great way of looking at it. Now, Sammie,

1003
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: I am going to finish on time because I'm just

1004
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 1: going to ask you one more question, and that is

1005
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: for people that want to consume more of what you're doing,

1006
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: what are the best ways for listeners to do that

1007
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: if they.

1008
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: Would like to listen to me five point thirty in

1009
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 3: the morning Melbourne time and dreg In might I have

1010
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 3: some listeners in Albuquerque in New Mexico, which is exciting.

1011
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 3: So it's wherever you may be five thirty am Melbourne

1012
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 3: time Monday to Friday can tune into the radio show,

1013
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: and that you can chine into that via the ABC website.

1014
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: So if you search for Sammy Joe ABC Radio, you'll

1015
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 3: find the official website and you can stream that from

1016
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 3: anywhere as to my comedy sketches. You can find those

1017
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: on my Facebook page, so just Sammy Jay Comedian. You

1018
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 3: search for that and find me. You can follow the

1019
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: page and every Thursday I put out a new sketch

1020
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: and that goes up there and it's also available you

1021
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,439
Speaker 3: can watch it on TV if you're in Australia before

1022
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 3: the news on a Thursday night as well, and you

1023
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 3: can also.

1024
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: Listen to the radio.

1025
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: I just completely lost, like forgot the basic analog methods

1026
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: of consuming me Andmantha. But you can listen to the

1027
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 3: radio as well or TV. But online is really, let's

1028
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 3: be honest, that's where it's at.

1029
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: That is where it's at. Sammy. I've loved chatting to you.

1030
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: This has just been an absolute delight. I wish you

1031
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: didn't have a staff meeting, but you do, and you

1032
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 1: need to get to that long time like a loser,

1033
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: that's right, You've got like a job and stuff to do.

1034
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: So Sammie, thank you so much for your time. I've

1035
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: just love chatting to you.

1036
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: Thank you, Amantha. It's a genuine pleasure.

1037
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 3: As I said, it's in the comedy world, it's it's

1038
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 3: not often you sort of just get to talk through

1039
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 3: your actual sort of you know work.

1040
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying

1041
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: How I Work, you might want to hit subscribe if

1042
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: you haven't already, because next week on the show, I

1043
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: have the CEO of car Sales, Cameron McIntyre, and we're

1044
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: going to be talking about how he keeps composed and

1045
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: cool under the pressure of leading a four point five

1046
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: billion dollar business. So hit subscribe and you will be

1047
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,479
Speaker 1: alerted as to when new episodes drop. How I Work

1048
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.

1049
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was the wonderful Jenna Cooder,

1050
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: and thank you to Martin Nimber who did the audio

1051
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: mix and makes everything sounds better than it would have otherwise.

1052
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: See you next time.