1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. Before 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: I get into today's mini episode, I have an exciting 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: program launching on October twenty one, which you can be 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: part of from wherever in the world you're listening to 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: this podcast. From the program is called our Workday Reinvention Program, 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: which is something I've been working on at Inventium for 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: the last two years. So it's a six week program 12 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: designed to reinvent the way that you work. The program 13 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: contains a whole bunch of science backed ways to have 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: a more productive, fulfilling, and happier work life, and we've 15 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: gotten some amazing results from the program so far. Not 16 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: only have we increased people's productivity by around twenty two percent, 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: which is only one day per week's worth of extra time, 18 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: but we've also increased people's engagement, energy levels, job satisfaction, 19 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: and even general well being at work by up to 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: twenty eight percent and that's just within six weeks. So 21 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: if you're a listener of How I Work, go to 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: Bitley bit dot ly Forward slash Workday program. That's Bitly 23 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: Forward slash work Day program, and listeners of How I 24 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: Work can get a seventy five dollars discount on the 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: cost of the program. Just end to the code how 26 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: I Work. That's one word how I Work at check 27 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: out and get that discount and I'll link to all 28 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: that in the show notes too. So the program starts 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: on October twenty one, and if you're a listener of 30 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: the show, I think that you'll absolutely love this program 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: and get a stack of value from it. So this 32 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: episode is another my favorite tip episode. The title's probably 33 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: pretty self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: of the interviews I conduct. I use this format because 35 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: I sometimes feel myself as a podcast listener that I 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: just want to get in, get the most amount of 37 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: value from an epist, and then get out. So I 38 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: attended TED twenty nineteen earlier this year in Vancouver and 39 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: recorded a bunch of interviews with some very inspiring speakers 40 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: and attendees. While I was over there, Priya Parker was 41 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: one of those interviews. So Priya teaches people to gather 42 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: better at home, work, school, and in our communities. She's 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: the best selling author of the Art of Gathering, which 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: one of my favorite books, and is also a strategic 45 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: facilitator with a backgrounding conflict resolution. Her company, Thrive Labs, 46 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: has worked with organizations has varied as MoMA, the World 47 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: Economic Forum, and the International Finance Corporation on strategy, Vision 48 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: and Purpose. Now in this extract, we talk about Priya's 49 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: approach to meetings with clients and the role that language plays. 50 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of the gatherings in 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: your life, and I'm interested in the concept of a salesmaning. 52 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: I don't know what that looks like for you, but 53 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: you do a lot of facilitation for all sorts of 54 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: companies all over the world. And I know one of 55 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: the things that you talk about in your book is 56 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: that you can't have a gathering defined by a category. 57 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: So finacire sales meeting is not a real reason to gather. 58 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: But I'm curious, like for meetings where you're meeting with 59 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: a new organization that you may or may not be 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: working with, how do you kind of plan for that 61 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: form of gathering. 62 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 2: Well, the reason why you don't start with a category 63 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: is because categories usually come with scripts in our mind. 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: So sales meeting, I get an image of I don't know, 65 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: a bunch of people in suits kind of trying to 66 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 2: sell something and wagging my fingers. But your listeners aren't 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: going to hear. And so even with the sales meeting, 68 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 2: I would first ask what is the purpose of this meeting? 69 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: Is it to make a relationship. Is it to begin 70 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: a long time trusted relationship. Is it to sell a 71 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 2: product by the end of a sixty minute time together? 72 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 2: Is it to make people cognizant of a problem they 73 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 2: had that they didn't believe there was a solution for. 74 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: But those are very different purposes. And often, whether it's 75 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: a sales meeting or a leadership off site or a 76 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: orientation to employee orientation, we assume that the category gives 77 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: us our marching orders. And so with a sales meeting, 78 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: regardless of what it was for, I would first ask, 79 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: I mean ideally both sides, but if you're the host, 80 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: what is your desired outcome for this meeting? And not 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: have lines in your head of what that has to 82 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 2: look like? 83 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 1: Can you give me an example of maybe a meeting 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: that you've had, like let's say in the last year, 85 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, the first time that you met with an 86 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: organization that was potentially going to be one that you 87 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: work with, Like, how like what your preparation process looked 88 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: like for that. 89 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 2: Well, so I'm a group conflict resolution facilitator, right, So 90 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: I tend to work with organizations and companies. Uh when 91 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: when somebody realizes, ah, so my sales pipeline looks very different, 92 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: which is, oh God, please help. And what I do 93 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: in my first meetings and the majority of my meetings, 94 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: to be honest, are telephones telephone calls in terms of 95 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: sales meetings because my you know I what I My 96 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 2: service is to help people diagnose their challenge or problem 97 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 2: and figure out how to design a gathering that would 98 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 2: help them address that problem. And so, for example, if 99 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: an organization wants to rethink how they fund da mentally 100 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: pay their partners, and it's a very complicated thing to change, 101 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: not only from a financial perspective, but from an identity perspective, 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: I would think about in my first few meetings with them, 103 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: whether they or not they wanted to bring me in 104 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: to facilitate those conversations, I'm really thinking about, how are 105 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: they answering my questions. Are they honest with their answers? 106 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: Are their answers to perfect? Are they trying to sell 107 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: me on a perfect organization, which in which case they 108 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: don't need my services? And so a huge part of 109 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 2: my goal when I work with organizations or groups is 110 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: to see if there's fit. 111 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 1: Hmmm, and so what like what else are you listening for? 112 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: To see if there's fear. 113 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 2: I listen to the language that they use to describe 114 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: their challenges or their culture. I listen to see if 115 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 2: whether or not they use active voice or passive voice. So, 116 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 2: for example, every year we have a conference versus every 117 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 2: year we host a conference. There's a very subtle difference, 118 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 2: but we host a conference assumes a certain level of agency, 119 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: whereas we have a conference assume some level of inheritance. 120 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: This is something that happens all the time. This exists. 121 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: I don't know if I really wanted to exist or 122 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: had any decision on making a fact that we host 123 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: this conference. And I listen very closely to the language 124 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: that they use to better understand how much power they 125 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: perceive having over the things they're talking about. 126 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: That's fascinating. I love the subtlety in that, Like, what's 127 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: another example where you're using language to get really important 128 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: cues from the conversation. 129 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: You know, I'm biracial, I'm half Indian, half white American, 130 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: and some of it is how people assume. So sometimes 131 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: I'm brought in for things related to diversity. So I 132 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: was looking at a conference at the panels that they 133 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: had decided, and you can tell a lot about an 134 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: organization based on the titles that they give to think, 135 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: So the titles of a session, the titles of a panel, 136 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: you can tell how people the assumptions people make. So 137 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: the title of this panel was diversity necessary evil or 138 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: competitive advantage. And to me, either one of those framings 139 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: is not what diversity is for. And there's so much 140 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: in the framing of their assumptions that it made me 141 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: understand why they were having huge problems with diversity at 142 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 2: their organization. Because if you either think that it's you 143 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: would do it because it is. You know, it makes 144 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: you look good, and it would you know it's not 145 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,599 Speaker 2: just intrinsically good, or because you have to. Either way, 146 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: it shows a mindset about a topic that's very difficult 147 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: to change. So often if you're listening to people's language, 148 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 2: you can tell their assumptions about out the world through 149 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 2: the language that they use. 150 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: Now on the other side of languages, questions and I'm 151 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: wondering what it like. Do you have go to or 152 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: favorite questions for certain types of gatherings? 153 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: Yes, so, uh, you know, I think one is just 154 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 2: tell me more so we radically underestimate the the it's 155 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: the journalist trick of just asking people to say more. 156 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: And often within a group, people are very uncomfortable with silence. 157 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: So as a leader or as a facilitator, if you 158 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 2: can hold silence a little bit longer, that's often when 159 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: people actually say what's going on or say something real 160 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: because they're they're on discomfort with silence is greater than 161 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: their discomfort with blurting something out. But different questions. You know, 162 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: at a for example that's a team dinner, to op 163 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 2: for asking questions to get people's stories rather than the opinions. 164 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: So tell me about a time where blah blah blah 165 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: blah blah blah, or what is an experience in your 166 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: life that nobody else around the table has, you know, 167 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 2: would know about as it relates to whatever the topic 168 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: is that you're talking about, as it relates to merger 169 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 2: and acquisition, as it relates to selling something you don't 170 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: believe in, as it relates to hiring, as it relates to, 171 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: you know, whatever you're talking about, and then otherwise, questions 172 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 2: that help people talk about the parts that aren't working. 173 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 2: So that's great, we know that this product is amazing, 174 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: or we know that we know that this wouldn't be 175 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: a you know, initiative if it didn't you know, if 176 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: it didn't have good attributes. Tell us about your worries 177 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 2: about it, tell us about, you know, what keeps you 178 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: up at night, tell us about elements that you believe 179 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: might go wrong, and basically getting asking questions that trigger 180 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: people to get off script. 181 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: Helloi may again. I loved hearing haw Pria thinks about 182 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: language and the details of what people are really saying saying. 183 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: I feel like this is a pretty rare thing, given 184 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: many people struggle to stay fully present in most conversations, 185 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: let alone hone in on the subtleties behind what people 186 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: are saying. So I hope you found this perspective useful 187 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: and that, you know, maybe it might even impact on 188 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: how you approach conversations and meetings that you have this week. 189 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: So that is it for today. If you like this excerpt, 190 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: you might want to listen to my full chat with Prayer, 191 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: which I'll link to in the show notes. And if 192 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: you're enjoying how I work, I'd love it if you 193 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: could take five seconds to leave a review in Apple 194 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. So leaving reviews 195 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: actually makes it easier for other people to find this podcast. 196 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: And thank you to all the wonderful people who have 197 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: left five star reviews and written some lovely words. It 198 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: truly does make my day, so thank you very much 199 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 1: and I will see you next time.