WEBVTT - Nick Sweeny: SANTA CAMP - DIRECTOR

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<v Speaker 1>It's in the news today, but it was actually on

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<v Speaker 1>TV Reload the podcast last week Nebline. Welcome back guys

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<v Speaker 1>to TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and on

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast I go behind the scenes with the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>players in television. Each episode you will get a front

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<v Speaker 1>row seat with content makers like executive producers, writers, editors,

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<v Speaker 1>and casting agents, plus the talent that we see on

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<v Speaker 1>our screens. TV Reload reloads the shows that you are

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<v Speaker 1>currently watching and gives you a better insight into our

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<v Speaker 1>television industry and our streaming services. Today, on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>I have director Nick Sweeney who is here to discuss

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<v Speaker 1>his latest HBO documentary called Santa Camp, which premier is

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<v Speaker 1>today on Foxtel. The feature film is a heartwarming true

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<v Speaker 1>story following one organization's journey to incorporate more diversity in

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<v Speaker 1>the Santa industry. Santa Camp is about Santa's in America

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<v Speaker 1>going on a summer camp each year. But I can

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<v Speaker 1>tell you it is so much more than that. I

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<v Speaker 1>personally came across this documentary and fell in love with

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<v Speaker 1>it. It's not just a Christmas film explores the themes about

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<v Speaker 1>diversity and inclusion in a way that I really didn't expect,

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<v Speaker 1>and I also fell in love with these different Santas,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure you will too. I will ask the

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<v Speaker 1>director Nick, how we came across this story, where and

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<v Speaker 1>what were the biggest surprises he unearthed. Along the way,

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<v Speaker 1>we will talk about the need for community and where

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<v Speaker 1>we are at with ignorance towards minorities. However, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>started with today's guest. I'd like to welcome Nick Sweeney

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<v Speaker 1>to TV reload.

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<v Speaker 2>How could this exist? How has nobody done a documentary

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<v Speaker 2>about this? The issue we run into is that people

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<v Speaker 2>just have a very specific idea of what Sander Struld

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<v Speaker 2>look like. When I started making a documentary about Christmas

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<v Speaker 2>and Santa Clauses, I had no idea that I would

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<v Speaker 2>be standing face to face with white supremacists.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to be able to be black Santa for

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<v Speaker 3>other families.

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<v Speaker 2>There's all this pressure that people have around you know

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<v Speaker 2>what their Christmas should be and what the censor should

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<v Speaker 2>look like. Have you always seen Santa's being white? Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>the variety of stanswers that come at any differentiation. For

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of misunderstanding of prejudice just comes from the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that people aren't really exposed to people that aren't

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 3>If I saw a Translanta when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 3>and what.

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<v Speaker 2>I made a difference for you? Yeah, I think audiences

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<v Speaker 2>don't want to feel lectured or preached to or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>judged by the things that they're watching.

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<v Speaker 3>Heinick, Thanks for coming on the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Then, you know, Santa Camp is an interesting idea for

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<v Speaker 1>a documentary because I don't even think I realized what

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<v Speaker 1>I was in for.

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<v Speaker 2>I had no idea that this thing even existed. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I had been interested in how Santa Clauses learned to

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Claus and I had started looking at these different

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<v Speaker 2>Santa schools that they have in America, and it being America,

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<v Speaker 2>of course there was a summer camp for Santa Clauses,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, a real summer camp, like a summer

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<v Speaker 2>camp where they sleep in bunk beds and where they

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<v Speaker 2>go out on the lake and where they sit around

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<v Speaker 2>a campfire telling stories. And as soon as I found

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<v Speaker 2>out about that as a documentary filmmaker, my mind just

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<v Speaker 2>started spinning, like how could this exist? How has nobody

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<v Speaker 2>done a documentary about this? Like where is this? How

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<v Speaker 2>many of them are there, and so I made contact

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<v Speaker 2>with the organizers of it, this established Santa Claus group

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<v Speaker 2>called the New England Santa Society. And I mean, all

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<v Speaker 2>of this just sounds so like surreal and far fetched,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's all real. And so I made contact with

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<v Speaker 2>them and I just asked them all these questions, like

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<v Speaker 2>how many Santas go and they were like around one hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, what, Like what do they learn? And

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<v Speaker 2>then they told me about some of the courses and

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<v Speaker 2>then I was like, and is there anything this year

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<v Speaker 2>that be a little bit different, Like is the Santa

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<v Speaker 2>industry changing? And they said, yeah, we've been getting requests

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<v Speaker 2>for Santas from different backgrounds, like requests for black Santas

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<v Speaker 2>or Santas who are LGBTQ, and you know, we don't

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<v Speaker 2>have those people in our membership, so we've been wanting

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<v Speaker 2>to do outreach. And as soon as they told me that,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, Wow, this is about so much more

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<v Speaker 2>than just this completely ridiculous and insane summer camp. This

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<v Speaker 2>is about this like big thing that's happening in the world.

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<v Speaker 1>People who are listening to this now they probably haven't

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<v Speaker 1>seen this documentary, so which just you just have to

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<v Speaker 1>watch this movie because it's so much more than what

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<v Speaker 1>you think you're getting into. And I can imagine that's

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<v Speaker 1>how you were. You're like, this sounds amazing, But I

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<v Speaker 1>don't even think you would have known what you were.

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<v Speaker 3>Going to unearth by making, oh, this story.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, when I started making a documentary about

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas and Santa Clauses, I had no idea that I

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<v Speaker 2>would be standing face to face with you know, white supremacists,

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<v Speaker 2>like the groups that you know were involved in the

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<v Speaker 2>January sixth insurrection. And I had no idea that I

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<v Speaker 2>would be, you know, hearing some of the stories of

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<v Speaker 2>what the Santors that we follow go through, which is

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<v Speaker 2>very heartbreaking. One of those incredibly heartbreaking stories is the

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<v Speaker 2>Black center that we follow. His name is Chris. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a huge Christmas fan and he had put up an

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<v Speaker 2>inflatable black Santa Claus on his lawn and received a

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<v Speaker 2>racist letter about it, and he was, you know, he

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<v Speaker 2>was so shocked by this and taken aback that his

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<v Speaker 2>way of pushing back against that racism was to go

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<v Speaker 2>to Santa Camp and become Santa Claus himself for his community.

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<v Speaker 2>So I certainly never thought that this would be as

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<v Speaker 2>kind of multi dimensional. When I started making it, I

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<v Speaker 2>thought it might be a fun Christmas film. I never

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<v Speaker 2>thought it'd be you know, it's very high stakes and

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<v Speaker 2>dramatic and sometimes it's very heartbreaking.

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<v Speaker 1>Well to me, this isn't a story about Santa or Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's about division and communities and the example

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<v Speaker 1>of how far we still the examples of how far

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<v Speaker 1>we still have to go when it comes to tolerance

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<v Speaker 1>and equality. And that's not what you think you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to get when you're going to watch a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of men and women go to Santa Camp.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really not. I think people see Christmas movie and

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<v Speaker 2>they think it's going to be like Reese with a

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<v Speaker 2>Spoon loses her job in the city and goes home

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<v Speaker 2>to the town that she grew up in and falls

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<v Speaker 2>in love with her high school sweetheart. And that's not

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<v Speaker 2>what Santa Camp is. And I'm really grateful that we

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<v Speaker 2>got to make a Christmas movie that really like up

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<v Speaker 2>ends people's expectations and hopefully makes them laugh and cry.

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<v Speaker 2>I still cry sometimes, Actually quite a few times, I

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<v Speaker 2>find myself weeping at some of the things that we

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<v Speaker 2>show in the film.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you think, though, do you think that people

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<v Speaker 1>are set up to be surprised by the themes in

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<v Speaker 1>this film.

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<v Speaker 2>I think people will be very surprised by what they

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<v Speaker 2>see in the film. I think they kind of will

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<v Speaker 2>go in and expecting it to be about, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>these what they might think are kind of one dimensional

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas performers, right Like, people might see this film and

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<v Speaker 2>think it's going to be you know, about bleaching your

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<v Speaker 2>beard or you know, dealing with kids that pee on

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<v Speaker 2>your leg, which are obviously, you know, real problems that

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<v Speaker 2>Santa's do have to think about. But I think they'll

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<v Speaker 2>be surprised to see how kind of big and important

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<v Speaker 2>the themes that we follow are. And I mean another

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<v Speaker 2>theme that's really fascinating is within the Sansor society that

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<v Speaker 2>organizes this summer camp, the Missus clauses have been calling

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<v Speaker 2>for equal pay and equal billing. And it's incredible that

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<v Speaker 2>within this sensor community these same issues that affect women

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<v Speaker 2>all throughout the world. These issues are bubbling to the surface.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes they may be dressed as Missus clauses and

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<v Speaker 2>they may have like Christmas bells on, but they're still

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<v Speaker 2>talking about these real issues that affect people like equality

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<v Speaker 2>and representation and equal pay, and it's really fun to

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<v Speaker 2>see how they like grapple with these issues in the film.

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<v Speaker 1>I just assumed that you wanted to go into this

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<v Speaker 1>land of Christmas to talk about, you know, because this

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<v Speaker 1>it unearths so much about equality and inclusion, and I

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<v Speaker 1>just thought you must have gone, oh, this is a

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<v Speaker 1>really safe or interesting space to get people to understand

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<v Speaker 1>some of those themes a little bit better. But that

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<v Speaker 1>isn't the way that you came into it.

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<v Speaker 2>I actual actually made a very controversial and complicated documentary

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<v Speaker 2>about abortion rights before Santa Camp. That documentary was called

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<v Speaker 2>Aka Jane Rowe and it was about the woman behind

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<v Speaker 2>Roe v. Wade and reproductive rights, a heavy subject matter,

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<v Speaker 2>and I had thought after that, let's do something really

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<v Speaker 2>fun and accessible and bright, And that's what I thought

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Camp was going to be. I didn't think it

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<v Speaker 2>was going to be this big, thoughtful, like, I really

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<v Speaker 2>didn't think that this film was going to be about

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<v Speaker 2>the most important issue in the world, you know, representation

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<v Speaker 2>and diversity. Like I thought this would be fun because

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<v Speaker 2>I had just made a very political documentary for the

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<v Speaker 2>last one, and you know, I was a little exhausted

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<v Speaker 2>by that. I thought Santa Camp was going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a little more fun, and it is.

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<v Speaker 3>It is still has you haven't let that go.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's the beauty in the intelligence behind

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<v Speaker 1>this is that it is.

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<v Speaker 3>Enjoyable to watch.

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<v Speaker 1>Even the emotion when you do find yourself tearing up

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<v Speaker 1>with what's happening, It's still an emotive and enjoyable film

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<v Speaker 1>to watch. There's nothing uncomfortable to me. I did learn

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<v Speaker 1>a lot, and I've wanted to ask you do you

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<v Speaker 1>think that, you know, educating people is getting harder and

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<v Speaker 1>harder now that the term woke kind of has a

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<v Speaker 1>bad connotation to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I think, and you know a little bit on

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<v Speaker 2>your previous question about you know, what were the intentions, Like, obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>these issues around representation and equality are very intriguing to me,

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<v Speaker 2>and so when I found out that the censor of

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<v Speaker 2>society were thinking about these things and kind of figuring

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<v Speaker 2>out how to adapt CENTA to you know, the year

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two, I was definitely intrigued by that. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not something that we shied away from. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>your question about like, is it hard to cover these

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<v Speaker 2>things when there is a kind of stigma or backlash

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<v Speaker 2>around the idea of wokeness. Yeah, I think audiences don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to feel lectured or preached to or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>judged by the things that they're watching. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>think we're very lucky in this film because the characters

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<v Speaker 2>are so fun and interesting and wild and they're liars,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. The characters that we follow go on these rollercoasters,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like the Santa with the disability that we

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<v Speaker 2>follow early in the film, he says he wants to

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<v Speaker 2>be in a parade and that's his dream, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we see the twists in terms of his story as

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<v Speaker 2>he tries to make his dreams come true. And so,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't think this film feels like it's

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<v Speaker 2>educating people. I think it just feels like a very entertaining,

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<v Speaker 2>immersive trip through the wild lives of some unconventional clauses.

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<v Speaker 3>It would bother me if the word work here.

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<v Speaker 1>I am bringing it up again and again, But it

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<v Speaker 1>would bother me if people were thinking that this movie

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<v Speaker 1>is like a woke film, because it's not.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's not what that is.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why I was interested to know about your

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<v Speaker 1>relationship with that term.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I am Pakistani Australian and I'm gay. I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like I, you know, have seen firsthand through my life

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<v Speaker 2>experiences how important representation is. But I also really do

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<v Speaker 2>see this backlash to the idea of anything that feels

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<v Speaker 2>educational or preachy, like audiences really get turned off by that.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we've seen that with a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>recent things, like you know, the movie Bros. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>where I think, you know, audiences really show up for

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<v Speaker 2>that film. And so it is certainly something that you

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<v Speaker 2>think about when you're making a movie like Santa Can.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something that the producer Stacey, and the editor Lese

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<v Speaker 2>and myself really thought about, you know, like how do

0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.520
<v Speaker 2>we make this about the characters that we're following rather

0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 2>than any sort of like social issues feel which I

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.560
<v Speaker 2>think can turn people off.

0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I've been walking around talking about Santa Levi and Santa

0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Chris and Fin set A Finn. Yes, I loved all

0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 1>of them. I just thought they were such gorgeous characters.

0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.400
<v Speaker 1>But I thought that, you know, the transcend element was

0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 1>interestingly placed up against the person of color Santa and

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.720
<v Speaker 1>the special needs Santa, because you are sort of cross

0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.719
<v Speaker 1>polat across a few different broader topics, but each one

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of them kind of helped unearth a little bit more

0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.840
<v Speaker 1>understanding out of the audience with the other story stacked

0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:10.400
<v Speaker 1>up against it.

0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, each of the Santor's experiences are so different.

0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.079
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this film takes place across three completely different

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 2>parts of America. We've got Chris, who's a black Santa

0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 2>and he's in the South, and then we've got Levi,

0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.360
<v Speaker 2>who's a transgender center he's in Chicago and the Midwest.

0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.480
<v Speaker 2>And then we've got a cluster of Santors in the

0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.360
<v Speaker 2>New England area. And so, you know, each of their

0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.760
<v Speaker 2>experiences are very different. And the way that for example,

0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Chris the Center who's black, experiences racism and relation to

0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.240
<v Speaker 2>being a you know, a black Santa is very different

0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.800
<v Speaker 2>to what we see with Levi the transgender center, who

0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.520
<v Speaker 2>when he puts on a event in Chicago where LGBTQ

0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 2>kids get to meet him, the Proud Boys show up,

0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:00.560
<v Speaker 2>and you know, for anybody who doesn't know it doesn't

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of follow that part of US politics. The Proud

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Boys are a white nationalist group who were involved in

0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:09.840
<v Speaker 2>the January sixth insurrection, and you know, they are known

0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 2>for brawling. You know, it's it's easy to find videos

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>of them online in these huge street fights, you know,

0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.760
<v Speaker 2>punching people, and you know, many of them may be armed.

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.840
<v Speaker 2>And and so I think that the way that each of

0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.320
<v Speaker 2>the Santas experience is pushback to the idea of censors

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 2>who break the mold. There are similarities there, but there

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.240
<v Speaker 2>are big differences as well. I think intolerance is intolerance

0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 2>however you see it. But it is very interesting in

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.679
<v Speaker 2>the way that each of the different centers experiences experiences that.

0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And then Finn, who is a center with a disability,

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the way that he encounters intolerance is by people not

0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.640
<v Speaker 2>believing that he can be, not believing that he's going

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.320
<v Speaker 2>to be a you know, a good sanser for kids.

0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>And what they encounter is, you know, when they try

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>to get gigs for Santa Finn, the center with the disability,

0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>which is spina bifita, they just people just don't call

0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>them back, you know, they try to get these gigs

0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 2>and people just kind of you know, find an excuse

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 2>or say they'll call them back and never do. So,

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, the way that people experience discrimination is it's

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 2>very different, but always very interesting and heartbreaking to see.

0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I love though, that kids don't know the difference, and

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.280
<v Speaker 1>that there's something very beautiful in that. You know, there's

0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.640
<v Speaker 1>always these parents up in arms, Oh God, what are

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the kids going to think about this transcender or what

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.920
<v Speaker 1>are they going to think about Santa with the disability,

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 1>all of these sorts of things. But children don't pick

0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.239
<v Speaker 1>up on that. And so there's a lot of ideals

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:38.640
<v Speaker 1>that we have within ourselves that create this fear that

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.400
<v Speaker 1>are completely unnecessary.

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 2>So much of what the people that oppose the quote

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.960
<v Speaker 2>unquote unconventional senses that we follow are doing. So much

0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.080
<v Speaker 2>of that opposition is this idea of we need to

0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.280
<v Speaker 2>protect the kids. The kids are going to be confused

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 2>or the kids are going to be indoctrinated. And I

0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.200
<v Speaker 2>think that what you see in the film is that

0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 2>the kids really don't care. They want a Santa who

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 2>shows them love and brings them joy and listens to

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 2>them and understands them. And I think in that sense,

0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.440
<v Speaker 2>this film kind of illustrates that, you know, being Santa

0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 2>is from the heart. It's not about skin color or

0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, orientation or things like that. And I will

0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.760
<v Speaker 2>say one of the things that I do remember after

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 2>we started filming, had this kind of flashback to when

0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:32.480
<v Speaker 2>I was young and all I wanted for Christmas was

0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>this special edition barbie that came with Asari because my

0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.880
<v Speaker 2>mother's from Pakistan, and even at the age of like

0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 2>seven or eight, I was too afraid to ask Santa

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 2>for that, Like I did kind of sense that it

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 2>was not the right thing to be asking Santa for

0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 2>as like a young ay kid. So I think that

0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>there is something to be said for Santas who are

0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.040
<v Speaker 2>like us. I think we do have an idea of

0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 2>who we are at a very young age, and so

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.760
<v Speaker 2>having Santas that have that kind of natural empathy can

0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 2>hopefully be a good thing for young kids.

0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Do you think in some ways that we've become too

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.960
<v Speaker 1>fascinated with putting things in boxes and creating rules unnecessarily,

0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think the origins of fear have something

0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 1>to do with our ideology that things need to be

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.400
<v Speaker 1>perfect or they need to be the way that we've

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 1>always seen them.

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>It's such a good question, and I think that Christmas

0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 2>is this holiday that people really think has to be

0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.360
<v Speaker 2>perfect and the same, and they have to see the

0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>perfect santswer to get the perfect photo and then have

0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:35.800
<v Speaker 2>like the perfect gifts and the perfect Christmas lunch or dinner,

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 2>and so there's all this pressure that people have around,

0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, what their Christmas should be and what the

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 2>santor should look like. And I think, maybe you know,

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:46.840
<v Speaker 2>that is part of the reason why people are so

0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I guess, you know, opposed to anything that breaks the mold.

0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 2>Like they have these very cookie cut of notions of

0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.000
<v Speaker 2>whose ants should be and what Christmas should be, and

0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.640
<v Speaker 2>they are very threatened by anything that goes against that,

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>whether that's a transgender center or a black center. And

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:04.760
<v Speaker 2>I hope that people can relax a little bit. I mean,

0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 2>we see the Santra Society and the film. They're the

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.439
<v Speaker 2>real deal, s answers like they fit the mold of

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.119
<v Speaker 2>what people expect Santa to be, and a lot of

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.320
<v Speaker 2>them are old guys, and they manage to get their

0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.800
<v Speaker 2>heads around this idea that Santa can be anybody, and

0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 2>so the rest of us should be able to as well.

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I was giggling to myself, but that's because

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.120
<v Speaker 1>I find Christmas to be so funny, because people get

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.600
<v Speaker 1>so stressed out with trying to make the perfect Christmas

0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.000
<v Speaker 1>lunch that goes wrong every year, you know what I mean,

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 1>There's just so much room for error with Christmas and

0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 1>the expectation of holiday as well. You know, it's like,

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, it gets to the end of the year

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>and I've got to go on holidays, and it has

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:48.960
<v Speaker 1>to be the best holiday that I can go on,

0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.199
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. And as soon as you

0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.280
<v Speaker 1>start doing that to yourself, it's just leaves so much

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:54.919
<v Speaker 1>room for comedy in my mind.

0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's so interesting that you say that, because what

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.160
<v Speaker 2>we open the film with is the these slow motion

0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>montage of babies having tantrums on Santa's lap and they're inspired, yeah,

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:10.880
<v Speaker 2>thank you, And they're inspired by these amazing Jill Greenberg

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 2>photos from the nineties. She was a photographer that you know,

0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 2>she took these photos of toddlers and kids in these

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of tantrum states and they're quite amazing photos. And

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.359
<v Speaker 2>when we were thinking of how we would, you know,

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 2>open the film, we were like, oh, what if we

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>did something that you know, what if we just sat

0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.080
<v Speaker 2>there with a Santa for a whole day and just

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 2>filmed everything that happened and just kind of play some

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.520
<v Speaker 2>of that in slow motion, And of course a lot

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:36.920
<v Speaker 2>of the kids when they put on Santa's lap, they

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:41.360
<v Speaker 2>just lose it. They start screaming and throwing their shoes

0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:46.000
<v Speaker 2>and crying and you know, like just howling and reaching

0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:50.879
<v Speaker 2>for their parents, and which I obviously think is hilarious because,

0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:54.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, not just because it just looks so funny

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.280
<v Speaker 2>with you know, these kids dressed up in their best

0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.240
<v Speaker 2>outfits for their yearly photo, but also because the comedy

0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:04.440
<v Speaker 2>of failure in the sense that the families have such

0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 2>high expectations for these photos. Like they've waited all year

0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:11.159
<v Speaker 2>and they've got all dressed up and gone to this

0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>place to have a photo with Santa, and they want

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.080
<v Speaker 2>it to be perfect. And they wait in the queue

0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 2>and they finally get to the front and as soon

0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.560
<v Speaker 2>as they sit on Santa's lap, their baby just starts

0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.160
<v Speaker 2>screaming and have tears down their faces. So there's something

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 2>very comedic about that.

0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, it is because Nick, the reason why it's

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.280
<v Speaker 1>so funny is because the type of people that take

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 1>their kids to sit on a Sander's lap and the

0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 1>type of people who want to put up a photo

0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.280
<v Speaker 1>of the perfect family. I mean, maybe that's my relationship

0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.439
<v Speaker 1>with it, but there's just so much pressure for their

0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.400
<v Speaker 1>kid to behave like a seal, you know what I mean,

0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and to portray the perfect image of family. And I

0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:47.800
<v Speaker 1>just think, no, wonder, these kids are freaking out. They're

0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 1>not trained animals. They're not going to sit there and

0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.200
<v Speaker 1>in a moment capture the idea of what you want

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.280
<v Speaker 1>other people to think of your family. I mean, I

0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 1>might be reading into this a little bit much, but

0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 1>that's what I think.

0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>No, of course, I mean, if you put that much

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 2>wh pressure, if you build up to that one moment

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 2>where you know you have a few seconds to get

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.200
<v Speaker 2>to get a perfect photo with Santa, of course everything

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 2>is going.

0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.359
<v Speaker 1>To go wrong. I wanted to ask you a question

0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.280
<v Speaker 1>about something that's happening in the state to the moment,

0:20:13.359 --> 0:20:16.320
<v Speaker 1>and I just thought this movie made me think about

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.640
<v Speaker 1>broader things, and with what was happening with the shooting

0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:23.120
<v Speaker 1>in America this week, I was wondering, do you think

0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 1>that confusion and fear is responsible for some of those

0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.400
<v Speaker 1>recent crimes against the LGBTI community.

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that in recent years there's been a huge

0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 2>amount of hatred and you know, divisive sentiment directed towards

0:20:38.080 --> 0:20:42.520
<v Speaker 2>the LGBTQ community. I've seen it as a gay man myself,

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.800
<v Speaker 2>just in the way that you know, in certain parts

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:49.359
<v Speaker 2>of America you do feel afraid walking around and being,

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, to use an elegant phrase, you know, to

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:57.320
<v Speaker 2>be visibly overtly gay, which I think that I am,

0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and I have certainly felt that more in recent years.

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 2>I didn't feel that when I first moved here ten

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.840
<v Speaker 2>years ago, and I think that it was truly shocking

0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 2>to me in the context of the film. You know,

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.240
<v Speaker 2>when we started following Levi, who was a transgender Santa,

0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.399
<v Speaker 2>we just did not expect that there was going to

0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.160
<v Speaker 2>be the type of opposition to him that we see

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:18.600
<v Speaker 2>in the film. We never thought that there would be

0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.399
<v Speaker 2>protesters or white nationalists showing up to his event, an

0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 2>event that was purely designed to give young queer kids joy,

0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 2>and young queer kids and kids whose parents are that

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>was who the event was directed at. So certainly it

0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 2>has felt more palpable in recent years, and I think

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:43.119
<v Speaker 2>even even with that, I was still very shocked at

0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:46.320
<v Speaker 2>what happened in the film. I was very shocked to be,

0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:48.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, standing face to face with the brown boys

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and what you see in the film when they show

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.960
<v Speaker 2>up The first thing that we heard was them yelling

0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:57.879
<v Speaker 2>keep Christ in Christmas, and then they started talking and

0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.560
<v Speaker 2>talking about all of the you know, opposite that they

0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 2>had to this idea that Santa would be portrayed by

0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:05.919
<v Speaker 2>a trans person. They were very upset about that. And

0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:08.520
<v Speaker 2>then at one point one of them starts saying, you know,

0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 2>and the Bible that I read says that this is

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.920
<v Speaker 2>a sin. And all I could think was that Santa's

0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:16.720
<v Speaker 2>not in the Bible.

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:18.280
<v Speaker 3>I loved that in the movie.

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's at I kind of yeah, I mean,

0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.920
<v Speaker 2>I kind of blurted it out. And they weren't pleased

0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.520
<v Speaker 2>with that, but yeah, I mean, Santa's not in the Bible.

0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 2>And it's very shocking that anyone would care.

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:34.880
<v Speaker 1>There's something so embarrassing and disgusting when you see violence

0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:38.199
<v Speaker 1>and abuse because someone feels threatened by seeing another person

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:41.520
<v Speaker 1>getting joy from being who they are, or getting joy

0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 1>from something that is actually non threatening at all to

0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>anyone else.

0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.840
<v Speaker 2>It was very strange and very surreal, I've got to

0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 2>say it was. It was a very weird moment, and

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 2>they were all, you know that these protesters were also

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.320
<v Speaker 2>talking about how a transgender Santa is. It's proof that

0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.040
<v Speaker 2>communism and Marxism is taking over the country, and I

0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>just remember thinking, like, how these two things in any

0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.800
<v Speaker 2>way related just made no sense, but it was very strange,

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:06.480
<v Speaker 2>and I just, you know, at one point they proudly

0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 2>started singing a Christmas carol, which isn't included in the film,

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:14.480
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it's very, very strange. And it's one of

0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:16.879
<v Speaker 2>those moments of which there were many in the making

0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.360
<v Speaker 2>of this film where I just thought, you know, if

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 2>we weren't here with a camera and nobody would believe

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:23.320
<v Speaker 2>that any of this happened, because it just sounds so

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:24.679
<v Speaker 2>far fetched and strange.

0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of the magic of the documentary, though, Is

0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:28.600
<v Speaker 1>there a way in which we can try and change

0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.240
<v Speaker 1>the world, you know, without having so much hate and

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 1>fear being pushed up against us.

0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:38.720
<v Speaker 2>I think so much of so much of people's insecurities

0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 2>or resistance to the idea of there being other people

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.000
<v Speaker 2>who are not like them comes from their lack of

0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>familiarity with it. And I hope that with Santa camp

0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.679
<v Speaker 2>By seeing these wonderful characters that we follow, you know,

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.560
<v Speaker 2>and their challenges and their victories and their you know,

0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 2>light moments and dark moments, I hope that by seeing

0:23:55.880 --> 0:24:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that that it humanizes them for the audience and they

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:04.920
<v Speaker 2>get a sense of what people who are not like them,

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:07.919
<v Speaker 2>what those people's lives are like, because I think that

0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.879
<v Speaker 2>a lot of misunderstanding or prejudice just comes from the

0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.720
<v Speaker 2>fact that people aren't really exposed to people that aren't

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:15.679
<v Speaker 2>like them. I hope that's where it comes from.

0:24:16.359 --> 0:24:17.879
<v Speaker 1>I think it's fear, like I see it in my

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.600
<v Speaker 1>own life, and I think I hated about myself. But

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>in places that I have fear myself, like I'm worried,

0:24:24.320 --> 0:24:26.800
<v Speaker 1>is usually the places where I do the worst things,

0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 1>do you know what I mean? So, I think when

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.119
<v Speaker 1>we are fearful, we behave badly. And I think that

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:34.520
<v Speaker 1>those things are quite tightly married together.

0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:36.040
<v Speaker 3>And so yeah, when you.

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:39.959
<v Speaker 1>Have people who are just so scared of change that

0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 1>fear is a breeding ground for them to behave badly.

0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that. I mean. The reaction to the

0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:51.600
<v Speaker 2>diverse sensors that we see in the film is so extreme.

0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:56.119
<v Speaker 2>You know, Chris, a Black Santa, simply puts an inflatable

0:24:56.359 --> 0:24:58.640
<v Speaker 2>black Santa clause on his lawn and gets a racist

0:24:58.720 --> 0:25:01.640
<v Speaker 2>letter about it. Who would who would bother to take

0:25:01.680 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the time to sit down, type out a letter, a

0:25:04.359 --> 0:25:07.679
<v Speaker 2>racist letter, send it to somebody, you know, over a

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 2>lawn decoration. And the same goes for Levi the transgender Santa.

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:15.280
<v Speaker 2>Like the idea that somebody would feel so passionately that

0:25:15.280 --> 0:25:18.040
<v Speaker 2>that a trans person can't portray Santa clause that they

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:21.920
<v Speaker 2>would like drive across town, make save Santa posters, which

0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 2>we see them carrying in the film, and protest about it.

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Is like, it's it's very it's it's just a lot

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:32.200
<v Speaker 2>of effort to put in to making somebody feel othered,

0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and it's very surprising to see.

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.120
<v Speaker 1>I thought the phone call was the thing that really

0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:38.880
<v Speaker 1>I was like listening to this woman with such conviction

0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.919
<v Speaker 1>and and such you know, anger and hate, you know,

0:25:43.320 --> 0:25:46.120
<v Speaker 1>being bothered to ring someone and leave such a such

0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 1>a long voicemail.

0:25:47.720 --> 0:25:49.960
<v Speaker 3>Like I was like, what is wrong with this person?

0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:52.399
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like worried for her, you know what's happening

0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 1>in her life that she feels that that's where she's

0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:58.199
<v Speaker 1>going to take that energy and that's where she's going

0:25:58.240 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>to put it.

0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the phone call that you're talking about is so

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 2>shocking and so strange. It's this very long message that

0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.760
<v Speaker 2>somebody leaves on the organizer of the Meat Transgender Santa

0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:13.800
<v Speaker 2>events voicemail, and it just goes on and on and

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:18.240
<v Speaker 2>on and talks about communism and pedophilia and grooming, like

0:26:18.320 --> 0:26:20.840
<v Speaker 2>all of these kind of go to concepts that are

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 2>used to demonize other people. And I remember, you know,

0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:27.639
<v Speaker 2>sitting there and listening to it and just being completely perplexed.

0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:31.240
<v Speaker 2>But also there was a part of me that wondered,

0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 2>is that is the person leaving business is just very bored.

0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Do they just not have a lot else to do?

0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I mean what happened was when that

0:26:40.119 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>when the Meat Transgender Center event was first announced in Chicago,

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the event posting went viral amongst people that were opposed

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 2>to transgender people, and you know, the comments, some of

0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 2>which we see in the film are just really shocking.

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:58.680
<v Speaker 2>They're very hateful. And then that group of people then

0:26:58.760 --> 0:27:01.960
<v Speaker 2>mobilized and you know, decided to turn up and protest.

0:27:02.280 --> 0:27:05.320
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's confronting. It's very confronting. It's not what

0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:07.399
<v Speaker 2>you expect in a Christmas movie. And you know, a

0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:09.959
<v Speaker 2>lot of the movie is very fun and funny and

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:12.560
<v Speaker 2>light hearted and slapstick, and you know, some of the

0:27:12.640 --> 0:27:15.200
<v Speaker 2>stances talk about, you know, when kids poo on them

0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:17.760
<v Speaker 2>when they're sitting on Santa's lap. Like, there's a real

0:27:17.920 --> 0:27:21.160
<v Speaker 2>mix of different emotions from the very serious.

0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I focused on the serious because there's been

0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.720
<v Speaker 1>some stuff that I'm like, I mean, Nick, I could

0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:28.679
<v Speaker 1>talk to you about this movie for a very long time,

0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 1>and I'm sure that at this point you probably feel

0:27:32.040 --> 0:27:35.440
<v Speaker 1>like I almost have. But I think there's so many

0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>things to talk about. I mean, I could see your

0:27:37.280 --> 0:27:40.120
<v Speaker 1>love of Christmas and the love of tradition and your

0:27:40.200 --> 0:27:43.200
<v Speaker 1>fascination with that throughout the whole film, even at its

0:27:43.200 --> 0:27:45.840
<v Speaker 1>bleakest points, and I wanted to ask you. You know,

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>these days, it's quite common to have parents tell their

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 1>kids that Santa doesn't exist because they believe it's important

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>to never misinform their children. You know, what do you

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:58.040
<v Speaker 1>think of that common practice now with parents being like

0:27:58.200 --> 0:28:00.520
<v Speaker 1>not even allowing their kids to ever believe in Christmas

0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:02.359
<v Speaker 1>because they're worried that, you know, the kids are going

0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.359
<v Speaker 1>to come back to them years later and say, you

0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 1>lied to me.

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:09.639
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting and it's funny. When we started filming,

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the Santa Society were actually concerned about the opposite. When

0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:15.919
<v Speaker 2>we first said to them we would like to film

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:18.159
<v Speaker 2>at this camp, they were like, yeah, but if you

0:28:18.280 --> 0:28:20.560
<v Speaker 2>film with us, then kids are going to watch this

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:22.639
<v Speaker 2>and see that Santa's not real because there's like a

0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:24.520
<v Speaker 2>hundred of us sitting in a class learning how to

0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:26.359
<v Speaker 2>be Santa. And when they said that to me, I

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.880
<v Speaker 2>was like, Oh, I didn't even think of that, And

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I just didn't really know what to say because I

0:28:32.080 --> 0:28:33.080
<v Speaker 2>was kind of like, it's.

0:28:32.880 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 3>Not a show for children.

0:28:33.920 --> 0:28:35.760
<v Speaker 1>It's what you say to people, like when people say

0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:39.440
<v Speaker 1>to you about, you know, R rated films, law adult

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:41.840
<v Speaker 1>films late at night, and you're like, what are my children.

0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Going to think?

0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, your children shouldn't be up late at night watching

0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 1>R rated movies, Like you know, this is a film

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:48.480
<v Speaker 1>not for children.

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think it's for kids that are

0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:52.720
<v Speaker 2>kind of like ate and up, which is I think

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 2>I understand is the agent which they stopped believing in Santa.

0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>In terms of parents not even telling their kids that

0:28:58.800 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Santra exists, I do get that. And one thing that

0:29:02.440 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I have heard that is similar to that is that

0:29:04.440 --> 0:29:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I have heard actually a lot of black families saying

0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 2>that they don't teach their kids that Santa is real,

0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:14.000
<v Speaker 2>because traditionally there's been so little representation if their family

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:18.720
<v Speaker 2>is in the idea of Santa. There's an actress, Gabrielle Union,

0:29:18.800 --> 0:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>who I saw a quote from recently, and she was

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:25.920
<v Speaker 2>saying that like, she never taught her kids about Santa

0:29:25.920 --> 0:29:28.200
<v Speaker 2>because she didn't want her kids to think that some

0:29:28.360 --> 0:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>white guy had broken into their house. And you know,

0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:36.080
<v Speaker 2>I can see why a lot of diverse families wouldn't

0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:41.320
<v Speaker 2>be that interested in kind of perpetuating this notion of

0:29:41.400 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Santa when there is so little diversity around him. And

0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I should say, for the record, we see in the

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:51.200
<v Speaker 2>film the Santas themselves talk about the fact that Santa Claus,

0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 2>actually Sint Nicholas, is from Turkey. One of the Santas says,

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:59.000
<v Speaker 2>Santa's from Turkey originally, and he probably would have been

0:29:59.040 --> 0:30:04.240
<v Speaker 2>olive white. So you know, Santa's always changed.

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:08.520
<v Speaker 1>And it's fine, Yeah, it's okay, yeah, and we all

0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:13.320
<v Speaker 1>evolved exactly. I'm so sad that I'm almost running out

0:30:13.320 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 1>of time because I have so many other things that

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm miss wanting to talk to you about. But everyone

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>who joins the podcast gets asked this question, which is

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 1>what's something from behind the scene, something that we won't see,

0:30:23.640 --> 0:30:25.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a behind the scene secret.

0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So when we got to when we found out

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:35.800
<v Speaker 2>how huge the campsite was where Santa Camp takes place.

0:30:36.200 --> 0:30:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Once we saw it on a map, we were like, oh,

0:30:38.400 --> 0:30:40.680
<v Speaker 2>we're going to need golf carts to get around this place.

0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 2>And the Santas themselves bring in some of their own

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:46.640
<v Speaker 2>golf carts, but we hired our own golf carts for

0:30:46.640 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 2>the production crew. Because the things that were happening were

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.560
<v Speaker 2>spread out over this huge area. We were always rushing

0:30:53.560 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>around like we didn't want to miss anything, and we

0:30:55.640 --> 0:30:58.040
<v Speaker 2>had three different crews that were each kind of like

0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:01.400
<v Speaker 2>assigned to different things, and we were communicating in walkie

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:04.440
<v Speaker 2>talkies and we'd be like, you know, quickly get to blah,

0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 2>or like, something's happening by the lake, and we would

0:31:06.560 --> 0:31:09.040
<v Speaker 2>drive down there. And at one point the producer and

0:31:09.080 --> 0:31:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I were driving in such a rush that the golf

0:31:13.400 --> 0:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>cart I almost drove us over the edge of a

0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 2>cliff because I got the accelerator and the break confused

0:31:20.000 --> 0:31:25.720
<v Speaker 2>and actually drove like up onto the steps of one

0:31:25.760 --> 0:31:31.760
<v Speaker 2>of the cabins, and the golf cart only stopped moving

0:31:31.800 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 2>forwards because it like got stuck on the steps and

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:38.320
<v Speaker 2>it was like kind of like teetering like that while

0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the wheels were still spinning. And if it had not

0:31:41.760 --> 0:31:44.120
<v Speaker 2>been teetering, then it would have gone forwards and gone

0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:46.840
<v Speaker 2>over the edge of this ravine. And I mean, I

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:47.840
<v Speaker 2>think we would have died.

0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 3>So that was I shouldn't be laughing.

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:51.200
<v Speaker 1>You're like, I know we're going to say that I

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.480
<v Speaker 1>think we were going to die, And I'm like, well.

0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>We were about to go over the edge of a

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:58.160
<v Speaker 2>ravine in a golf cart at Santa Camp And I

0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:00.840
<v Speaker 2>just imagine like what the obituary would have said. It

0:32:00.840 --> 0:32:02.680
<v Speaker 2>would have just been so ridiculous, Like it would have

0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:05.120
<v Speaker 2>been one of those obituaries that people share and laugh about.

0:32:05.240 --> 0:32:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Like it's not how we want the documentary to end, Nick,

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.560
<v Speaker 1>with the end of the movie being that the documentary

0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 1>filmmaker is no longer with us. This is dedicated to

0:32:13.960 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>God Black. We've got a Santa's floating.

0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:18.160
<v Speaker 3>In the river. We need the footage, we need them

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:19.000
<v Speaker 3>down there, you know.

0:32:19.120 --> 0:32:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. They could have been a very different film.

0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:22.120
<v Speaker 3>Nick.

0:32:22.160 --> 0:32:24.040
<v Speaker 1>I just want to say how much I enjoyed talking

0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 1>to you today. And talking to you about your film.

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 1>I hope people check it out. It is out on

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 1>FOXTELD today. It's a brilliant HBO documentary series. And for

0:32:32.440 --> 0:32:34.760
<v Speaker 1>anyone that wants to join the conversation, please hit me

0:32:34.840 --> 0:32:37.040
<v Speaker 1>up because I think I'm going to be talking about

0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Santa Camp for a very long time.

0:32:39.720 --> 0:32:42.360
<v Speaker 3>Nick. Thanks, thanks so much, and all the best.

0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much. I hope that everybody you know

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 2>gets some Christmas joy and some emotion out of it

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:53.320
<v Speaker 2>as well. And it's been a pleasure talking to you.