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Speaker 1: Like I've been saying, Well, Parliament is going to sit

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Speaker 1: this week and next and there is a lot to cover,

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Speaker 1: with the government's controversial anti discrimination Amendment Bill expected to

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Speaker 1: face scrutiny from the opposition and the crossbench, with the

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Speaker 1: Country Liberal Party and Independence already expressing concerns to the amendments. Now,

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Speaker 1: the exclusion of section thirty seven A by the Government

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Speaker 1: is the first of any Australian will discrimination law and

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Speaker 1: it aims to remove the right for faith based schools

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Speaker 1: to discriminate on the basis of sexuality. Now, joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line to talk more about this and plenty

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Speaker 1: of other things is the Opposition leader Lea Fanocchi a O.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Leah, Good.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie and to your wonderful listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, there has been calls for the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: government to hold off on the change. The Bishop joined

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Speaker 1: us on the show and really spoke about the fact

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't such a concern in terms of the

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Speaker 1: clause that allows well a person to be discriminated against

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Speaker 1: based on their sexuality, but rather the changes around religion. Leah,

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Speaker 1: should the government hold off on these changes or is

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Speaker 1: this legislation required.

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Speaker 2: No, the government should absolutely stop. They need to go

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Speaker 2: back to the drawing board on this one. They've done

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Speaker 2: a fake consultation process where in July they put out

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Speaker 2: an exposure draft, they gave people just three weeks to respond,

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Speaker 2: but then, of course a month ago in Parliament dropped

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Speaker 2: the final version of the bill and it was vastly

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Speaker 2: different to the exposure drafts that they had put out

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Speaker 2: for consultation in July. There has been enormous waves of

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Speaker 2: opposition to this. There's a petition with thousands of signatures

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Speaker 2: on it. We had a rally out the front of

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Speaker 2: Parliament House last night which the Opposition stood in solidarity

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Speaker 2: with those people. It's hugely concerning for a number of reasons,

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Speaker 2: not just the impact on freedom of religion and of

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Speaker 2: course the opportunity for faith based schools to ensure that

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Speaker 2: they have strong faith and leaders of faith in their

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Speaker 2: school community, but also around freedom of speech. You know,

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Speaker 2: this new proposal to have offensive as a criteria in

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Speaker 2: the legislation, could you know mean a lot of people

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Speaker 2: fall found you know, no more jokes at the pub.

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Speaker 2: I mean if someone overhears you saying something that they

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Speaker 2: take offense to, all of a sudden, You're in all

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Speaker 2: sorts of problems. I just think this is a massive

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Speaker 2: overreach and the government's got to be open with people

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Speaker 2: about the implications and go back to the drawing board.

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Speaker 1: Lea. We put a lot of questions to the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister about this yesterday because it is something that I

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Speaker 1: have been inundated with messages, phone calls, you know, private

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Speaker 1: messages about people are really pretty concerned about some of

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Speaker 1: these changes. If they're not religious, you know, they are

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Speaker 1: still quite concerned about the bill, including this provision like

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Speaker 1: you've just touched on, to make it illegal to do

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Speaker 1: something reasonably likely in all circumstances to offend, insult, humiliate,

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Speaker 1: or intimidate another person or group of people because of

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Speaker 1: a personal attribute. Are you satisfied with the Chief Minister's

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Speaker 1: explanation yesterday that this is not going to see people

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Speaker 1: hauled before the Anti Discrimination Commissioner for comments that they

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Speaker 1: make it a pub or at a barbecue.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not. And the Attorney General and Natasha Files have

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Speaker 2: been treating territorianes like fools on these and it's actually disgusting.

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Speaker 2: It shows a level of contempt they have, you know,

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Speaker 2: yesterday on your show, Katie the Chief Minister has said

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Speaker 2: that there was a criteria around it, that the words

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Speaker 2: had to be profound and serious. Well, we went back

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Speaker 2: and had another look in the bill, Katie, and I

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Speaker 2: can tell you the words profound and serious do not

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Speaker 2: appear in the bill. We had Chancey Paik come out

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Speaker 2: and say that there had to be hateful language, bigoted language.

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Speaker 2: Again you go back to the bill, those two words

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Speaker 2: are absolutely nowhere to be seen in the bill. Even

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Speaker 2: the fact that the Attorney General said it would have

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Speaker 2: to be extremely offensive or grotesque, those words don't in

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Speaker 2: the bill. So the government is trying to say to

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Speaker 2: people that it's this very high threshold and don't worry,

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Speaker 2: they've thought of all the unintended consequences, when absolutely in

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Speaker 2: the legislation as it stands, it is vague, it is open,

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Speaker 2: it is broad brush, and it is going to capture

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Speaker 2: a lot of interactions in our community that people unknowingly have.

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Speaker 2: It's going to capture, you know, people who are going

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Speaker 2: to a church service and listening to the Bible. It's

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Speaker 2: going to capture people having jokes in the pub The

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Speaker 2: media are almost certainly going to fall foul of these provisions. Politicians,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know, Katie, there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: people who are offended by my position on news crime,

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Speaker 2: for example, when other people who love it. And that's

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Speaker 2: the world we live in. Everyone's got a right to

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Speaker 2: express themselves. Everyone's got a right to an opinion within reason,

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Speaker 2: and to include offense and insult. Just really is an

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Speaker 2: attack on freedom of speech. And this attack on our

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Speaker 2: faith based schools. You know there's ten thousand territory kids

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Speaker 2: go to faith based schools. It's just it's unjustifiable, Leah.

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Speaker 1: I know that Kesiopiric, the Independent Member for Goider, is

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Speaker 1: proposing a change now she is hoping to push through.

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Speaker 1: I think today that the Minister must conduct a review

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Speaker 1: of the first two years of operation of the amendments

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Speaker 1: made to this Act by the Anti Discrimination Amendment Act

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty two and report. A report of the review

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Speaker 1: must be tabled in the Assembly within twelve months after

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Speaker 1: the end of the period of two years after the

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Speaker 1: commencement of the Anti Discrimination Amendment Act. Is this something

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Speaker 1: you would support or do you think something further needs

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Speaker 1: to happen.

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Speaker 2: Look, we will support that amendment, but of course we

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Speaker 2: hope the bill doesn't pass. We will be voting against

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Speaker 2: the bill. I know a number of the independents will

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Speaker 2: be voting against the bill, and it will really be

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Speaker 2: interesting to see how Labor members vote. You know, will

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Speaker 2: they all vote as a block because they've been told

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Speaker 2: to by Natasha Files or will they actually exercise what

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Speaker 2: their constituents are telling them. So we hope it doesn't pass,

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Speaker 2: but if it does, we certainly will be supporting the

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Speaker 2: Member for Goiter in calling on a review in two

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Speaker 2: years time. But this really needs to go back to

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Speaker 2: the drawing board. You know, the Bishop met the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minister in Chancy late yesterday afternoon and he was given

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Speaker 2: very vague commitments by them. It's not acceptable if something

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Speaker 2: isn't enshrined in law, then you can't rely on that protection.

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Speaker 2: If the government really wants to protect religious schools and

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Speaker 2: freedom of speech, it's got to be put into the bill.

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Speaker 2: Their promises or what they say on radio does not

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Speaker 2: mean anything in a court of law. And of course

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Speaker 2: they're just trying to push their way through this like

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Speaker 2: they do with everything else that they want to just

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Speaker 2: ram home.

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Speaker 1: Lea, do you think that you know that Catholic schools

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Speaker 1: or institutions of faith should be able to discriminate against

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Speaker 1: someone based on their sexuality.

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Speaker 2: So what we know is that religious organizations, religious schools,

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Speaker 2: and this could be the Islamic school, it could be

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Speaker 2: the Greek school, it could be a Catholic school, an

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Speaker 2: Anglican school, Lutheran school, you name it. They are able

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Speaker 2: to prioritize enrollment and also employment of staff based on

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Speaker 2: their faith. And now what the govern saying is they

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Speaker 2: don't want them to be able to do that, which then,

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Speaker 2: of course means religious schools are put in a very

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Speaker 2: difficult situation about how do they maintain their faith and

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Speaker 2: their teachings if they're not allowed to proactively seek out

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Speaker 2: teachers that share that same faith and values. And this

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Speaker 2: is something that the Australian Law Reform Commission is looking at.

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Speaker 2: Federal labor don't share the same view as territory labor.

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Speaker 2: They recognize that this is a really important provision. You know,

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Speaker 2: freedom of religion is enshrined in our constitution. It's a

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Speaker 2: right and the Australian Law Reform Commission are currently looking

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Speaker 2: at how do we continue those protections without discriminating against people.

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Speaker 2: And I can tell you Katie, no faith based school

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Speaker 2: wants to go out and hurt someone. You know, this

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Speaker 2: idea that they're deliberately targeting in people for particular reasons

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Speaker 2: is just not true. What faith based schools want is

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Speaker 2: to be able to uphold their values, their ethos, whatever

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Speaker 2: their faith might be, which are many and varied across

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Speaker 2: the territory. We have an amazing multicultural and multi faith community,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the government has not justified what is

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Speaker 2: broken and what this is fixing, and I think they

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Speaker 2: have a massive problem.

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Speaker 1: We have got so much lined up this morning, so

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Speaker 1: I'm going to keep pushing through, but I do want

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Speaker 1: to ask you when is this vote going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Is it today? Is it going to be later in

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Speaker 1: the week. What's the situation from what you know so far?

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Speaker 2: So my understanding is it will come on today and

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Speaker 2: I think it would probably go late into the night.

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Speaker 2: The government probably want to get this done and dusted

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Speaker 2: so that all the noise goes away, which is pretty disappointing.

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Speaker 2: But we will be really going through every single inch

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Speaker 2: of this legislation and putting the Attorney General through his

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Speaker 2: paces because territories have an expectation that legislation has done properly,

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Speaker 2: and this one is certainly failing that test.

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Speaker 1: Leah, let's move along because there is a lot of

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Speaker 1: other things on the agenda. We know that there's some

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Speaker 1: very serious legislative legislative changes around raising the age of

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Speaker 1: criminal responsibility and also mandatory sentencing. Are they on the

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Speaker 1: agenda to be passed these parliamentary sittings or bait it?

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Speaker 2: So unfortunately for the opposition, and many people might not

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Speaker 2: know this, but we literally have to wait until the

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Speaker 2: night before Parliament to find out what's going on the

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Speaker 2: next day. So I am absolutely convinced that mandatory the

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Speaker 2: removal of mandatory sentencing and the raising of the age

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Speaker 2: of criminal responsibility will appear either this week or next week, Katie.

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Speaker 2: But when it will come on is anybody's guess. At

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Speaker 2: this stage. Government don't give us any courtesy in that regard,

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Speaker 2: but we will be opposing raising the age of criminal

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Speaker 2: responsibility and we will be opposing the abolishing of mandatory sentencing.

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Speaker 2: This is way out of stepwood community expectation. It just

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Speaker 2: further disempowers our police, It creates, you know, less consequences,

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Speaker 2: not less crime, and it's ultimately not going to make

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Speaker 2: anyone safer, Leah.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday the Northern Territory government came out and said that

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Speaker 1: they are breaking the cycle of youth crime through early

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Speaker 1: prevention and diversion programs. So essentially they say that they're

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Speaker 1: set to raise them in a mage of criminal responsibility

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Speaker 1: from ten to twelve, with legislation to be debated during

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Speaker 1: these parliamentary sittings. Now, they said that we're making the

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Speaker 1: announcement that support programs they're going to be obviously instrumental

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Speaker 1: in stopping this cycle of crime. They said yesterday at

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Speaker 1: a press conference that from January to November this year,

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Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety one youth took part in youth

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Speaker 1: diversion programs, with evidence showing that sixty percent of youths

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Speaker 1: will not go on to re offend. Is this the

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Speaker 1: right step these programs.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, there's no doubt we need programs. We need

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Speaker 2: to be intervening in young people's lives before they turned

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Speaker 2: to a life of crime. But this government has been

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Speaker 2: supposedly meant to have done that for the last six years,

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Speaker 2: and even as early as a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 2: the Attorney General was saying that they wouldn't enact this

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Speaker 2: legislation immediately because the programs aren't there. So I'm amazed

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Speaker 2: and stunned Katie that in two or three weeks they

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Speaker 2: can come up with all these magical programs, but just

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Speaker 2: you know, it's just not there. Our police are in

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Speaker 2: absolute despair over this, Katie. They don't know what their

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Speaker 2: obligations are now with a ten and eleven year old

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Speaker 2: who's committing serious crimes. Of course, Territory families have not

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Speaker 2: been additionally resourced to pick up the slack. If the

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Speaker 2: government doesn't want a police officer to pick up an

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Speaker 2: eleven year old committing crimes, then they need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that there's someone else who is. Because our police

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Speaker 2: are too busy to be a taxi service for a

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Speaker 2: government that's hell bent on destroying people's lives and giving

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Speaker 2: criminals a free runner. So there's a lot of work

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Speaker 2: to be done here.

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Speaker 1: So well, at this point, do you think that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government has got the programs in place to

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Speaker 1: be able to raise the h We don't.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely don't. And even on the news last night,

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Speaker 2: one of the providers said they would need more resources

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Speaker 2: to deal with more kids. I mean, we found out

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Speaker 2: that only eleven young people had taken part in Victim

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Speaker 2: Offender Conferencing, which is one of the diversion programs that

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Speaker 2: this government teuts. I mean, eleven in a year is just.

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Speaker 1: And we did catch up with the with the Jesuit

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Speaker 1: Social Services last week on the show and spoke more

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Speaker 1: about that victim conferencing and by large it does sound

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Speaker 1: as though it's a good program, but it is voluntary

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Speaker 1: as in, you know, the those that are are referred

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Speaker 1: to the program have to obviously agree to take part

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Speaker 1: as well. They said that they could be doing more

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Speaker 1: than you know, the numbers that they've done so far,

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Speaker 1: but people have to be referred to their services.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, but they're not being referred because we've

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Speaker 2: got a weak government that doesn't force anyone to do anything.

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Speaker 2: If you're a criminal, I don't understand why you have

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Speaker 2: an option to choose whether or not you would take

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Speaker 2: part in diversion. I mean, it just just defies all

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Speaker 2: sense of logic to me, Katie. If you're a young

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Speaker 2: person who's committed a crime and you know this is

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Speaker 2: a program that's meant to be able to reform them,

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Speaker 2: then it should be mandatory for yous to sit down

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Speaker 2: with their victim. Now, if the victim doesn't want to,

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Speaker 2: then that is totally fine. I completely understand that, but

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Speaker 2: to give the criminal the opportunity not to participate is

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Speaker 2: just an absolute joke.

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Speaker 1: Lea, we are going to have to wrap up, but

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask very quickly, where are things

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Speaker 1: at with the colp's fuel legislation. Is that going to

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Speaker 1: be something that's on the table throughout these final sittings

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Speaker 1: of the parliamentary year.

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Speaker 2: It most certainly is. We're very, very excited about our

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Speaker 2: fuel legislation. We certainly hope the government allowed debate and

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Speaker 2: support it. We had them crowing from the rooftops in

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Speaker 2: question time last innings about how excited they were to

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Speaker 2: debate it. So, Katie, I'm looking forward to hearing all

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Speaker 2: of their contributions around how the CLP is driving down

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Speaker 2: the price of fuel for territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, Lea Finocchio, the opposition leader. We will leave it there.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, as always for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you and take care