1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, 4 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: the tenth of March. I'm Zara Sidler, I'm Billy fitz Simon's. 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 2: In case you missed it, people can no longer watch 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 2: porn on porn Hub. That is unless you have an 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: existing account. And if you don't have an existing account, 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: well you now can't create one. That's because of a 9 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: new code that came into force in Australia yesterday that 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: requires all porn sites to verify the ages of its users. 11 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: Now we're going to discuss the new laws and why 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: porn hub is responding by shutting off most access to 13 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: its website in today's podcast. 14 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: Zara, I want to start this podcast by doing something 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: that I never thought I would do, which is searching 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: up porn hub with you. 17 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: Oh, I would be building. 18 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: I think that because this is a huge development that 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: Australians can no longer watch porn Hub. I've previously done 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: some reporting on this on overseas countries, so I remember 21 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: UK has done something like this. Yeah, and what I 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: learned from that is that porn hub is actually one 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: of the most popular websites in the world. I think 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: it's top ten in Australia. 25 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: It is the ninth most popular website in Australia. 26 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: That is crazy. 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: I actually have the list here I can show you. 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: So we have Google, YouTube, Facebook, Reddit, Instagram, chatchbt, Wikipedia, 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: and then porn Hub and then Pornhub And do you 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: know what it's above that really annoys me? It's above 31 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: the daily Ods, It's about the daily ods. It's above 32 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: bomb people finding out about the weather for poor weather seriously. 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: But yes, it is a huge website. 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: So if we type porn Hub into Google, yeah, and 35 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: then I'm in. I have selected that I am over 36 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: eighteen ye. And then if I well, there's no pawn 37 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: firstly really coming up on the website the home yes, 38 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: and then what category do I. 39 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: Mean to videos? 40 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: Videos? 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: So on the top porn videos yeah. Videos. Then you 42 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: can see there's been a pop up. 43 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: There's a pop up that asks for me to log 44 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: in with my email and password, and right after that 45 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: it says porn hub is not currently accepting new account 46 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: registrations in your region. So basically I can only log 47 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: in if I have an account, an existing account, an 48 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: existing account and if I would now like to create 49 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: a new account. No, die, I can't not an option 50 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: that is huge news. 51 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really big. I mean, given again the traffic 52 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: numbers that we know, but also just behaviors that we 53 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 2: understand about people in the world, and how much pornography 54 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: is consumed, and that Pornhub is the biggest of these websites, 55 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: it's a really significant change. 56 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Okay. And so before we get to I guess how 57 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: this has happened, I think we should first explain the why. 58 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: So this was introduced by the E Safety Commissioner truly 59 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: inman grant. Why was this introduced? 60 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: So when we talk about this being introduced, the E 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 2: Safety Commissioner in September last year first announced that she 62 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: planned to require sites like porn Hub and other sites 63 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 2: that she said how's harmful content they had to have 64 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: age verification assurances. What that means is that from and 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: it was from this week, sites like Pornhub needed to 66 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: be able to verify that people who were entering their 67 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: website were over the age of eighteen, different from the 68 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: social media ban which is the age of sixteen, and 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: companies like Meta, you know, Snapchat, whoever it was, had 70 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: to prove that. Here we're talking about eighteen plus, and 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: we needed those websites to be using technology to confirm 72 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: no one under the age of eighteen was accessing them. 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: And just to be clear, the law doesn't require porn 74 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: hub to take this step of not allowing anyone to 75 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: watch porn, but that has just been Pornhub's response. 76 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Just so that there's full clarity. Porn Hub 77 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 2: already has a requirement for you to be over the 78 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: age of eighteen to access it, but that has looked 79 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: very different from what the E Safety Commissioner wants. So 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: typically in the past, if you went onto Pornhub, it 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 2: would say are you over the age of eighteen? Yes? 82 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: No? 83 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: If you clicked yes, no further questions, you were in 84 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 2: So it was pretty easy to lie basically, yeah, I 85 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: mean the same as any of us setting up an 86 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: accounts on social media when we were twelve and a 87 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: half and you had to be thirteen. Like, everyone's always 88 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: found a way around these things. But what the E 89 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 2: Safety Commissioner was saying was that the harm was so 90 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: significant of people under the age of eighteen, She said, 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: particularly young men accessing these websites, that she wanted those 92 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: websites to be responsible for making sure that they're not 93 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: on there. 94 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: And so how did they want companies like porn hub 95 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: to verify the ages of their users. 96 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 2: Basically, there was no one size fits all. There wasn't 97 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: you have to do this? The e Safety Commissioner ran 98 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: through a few different versions of what that age assurance 99 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 2: technology could look like. For example, some of the things 100 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: that were floated were confirmation by a parent of age. 101 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: Soho, can I pause you? That seems unlikely that are 102 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,720 Speaker 1: sixteen year old boys going to go to their parents 103 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: and say, can you please give. 104 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: Mum I want to watch porn? Yes? Yeah, no, that 105 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 2: one is unlikely, but I will just say that this 106 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 2: isn't just for porn websites. There were also other harmful 107 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: content warnings around other sites, so this is also trying 108 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: to crack down on very violent and also suicidal related 109 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: themes that were emerging on other sites or chatbots or whatever. 110 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: It was, so not sure that checking with mum was 111 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: quite for this one. There was photo ID, so you 112 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: having to provide identification that shows you over the age 113 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: of eighteen. Facial age estimation that's usually around like can 114 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: AI detect how old you are. Hopefully that's not an 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 2: unflattering depiction of how old you are. Credit card checks, 116 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 2: there were a whole host of things, but none of 117 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: them were the one thing that were required. It was 118 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 2: you can choose how you want to do it. You 119 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: just have to do it and prove you're doing it. 120 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: But porn Hub has not done that. No, we will 121 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: get to that in a moment, but first, here is 122 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: a quick message from today's sponsor. One thing that I 123 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: think is interesting about this age verification process is that 124 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: if we think about the social media ban, myself as 125 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: someone who is over eighteen, that hasn't impacted me at all, 126 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: and I have not had to prove that I am 127 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: over eighteen. But in this scenario, every single person, according 128 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: to this new law, would need to actively verify their age. 129 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: So it's not just impacting the people under eighteen, it's 130 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: impacting everyone. Yeah. 131 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,400 Speaker 2: And one of the things that I've read about is 132 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 2: that some companies that are now caught under this don't 133 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: have the technology to store that information, and so they 134 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 2: require you to do it every single time you want 135 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: to WATR on and that that would be a very 136 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 2: high barrier to entry, and as a result, the idea 137 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: is that they think they'll get less traffic to their websites. 138 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: And another thing that I'm sure many people are thinking 139 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: about is privacy. Yeah, because this is quite sensitive information 140 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: that you would be giving over to these porn companies. 141 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean this was also something that was raised 142 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: when it came to the social media ban. It's that 143 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: are we talking about storing children's data and who is 144 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: in control of that data and what if there is 145 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: you know, a cyber attack and things like that. Here, 146 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 2: you're right, we're talking about handing over potentially your identification 147 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: to a porn website. And interestingly, said porn website, So 148 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: porn hubs parent company said back in twenty twenty three, 149 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: So three years ago, they said, any regulations that require 150 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of adult sites to collect significant amounts 151 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: of highly sensitive personal information is putting user safety in jeopardy. 152 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: They are identifying that they think there are privacy concerns 153 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: when it comes to collecting and maintaining that data. 154 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: And so in this scenario, they have complied because they 155 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: have just shut down. I mean they've gone further than complying, 156 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: They've taken it a step further. 157 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting I don't know if the E Safety 158 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: Commissioner would say that they've necessarily complied, because I don't 159 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: know how they've back verified if that makes sense, Like 160 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: all the people who have accounts can still access porn Hub, 161 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 2: and given in the past, all you have to do 162 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 2: is check I'm over eighteen. I don't know if they 163 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 2: are complying, but what they're doing is making sure that 164 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: moving forward, no one can access it. So if you 165 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 2: don't have an account, or if you didn't have an 166 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 2: account yesterday, you can't now make an account. There is 167 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: none of that technology. You aren't handing over your ID, 168 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: you just don't have the option. You cannot access porn 169 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: Hub without an existing account. 170 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: And porn Hub is quite I mean, it's one of 171 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: the big I imagine it's the biggest. It's the biggest 172 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: porn company in the world. So making sure that they 173 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: are complying with the law is easier than the smaller companies. 174 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: What if they don't comply the smaller companies. 175 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: Well, I mean the rules are that if a company 176 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: doesn't comply, they face penalties. And I say that to 177 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 2: be really clear that we're not talking about if a 178 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 2: seventeen year old accesses porn Hub and somehow gets around it. 179 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: They're not in trouble. The way that this is set up, 180 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: similar to the social media ban, is that the companies 181 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: are liable and thus they can face penalties of up 182 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 2: to forty nine and a half million dollars per breach. Wow. 183 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I imagine that because porn Hub has taken 184 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: this approach, we can presume that they don't. 185 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: Agree with this law. Yeah. 186 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: What have they said about that? 187 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: They've been pretty explicit in it's not necessarily about the 188 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: execution of how this code will work, but about the 189 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: idea behind it. It should be said they stand to 190 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 2: profit from more eyeballs on their website, and so there 191 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: is a financial argument that they're making. But they say, 192 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: all our evidence it shows that age verification does not 193 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 2: effectively protect miners and instead creates harms relating to data 194 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: privacy and exposure to illegal content on non compliant platforms. 195 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 2: They're making the argument, is this going to create a 196 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 2: black market for porn, which I mean already exists, But 197 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: is this then going to push people off websites like 198 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: porn Hub and onto more unregulated spaces online? 199 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: And this isn't It's not like the social media band 200 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: where Australia was the first to do it. This is 201 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: not a unique idea. We've explained on the podcast. The 202 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: UK has done it. I'm pretty sure France has done it, 203 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: and porn hub has taken similar. 204 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: Steps, right correct, Yeah, there is precedent here. They've done 205 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 2: the same in France. In the UK it was last 206 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: month that they banned all new accounts, similar to what 207 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: we've seen here. They also have some cases in the 208 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: US in certain states they've taken local authorities to court 209 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 2: over bands. So this is yet seemingly a global thing 210 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 2: that is happening. Pornhub is almost representative of the entire 211 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: industry because it is so big, it has such a monopoly, 212 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: and so it'll be really interesting to see what happens here. 213 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: Will they be penalized, Will that penalty be enforceable, Will 214 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: it force other people to change their behaviors and other 215 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: websites to change remains to be seen. 216 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: I guess to wrap up, I think one thing that 217 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: is always discussed when we are talking about porn is 218 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: how it impacts young men and boys and their views 219 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: towards sex and women and women. Do you think this 220 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: will completely change that? 221 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 2: I think that there are a range of responses, both 222 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 2: from government from regulators. People are trying to intervene here. 223 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,680 Speaker 2: We know though, that young men are consuming porn at 224 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: significant levels and where they go next. They're not going 225 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: to change their behaviors overnight. That is going to take 226 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: a long time. If they can't access, for example, the 227 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: biggest porn sites in the world, where will they go? 228 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: I guess that's the question. 229 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: Such an interesting thing to think about, Zara, Thank you 230 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: for explaining it. Thank you, Billy, and thank you so 231 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: much for listening to this episode of The Daily os. 232 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: We'll be back later today with the evening headlines, but 233 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: until then, we hope you have a lovely day. 234 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 235 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,079 Speaker 2: Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl country. 236 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 237 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 238 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,959 Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay 239 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 240 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: past and present.