WEBVTT - The plan to protect LGBT+ discrimination in religious schools

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this this is the daily os.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Odds. It is Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty fifth of March.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm billy, i'm zara.

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<v Speaker 2>An independent legal body has advised the federal government on

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<v Speaker 2>how to legally protect LGBT plus staff and students are

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<v Speaker 2>religious schools. The government asked the Australian Law Reform Commission

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<v Speaker 2>to review federal anti discrimination laws in light of a

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<v Speaker 2>year's long debate about religious freedoms. We'll tell you everything

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<v Speaker 2>you need to know in today's deep dive, But for Sarah,

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<v Speaker 2>what's making headlines.

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<v Speaker 3>Islamic State has taken responsibility for an attack in Moscow

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<v Speaker 3>that killed more than one hundred and thirty people and

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<v Speaker 3>injured one hundred and forty others. Eleven people have been

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<v Speaker 3>detained over the attack at a concert hall, which is

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<v Speaker 3>the deadliest attack inside Russia in twenty years. US intelligence

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<v Speaker 3>has revealed they reportedly warned of a possible attack. The

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<v Speaker 3>Russian authorities claimed the intelligence lacked specific detail.

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<v Speaker 2>US President Joe Biden has canceled the student debts of

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<v Speaker 2>nearly seventy eight thousand public service workers including teachers and

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<v Speaker 2>frontline workers. Biden will wife nearly six billion US dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>which is nearly nine billion Australian dollars in debt. It

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<v Speaker 2>follows several stages of a government policy canceling student debt.

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans have criticized Biden for the plan, claiming it will

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<v Speaker 2>leave US taxpayers worse off.

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<v Speaker 3>Tasmanian Labor leader Rebecca White has declared her party will

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<v Speaker 3>not be able to claim victory in the state's election,

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<v Speaker 3>which means the Liberal Party will need to form government

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<v Speaker 3>by working with crossbenches and minor parties. According to the

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<v Speaker 3>ABC at the time of recording, the Liberals will finish

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<v Speaker 3>with between fourteen and sixteen seats, so that is short

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<v Speaker 3>of the eighteen that's needed to govern in a majority.

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<v Speaker 3>Current Premier Jeremy Rockcliffe said yesterday, I look forward to

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<v Speaker 3>discussions over the course of the coming week. I've already

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<v Speaker 3>reached out to potential independence and indeed the Lambee Party

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<v Speaker 3>as well.

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<v Speaker 2>And today's good news In a world first, surgeons in

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<v Speaker 2>the US have successfully transplanted a pig kidney into a

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<v Speaker 2>living person. Scientists use gene editing technology to remove harmful

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<v Speaker 2>pig genes and they also added certain human genes to

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<v Speaker 2>improve the organ's compatibility with a human and boost the

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<v Speaker 2>chance of the transplants success.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so Billy, religious discrimination is back in the news

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<v Speaker 3>and it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Quite a complex topic.

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<v Speaker 3>Can you just take us back to where the conversation

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<v Speaker 3>around this legislation first began.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's really really complicated, and so first I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to set out the two main issues that we

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<v Speaker 2>are addressing that will shape this entire conversation. So the

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<v Speaker 2>first is the fact that there is not an explicit

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<v Speaker 2>federal law banning religious discrimination in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>There are laws that target sex discrimination, racial discrimination, but

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<v Speaker 3>not one specifically about religious discrimination exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the first issue. The second is around the

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<v Speaker 2>idea of religious exemptions. So should discrimination be allowed if

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<v Speaker 2>it is due to religious reasons?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you give me an example?

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<v Speaker 3>Ye?

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<v Speaker 2>Yees? So an example is like, should religious schools be

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<v Speaker 2>able to not employ a teacher on the basis of

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<v Speaker 2>their sexuality?

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<v Speaker 3>So if it's a religious school that doesn't believe in

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<v Speaker 3>same sex marriage, for example, exactly, then they can choose

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<v Speaker 3>not to hire a teacher or discriminate against a teacher

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<v Speaker 3>on that basis.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And that's a really big part of this conversation

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<v Speaker 2>is should that legally be allowed?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay?

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<v Speaker 2>And you can't really talk about one of those issues

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<v Speaker 2>without talking about the.

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<v Speaker 1>Other because it's a byproduct exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But to go back to your question of where this

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<v Speaker 2>all started, we need to go back to twenty seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>when same sex marriage was legalized in Australia. Now, long story, short.

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<v Speaker 2>After same sex marriage was legalized, a review was promised

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<v Speaker 2>to conservative religious groups who weren't happy about this legislation passing.

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<v Speaker 2>And the review promised to look into whether Australian law

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<v Speaker 2>adequately protects the right to freedom of religion in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, honestly, I think if we go into exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>that review said and what it recommended, we would be

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<v Speaker 2>here all day. And I want to get into the

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<v Speaker 2>more recent developments of this story, but I will just

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<v Speaker 2>focus on how the coalition government responded to that review.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So we're talking about the coalition. I believe at

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<v Speaker 3>that point it was led by Scott Morrison.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, Scott Morrison had just got in.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, So how did the Morrison government rect spun

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<v Speaker 3>to the review?

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, so he promised a Religious Discrimination Act, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he tried to pass this legislation actually a

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<v Speaker 2>number of times, and it basically would have made it

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<v Speaker 2>unlawful to discriminate against someone on the basis of their

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<v Speaker 2>religious belief.

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<v Speaker 3>So that was focusing on the first point you spoke about,

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<v Speaker 3>that there was no federal law that specifically was about

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<v Speaker 3>discrimination on the basis of religion.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, but where the controversy arose was on how it

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<v Speaker 2>impacted that second point. Yeah, So it was really controversial

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<v Speaker 2>at the time basically because critics said that whilst the

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<v Speaker 2>bill indeed would have protected religious people from discrimination, it

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<v Speaker 2>also would have consequently led to more discrimination against LGBT

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<v Speaker 2>plus people.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So just to give you an idea, one MP who

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<v Speaker 2>was actually from the same party as Morrison said that

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<v Speaker 2>this legislation that he was trying to introduce would have

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<v Speaker 2>left a transgender child open to lead being bullied, excluded,

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<v Speaker 2>or even expelled because of their gender identity. Now, as

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<v Speaker 2>you can imagine, the politics around the time were, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, really controversial, and ultimately it failed to pass

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<v Speaker 2>despite multiple attempts.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember that time so clearly. I think it was

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<v Speaker 3>the only time in my memory that a number of

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<v Speaker 3>Liberal MPs crossed the floor, so they physically moved across

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<v Speaker 3>the floor to sit with the opposition, to vote against

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<v Speaker 3>their own party because they said it was a bunch

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<v Speaker 3>of moderate MPs, most of whom lost their seats. Actually,

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<v Speaker 3>they said that they couldn't in good conscience vote for

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<v Speaker 3>this bill. And it was extraordinary. It was so contentious,

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<v Speaker 3>it was all over the news. But then they kind

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<v Speaker 3>of just went away.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well it failed right before the twenty twenty two election

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<v Speaker 2>when Morrison was ousted as the Prime Minister, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that left it to the Labor government to pick up

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<v Speaker 2>this mess and lead the path forward on this really

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<v Speaker 2>complicated debate.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So Anthony Albernezi then had to deal with this

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<v Speaker 3>piece of legislation that had failed before, but there was

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<v Speaker 3>obviously an appetite from some for it to pass.

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<v Speaker 1>What was Labour's position on the bill?

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<v Speaker 2>So Labour said that they supported protecting religious people from discrimination,

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<v Speaker 2>but not if it came at the expense of other

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<v Speaker 2>people's right not to be discriminated against. Now, when they

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<v Speaker 2>got into government, they looked for advice. They said, we're

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<v Speaker 2>not exactly the experts on this, we need advice on

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<v Speaker 2>what to do now, and so they turned to the

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<v Speaker 2>Australian Law Reform Commission to recommend a path forward. And

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't know the Australian Law Reform Commission, they

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<v Speaker 2>are an independent agency designed to do exactly that, to

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<v Speaker 2>advise the government on law reform.

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<v Speaker 3>And so, I mean, I feel like we've gone down

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<v Speaker 3>memory lane a bit, We've gone back to twenty seventeen.

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<v Speaker 3>But my understanding is that that brings us up to

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<v Speaker 3>the present to now. So last week the Commission finally

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<v Speaker 3>delivered its recommendations to the government.

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<v Speaker 1>What were the recommendations? What did they say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was hundreds of pages long. So obviously I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not going to go through all of the recommendations, but

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<v Speaker 2>a really significant one is the recommendation for the government

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<v Speaker 2>to remove something called Section thirty eight in the Sex Discrimination.

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<v Speaker 3>Act, which is obviously not a religious discrimination Act. So

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<v Speaker 3>we're talking about existing legislation that's already about discrimination and

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<v Speaker 3>there's an exemption there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's an exemption, and it's really important to understand this.

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<v Speaker 2>So currently in the Sex Discrimination Act, there is an

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<v Speaker 2>exemption which allows religious schools to discriminate against someone based

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<v Speaker 2>on their sex, their sexual orientation, gender identity, or their

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<v Speaker 2>marital or relationship status.

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<v Speaker 1>And what would that mean Scrapping it?

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<v Speaker 2>So, scrapping it entirely would mean that religious schools cannot

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<v Speaker 2>dismiss staff or expel students based on, you know, if

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<v Speaker 2>they're gay, or if they're transgender, or other similar facts.

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<v Speaker 2>And so this report said that getting rid of that

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<v Speaker 2>exemption would substantially narrow instances where religious schools can discriminate

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<v Speaker 2>against people.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so there we're talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry to keep going back to the first two groups

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<v Speaker 3>you set out, but that's the second group. But what

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<v Speaker 3>about the first group? We spoke about the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>there was a discussion around protecting the right of religion too.

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<v Speaker 2>And so in that regard, it recommended keeping the right

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<v Speaker 2>of religious schools to preference hiring someone of the same

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<v Speaker 2>religion over a candidate who does not follow the school's faith. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So that would allow religious schools to require adherence to

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<v Speaker 2>their faith as part of their vetting process for jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>as part of a school's broader effort to build a

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<v Speaker 2>community of faith. So basically they just recommended keeping that

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<v Speaker 2>and really protecting that, and how they recommended protecting that

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<v Speaker 2>is by introducing an exemption in the Fair Work Act,

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<v Speaker 2>which sets out workplace laws in Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so that was all advice that was given to

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<v Speaker 3>the government in the form of a report of many pages.

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<v Speaker 3>How did the government respond to this advice.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, they've just said that they are considering these recommendations

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<v Speaker 2>and that they'll look at it before they give a

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<v Speaker 2>more concrete way forward. But what was a really interesting

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<v Speaker 2>development in the government's response to this was that Prime

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<v Speaker 2>Minister Anthony Albanesi said that he will not pass a

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<v Speaker 2>law on religious discrimination unless the Opposition supports it, and

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<v Speaker 2>so that is a big development. And what he's saying

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<v Speaker 2>is that this has been such a divisive debate in

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<v Speaker 2>Australia over the last literally seven years, i mean since

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<v Speaker 2>same sex marriage was legalized, and he's saying, we do

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<v Speaker 2>not want this to be divisive anymore. We are going

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<v Speaker 2>to do this with the opposition and move forward.

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<v Speaker 3>But I mean that's fascinating because the opposition or the

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<v Speaker 3>Coalition themselves couldn't agree as a party, they had their

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<v Speaker 3>own members crossing the floor. Labor would be the same

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of you know, lots of different views and

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<v Speaker 3>emotions and all the rest. I can hardly see bipartisanship

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<v Speaker 3>happening in this sort of context.

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<v Speaker 2>Clearly Albanezi possibly thinks that that could happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Have we had any indication from the opposition.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, TDA journalist Harry Sekulich spoke to the opposition.

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<v Speaker 2>He spoke to the Shadow Attorney General, Mikaylia Cash, who

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<v Speaker 2>told him that the coalition notes that representatives of Christian schools,

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<v Speaker 2>the Catholic Church, Islamic schools and a number of other

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<v Speaker 2>faith groups have expressed serious concerns with this report and

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<v Speaker 2>its recommendations. And she also added that she encourages the

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<v Speaker 2>Albanese government to address these concerns. Now, when Harry pressed

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<v Speaker 2>her on what exactly those concerns were, she did not clarify.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, interesting, still a bit to work through there. What

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<v Speaker 3>about the community more broadly, this is legislation that would

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<v Speaker 3>affect many, many people.

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<v Speaker 1>What have we heard from the community.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, Michaleya Cash, she just mentioned Christian schools one

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<v Speaker 2>example of a group of schools that weren't happy, and

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<v Speaker 2>she's right. Christian Schools Australia said the recommendations amount to

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<v Speaker 2>quote a direct attack on faith and freedom of belief

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<v Speaker 2>in Australia. And they also said that Christian education would

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<v Speaker 2>cease to exist under the proposed changes. But then on

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<v Speaker 2>the other hand, there's Equality Australia, which is the peak

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<v Speaker 2>LGBT plus body in Australia, and they welcomed the report

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<v Speaker 2>and they urged the government to make the recommendations law.

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<v Speaker 2>The CEO of Equality Australia, Anna Brown said, quote, every

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<v Speaker 2>day we delay these reforms, there will be more students

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<v Speaker 2>who are robbed of their chance to become a school

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<v Speaker 2>prefect or take their partner to the formal and there

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<v Speaker 2>will be more teachers who are fired or told they

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<v Speaker 2>no longer fit for any promotions. So there she's addressing

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<v Speaker 2>the recommendation to completely get rid of that exemption I

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<v Speaker 2>talked about of Section thirty eight.

0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.440
<v Speaker 3>It'll be really interesting to see what happens from here.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it tore the last government apart and it

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<v Speaker 3>seems like there are still many unresolved issues that need attention,

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of work cut out for the government and

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<v Speaker 3>especially if they're seeking bipartisan support there.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much for.

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Joining us on the Daily OZ. If you enjoyed today's episode.

0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.280
<v Speaker 3>You can follow us on Spotify or Apple. Send the

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<v Speaker 3>you every weekday morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Or if you're listening on YouTube, you can subscribe and

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<v Speaker 2>you can see that Zara and I are actually wearing

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<v Speaker 2>the same shirts.

0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.800
<v Speaker 1>We have morphed into the same past three years in

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:29.720
<v Speaker 1>the making. Thanks for joining us. My name is Lily

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Caalcuton woman from

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Gadighol Country.

0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 2>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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<v Speaker 2>all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.920
<v Speaker 2>our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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<v Speaker 2>past and present,