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Speaker 1: Is it just comes good by rewriting, by rewriting and

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Speaker 1: rewriting and rewriting, putting it away between months, coming back

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Speaker 1: to it with.

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Speaker 2: A clear eye and thinking I couldn't have written that.

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Speaker 1: That is awful. How didn't I see this, this and.

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Speaker 2: This that was wrong with that?

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Speaker 1: And you know the process of writing a very short

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Speaker 1: book can literally take two years.

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Speaker 3: This is the Parenting in Perspective podcast. It's a happy

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Speaker 3: families podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson and I've

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Speaker 3: got to admit I was so excited when Mem Fox

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Speaker 3: agreed to be a guest on the Parenting in Perspective

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Speaker 3: podcast because as a writer myself, it's not every day

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Speaker 3: that you get to chat with one of Australia's most

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Speaker 3: loved and respected authors. Mem Fox grew up on a

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Speaker 3: mission field in Rhodesia now known as Zimbabwe, before she

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Speaker 3: moved to London in the mid nineteen sixties so that

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Speaker 3: she could study drama. And it was those formative years

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Speaker 3: in Africa where she saw firsthand the racial segregation that

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Speaker 3: divided the nations. And so this set mem on a

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Speaker 3: lifelong course to promote tolerance and unity through her writing

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Speaker 3: and her speaking and her teaching well. Mem Fox is

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Speaker 3: well known as a prolific writer of children's books. Her

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Speaker 3: classic picture book Possum Magic, which was first published in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty three, has become one of Australia's all time bestsellers.

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Speaker 3: I think we have a couple of versions of it

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Speaker 3: on our shelves at home, and since then mem has

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Speaker 3: written around about forty books, in fact more than forty

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Speaker 3: books for children, as well as a number of titles

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Speaker 3: for adults. Mem is also well known as an educator.

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Speaker 3: She's worked as an associate professor in Literacy Studies at

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Speaker 3: Flinders University, and her passion for literacy has seen her

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Speaker 3: travel the world, urging parents and teachers to read aloud

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Speaker 3: to children, especially during those early years up to the

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Speaker 3: age of five and even beyond. So it was an

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Speaker 3: absolute honor and pleasure to spend some time talking with

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Speaker 3: Meme Fox about her life and a parenting journey, and

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Speaker 3: as always so I began by asking about the men

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Speaker 3: Fox family.

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Speaker 1: The mem Fox family is absolutely minute. It's minute. I

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Speaker 1: have one husband of fifty one years, I have one

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Speaker 1: daughter who's not much younger than that, and I have

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Speaker 1: one grandson. And the grandson is ten, and as I

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Speaker 1: say to people, he's theaven that we live in.

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Speaker 3: That's it. It's just very, very small. And for somebody

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Speaker 3: like me with six daughters, I can't imagine how quiet

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Speaker 3: your home must have.

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Speaker 2: I can't, you know.

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Speaker 1: The reverse is the situation I was, you know, every

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Speaker 1: time you mentioned you know, and you used to mention

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Speaker 1: it in your columns as well. I knew you had

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Speaker 1: six daughters, and I would always think about the laundry,

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Speaker 1: and I would think about, you know, kids going to

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Speaker 1: ballet or soccer or whatever, and how you organize the

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Speaker 1: logistics of getting kids to school.

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Speaker 2: In one car on time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, unbelievab unbelievable. I once said to my daughter,

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Speaker 1: you know, because I had two careers running at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I was a university lecturer full time and

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Speaker 1: I was writer four times for fourteen years. And I

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Speaker 1: once said to her, I think she was about fourteen.

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Speaker 1: I said, sweetie, you know, if i'd had a second child,

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Speaker 1: I would have build it. And she said, she said, if.

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Speaker 2: You hadn't, I would I would have.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful. You know, all families are different, and that's why

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Speaker 1: the world is so interesting, because the variety of family

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Speaker 1: produces the variety of character produces the variety of politician, musician, football.

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Speaker 2: Player, you name it.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's fascinating, absolutely fascinating.

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Speaker 3: So tell me about your growing up men. You know

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Speaker 3: you from what I read, you grew up in Africa.

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Speaker 3: You spent your your school years, your childhood in Africa.

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Speaker 2: My parents were missionaries.

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Speaker 1: I grew up on a mission, very close to a

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Speaker 1: big city, so it wasn't a wild at Africa or anything.

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Speaker 1: You know. The school I went to was an all

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Speaker 1: white Hall girls high school.

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Speaker 3: Before you told me about that all white or girls' school,

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Speaker 3: my understanding is that when you first got to Rhodesia

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Speaker 3: or Zimbabwe as we would call it today, that you

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Speaker 3: actually went to a school that was all black, you

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Speaker 3: were the only white child in the school.

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: I did because I was on the mission and there

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Speaker 1: was a mission school. I mean, my dad was there

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Speaker 1: as a teacher trainer. That's his job was to direct

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Speaker 1: the teacher's college on the mission, and so of course

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Speaker 1: there was a school on the mission. Well why not

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Speaker 1: go out of your front door straight into the school,

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Speaker 1: you know, why get into a car and go to

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Speaker 1: another school?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: So my parents just I think they knew justin I

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Speaker 1: think they knew it was against the law, but they

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Speaker 1: let me go to the school on the mission, which

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Speaker 1: was totally African, and there was that was against the

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Speaker 1: law at the time. That was against the law that

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Speaker 1: schools were completely so segregated.

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Speaker 3: So what was that experience when you're the only white

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Speaker 3: child in an all African school.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't an experience. It wasn't an experience because kids' notice,

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Speaker 1: there was no difference between them and me. That's the

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Speaker 1: wonderful thing about kids. There was no difference. The difference

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Speaker 1: happened when I was taken out of that school and

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Speaker 1: I had to go to an all white school. And

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Speaker 1: I had been barefoot for a lot of my life,

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Speaker 1: I suppose, except in deep winter. I'd been bare thought

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Speaker 1: and I had to wear shoes for school every day.

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Speaker 1: And I also spoke English with an African English accent. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that would have been the accent of people's servants, right,

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Speaker 1: that was the accent that I spoke English with. And

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Speaker 1: I was mocked and bullied and laughed at friendless. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I've almost got tears in my eyes thinking about it.

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Speaker 2: Was terrible. It was terrible.

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Speaker 1: I remember sitting in the school toilets at the age

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Speaker 1: of six, just crying my eyes out.

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Speaker 3: So this was this was right at the very beginning

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Speaker 3: of your schooling.

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Speaker 2: You were, Yes, it was. It was my second year

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Speaker 2: at schooling.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So you mentioned to you got an entire year in

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Speaker 3: your original site.

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Speaker 1: I did, Yeah, I did, which was a damn good

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Speaker 1: start because the teaching was excellent.

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Speaker 2: And it was very strict. It was very rope learning.

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Speaker 1: You know, there were it was crowded. There were some

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Speaker 1: brilliant teachers, but also you know.

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Speaker 2: Some firm teaching. It was fine. I you know, I thrived.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

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Speaker 3: So how long were you in Africa? How long you

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Speaker 3: were were you in Rhodeso, Zimbabwe.

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Speaker 2: I was born in Melbourne.

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Speaker 1: I went there in nineteen forty six, and I say

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Speaker 1: I was six months old and then I left to

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Speaker 1: go to drama school in London at the age of nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, So you spent your entire childhood.

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Speaker 1: My entire childhood, My entire childhood was in Rhodeshayah.

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Speaker 3: So tremendously, tremendously racist attitudes pervaded during that time, escalating

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Speaker 3: to violence and murder, and I'd imagine that you must

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Speaker 3: have seen and heard witnessed some extraordinary things. When you

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Speaker 3: consider that upbringing, what impact do you think that that

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Speaker 3: had on you as a writer and as a parent

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Speaker 3: and as an educator.

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Speaker 1: As a writer, I know that one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I've learned from children is that they are not

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Speaker 1: as racist as adults.

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Speaker 2: On the whole.

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Speaker 1: They're not as racist as adults. Give them a chance,

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Speaker 1: and they're not racist. But I know that their parents

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Speaker 1: need re educating.

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Speaker 2: It's not so much the.

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Speaker 1: Children who need re educating, it's the parents who need

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Speaker 1: re educating.

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Speaker 2: So there are several of my.

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Speaker 1: Books, in particular book called Whoever You Are and another

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Speaker 1: one called Ten Little Fingers and Ten Little Toes, and

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Speaker 1: both of those books are deeply anti racist, deeply, But

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Speaker 1: nobody would pick it up and say, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a deeply anti racist book.

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Speaker 2: Because if you.

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Speaker 1: Did pick up a book that was, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: a deeply anti racist book, you wouldn't want to read it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: You can't bash kid's kids loads being taught a lesson

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Speaker 1: in a book that's supposed to entertain them, as soon

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Speaker 1: as an adult tries to tell them to save the

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Speaker 1: Whale or Save the Planets or whatever.

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Speaker 2: That's the non fiction. That's not the.

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Speaker 1: Fiction they load being told a lesson in fiction.

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Speaker 3: Well, it feels controlling, doesn't it. It feels like it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've spent many many nights laying on the bed

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Speaker 3: beside any of my six daughters reading. I have ten

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Speaker 3: little fingers and ten little toes. I've read that so

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Speaker 3: many times. I don't know how many of your books

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Speaker 3: we have on our shelves, but we have a few,

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Speaker 3: and a recent book of yours. I'm Australian too, you said,

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Speaker 3: and I quote that you wrote it in the hopes

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Speaker 3: that it will spark spirited discussions about australianness, create an

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Speaker 3: awareness of Australian immigration of the centuries, and begin to

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Speaker 3: calm the rising racism in Australia. So do you feel

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Speaker 3: like racism is on the rise in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: I think, I think I do, And I think it's

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Speaker 1: a matter of leadership. I think our leaders of Australia

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Speaker 1: at the moment, I think are so racist and so

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Speaker 1: cold hearted, so lacking in empathies, so unable to see

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Speaker 1: that people of a different race and a different religion

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Speaker 1: have the same hopes, you know, the same love, the

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Speaker 1: same sense of humor, you know, the same need for

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Speaker 1: food and comfort and hugs and care. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: a failure of leadership, and I think we are. Racism

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Speaker 1: goes in ways. You know, we sometimes we are more

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Speaker 1: racist than at other times, and and you know, our

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Speaker 1: treatment of refugees and so on is it's just sickening.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you've grown up as I did, in

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Speaker 1: a multicultural society where you're in the minority, you are

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Speaker 1: actually in the minority, you do realize everybody's the same.

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Speaker 1: Every body is the same. Some people are bastards. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter what color they are and what religion they are,

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Speaker 1: they're bustards. And some people are just the warmest, most

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Speaker 1: beautiful people you could imagine, you know, color, it's just

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Speaker 1: literally skin deep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting as well, reflecting on the experience that

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Speaker 3: you had. You're in an all black school and having

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Speaker 3: the time of your life is a five year old.

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Speaker 3: Then as a six year old, you go to an

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Speaker 3: all girls, all white school and find yourself sobbing in

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Speaker 3: the toilets because you can't fit in. Now you're different,

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Speaker 3: You're still in the minority, because your accent's just a

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Speaker 3: little bit off, or because you've come froankly, you've come

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Speaker 3: from the mission rather than from the fancy suburb down

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Speaker 3: the street.

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Speaker 2: Sure, sure, Sure, when you when.

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Speaker 3: You write your books, do you ever think to yourself,

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Speaker 3: how can I teach this lesson? I mean, is that

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Speaker 3: is that where these books have come from? Are you

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Speaker 3: thinking I want parents to get this and I want

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Speaker 3: children to get this. Is this your way of I

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Speaker 3: guess preaching this, this message of solidarity and unity?

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Speaker 1: I agree that you know. I can't really answer that question.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting because the books come from my heart. They

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Speaker 1: don't really come from my brain. If they were coming

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Speaker 1: from my brain, I would probably say.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm I want to get this lesson out.

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Speaker 1: But it's because I think because of my love of humanity,

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Speaker 1: I I just want I just want want in the world.

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Speaker 2: I just want kindness.

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Speaker 1: It's really it's not an overt thing. I mean, ten

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Speaker 1: little fingers and ten little choes that's written on a plane, right, okay.

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Speaker 1: And I thought I had been weeping and thought that

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Speaker 1: I was never going to write death. And I've been

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Speaker 1: to a conference in the States. I was on my

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Speaker 1: way home in the States. The people who had come

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Speaker 1: to one session at the conference had been parents, and

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Speaker 1: they had babies of all colors in their arms, because

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Speaker 1: they were all colors themselves and all religions. And as

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Speaker 1: they came, if they came with babies, that of course

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Speaker 1: they leaned over the desk that I was signing at

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Speaker 1: and I, you know, their babies were very close to me.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you can't resist putting your finger into

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Speaker 1: the fist of a little in a board up fists,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 3: They grab a hold of your finger, and yeah, you

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Speaker 3: feel so connected.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and in my subconscious and I was I had

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Speaker 1: taken the sleeping field because the only time I do

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Speaker 1: I knocked myself out on long flights and I was off.

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Speaker 1: I was off with the fairies, Justine.

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Speaker 2: That was really away.

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Speaker 1: And this picture of these constant children coming to me

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Speaker 1: with their little fingers, you know, And so it was

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Speaker 1: just it was written out of sweetness. It was written

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Speaker 1: out of trying to teach them.

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Speaker 3: It was how cute was that It's beautiful. I'm curious

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Speaker 3: you mentioned something and I'd like to just pick up

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Speaker 3: on that. You said, you're almost in tears because you

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Speaker 3: were thinking you would never write again. How does mem Fox,

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Speaker 3: the author of however many best sellers, you know, two

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Speaker 3: dozen best selling children's books, find herself at a point

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Speaker 3: where she's crying because she thinks, I just I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to write again. I won't write another children's book.

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Speaker 3: Would you be comfortable sharing why you might have felt

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Speaker 3: like that?

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Speaker 1: You know, every time I write a book, I think

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Speaker 1: to myself, I have lost it.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've lost it.

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Speaker 3: You have imposter syndrome.

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Speaker 1: Are probably because every time I start, I write rubbish,

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Speaker 1: you know. And but you can't improve on the blank page.

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Speaker 1: You have to write something in order to be able

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Speaker 1: to improve on it. You know, You've got to add

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Speaker 1: something on the page. So I write and I write

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Speaker 1: and I write, and it's rubbish. And I'm embarrassed myself,

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Speaker 1: and I think you couldn't have written this.

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Speaker 2: Your name's name Fox. You know you've got all these

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Speaker 2: books behind you. This could not be you. It could

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Speaker 2: not be you. And it is me. It's absolutely me.

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Speaker 1: And it just comes good by rewriting, by rewriting and

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Speaker 1: rewriting and rewriting, putting it away for three months, coming

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Speaker 1: back to it with a clear eye and thinking, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't have written that.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have written that. That is awful.

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Speaker 1: How didn't I see this, this, and this that was

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Speaker 1: wrong with that, and then rewrite that and then put

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Speaker 1: it away. And you know the process of writing a

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Speaker 1: very short book can it can literally take two years.

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Speaker 1: I mean it can take two years and you end

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Speaker 1: up with, you know, two hundred and sixty words. And

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Speaker 1: my daughter, at one of her many careers, was a journalist,

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Speaker 1: and she used to say to me, Mark, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? What will you actually tell me what you're

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Speaker 1: actually doing? I don't do it.

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Speaker 3: Because journalists churn out every day, a couple of thousand

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Speaker 3: words a.

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Speaker 1: Day, found, found, and out it comes. You know, she

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Speaker 1: just couldn't get it.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I still think she doesn't get it.

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Speaker 2: I think most people don't get it, to tell you, honest.

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Speaker 1: It's just, you know, it's hard, it's really hard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But it's also about I think there's a couple

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Speaker 3: of important principles to pull out of there for parents

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Speaker 3: in terms of their own raising of children and also

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Speaker 3: the things that they teach their children. You know, when

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Speaker 3: I reflect back on the way I used to raise

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Speaker 3: my children, I was doing the best that I could

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Speaker 3: at the time, and I thought I was I thought

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Speaker 3: it was okay at the time. But when I look

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Speaker 3: back at what I was doing, I think to myself,

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Speaker 3: oh my goodness, I can't believe that I would do

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Speaker 3: that or say that, or respond like that to one

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Speaker 3: of my children. And in the same way, you know,

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Speaker 3: you're looking at these words on the page and they're

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Speaker 3: the best that you had at the time, But three

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Speaker 3: months later, when you've taken a breather and how to look,

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Speaker 3: you're like, oh, oh my goodness, what was I thinking?

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Speaker 1: I think.

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Speaker 3: But there's a couple of important things here. The first

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Speaker 3: is that you've actually stopped how to think, given yourself

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Speaker 3: a break, and then turned around and and taken the

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Speaker 3: time to introspect and to analyze and to I guess,

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Speaker 3: go inside yourself and have a look at what you've

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Speaker 3: done and find ways to improve. I mean, that's a

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Speaker 3: critical process. But too often, I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people just sort of coast along and don't necessarily do

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Speaker 3: that deep inner work, that deep introspection that allows them

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Speaker 3: to reflect and change and learn to have that fresh view.

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Speaker 3: So I think that's tremendously important. But it's also something

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Speaker 3: We need to teach our children that they will keep

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Speaker 3: on getting better if they just have a go, put

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Speaker 3: it away, come back to it tomorrow or next week

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Speaker 3: or next month. It's such an important lesson in resilience.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to change tax for just a little while, ma'am,

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Speaker 3: and head in a different direction. Let's start with Possu Magic.

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Speaker 3: Poss and Magic is probably the book that most people

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Speaker 3: know you best for. It's the book that has probably

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Speaker 3: sold more copies than any of your others. I think

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Speaker 3: five million copies of poss and Magic.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's thirty sixty years old.

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Speaker 2: I think something it must be. It was a it's thirty.

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Speaker 1: Seven years old, justin so, you know, five million copies

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Speaker 1: and thirty seven years not exactly, you know, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's it's lovely, don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled and

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Speaker 1: I'm proud. Yes, it's not fifteen million, it's not five

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Speaker 1: million overnight.

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Speaker 3: So you've sold around five million copies of it. However,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of like that great JK. Rowling story

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Speaker 3: about Harry Potter. You rejected time and time and time

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Speaker 3: again over what was it like a five year period, Yes.

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Speaker 1: Nine rejections over five years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and now it's the best selling children's book

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Speaker 3: that Australia's ever seen. We talked a bit about racism,

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Speaker 3: but we've also been talking quite a lot about resilience.

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Speaker 3: What was it that made you keep on going? Why

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Speaker 3: did you believe in ploss and magic and how did

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Speaker 3: you keep going and keep pushing it. You'd never had

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Speaker 3: any previous success with writing and publications, but what made

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Speaker 3: you say this book? There's something about it. I've got

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Speaker 3: to try again, and I've got to try again, and

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Speaker 3: I've got to try again.

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Speaker 1: You know. I put it down to one thing, and

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Speaker 1: it's called a husband.

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Speaker 2: It's a husband who totally believes.

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Speaker 1: That you are the most talented thing that you know,

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Speaker 1: has ever entered the world of children's writing, and that

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Speaker 1: the lack of recognition is an appalling thing that's happening

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Speaker 1: in the world, and one must try again because somebody eventually,

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Speaker 1: surely will realize that my wife has a talent. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was like every time a rejection letter came and

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Speaker 1: I'd be devastated, you know, and humiliated. And even though

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Speaker 1: people always write nice rejection letters, but you know they're

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Speaker 1: not rude, and you think, oh, and you put it away,

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Speaker 1: and you don't do anything for a year, and then

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Speaker 1: you send it out again and you tweak it a bit,

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Speaker 1: you know, make it a little bit different from the

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Speaker 1: one that you've sent out before.

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Speaker 2: But really it was his' go on, you know.

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Speaker 1: Or I've been in a bookshop today and I have

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Speaker 1: read so many bad books you know that been published

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Speaker 1: with children.

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Speaker 2: Yours is ten times better thaness. You need to send

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Speaker 2: it up.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, And so it happened.

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Speaker 2: In the end, it happened.

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Speaker 1: If I myself, I don't think I would have had

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Speaker 1: to believe. I would have been not back so many

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Speaker 1: times I would have said to myself, probably listen, you know,

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Speaker 1: come on. Eight people have said, no, you're not really

390
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Speaker 1: going to try again, are you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah? And this is what great parents do for their

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Speaker 3: kids as well, right they don't. Actually, your husband, your

393
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Speaker 3: husband didn't do it for you. You had to write the book,

394
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Speaker 3: you had to send the manuscripts off and cop the

395
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 3: rejection letters. But as a I like to think of

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Speaker 3: parents and spouses as as hope builders. And what I'm

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Speaker 3: hearing at your your husband is a hope builder. He

398
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Speaker 3: said you can do this. I believe in you. You've

399
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Speaker 3: got this, let's try again. He builds you up, and.

400
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Speaker 2: I hope builder. That's a beautiful time. I love it. Fajastic.

401
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I love I love the story though, of

402
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 3: his support, and not just his support, but your willingness

403
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,680
Speaker 3: to be in partnership with him to the point where

404
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 3: you'll accept his influence and say, all right, I'll try again,

405
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 3: just to just to please you, just because I love you,

406
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,919
Speaker 3: just because you believe in me. Because as he believes

407
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,000
Speaker 3: in you, you begin to believe in yourself enough to

408
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 3: pluck up the courage to face rejection one more time.

409
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Speaker 1: Exactly, exactly. And the funny thing is that, now, if

410
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Speaker 1: you know there's a bad review of the book, which

411
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,639
Speaker 1: is not you know, it's not often that it happens,

412
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Speaker 1: or somebody makes a rude remark about me, and you know,

413
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: some form or other. You know, we're not on social

414
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,640
Speaker 1: media at all, and not on any social media, but

415
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: you know, if a rude remark comes my way, the

416
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Speaker 1: person who is most deeply disturbed, hurt, distressed, worried, anxious, humiliated, devastated.

417
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Speaker 3: I can imagine him stopping his feet in the kitchen

418
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Speaker 3: and saying, how can I say that what's their address.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to get a baseball bat and teach their

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Speaker 3: letter box a lesson.

421
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 1: You know, I just let it roll over you.

422
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Speaker 2: It's fine, it doesn't matter, it's okay, it's all right.

423
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 2: You know, it's nothing.

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Speaker 1: But he really takes it to heart because I'm being criticized.

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Speaker 2: He can't stand it anyway.

426
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Speaker 3: The title of your autobiography in the USA edition is

427
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: DM M Fox. I have read all your books, even

428
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Speaker 3: the pathetic ones, so clearly you're not immune from criticism.

429
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Speaker 3: This was a quote from a child's letter. I love.

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Speaker 3: I love the pluck of this kid, dem M Fox.

431
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Speaker 3: I've read all your books, even the pathetic ones.

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Speaker 1: Let's to give him some slack. I had been in

433
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Speaker 1: his school and I had made a joke against myself

434
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Speaker 1: because I had by then, I don't know, i'd written

435
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: twenty five books, and some of them were pathetic.

436
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Speaker 3: So it was your word. He was just giving your

437
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Speaker 3: word back to you.

438
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Speaker 2: I said, you know, some of my books are pathetic.

439
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 1: Kids, I said, you know, some of them are really fantastic,

440
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: and you know those, but I.

441
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 2: Hope you don't know the pathetic ones.

442
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: I said, I'd probably and pathetic one, so it was,

443
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: but I I love the letters so much. I just thought, no, no,

444
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 1: that has to be the chitle. It's fantastic. It is fantastic.

445
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 3: So you spend most of your time now, I mean

446
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: you worked in university, You went back to university train

447
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 3: did a whole lot of literacy learning how to teach

448
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: children how to read and write. If I'm a parent

449
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 3: and I want to give my children the best head start,

450
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 3: well not even a head start. I mean, we're in

451
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 3: too much of a rush, aren't we to teach our

452
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 3: children to read?

453
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 1: It?

454
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely?

455
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 3: What do you think is the right time for our

456
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 3: kids to start this other than the obvious answer, which

457
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 3: is when they start providing some level of interest. There

458
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 3: are schools in particularly in Western Australia and in Tasmania

459
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 3: where they're pushing that age of first reading and first

460
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,679
Speaker 3: writing down and down and down and down. What do

461
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: you think is around about the right age and what

462
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 3: advice do you give to parents when it comes to

463
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 3: helping their children fall in love with reading.

464
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: I think the right age defends from the child. I

465
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: don't think there's a blanket right age. It depends on

466
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: where the child is. Then it's interesting, it's love of

467
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: books and so on. I mean, if you have a

468
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: child of five who's never seen a book and who

469
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: has never had an adult conversation, that hasn't been an

470
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: order like you know, eat that food and tied to

471
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: your room or wear yourself and if they go to bed,

472
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: if they haven't had lots and lots of conversation, if

473
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: they haven't had a lot of awareness of how fantastic

474
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: books can be and how funny and how nice it

475
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: is to be with mum or Dad or grandma or

476
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: whoever reading a book. It's just that, you know, the

477
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: bonding that happens, then it's just so nice. If they

478
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: haven't had any of that experience and they come to

479
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: school and they're taught in a way that's quite you know,

480
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 1: fairly boring. That's not the way that you know, lots

481
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: of kids learn to read. When they learn to read mostadily, well,

482
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 1: of course they fail and then they fail again, and

483
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: then they fail again, and then they fail in life,

484
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 1: and it's just can't breaking, it's absolutely heartbreaking.

485
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 2: So I would say a kid is ready to learn

486
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: to read.

487
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: When they're ready to learn to read, I mean, you know,

488
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 1: there was a genius child a couple of doors away

489
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 1: from where I lived, who was reading at three and

490
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: she could read at three. Well, I mean that's incredibly unusual,

491
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: incredibly unusual.

492
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: But she wasn't pushed.

493
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 1: It just happens. She was ready to absolutely endlessly. And

494
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: when I wrote Reading Magic, long after my own daughter,

495
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: of course I'd learned to read just you know, by chance.

496
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, this child, this grandchild, had been

497
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 1: very very premature, very premature, thirty weeks and I thought,

498
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 1: this learning to love books and learning to read almost

499
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: by accident, and it just sort of clicks with school starting.

500
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: That's not going to work with him because his brain's

501
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: going to be so affected by his early birth. And

502
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,440
Speaker 1: it was the same, it was the same within as

503
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 1: it was the normal child that was in my life.

504
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: It was exactly the same, you know, to read. Whenyone's

505
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: able to learn to read, which was in around four

506
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: and a half five six, Suddenly we couldn't even work

507
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: out how it happened.

508
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: I mean, it just was there.

509
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 3: So if I was to summarize, and I think what

510
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 3: you're saying is fairly well aligned with the kinds of

511
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,239
Speaker 3: things that I say to parents as well. There's all

512
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 3: sorts of systems out there for teaching children to read

513
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: and getting them ahead and getting them started early. And

514
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 3: then of course we've got other countries that start, you know,

515
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 3: at about six or seven, like the Swedish and Finish countries.

516
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: But it seems that you and I share a lot

517
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: of agreement here that if a child is indicating a

518
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: real interest in being a part of a book, being

519
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 3: part of a story, understanding what those symbols are on

520
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 3: the page, that's the time when we start to engage

521
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 3: with them. But let them read almost not that read

522
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 3: is a quote unquote natural thing, but because it's something

523
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 3: that we've created, but it is something that they can

524
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: naturally fall into at the right age.

525
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 1: For them, exactly at the right age for them.

526
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 3: So how do you teach a child to love reading?

527
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: The what's the advice you give to parents so that

528
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 3: their children will love reading? Because reading and a love

529
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 3: of reading is linked with so many positive outcomes in life.

530
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: Right, we learn about absolutely absolutely the first five years

531
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 2: of life.

532
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's the first five years of literacy teaching,

533
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: and I'm talking the day after kids are born.

534
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: I do give people a day off. I think that's

535
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 2: fair enough. On the mother very good. And that's why

536
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 2: I say, what the dad is around.

537
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: Around, it's pretty tough if he's already got five children.

538
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: But you know, there you go. So you know, from

539
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: because people say, oh, I've got a son and he

540
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: doesn't like books, you know, because they say it's because

541
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: he's a boy. And I say, but if you start

542
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: when the child is born, and the child associates being

543
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: with you and the love and the smell of you,

544
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: and the seal of you, and the sound of you,

545
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: and the spite of you and the safety of you,

546
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: if they're associating all of that with books, then there's

547
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: the book and the adult almost become the one happiness.

548
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 1: It's just exquisite, you know. They just and they love

549
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: books because they love you, and they love you because

550
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: they love books, and you love them because they love

551
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: books that you'll read. And it's just just the purest heaven.

552
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: It's the purest seven. I mean, my grandson lives two

553
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: streets away from us.

554
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: And we see a lot of.

555
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: The every day or every single day we see him,

556
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: and last night I have not seen him a lot

557
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: for two days, and he facetimed. I mean, this is like,

558
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 1: you know, two streets away and he FaceTime and he said, no, no,

559
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: I haven't really seen you properly for two days. I'm

560
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: really seeing you. I said, I know. I said I

561
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: didn't like it.

562
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: I said, I missed you a lot.

563
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: And he said, well, will you? Can you come over?

564
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: But this is like ten pass day at night and

565
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: I said.

566
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: All right, I said, just Monday night and Monday nights, you.

567
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: Know, decent television. But there you go. I'll come, I said,

568
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: I'll come.

569
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: I said, how about I bring Peter Pan with me? Oh, Nellie,

570
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: that would be excellent. Now, this kid is an avid

571
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: reader of nonfiction.

572
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: Abbot.

573
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: You'll read adult bird books. He'll read adult books about

574
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:34,920
Speaker 1: the filming of Star Wars.

575
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 2: You'll read, you know, but.

576
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: Fantastically complicated books about dinosaurs that have written for university students.

577
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: He'll read all of that.

578
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: But he won't read.

579
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: He's not a novel reader, which is his choice. That's fine.

580
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: But he loves hearing novels. He loves it. And because

581
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: our daughter was so good at reading, when I gave

582
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: her Peter Pan at seven, she read it herself. So

583
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: I haven't read Peter Pan since I was a child,

584
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: you know, which is like seventy years ago since I've

585
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: been a new reader, and I was there last night,

586
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: and it is actually beyond description that the feeling between

587
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: that child and me last night when I was reading

588
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: that books in Peter Pan was a vehicle of our love.

589
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: It was overpowering, It was overwhelmingly divine. When I came

590
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: back and told my husband, you know, I said I

591
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: didn't want to go, and I was sort of a

592
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: bit tired and sort of flash and you come back

593
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: just soaring because you because the love.

594
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: That surrounds this action of reading to a child.

595
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: Even at ten, I'm sitting here just grinning into the

596
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 3: microphone listening do you tell that story. My smile is

597
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 3: as big as it gets because because I can relate

598
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 3: so much to that. There's a handful of favorites that

599
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: we've got in our home, and one of them is

600
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: The Princess Bride by William Goldman, and you're probably familiar

601
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 3: with the film that was based on novel. And I

602
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 3: just love reading a story. You know, it's a big story,

603
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: but I love reading that to my six and seven

604
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: and eight year olds and hearing the emotion is one

605
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: bad thing after another happens to the character and as

606
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 3: one challenge has overcome, only for a worse one to

607
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: arise and to hear the children go no. But also

608
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,239
Speaker 3: just that delight of laying on the bed with them

609
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: in your arms, and you know, there's something like Sam McBratney,

610
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 3: guess how much I love you? And you lay there

611
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: and you talk about little nut brown hair and I

612
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: love you to the moon and back, and you kind

613
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: of just sob with your kids while you're reading these books.

614
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: And because like I remember one time that one of

615
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 3: my favorite books is a little book called Fanny's Dream.

616
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've heard of it or not.

617
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: Fanny's Dream is about a lady I can't remember her name.

618
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 3: She's a teenager, and there's a ball happening at the

619
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 3: mayor's house and she's outside waiting for the fairy godmother

620
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: to show up, but she never shows up. In Instead,

621
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: Heber walks up and says, Fanny, I'm looking for a wife,

622
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: and she says, okay, let's do it. And so they

623
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: get married and they raise the family and it's a

624
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: little bit about their trials, and the house burns down

625
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: and one of the twins does this and that, and

626
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 3: then being married for I don't know, maybe eight or

627
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 3: ten years. Fanny's outside on the farm picking some vegetables

628
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 3: last minute before dinner, and the fairy of Godmother shows

629
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: up and says, sorry, I'm late, and Fanny's got to

630
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 3: make this decision where she has to say to the

631
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 3: fairy Godmother, I don't want the dream anymore. I'm actually

632
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 3: living it. I'm living I'm living something better than I

633
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 3: could have had. And it just I'm laying there in

634
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: the bed and I'm reading my kids and I've got

635
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 3: tears pouring out of my eyes and it's just so

636
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: beautiful and meaningful. And my child, I think at the

637
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 3: time she was probably five years old, she looks at

638
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 3: me and she says, Daddy, why are you crying? I

639
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 3: completely missed all the meaning of the book, completely missed

640
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 3: the emotion, completely missed the connection of everything. Just how

641
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 3: were you crying? But isn't it There's just something magical

642
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: about those moments where we're.

643
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: Completely just gorgeous, you know, in a classroom, when kids

644
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: are calling up the walls in a classroom and something's happened,

645
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: say in the playground, or they've got into trouble before

646
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: rest and they've come back after re set and there's

647
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: a disturbance. It's just not right. Things aren't feeling right

648
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: in the classroom. When the adult in the room, whoever

649
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: it is, starts reading something soothing and warm and rhythmic

650
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: and familiar, the whole the balloon just all the air

651
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: just comes out of the balloon, and there's serenity and

652
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: solace and peace and regeneration and forgiveness. It's just it

653
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: works in the classroom as well as working in their homes.

654
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I hope everybody who's listened to this

655
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: conversation is recommitted to reading their children this afternoon, or tonight,

656
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: or the very next opportunity. If I was to sum

657
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 3: up the tips that I normally give people when it

658
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 3: comes to reading, I'd love you to fill in any blanks,

659
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: because you've studied this, probably much deeper than me. But

660
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: just because we're so short on time now, I'm going

661
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 3: to go through a quick list of a handful of

662
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: things that I think are important. You tell me what

663
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: I've missed, or make any any elaborations that you think

664
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 3: should be their. Number One, I recommend that we read

665
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: to our children, and that we read much more slowly

666
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 3: than we want to, and the reason for that is

667
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: our children can't keep up. Sometimes they miss the nuance.

668
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: It's just important to read slowly to them, don't try

669
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 3: to get through it, and don't do what my parents

670
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: used to do and skip a couple of pages to

671
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 3: get to the end faster because you're tired and you're

672
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 3: going to fall asleep on their bed. The second thing

673
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: that I would say is, to the extent possible, read on,

674
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 3: have them on your lap or have them as close

675
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: to you so that there's a physical connection. And then

676
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: the other thing that I would say is make sure

677
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: that they're involved in some way, they've got some sense

678
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: of autonomy in terms of what we're reading beyond that,

679
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: and get them to.

680
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: I just want to stop you there. That's very important

681
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: about the autonomy, because sometimes the book the childlikes is

682
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: not something that the parent likes.

683
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:18,399
Speaker 2: But if the child wants it.

684
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: Over and over and over and over again, it wants

685
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: it for a reason, and we just have to swallow

686
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: out its like of that book or out you know,

687
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: you just think I can't read this book again. You

688
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: have to squash that down and just give the child

689
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: the book again and again and again and again, because

690
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: the familiarity with the book, the familiarity with the language,

691
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: is what's going to help the child.

692
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 2: Read the book.

693
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, Nick, can you actually expand on that a

694
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: little bit more as well and tell me why is

695
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,480
Speaker 3: it that children want to hear the same story again

696
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: and again and again. I mean it drives parents crazy, I.

697
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 1: Think because children love to be safe. And if they

698
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: hear the same thing over and over and it never changes,

699
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: it never changes. It's safe. You hear the same thing.

700
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,479
Speaker 1: The beginning is the same, the middle is the same,

701
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: the ending is the same. It's the same. I am

702
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: say this has stayed the same. I am in a

703
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: safe space. It must be a deep psychological thing.

704
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 2: I don't understand it.

705
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: What I don't understand is where is the green Sheep?

706
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: Which is the biggest seller now really than pass the magic,

707
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: it's in much you know, it's taken to people's part

708
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: even more in a different way. But you know the

709
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: last line, you know, you go through the whole book,

710
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: where is the green sheek? You know, where is the

711
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: green sheep? Where is the green sheep? Where is the

712
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 1: green sheet? And you get to the end and it says,

713
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: here's our green Sheep past this week. Kids know after

714
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: the first reading where the Green Sheep is, but they

715
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: still want the book over and over and over again,

716
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: and they still get sort of agitated with excitement as

717
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: the pages turn and they know they're going to get

718
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: to the end where they find the green Sheet. And

719
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: I think it's just predictability that their prediction ring true

720
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 1: and they're safe.

721
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, my kids love whereas the Green Sheep as well.

722
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 3: We've read that until it's a threadbare. The last point

723
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: that I was going to make, and I'm sure that

724
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: there are many others that you could add, is that

725
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 3: our children need to see us reading. They need to

726
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: see us loving being immersed in our books as well.

727
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: You know. It's I mean, I don't know how you

728
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: do it with six kids. I do not know how

729
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: you find time to see your kids, just see your

730
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: kids to see you reading. I don't know how you

731
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: do it. I know that once when I was reading

732
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: The Color Purple by Alice Walker, I think our daughter

733
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: was thirteen, and I didn't make lunch. It was a Saturday.

734
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 1: I didn't have anything to do with lunch, and dinner

735
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: was late. The big I look, I'm just sorry. I'm

736
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: just sorry I cannot. I just sorry, sorry, but I.

737
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 2: Just no, I've just I've just got to read a chapter.

738
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: I don't know whether it was the color purple, but

739
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: now she definitely knew that I like you.

740
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: It's true.

741
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: I think I was being to read, and I certainly

742
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: saw my parents reading. I certainly saw them reading. But

743
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: it's a tough. It's a tough thing to ask these

744
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: days that parents will seemed to be reading.

745
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, put those those phones down.

746
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: I think it's really tough.

747
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: Stop watching merrit at first sight. Pick up a book instead.

748
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 3: And now I wish everybody could see your face right now,

749
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 3: I'm just going to describe members looked at me with

750
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: such disdain when I mentioned, all right, member, we are

751
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: I mean, this has just been I wish we could

752
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 3: talk for two or three hours. There's so much more

753
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: I want to ask you. There's so much more that

754
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: we could talk about, but our time is really really

755
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 3: at an end. So to finish every podcast in this

756
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 3: parenting perspective, I ask five quick questions. Now everyone gets

757
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,959
Speaker 3: the same ones. They're supposed to be relatively rapid fire,

758
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 3: so we don't need to go too deep. And what

759
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 3: I'm probably going to ask you about is I'm going

760
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 3: to ask you about your daughter, but in some cases,

761
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 3: because she's now a mature woman of you know, well,

762
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: let's just say she's more than forty or forty, and

763
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: she's got her own child and all that kind of thing.

764
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: You may wish to substitute your grandson into some of

765
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: these questions if you wish, but I will ask in

766
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 3: relation to your daughter. Okay, So if we ask your

767
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,040
Speaker 3: daughter her favorite thing to do with you, what would

768
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: she say?

769
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: She would say, sitting on a couch, on the same

770
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: couch as me, hanging out, just having time to be together,

771
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 1: just hanging out.

772
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: That is our favorite thing to do.

773
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the way it's supposed to be. By the

774
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: time they've moved out of home, fingers crossed, what's been

775
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: your trickiest parenting moment?

776
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: Probably letting her go, the leaving home thing, do you know,

777
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: because she was so excited about leaving home.

778
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: She was so excited about leaving us. She and I

779
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: looking back after it happened to us, I looked back

780
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 2: on my own leading of home.

781
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: I had no concept of the grief that that caused

782
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: my parents, none whatsoever. I was literally flying out out

783
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 1: of Africa, you know, off to London.

784
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 2: It was amazing.

785
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: I was so excited and what they must have gone for,

786
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: you must have been held and letting her go was

787
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: without saying we're going to miss you, it's going to

788
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 1: be terrible, we're going to set a place at the

789
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: table by accident. We couldn't say any of that because

790
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: we knew how excited she was. We couldn't say we

791
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: are going to be heartbroken. You are our only child

792
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: and you're going to another country. How could you do this?

793
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I can really relate my oldest daughter

794
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 3: recently married. And I love the way that you use

795
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: the word grief, because as thrilled as we are, we're

796
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 3: so excited for the exciting adventure that she's on in

797
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: her Life's been married for a year and a half now,

798
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: But at that time, there was that letting go was

799
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: a genuine grieving process.

800
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: It was.

801
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: It was an obstacle and a challenge for us to

802
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 3: overcome as a couple and as individuals in a way

803
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: that we could never have anticipated.

804
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: My husband and I went to a hotel after we'd

805
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: seen her office. We plewed to Melbourne together. We saw

806
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: her off on the International slide, and we cried all

807
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: the way to the hotel in the taxi. And when

808
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: we got to the hotel and checked in, my husband,

809
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: who has you know obviously you know, been weeping and

810
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: I had been weeping, and he said, we've had a

811
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: family tragedy.

812
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 3: You know, the poor people around you. Yeah, terrible, Go maam.

813
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 3: If you could spend an hour with your daughter at

814
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: any age at all, let's say tomorrow afternoon she walks

815
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: into the living room at that age, what age would

816
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 3: you pick? And why?

817
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: Look, I'd pick now. I mean, I'd pick now. The

818
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: older she is, the you know, the more of a

819
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 1: parent that she becomes, she's just loved. I would just

820
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: like her as she is, as she is. I would

821
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: not like her at seventeen. Now.

822
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 3: I don't know too many parents that would ask for

823
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 3: a seventeen year old again, no matter how good life

824
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 3: has been them and how glad you are to be

825
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 3: in the moment, what are you most looking forward to

826
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,280
Speaker 3: is either as a mum or as a grandma.

827
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: I'm hope.

828
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: I'm seventy four, and I've got a very bad asthma,

829
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: a very bad athmetics. So I'm very, very frightened of

830
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 1: the coronavirus right, terrified of it. But my great hope

831
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: is that I live long enough to see what my

832
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: grandson wants to do in life. You know, there are

833
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 1: so many choices that kids have now, you know whatever,

834
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: I just want to know which way he goes. It's

835
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: because it's fascinating to see what the choices are. Maybe

836
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: my daughter was a politician for eight years, she was

837
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: a journalist for seven years. He's been a teacher on

838
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 1: and after, she's a teacher again. It's just fascinating to

839
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: watch people of development and their interests, and you know,

840
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,919
Speaker 1: I just want to be there.

841
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 2: I just want to live long enough for that beautiful

842
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 2: and I hope, I hope, I will. I hope I will.

843
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 3: My last question for you, mem is this, if you

844
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: could go back to Memphox as a young mum, probably

845
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 3: having one of those tough moments with maybe that seventeen

846
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 3: year old, maybe with a two year old, and you're

847
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 3: going to such little experience as a parent, what advice

848
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: would you give yourself?

849
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: Oh, look, let it rip, seriously, your block, just lose it,

850
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: get over it, but lose it. You know, there are

851
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: two experiences in my life with my daughter that neither

852
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: has ever forgotten, and we quite often bring it up

853
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: in a sort of joking way. I've opened to joking

854
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: where she had a mug with Chloe written on it. Okay,

855
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: and it was a precious mug that had been made

856
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: specifically for her, and in a fit of absolute rage

857
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 1: about something I've got no idea what it was, I

858
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: saw it on the kitchen floor and it smashed. And

859
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: although that was terrible, it was absolutely tragic and it

860
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: was completely wrong with me.

861
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it was right at all.

862
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: You know, the explosion of rage was it was over

863
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: and I was devastated, and you know that we made

864
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: it up. But you can't hold it in all the time.

865
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: You've got to be real. You have to be in

866
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: a marriage. You've got to be real.

867
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: You've got to say and you feel otherwise it you know,

868
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: it makes you ro inside. You just have to have

869
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: these well raazing, you know, rouse and then but then

870
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: get over it. The forgiveness has got to be fast,

871
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, the getting back to normal has got to

872
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: be fast. You can't resentful, you can't hold on to

873
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: things that make you mad. You've got to let go

874
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: of them. And the other time, was, and I can't

875
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: remember what it was. She must have been a teenager,

876
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 1: but certainly, and I'm so mortified to tell you this

877
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 1: because it all sound as defining the most awful mother

878
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: in the world, but I did kick a hole in

879
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: her bedroom door. I think the door had probably been

880
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: closed against me in a way that was you know.

881
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 3: You were trying to kick her, weren't you, Mem You

882
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 3: were trying to kick her, and she put the door

883
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 3: in the way, and you put a hole in the door.

884
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: The door should not have been closed in the manner

885
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: in which it had been closed, you know, And that

886
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: was enraging.

887
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 3: But we learned from these challenges, ma'am. And I love

888
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: the fact that you're not perfect, and you're.

889
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: Okay with that perfect old.

890
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 3: Well. I've never had anybody give advice that we should

891
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 3: let it rip. But we've laugh I've enjoyed your laughter,

892
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 3: I've enjoyed your insights, and the conversation has just been

893
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 3: so delightful. Thank you so very much, best selling author

894
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: mem Fox and mother of one and grandma of one.

895
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for being so generous with your time.

896
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 2: Thank you being lovely. Thank you.

897
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 3: I hope you've gotten some insight into mem Fox as

898
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 3: a result of this Pairenting in Perspective podcast, two things

899
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 3: that I really found amazing were that a very short

900
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 3: book can take up to two years to write, and

901
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: that the best selling and multi award winning mem Fox

902
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 3: thinks that when she first puts pender paper, it's mostly rubbish.

903
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 3: That's reassuring because I usually feel the same way about

904
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: what I write. Mind you, I haven't had nearly the

905
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 3: success that she's had. Anyway, join me, Doctor Justin Coulson

906
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: next time, as I talk with somebody that I've been

907
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 3: dying to talk to for so long, Professor Sarah Coyne,

908
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 3: who discovered just what playing with barbies and watching Marvel

909
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 3: movies does to our children. We're going to talk about

910
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 3: the impact of the media on children and families.

911
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: We're just having the wrong conversations in society right now.

912
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 4: So instead of just saying, you know, screams are bad,

913
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 4: decrease screen time and things will get better, they actually won't.

914
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 4: We have to empower and educate our youth on how

915
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 4: to use their screens in healthier ways.

916
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 3: That is Professor Sarah Coyne, my next guest on the

917
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: Parenting in Perspective podcast, and just before we wrap this up,

918
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 3: thank you so much to everyone who has jumped into

919
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts and left a review and sort of said, hey,

920
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 3: we listened to the podcast and we really love it.

921
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 3: I wanted to just quickly point out this one that

922
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: came through from Larissa Jade, who said bite Sized Parenting Gems.

923
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 3: I'm giving this one five stars. Larissa Jade said, Doctor

924
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 3: Justin gives great advice, simple, easy to implement, and very effective.

925
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 3: I never regret the time I spend listening to this podcast,

926
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 3: so very much appreciate that. If you're enjoying this podcast,

927
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: please keep those reviews coming. Jump onto Apple Podcasts and

928
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 3: let everybody know you think it helps get the word

929
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 3: out and they're so important for helping people to discover

930
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: the podcast and find out more about how to make

931
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 3: their families flourish. Also, please just tell your friends about

932
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 3: the podcast. You can actually share them from the app

933
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 3: in which you listen, and I'm sure that there are

934
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 3: plenty of people who would love to hear a podcast

935
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 3: like the one that we've shared today. If you'd like

936
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 3: more info on how I can help your family flourish,

937
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 3: particularly if you'd like to have ongoing monthly support via

938
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 3: our amazing Happy Families memberships. Please visit happyfamilies dot com

939
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:32,959
Speaker 3: dot you the family, your part of it is getting

940
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 3: bigger and happier every day, or visit my Facebook page

941
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 3: doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families and I was always a

942
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 3: big thank you to Justin Roylan for his work in

943
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 3: producing the podcast and making it sound just fabulous, and

944
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 3: thank you for listening to parenting in perspective. It's a

945
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast.