1
00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,120
Speaker 1: And Amanda jam Nation next guest, apart from being one

2
00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,480
Speaker 1: of our favorite people, is one of the most respected

3
00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,920
Speaker 1: journalists in Australia, having spent a large part of her

4
00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 1: life grilling the most powerful and influential people. Well, now

5
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:17,040
Speaker 1: she's sharing an insight into her craft and that of

6
00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,640
Speaker 1: other media professionals in a book she's written called Storytellers

7
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,920
Speaker 1: to tell Us More, Lee sales Halla.

8
00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 2: I'm here in person.

9
00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:28,200
Speaker 3: I love that legends and also, you know, because you're

10
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 3: ABC Royalty. Now I feel like I've got a bit

11
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:31,960
Speaker 3: more credibility here.

12
00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,840
Speaker 2: Look, I thought you might have willed in a throne

13
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,560
Speaker 2: or something for me for that reason.

14
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 4: But I've come in and there's nothing. It's pretty got, nothing,

15
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 4: pretty red.

16
00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,519
Speaker 2: There were some tea bags and some vital weat on

17
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,120
Speaker 2: the counter. That was the full extent.

18
00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 4: We're living the high life. The timing of this book

19
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,279
Speaker 4: is very interesting. Is it because the quality of journalism

20
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:52,200
Speaker 4: is disappearing?

21
00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 2: Lucas Party? Just because I had some spare time on

22
00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,680
Speaker 2: birth No, Mother's Day's coming up. To be honest, when

23
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 2: we're all in lockdown in twenty twenty one, I had

24
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 2: for ages. I'd felt like I personally love reading things

25
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 2: about the craft of how people do things, whether they're

26
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 2: tablemakers or musicians or whatever. I love that kind of stuff,

27
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,360
Speaker 2: and I've been thinking for ages because members of the

28
00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 2: public always ask me about behind the scenes of media

29
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,320
Speaker 2: and people are very interested in it. I've been thinking

30
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 2: for ages be great to compile a heap of the

31
00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: stories of people who do media stuff for a living.

32
00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,479
Speaker 2: So that was part of it, and I had time

33
00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 2: finally to do that. But then I also think a

34
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: lot of what all of us do in our jobs,

35
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: which is basically just communicating and telling stories. We all

36
00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:38,399
Speaker 2: have to do that no matter what your job is,

37
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,080
Speaker 2: whether you someone who has to walk down the street

38
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,319
Speaker 2: and door knock, whether you're a lawyer talking to a jury,

39
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 2: and all of the skills that we use in terms

40
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 2: of telling an anecdote connecting with other people are things

41
00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,400
Speaker 2: that anyone could use in their everyday life, and so

42
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 2: that was another reason I wanted to write it, and

43
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,280
Speaker 2: just to pass on knowledge to a new generation of journeys.

44
00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,680
Speaker 4: We've spoken to some incredible people and a Bell Crab

45
00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:01,560
Speaker 4: I think you've met her before, Tracy Grimshaw, Mere Freedman,

46
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 4: people who have interesting spins on how they get the

47
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 4: best out of someone and what they've learned along the way.

48
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know Tracy Grimshaw. My mum actually read

49
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,680
Speaker 2: Tracy's interview with me and she said, oh, I thought

50
00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 2: Tracy would be like, really super confident and kind of ballsy,

51
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 2: but she said she was actually so gentle and thoughtful

52
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,800
Speaker 2: in her manner, and it really makes sense I think

53
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 2: when you watch how Tracy does her job. Tracy was

54
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 2: talking about she would often have to interview people who'd

55
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 2: found themselves in a terrible circumstance, like say the Beaconsfield miners,

56
00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 2: and she would always go in there and have a

57
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:35,360
Speaker 2: chat to them and say to them, you know, why

58
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,240
Speaker 2: do you want to do this interview? So she could

59
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 2: have a sense of trying to shepherd them through the experience,

60
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,079
Speaker 2: so they'd come out the other side feeling like whatever

61
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: reason they'd wanted to do it, you know, to make

62
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,480
Speaker 2: a difference, to stop it happening to somebody else, so

63
00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 2: their mom might be remembered as more than the first

64
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 2: person who died of COVID, that she would be able

65
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,079
Speaker 2: to help them do that. She had this very thoughtful

66
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 2: approach to her job.

67
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,520
Speaker 4: What about the hard stories you have to cover? I

68
00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,880
Speaker 4: love the things that Jannita Phillips said in her piece,

69
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,320
Speaker 4: and she was announcing that she was stepping down, and

70
00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 4: she said she's just finding it harder to find a

71
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 4: place for some of those hard stories she covers. How

72
00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,680
Speaker 4: have you felt having to talk to people who are

73
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 4: sometimes having the worst moment.

74
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,720
Speaker 2: Of their life. I've become able to frame that in

75
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,880
Speaker 2: my head that I feel like I think I can

76
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 2: help them, because, as I said, in terms of what

77
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 2: Tracy said, she said that people are always wanting to

78
00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 2: talk if they're talking for a reason usually, and so

79
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,960
Speaker 2: if the person tells me that reason, I can make

80
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 2: sure I ask questions so at the end they feel like,

81
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 2: oh good, I got everyone to understand who mum really

82
00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 2: was or whatever.

83
00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: Is their goal.

84
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,160
Speaker 2: And also, I think because I've been a news reporter

85
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 2: for a long time, I've gotten to see that what

86
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,320
Speaker 2: you see on the news isn't the full thing of

87
00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 2: people's lives. It's like a frozen moment of the worst

88
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 2: day of their life. But if you go and speak

89
00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 2: them ten years later or twenty years later, it's actually

90
00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 2: much more hopeful. People actually adapt extraordinarily to what life

91
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,040
Speaker 2: throws at them. And so when I'm talking to people

92
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 2: who are, you know, in the worst of things. I

93
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,520
Speaker 2: kind of think to myself, they don't know it yet,

94
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,080
Speaker 2: but actually they will. Things will get better for them,

95
00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 2: and that comforts me. Also as an interviewer, you know

96
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 2: that things will get better. The other one thing I

97
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,080
Speaker 2: just wanted to say to your audience, because people at

98
00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,599
Speaker 2: the moment, a lot of people are switching off the

99
00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 2: news because it makes them anxious, makes it depressed, makes

100
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,560
Speaker 2: them feel bad. Just to always remind yourself what you

101
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,039
Speaker 2: see on the news, that's the least likely thing to

102
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,320
Speaker 2: happen to you, not the most likely thing. So if

103
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 2: you see a horrible accident where some kids have been killed,

104
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:32,800
Speaker 2: or if you see like say that Dream World roller

105
00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 2: coaster thing, the reason they're on the news is because

106
00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 2: they're unusual, because that's what the news focuses on. Sure,

107
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,960
Speaker 2: and it makes people anxious because you feel like, oh God,

108
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 2: i'd hate if that happened to me and my kids.

109
00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,520
Speaker 2: It's not going to happen to me.

110
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,520
Speaker 3: And it's a lot to take in now with the

111
00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,360
Speaker 3: news scrolling on your phone, we're not meant to have

112
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 3: so much news. That's we're getting too much.

113
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,240
Speaker 2: That's right, and it does make you anxious. I think

114
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 2: for me being immersed in the news for thirty years,

115
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 2: it's made me anxious about things I don't necessarily need

116
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 2: to be. Thank you just about see.

117
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,320
Speaker 3: What Amanda does during the show. She just looks at Puppystagram.

118
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 4: That's right.

119
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,920
Speaker 2: Makes me happy exactly, and that is good mental health.

120
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you, Lee, I appreciate it.

121
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 3: And Sam and Sam Hewan and a kilt ye.

122
00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,039
Speaker 4: Sam Hewan from Outlander. That makes me happy as well.

123
00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 2: Mate. She texts me on the weekend shots of that

124
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,239
Speaker 2: she'll be sitting on the couch for like ten hours

125
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 2: in a stretch.

126
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 4: Because we had a conversation about that, I had to

127
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 4: my drawl sponge under my chin.

128
00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 2: A conversation Jones. It was one of my broadcast of

129
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 2: Amanda sending.

130
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 3: After five seeing pictures of Samhwan kilt Lee, It's great

131
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,240
Speaker 3: to talk to you. Storytellers is available now from all

132
00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 3: Good bookstores. Lee Sales, Thank you, Thank you,